A gunman opened fire on an outlet mall in a Dallas suburb on Saturday afternoon, killing at least eight people — including children — and injuring at least seven others before he was fatally shot by a police officer, authorities said.https://t.co/7gBDCm7EDr
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) May 7, 2023
Rep. Keith Self: “Really I would like to stay away from the politics today …” https://t.co/QWaUNIsGst pic.twitter.com/w29dPEAlq3
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) May 7, 2023
Even they get how formulaic and hackneyed it is. Given their power I’m surprised they haven’t just moved on to, “A bummer but a price well worth paying so everyone can have 20 Ar-15s.” https://t.co/OoJK8L4mYr
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) May 7, 2023
Abbott is the only governor in the country to have been on the job for THREE separate mass shootings to leave over 20 people dead and the only governor with TWO mass school shootings to leave 10+ dead. His state sold guns used by the Vegas shooter & floods Mexico with firearms.
— zeddy (@Zeddary) May 7, 2023
Texas gave us Waco, Dealey Plaza and the phrase 'climb the clock tower.'
In 2019, 3700 Texans were killed by gunfire. New York, with the same size population, had 800.
Gun violence is horrifying across the country but America's sucking chest wound is deep in the heart of Texas.
— zeddy (@Zeddary) May 7, 2023
Never forget pic.twitter.com/xqjFEVaXjb
— Rep. Eric Swalwell (@RepSwalwell) May 7, 2023
Also: Seeing a lot of blowback to WaPo and WSJ saying Mauricio Garcia may have had white supremacist ties, given his race. So periodic reminder that there's a long history of POCs advancing and supporting Nazi/white supremacist goals/ideology. pic.twitter.com/W51RNlIFzQ
— Robert Downen (@RobertDownen_) May 7, 2023
Left: Enrique Tarrio, America's newest convicted leader of a seditious conspiracy, wearing RWDS shirt.
Right: Enrique Tarrio with Texas Senator Ted Cruz. https://t.co/b7EmFFKpga pic.twitter.com/zqxTPI5k6A
— zeddy (@Zeddary) May 7, 2023
I missed it earlier, but Bertino's shirt also has RWDS – "right wing death squad" – on the sleeve. These dudes *love* Pinochet and the murder, torture & terror he inflicted on innocent people. And they are 1-2 phone calls from some of the most powerful people on the planet. https://t.co/2Fu07OPRYF
— Robert Downen (@RobertDownen_) May 7, 2023
And now our Fox viewers will rush to buy *MORE* guns! Yay for another win!
Flashback: In 2017, Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested the Las Vegas mass shooting that left 60 people dead was a false flag operation designed to get “Trump supporters” to “go along with anti-gun legislation.” pic.twitter.com/EAGSY86z6W
— PatriotTakes ???? (@patriottakes) May 7, 2023
She likes that you're powerless in the face of the violence conservatism brings. It's a thrill for her.
— Slope Slipperer (@agraybee) May 7, 2023
“Fortification of soft targets” <— perhaps if the body armor came in kid sizes, and the outlet malls were more impregnable https://t.co/xLmeaAgd8V
— Patrick Anderson (@pimlius) May 7, 2023
SiubhanDuinne
Please gods, tell me that “Greg Abbott” tweet is from a spoof account.
Baud
It’s also a strategy. Too many liberals shut down at the prospect of a generational fight.
Alison Rose
How about Abbott and Kelly and the rest of them all have to sit in the room watching as the bodies are prepared for funeral services. Although I’d bet the fucking ghouls would enjoy it.
There was also this in Brownsville today: (NYT gift link)
Alison Rose
@SiubhanDuinne: It is not a spoof account. He’s just actually that evil.
SiubhanDuinne
@Alison Rose:
JFC. That’s unbefuckinglievable.
Citizen Alan
The dirty little secret that none dare admit is this: Republicans LOVE mass shootings. Because after every mass shooting, all the ammosexuals rush out to buy more guns and ammo for fear that the liberals will finally get a law passed. The gun manufacturers are then flush with new cash that they can spend on right wing lobbyists which then passes to GOP politicians. And as an added bonus, they get to piss off liberals, which is literally the only thing they care about on this Earth. Republicans ADORE mass shootings.
Alison Rose
@SiubhanDuinne: I got curious to see if the date of his tweet (October 28, 2015) happened to be soon after any notable mass shootings. Of course since this is MURRICA, literally any date would be soon after any notable mass shootings. But in this case, October 1, 2015 was the Umpqua College shooting where 9 people were killed, and October 9 was a shooting at a college in Flagstaff AZ where 4 people were killed. So a few weeks after those, Abbott was out there chastising his constituents for not buying more guns.
I fucking hate gun humpers. I hate them so God damn much.
Alison Rose
@Citizen Alan: Yep. And if you said that where they could hear or read it, they’d clutch their pearls so hard, they’d turn back into mollusk tissue.
JWR
I used to say to my right-wing co-workers that Bush Jr. was inflicted on the U.S. to make sure we never elect another like him. Same thing with guns. God is causing us to suffer and die so that we’ll get rid of the guns. The one thing I’m not sure of is how many thousands have to die before God gets its way?
P.S. One last thing: God’s got nothing to do with any of this. It don’t care!
PPS. Was going to link to that Keith Self (R-Nutjob) tweet earlier this morning but just didn’t have the heart. But the dude’s serious, and a nutball, too!
ETA keep it in church, f*ckhead.
OzarkHillbilly
Rep. Keith Self: “The almighty god who is in control of our lives…” Fuck him and his “almighty god” who demands the blood sacrifices of these innocents. You know what? If there is a god, and I mean a merciful, loving god (and all evidence thus far suggests otherwise)… I ain’t gonna say what I want to.
OzarkHillbilly
Amen, brother.
JWR
@OzarkHillbilly: AMEN!
brantl
@SiubhanDuinne: It is, but Abbot is a REAL Republican, you know the real assholes’ real asshole.
bbleh
Obviously the problem is not enough guns in the hands of people permanently on hair-trigger. That’s the only way we’d be safe. 🙄
I happened to learn today that the contemporary meaning of the phrase “bear arms” in the second amendment was specifically to serve in a militia, which at the time were the only military defense the country had. There was even contemporary commentary that someone who merely carried a weapon for hunting or self defense “could not be said to have borne arms.” It’s closer to our use of the word “served” in reference to the military. This also explains the introductory clause, which might otherwise seem a little disconnected.
IOW, the second amendment does not guarantee the right of any citizen to possess weapons; it protects the existence of (“well-regulated”) state militias in the interest of protecting the country.
OzarkHillbilly
@JWR: Speaking as an atheist, that is always my response.
sanjeevs
NYT headline
And in the same story
Also on the front page of the NYT
And in the same story
It’s a mystery , a real mystery.
Quiltingfool
Wasn’t the point of the Patriot Act to ferret out Middle East terrorists operating on US soil? One fear was that these terrorists would focus on soft targets (shopping malls, for example) and then people would avoid shopping and thus depress the economy?
So how is this different? We have US terrorists focused on soft targets, making folks fearful to shop, go to concerts, send their children to public/private schools, well, just go anywhere. These guys have an advantage over foreign terrorists-they are shielded by the 2nd Amendment.
When is the breaking point? How long must we be held hostage?
Elizabelle
From the WaPost story at the top of their website right now.
Source:
Investigators examine Texas gunman’s white supremacist views after 8 killed
Shoppers recall the horror of another mass killing just days after another event where multiple people were shot
karen marie
In the face of death and destruction, I’m making and eating carbs.
I made crumpets yesterday and focaccia today. Kind of screwed up both. This is my second try at crumpets. This time the batter was too thick, last time I filled the rings too high, both times I failed to get the signature holes on the top, but they work very well as “English muffins” – split and toasted.
The focaccia is very tasty but I got impatient and added more flour because the sticky dough was making me cranky. I infused some olive oil with thyme, fresh rosemary and garlic which I then used in the dough and to drizzle on top. I’d def do it again but will keep a better eye on things because the garlic on top burned a little bit. Meh.
Still, all of it’s very tasty. Let’s hear it for carbs!
Elizabelle
@Quiltingfool: I think we are close to a tipping point, if we have not already passed it.
This cannot go on. We can get people who care about other people to vote on this.
karen marie
Fact not in evidence.
JWR
I don’t know how many of you read the WaPo story linked in the last thread, but this part was especially bad, not to mention gruesome. (You’ve been warned.)
WaPo gift link?
Elizabelle
@karen marie: I disagree. People are voting on Dobbs, and they can vote on Sandy Hook and Uvalde and Las Vegas and all the gun massacres.
The Second Amendment is endangering our right to free assembly. To emerge alive from a classroom, a theatre, a shopping trip, our workplaces.
“I can’t believe that could happen here!” is on the way to joining “thoughts and prayers” in statements ripe for mocking.
RSA
Abbott talks about funding for mental health. Eyeballing a map and a list for “The Total Amount of State Mental Health Agency Expenditures per Capita in Every State,” it looks as though Texas ranks 49 out of 50.
Maybe he could… I don’t know… do his job and take it up with the Lege?
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly:
Brother of Mine,
I am seriously considering changing my nym to “Blech.” Or maybe, “Mother Fuckin Hell on Earth Blech.” As owner of every Blech trademark and copyright, what say you?
As the kids say, I can’t even anymore.
Love, Imm — who has Bomba Rise.
JWR
@bbleh:
You mean Scalia was just talking out of his a$$? Well blow me down! ;)
@OzarkHillbilly: Same here. Actually, it’s just not something I even think much about: am I an Athiest, or am I Agnostic? In situations like these, I just don’t care. So with you all the way.
Immanentize
For Tom —
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: When I was a teenager, a lot of the odious cultural positions that Republicans are now trying to maintain through undemocratic structural means were then genuinely supported by a majority. A lot of what we’re seeing now is the dead hand of the past in operation.
It will continue to do damage for decades to come. But I don’t believe that a set of cultural positions opposed by a growing and an increasingly aggrieved majority is sustainable.
Baud
A couple of Reddit comments.
Ruckus
@JWR:
When has god ever done anything to prevent death? According to religions, they exist to teach people about heaven and hell and that everyone is going to one or the other. Is it possible that god likes death?
For some of you that may seem sacrilegious or even hateful. But when I see supposedly religious people being racist, demanding that guns don’t kill, or that death is only god’s business or anything along those lines, I’m thinking that maybe religions aren’t all that they seem to be cracked up to be.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
👍
Jay
@RSA:
It’s just empty talk. Abbot knows “it’s the guns”, and mental health has nothing to do with it.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I have never seen that. Perfect.
RSA
You’re exactly right.
Sure Lurkalot
Megyn Kelly’s idea of freedom.
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m pretty sure even the Christians, if pressed, will tell you that God made humans with free will that enables them to do evil things. In which case God isn’t in control of everything, by his own design. So it’s not as if thoughts and prayers will accomplish a whole lot either way.
WaterGirl
@karen marie: Baking. It’s the new retail therapy. :-)
Baud
Since this is tagged an open thread, this is interesting.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: You have my blessings.
I too have sons, and granddaughters for whom I would gladly die knowing they are safe. But ever since I dove out into rush hour traffic on 7th street and saw my son’s 4 yo head silhouetted by the headlights of the oncoming cars, I have never known that peace.
In some small way I know the fear you felt for your son, the terror that did not abate for months on end.
Love you, brother.
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: For one thing, you are less likely to get shot while doing it.
E.
@Elizabelle: Once shopping and banking feel the squeeze, better gun laws will follow. This country can accommadate way, way more dead schoolchildren than dead shoppers. We don’t actually care that much about children. Not nearly so much as shopping.
YY_Sima Qian
Is it me or are mass shootings in the US becoming more frequent & more deadly? Sigh…
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: Perfect.
Elizabelle
@Matt McIrvin:
Exactly. I just hope the end will come rapidly, and that historians and observers will marvel at how completely the hollowed out edifice falls. And the constant mass murders stop.
We could have an assault weapons ban. We could.
And we could have 13 to 15 Supreme Court justices, too. Because otherwise every victory gained legislatively, through hard, hard work, can be overturned by Republican radicals in judicial robes.
hilts
Megyn Kelly has attained peak ghoulishness.
OzarkHillbilly
Yes, the omniscient, omnipresent God chooses to do nothing. Which makes him a cruel scum sucking piece of shit who enjoys watching his chosen people suffering.
As Tevye once said, “I understand we are your chosen people, but couldn’t you choose somebody else every now and again?”
Baud
@hilts:
That’s what you need to do to stay relevant in the right wing space. It’s like natural selection of evil.
Raoul Paste
@Sure Lurkalot:
“ we need the second amendment to prevent the rise of a tyrannical police state”
That doesn’t seem to be working very well, does it?
Matt McIrvin
@E.: Eh, bricks and mortar shopping centers are on their way out anyway, right?
JWR
@Elizabelle: Local NBC news started with an interview with Spainhouer’s father. He said that he had guns, that he loved his guns, but that these assault rifles had to go, and he’d be talking about this until the day he dies. No word on whether or not he votes a straight R ticket.
Kelly
The 2nd amendment starts with “well regulated”. If that doesn’t allow us to regulate high capacity, fast reloading rifles like AR 15s seems like full auto regulations are unconstitutional. An individual right to bear arms should include the right bear grenades and whatever artillery tubes your truck can move. I expect billionaires should be competing to own combat aircraft with ammo, missiles and bombs.
Elizabelle
@E.: I would really like to see Americans who care about gun violence stay home for two or three days. Don’t order online, either.
Just stay home. Don’t go to work. Don’t go to school. Do as much shopping as the dead shoppers and schoolchildren do. As all those killed at a Las Vegas concert by a shooter from a nearby hotel window.
Stay home longer, if you can.
Make it clear that we can be absent, too.
Other countries do strikes over issues that are far less deadly.
Salty Sam
A friend of mine who is a psychotherapist told me that, back in the 80’s when she was a social worker, and Reagan was closing down mental health institutions (here in Texas it was really bad), she and her fellow social workers practiced “bus station therapy”, telling clients “I’m sorry, there simply aren’t ANY resources here for you. I recommend buying a bus ticket to somewhere else that might have better mental health services. “
It has not gotten better in the intervening years.
Old Dan and Little Ann
@Immanentize: When I started asking probing questions to the priests in grammar school, their go to answer was always, “It’s a mystery.” So I was skeptical at age 8.
RSA
I asked this very question once, when I was in elementary school. The nun told me, if I remember correctly, that God gave me free will to choose to do the right thing. Even as a ten-year-old or so I was not impressed.
Elizabelle
@JWR: This is the Spainhouer who arrived to help, and found a girl whose face had been shot off?
He could be an excellent advocate. Military and law enforcement background.
RSA
@Salty Sam: Wow. What a vivid expression, bus station therapy. It applies in other sorts of medical situations today as well.
Jackie
@Elizabelle: “Vote for children; not for guns” needs to be adopted by Democrats, along with “Vote for choice” and “Vote for freedom from book bannings” and “Vote for the right to vote.”
JWR
@Elizabelle: Yes, that’s him. From the WaPo story:
And I agree he would make a great spokesperson. ETA, and I see how I got that wrong in my previous comment. Sorry! ;)
gene108
@Matt McIrvin:
In enough states, a majority of voters support these nationally unpopular positions, which makes it hard to impossible to actually do away with them.
Since so much is determined at the state and local level, national trends don’t matter if the majority of voters in MS, AL, SC, WY, ID, TX, etc. keep voting for regressive policies.
The Thin Black Duke
The GOP is saying we need more of the “mental health facilities” that they’re busy shutting down.
Elizabelle
@Jackie: Yes!
I think it’s gotten to the ridiculous stage. Clearly, you cannot control these military guns, so they need to be removed from society.
Maybe we are looking at a rotted and tissue thin edifice of right wing terrorism, propped up by billionaires.
Timill
@Kelly: “Yes, in spite of all my meekness
If I have a little weakness
It’s a passion for a flight of P-47s”
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke: Of course, “mental health” is just their diversionary tactic.
It’s like saying “Santa Claus.” No one should take them seriously.
Urza
Like all conservatives, the racist ones don’t have the strength of their own convictions and are happy to use those that will promote their ideas but would be the first ones taken out once everyone else is gone.
Jackie
@JWR: I saw an interview today with one of Texas’ state senators – Dem – who said he LIKES his guns, but he LOVES his children and family. He was totally disgusted with the *love my guns* GQP.
Elizabelle
@gene108: Which is why it has got to be federal.
And why gun control cannot work, when you can just run guns in from another state. Or move to a state/locale where you can assemble an arsenal, and shoot guns all day in your front yard. (As we learned, in Cleveland, Texas.)
I think we need to shame these gun humpers. Ridicule them. Make it embarrassing for them. Kay had some good comments along those lines in the morning thread. Will go find them now.
gene108
@Raoul Paste:
Works well for conservative white men.
scav
They can officially label as many people as “mentally unstable” as they want, but until they address their selling firearms to any biped without question that is a meaningless designation. Or, are they going to preemptively lock-up all people so designated? Presumably yes, especially if they can get cheap labor out of them and if they’re in charge of what passes for instability (White supremicists no, BLM protesters yes, etc). There’s a long-term solution of a sort. Won’t change much as every other one is judged so quiet and unassuming beforehand, especially in the neighborhoods where they keep insisting nothing like this ever ever happens.
Jackie
Here are the SEVEN OTHER MASS SHOOTINGS that happened THIS WKND:
https://www.rawstory.com/mass-shooting-first-week-may-2023/
Each mass shooting has its own link within the article. President Biden is never going to be able to raise the American Flag back to full staff.😢
Elizabelle
Kay’s comment number 98 on the morning thread.
JWR
Hey, everyone! No worries. Gregg Abbott was at a large gathering in a church where they could all pray! (Pray the guns away?) Say, maybe we could use a mega-mass slaughter inside one of these mega-churches? Would that work? Nah, didn’t think so. That would mean we’re not praying hard enough. (Sorry if my comment is too much, [moderator?], but I am pissed!)
Elizabelle
Lot of good discussion on gun culture in the morning thread. Just search with “gun.” RevRick started off the discussion that Kay replied to.
We will come back to this again and again and again.
A comment from Suzanne on the morning thread:
Elizabelle: And another new face is the Incel or Neo-Nazi who either shoots up, or aspires to shoot up, a public place. This weekend’s outlet mall shooter. The Mass. Air National Guard leaker, with an arsenal in his bedroom.
These are not cool people.
karen marie
@Elizabelle: Sure, “they” can vote on those things but that’s not what you said that I was responding to.
It’s pretty clear that “we” can’t get people who claim to care about other people to vote on anything. See, eg, the 2022 mid terms. If “we” were able to “get other people to vote on this,” Republicans wouldn’t right now control the House.
An ABC poll from this last week reports that 44% of voters would reelect Trump, while only 38% would reelect Biden.
Where are these “people who care about other people” and who is the “we” that’s going to convince them they shouldn’t vote for more death and destruction?
lowtechcyclist
@Immanentize:
I suppose he could turn us all into good little robots. If that’s anyone’s idea of benevolence.
Elizabelle
@karen marie: Hey there. A discussion for another day. Good questions. I am sort of politicked and gunned out at the moment.
Gonna fix some dinner, and peek in again to the Agatha Christie/Dorothy Sayers thread ahead. A locked room and poison sounds so much more appealing.
karen marie
@WaterGirl: I’ve been snacking on the focaccia so I can justify my failure to have it turn out as a proper focaccia. If this is failure, I don’t want to be right.
I’m also out of cookies. So I have to make some tonight, if I can stop fucking around and finish my work early enough. Question is, do I make my brilliant chocolate chip with pecans (secret ingredient, a teaspoon of corn syrup or honey to make them crispy/chewy) or Sally’s iced oatmeal cookies.
I made the oatmeal cookies this past December, and they’re not your typical oat meal cookie. You put the oatmeal through the food processor to reduce some (not all) to oat flour, and it results in a gorgeous, chewy cookie.
Elizabelle
@karen marie: Send me some brownies!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@karen marie:
You’re ignoring all of the other important gains Dems made at the state level in many places. The Republicans were supposed to drown us all in a red wave because of inflation and crime. I admit I believed this was going to happen too. Polling prior to the midterms indicated voters cared about these things more than abortion and democracy. Those polls ended up being wrong. Those polls are worthless, especially this far out for 2024.
karen marie
@Elizabelle: I agree!
karen marie
@Elizabelle: Oh, now there you go – I can make brownies! That will be fast and easy! I’ve got chocolate and walnuts! Whee!
They’re so good frozen. Plus I have vanilla ice cream and chocolate sauce, so I could make myself a little sundae. Mmm.
karen marie
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I should bookmark this so I can wave it in your face when the time comes, or you can wave it in mine.
I’d bet a nickel I’ll be waving it in yours.
evap
The entire front page of the Atlanta paper today was a rant/editorial about Georgia’s awful pro-gun laws. This was in response to the shooting at a medical center in Atlanta a few days ago. The editorial pointed out that the only place in Georgia where you can’t bring a gun is the state capitol building, where the politician meet.
Jackie
@karen marie: Dems did a hell of a lot better in the ’22 Midterms than we dared possible. And after what’s happened since – an epidemic of mass shootings, Red states going rogue with anti-abortion laws, book bannings, the attacks – both physically and through state laws – on the LGBTQ community and Drag Queens… I think Democrats and YOUNG/NEW voters will vote their displeasure on the Party behind all these atrocities en masse.
Jackie
@Jackie: I forgot to add Independents. Most of them are fed up with the direction the GQP is going, too.
Tony G
@OzarkHillbilly: First of all — his name is “Keith Self”??? The writers are really getting lazy. More to the point, if “Mr Self” is a true believer in his religion, then of course he believes that Almighty God micromanages the universe and causes everything to happen — mass shootings, pediatric cancer, torture, napalm –everything. In that case, what, exactly, is the point of prayer? Almighty Good will do whatever “He” wants regardless of who’s saying what prayers. The theology of idiots.
Glidwrith
@Raoul Paste: I noticed when the Shitgibbon was in power, with true genuine tyranny, that all those 2nd Amendment asses were QUITE happy to help out in making it worse.
Manyakitty
@YY_Sima Qian: it’s not you. The race to the bottom is picking up speed.
karen marie
@Jackie: We’ll see. I’ve given up believing in miracles.
Chris T.
@Baud:
I have an evil idea (but please don’t act on it): feed their fear. Tell them that as a liberal, you’re definitely pro mass shooting for two reasons: (1) fewer humans is better for the planet, and (2) this will help you replace them, once they’re all dead. You’re gonna buy more weapons than they can using Soros Bucks and kill ’em all!
Citizen Alan
@RSA: The idea that the Christian God is omnipotent and/or omniscient falls apart just three chapters into Genesis, seeing as how (a) God was unable to foresee Adam and Eve eating the apple after he told them not to, (b) God was unable to intervene and prevent them from eating the apple by any means other than simply telling them not to, (c) God was unable to cleanse them of sin after they ate the apple except by some overcomplicated “incarnate as a man who then dies painfully and gets resurrected” scheme several thousand years after the fact, and (d) God kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden apparently because he was afraid that they, having eaten of the fruit of knowledge and learned about good and evil, might also eat of the tree of life and become immortal “and become like us” (whoever “us” is in that phrase that makes Baptist ministers twitch nervously).
Citizen Alan
@Jackie:
Indeed. It’s still galling to me that despite “the Red Wave,” we would have held the House too if only Blue New York hadn’t screwed the pooch.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris T.: As I’ve stated here before, I have genuine fears that the conservatives of this country are gradually convincing themselves to have a “Day of the Rope” where they just kill us all. With tens of millions of armed and increasingly violent Republicans, if they were really coordinated about their mass shootings they could exterminate us overnight, and we’d be gone before we knew what happened.
But… they don’t seem to be coordinated at all. Maybe they can’t be. The shootings seem to be killing as many of them as of us. Maybe more since most gun deaths are suicides and they seem to be concentrated among white men.