Bill and I were watching sports on TV yesterday when word reached us that DeSantis had suspended his campaign. We high-fived as if celebrating a touchdown. Ever since, I’ve been trying to figure out what it means, if anything. But I keep coming back to this: Well, that was weird.
DeSantis and his epic flameout of a campaign are and were weird, but not in the stereotypical Florida sense of the word, e.g., weird like throwing a live gator through a drive-thru window.
Rather, DeSantis is a signpost in this weird moment in our political history, when buttoned-down Freedom Caucus-adjacent fascists are trying to co-opt lumpy Orange Sauron’s fake populism to accrue political power. Sometimes it works. J.D. Vance is now a U.S. Senator, for example.
And sometimes it doesn’t work, Ron DeSantis being the latest cautionary tale. But the thing is, he and J.D. and Senator Hawley, etc., are a type, and while it’s right and proper to celebrate when one of them flames out, I think we need an epic face-plant by their master to reduce the danger they pose to the republic to a manageable level.
For my money, David Roth at The Defector described Trump’s appeal and the type of scrawny, elitist fascist who hopes to leverage Orange Sauron for power as well as anyone ever has:
In place of conservatism’s worn nostrums about freedom-to and freedom-from, there’s just retributive violence and impunity; a gun brandished as an argument-ender at the supermarket or a truck accelerating toward a pod of protestors; the absolute right to turn in anyone who offends or just crowds you, and state agents standing by to do the dirty work from there. It is about who calls the cops on whom, and what they expect the cops to do when they arrive; its adherents are cop-callers and the self-deputized.
The challenge for the cynics and gremlins and adult libertarians running against Trump for the GOP nomination is that they also have to promise to do all this while, crucially, not being Trump himself—to sell the same rancid fantasy in a more compelling and presentable way than the dumpy golf priss that the fantasy’s adherents have made its hero and deliverer. How would one do that?
The ambitious aspiring genocidaires around Trump, who want to remake every institution around those vicious impulses, lack both Trump’s demented gravitas and his curdled charisma, but they have the parasitic instinct to know that he can get them where they want to go. They would still be around government if it weren’t for Trump, working in some vile congressman’s office or think tank and doing their level best to shovel as much hurt as possible onto the people they hate the most, but they would be nowhere near as close to being able to do it at the scale to which they aspire. They’re loyal to Trump in the same inextricable and fundamentally unreasoning way that a symptom might be considered loyal to a disease.
Erstwhile and once again Trump loyalist Ron DeSymptom ran a lousy campaign, but it was hamstrung from the beginning because the disease was also in the race. Voters who crave the disease — to extend the metaphor, let’s call it syphilis — aren’t going to vote for “genital lesions” when “syphilis” is right there on the same ballot. It really is that simple, I think.
Anyhoo, my hope is that his humiliating flop will end Ron DeSantis’s career in national politics forever. You never know, but I think that’s a real possibility because DeSantis is a peevish dick, and now that he’s stumbled, everyone is giving into the impulse to kick a fallen bully. Here’s a sample analysis in CNN:
Iowa revealed how ineffective his effort had been all along — his ground game, his message, his strategy, all exposed as a paper tiger and turning his candidacy into a punchline in Republican circles.
“Historic disaster,” said one veteran Republican fundraiser once hopeful of DeSantis’ chances. “JV team.”
Veteran GOP strategists Curt Anderson and Alex Castellanos called it the “Worst Republican Presidential Campaign Ever” in a blistering audit written for Politico that was devoured Friday by DeSantis allies and enemies alike.
Here’s Orlando Sentinel columnist Scott Maxwell on the ignominious ending of DeSantis 2024:
It’s hard to overstate just how epic this collapse was.
Less than a year ago, Ron DeSantis was the next big thing. Wall Street loved him. So did the GOP faithful.
Polls suggested he was more popular among Republicans than Donald Trump. And just eight months ago, DeSantis had twice as much campaign cash.
But Ron DeSantis had a problem: Ron DeSantis.
The more he campaigned, the less people liked him — namely members of his own party. He was awkward, entitled and angry.
Anger is actually a quality some people crave in their politicians. But DeSantis was angry about weird things — like Disney World…
And by the time DeSantis tucked his tail and ate his own words Sunday, endorsing the very man he’d spent weeks debasing, he’d managed to do something his supporters never imagined — damage his own brand.
See, many politicians mount their first campaign for president without really expecting to win. Instead, they just want to introduce themselves to voters and boost their name ID for the next time. But DeSantis managed to leave the race worse than he started.
The Miami Herald editorial board noticed too (via HuffPo):
“It’s not just that he was steamrolled by Donald Trump,” the newspaper wrote. “DeSantis never appeared to want to save the GOP. He was more interested in making it a more ravenous, angrier and intolerant party. That worked for Trump, but didn’t work for the governor with all the charisma of burned toast.”
But while DeSantis’ campaign may be over, the damage he has done to Florida remains:
“Without his political ambitions, there likely wouldn’t be ‘Don’t say gay,’ woke wars and the waste of state resources to fight meaningless battles against drag queen bars. These were efforts to appeal to Trump’s base but his supporters refused to leave the former president, especially after he was indicted.”
The newspaper said DeSantis could’ve made a play for a “more reasonable” form of conservatism to appeal to a broader range of Americans.
“Instead, he banked on exploiting divisions in our country. As he bows out, DeSantis leaves the Republican Party exactly as he found it, under Trump’s dominance,” the newspaper said.
Yep. And now he’s coming back to his day job, God help us. DeSantis ended his campaign on the same glitch-ridden platform where he launched it — the former Twitter — and his speech concluded with ominous words for those of us in the Sunshine State:
While this campaign has ended, the mission continues. Down here in Florida, we will continue to show the country how to lead.
We’ll see about that. Now that DeSantis has been exposed as a paper tiger, I doubt the corrupt oafs in the statehouse will keep sticking their necks out for him. With any luck, maybe some of the votes they took to bolster his disastrous campaign will come back to bite them on the ass. Maybe better people will emerge.
But no matter what happens in Florida, the Republican Party’s drive to extend Trump’s vicious campaign of dominance and retribution will go on, and there are dozens if not hundreds of DeSantis-like fascist creeps waiting in the wings for their shot. The only thing that can end the whole nauseating Trump circus is us showing up in droves in November, leaving nothing left for the hyper-ambitious sadists to inherit.
Open thread.
Scout211
Thanks for the great wrap-up of The Idiot*, Betty.
I’m sorry that your team lost yesterday.
Also linked from the HuffPost article, I read that Miami Herald opinion piece and thought it was very good. From the link :
*my sister’s name for your governor, and hers.
Redshift
Hear, hear!
The Moar You Know
Told ya he wasn’t even going to make it out of the primaries.
He’s a fucking freak and whether people realize it overtly or not, they feel it on a subconscious level.
Suzanne
So I am seeing lots of commentary about this guy’s political career being over. I think he’s probably trying for a Cabinet post in Trump Reign of, well, Whatever That Was, Part II. I snarked yesterday about Secretary of Education, but honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me. Trump wants toadies and loyalists, and DeSantis would owe him a big one.
Does he have family wealth?
piratedan
I look at his campaign with one shining positive… the money spent on funding the presidential ambitions of the Governor of Florida, was money that was not spent on the 45th President and his legal woes.
With the understanding that more than a couple of the state party orgs are damn near broke, then that costs yet more money to repair and replace…. for all we know, this many be a monetary war of attrition and I approve of all of the self inflicted financial damage that they are inflicting on one another.
Scout211
I’m beginning to think that no one likes Ron DeSantis. Except maybe Casey. No scratch that, especially not Casey.
LOL
Jackie
I saw an opinion last night suggesting if Pudd’n Boots wants to continue in politics, he has until May? to challenge Rick Scott – up for re-election this year – for his senate seat.
Is that feasible? Or are FL republicans just over him? Or would a rejected and dejected loser just keep his head low, preferring to renew his attacks on Floridians?
ETA Found the source: ex-FL congressman David Jolly, who has ditched the GQP party and hates TIFG AND Pudd’n Boots:
https://www.rawstory.com/ron-desantis-florida-rick-scott/
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: DeSantis doesn’t have family wealth and only accrued a measure of personal wealth via wingnut welfare, i.e., bulk purchases of his crappy book that no one read.
Trump seems to value prodigal toadies above sycophants who were with him all along. But I’m not sure he’ll welcome DeSantis back into the fold. We’ll see.
Chris
I think DeSantis is probably done, because while on the one hand he’s gone all-in on Trumpian politics, on the other hand this whole spectacle will have marked him forever among Trumpians as 1) a beta cuck who got smacked down and 2) a RINO backstabber who tried to betray Literally Jesus.
Of course, my record of predicting what does and doesn’t appeal to these people isn’t great: I was sure J. D. Vance wouldn’t win his primary, so what do I know.
trollhattan
He’s Scott Walker after spending two-to-five in a prison cell with Donald Trump.
Same sparkling personalities, different but similarly substance-free sets of campaign issues, each visited every golldarn of those ninety-nine Iowa counties. So stupid, let’s do that again!
Didn’t work then, same result now. And I still do not know what the fuck “woke” is supposed to mean but it now fades into well-deserved obscurity because he helpfully poisoned it from further use.
trollhattan
@Jackie:
Unrelated but club me with a 4X4, somebody just made a splash announcement of her run for California governor. In 2026. Arrrrrgh!
balconesfault
Rather, DeSantis is a signpost in this weird moment in our political history, when buttoned-down Freedom Caucus-adjacent fascists are trying to co-opt lumpy Orange Sauron’s fake populism to accrue political power. Sometimes it works. J.D. Vance is now a U.S. Senator, for example.
I think that it worked for J.D. Vance because in front of the media he was willing to just like about what he represented … and the media wanted to buy it.
Encouraged by his ability to win re-election in Florida while doubling down on everything he represented, DeSantis assumed it would be sufficient to take his culture war show on the road. Problem is he was going up against Trump. Without Trump, DeSantis would probably be running away with the GOP Primary (barring the entry of Greg Abbott, who is better coached).
jackmac
Not only is DeSantis finished in national politics, he’s term-limited and can’t run for reelection as governor. May he slip into well-deserved obscurity as did former Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker following his ill-fated run.
Jackie
@trollhattan: Who????
Not his ex-wife/current fiancé to TIFG Jr – I hope! That would be… no words have been invented to describe…
Anonymous At Work
The timing was so incredibly weird. I was talking with my in-person circle about it Sunday as well. Too far late after Iowa to be a “I set my marker, failed to meet it” withdrawal and so close to New Hampshire that an extra day or two might have brought better news (getting the “Trump’s a crook, but Haley lacks male anatomy” vote).
Smells like he was out of money, as in completely out, and donors turned off spigot and wouldn’t restart it after a phone call.
Scout211
@trollhattan: Who? The last one announcing that I read about was Toni Atkins, Senate Leader.
Baud
I don’t know how he fares well in 2028, when he’s running against Kemp and Youngkin and who knows who else (Trump?).
OTOH, Republicans always get do-overs.
balconesfault
@Jackie: DeSantis is Gov for another 2 years … so why take on Scott now? If he still thinks Prez is do-able, you spend from 2026-2028 running. If he somehow doesn’t, then Marco Rubio in 2028 is much lower hanging fruit than Scott.
JML
I really don’t exactly understand how he got elected governor in the first place? It’s not like this basic problem of being an actual human just started when he ran for president, right? Or is he actually the ultimate stage-fright candidate that literally went to $h!t when he realized the scope of what he was trying to do?
balconesfault
@Baud: Youngkin would need to win re-election in 2026. Not a given.
Baud
@balconesfault:
He can’t run again. VA has a one term limit.
jimmiraybob
“…a symptom might be considered loyal to a disease.”
I don’t know if any of the Trump/MAGA cult ever actually swore an oath of eternal loyalty to COVID-19 but their actions speak volumes.
balconesfault
@Baud: wow … didn’t realize that. That’s weird. Any other states with a single term Governor limit?
Baud
@balconesfault:
Don’t think so.
Jackie
@balconesfault: Why not now? DeStupid was already running for POTUS BEFORE he was re-elected governor! Obviously he has no desire to be governor for another full term.
Eyeroller
@balconesfault: It was some power play by entrenched interests in the Legislature, from what I read, intended to try to keep the governorship weak.
Also our state elections are in odd-numbered years so he would have been up in 2025, not 26.
They can have more than one term (Terry McAuliffe would have if he had defeated Youngkin) but they can’t be consecutive.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: I’m sure Geminid has explained in the past how that one-term Governor thing came about in VA, but I can’t recall the reasoning for it right now.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
It’s not a new thing, but I’m not sure when it started.
Elizabelle
I am relieved that he flamed out, and took so much money down with him.
Awful little man. The white boots are probably embarrassed by him.
Bupalos
I get Cracker’s enthusiasm here, but DeSantis leaving the race isn’t a good thing and all along I’ve winced at left triumphalism about his failures. This cycle really is an inflection point in democratic decline, and absolutely anything that slows or complicates Trump’s consolidation of power is no bueno.
While it was hard to hear, see, or smell amidst the anti-woke screetching, the blinding white boots, and the dripping flop-sweat, DeSantis did offer a slightly more democratically salutary spin on Replican angst. His line was something like “we don’t have to accept decline.” There was no difference between him and Trump in identifying the supposed signs of that decline. The things that resonate with the howling backlashers that form the base of the Republican party are always and ever going to be the same. But there was a democratically important difference that boils down to this: DeSantis offers to use the existing democratic system and policy to halt “decline.” Trump offers revenge for something that is done and cannot be undone. The later is far more dangerous. Not least because the former will serially beclown itself in implementation and allow democracy to correct.
Baud
Mike in NC
The far right-wing pundit Ingrid Jacques — hired for some inexplicable reason by USA Today — is probably on suicide watch. She was totally smitten by the stocky Florida fascist and his white high heel go-go boots.
Elizabelle
Free link from WAMU radio (DC area PBS station), on why Virginia governors can only serve one term, although they can be re-elected no sooner than four years later:
Baud put this up a few posts earlier.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
I’m like, right here.
Elizabelle
@Baud: LOL. You found the same article faster!
West of the Rockies
@trollhattan:
I’m still seeing a lot of use of the pig-ignorant phrase “Go woke, go broke.”
So very clever. So pithy. Nah, so stale and pissy.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
“No, I’m not taking the goddamn Greyhound bus to New Hampshire! Do you know who I am? OK, you’re my campaign manager, you do know who I am. Get me a plane ticket. Preferably first class! Well, use the Master Card, they haven’t shut… oh, they have. Well, why can’t we sneak the charges onto a small donor’s credit card like Mr. Trump does?”
dmsilev
@Suzanne: I dunno, Trump probably thinks of DeSantis as a pathetic loser who isn’t any additional use to him. The sort of person that, once crushed, you forget. “Oh him, he used to get me coffee once or twice.”.
The hilarious thing is that DeSantis deserves it.
Betty Cracker
@Bupalos: Trump and DeSantos offer two versions of authoritarianism. Trump’s is cult of personality-based, and yes, it’s scary as hell and a threat to democracy. But arguably it’s a more transient version since it is centered on an individual.
The DeSantis version is Orban-style soft autocracy that co-opts agencies, businesses and institutions. It hollows out democracy, leaving its trappings in place but no real mechanism for change. It’s also scary as hell and a threat to democracy.
IMO, the demise of either model is worth celebrating. DeSantis’s candidacy was in no way mitigating the threat of Trump’s. It was lethal injection vs. a firing squad.
dmsilev
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Just as well. The head of his SuperPAC apparently was spending his time more productively, doing jigsaw puzzles.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Of course, it’s a good thing that he lost. He is awful. He was never going to be an alternative to Trump on the right. The only people who thought he was were Casey and elite Op-Ed writers. The work of defeating Trump falls, as it always has, on us.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@balconesfault:
His election was so disheartening. Sure, absolute clowns like Tuberville get in but I typically chalk that up to “Well Jake, it’s Alabama”.
But it’s also a sign of something I think Booman called the “Southification of ‘Murka” many years back.
matt
And when he says ‘WE will show the country how to lead’, he means Casey and him.
Almost Retired
Here’s hoping that DeStanky’s flame-out will suck the wind out of his wretched agenda in Florida. Republicans are notorious for abandoning a loser.
So I would imagine the compliant state Legislature no longer feels beholden to and/or interested in hitching their wagons to such a pinche perdedor.
And sane Floridians (I know they exist because I know some IRL) may demand that their government focus on issues that matter (insurance and climate mitigation, anyone) rather than wars on liberal arts colleges, drag queens, and mice who recently entered the public domain. Or so I hope.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Betty Cracker:
“Good morning. Would you like your left eye or right eye poked out by a burning stick this morning?”
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@dmsilev: That’s hilarious. And understandable. Finishing a jigsaw puzzle gives you a tangible result you can be proud of. Unlike his other job.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
If Biden is re-elected in November, it’s hard to see who’s going to fund a DeSantis 2028 campaign after the debacle that his 2024 campaign was. It’s not like there’s anything fixable.
(If – God forbid – Trump wins, he’ll be President for Life no matter what he appoints DeSantis to.)
kindness
Maybe the Republican party in Florida will bring back the regulation that said you had to resign from your current political office to run for a different office.
Naaa. Republican operatives in Florida probably think that was DeSantis’s highest achievement.
coin operated
The best plastic surgeons in Hollywood couldn’t make that man’s smile less fake than it already was. And Casey, aka Tacky Onassis, makes Melania seem warm by comparison.
The real mystery is why *anyone* thought this man (or his wife) was presidential material.
Brachiator
I love Betty’s takedown of DeSantis and hope he scurries away back into a dark corner.
The weird thing is that he was very much a media creation. That is, some reporters and pundits loved him early on without any justifiable reason, just because he wasn’t Trump. And they also assumed that all asshole Republicans were interchangeable. Some liberals also make this mistake.
But Pudding proved to be repellent as soon as he met with editorial boards. And the public was equally unimpressed.
And Betty absolutely nails it when she compares Trump and DeSantis to diseases.
Reporters and pundits need to drop this crap about seeing politicians and other public figures as brands. It’s reductive and stupid.
Also, for what it’s worth, I bet that Mrs DeSantis is livid that her husband crashed and burned, and also extinguished her own Jackie O fantasies.
Redshift
@Bupalos: I don’t see how it’s a given that Haley and DeSantis continuing to split the not-Trump vote is better for slowing Trump’s consolidation of power.
TBone
I’ve seen him live several times. The most memorable, however, was at Trump Taj Mahal where I was sitting up close and personal. How ironic is that? I wonder if he ever got paid for that show.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k03dsRUVbcQ
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus:
If he was never going to be the alternative (I agree something big like a TrumpStroke would have to happen), why is it good that he lost? In electoral terms, this is politics 101. You want the opposing candidate to have opposition and create division on their side. In that sense, this is not good. In societal terms, this is Social Trust 302. You want your fellow citizens to be competing for their (ugly, backlashy) visions within the agreed syatem, not going outside it or seeking to destroy it or focusing on who needs killin’ rather than what needs doin’. It’s an underappreciated difference that is a theme of comparative political history.
With a nod to Betty’s point that actual successful politicians with the skill and political support to more subtly steer the entire system to a new and self-perpetuating place are a huge danger too, I’d say “yeah but DeSantis tho?”
Splitting Image
@Bupalos:
I wouldn’t call it triumphalism. I think that DeSantis flaming out proves that Trump’s consolidation of power was already complete. If there were votes out there for DeSantis to get, they were probably among the 14 million people who voted for Trump in 2020 but not in 2016. That’s the anti-woke electorate DeSantis was after. He didn’t get it.
I think the best thing to come from DeSantis’ flameout is removing an obvious successor from the board. If Trump’s support is personal rather than partisan, then it is less likely to stick around after he shuffles off of this mortal coil. If DeSantis had been successful in replacing Trump in his voters’ eyes, then it would be easier to imagine another Republican doing so four years down the line. As it is, that is still not guaranteed.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Anonymous At Work: And don’t forget that he missed the deadline to file for the New York primary, so even if he did get a boost out of New Hampshire, he’d be locked out of the delegation one of the most populous states in the nation, one which knows TFG best and pretty much hates him (Elise Stefanik notwithstanding). DeSantis’s odds of taking the New York primary might have been bad, but not nonexistent, which is what they became when he missed the filing deadline.
cmorenc
@balconesfault:
North Carolina used to have a one-term limit for governors, until the state constitution was amended in 1977 to permit two terms.
NotMax
@jackmac
The road is wide open for a post-gubernatorial career appearing at nostalgia conventions as the creepy Burger King.
//
J.
If only Ron DeSantis had had Mark Burnett as his publicist. Burnett put Trump on the national map with The Apprentice, creating a fictional version of Trump that viewers ate up and believed to be real, carefully editing and scrapping the bits he didn’t want viewers to see. No other candidate before or since has gotten that kind of free publicity or image shining. Without The Apprentice, there would be no President Trump. All of this is to say, it will be very hard for anyone in the current race-to-the-bottom GOP to replace him. But I could see a popular reality TV star, podcaster, or athlete who shares Trump and the Rethuglican party’s views rising to national prominence. (I used to joke that our current election system should be restyled to resemble American Idol, where candidates would perform before judges and people would then vote for them via their phones or computers. Sadly, I have no doubt that would get more people to actually vote.)
Redshift
@trollhattan:
The useful rule of thumb is that whatever term or concept is grabbed by wingnuts as the new outrage (liberal, socialist, CRT, etc.), within a matter of weeks it means nothing but “stuff we hate.”
Eduardo
@Bupalos: I also would have liked much more infighting. My dream scenario many moons ago was DeSantis winning after a long, dirty primary only to have Trump telling his cult to sit 2024. But I got 1989 and 1991 so I can’t ask god for so much so many times.
The other thing that makes Trump so terrifying is that nobody is going to assault Congress on DeSantis name.
Having said that, it is OK to dance on his campaign grave.
Omnes Omnibus
We can start with the fact that he is horrible and, if this kills his chances at higher office in the future, it was an objectively good thing. Then we can move on to the fact that Trump is the GOP and the GOP is Trump at this point. The sooner everyone understands this, the better. There isn’t an alternative on the right. They aren’t going to save us from Trump. We need to do it.
Splitting Image
@Redshift:
The polling I saw indicated that Haley and DeSantis were being supported by two different groups. Most of the Republicans willing to admit that 2020 was on the up-and-up were lining up behind Haley. DeSantis voters might have been less likely to admit that than even Trump voters.
DeSantis was going after voters who don’t think that Trump was hurting gays, women and immigrants enough. I don’t know how many of them will line up behind Haley.
TBone
@Eduardo: Or pissing.
Hoppie
@Scout211: My senator, and before that rep. Would make a perfectly fine governor.
Bupalos
@Splitting Image: I think a lot of this is bound by thinking in traditional American political terms and not updating to our new reality. If Trump could be defeated by DeSantis in regular political order, then Trumpism would be dead. Because the entire premise of Trumpism is much more radical than that, and can’t really coexist with that.
Rjv
The Orlando Sentinel and Miami Herald should be careful. Pushaw might target them for mean tweets and Meatball might arrest a few journalists to prove that he’s still a right wing thug
Paul in KY
Posted this below about DeSatanis:
His problem basically was that he’s only comfortable and relaxed when he’s actively hurting people or animals. Out on the campaign trail, you don’t get to do alot of that, so he was always stressed.
I heard his campaign would get him to unwind by throwing baby chicks into a wood chipper.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
You nailed it. DeSantis is full of evil intent, but knows how to select people who are at least competent enough to execute his policy directives.
Paul in KY
@Jackie: I think Sen. Voldemort can actually fake ‘human’ much better than Klargar the Engulfer (else known as Gov. DeSatanis).
trollhattan
@Jackie: @Scout211:
Yeah, Atkins, who’s evidently campaigning as Loretta Lynn.
Villago Delenda Est
“The disease”. Very apt noun. Treat him like the smallpox. Eradicate him.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Do you have some theory as to why this would end his political aspirations? Seems to me he sets up pretty well if Trump wins (good chance) but ends up perceived as doing terribly (excellent chance) and fails another autogolpe (excellent chance.)
He’d be the “see, I told you we can’t do it like that” candidate.
The second point feels sufficiently reductive and adjacent to “heighten the contradictions” politics that it doesn’t work for me.
Bupalos
@Brachiator: it’s a good point. But in my estimation America is not yet ripe for that model, and I disagree that DeSantis is particularly adept at it anyway.
Paul in KY
@JML: TFG endorsed him & he barely won against a flawed Dem nominee who didn’t spend $1 million dollars in campaign cash he had in last weeks of campaign.
Paul in KY
@Miss Bianca: KY used to be 1 term until early 2000s or so.
TBone
My uterus is firing bullets today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OMdKpt2aPg
JMG
DeSantis can’t run for Governor again in 2026 and there won’t be a Florida Senate election that year, either. Both incumbents, Scott and Rubio, hate his guts. The rest of the Florida GOP now has every reason to treat him as a lame duck, no, as a humiliated lame duck. They might support his agenda, but the person, not so much. Bullies make enemies, even among their toadies. DeSantis returns to Florida in that most dangerous position — a bully now perceived as weak.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Where does DeSantis go from here? He is termed out as governor. Both FL Senators are GOP. Neither will stand aside for him, and I doubt that he could defeat either in a primary. Also, you may need to read up on what heighten the contradictions means. It doesn’t mean making it clear that this election comes down to a choice between a fascist and someone good but imperfect.
Tony G
@The Moar You Know: That’s certainly true. (So what does it say about the Good Citizens of Florida that DeSantis was re-elected in a landslide in 2022?)
cain
I expect this man to be even more vicious for the rest of his term. He’s going to take it out on the Florida GOP party. I expect the same tactics. Not sure how well it will work since there is no benefit to reading his coattails.
karen marie
@Bupalos:
He made no such offer, unless you think what he’s done in FL is an appropriate or acceptable “use” of “existing democratic system and policy.”
lee
I also get a chuckle out of the fact that the FL GOP changed the law to allow Ron to run for President without resigning.
TBone
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iYuldgIOelY
Frankensteinbeck
@trollhattan:
It means anti-bigotry. Unlike many of their buzzwords, conservatives know exactly what it means and use it consistently.
UncleEbeneezer
This just seems like a lot of words to say “White Supremacy.” This has always been the preferred dynamic of White Supremacy in America and why many of us said, from the moment Trump arrived on the political scene that his appeal was White Supremacy all the way down, because that is what has always been at the core of American Conservatism (and Libertarianism too).
lee
@Omnes Omnibus:
IIRC he can run again 4 years after this term is over. But yeah he’s done. My guess he either fades into obscurity or tries for Rubio’s Senate spot.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: I said “sufficiently adjacent to….”
Heighten the contradictions is indeed about creating clarity by reducing complications and middle grounds that are otherwise less severe, I think it’s an apt useage here…but I don’t mean to suggest that perceiving things the way you do changes anything politically. I’m just trying to explain why DeSantis’s exit is not something I view positively.
cain
@lee: Casey ain’t gonna let him fade to obscurity – she’s going to push him to find another way. Casey has big dreams. :)
UncleEbeneezer
@Frankensteinbeck: I’d go a step further and say it means:
1.) anything that doesn’t actively perpetuate White Supremacy/Patriarchy and
2.) anything that may lead to 1.
Conservatives are at the point where even race/gender-neutral policies are too “woke” because they don’t actively harm the right people.
West of the Rockies
I think a lot of people–on both sides!– probably found jarring the weird aspect of DeSantis acting like a tough, baseball playing, ex-military attorney (so scary!) but coming across as pissy, fussy, and not especially masculine in any good sense.
Dude is no Jack Aubrey.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: You have explained it. Thank you. Some of us disagree. I am not going to continue the discussion though. I need to go buy cough meds.
Bupalos
@karen marie: I’m speaking comparatively. Yes it’s better for democracy to do the evil thing through law rather than doing the evil thing through dictate or riot or anti-democratic nullification. It has to do with the way democratic possibilities are left open. I fully expect DeSantis’s anti-woke anti-trans book bullshit to create a slow-motion backlash.
Brachiator
@Bupalos:
There is no effective opposition within the state to DeSantis’ assaults on education, health care or his attacks on Disney. He is adept enough at articulating negative policies and installing people to enact those policies.
Bupalos
@UncleEbeneezer: It’s White-Supremacy Plus.
And it’s a very big plus, which is how he pulled a higher percentage of black, latino, and asian voters in 2020 compared to 2016, and a lower percentage of whites.
UncleEbeneezer
The silver lining of DeSantis going down in flames is that it shows that Trump’s popularity/appeal can’t just be transferred to any other fascist asshole. In other words, Trump’s ability to drive turnout from Deplorable voters, is somewhat unique. So while there will always be more fascists waiting in the GOP wings, they likely won’t have the same mobilizing advantage of being a tv personality with 30 years of fawning coverage from the media. That gives me hope for our chances of avoiding another Trump, once he’s gone.
trollhattan
Lift battle!
Ksmiami
@cain: those Tacky O dresses won’t buy themselves…
Bupalos
@Brachiator: Florida isn’t America. And he made some loud stinkies, but he’s already lost to Disney and while the damage will be real, I bet his other efforts come to naught in due time
DeSantis’s problem is playing too much in the real world. That’s not where this politics succeeds.
UncleEbeneezer
@Bupalos: White Supremacy doesn’t only appeal to White People and it’s not only about race. Black Men might support Trump because they feel like these Women are making too many gains. Latinx voters might support Trump because of LGBTQ-phobia. Asian-Americans might support him because they believe racist myths about crime and fear that Dems will somehow abolish the police. They are all voting for different branches of White Supremacy.
Bupalos
@UncleEbeneezer: I don’t think it indicates that at all. Authoritarianism always has a problem with succession, but Trumpism can go on without Trump. It’s just never going to be someone with a DeSantis resume.
Bupalos
@UncleEbeneezer: Well OK but if “white supremacy” encompasses all that and more, then it isn’t a useful term. Misogyny as a branch of white supremacy?
Brachiator
@Bupalos:
You keep saying that DeSantis will fail in the long run while ignoring the damage that he is currently causing.
Florida is not America. So what, Florida doesn’t matter?
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
They aren’t going to save us from Trump. We need to do it.
THIS. The people that want to vote for SFB want to because he is SFB. They want a complete change of politics so that they can get their hate and racism on. Once again. They do not want a political system for everyone, they want it for them alone. They are wishing for the olden days that actually were crap for them as well. But they would rather suffer than anyone they hate actually having a decent government. Our modern world has allowed them to see what they want the world to be like and how to get there, that everyone they think is below them on some arbitrary, idiotic scale suffers, which is why they like SFB, AKA donald. They don’t want a better or even worse government, they want their hate to reign supreme. They are still fighting the battle of the civil war, where white is right. They are never going to accept an equal place in the world, their hate has become all they are. A long time ago.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: Does your definition of “white supremacy” encompass sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, distrust of science, opposition to public education, public libraries, secular institutions, etc.? If so, your definition is overly broad to the point of incoherence. If not, your definition captures only a part of what motivates modern-day American fascists.
Bugboy
I’m currently attempting to walk a $250K CDC/FDACS passthrough grant through the revision process, which we intended to assist us with the purchase of a generator in the construction of our new mosquito control facility. Previous grants that started in 2016 with the Zika outbreak had issues, but this one has been an absolute nightmare, with FDACS demanding revisions immediately, then taking weeks to respond to those revisions. Insisting we spoon feed any questions in a table, instead of reviewing the comments actually, you know, included *IN* the document for those questions. Taking 2 weeks to inform us of that. It occurred to me last week that the entire mess might be due to DeSantis being otherwise occupied. Or, maybe they don’t actually want to disburse the CDC funds? That would never happen, would it? /s
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: That was just a theory: that the elites who ran Virginia knew that if a progressive Governor somehow won election, their entrenched allies in the General Assembly could defeat any reforms attempted in the first term. In other states, a reform Governor might try to rally people behind them for their second term but a Virginia Governor cannot.
The one-term limit benefits Youngkin, though. He’d have a tough time winning reelection next year , especially against Abigail Spanberger. But instead he gets to retire undefeated.
So Foungkin’ Youngkin has been running for President since the day he beat Terry McAuliffe. He’ll leave office in January of 2026 and then he can shift from part-time to full-time campaign mode.
EarthWindFire
@West of the Rockies: And completely inaccurate, not that accuracy ever stopped these clowns.
...now I try to be amused
@UncleEbeneezer:
I figured as much since there never has been anyone like Trump on the national level before him.
I think a large part of Trump’s appeal is in breaking the unwritten rules of politics and getting away with it. He’s a politician for people who hate politics.
Bupalos
@Brachiator: in fact I mentioned the real damage he’s done in Florida, but this discussion is in the context of DeSantis’s national ambitions and why it is or (IMO) isn’t good that he dropped out.
MAGA politics is not really powered by looking towards a possible future, but rather looking back towards a mythical past, and especially towards who is to blame for the loss of that past. Politicians like this have to be very careful about how much they dabble in the real world because the complications of reality can contradict the fantasy.
EarthWindFire
After a listen to The Focus Group podcast (highly recommend), I can tell you they won’t. The amount of “I don’t trust a woman to be president” coming out of those groups shocked even me, and I think Republican=chauvinist.
Haley only has a chance in NH because of the potential indy/dem crossover vote (focus groups with them were today’s podcast). If she can’t find a way to gracefully withdraw before her home state of SC, I think her political career will end there. GOP voters really don’t trust a woman to be commander-in-chief, especially female GOP voters. Don’t see South Carolina of all places being the exception to that.
Soprano2
@Mike in NC: She pollutes our op-ed page every couple of months. Our local paper is a Gannett rag.
SW
There is the same proportion of assholes in the electorate as there always was. Trump’s innovation was to make an explicit play for them. Trump gave them a home and identity. Because of that, they will never abandon him. What remains to be determined is just what fraction of the electorate do they comprise. Is The U. S. Asshole nation? Stay tuned. We are about to find out.
Geminid
He’s also a politician for people who hate politicians. This is a problem for the Republican party, because his most loyal followers hate most Republican politicians as much as they hate Democratic ones, maybe even more. Trump isn’t just ruining the Republican brand among moderate and liberal voters, he’s ruining it with a lot of conservatives too.
Ruckus
@…now I try to be amused:
He’s a politician for people who hate politics.
Don’t limit them. They hate more than just politics.
tmulcaire
“Voters who crave the disease — to extend the metaphor, let’s call it syphilis — aren’t going to vote for “genital lesions” when “syphilis” is right there on the same ballot. It really is that simple, I think.”
What a great sentence. It says more about this race than all the columns Dan Balz or David Brooks ever wrote, plus it’s funnier than any sentence they ever wrote. Good work, Betty!
fairdinkum
@Baud: Kemp may run for Senate. He’s pretty averse to real work. Granted, the Orange Blob didn’t do much real work, but he was always busy doing shitty things. Kemp seems just lazy enough to want to be a Senator for life who doesn’t really do much. Chambliss and Isakson were good examples of this approach to Republican “leadership.”
Bugboy
RE: DeSantis’ war on Disney: This is more than just bashing Disney. His administration, with an assist by a west coast district representative with his hate-on for fire districts, has a program afloat which spilled over to the gazillion other special taxing districts that exist, because that’s how Republican’ts roll. The rule of unintended consequences is a feature not a bug to these folks.
DeSantis didn’t actually start this, Rick Scott did on an earlier round of special district bashing that spawned an audit process for those districts, since local government is the best government, amirite? I believe HIS target was the water management districts.
Incidentally, MC districts were up first (low hanging fruit?) and came through with flying colors. Flash forward several years and our association is holding that up to ask why anyone thinks it needs to be repeated. So, Disney is just a piece of this, since the real crime here is that DiSantis dissolved a legitimate governing board and inserted his own lackies. Say what you will about how Disney ran their literal kingdom, but they knew how to play that game well before DeSantis tossed the table.
Brachiator
@Bupalos:
This is also a discussion about the different authoritarian styles of DeSantis and Trump and other possible Republican candidates.
And so? It’s a formula that works and has always been the primary tool of tyrants.
Bupalos
@SW: assholes are not born, they’re made. And yes, I think we’re making more and better assholes than in the past.
Quinerly
@cmorenc: NC Gov Jim Hunt was a governor like Brown in CA. Came back after being term limited. Served 1977-1985 and then again 1993-2001. Great man. Great governor. My distant cousin.
Betty Cracker
@Bugboy: I agree about the lackeys and wish the DeSantis admin’s corruption got more attention. He appointed some of the worst kooks and sycophants in the state to that board, where they rake in massive salaries while bungling every aspect of the job.
...now I try to be amused
I see so much history repeating itself. America failed the final exam on the 20th Century and has to repeat it. At least the 21st Century wars aren’t as big — yet.
West of the Rockies
@Frankensteinbeck:
Basically, politically correct.
Tehanu
I do like the phrase “lumpy Orange Sauron.”
rikyrah
There’s a lot of shyt that DeathSantis did that needs to be investigated.
The best thing ever?
The Mouse isn’t going away. They’re going to take that case all the way . They are going to humiliate him and set an example with him and all the rest of the GOP that went along with him…so that they know not to phuck with The Mouse ever again.
Bupalos
@Brachiator: My point wrt Desantis is that he fucked up the ratio of fantasy to reality that he needs to succeed in MAGA politics. Too heavy on the MAG and too light on the A. His whole line has been a version of “come on, we really have to DO this, and Trump can’t get it done effectively.” And so he jumped in to a bunch of active stunt-shit like banning abortion, busing immigrants to cold places, suing Disney, unleashing Concerned Threesome Mom’s for Mocking LGTBQ etc.
And the reception he got was declining popularity in Florida, and nationally it was…. crickets. [Cue lone voice in the crowd shouting “DO ‘THE SNAKE!!!'”]
So the point is that folks assuming DeSantis is scary and would be a more effective fascist because he’s “competent” and “disciplined” are likely 180 degrees wrong. He’s preferable because he has negative charisma and wants to do things that are at best orthagonal to the revenge fantasy and at worst completely ruin it’s seductive simplicity. In my view if America was a different country than it is, DeSantis might be as dangerous as Trump. But as it is, it’s no contest. And the political and cognitive friction his presence provided on the right is something I don’t celebrate being removed.
Bugboy
@Betty Cracker: Right, and it occurs to me the reason DeSantis targeted this board for elimination was because most special taxing districts have constituents whom are served by those districts, who would readily protest disruption of those services any board dissolution would bring.
Disney actually had a designated set of employee “constituents” that served as board members. I saw their housing on campus when I was on a tour of Disney’s MC program back in the ’90’s. It might have been a little dodgy, but it was completely legal, but also an Achilles Heel for Disney…
Bupalos
@…now I try to be amused: history doesn’t repeat itself.
Paul in KY
@…now I try to be amused: Huey Long was somewhat like Trump’s MAGA thing. Much different person & such, but with a personal cult of popularity, etc.
Paul in KY
@Tehanu: Sort of a dis on Sauron. He was very successful for a long period in 2nd Age and then was going gangbusters at end of Third. Just had this blind spot about how the Ring might be refused by some entity and coupled with his passionate need for it, caused him to make some bad strategic blunders.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: God, I hope so! Disney doesn’t keep a phalanx of top-quality lawyers for nothing.
AlaskaReader
@…now I try to be amused:
The thing we learn from history is we don’t learn from history.
rikyrah
This can’t be said enough. The reason why DeathSantis lasted way longer than he should have, is because the MSM, which had spent over a year, fluffing him up, wasn’t about to give up all that ink spent in pushing him as the next Big GOP Thing. Like him, they had to be knocked around repeatedly until they got the message. They had invested in a LOSER.
Kaivan Shroff (@KaivanShroff) posted at 4:16 PM on Sun, Jan 21, 2024:
You take the precipitous downfalls of Youngkin & DeSantis — who beltway media anointed brilliant culture warriors — and all of a sudden Democrats look pretty smart on how they’ve engaged (and/or refused to engage) in the culture wars. But Politico will never write that headline.
(https://x.com/KaivanShroff/status/1749194285885325783?t=3I0RkMZ8zZqvZSQSY1EKHA&s=03)
rikyrah
Kat 4 Obama (@Kat4Obama) posted at 6:18 PM on Sun, Jan 21, 2024:
“DeSantis never appeared to want to save the GOP. He was more interested in making it a more ravenous, angrier and intolerant party. That worked for Trump, but didn’t work for the governor with all the charisma of burned toast.” https://t.co/1PjKoy5tli
(https://x.com/Kat4Obama/status/1749224996537549158?t=QQgADFld5Qpp0J5QnuhB_w&s=03)
tjlabs
Thought you’d appreciate this little item that just popped up on my news feed.
Florida bill would funnel $5M of public money to Trump to pay legal fees
Raw Story – Celebrating 19 Years of Inde… / by Matthew Chapman / January 22, 2024 at 03:23PM
rikyrah
Scott Maxwell (@Scott_Maxwell) posted at 5:15 PM on Sun, Jan 21, 2024:
It’s hard to overstate how epic this collapse was.
Ron DeSantis’ biggest problem was Ron DeSantis.
The more he introduced himself to voters, the less they liked him.
And it became evident: The best day of the DeSantis 2024 campaign was before it began.
https://t.co/7qL7DR6cXb
(https://x.com/Scott_Maxwell/status/1749209213643952166?t=RByZp0cCfKSvWL4BJRv5-w&s=03)
Bill Arnold
@Villago Delenda Est:
Get biblical about it. This is one (of several similar rules) for objects, not humans. (R. Desantis: Human, or not?)
55 Then the kohen shall look [at it] after the lesion has been washed. And, behold! the lesion has not changed in appearance, and the lesion has not spread; it is unclean. You shall burn it in fire. It is a penetrating lesion on the worn or new [article].
leeleeFL
@Scout211: I picture her as Lady Macbeth, or one of the witches. I told someone yesterday Casey wanted to be the next Jackie Kennedy, she ain’t even the next Jackie Mason! They were old enough to get the reference!
Please let this be the end of whatever they are!
Citizen Alan
@JML: It is probably grossly unfair of me, but I blame bernie sanders and his followers. I am absolutely convinced that gwen graham could have won that race. But in a huge primary with no run off, the Bernie Bros dragged Andrew Gillum across the finish line with something like 34% of the dem vote.
The Up and Up
Late to the party with this, but the other week I saw DeSantis for President signs in Bellevue Washington. One was kind of flopped over by the ditch along a stretch of Richards Road/Factoria Blvd.
RaflW
I don’t watch much TV, but wanted to see Trevor Noah and Ruby Bridges on Colbert last night.
Stephen was unsparing in his monologue as he mocked both Ron & Don. Colbert’s robotics as he clipped and then ‘extended’ DeStumbles quitting speech was some excellent, cruel comedy.