it is so funny that people who pretend to not even support trump are screaming "CRIMES!? that's what they're indicting presidents for now? acts that are obviously illegal committed by a hamfisted corruption engine?"
— Sen. Lemon Gogurt (I – Podcastia) (@Ugarles) March 31, 2023
"he's getting Al Caponed" people always forget that the reason they got Al Capone on tax fraud is because of crimes. He wasn't just randomly bad at taxes. His taxes were fraudulent because his money came from crimes.
— Alex's stochastic tweets (@goodtweetsalex) March 30, 2023
Important point. And keep in mind, without what’s alleged in this indictment the other things wouldn’t have happened, bc he wouldn’t have been elected President. https://t.co/0RjbVMfZ5y
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 31, 2023
We’ll learn a lot about what Trump did to get elected, a lot about what Trump did to try to steal the 2020 election, to try to overthrow Congress, & to steal documents with important national secrets
But we’ll probably never learn much about what Trump & Putin did for each other
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 31, 2023
Really feels like they should have had a plan for how to cover this? https://t.co/Zj0I0FJLYv
— your himbo boyfriend (@swolecialism) March 31, 2023
It’s not a sad day at Fox. They’re probably ecstatic.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 31, 2023
A little 60s novelty nostalgia…
They all want Trump to go to jail. They know he did it and they just want him to shut up, but they have to pretend to be offended to placate his base. https://t.co/jYPNLvyxHQ
— Jean-Michel Connard (@torriangray) March 30, 2023
The reason Republicans assume that Bragg has no agency and is just acting at the behest of a giant Democratic conspiracy is because that’s exactly how *they* operate. https://t.co/RssQUBvyCm
— Panda Bernstein (@J4Years) March 31, 2023
Also funny bc indicting Trump is focusing on crime in Manhattan. https://t.co/zoL7SmhT5n
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 31, 2023
Jonathan Turley rose to prominence as a “liberal” who thought Bill Clinton should be impeached and convicted for getting a blowjob https://t.co/HeDq34yNf3
— Centrist ??Madness (@CentristMadness) March 31, 2023
Trump runs in 2016, no Repubs go hard at him bc they wanted someone else to do it; a collective action problem resulted in him winning the nomination
Trump indicted in 2023, no Repubs are criticizing him, a collective action problem, because
Every
Republican
Is
A
Coward— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 31, 2023
the GOP base is constantly having to square this circle. one of the reasons QAnon immediately clicked for so many of them is that it explains why top Democrats, who they've been hearing insane conspiracies about for 30 years, are never charged: it's actually happening in secret!
— Law Boy, Esq. (@The_Law_Boy) March 31, 2023
PATRIOTS ARE IN CONTROL https://t.co/7iEHj2q7Mn
— opening day appreciation account (@Convolutedname) March 31, 2023
OzarkHillbilly
As long as emailgatelapalooza was happening, I suspect he would have anyway.
Baud
Turley is unctuous.
Yeah, that packs about as much punch as “even MAGA republicans have reservations.”
Steeplejack
Trivia Man
Is there a mashup of everyone chanting Lock Her Up? I’d like to see those clips played when these “serious concerns about using criminal charges politically” get trotted out on the talking head shows.
A well placed “This U?” Might make some of them visibly squirm.
Kay
“He’s getting Al Caponed” is a defense of Trump? God Lord, but standards have dropped.
Betty Cracker
Excellent quote from a tweet above about comparisons to Al Capone: “He wasn’t just randomly bad at taxes.” Yep. Paying off Stormy was subversion of democracy; Trump wasn’t just randomly bad at conveying hush money to adult film actors.
@Trivia Man: “I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Trump himself likes to whine about how they didn’t get Capone for a proper crime and this was some kind of injustice to Al Capone. It’s really weird but his motivation is obvious.
The whole point of getting people for “process crimes” is those are the things you do to make it hard or impossible to get you for your real crimes. Not prosecuting people for those because they’re chickenshit and not the real crime means they just get away with crime. What they want is just a class of powerful guys who are above the law.
Baud
I would be willing to let Trump off of the hush payment charge if he would cop to the sedition charges.
Trivia Man
Also, too, if he has multiple trials in the hopper then it’s harder to decide how to allocate his legal resources. Even on a roster of incompetent buffoons some will be slightly more capable. Which case do they get? Choose wisely!
kalakal
DeStupid has already leapt in with the posturing.
He wants Trump removed from the GOP primaries and has probably spent the night cackling with glee under his rock.
Publicly he’s outraged, vowing that Florida will not assist in Trump’s extradition, talking tough for the base*. It’s all bullshit, Trump has already said he’ll willingly go to NY so there’s nothing for Florida to do.
What would screw DeStupid would be if Trump suddenly decided to buff up his martyrdom credentials and to want to be seen being dragged out of Mar-a-Lardo as the “most persecuted person ever!”
At that point Honest Ron would be on the hook, he can’t legally prevent TFG’s extradition, sure as hell isn’t going to be charged with obstruction for him, and will look like a wimp to the rubes.
Of course he also had to throw in an anti-semitic dog whistle in his empty posturing because he’s a vile little creep
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
The “process” crimes distinction is nonsense, IMO. It’s the same people who argue that a defendant was released “on a technicality” when the defendants rights were violated. These words don’t mean anything.
Also- the idea that campaign finance crimes are not crimes is a far Right notion put forth by “free speech absolutists” who believe that there ARE no legit “campaign finance crimes” because it’s all “speech” and there are no legit campaign finance regulations. We’ve been over this with Citizens United. Did everyone forget already? Now all of media have adopted the furthest Right position on campaign finance where it shouldn’t be regulated?
It’s how they’ll get Santos. On campaign finance. Will this same “no harm, no foul!” crackpot legal theory apply there too?
These are crimes. If Trump committed them, he can and should be charged.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
Manyakitty
@OzarkHillbilly: sad but true.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Manyakitty
@rikyrah: a bright and cheery good morning to you!
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I’d be willing to posthumously drop all the charges if he’d commit ritual Seppuku on live TV.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
It’s not even that the GOP 2024 hopefuls are cowards. They’re short-sighted and selfish. Openly taking on Trump means losing the support of his cult, without which any modern GOP candidate is toast. That’s why everyone is voicing support for The Former Guy, why DeSantis is proclaiming that he’ll refuse to cooperate with extradition – they all want somebody else to throw himself on the grenade. Nobody is willing to challenge Trump directly and face the real possibility that he’ll then go on to a career-ending defeat against Biden and Harris (never mind that it could also result in the GOP getting sent to the wilderness for at least one and probably more election cycles).
It’s like an inverse of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. I can’t recall if that has a formal name in game theory.
Princess
De Santis, Youngkin etc are thrilled the courts are dealing with their Trump problem. They just want to pick up his voters.
kalakal
@Betty Cracker:
May be even more apt. Capone’s mental and physical state fell apart due to tertiary syphilis and Trump’s mental deterioration has often made me wonder if he’s going the same way
Butter Emails
I think my favorite defense was something similar to
It’s just so deliciously stupid and delusional on so many levels.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: You should have been a prosecutor.
Kay
56 to 41 is a landslide in electoral terms. Also- 80% GOP support is low, not high.
Donald Trump still isn’t popular- what one would expect from a President whose “movement” lost three elections in a row, really.
MAGA won one national Presidential election, 7 years ago. They’ve lost nationally ever since.
kalakal
@Matt McIrvin:
“Perjury trap” is prominent on my bingo card
Baud
@Kay:
It’s because 7 years ago, MAGA had a lot more non-MAGA allies.
lowtechcyclist
Was just thinking about that recently – the guy who came up with that died just a few weeks ago:
Jerry Samuels, the Northeast Philly artist behind the 1966 hit novelty song ‘They’re Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa!,’ has died at 84 (inquirer.com)
mrmoshpotato
Fuck no! And FUCK BLAGO!
And happy Friday to all jackals – ready for more DAY BASEBALL!
lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
Brilliant!
Kay
@Baud:
They were driving around the courthouse square last night honking horns. My husband wanted to walk down and watch but I have an invalid with a broken ankle I’m caring for so I used that as an excuse- what if he needs an ice tea while I’m gone? :)
Seriously, though, I don’t want to watch them. I’m sick to death of them and how angry they always are and how much noise they make.
OzarkHillbilly
@Butter Emails: “Why prosecute the bank robber? He’s already lost it all at the casino.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I would make the best plea deals, only the best.
Butter Emails
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
They’re all short-sighted, selfish, immoral cowards. If they weren’t, one of two things would be happening.
1. One of the one percent wonders running against him would take this opportunity to dial their attacks against him up to 11
2. The entire Republican apparatus would be carrying out a coordinated zerg rush on him.
eversor
Lock him up!
mrmoshpotato
I see Jonathan Turley is still an idiot.
Turgidson
@Trivia Man:
Eh, they won’t see the hypocrisy at all.
*Everyone knows* Hillary is a crook who killed Vince foster, ran a pedo ring out of the basement of a pizza place, blew up the Whitewater, did Benghazi, and helped Bill do all his crimes too. The fact that she was never charged with anything just shows how powerful the Derp State really is.
Dear Leader on the other hand is as pure as the fallen snow and if he “committed” “crimes”, it was only to protect us from the woke mob that burned Portland and Minneapolis right down to the ground and never got punished or that he was framed by said Derp State because he is a threat to them.
or some such arglebargle bullshit.
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
While this is generally true (and especially true of obstruction of justice – hi Scooter!), at least so far it doesn’t appear to be the case with the hush money to Stormy Daniels.
I guess we’ll find out when the specifics of the indictment are made public, but the underlying act – paying Stormy to STFU – isn’t illegal AFAICT. If Trump had paid her out of his own pocket (again AFIACT) there would have been no crime.
But he’s greedy, and he’s not nearly as rich as he likes to pretend he is. So he paid her out of campaign funds instead. And that’s a crime. And then he played games with the campaign books to cover it up, and that’s a crime too.
Kay
@mrmoshpotato:
Still a law professor too. Are there any tv law professors who are not slimy clowns at this point? Not great.
OzarkHillbilly
@mrmoshpotato: Idiocy is incurable.
Kay
@lowtechcyclist:
It’s all such low ball money, which I sort of love give how they’re all such swaggering NYC big shots. Any of these people would do anything for 100k. Anything.
Michael Cohen would have made more just as an ordinary lawyer. Giuliani is drowing in debt. He has no money after shilling off of 9/11 for 20 years. I don’teven know how you manage that.
It isn’t even lucrative being a non-family member of the Trump crime ring. They’re all broke and fighting over 10,000 dollars.
Geminid
@Butter Emails: This issue will damage Trump without his Republican opponents lifting a finger. Pounding him on it might gain credit among non-Republicans, but right now challengers are not concerned with voters outside the primary electorate. They’ll have better issues to use against Trump once they launch their public campaigns.
Turgidson
@Kay:
and they only “won” that election by -3million votes and needed help from Vlad’s tech goons and James Comey’s pompous, cowardly buffoonery and apparent ignorance of the existence of de-deplication programs used pretty much every hour of every single fucking day by law firms large and small in discovery to “win” that time.
brendancalling
When you tell lots of lies/
You can’t act that surprised/
At indictment
When you pay off your honey/
With illegal hush money
You’ve crimed.
Barbara
@Kay: The average law professor isn’t usually good at TV soundbite material.
2liberal
How to Make a Schadenfreude Pie
Butter Emails
@Geminid:
The amount of damage this will do to Trump will almost certainly be negligible with the base, particularly with every Republican shrieking witch hunt, political persecution,etc.
Amir Khalid
Some news from Malaysia: Najib Abdul Razak’s application to have the Federal Court review its decision in the first batch of 1MDB-related charges against him has failed. (He was convicted on all those charges, and last August the Federal Court upheld all the convictions.)
Cameron
@kalakal: Yes, last night, somewhere in the governor’s residence in Tallahassee, three pudding-covered fingers were raised in the air in a gesture of triumph……
zhena gogolia
The guy who did “They’re coming to take me away” recently died. Of dementia. RIP.
zhena gogolia
@lowtechcyclist: I knew somebody would have beat me to it!
PST
@lowtechcyclist:
I stand ready to be corrected when we see the indictment, but I don’t think that’s the charge. Some of his supporters pretend that’s the charge, then say it’s false. I believe the charge is that by paying off Ms. Daniels in order to secure the election, he was making an unreported, and therefore illegal, contribution to his own campaign. Worse, he falsified business records by disguising the payment as a legitimate business expense, legal fees on behalf of the Trump Organization.
gvg
@Kay: Oh. I thought the horn blowers were our side celebrating. I was regretting not having fireworks to set off.
Kay
@Turgidson:
2020 is the amazing loss. An incumbent (they almost never lose) and an incumbent who had an entire huge group of sleazy federal appointees who did nothing but work on his relect campaign for the two years prior to 2018. Even with that. MAGA lost.
They made the jammed-thru Coney Barrett coronation into a week long campaign event (which she enthusiastically starred in) – STILL lost.
2022? All of media announces no one cares about womens rights and Republicans will clear the board in a Red Wave! They broadcast this for months. Red Wave! Red Wave! Still, MAGA barely pulls out the House and loses at the state level all over the upper midwest. The midwest! That was supposed to be Trump Country!
They won one. I’ll give them that.
Bupalos
@lowtechcyclist: you can’t pay people to shut up and cover it up when you’re in a public campaign.
All of this is going to be confusing because we are so accoustomed to Trump lying that we won’t be able to process that there are some laws about how and when you can lie.
PST
@Kay:
Joyce Vance, Barbara McQuade, Larry Tribe. I’m sure there are more.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
I know, right? For a guy who even pretends to be a billionaire, $100K should be pocket money. Hell, I’d have no trouble laying my hands on $100K if push came to shove, and I’m just a GS-13, comfortable but far from rich.
Probably always been one of those guys who spends it as fast as it comes in, and then when the shilling* didn’t pay as well as it used to, he borrowed and then kept borrowing.
Also divorces, property settlements, and the need to impress the next wife.
*Gerund, not noun.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@Betty Cracker: According to the latest New Yorker, the first recorded use of “hush money” was by the great 18th-century essayist Richard Steele (sic).
Oh frabjous day, calloo, etc.!
“St. Bees Saga,” Canto V
There was an old man of St. Bees
Who ran himself ragged on sprees.
He’d recount his adventures
While clacking his dentures,
Then fade in mid-sentence to “Zzz’s.”
Kay
@gvg:
Not here. It’s the horrible, perpetually angry pickup truck drivers. They have completely changed how I view pick up trucks. I always thought of those trucks as benign, even helpful, work vehicles. I drove a little one for a couple of years when I worked for a greenhouse. Now I’m like “ok, he comes another insanely angry man up behind me, speeding and tailgating”.
During the 2020 campaign they basically shut down a state route with a “Trump caravan” where they roll at 25 MPH in a 55. I have an acquaintance who called the police-he wanted to know why these people were allowed to shut down a public road for two hours. It took an hour for a sheriff’s deputy to meander out and tell them to speed up.
LadySuzy
@mrmoshpotato: Not an idiot. A shameful partisan and hypocrite. If it was an ex-democrat president, he would have the exact opposite opinion.
LadySuzy
Dorothy A. Winsor
I am still on a ship off the coast of Chile, but I had to drop by BJ to enjoy the moment. I guess the charges weren’t “dropped” after all. :-)
Yesterday, we docked in a place called Iqueque and took a tour to an abandoned saltpeter mining town and to look at some geogclyphs. I think that’s what they’re called–big art etched into the hillsides. The mining town was depressing. It’s in the middle of a desert that looks like a lunar landscape. Not even cactus grow. Workers were paid in scrip, so it was impossible to save money and get out of there. It was a company town. Pictures of the owners’ — all English — were hung on the wall like they were heroes rather than thieves.
lowtechcyclist
@PST:
No, you’re right, my memory was bad on this one. But are they charging him with the campaign contribution, or just the cooking the books? I thought it was the latter, but I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Kay
@PST:
Thanks. I like Barbara McQuade.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Trump isn’t popular but neither is Joe Biden, so Trump still very much has a shot at being elected President even if he’s being tried for felonies. It’ll be harder if he’s actually in a jail cell but I kind of doubt he’ll be in one for long if at all. It could even be argued that running for President makes him less of a flight risk.
JMG
@Kay: If a pickup truck in suburban Boston doesn’t have a business name on the side, work tools in the back, or isn’t hauling a boat, I automatically assume the driver’s a jerk.
Nelle
I’m grumbling over all the headlines about “first ex-president to be indicted.” I want his actions in the headline: “First president who attempted to overturn lost election. “First ex-president, who went on a four year crime spree, being called to account.” I guess we can’t taint the jury pool. Too bad the jury won’t be taking volunteers. We could have a jury of Baloon Juicers.
brendancalling
Shackles clang/Gavels bang/Cell doors rang
out as they slammed behind you
In a tiny cell it’s a living hell oh well
that’s where they’ll find you!
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
Right. But he’s now lost three in a row, where Joe Biden has been elected nationally three times. Past performance matters.
bbleh
Right now I don’t care even a tiny little bit about what the MAGAts think — it’s thoroughly predictable, and utterly irrelevant politically since how they’ll vote is set in stone — nor what other Republicans do — again thoroughly predictable, except the exact time and means when they turn on each other. Only effect I think this’ll have is it will drive away some of the fence-sitters (and just wait ’til Fulton County &/or the Feds chime in), which will hurt him in the general, should he survive long enough to run.
Today is all about righteous gloating. And maybe an early toast. 😄
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: “They’re getting him on the wrong crime!” is a hell of a take in the first place.
HeleninEire
@Steeplejack: YAY. Darth is back. Absolutely love him.
bbleh
@PST: @lowtechcyclist: concur. As I understand it, the campaign finance violation would be a Federal crime, not NY State.
That said, I’m surprised at the reporting that there are over 30 counts in the indictment. Even if they charge him separately for each of the fraudulent Cohen invoices, I don’t think there were 30 of them. So what else …?
SO much suspense! SO many cliffhangers! And Fulton County and the Feds still in the wings! What a blockbuster of a show!
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: My gut is saying it’s gonna be the kind where the Wikipedia entry says he died befre he went to trial.
Cameron
@different-church-lady: “The charges are terrible!” “And such short sentences!”
Manyakitty
@Kay: Andrew Weissman?
different-church-lady
@kalakal: It’s simple: DeSantis just claims Trump is going to NY for an abortion and arrests him.
bbleh
@OzarkHillbilly: @Baud: Ok, but I want a bipartisan panel of MDs to certify the death. Or better still, the traditional coup de grace.
Kay
@different-church-lady:
The Republican base, more and more, align themselves with criminals. They’re 100% on the side of criminals as far as guns. They’re the best thing that ever happened to criminals who love guns- the adoration is identical. They’re also 100% on the side of tax fraud and campaign finance violations.
Gun crimes, tax crimes and campaign finance crimes. They share that with America’s criminals.
Gin & Tonic
I’m actually more excited about Finland’s impending NATO membership than this apparent indictment. It looks like the Finns are excited too:
prostratedragon
A bit of something for J.S. Bach’s other birthday.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: Cool!
OzarkHillbilly
And cake, don’t forget the cake.
bbleh
@Gin & Tonic: @zhena gogolia: from what I’ve read, it is indeed a BFD, in particular that the Finns themselves decided to abandon their many decades of careful fence-straddling.
Putin sure has done a lot for the Motherland …
Kay
So John Edwards defense was he didn’t pay off his gf because of his campaign-he paid off his gf so he could continue to lie to his wife and family (to ‘protect’ his family was the defense).
But Trump will never use that because to use it he would have to admit to having sex with Daniels, which he will never do.
Geminid
@Butter Emails: This is only the first of several legal shoes to drop. The cumulative effect will be to damage Trump’s claim to electability.
A substantial portion of the Republican base is willing to go down with the Trump ship. But there is also a substantial portion that wants a winner, and electability is the best line of attack for Trump’s opponents. I don’t expect to know if it will work until this time next year.
zhena gogolia
@bbleh: The best reply:
https://twitter.com/d_foubert/status/1629431270890434560
bbleh
@Geminid: The indictments will be spread out. The legal maneuvering, including the usual Trump blizzard of motions and knee-jerk appeals, will continue unabated. At least one will come to trial before the election and/or during the campaign. And the press will be on it like white on flour.
It’s gonna be a Trumpian circus. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Another Scott
I see that FTFNYT has a front page picture of TFG, looking up at the big orange man as he glowers, wearing …
wait for it …
wait…
A blue tie.
Billions of pictures of him in red ties – the color of his MAGA cult and his party.
But they show him in a blue one.
Gee, I wonder why.
Cynically,
Scott.
Ken
I think it’s still the Prisoner’s Dilemma, just with inaction giving the bigger payout. That is, in the usual form, the person who acts (confesses) gets the smaller penalty, but when they all do that it’s worse for the group.
With the GOP candidates, the ones who keep quiet about Trump get the smaller penalty — in that they don’t become targets of his verbal attacks, and possibly of his supporters’ physical attacks. But when they all hang back it’s worse for them all.
Kay
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s great.
I’m just in awe of Ukranians. Tough people. I think we all owe them a huge debt.
different-church-lady
Please go to Moscow next.
PST
@bbleh: I think you’re right. It would have been more accurate to say that the illegal campaign contribution was the action that started the fraud ball rolling, even if in itself it wasn’t a state crime that could form part of the indictment. I’ll be interested whether taking part in a conspiracy to violate the law can be a state crime even if the law in question is federal. With over 30 counts, if that leak proves accurate, we’ll all have plenty to unpack.
Matt McIrvin
@different-church-lady: I’ve been seeing a lot of people apparently on our side complaining about this–sometimes as if this is the only thing he’ll ever be indicted for. “I’d prefer it if they got him on one of the really bad ones first”–well, the liberals of America don’t really control the schedule.
bbleh
@PST: we’ll all have plenty to unpack.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It’s irresponsible NOT to! Let the wild rumpus begin!
@Matt McIrvin: the liberals of America don’t really control the schedule.
Ha! Tell THAT to the MAGAtariat.
kalakal
@JMG:
Here in Fl you can probably make that assumption if it’s hauling a boat
brendancalling
@different-church-lady: My dad pulled that take on me. I asked if he thought Al Capone should have been set free.
Geminid
@bbleh: I think the more Trump is in the news the worse it is for Republicans across the board.
Ken
I always mentally translate that to “You asked my client a question, knowing he’s incapable of telling the truth, when you already knew the answer.”
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist:
Probably too slow this morning, but …
In the context of a political campaign, yes it is a crime. Payments to campaigns to affect the course of an election are limited by federal law, and personal unlimited donations have to be reported. So, yeah, he could have written her a personal check to keep her quiet, but he would have had to report the payment because it was election related.
AFAIK, though, this NY state indictment isn’t about breaking federal campaign finance laws. It’s rumored to be about shady bookkeeping and fraud (claiming it was a “legal” expense) and breaking the laws of NY.
Lots more indictments possible!
Corrections welcome.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
As it is irresponsible not to speculate, I’ll guess that when they started looking at the books, other things fell out. Maybe they had a whole accounting category labelled “hush money payments”.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin:
The liberal “I’d prefer they get him on the more important stuff” seems even more unwise when compared to the MAGA “LOCK HER UP JUST FOR EXISTING!”
Jeffro
@Princess: TRUTH
kalakal
Oscar Wilde left us a vision of what I hope will be Trump’s future
“I know not whether Laws be right,
Or whether Laws be wrong;
All that we know who lie in gaol
Is that the wall is strong;
And that each day is like a year,
A year whose days are long…
Each narrow cell in which we dwell
Is a foul and dark latrine,
And the fetid breath of living Death
Chokes up each grated screen,
And all, but Lust, is turned to dust
In Humanity’s machine.
The brackish water that we drink
Creeps with a loathsome slime,
And the bitter bread they weigh in scales
Is full of chalk and lime,
And Sleep will not lie down, but walks
Wild-eyed, and cries to Time.
But though lean Hunger and green Thirst
Like asp with adder fight,
We have little care of prison fare,
For what chills and kills outright
Is that every stone one lifts by day
Becomes one’s heart by night.
With midnight always in one’s heart,
And twilight in one’s cell,
We turn the crank, or tear the rope,
Each in his separate Hell,
And the silence is more awful far
Than the sound of a brazen bell.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Ken: I’ve got my fingers crossed that he actually did shoot somebody on 5th Avenue.
Jeffro
Has anyone seen that video of trump slamming DeSantis for insulting Putin (by telling the truth and calling Putin a ‘war criminal’ and ‘a gas station attendant with nukes’?)
it’s unbelievable.
Worst day of his life, and Orangemandias. Is mad at Ron for slamming Vladimir Putin. 🤔🤔🤔
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: I’m in a place where I just don’t want to assume anything about how easy or difficult it will be to beat Trump. As Paul Campos just reminded us in a long gloomy rant, most people considered him a laugh line in 2016.
I wouldn’t ever bet a lot against evil in this country of evil, broken people.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott: Not a lawyer, so maybe this is wrong, but I read somewhere that the statute of limitations ran out on the federal campaign finance violation, so Trump can’t be charged with that, even if this were the proper venue, which it isn’t.
WaterGirl
@Kay: If 49% of dependents think the investigations are not above board, or aren’t sure they are above board, then I would posit that quite a large % of people who claim to be independent are nothing of the sort.
Barbara
@Another Scott: The house rep from San Diego (Duncan? Can’t remember his name) was prosecuted for paying personal expenses out of his campaign funds.
The legal ambiguity is whether this pattern of conduct that clearly violates federal law could serve as a predicate for a violation of New York law. I honestly haven’t followed it closely enough to understand any of the arguments, for or against.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid: While Trump has helped make us all cynics, there are some normie Republicans who genuinely believe crime deserves punishment. Period. Right now, they think its all politically motivated because the evidence and the charges haven’t been made public plus that’s what right wing media is telling them. Once this goes to court, they aren’t going to be able to suppress the evidence completely. It will erode his support with people who have even part of one foot in the real world. For the sake of the country, that is 100% necessary.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: I agree! As soon as I read that, I added it as a rotating tag. It’s so good that I don’t even care if it is a little long for a rotating tag.
eversor
@lowtechcyclist:
That’s what also gets me about it. This is all so cheap and petty. 100k? That’s chump change. I’m just an IT manager and I could come up with 100k if I had to within a week with no issues. Like you I’m not rich but I’m doing well. My parents are well off and they could summon up a few million and not give a fuck. They bought my sister a house in flat cash and they are not billionaires.
It’s all so petty low ball shit. I know actual Romney level rich people and hang out with them and they don’t do this sort of crap.
For a bunch of movers and doers getting nabbed for funny money to the amount of a pathetic 100k is just absurd.
Tony Jay
I’ve been savouring a bit too much and now I think I’ve pulled a muscle in my gloateus maximus.
Barbara
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Like all the reactive howling that was triggered by the FBI search warrant for documents at Mar a Lago, I assume that various people will suddenly go quiet when evidence is put into the public domain, but I doubt they will ever admit that they were wrong in condemning the prosecution without knowing more.
Bupalos
I’m more than a little worried about the Trump circus starting up again. Seems to me one of the ways authoritarianism grows is through a kind of exhausting spectacle and strife that gets everyone interpreting themselves in relation to the cycle of political spectacle. It sucks up all the space. Trump actually being brought low would be a good thing. I don’t know if it’s worth the damage of more years of everyone staring at his dumpy ass while Republican governors and legislatures quietly strangle the IRA, shred safety nets, seed financial chaos, increase inequality, and generally prep the country for a Trump Jr.
I think it’s pretty important we treat this as the potentially satisfying sideshow it is, and it doesn’t become what American politics coalesces around
I’d like to see protestors around capitols with signs that say “Gov X stole my Heat Pump!”
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Some lawyer-sounding-person downstairs says that a strong case can be made that the statute of limitations stops ticking when circumstances prevent prosecution. Like a president cannot be prosecuted while in office, so the clock has to stop.
Lawyers can and do argue both sides of everything – it’s their job – and there’s no/little case law to back it up (except maybe Agnew and tax evasion?), and the federal courts are often insane these days, so who knows. But it makes sense to me.
I think a bigger problem is that the FEC is usually equally divided or lacking a quorum, or otherwise nearly toothless. Dunno how they fit in the actual prosecution of things.
FWIW.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: This criminal case and the ones to come will hurt Trump even more among Republcan-leaning Independents, and Republicans cannot win purple states without them.
Those voters will not have that big an impact in the primaries. But in a general election, appeasing Trump’s die-hards and appealing to Independents is a zero-sum game.
kalakal
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I think you’re right. Given how tight the margin is in swing states they could make a difference out of all proportion to their numbers
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Ken: I think it’s another game theory dilemma – the free rider problem. They’re all waiting for one guy to stick his neck out and take the flak from Trump so they get a field cleared of Trump without paying the cost of incoming flak from Trump.
Ken
You gotta dance with the one that brought you.
Cameron
@Jeffro: At least bro knows which butter his side is breaded on.
Ken
This is why we need an upvote feature.
Cameron
@Tony Jay: Excellent.
scav
“Such a Witch hunt! It’s not like Trump did a Real crime like PUBLIC URINATION!!!!!!”
Bupalos
@Geminid: If you ask me, Trump is already the kind of bad, wounded candidate that if you can’t beat, you need to look at yourself.
Eolirin
@kalakal: That plus the dominance we have with Gen Z voters, who will make up an increasing percentage of the electorate every year going forward, are the most hopeful things we have going for us right now.
Spadizzly
@different-church-lady: May your gut be prescient.
Geminid
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Trump’s smarter Republican opponents are also waiting to launch their public campaigns before they go after Trump. That won’t be until summer. Right now they’re making their case among smaller groups and especially, donors.
DeSantis has already made a “soft” public campaign launch, and so far that does not seem to have worked out so well.
Betty Cracker
@Bupalos: Your point about exhausting spectacle sometimes enabling authoritarianism to flourish is a good one. But thus far, the Trump circus has been damaging to Repubs. The places that were already MAGAfied became more so, but Dems won statehouses, House seats, governorships, etc., they’d struggled to win before the orange loser-stink settled over their opponents. I don’t know if that will continue, but Trump has unquestionably weakened Repubs and made it harder for them to operate on the down-low so far.
@Another Scott: Good points. Also, if we ever beat the barbarians away from the gates long enough to get a breather, I think we should revisit the memo on which the notion that the POTUS is immune from prosecution while in office is based. We don’t want US presidents subject to frivolous legal harassment, but they shouldn’t have monarchical protection either. I’m not sure what the answer is, but the present approach kinda sucks.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Barbara:
A defining characteristic of the GOP is blaming others when they are wrong.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Betty Cracker: My understanding is that the crime is how they recorded the expense. Cooking the books. But there’s some murkiness, because what makes it a felony is doing so in furtherance of a crime, the crime being the election law violation. But that’s a federal crime so the judge will have to decide if that’s included in the felony requirements.
sdhays
@OzarkHillbilly: “But think of the ratings, Donnie! Think of the ratings!!”
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I’m amazed the sense of relief I feel about all this. Being indicted isn’t much of a consequence for all he’s done, the trial could likely drag into 2024 and he’ll never do jail time for any of it. But it is a CONSEQUENCE. That matters. The chatter (in retrospect, probably much of it from bots) about taking a break for a month was beginning to get to me.
And he’s facing an actual trial in a few weeks with E. Jean Carroll. And there’s another definite trial date in October (Letitia James?)
Pappenheimer
@OzarkHillbilly: Who could he trust as a second? It’s one thing to drive the knife in, but you’d like to be sure that the guy who’s supposed to behead you isn’t going to just stand there and grin.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: Mirrors on standby for the entire GOP field.
Geminid
@Bupalos: We don’t know whether anyone can or cannot beat Trump. My guess is that at most only two or three of the potential candidates have a chance. But no one is going to do it 11 months before the primaries start.
Mike in NC
They’re saying on the TV that “Trump may surrender next week” but I sure don’t want that to happen. Much better that he (1) flee the country to take asylum in Russia, or (2) fight it out until Mar-A-Lago resembles Stalingrad with palm trees.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
There’s kind of a lag between political media’s belief in “popularity” and genuine popularity though. I remember it most clearly with Sara Palin. She lost and for years after they insisted she was popular and she just wasn’t. She was barely popular at her height let alone two years after losing. Political media are rigidly conventional, stodgy people who take no risks. They’re always behind.
Matt McIrvin
@Bupalos:
They Might Be Giants’ somewhat obscure pandemic-era song “Drown The Clown” seems to be about this. There’s a weather woman on the TV yelling about something. There’s one of those carny dunk-tank games, where the carny yells insults at you to entice you to drop him in a tank of water. The protagonist sees the weather report as a mere distraction from the more important job of drowning the clown. Maybe it’s really the other way around. But, God, did you hear what he said?
The more time we have to spend on this, the more time we’re not spending doing anything to help people or fix things that are broken. But maybe we don’t have a choice. They don’t give us a choice.
gvg
@lowtechcyclist: 34 indictments…I think it’s all of them.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
Yeah, @PST beat you to it, and I stand corrected. :-)
Mimi haha
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Anyone who thinks it’s politically motivated is as dumb as Eric Trump.
mrmoshpotato
@Mike in NC:
Fixed.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
It’s far more than a sideshow. This country has been really dropping the ball for the past few decades when it comes to holding rich, powerful, and/or influential people to account.
If we don’t establish here and now that TFG isn’t above the law, then the notion that no one in America is above the law will have become a complete and total joke.
We cannot afford that.
mrmoshpotato
@lowtechcyclist: I would like to add “Go fuck yourself, Gerald Ford!”
kalakal
@mrmoshpotato: Don’t forget the Patriot Moat! He’ll be able to laugh at the full might of the US safely shielded behind the elite of the wingnuts.
Har!Har!Har!
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@lowtechcyclist:
This.
mrmoshpotato
What fat, fanatical, fascistic fuckers are digging this moat? And is it BYOA? (Bring Your Own Alligator)
rikyrah
I love her stuff..LOL
Qondi (@QondiNtini) tweeted at 11:35 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
I just know President Joe Biden is still up chilling in the White House kitchen eating ice cream and waiting for Vice President Kamala Harris to wake up in Tanzania so they can lol about Trump
Qondi (@QondiNtini) tweeted at 11:48 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
MVP: Okay Joe I’ve got my coffee tell me everything
POTUS: Now I’m not one to gossip but I heard he was begging his secret service detail to hide him
MVP: Let me put an alert on my phone so I don’t miss the arrest
POTUS: I’ll send it to the group chat with Hillary and Barack
Qondi (@QondiNtini) tweeted at 0:00 AM on Fri, Mar 31, 2023:
President Bae: Joe. Miche says we can’t spend the whole night laughing about it
President Biden: Tell her I said, “Yes we can.”
President Bae: Okay. That was funny. Tell me about him buying disguises on Amazon again.
President Biden: Sources say he’s leaning towards Hamburglar https://t.co/9UOS0pHq8T
(https://twitter.com/QondiNtini/status/1641666675165609984?t=dH–IEqd-wuurCfzxTSn5Q&s=03)
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah: LOL! That’s good!
lowtechcyclist
@mrmoshpotato:
FWIW, that one doesn’t bother me so much. Sure, Nixon got off, but Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell, and all the President’s other henchmen served time. A President can’t do much criming without help, and if everyone providing that help gets tossed in prison, that makes giving that help a lot less appealing.
I do think Congress should have finished impeaching and convicting him, though.
I’m much more pissed at both Bushes for pardoning their Administrations’ criminals, and even Obama for ‘looking forward, not back’ and failing, AFAICT, to even try to see if anyone was legally culpable for their roles in bringing about the Great Recession.
gvg
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Don’t states have their own election laws too? Especially New York I would think.
rikyrah
Love this:)
Madam Vice President Harris is THEE GOAT! (@flywithkamala) tweeted at 7:26 AM on Fri, Mar 31, 2023:
106-year-old indigenous Apo Whang-Od gracefully covers Vogue Philippines, becoming the oldest person to be on any cover of Vogue. She looks amazing!! https://t.co/InraDqmhzJ
(https://twitter.com/flywithkamala/status/1641778961033068546?t=vpfdb7n3cRNbW3-kOHZWPg&s=03)
montanareddog
@rikyrah:
I think he will need a Dave’s Tripleburglar costume
Mai Naem mobile
I always thought the blackity blackity black guy making fun of him at the WHCA dinner, at least in part, spurred TFG to run in 2016. It’s got to be killing his psyche to be even a biglier joke now. World wide joke.
rikyrah
Stephen Wolf (@PoliticsWolf) tweeted at 0:57 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
New Mexico’s & Minnesota’s restorations of voting rights to people on parole/probation take effect in July, & this cartogram shows what each state’s felony disenfranchisement laws will look like.
A majority of Americans live in states that only disenfranchise people in prison. https://t.co/mHlyDPhGmt
(https://twitter.com/PoliticsWolf/status/1641499831137890304?t=KH6e2Wemkw1J2s2T3Twg7w&s=03)
rikyrah
Stephen Wolf (@PoliticsWolf) tweeted at 0:39 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
Following New Mexico’s adoption of automatic voter registration today, this cartogram shows that jurisdictions with 48% of America’s population have AVR laws on the books or don’t require registration (ND).
If Minnesota adopts AVR later this year, it will become just over 50% https://t.co/ojmxwrgNIw
(https://twitter.com/PoliticsWolf/status/1641495381987975196?t=P14M2lrrmDr_ERsVcMuKcg&s=03)
rikyrah
Voting rights EXPANSION is always a good thing :)
Stephen Wolf (@PoliticsWolf) tweeted at 0:29 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
NEW: New Mexico Democrats have enacted a state Voting Rights Act, including:
1⃣Automatic voter registration
2⃣Restoring voting rights for 11,000 people on parole/probation
3⃣Native American voting access measures
4⃣A permanent absentee ballot list, & more
https://t.co/HL6fOfKPKn
(https://twitter.com/PoliticsWolf/status/1641492881843138590?t=etMaxJMesYaWk4IuYDiLlA&s=03)
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: Don’t forget the E. Jean Carroll civil case. I can only imagine the gross and horrible details that are going to come out of that one.
rikyrah
BWA HA HA AH AH AH AH HA HA HAHA HA HA HA
Hope Restored In DFW (@Kennymack1971) tweeted at 11:16 PM on Thu, Mar 30, 2023:
The GOP Big Donor class is absolutely SICK right now.
They wanted him gone and what they thought would take care of that for them isn’t working out that way.
They’re for real stuck with him.
(https://twitter.com/Kennymack1971/status/1641655691201986562?t=OvNOhY-RaYSF_OmtQpINRg&s=03)
UncleEbeneezer
@lowtechcyclist: Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby and R. Kelly are all pretty good counter-examples. They were all convicted and Cosby only had his sentence overturned due to prosecutorial overreach that many warned about at the time. Bannon, Flynn, Stone, Manafort etc. were also convicted and only are free now because of a Presidential pardon. Our system will never be able to imprison EVERY rich criminal (it isn’t designed to) especially those with political connections to possible pardons, but I would say our system has been doing pretty well with prosecuting rich and powerful people in recent years. Certainly better than most other countries.
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Are you taking lots of photos? We would love to “see” your trip in On the Road!
WaterGirl
@Matt McIrvin:
Seriously? You can say that with a straight face?
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Nicely done!
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay: hahaha
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@gvg: Whatever it is, rumor has it they came up with 34 separate crimes, not just the one everyone was speculating about, speculation I’m just blindly repeating.
So chances are at least one of them will stick.
lowtechcyclist
@UncleEbeneezer:
And two of those three are Black, which makes them rather weak counterexamples.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I was really seriously hoping that Barr would face obstruction charges and would suffer the same fate as Mitchell. It pisses me off that he in particular is skating, for all the damage he did to this country and to the rule of law
Which goes to actual trial on Apr 25. No more delay, delay, delay on that one.
lowtechcyclist
@UncleEbeneezer:
Ditto Scooter Libby, and of course the entire Iran-Contra crew was pardoned before getting that far. Abuse of the Presidential pardon power, and the lack of reaction against it, is a serious part of the problem.
Matt McIrvin
@WaterGirl: 538’s job-approval aggregate has Biden at 42.6% approval, 53.4% disapproval, which is very close to where Donald Trump was at this stage in his presidency.
It’s also close to where Ronald Reagan was at this stage in his presidency, so, you know, things can change. But it’s where we are.
I can’t find current numbers on Trump’s approval/disapproval. I’ve found head-to-head polls on Trump vs. Biden, and mostly Biden wins if it’s a Democratic-leaning poll and Trump wins if it’s a Republican-leaning poll. Not very illuminating.
lowtechcyclist
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Agreed. Fucker lied about the Mueller Report long enough so that when the truth came out, the media had moved on (the way they didn’t after Butter Emails – grrr). If there’s anything he could still be charged with, I’d love to see it happen.
Frankensteinbeck
@Matt McIrvin:
This I’m not worried about. Right now, to everyone but the most involved, Biden is a theoretical figure all their recent experience with has been “Is Biden a failure?” news stories. When the campaign trail starts, the news will start putting his actual speeches on television, and people are going to go”Fun Uncle Biden is back!” Biden is a reverse Romney. The closer you get to Biden, the more you like him.
Sparkedcat
@Another Scott: My understanding as it relates to NY law is that Trump fraudulently reported the Trump Org reimbursment to Michael Cohen for the Stormy Daniels payoff as a “legitimate” business expense for legal services. This is a felony in NY because the fraudulent “business expense” was done to conceal an underlying crime. The underlying crime being Michael Cohen’s illegal payoff to Stormy Daniels.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@Another Scott: That was me. Caveat: I was stating the general rule on tolling. I have not looked up the particular statutes at issue, let alone any relevant case law or anybody’s LawFare articles. Being retired, I don’t have to do that kind of thing and I sure don’t want to.
Ruckus
@Kay:
“He’s getting Al Caponed” is a defense of Trump? God Lord, but standards have dropped.
Rethuglican standards have never been in any way high.
But I think minuscule now applies.
Ruckus
@Butter Emails:
They found someone who could win. A terrible, worse than useless, not quite moron, who could make government far worse in a very short time and would allow them to act openly like they want to. Rethuglicans do not want government. They want everyone to do their concept of the right thing. Which is to get out of the way and agree to all of their bigotry. Besides he’s rich and money talks. He’s rich he must be smart. This is the heart of conservative politics – wealth and hate the same people.
Citizen Alan
@Nelle: One of my concerns is that because a potential juror can be struck in voir dire for having followed the case too closely in the media to the point of having formed opinions, the jury will be limited to the dumbest, least informed, most willfully ignorant that can be found in Manhattan.
brantl
@OzarkHillbilly: Those knives aren’t long enough to reach anything vital in that tub of lard, his second would have to take his head off, and you can’t hurt him in the head, either…..
Chris T.
Bumper snicker: “Al Capone for Republican President / Tax evasion was just a process crime”
Not sure how to fit this one on a bumper-sticker: “Lock her up for unspecified unproven crime, keep him free for proven crime”
misterpuff
Yup, Soros Puppeteering.
That bit pissed me off the most.