I was at a little convenience store on the stateline throwing down 2 bucks for my idiot tax aka Powerball ticket (that island with capybaras ain’t paying for itself) and the guy in front of me bought a 30 pack of coors, a tastykake, and a carton of cowboy killers (aka Marlboro Reds), and the cashier said “$108” and I blurted out “Jesus Christ.” It wasn’t even for me and I about shat myself.
I had no idea cigarettes and beer were that fucking expensive. No wonder the working class is not feeling the effects of the economy.
For $110 back when I was in the Army, I could go to the class six, get two cartons of smokes, two big bottles of jack daniels, head to the PX and buy a pair of Levi’s, then go across the border to my East German friend’s place (this is after the wall feel), give them that stuff, watch them act like I had just given them the crown fucking jewels, and then stay there and eat and drink and party for FREE for an entire four day pass.
Fucking hell.
On a side note, that is another fucking thing that really infuriates me about the past couple of Republican Presidencies- it’s just destroyed the American brand. Yes, there was always the ugly American shit in some sectors (Fuck you Parisians you’ll never see another dime from me- the French countryside is a different story), but by and large, every where I went they fucking loved us. Their eyes would light up and they would pour a drink and smile and talk about freedom and coca cola and other shit. In the town I was in, Fulda, we were always treated like kings there. Our base brought millions of dollars to the economy, we were young and fit and polite and said “ma’am” and “sir” and tried to speak German and paid for shit in cash and they just fucking loved us. On occasion when someone would get too drunk and get a little rowdy, I’ve seen them not call the police and or protect the drunk and disorderly America from the MP’s should that happen around.
And that was everywhere I went in Europe (except Paris- fuck you guys). Now, they look at us as if we are violent and volatile and racist and gun crazy. Were I to go overseas I’d probably tell everyone I was fucking Canadian, ehh.
Fuck Republicans. They honest to fucking god ruin everyfuckingthing.
War for Ukraine Day 514: Things in Crimea Keep Going Boom
japa21
Hell, in the Chicago area the carton of Marlboros would have run $120.
Baud
Pretty sure that’s just you. They love me overseas.
japa21
Oh, and I am pretty sure you don’t have the accent to pretend to be Canadian.
Redshift
@japa21:
During the Shrub administration people in England would sometimes ask us if we were Canadian, and we’d say yes.
Matt McIrvin
This is why, once an episode of inflation happens, you have some people who will never believe it is over even 30 years after it ends. Because to them, “inflation” means “stuff costs more than I remember”, and those prices aren’t ever going back down all the way to what they were unless there’s a deflationary episode. Which you don’t want.
The great exception, of course, being goods that can become explosively cheap because of technological advances, such as computers or nice TVs.
SpaceUnit
To be fair, I automatically assume everyone is crazy until they can prove otherwise. Just saves time. This country is a looney bin.
mrmoshpotato
@japa21:
Wait. A pack of reds is only $12?
Viva BrisVegas
@Baud: Pretty sure that’s only Staten Island.
Redshift
And TFG is still braying to his cult members that America wasn’t respected before him, and he made us respected, and now we’re not any more because Biden. And despite that being the opposite of every objective measure, they eat it up, because they’re a cult, and also he and they don’t know the difference between being respected and being feared.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
They know of Baud! 20XX!
Hob
I’ve been to Paris and London in the last two years and honestly, I don’t think I got any noticeable side-eye compared to any other time I’ve traveled in the last 30 years. If I had acted like an American tourist asshole stereotype, then I would’ve been treated like one, but I leave that to the professionals.
I think there is a certain amount of “wow, y’all have some bad people and crazy bullshit going on over there” if you were to get into a conversation with someone, but most people don’t really want to get into that; if anything, they’re more motivated to complain about the crazy bullshit they have in their country. I have family in Italy and there’s sometimes some one-upmanship in our mutual complaints about our governments.
Hob
@Hob: Now that I think of it, the only bad-mouthing of America that I heard on those trips was from an American expat, who wanted to make it very clear why they left, and since we pretty much agreed on those points, she just seemed to feel a little sorry for me for still living there.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Baud: don’t you have to wear pants to travel?
H.E.Wolf
I’ll put in a good word for the group of vagrants under a Paris bridge who cheerfully gave me the correct directions to untangle the wrong turn that had landed me in their netherworld.
Come to think of it, the only grouch I met in Paris was a ticket-taker at a museum, and that was a job that would probably make anyone grouchy.
Even the avuncular gentleman who pointed out the typo on the back of my (American-made) shirt with the map of the Paris Métro was cordial and polite.
I’d certainly expected to have an experience more like John Cole’s… so who knows? Maybe I was just lucky on that one trip.
mrmoshpotato
@Redshift:
Hey FDR, Truman, Ike, and JFK! 🖕🖕🖕🖕
What a fat, orange, fascist, traitorous assclown!
Alison Rose
JFC. I had no idea either how expensive cigarettes were but this post made me Google. When I smoked in high school (1994-1998), I could get a pack of Camel Lights (my preferred brand) for I think $3.50, maybe $4? And when we could get someone to go to the specific stores that carried American Spirits, those were I think $5-$6 a pack (but they lasted longer!). I’m glad I quit when I did for the health reasons, but now I’m also glad for financial reasons. Talk about dumb ways to die.
eclare
I’ve been to Paris a couple of times and loved it. The only issue I ever had was when my bf jumped in a cab and immediately started telling the driver where we were going. The cab driver pointedly ignored him, waited for him to finish yapping, and replied politely “bonsoir.”
Luckily my bf got the hint and looked sheepish.
dc
@Hob:
She was an immigrant. Did she think of herself as an immigrant or an expat? I ask because of a video on TikTok about this topic in Mexico. It seems a lot of Americans who’ve moved there for the cost of living insist they are expats, not immigrants. It’s like they can only see the world from the US perspective: immigrants come to the US; expats leave the US. And maybe some racism thrown in there too. And classism, why not?
https://www.tiktok.com/@nochaveznada/video/7258055859920456966?lang=en
Yarrow
Yeah, I dunno. I knew people that sewed Canadian flags on their backpacks in the 1970s because they didn’t want to be identified as Americans. From their stories Americans didn’t seem to be universally loved by people in other countries. It wasn’t just Europe. I’ve certainly been places before Shrub where Americans were, well, not super welcomed.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
I think Baud is considering campaigning in chaps this time. If that’s the case, who needs pants?
BellyCat
And which would they be wrong about?
Yarrow
@dc: The “immigrant vs expat” thing is also an issue for British people who moved to Spain and now can’t stay permanently because of Brexit. They don’t want immigrants in “their country” (UK) but they themselves aren’t immigrants in Spain; they’re expats.
Steve in the ATL
@SpaceUnit:
I learned that as well at an early age. But then half my family are artists….
FastEdD
When I went to the UK I felt like I had to explain, “I’m not one of those assholes.” They were good to us. Spent some time in pubs getting to know locals-once my partner left her purse and one guy ran out in the street to return it to her.
I’m weird though, I actually got to like British food.
way2blue
FWIW. I visited Paris with my daughter in 2008 when she was doing ‘junior year abroad’ at University Grenoble. And I noted a metro stop named ‘Roosevelt’. Pronounced in that lilting French way. My daughter said ‘the French love Roosevelt’. So perhaps they’re not all gauche….
NutmegAgain
My kid spent half a year in Germany in High School. She had her American drivers license, but not old enough to drink. Her house sister in the family where she stayed could legally drink, but wouldn’t get her license for a couple of years. Of course they walked into town to get a beer or two, and then there was some festival where the whole town came out to play. Anyhow, the “learn to drink first, then drive later” theory of teenagers seemed very sensible. Also, in the bosom of the community (so they would be used to young men who had one or two too many.)
SuzieC
I’m going to Italy (Tuscany) in October. How do they feel about Americans?
Suzanne
I don’t know how anyone affords half of this stuff. I see people eat fast food every day, drive gigantic trucks, blow up fireworks, etc.
ETA: And then some of them tell me I’m financially irresponsible for taking student loans to go to college, LMAO.
lollipopguild
@Redshift:Trump and his cult members did not understand that they were being laughed at by people around the world.
Jay
Here the killer is rent.
480 sq ft 1 bedrooms in our building are currently going for $2800 a month.
So, first, last, damage deposit is $6400, plus $500 for each pet, if they allow pets.
That’s three months minimum wage earnings, with every penny saved for the deposit. Monthly rent leaves $327 left over for everything else.
BellyCat
@Suzanne: The trades make more than architects.
ETA: And have no student loan debt.
mrmoshpotato
@Jay: Holy cow!
Suzanne
@BellyCat: No, they don’t. The GCs make more than architects, but the trades (subcontractors) don’t. I sign their pay apps, LOL.
ETA: Almost everyone who works for a general contractor of any size has a college degree. Sometimes in totally unrelated stuff. I have a former colleague with an English degree who is now a high-level cost estimator.
Scout211
The Temecula Valley School board caved. Thank you, Governor Newsom. Link
. . .
Sure
JanJoseph, it wasn’t because of the Governor’s threat to fine your district $1.5 M. No, it couldn’t be that. You probably have that much money in your budget just to throw it away on a f*cking political stand against LGBTQ+ people in California history. Sure.SpaceUnit
@Jay:
Dang. What area?
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
And this is Burquitlam, not Vancouver proper.
Downtown, a similar but smaller 1 bedroom goes now for $4200 a month.
BellyCat
@Suzanne: How many self-employed plumbers and electricians do you know?
dc
@Yarrow: The things we have in common.
SixStringFanatic
@NutmegAgain: I spent five of the most enjoyable years of my life as a teen-aged Army Brat in Germany in the 80’s.
I survived the experience without permanent damage to my liver only because I was young and very resilient.
eclare
@Suzanne:
I know, fast food is ridic! While my power was out this past week, I went through drive-thrus for a few days, and I could not believe the prices! Even for the meal combos. This morning, for my (hopefully) last drive-thru meal for a long time, I got the EggMcMuffin meal and a small milk (for the coffee in my meal), and it cost almost $10.
Alison Rose
@Scout211: LOVE IT. Now I want Newsom to tweet “That’s what I thought, bitches”.
Jay
@SpaceUnit:
Vancouver, BC.
Toronto is just as bad or worse.
Suzanne
@BellyCat: Self-employed plumbers and electricians are not strictly trades, they’re business owners. And relatively few of them are taking home more than $150K.
West of the Rockies
Well, “the ugly American” has long been a thing, but, yeah, the meteoric rise of rightwing toxic masculinity and mean girl shit has really soiled and sullied our national reputation, capped off by Bush the Younger and the Tangerine Turd.
Jay
@Suzanne:
Red Seal here, starts at $50 an hour, and that’s for carpenters*. Union adds more.
With the buildings going up here, it’s 5-7 years employment at the same work site, that’s $120,000 a year, not including overtime.
*framers, really. It’s not like most of them could build a dovetailed hutch with drawers and concealed hinges.
Suzanne
@eclare: So my first job was a McJob. I worked at this McDonald’s that was in downtown Mesa, AZ, near some pretty sketchy neighborhoods. I used to see people come in 5-7 days a week and spend like $7 per meal (and this was the 90s and that horrified me, LOL).
When I first went to college in 1998, SuzMom said I should expect to spend $10 a day on food, given the way the campus meal plans were set up, and I was like, “oh hell no”. I probably spend that much now, but I am now old!
SpaceUnit
@Jay:
Are Canadian cities experiencing the same sort of homeless crisis as we have in the US? I live just a bit west of Denver and it seems like it’s all people talk about anymore. Used to be just in the city, but it’s begun to spread out into the burbs.
Suzanne
@Jay: Yeah, but you’re in a crazy spendy market. The average journeyman tradesperson (who is not an owner) is prolly making $75K around here (Pittsburgh) and closer to $85K in Phoenix. Which is not bad pay, by any means, but I also would not be buying a $50K truck, either.
Omnes Omnibus
I’ve never had a problem in Paris. Then again, I always remembered it was their city and their language. Not everyone does.
Yutsano
I was in Germany in 1995. As far as I could tell everyone I interacted with was very pleasant especially when I spoke German. Most answered in English although I had a long string of German speaking with a young couple who wanted me to switch to English so they could practice and get some advice.
eclare
@Suzanne:
I had no idea how expensive fast food was til last week. My first job was at a Hardee’s, but that was in the 1980’s, and I guess I was oblivious to cost or it was cheaper then.
What horrified me was learning how to replace the grease in the fry vats.
Steeplejack
For what it’s worth, a lifelong friend who married a Frenchman and speaks fluent French told me that Parisians look down on other French people and treat them badly.
BellyCat
@Suzanne: Been practicing architecture since 1989 and don’t know many architects taking home $150K, especially without significant student loans and/or personal ownership of a large firm. Architecture is also far more subject to boom and bust cycles, whereas plumbers and electricians are more resilient, with far, far less educational debt.
I watched 40% of architects get laid off in 2008 (#1 hardest hit profession according to Bureau of Labor) and 95% of architecture firms applied for COVID relief funds in 2020 (AIA statistic).
Jay
@SpaceUnit:
In the Lower Rainland we have had a massive unhoused issue since the Reagan recession, and it has only gotten worse. We get maybe 14 days a year of sub zero temps. As a result, every fall, there is an influx as the unhoused from many other places including small cities across Canada move here to survive the winter.
@Suzanne:
Because all the Cities are booming, ( except some of the Reich Wing Provinces), Covid, etc, there is a labour shortage, so a “carpenter” in a smaller rural city like Kamloops, still get’s $50 an hour.
With the Union jobs, dates to the ’60’s, people working in Port Alberni, got the same wages and benefits as the people in Vancouver. Right now a 3 bedroom, 1 and 1/2 bath in Vancouver, starts at $1.5 million. Port Alberni, $157,000. Vancouver was always way more expensive. In the late 50’s, $5.6k for a house vs $800 in Port Alberni.
On the other hand, work in Port Alberni, or other small towns, is more precarious.
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
As I’ve stated here before I spent a fair amount of time in Europe in the early 70s when in the USN and the people were better than a lot of places in the USA. Sure there were some issues but I’ve seen more issues in the US than in Europe and I’ve traveled (worked) in 46 states, lived in 3 of them. People gave us rides in their cars and mostly treated us fine. There was the attempted assault with switchblades in Naples but even that was resolved reasonably.
laura
@Jay: hey, is that near Coquitlam, Richmond or Surrey? Spouse’s cousins were all firefighters in those parts, as was his Uncle who also was the Mayor of Burnaby- and has the Sports Centre named after him. When Uncle Bill died, his Memorial service was held there.
Suzanne
@BellyCat: Every architect I know at principal level in a firm over 30 people is pulling down at least $130K, and some of those are in low-cost markets. All the Californians I know are making bank, but it all goes to housing costs. But it takes a while to get to principal level, at least 10 years. The junior staff all seem to make crap money, though. I tell them to change jobs a lot.
But the tradespeople I see are not beating the architects. They’re doing fine, but the GCs are making all the money. Definitely driving the nicest cars to the job site.
Soprano2
@Yarrow: I went to England and parts of Europe in 1980 and 1982. They were college choir trips. What I got from people was that they liked Americans but didn’t like our government. I never had a problem in Paris, but I was a young college girl. One French guy did follow me around a mall; he wanted to stand too close to me for my comfort.
BellyCat
@Suzanne: Agreed about GC’s. But risk does equal reward. Given that Design/Build is the fastest growing market segment in AEC, one would think more architects would be interested given, you know, the whole Master Builder legacy, which was abandoned some 200-ish years ago.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I went to college a a pre-med. Ended up doing what I started out at 12 yrs old – making molds for plastic products. Owned the company longer than my dad. Till the Northridge earthquake pretty much wiped me out. I’ve worked in professional sports and owned a bicycle shop and built titanium bicycles and then went back to working in a machine shop. Most people I’ve known for a long time didn’t do what they went to college to learn. They found out they didn’t like the field, or like me that went back to college after something like surviving the USN and realized that they would be in their mid 30s before their career really got off the ground and in debt for most of their life. But I gave it a shot and during that time also worked for 4 yrs as a mental health counselor. Thought I’d try to find out what it was like having patients. It was different than I thought. Not bad, just different.
frosty
When I did my Railpassing through Europe in the 70s I got so pissed at all the Canadian flags on backpacks that I found an American flag and sewed it on mine. Fuck ‘‘em for bragging that they’re not from the USA.
Re: Paris. They ignore you if you don’t speak French. But the Quebecois? Parisians turned their noses up at the rough colonial accent.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Then again, I always remembered it was their city and their language.
The number one point to remember. Something along the lines of don’t shit on the carpet in someone else’s home. (or your’s either!)
A number of Americans don’t seem to get that concept.
Jay
@laura:
Burquitlam is in Coquitlam, but it’s the part pushed up tight against the border with Burnaby and parts of New Westminster and Port Moody. When I cross the street, (Clarke Road), walk three small blocks west and cross North Road*, I am in Burnaby.
Suzanne
@BellyCat: Agreed…. I used to do a lot of design-build, and I hated it at the time. (Really more build-design than design-build.) But I am willing to get back to it. I am currently on a project team in which we are the AOR and our partner is a high-profile design firm, and I am like ehhhhhhhh. Making every decision takes so forking long. Design-build is snappy, and I like that.
Jay
@frosty:
Back in the late 60’s and 70’s, it was hard to buy a good quality low cost frame backpack in Canada with out a Canadian Flag on it. At Military Surplus stores you could get a rucksack, but that had no frame, or a frame pack with no bag.
Jay
@frosty:
Quebecqois look down on you, if you don’t speak their dialect. On the North Shore of New Brunswick, each town has it’s own dialect.
I was an A student in New Brunswick, but they were teaching functional Quebecqois,
When we moved to BC,I flunked out because it wasn’t Parisienne French.
Quaker in a Basement
I have a hard time understanding why anyone smokes anymore. But then again, first time I quit, it was because the price of a pack had gone up to 65 cents.
mrmoshpotato
@Jay:
W?
T?
A?
F?!
mrmoshpotato
@Alison Rose:
LMAO! Yes please!
Another Scott
@Jay:
Bargain! Here’s a 2 BR for $20,000 a month.
That’s in Canadian money, though. XE.com says it’s only US$15,125 a month.
Cheers,
Scott.
Honus
@Suzanne: the problem with design-build is that there’s a lot of people doing it that can’t do either.
Jay
@Another Scott:
It’s Coal Harbour, doesn’t say if it comes with a yacht slip in the marina for a 165ft small yacht.
Suzanne
@Honus: The problem I always had with it was that the GCs (who were prime) never knew how much anything would cost prior to giving direction. So they’d tell us to draw something with a high level of precision so they could send it out to their trade partners for pricing, then find out it cost too much, so then we’d hit them with additional services for redrawing. Lather, rinse, repeat. That was when I learned that nobody in big national GC firms actually builds anything.
The project that drove me to quit a job was a design-build project in which the client (a healthcare investor group) had very high aspirations but a fairly modest budget, and the GC (a big regional) we were working for would not tell them that they had a misalignment…. that they either needed more money or a simpler/smaller building. Every design decision was agony. Every meeting was awful.
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
Yup. My last employer couldn’t get staff for their Delta store, so it was closed.
The Owner bitched to me about that one time.
I pointed out that you couldn’t get there by transit, and $20 an hour doesn’t allow one to insure a car.
scav
@Steeplejack: For that matter, many if not all regions of French insist there’s is the only proper French accent, let alone cuisine and fromage etcetera. Personally had far less trouble with the Parisians the year l lived in Ile de France than the ferociously insular Bordelais a different year. But there’s always an element of luck in finding the right entrée into local society over and beyond not acting like a just speak louder and ignore local polite norms, cater to me tourist.
Jaybird
@dc: That is super weird abut not identifying as immigrants – when we lived in Mexico, we were literally on an immigrant visa (FM2), and we were, at the time, planning to stay. Expats, my ass. We were moving to Mexico.
dc
@Jaybird:
Even if your plan is to stay for a few years to work, as many Mexican immigrants to the US, you’re still an immigrant. These “expats” wouldn’t make that distinction for immigrants coming to the US, ones who plan to stay forever versus ones who come for a few years.
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: It has been decades since I was in France, but back then they were always kind to me with my atrocious French. They knew I was trying.
My sister, with superior language skills has a different take on it. She is fluent in French and Mandarin. Unlike me, she had French in school kindergarten through high school, often with French native speakers. She started Mandarin in college.
French people will always correct your accent or your grammar because they love their language. It’s not to be obnoxious. It is to help you do better. Chinese people will not correct you since they do not want to be rude. If small children laugh at you you know you screwed up. The adults will say nothing.
The French approach is much more helpful for foreigners trying to learn the language.
Juice Box
@SuzieC: A lot of Americans have Italian grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. Not surprisingly, a lot of Italians have American aunts, uncles, cousins and grandchildren. American culture; muscle cars, Route 66, movie stars, sports figures, “baskets”, etc. are also popular. Generally, the Italians are pretty friendly and sociable as long as you’re outside of the big cities. Rome and Milan are like Paris or New York or any other big city — impatient. In the south, however, if you’re puzzling over something like the parking machine, someone will be eager to help you. Not too many people speak English outside of the tourist areas.
Amusingly, Dr. Fauci and Nancy Pelosi are often referred to in the news as “italo-americano Anthony Fauci” and “itala-americana Nancy Pelosi”. I’ve also been asked what I think about Ron DeSantis.
Tehanu
@H.E.Wolf: I was in Paris in 1969 and people were cold and unfriendly, even when (maybe especially when) I tried to speak in my schoolgirl French. Went again in 1998 and it seemed completely different; everyone was friendly and helpful and polite. I have heard that the French govt. had a big campaign to improve tourist relations because of the fact that Paris is the number one tourist destination in the world; all I can say is, if that’s true, it worked!
sab
@Tehanu: I was there in 1975. Other Americans I was with said they will be unfriendly. They weren’t , and my French was appalling.
Hob
@dc: To be clear, “expat” was my own fairly arbitrary choice of word to convey that this was an American who had moved to London and decided to stay. Of course from a Londoner’s perspective she is an immigrant. My comment wasn’t intended as criticism, and I already said I felt her point of view was fair.
satby
@japa21: actually, he could pass.
Matt McIrvin
On my only visit to Paris (well, two visits but they were only a couple of weeks apart on the same trip) I found that Parisians really liked it when you opened with your bad French and let them correct you and switch to English. It put them in the Parisian comfort zone
I’ve spent much more time in Quebec than in France, so I have more experience there, but of course the dialect they speak is very different from what I learned in school.
vigilhorn
We rented a car when we went to Athens (Greece, not Georgia) this spring and the young woman at the desk asked if we were blue or red. We had a great conversation once she learned we were pro-choice. She knew more about American politics than half the people I know.
Jharp
Back when I was in High School (mid 70’s) I had friends who were coon hunters.
The limit was 4 and for a big one the selling price was $25.
That $25 would buy you 50 packs of cigarettes.
Or even better, 12 big raccoon pelts would pay for a quarters tuition at The Ohio State University.
Chief Oshkosh
YMMV, but I’ve not had the anti-American treatment at all. Business used to take me to France, Spain, and Portugal quite a bit. The schedule has cooled since the pandemic, but recent trips have been Madrid, Paris, and Nice. No problems at all professionally and socially.
I’ve found Parisians to be great. Just always say “bon jour” (or other appropriate phrase) when you enter an establishment and generally all will be well. I occasionally walk into a room and announce “Oui, je suis Américaine!” Generally cracks them up as I couldn’t look more of a doofus American if I tried.
Burnspbesq
The key to Paris is to dust off your high-school French. They’ll be too busy laughing to cop their usual attitude.