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Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

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You are here: Home / Politics / Trump Indictments / Laughter and Tears Open Thread

Laughter and Tears Open Thread

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A few laughs at the former guy’s expense.

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And one WTF??!

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I was guessing that mishegoss was a synonym for clusterfuck, but it doesn’t appear to be exactly that.

craziness; senseless behavior
Definitions of mishegoss. (Yiddish) craziness; senseless behavior or activity. synonyms: meshugaas, mishegaas. type of: craziness, folly, foolery, indulgence, lunacy, tomfoolery.

Also, when I heard what Cannon had ruled – let’s let the jurors without clearance see all the national security and classified documents so they can decide for themselves whether they are personal documents! – my first thought was maybe this is just crazy enough that Jack Smith  can get Cannon thrown into whichever circle of hell she belongs in  take it to the 11th Circuit, and some legal peeps seem to be having a similar thought.

A (writ of) mandamus is an order from a court to an inferior government official ordering the government official to properly fulfill their official duties or correct an abuse of discretion.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

113Comments

  2. 2.

    VFX Lurker

    Thank you for these posts, Watergirl.

    Also, there is a teeny tiny typo in the title (“laugher” instead of “laughter”).

  4. 4.

    oldgold

    Apparently Trump is seriously considering hiring Paul Manafort to work in his campaign. What ‘s next? Hiring the ghost of Julius Rosenberg as a science/ technology adviser.

  5. 5.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I hesitate to comment on legal threads these days because I am a cowardly institutionalist who opinions are rightly reviled, but Jack Smith will get one chance to get Cannon removed.  If he tries and fails, he won’t get another bite at that apple.  What was it that Omar Little said?

  7. 7.

    Jackie

    Another frivolous lawsuit from TIFG at poor “rape shamed” Nancy Mace’s request*:

    Donald Trump sued ABC News and George Stephanopoulos for defamation over the anchor’s interview of Rep. Nancy Mace (R-SC) in which he said a judge found Trump had “raped” writer E. Jean Carroll.

    George Conway: “Trump is suing Stephanopoulos and ABC because Stephanopoulos repeated what a federal district judge has said repeatedly in written opinions. By bringing this lawsuit, Trump will only bring more public attention to what he did to Carroll. And he and his lawyers may very well be—in fact, ought to be—sanctioned.”

    “Another brilliant stable-genius move. Trump is not only a rapist, he’s a nut job, and a very, very dumb one at that.”

    *I read a headline yesterday, that Mace was encouraging TIFG to sue Stephanopoulas because of how mean he was to her on his Sunday morning program TV interview.

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: I agree that if you come at the king…

    I think we all value your opinion here.

    Do you not think this is the one?

    Do you agree with the legal eagles that say he pretty much has to do it before the trial starts, otherwise she could dismiss the case or otherwise do some stuff that would mean there would be no appealing it and jeopardy would attach?

  9. 9.

    TBone

    Cannon’s new jury instructions are #@*&# and really pissed me off when the actual wording was highlighted this morning, basically saying “TIFG can declassify anything with his mind.”

  11. 11.

    geg6

    Totally out of nowhere and for no real reason, I have to say I really like the Miley Cyrus song “Used to Be Young.”  Really good vocal work and the lyrics?  * chef’s kiss

  12. 12.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: I don’t have Smith’s experience litigating at this level.   I don’t know the judges of the 11th Circuit at all.  I will defer to Smith and his team’s judgment as to when and if he should seek to have Cannon removed.  It isn’t the slam dunk that some people here think it is.

  13. 13.

    SFAW

    Fearless/clueless prediction(s): Jack Smith will do nothing vis-a-vis the recommendation(s) from Weissmann and Moss, Cannon will successfully delay the trial until after the election, and TIFG will never see the inside of a jail cell (except as a visitor).
    I desperately hope that, yet again, I am worng, but after seeing countless “Jack Smith will take Cannon to the woodshed (other than a pretty filing in response), THIS time for sure, Rocky” I am less sanguine that justice will be served. [Yes, I know the 11th Circuit has countermanded some of Cannon’s shenanigans.]
    But I’m an asshole, not a lawyer, and I’m sure all the lawyer jackals (or jackal lawyers) will tell me to stop being an Eeyore or something.

  15. 15.

    TBone

    @SFAW: my hubby has gone to the dark side with you.  I solidly refuse to be dampened but it’s hard to do with him yelling at the TV.  Nevertheless, I persist.

  16. 16.

    Raoul Paste

    Assuming all of this gets properly resolved, I really hope that in the future, there is a  law that says that no judge can serve in a trial where that judge has been appointed by the defendant

  17. 17.

    Captain C

    Judge Cannon is lucky that the ‘deep state’ is not nearly as lawless and anti-Republican as the MAGAts claim it is, otherwise she’d be on her way to an extended Gitmo vacation as we speak, where she would spend her days being interrogated about who she’s actually working for, since it’s obviously not the USA.

  19. 19.

    frosty

    @SFAW: I tend to think that Cannon will successfully throw sand in the gears of justice so the trial is delayed until after the election. Then, when he loses and he can’t do anything for her she’ll back off and let the trial run like normal. At that point I expect him to be convicted and sentenced to be confined without visitors or internet access. Hoping for jail, but a military base would be OK.

    To be sure, I have no legal expertise. Also, I appear to be more of an optimist than I thought I was

  20. 20.

    TBone

    @Raoul Paste: it’s just too simple, somehow.  Like so plainly obvious that people can’t recognize it staring them down.  We need to win and use our time to make enforceable laws in this regard.  With actual enforcement.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    @TBone:

    I wouldn’t say I’m “dampened”; I think it’s more like I’m darkly amused by all the “THIS time Cannon has gone too far!” pronouncements.

    Omnes’s point about “you come at the king, you best not miss” **  is an excellent one. My concern is that Smith et al. may never try (assuming it’s warranted to try, as opposed to Cannon skirting defiance of the 11th, but never actually defying them), and that someone is the Cannon-whisperer, advising her how to game the system completely, and can thread the needle. [I’m assuming that someone has been advising her on that last part for awhile.]

    ETA: ** Well, either that, or “Need a pack of Newports….soft pack.”

  22. 22.

    terraformer

    Like what Hillary wrote about the “are you better off…”, I immediately thought:

    Always consider what the orange fella says from *his* standpoint, not yours.

  26. 26.

    danielx

    @SFAW: ​
     

    [I’m assuming that someone has been advising her on that last part for awhile.]

    Ghost of Roy Cohn.

  27. 27.

    narya

    @Omnes Omnibus: What other recourse does Smith have if she’s serious about showing national security info to jurors? That is just bonkers, but I totally get what you’re saying about having only once chance at DQing Cannon, and I’ve never thought that he’d jump to that option without trying a multitude of other strategies.

  30. 30.

    WaterGirl

    @SFAW: I agree that Canon is totally being coached on how to go right up to the line. In fact, sometimes I wonder if they are trying to beat Jack Smith into going to the 11th circuit too soon. But the federalist society, or something similar is most definitely directing her moves.

    in my humble opinion. or not so humble!

  32. 32.

    Jackie

    @frosty:

    I tend to think that Cannon will successfully throw sand in the gears of justice so the trial is delayed until after the election. Then, when he loses and he can’t do anything for her she’ll back off and let the trial run like normal.

    That’s my take as well. Lawrence O’Donnell has bluntly stated the reason TIFG attended the MAL hearing was to remind Cannon that if he wins the election, he will make Clarence Thomas a bribe to retire that he can’t refuse, and give his SC seat to Cannon.

    Of course, FIRST TIFG has to WIN, and SECONDLY the senate has to vote for her confirmation. I just don’t see her getting through the Judicial Community, myself – but I’m probably overestimating the senate’s common sense that Cannon’s even too wacko for them to confirm.

  33. 33.

    Betty

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think Bradley Moss on the same program suggested following those interim steps with the belief that eventually Smith will have to seek her recusal.

  34. 34.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    She would’ve been a great president.

    Mostly I’m not excessively bitter about it, because the same is true of literally every Democratic presidential loser in the last ninety years, at least by comparison with what we got instead, but man, is it ever true.

  35. 35.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SFAW: I have been saying for years that DJT will never see the inside of a prison cell. I have seen nothing to stay me from that position.

  37. 37.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic: at least one of the Watergate guys was imprisoned in the military prison on a military base, so that’s what I’m assuming they would do with Trump. Is there any reason to think that wouldn’t happen?

  39. 39.

    New Deal democrat

    I will differ with some of the other comments on this thread in that I think Smith *must* go to the 11th Circuit. The only question is *when*?

    Cannon already has issued an order about witness identities that Smith called “clear error.” She has yet to decide his motion to reconsider.

    Further, it has been pointed out that under Cannon’s second scenario (Trump can mentally declassify anything anytime) there is no legal case to try, and Trump would be entitled to an automatic acquittal. I think this is where Cannon is heading: to hold all of these scenarios open until jury selection, and then direct an acquittal under this second declassification theory.

    Under those circumstances, with the fix in, Smith simply must appeal. But he must choose his best time.

  40. 40.

    oldgold

    Omar Little:
    “You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss.”
    My favorite Littleism:
    “But The Game Is Out There, And It’s Either Play Or Get Played.”

  41. 41.

    WaterGirl

    I really think the coverage of Trump has really started to change in maybe just the last week.

    I mean at some point the media collectively look like total idiotic fools when they continue to pretend that Trump is not losing his marbles and clearly stating he won’t go gently if he is not elected. in fact, I heard there will be a bloodbath! :-)

  42. 42.

    hueyplong

    Despite the fact that it occurred during the so-called Information Age, the One Weird Trick proposed by former prosecutor Weissman and amplified by poster SFAW on an under-the-radar website was either ignored or rejected by Jack Smith.

    And all was lost.

    (From the 2077 audiobook on The Fall of America that became a best seller in China)

  43. 43.

    TBone

    OT question:  is it okay to put some really thinly sliced celery into my homemade cole slaw?  I need to use it up.  Shredded cabbage, grated carrot, grated onion and good homemade slaw dressing will marinate in the fridge for eating tomorrow.

    Celery or no?

  46. 46.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    Celery goes in cornbread stuffing, not cole slaw.  Just my opinion of course.

  49. 49.

    laura

    @TBone: yes to celery bc any really tasty slaw sauce has celery salt. Also, too, grated tart apple. But do not, and I can’t stress this enough, add raisins.

  53. 53.

    Jackie

    Good news!

    “A new $120 million pledge to lift President Biden and his allies will push the total expected spending from outside groups working to re-elect Mr. Biden to $1 billion this year,” the New York Times reports.

    “The League of Conservation Voters, a leading climate organization that is among the biggest spenders on progressive causes, announced its plans for backing Mr. Biden on Tuesday, at a moment when his Republican challenger, former President Donald J. Trump, is struggling to raise funds. Mr. Biden’s campaign, independent of the outside groups, expects to raise and spend $2 billion as part of his re-election bid.”

    And, MORE good news! YAY MONTANA!!!

    After two months of litigation and consideration, the Montana Supreme Court overruled the state attorney general’s January finding that a constitutional initiative to explicitly protect abortion rights is “legally insufficient,” resolving one of many obstacles to the proposal being placed before voters on the November ballot, the Montana Free Press reports.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    @Jackie: You can make slaw out of a ton of choices.

     

    My favorite slaw was from shredded broccoli stalks and has  ramen noodles.

  55. 55.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Jackie: It’s like the horror-movie cliche. “Hey, everybody who went into the basement has disappeared. I think I’ll go down to the basement to see what’s going on.”

    Former Guy version: “Every time I launch one of these stupid lawsuits all that happens is it gets thrown out of court and I and my lawyers gets sanctioned for millions. I think I’ll start another one of these stupid lawsuits.”

  56. 56.

    Jackie

    @Anoniminous:

    I’d mince them to get the flavor but not the mouth-feel of old celery

    Shock the limp celery in ice water for a while, first. That should help with crunchifying 😁

  58. 58.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @rikyrah:

    @WaterGirl:… sometimes I wonder if they are trying to beat Jack Smith into going to the 11th circuit too soon.

    We see this over and over in Trump’s and his lawyers’ behavior. They cannot win on the merits so they “pound the table.” They are trying to provoke errors. Judge Cannon is a soft target there. The real aim, in my opinion, is to provoke Jack Smith.

    We expect a lack of respect for the law from Trump.  That he finds lawyers willing to take this approach is disturbing but not surprising.

  59. 59.

    TBone

    @Jackie: great idea, thanks!  It’s not so old that it’s limp 😆 but it’s the heart of the bunch and could use a good shock.

  62. 62.

    TBone

    @laura: 😆 no worries!

    Thanks to everyone who responded, I’m using up the last of the fresh St. Patty Day cabbage.  My elementary school nickname was Peppermint Patty, given to me by a tall, Black girl (fondly) because tomboy.  So I always think of her every year and send my family greetings with Peppermint Patty cartoons.  I used to look like Punky Brewster 😆

  63. 63.

    Anoniminous

    @Jackie: ​
     
    Unfortunately shocking the celery takes planning & foresight instead just of wandering into the kitchen to throw something together for lunch because we’re starving.

  64. 64.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Keith P.:

    Even then, four years ago, DJT was hospitalized with COVID, so *he* wasn’t better off (unless he’s had a stroke since then) 

    How would we even know with what a narcissistic POS Dump is?

    (rhetorical question)

  65. 65.

    TBone

    @geg6: but but but celery seed goes in the dressing! I only put in a little bit of very thinly sliced pieces so we’ll never know it’s there.  Too thin to be crunchy and will add some flavor.  Gah, it’s already in the bowl, dang it!

  70. 70.

    RaflW

    @Jackie: The suit is ridiculous, and i dearly hope Trump had to pay up front to those lawyers (thus wasting more of his dwindling cash).

    But, the press should understand that as a clear warning that if he retakes the WH, he’ll use every power he can improperly amass to punish guys like Stephanopoulos.

    He really, really isn’t kidding, or rambling, or discoursing or whatever about his desire to jail his press tormentors (though I mostly wish they were really tormentors!). He’ll do it. On day one as dictator, probably.  To make it clear to the wannabe courtesans, that they’ll be next if they fall out of line.

  71. 71.

    TBone

    @WaterGirl: ooooh now my hopes are way up again 😍 I’d forgotten about that.  No matter what, though, every day will be worse and worse for him.  The rat is cornered and his mob is having second thoughts because consequences.

  72. 72.

    cain

    @WaterGirl: my prediction is that yes he will never see the inside of a jail because even if he was convicted he would appeal. Then as he delays his mental health ain’t getting better and eventually his lawyers are going to say that he has deteriorated to the point that he will be incompetent to stand trial.

  74. 74.

    mrmoshpotato

    @TBone: Celery doesn’t really taste like anything, so add some extra crunch.  Don’t go off the rails and add raisins or peanut butter though.

  78. 78.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @New Deal democrat: I agree with all this, and also Smith is a very very smart prosecutor. I have no idea what considerations go into deciding “the best time” but I’m confident Smith will make a choice that in retrospect we will realize is very smart and well-chosen.

    I think / hope that this is the order that gets Cannon removed. But I’m afraid she’s already succeeded in pushing the trial into 2025, no matter what happens next.​

    So I’m getting my Schadenfreude from the increasing evidence that the civil judgments have already destroyed him, caused him pain that will last the rest of his life.

  80. 80.

    TBone

    @mrmoshpotato: peanut butter has never occurred to me in the vicinity of cole slaw.  Hubby is a peanut butter freak and would prolly eat that.  I only use it for Asian type sauces and dressings.  And sandwiches, or Ritz crackers.  And squirrel bait.

  86. 86.

    NotMax

    @TBone

    Standing the stalks upright (after cutting off the root end) in a tumbler of water inside the fridge keeps them firm longer than does tossing them into the “crisper” drawer.

    As for the slaw, why the hell not? Live on the edge.

  88. 88.

    TBone

    @NotMax: you’re flirting with me again! 💙 Wouldn’t have it any other way, life’s too short for boredom!

    That’s how I store asparagus.  Celery usually gets used before it is faulty.

    Oh, and for my next trick in the kitchen this week, it’s pickle soup time!  It’s GD snowing here again with temps going down into the 20s overnight.  Nonna to the rescue!

  89. 89.

    New Deal democrat

    @cain:

    Wouldn’t that mean that Biden can do the same thing ?

    He could, but he won’t. Because he actually respects why certain things must remain classified.

  90. 90.

    New Deal democrat

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    But I’m afraid she’s already succeeded in pushing the trial into 2025, no matter what happens next.​

    I agree. Even if he were to go to the 11th Circuit now, and ultimately won there, so much time would pass, plus the need for a new judge to get up to speed, that the trial almost certainly wouldn’t take place before the election.

  93. 93.

    Roberto el oso

    Not a super big fan of cole slaw but the best I’ve ever had included water chestnuts. Nice crunch and they don’t distract from the other flavors (as they have none themselves).

  95. 95.

    Jackie

    @cain:

    eventually his lawyers are going to say that he has deteriorated to the point that he will be incompetent to stand trial.

    If he’s competent enough to be president of the USA  – with the codes to our nuclear arsenal – he’s competent to stand trial.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I do believe that it is entirely possible that he won’t.

    We seem to reward presidents with far more power than what I believe the office actually accords. That means that most of us understand that we need a leader, especially at certain times. But a leader is NOT just the person at the top of the pile. A leader is one who does the hard or tough work of being fair, being strong, being forgiving, understanding more than self aggrandizement and being able to smell one’s own shit – especially if it comes out of both ends. If self aggrandizement is the only goal of a candidate then they are the absolute worst candidate. ShitForBrains is self aggrandizement personified.

  101. 101.

    Paul in KY

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m thinking it could backfire on TFG. You get the jury the proper clearances and then they examine the stuff in the correct environment and with the safeguards for that kind of info and then they see TFG having them in the broom closet and such.

  104. 104.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:

    I believe that there is.

    We hold, like it or not, should or not, that a president above a lot of things. They run the country – sort of. They are responsible – at least most of them.

    The concept that money is king is not new, will likely never actually go away. Many people have respect for people that actually have MONEY, even if they absolutely do not deserve it. ShitForBrains was president, apparently elected, sworn in and worse than useless. And he at least has had more money than most of us will ever even be able to think of having. Of course he started by cheating his siblings out of the $400 million that his father had. That gets him a following. But he has all the sense and usefulness of a 50 yr old mattress filled with hay that was used by a 300 lb human, every day. And that cost $10. IOW none. He is the specimen of human that proves that shit can be more than a couple pounds of animal waste

    But he held a position at the top of the heap and many people think that is the greatest possible place to be. Except that he attempted to lower the bar to the bottom so he could get over it, rather than raise himself to the level required.

  106. 106.

    TBone

    @Roberto el oso: interesting!  I once added them to a cold crab dip, sorta finely minced and they were fabulous.  No one could put their finger on what was going on, but all exclaimed how delicious it was and it didn’t last long.

  108. 108.

    leeleeFL

    @geg6: Miley Cyrus has always been a favorite of mine, since Hannah Montana!  But her new stuff is FIRE!  Her Grammy Awards are well- earned. She touches in themes that most women can identify with.  I love her!

  109. 109.

    leeleeFL

    @Anoniminous: Personally, I use a touch of seasoned rice vinegar for that taste, and good mayo!  I use Hellman’s Vegan to avoid eggs and soybean oil.

  110. 110.

    scav

    @Roberto el oso: What is amazing to me is everyone, everyone, says water chestnuts don’t taste like anything, but I’m like a water chestnut supertaster.  Can’t stand the things, no matter how small the mince — and even I can’t exactly remember what they taste like as they’re out of my mouth so fast.  Luckily, I seem to be an extreme minority.  I’ve managed to learn to be a grownup about every other food, but those little white things?  Cheerios on the floor. Sigh.

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    @scav:

    What is amazing to me is everyone, everyone, says water chestnuts don’t taste like anything

    Not me!  I think they have an unpleasant taste, maybe kind of earthy?  Hard to describe, but I don’t like it.  I don’t know for sure that I’m a super taster, but I am surely in the neighborhood.

  113. 113.

    SFAW

    @japa21:

    I agree with Omnes re: celery in cole slaw.

    PSA: Can someone do a wellness check on Omnes, to make sure he hasn’t harmed himself (due to my agreeing with him)?

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