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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Open Thread: Can We Afford to Dump Krysten Sinema?

Open Thread: Can We Afford to Dump Krysten Sinema?

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I really like Gallego, but (so) I don’t trust my instincts on a competition between him and Sinema. On the positive side, the lady is doing her absolute best to piss off the Democrats who gave her a chance to grift the big-time donors, so…


My twitter routes are deeply, deliberately partisan, but it includes a lot of dissatisfaction…

And then, of course, there’s the (predicted) GOP candidate!… who’s anathema to a lot of not-completely MAGAt Repubs. *Two* crazy quirky ladies enter, only one leaves…

Reader Interactions

88Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    It would be sweet not to have to rely or Sinema and Manchin.Ā  We have other conservative Dem Senators in the caucus, but they don’t seem flaky or showboaty.

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The Speaker of the House is from New York?Ā  When did Bakersfield make the trans continental move?

  6. 6.

    Immanentize

    Sinema geography translation:

    “New York is filled with Jews and nig[CLANG!]”*

    *Mel Brooks is such a friggin Antifa genius.

  7. 7.

    Roger Moore

    Polls increasingly show a Sinema run currently helping the *Democrats* as she siphons away more of the Republican-leaning Independents. Whether that holds (and whether she runs), I have absolutely no idea, but it’s one to watch.

    That makes perfect sense to me.Ā  What it says to me more than anything is that the Democrats are more unified and coherent as a party than the Republicans.Ā  That said, I expect Sinema’s Republican votes to dry up as the election gets closer.Ā  There may be some Republicans who will toy with voting for her because they don’t like Mark Lamb, but I think they’ll give up on that idea once they realize voting their conscience might help the Democrat win.

  9. 9.

    Roger Moore

    @West of the Rockies:

    I’m willing to tolerate a lot more out of Manchin; he’s a hell of a lot better than the most plausible alternative.Ā  For Sinema, the most plausible alternative in Gallego, who looks better and better the more Sinema plays the prima dona.

  10. 10.

    Ishiyama

    The proper question is: Can we afford NOT to dump Sinema? For God’s sake, fight for something!

  11. 11.

    kindness

    The more reputable polls show Gallego in first, Lake in second and Sinema way back in 3rd place.Ā  Who is going to vote for her?Ā  Not any Democrats.

  12. 12.

    Geminid

    We can’t dump Kyrsten Sinema because she has already dumped herself. She runs a consistent 3rd in polling of three way Arizona Senate races. Arizonans know her well, and I don’t see how she can turn those numbers around. I suspect there’s a 50-50 chance that Sinema won’t even try to defend her seat.

    Maybe the No Labels people will pick her as their candidate for President. I’m sure she and they can agree on what principles they don’t have.

  14. 14.

    geg6

    I canā€™t wait until I donā€™t have to think about this insipid, showboating asshole. Ā Go Gallego!

  15. 15.

    CaseyL

    “Can we afford to dump Krysten Sinema?” seems to be the wrong question.

    “Can we afford NOT to dump Krysten Sinema” seems a more pertinent question.

    She left the Democratic Party – after, like others before her, only joining it for convenient political campaign reasons.Ā  If she ever had any integrity (oh, I crack myself up) she sold it long ago.Ā  Who are her supporters? Hedge fund people and Republicans?Ā  Fuck that shit.

    Gallego seems like a good candidate.Ā  IIRC, he had some bobbles early on (not a particularly good public speaker) but has improved since then.

  18. 18.

    HumboldtBlue

    @NotMax:
    Hakeem Jeffries is now speaker, he’s from NYC.ā€‹

    No he’s not, you dumbass.

    @Roger Moore:Ā ā€‹

    Manchin is now making noises he may switch to the GOP. He’s gonna get wrecked by Jim Justice in the Senate race.

  20. 20.

    Geminid

    @West of the Rockies: I think Manchin’s a goner too. Polls show Governor Justice with a very big lead over him. They are both well known, and West Virginians seem to have made up their minds as to whom they like. And don’t like; Manchin is way underwater in his favorability rating.

  22. 22.

    smith

    We will likely be bidding a fond farewell to both Sinema and Manchin after the next election, the latter because his likely opponent is a strong candidate in WV. Our problem, in addition to making sure Gallego is elected, will be to find a way to replace Manchin somewhere else.

  24. 24.

    Immanentize

    @HumboldtBlue: huh? Have you been dipping into the “Blue” tonight?

    Last I looked — Jeffries in Minority Leader. K. McCarthy is Speaker.

    Or are you just paying some wishamony?

  26. 26.

    Kent

    Can we afford to dump Krysten Sinema?

    What kind of question is that?Ā  She quit the Democratic party and won’t be on the primary ballot as a Democrat.Ā  Actual Democrats will be.Ā  What are Democrats supposed to do.Ā  Write in Sinema on their primary ballots?Ā  Sheesh.

    She can decide to run as a third party candidate or not.Ā  But regardless of what she does, there will be an actual Democrat and an actual Republican already in the race.

  27. 27.

    piratedan

    those first two polls cited have no real value imho, because neither figure in Kari Lake’s expected arrival in the field and she will be …. polarizing.Ā  Lamb and Wright will need to wrestle the nomination from Lake first and there is STILL a decided schism in the AZ GOP and there’s not a lot of cash in the coffers.Ā  The reason for that is due to all of the wingnut election challenges that have failed, lawsuits cost money and they’ve spent a shitpotful of it with zero success.Ā  The top of the party leadership is solidly wingnut, but the money has backed more “chamber of commerce types” (Karin Robsen) who were narrowly defeated by Lake in the Governor primary during the last general and there’s a lot of grumbling from those folks who plainly state that the total wingnut puritans can’t get elected.

    Naturally, the wingnuts don’t want to hear that.Ā  So while an only modestly untethered from reality candidate may have a chance, when you’ve achieved political orbit, the soccer mom’s stay away or vote Dem.Ā  With Sinema, she may get those votes but there are not enough of them to win overall.Ā  Sinema has burned her bridges with the Dem party and is happily flouncing away as the star of her own show and she may just be running to grift and set up her nest egg for corporate prostitution (not any different than a LOT of polititians to be honest).

    I really like Gallego’s chances as the wingnuts have done a great job of disenfranchsing the money guys from power, pissed off the moderates and the Dems are hungry, as we came close to taking a lot more spots in this gerrymandered state level offices, and COVID killed a lot of olds here.

  29. 29.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Immanentize:

    Completely sober! I even took a nap today!

    Fuck it, now I’m gonna smoke a bowl.

    Manchin is not gonna beat Justice either way. I don’t see any way he wins as a Dem.

  30. 30.

    New Deal democrat

    Short answer to your question: Yes.

    Biden and the Democrats are handling this perfectly. Biden and her Senate Democrats are being nice to Sinema, patting her on the head and saying, ā€œNice doggie!ā€

    Meanwhile they are applying no pressure at all on Gellego to drop out. He got in early, the polls all show Sinema coming in behind him, with some having her in 3rd place. The longer that goes on, the more her remaining supporters will feel ok to dump her, and the more pressure she will feel to exit the race.

    So far, so good. Plus, every now and then it really is necessary to show you shouldnā€™t be crossed by taking a scalp.

  32. 32.

    Ruckus

    We need to replace her with Ruben Gallego.

    We need to replace any legislator holding more than 0.000001% mega rethuglican concepts, lack of ideas, any demonstrable actually stupidity or selfishness, or anyone who thinks the world revolves around the stick stuck all the way up their ass.

  34. 34.

    CaseyL

    @Geminid:Ā Ā  @Immanentize:

    Manchin may be thinking that WV voters will love him again if he switches parties. That all they dislike about him is the fact that he is a Democrat.

    But I think Justice is genuinely popular in WV, and it could be that Manchin is genuinely unpopular, on a personal basis and not just because of his (current) Party affiliation.

  36. 36.

    Scout211

    Manchin said he wasĀ thinking about becoming an independent.

    He isĀ thinkingĀ about it. Ā Nice way to try to play both sides, Joe. Ā Ugh.

    Sen. Joe Manchin, in an interview with a West Virginia radio station, said Thursday that he has ā€œabsolutelyā€ thought about becoming an independent, one of his strongest statements yet in his flirtation with exiting the Democratic Party.

    After criticizing the Biden’s administrationā€™s implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act, which he helped write, and slamming President Joe Biden for ā€œplayingā€ to the Democratic base, Manchin said he has considered leaving the party.

    ā€œI want to be able to speak honestly about, basically, the extremes of the Democrat and Republican Party that is harming our nation,ā€ Manchin told host Hoppy Kercheval.

  38. 38.

    Sloegin

    It’s amazing how many people in and out of Congress don’t know or forget the Harry Truman quote:

    ā€œGiven the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.ā€

  40. 40.

    Geminid

    @gwangung: If Jim Justice is the 51st vote for a Republican Majority Leader, I’ll miss Joe Manchin a lot. But if Democrats retain control of the Senate, Justice might not have so bad an impact. He’s a former Democrat and a relatively pragmatic guy. Policy-wise, he could be a lot like Manchin except with an R after his name. Justice seems fairly popular in his home state and I don’t think he’ll have to fear a primary challenger in 2030.

  41. 41.

    hells littlest angel

    Sinema is only gonna get votes from people who are so stupid they don’t know where the Speaker of the House is fromĀ  — you know, Republicans.

  42. 42.

    Shalimar

    Is dumping Sinema even debatable?Ā  My understanding of Arizona polling is that she has zero chance of getting re-elected.Ā  So backing her in her independent bid is handing the seat to the Republican.Ā  Democrats should back whoever wins the Democratic primary, I assume Gallego.Ā  Whether Sinema runs or not is her choice and shouldn’t influence the Democratic choice.

  43. 43.

    Mai Naem mobileI

    I don’t think Sinema is running again.Ā  She is a politician and she sees the polls. On top of that she’s a grifter. She can go get a big $$$ teevee gig and/or a lobbying gig. Maybe if she hadn’t been going on so many billionaire junkets and triathlons, and spent more time in Arizona, Sinema wouldn’t have misread the direction of the state as bad as she has. The permanent job was hers for the taking. She screwed herself.Ā  Gallego on the other hand is becoming a better candidate. I feel a lot more confident about him than I did six months ago.

  45. 45.

    Mai Naem mobileI

    @Geminid: i haven’t looked into it but I believe Justice has some kind of scandal that’s being looked into. I don’t think its some massive scandal but there’s a small chance that might end up allowing Manchin to hang onto the seat. Manchin pisses me off but I at least understand his position. Sinema is just an attention ho.

  46. 46.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mai Naem mobileI: Manchin pisses me off but I at least understand his position. Sinema is just an attention ho.

    This has been my take on the two of them for quite a while now.

  48. 48.

    eclare

    Even if NY is getting FEMA money because NY has prominent officials in the House and Senate, isn’t that what elected people areĀ supposed to do?Ā  Look out for their constituents?Ā  I don’t know what Senator got a naval installation in Indiana, but whoever it was wasĀ good.

  49. 49.

    El Muneco

    @Scout211: “the extremes of the Democrat and Republican Party that is harming our nation”

    He’s already gone if he’s slandering his own party with terminology.

  51. 51.

    Suzanne

    Kari Lake is a nice present to us.

    I still maintain that AZ is winnable, maybe even favorable, for non-MAGA Republicans. But as time goes on, it appears that they are not going to un-shit this bed!

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The Speaker of the House is from New York?Ā  When did Bakersfield make the trans continental move?

    Maybe she thinks that Bakersfield is on some special earthquake fault line that can vault it onto the East Coast.

  55. 55.

    Suzanne

    @Mai Naem mobileI:

    I donā€™t think Sinema is running again.Ā  She is a politician and she sees the polls. On top of that sheā€™s a grifter. She can go get a big $$$ teevee gig and/or a lobbying gig. 

    Agree. I think she’s brand-building for a media gig. Sarah Palin is her closest analog. Sinema is smarter than Palin, but smart doesnā€™t make anybody any money.

    One thing to note: I volunteered for years for many AZ pols. Lots of phone calls and canvassing and postcards, etc. I did a few shifts for Sinema. She is the only one I ever volunteered for who never came out to shake hands or say thank you.

  56. 56.

    CaseyL

    @eclare:Ā ā€‹
    At least he has a dog!

    Most GOP polls aren’t nearly human enough for that.

    One thing I do appreciate about Justice is, during the pandemic he put out a PSA telling people to wear a mask. (He also slipped a little, almost saying “Wear the fucking mask,” or something along those lines. Gotta love that.)

  58. 58.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Scout211: ā€œI want to be able to speak honestly about, basically, the extremes of the Democrat and Republican Party that is harming our nation,ā€ Manchin told host Hoppy Kercheval.

    It sounds like Joey Mansion is looking for a Third Way to run…lol

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    @eclare: In addition to the ubiquitous Babydog, Justice has two Boston Terriers. I’d rather have Manchin in the Senate than Justice, even though Manchin is a maddening sumbitch. But if I had to sit next to one of them on a transcontinental flight, I’d choose Justice for the dog convo.

  61. 61.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I say goodbye to this manipulative weathervane. Her only true love and interest is her net worth. Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a good paycheck for her somewhere and sheā€™s got a nice little retirement package thanks to Arizona voters and us taxpayers.

  62. 62.

    Eolirin

    Justice hasn’t won the primary yet.

    I think Manchin’s toast, especially if Justice is his opponent, but if Mooney wins maybe he can pull it out as a Democrat. And I have no idea what the primary electorate will do.

    We need Gallego to win, and to hold Montana and Ohio. We can afford to lose Manchin if we do that. Montana worries me the most. I really wish we had taken Wisconsin and/or NC. Both were heartbreakingly close. If we had, we wouldn’t have to worry about this cycle that much or the next one. We always seem to come up just short of where we need to be to be able to breathe a little.

  63. 63.

    trollhattan

    WTAF?

    Three lawyers for Southwest Airlines must attend a “religious liberty training” course after a judge ruled the company disregarded his order in a religious discrimination case.

    The judge sided with a flight attendant in May who said she had been fired for expressing her opposition to abortion. On Tuesday, the judge said the airline “didn’t come close” to complying with the ruling at the time.

    Southwest said it would appeal the latest order.

    The company’s lawyers have been told to attend a course run by the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), a conservative Christian legal-advocacy group. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, has said the ADF is an “anti-LGBTQ hate group”.

    The airline appealed the original judgement when the flight attendant, Charlene Carter, was awarded $5.1m (Ā£3.99m) and also got her job back. She claimed she was fired after she called the trade union president “despicable” for attending the 2017 Women’s March in Washington DC.

    Southwest and the union said Ms Carter wrote offensive posts on Facebook and harassed the union president in direct messages. A jury in Dallas, Texas ultimately found that the airline had violated her right to religious free speech.

    Southwest was then ordered to tell employees that it “may not discriminate against… flight attendants for their religious practices and beliefs, including – but not limited to – those expressed on social media and those concerning abortion”.

    In his highly critical 29-page order, Judge Starr said the airline “didn’t come close to complying” with this.

    He ordered a new, verbatim, statement to be sent to employees, and in his ruling included the Merriam-Webster dictionary definitions of “may,” “does” and “tolerate”.

    The judge, who was appointed by former President Donald Trump, said the company behaved as if its policy limiting what staff can say was more important than federal free speech law.

    It was also ordered to pay the flight attendant’s legal costs.

    I’m-a go out on a skinny limb and guess “judge Starr” is some evil offspring of Kenneth, who is still fucking dead.

  64. 64.

    Steeplejack

    Women’s World Cup: Spain-Netherlands quarterfinal live on Fox (broadcast) now. Interesting programming choice.

  65. 65.

    Scout211

    @trollhattan: Southwest plans to file an appeal.Ā Link

    Southwest AirlinesĀ on Tuesday said it will appeal a Texas federal judgeā€™s unusual order requiring three of its senior lawyers to attend ā€œreligious liberty trainingā€ by a prominent conservative Christian legal group.

    The airline in a statement confirmed that it would file an appeal one day after U.S. District Judge Brantley Starr said the lawyers had undermined his earlier ruling in a religious bias case by Southwest flight attendant Charlene Carter.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    I was surprised when I saw this today – AZCentral.com:

    President Joe Biden hands the pen to Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, I-Ariz., after signing a proclamation designating the Baaj Nwaavjo I’Tah Kukveni – Ancestral Footprints of the Grand Canyon National Monument at the Red Butte Airfield on Aug. 8, 2023, in Tusayan, Ariz.

    She needs to go, but Joe probably needs her vote for a few things he wants coming up.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  69. 69.

    FelonyGovt

    @Mai Naem mobileI: Her decision to leave the Democratic Party seems like a serious miscalculation if she wanted to run again. On the other hand, it was a not-so-subtle signal to her fat cat pals that she has no ethics.

  72. 72.

    Cameron

    Any way if getting her to run as a Republican?Ā  A Lake-Lamb-Sinema primary matchup would be highly entertaining.Ā  (No, it wouldn’t be any good for the country, but…..)

  75. 75.

    piratedan

    @Cameron: doesn’t fit her “image” of an iconoclastic independent political voice.Ā  She’s the perfect “no labels” candidate, because there is no label, only a price tag.

  78. 78.

    Jinchi

    I can’t believe Sinema would let herself be a spoiler.

    She’ll drop out if she thinks she’s going to cost Kari Lake the election.

  79. 79.

    Sally

    @Jackie: No I did not. Ā Like the First Crime Family, I forgot him

    They are all so different as to be almost unrecognisable, especially the males.

  80. 80.

    kindness

    Manchin has no chance in WV.Ā  He only won his last race (by 3%) because there were two right wingers splitting the vote against him.Ā  Republicans won’t let that happen again.

  83. 83.

    cain

    1. I find it annoying that we are again teethering on flipping the senate. Can’t we get a break?
  84. 84.

    TriassicSands

    @NotMax:

    I have been trying to figure out WTF she was talking about. Jeffries is from NY, but he’s not the Speaker of the House. The Speaker is from California now, but before this Congress, she, Nancy Pelosi, was also from California and surely every devout Democrat-hater in the country knew that.

    Listening to Sinema, a U.S. senator, I thought I was hearing a typically ill-informed American voter speaking. Lots of Americans have no idea who the leaders in the House and Senate are. I guess Sinema is “representing” the ignorant. She is sooooo creepy. Wouldn’t it have been nice if the first openly bisexual Senator had been a decent role model?

    @Roger Moore:

    The thing about both Manchin and Sinema, as egregious as they can be, both support the Democrats far more than any Republican ever would. Of course, they are most likely to “stray” when the stakes are highest, since that is when they have the most bargaining power.

    We all know what Manchin stands for: Himself and his personal wealth (based on coal and fossil fuels). What does Sinema stand for? Certainly herself, and like Manchin, not her constituents. Other than that and all the sucking up to big money she’s done, I don’t know what she really believes. From the Green Party to Democrat (to get elected) to Independent (to sell her herself to the highest bidder?), she’s a flake. Manchin isn’t a flake, he simply corrupt and out for himself. It is harder to make sense of someone as seemingly frivolous as Sinema. Both of them have absurd reasons for refusing to end the filibuster and neither one of them has ever made any sense to me when explaining why they vote for or oppose an issue.

    The country would be better off without either of them, but the Democrats have a much better chance of replacing Sinema with a Democrat than they have of getting any Democrat elected in W. Va.

    Final question: Can Joe forgo the attention that being No Label’s candidate for president will get him? He claims he won’t run unless he thinks he would win and I can’t imagine a scenario where that is even a remote possibility.

    Since 1892, only Teddy Roosevelt, a former president has gotten more than 20% of the vote (27.4%). Ross Perot didn’t even get to 19%.

  85. 85.

    TriassicSands

    @Sure Lurkalot: Her (Sinema) only true love and interest is her net worth.

    Oh, c’mon, what about her wardrobe? Yeah, it depends, in part, on her net worth, but she often looks like she shops in second hand clothing stores or yard sales, so she ought to be able to get bargains.

  86. 86.

    Shalimar

    @Sally: “In real life I ordered her from Ukrainiandolls.com, but it turns out she’s not Ukrainian, she’s some other kind of Russian.”

  88. 88.

    Ericblair

    @FelonyGovt: I think it was a blackmail attempt that failed. She’d have lost the Dem primary for sure, that must have been obvious even to her. The trick was to go indy, so the Dems couldn’t run a candidate against her as it would split the non-GOP vote and hand the seat to the goopers. So she avoids the primary and wins. Checkmate!

    Except she ended up far more unpopular than she counted on, the Dems will run a popular candidate who polls to win outright, and Sinema is splitting the GOP vote because people hate being stabbed in the back.

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