Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

The lights are all blinking red.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

People are complicated. Love is not.

So many bastards, so little time.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

Come on, man.

We still have time to mess this up!

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.

Motown is Joe-Town!

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

It’s a new day. Light all those Biden polls of young people on fire and throw away the ashes.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Big Normie Energy

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Big Normie Energy

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Interesting TPM post from Josh Marshall… (remember, sharing is caring!) — Big Normie Energy:

… Earlier this year a lot of people were operating on the assumption that the Democratic policy agenda is more popular with Americans and that President Biden is unpopular and old, both literally and metaphorically. So basically any other Democrat under 60 who’s got a little electoral success under their belt would be on course to defeating Trump, or at least doing substantially better than Biden.

That assumption was always highly questionable. Indeed polls provided consistent evidence that it was not the case. Polls aren’t everything of course. But it’s polls — Biden’s lackluster polls — that provide the premise of the whole conversation. So it’s not like we can easily dismiss them. But it’s not only the practical difficulty of swapping Biden out for someone else or giving up the incumbency which historically is the single greatest advantage to being elected president. There are important attributes of Biden himself.

It’s certainly not the only one, but the AP highlights a key one. Quite simply, Democrats are far more angry and frightened about a Trump presidency than Republicans are about another Biden one. 6 in 10 Democrats say they’d be “fearful” or “angry” about another Trump presidency whereas only 4 in 10 Republicans say the same about Biden…

This gets to one of the guy’s underlying strengths. He’s just not demonizable in the way Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama or a lot of other Democrats have been. Is that because he’s a white man? That’s definitely part of it. But it’s not all of it. One of his advantages is precisely that he is old. He’s been doing this for half a century. People know who he is. Joe Biden is just the apotheosis of Normie-dom. He’s also always been essentially a median Democrat. He’ll be pretty much where the center of gravity of his party is. And the center of gravity of the Democratic party is in a substantially more social-democratic place than it was a generation ago. And because of that so is he.

These facts about Biden aren’t things that get people super excited necessarily. But they’re a big reason for his political strength. And they’re at the center of why, despite many claims that he’s the only Democrat who could lose to Donald Trump, quite the opposite might be true.

To be clear, I’m not big on there being irreplaceable people. Put me still in the camp that Trump is a brittle candidate and one who I think will lose. But again, this is the heart of Biden’s strength. He radiates an underlying decency and normalness, and that makes him hard for the GOP to effectively demonize.

 
And in ‘polar opposite’ GOP news… Donald Trump has posted a $175 million bond to avert asset seizure while he appeals the civil fraud penalty, court filing says.… fronted by a used car salesman. Here’s a starter for today’s discussions:

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  5. 5.

    sdhays

    Wait, so Trump got his bond (and loans) from Mr. Hankey? Now it makes sense.

    (For the people with good taste, and therefore don’t get the reference, Mr. Hankey is a magical piece of 💩 in South Park.)

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    I agree with Marshall 100% here:

    [Biden will] be pretty much where the center of gravity of his party is. And the center of gravity of the Democratic party is in a substantially more social-democratic place than it was a generation ago. And because of that so is he.

    It’s the argument I used to ensure the youthful (and not so youthful) socialists in my life wouldn’t defect in 2020.

    Regarding the Axos bank dealio, it sounds like a classic “if you owe the bank $10K, the bank owns you; if you owe the bank $225M, you own the bank” scenario

    @sdhays: I use the South Park Mr. Hankey image in my phone contacts for our septic tank service. ;)

  12. 12.

    Baud

    @Betty:

    He’ll be Secretary of Transportation in a Trump administration.

    Where the only acceptable form of transportation will be used cars.

  14. 14.

    hueyplong

    @Betty Cracker: No way either of these things (RE loans, appeal bond) will be paid by Trump, who will stiff the bond and himself be stiff by 2032 (if not this year).  I think we know the extent to which the Trump “empire” will survive his descent to the fiery furnace.

    To the extent they’re publicly traded and you have lots of disposable cash, you might consider shorting both, especially if you’re betting that Trump loses this election.

    The Truth Social investors will be sorted from the wheat this and next month.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    @hueyplong:

    Someone can correct me, but that’s not usually how appeal bonds work. The bond only gets paid if Trump loses his appeal and he lacks the assets to cover the payment. There’s nothing to “short.”

  17. 17.

    TBone

    Everything he touches dies and that means the turd Mr. Hankey will be flushed down the golden toilet like a dead goldfish.  Eventually. It might take a few tries 🤣 This gives me another reason to live long enough to see it.

  18. 18.

    cmorenc

    Recall in 1988, when Michael Dukakis was leading George H. Bush in the polls by a substantial margin in late spring 1988.  Until Bush’s campaign really got to working over Dukakis in early summer (yeah, so they went dirty and used “Willie Horton”, but point made is that a well-targeted, coordinated message can abrade and heavily erode a Presidential opponent in the 6-8 months prior to election.

  19. 19.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Another post confirming that Joe is the best president of my lifetime and probably wouldn’t have been if he’d been successful in his first or second bid.

  20. 20.

    lowtechcyclist

    So Trump already owes at least $430,000,000 and probably a good deal more (given that seven of his debts are for “over $50,000,000” but we have no idea how much over $50M they are), even if he wins all of his appeals.  I’m thinking these judgments may clean him out.

  22. 22.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cmorenc:

    Recall in 1988, when Michael Dukakis was leading George H. Bush in the polls by a substantial margin in late spring 1988.

    Similarly, Kerry was leading Shrub for most of the spring and summer of 2004. And we know how that turned out.

  23. 23.

    schrodingers_cat

    I had the misfortune of attending a lecture by a global communist last week. What’s worse is I was one of the organizers. It was worse than I imagined.

  25. 25.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: The chair of our DTC (Democratic Town Committee, wanted to host this person who is pretty famous in lefty circles). Our chair is a committed leftie but puts in a lot of work. Including filing all the paper work, canvassing etc. I got roped in because I am in the exec committee.

    I tried to warn the chair of the tirades of this famous tankie against the US before the talk. Anyhow the talk went ahead. I am wondering if I should say anything and give the Chair my honest opinion of what I thought of the tankie blowhard.

  26. 26.

    Another Scott

    Nomie government, pushed by the people to do more, is good.

    Meanwhile, … Judd Legum at Popular.info:

    Notably, the surge in corporate profits since 2020 has been fueled, in part, by expanding corporate profit margins. Last year, corporate profit margins (excluding the financial sector) were over 15%, a level not seen since the 1950s. This is because the increases in prices for goods and services have outpaced the increase in costs — both labor and non-labor — for corporations.

    According to an analysis from the Groundwork Collaborative, “corporate profits drove 53 percent of inflation during the second and third quarters of 2023 and more than one-third since the start of the pandemic.” In the four decades prior to the pandemic, corporate profits contributed to just 11% of price increases.

    Theoretically, this should not happen. Corporations should not be able to dramatically increase their profit margins by increasing prices because competitors should step in with lower prices and steal market share. So what’s going on?

    Greg Ip, who writes about economics for the Wall Street Journal, suggests that corporations are collectively taking advantage of consumer psychology. Supply shocks related to the pandemic created widespread cost increases that consumers accepted. Although those supply shocks have dissipated, many businesses have maintained higher prices anyway. “If people are paying $3 for a dozen eggs last week, they’ll pay $3 this week. And firms take advantage of that,” Yale University economist Mike Sinkinson explained.

    Lots of economics is “sticky”. Lots of consumer choice is actually limited – e.g. if giant cereal conglomerates control all the shelf space in the store via restrictive contracts, then cheaper alternatives may not be easy to find. That’s yet another reason why government needs to step in when things get out of balance. The solution here is to increase corporate taxes and enforce laws about anticompetitive behavior.

    Biden and Democrats want to do that. GQPers don’t.

    Yet another winning message to get out to the normies.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Good on you for being a team player. Sorry the event was disappointing.

    I’ll be honest, I find most intellectual stuff disappointing these days. Not sure if it’s me or the state of intellectualism right now.

  29. 29.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Our guest was a famous credentialed (PhD, ex-academic) idiot.

    If you didn’t know that this person was a leftie and just started listening in the middle of the speech you truly wouldn’t be able to distinguish it from a MAGA speech. The same NATO bashing, and the US bashing.

    This speaker quoted approvingly from T’s inaugral speech.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    @Baud:

    I’ve been getting back into math and science stuff. That’s the type of intellectual knowledge that is reality based rather than polemical.

  35. 35.

    hueyplong

    @Baud: My bad on being unclear as to what’s being shorted.  I’d short the insurance company and the bank.  They’re going to be hit by shareholder suits.  [It’s obvious that the bullshit Truth stock co will get sued]

  38. 38.

    Spanky

    @Baud:

    I’ll be honest, I find most intellectual stuff disappointing these days. Not sure if it’s me or the state of intellectualism right now.

    It might be that the state of intellectualism is the same it ever was. ‘Tis we who have grown up.

  40. 40.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: It was somewhat of a past time for me in college and school. It had fallen by the wayside during gradschool and after. My mother made me take the AP equivalents of two series of drawing tests when I was in school. They come in handy if you want to become an architect or other art related stuff. She is the artist in the family.

  44. 44.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Focusing on what students need to succeed in intro courses in college. COVID has decimated math prep of high school students. They have no idea of basics like the Pythagoras Thm.

    Problem solving peppered with real life examples and history. Making math more accessible.

  46. 46.

    UncleEbeneezer

    The whole notion of “but I should be excited to vote for someone” is really fucking childish and dumb and really no different than the “would like to have a beer with them” bullshit that the MSM loves to push.  It will always piss me off that so many people act like voting for someone to run our government needs to be exciting in order for them to do the bare minimum to protect everyone else’s rights and centuries of progress.  If protecting abortion, voting rights, LGBTQ rights, Obamacare, Green Energy, etc., isn’t enough to excite you, that says a whole lot about YOU (none of it good).

  49. 49.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Good luck. From what I understand, being a successful YouTuber is really hard work. But if you’re doing it for your satisfaction, it should be easy to do.

  53. 53.

    Marcopolo

    @schrodingers_cat: Ha ha, about 40 years ago I was involved in a similar situation when the well meaning group I was a part of brought in Louis Farrakhan to speak at an inaugural MLK Day celebration. We’d humbly asked the Black Students Union who would be a good choice—pretty sure they had a good laugh at our expense when Farrakhan started lecturing the “privileged white scholars” in the audience on how terrible they were.  Not the aspirational speech I think we were hoping for.  Of course, we should have done some vetting ourselves but this was before the inter tubes & his profile wasn’t quite as high back then.  Excellent learning experience though!

  54. 54.

    Anyway

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Our guest was a famous credentialed (PhD, ex-academic) idiot.

    If you didn’t know that this person was a leftie and just started listening in the middle of the speech you truly wouldn’t be able to distinguish it from a MAGA speech. The same NATO bashing, and the US bashing.

    This speaker quoted approvingly from T’s inaugral speech.

    Who was it? Noam Chomsky?

    It was a public event, right?

  55. 55.

    narya

    @Baud: I’ve been reading a lot more fiction–there’s a lot of good SF/F out there, and I’m plowing through various detective/murder mysteries, and I’m also trying to revive my interest in fancy needlework of various sorts. The latter is going slowly; I’ve done multiple large petit-point works–tapestries, basically–but they feel like too much, so I’m doing some smaller stuff that requires less thinking. I’m also trying to give myself some space; I’ve spent a lot of time out east, before and after my dad died, and that also takes up mental room.

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Betty Cracker: This is why Gaza is such a politically dangerous wedge: there’s a sincere, intense split within the Democratic Party and nobody is at the center of gravity.

  60. 60.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: The reality is that I’m not going to have beers with them or be friends with them and I can find entertainment from other people who do that best.  If they have charisma and a sparkling personality, cool, doesn’t bother me but that should never really be in the calculus of whether they deserve my vote or not.

  61. 61.

    rikyrah

    The first tweet is just an example of what I honestly believe it President Biden’s superpower. His length in government, and his ability to understand the ins and outs. And, putting in people who understand the ins and outs.

    Not only this healthcare tweet, but, the law that he’s using to help a lot of people with student loans that’s 30 years old.

    He wants to use government TO HELP PEOPLE. Time and time again, he’s trying to help people.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Agreed. Charisma is an asset in a candidate to get low information normies on board. Something to take into account in a contested primary. Not something a thoughtful person should consider in deciding whether and how to vote in a general election.

  65. 65.

    Gin & Tonic

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah the question is how to do it diplomatically.

    I have given up on that approach. In fact, I got in an argument with the chair of a board I serve on last night. I made a motion to authorize some expenditure up to $x, and he started picking it apart. I said “you don’t like it, make your own damn motion – mine has the floor now.”

  67. 67.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: I love Indian textiles especially cottons and silks. There are some cotton weaves that feel like silk (they are not cheap) but wow when you were them you feel like you are floating on clouds.

  68. 68.

    Jeffro

    I cannot imagine being dumb enough to loan the orange con man hundreds of millions of dollars.

    I mean, I’m never going to be mistaken for Einstein (or even Einstein’s second cousin, three times removed) but I am not that dumb.

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: They have no idea of basics like the Pythagoras Thm.

    Heh, I know dumb ass carpenters who never got thru HS algebra that know the Pythagorean Theorem. Of course, most of them have no idea they know it. They just do the 3-4-5 to square up walls/foundations etc.

  73. 73.

    narya

    @Baud: My maternal grandmother (who could do anything with any kind of yarn, fabric, or thread–I still remember a dress she embroidered for me when I was 6 or so) put a needle and thread in my hands when I was 5, to teach me cross-stitch. My mother sews, my sister was a knitter, and I’ve mostly done fancy needlework (embroidery, crewel work, needlepoint, petit-point), so it’s always been in my life. Part of the fabric of my life, if you will. :-)

    ETA: there’s a meditative aspect to it that is wonderful, and, on top of that, you get this actual THING out of the process, one tiny stitch at a time.

  75. 75.

    catclub

    @hueyplong: I guessed that was what you meant.

     

    However, beware!, the stock market can stay insane longer than you can stay solvent shorting its insanity.

  77. 77.

    schrodingers_cat

    @narya: My grandmother was mother is an excellent knitter, crocheter, can sew like a dream. I find those things extremely tedious. I can do them but I don’t at all enjoy it. I need a faster pay off. So its paints and pencils for me.

  81. 81.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: The frustrating thing about math and science stuff is that there are certain subjects that attract cranks, to the point that it becomes difficult to talk about them in a public forum. And when that intersects with low-quality clickbait it gets even worse.

    Facebook discovered that I like space and astronomy content, but Facebook groups about space pictures are just poisoned unless they’re heavily moderated–it’s all clickbait posts that start with an inaccurately captioned, stolen picture, and all the comments will be flat-earthers yelling “FAKE NASA CGI” and people arguing with them.

  83. 83.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I voted in the WI primary this morning.  My polling place had a steady stream of people flowing through.  We’ll see how uninstructed does in Madison.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    But while hundreds of thousands of new residents have flocked to the state on the promise of beautiful weather, no income tax and lower costs, nearly 500,000 left in 2022, according to the most recent census data. Contributing to their move was a perfect storm of soaring insurance costs, a hostile political environment, worsening traffic and extreme weather, according to interviews with more than a dozen recent transplants and longtime residents who left the state in the past two years.

    This is Betty Crackers’s theory of Florida politics – she wrote Florida used to be fun and quirky and now it’s full of mean-spirited wingnuts.
    We used to vacation there with my youngest on his spring break (he’s now 21 so probably when he was 9 to about 12) and it was fun – we went to Cocoa Beach which was this odd mix of surfers and buttoned- up “space coast” engineer types. We stopped going when it started to get nasty.

  85. 85.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: I feel the same way, but unfortunately thoughtful individuals don’t decide our elections, so we’ll keep bumping into this issue. It sucks!

  87. 87.

    Marcopolo

    @OzarkHillbilly: Hey, where you are outside of StL will you be in the eclipse band next Mon?  I’ll be heading out to join up w/ friends across the river in southern IL (I’m driving down for the day, they’re doing a weekend camping thing).  Looks like we may just have clear skies.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    While Florida has an unemployment rate below the national average, Blaski and others said wages weren’t enough to keep up with their expenses. The median salary in Florida is among the lowest in the country, according to payroll processor ADP.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They want a candidate who is charismatic for exacty the reason you said though – they want to win. They want to bring in normies and win. And “oratory” is too narrow a description of charisma. Biden is less articulate than Obama but Biden comes off as warmer than Obama, which is part of charisma too.

    They’re voting for electabiity, not a personal preference. It’s the opposite of “what I want is important!”. It’s “I need to loomk at what other voters (normies) find appealing” – they may be wrong but that’s what they’re doing.

  92. 92.

    TheflipPsyd

    Good morning,  regarding polls and where people are with Trump. I have noticed  that practically everyone in my life who is not a political junkie, is avoiding any news about politics. I have had multiple people say to me they turn off or don’t listen to anything about Trump or Biden. They seem literally in pain when there is any discussion of the upcoming election and what might happen.  They are  avoiding anything that makes them have to think about it.

    I was thinking that maybe there are way more people out there who feel that way  and just want to focus on getting through daily life. But also are aware that if Trump becomes president again, life gets harder.

    Then I wonder what do all those people do when it’s time to vote? Do they not show up or do they decide to vote against Trump so they don’t have to think about it anymore. The regular voters I know plan on voting. It’s the ones who aren’t as regular I don’t know about.

    I just feel like the whole world has PTSD. I see in my job every day how much people are struggling with daily living and their mental health. The three main signs of PTSD are physiological arousal, flashbacks/re experiencing the event and avoidance. Everyone in the world probably has been exhibiting at least one of the main signs, avoidance. And avoidance is not helpful for moving past the trauma. Avoidance doesn’t reduce all the emotional reactions and so people avoid more, but don’t feel better as a result.  And then does that lead to another four years of Trump. Or is the desire to have normalcy strong enough that Biden wins another four years.

    I want to believe that people who are actively avoiding will come out in November.

  93. 93.

    Marcopolo

    @Betty Cracker: An article I read this morning said that WCK had coordinated their operation—moving food shipments from boats to a warehouse— in advance w/ the IDF.  Just incomprehensible (like so much other stuff happening there).

  94. 94.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Watching the state morph from Margaritaville to Jonestown has been awful. I hope we can turn things around.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    That’s what I said. In a primary, it makes sense to consider electability. But once there’s a nominee, I don’t think your a serious person if you’re complaining about lack of charisma.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Marcopolo: Some old Arkie friends are having a wkend long hootenanny to celebrate the totality (I had all of them up here for the last one), so that where the wife and I will be. My eldest son and his family are doing the same as you, going to a friend’s place in S IL.

    @schrodingers_cat: Nice.

  99. 99.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: But I don’t think they generally complain about lack of charisma. They perceive lack of charisma, but what they say is “where is Biden? He hasn’t done anything”.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s now being widely reported that Biden is working on a big deal rather than a short term ceasefire, which is what the opponents were afraid of and they are going to feel they were misled. My heart just sank when I read it. They’re going to be fucking furious. This is what they said was going on and it is what’s going on :

    White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan will travel to Saudi Arabia to meet with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Thursday about a potential mega-deal that would include Saudi normalization with Israel.

    Why it matters: With the war in Gaza ongoing and the U.S. presidential election just seven months away, White House officials admit there’s a slim chance they can pull off the historic peace agreement. Sullivan’s trip shows President Biden is still determined to pursue it.

     

  101. 101.

    catclub

    @Betty Cracker: KoolAid margaritas! delightful!

    OTOH:  Didn’t the two Constitutional ballot measures win access to the fall ballot? That could improve Democrats chances in FL.

  102. 102.

    Manyakitty

    @narya: you’re also an amazing cook and baker, right? What if you started a ‘life by the bite’ project? Think of a food with a strongly-associated memory, write down the memories along with the recipes.

  103. 103.

    Marcopolo

    @Kay: This was a good read, and not just because it affirmed my priors. It gave me a good window into how rising costs (specific to FL) are shredding quality of life there.  A couple of folks mentioned needing to replace roofs due to insurance terms.  Or how getting home insurance is through the roof (pun intended).  It was nice that the interviews were focused on real things happening to people instead of vibes or feelings (aside from the comments about how FL politics seems to make public interactions more fraught).

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump said one true thing about DeSantis. He said Florida makes it easy and (implied) only a moron could fuck it up. It’s true. Location, location, location. Trump would recognize that

    Florida has location. Only a moron could fuck it up.

  106. 106.

    rikyrah

    @Betty Cracker:

    @Kay: Watching the state morph from Margaritaville to Jonestown has been awful. I hope we can turn things around.

     

    What a way with words…LOL

     

    Hope that you are much better and completely on the mend, BC

  109. 109.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: On Usenet back in the day, the #1 physics crankery magnet was special relativity–everyone had some “disproof” of it that usually was something or other about the twin paradox, or some way you could transmit information faster than light. And eventually the creationists got into it.

    The space program denialists feel like they’re doubling down–the original moon-landing conspiracists were milquetoast by today’s standards; they actually thought most of the space program was real, they just hadn’t actually gone to the Moon. The modern ones think SPACE is fake and the Earth is a flat surface under a domed firmament.

  111. 111.

    tam1MI

    Meanwhile, in Michigan, Representative Tim Walberg called for nuking Gaza. I can guaran-fucking-tee you that the “Uncommitted” crowd will not be at his next public appearance protesting his remarks. They reserve their venom for Democrats only and their energy for their real goal – throwing the election to Donald Trump.

  112. 112.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Subsole: The antisemitic far right associates global capitalism and finance with The Jews so they bash it for that reason, and the libertarian types (some of whom are the same people or adjacent) are big into goldbuggery and hate modern finance for that reason. It can make it hard to distinguish their stuff from left critiques of capitalism, and there’s definite horseshoe activity in the intersection. I think that’s actually part of what happned to Matt Taibbi though it’s not the main story.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    @Marcopolo:

    When my daughter finished grad school she was recruited by a Florida practice. I sat with her and her husband we looked at real estate online. Florida weren’t competitive enough on salary given what their expenses would be. She and her husband ended up taking positions in a college town in NY. It’s a nice quality of life but bad weather. But they’re used to weather. She’s from NW OH and he’s from Pittsburgh. Their 4 year old already has her first hockey skates :)

    She got a really good offer in West Virginia – nice salary, low expenses – but she’s a liberal and that was just a bridge too far.

  114. 114.

    frosty

    @schrodingers_cat: Congratulations on your eBay purchase! I love drafting gear – I still have all my Dad’s electrical engineering templates along with mine. Four scales: Architect, Civil Engineer, CE with 1″=25′ for Virginia (everyone else uses 1″=20′) and CE Metric, for that brief time period when it looked like we’d convert.

    Finally tossed the Rapidograph set though, after a couple of decades without being used.

  115. 115.

    frosty

    @Kay:This year’s Snowbird Road Trip may be our last to Florida – we’re tired of supporting DeSantis’s economy. Arizona for us next year despite the long drive. It’s time to see some new places, too.

    @Betty Cracker: ​ Margaritaville to Jonestown is a good description. I hope you can turn it around too. I’ll miss camping in the state parks – some of the best in the country.

  116. 116.

    hueyplong

    @catclub: That line (about markets staying irrational longer than you can stay solvent) is one of my favorites of all time.

    The truth is that the one percenters welcome down periods because only they stay solvent during them, while the middles and lower get shaken out, having to cash out to meet obligations when things are at their lowest.  The rich then get richer buying on the bottom of the cycle and sitting back to enjoy the upswing.

    They know they’re overdue for another shakeout (rendering the workforce scared and compliant) and they’re pissed at the delay in its coming.  Just prior to the election is their dream.

  117. 117.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    She got a really good offer in West Virginia – nice salary, low expenses – but she’s a liberal and that was just a bridge too far.

    LOL

  119. 119.

    Marcopolo

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sounds like fun.  We did the eclipse 7 years ago outside of Carbondale @ an old BS or GS camp.  This year will be at a place an hour closer.  And with yurts 🛖, for which some of my friends are very excited.  My main goal, aside from experiencing the eclipse, is to avoid the worst of the traffic.

  122. 122.

    rikyrah

    @hueyplong:

    They know they’re overdue for another shakeout (rendering the workforce scared and compliant) and they’re pissed at the delay in its coming.  Just prior to the election is their dream

     

    I maintain they want to cause a recession , which is why all these layoffs in the beginning of the year.

    The infrastructure bill is the thing keeping the economy going, because the corporations want to throw us into a recession.

  124. 124.

    Marcopolo

    @Kay: My parents are from NW Ohio (Van Wert & Bryan).  AFAIK the absolutely most conservative part of the state.  Last time we visited the locals were complaining about all the “windmills” being built & how they were ruining the views & would mess up the economy (jobs were too high paying for the locals?!?).

  125. 125.

    Kay

    @frosty:

    We liked Arizona – we went last year. I had been before.

    bBut ultimately we’re cold weather people – we’re retiring to coastal Michigan, NY (daughter) and Copenhagen (son) :)

  126. 126.

    Kay

    @Marcopolo:

    Ha! I got an offer on my house (it’s higher priced for NW OH) last year from a wind turbine worker.

    they do well but they work a lot. 50-60 hours a week with travel.

  127. 127.

    Geminid

    @Kay: The US is working even harder on the ceasefire. That’s the short term and more urgent goal, and is a prerequisite for any progress in other areas.

    CIA Director Burns is Biden’s representative in the ceasefire/hostage negotiations. Sullivan is working towards a medium/long term goal, and his efforts do not detract from Burns’.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    They better send an emissary to Dearborn to explain then because  this will be seen as trading 10,000 dead Palestinian children for a regional deal.
    Or find +\- 40k new D voters in MI.

  131. 131.

    Citizen Alan

    @Baud: Intellectualism by definition is not grounded in reality but in tge intellectual’s belief about how world should be. My main objection to communism is not how it has been an utter failure everywhere it’s actually been tried in real life, but rather the fact that communism seems to overlook fundamental aspects of human nature to the point that I can’t see how it would ever work anywhere.

  132. 132.

    Manyakitty

    @Kay: as if they’d bother to listen. All I hear from you is how the Dearborn Muslims will throw the election, but they told the Biden reps to pound salt when they tried to sit down with them. Please, o magical genius, tell us the secrets.

    By the way, cease fires go both ways. Hamas is a big part of the problem, despite what the Dearborn Muslims convinced you to think.

    I wish you cared even a fraction as much about the effect of your words on the Jewish people who read them.

  134. 134.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Anyone in Dearborn who follows this story closely already knows that.

    The same reporter you cite, Barak Ravid of Axios, has reported on the ceasefire/hostage talks. You can read those articles too if you want context for the Saudi story, or if you want to judge the importance Biden attaches to this effort. You would find the course and substance of these negotiations informative also.

  135. 135.

    mrmoshpotato

    Joe Biden, through his understanding of government and his ability to hire the most qualified people, has made our government work better for everyday Americans simply by fixing already existing programs.

    It’s life changing.

    And guess what: it’s because he’s old & experienced.

    Yes!  Shout it from the rooftops!  (And shout at the “Waaaaaahhhh, he’s OOOOLLLLDDDD!” crowd to STFU!”)

    Go Joe – you old, experienced, awesome President!

  138. 138.

    hueyplong

    @TheflipPsyd: A lot of what you say rings true.  Extrapolating a little in order to be optimistic, let’s say people desperately avoiding politics are absolutely avoiding pollsters.  And not one of them is a Trump cult member (because those people are definitely not avoiding politics– they’re getting a fix every day).

    It’s the kind of unrecognized chunk of the electorate that leads to Biden sweeping the swing states and winning big, powered by Dobbs and the utter repugnancy of Trump, who is about 2 bad news cycles from threatening death camps.

  139. 139.

    catclub

    @rikyrah: If the recession were happening _right now_  it would probably affect the election.  Much later and there is not enough time for it to have an impact.

    Obviously, with moderate inflation and extremely high employment now, there is no recession anywhere near the US economy. This is very good news for Biden.

  142. 142.

    Manyakitty

    @schrodingers_cat: yeah, I remember that. Was ugly then, is still ugly now.

    ETA: we all have blind spots. Instead of digging in when someone points them out, we’re supposed to find ways to improve. Sigh.

  143. 143.

    Eyeroller

    @Manyakitty:As a state actor with access to a lot of resources, Israel has a responsibility to be much more cautious about “collateral damage” than it has been (viz. these “mistakes” and “incidents” like the WCK one that keep happening). But Hamas regards dead civilians, including children, as “martyrs” to their cause and if anything may care even less about civilian deaths. They’ve torpedoed cease-fires and hostage exchanges. And that’s not whataboutism, it’s a fact. However, it’s pretty certain that Israel has passed a point of diminishing returns and they should take that into consideration.

  144. 144.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Manyakitty: Some of these (mostly) white progressives only want minorities in the coalition to tell them how wonderful they are. They want us to be their amen chorus or we can just STFU. They cannot abide by the fact that you could have thoughts that are different.

  145. 145.

    Manyakitty

    @Eyeroller: sure. Honestly, at this point, I’m not sure Bibi is distinguishable from the evil of Hamas. He fooled plenty of people into thinking he’d keep Israel safe, but it’s more likely that he’ll destroy it.

    My larger point is that a cease fire isn’t just up to Israel. Sure, they can pull back, but it’s meaningless without agreements from the other side(s).

  146. 146.

    Manyakitty

    @schrodingers_cat: Democrats are supposed to be a ‘big tent’ party, with the ability to discuss and find points of agreement/compromise. The increasingly polarized nature of our country is putting a lot of pressure on that, and admittedly, monsters like Bibi are intentionally exploiting the weaknesses. In particular, he and Putin are desperate for trump to win because they know he’ll let them destroy Gaza/West Bank and Ukraine.

    Purity ponies need to zoom out and see the big picture, but it’s more fun to complain.

  148. 148.

    Eyeroller

    @Manyakitty: Since I don’t think there are any good short-term outcomes here other than a cessation of fighting, I don’t think it would be meaningless for Israel to pull back. Right now I think what they are doing is counterproductive and is increasing extremism (on both sides).  They would certainly need to beef up security at their southern border, however, and be on high alert for quite a while.  Maybe they should have been so for a long time, certainly before 7 October.

  150. 150.

    rikyrah

    @Manyakitty:

    monsters like Bibi are intentionally exploiting the weaknesses. In particular, he and Putin are desperate for trump to win because they know he’ll let them destroy Gaza/West Bank and Ukraine.

     

    Say it over and over and over again.

    People who are grown and thinking and who don’t see this….

     

    Lips so pursed.

  151. 151.

    Subsole

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Oh yeah. Once I sat and read some more of the guy, I was like, “Oh. Ohhhh no no nonono I have walked into the wrong room entirely.”

    But I could deffo see someone who isn’t paying attention (say, because they are wrapped up in the emotional/aesthetic part of socialism) getting snowed by a person who feeds them select quotes. Maybe not enough to be a full on fashhole. But enough to think there’s something salvageable there, some common ground on economic issues. It’s bullshit of course. Economic issues are smoke, for fascists. Cover for social issues.

  152. 152.

    Manyakitty

    @Eyeroller: Bibi’s hands are soaked in blood from this attack. He got plenty of warnings about this attack and he let it happen. He intentionally left that border under-guarded because it was full of lefty peaceniks. Sound like anyone else you know, who figured he’d let the blue states die of COVID?

  154. 154.

    Subsole

     

    @Kay: Yeah. That emissary can go stand with all the other emissaries we’ve sent. The ones the citizens of Dearborn (who just want us to listen to them, I am told) keep telling to pound sand and refusing to meet with.

    Maybe while we’re doing that we should go talk to the LGBTQ folks who probably didn’t appreciate the people of Dearborn voting with the GOP to ban pride flags.

    Or we could converse with members of the black community who watched an elderly black lady get socked in the head by pro-Palestine protesters who barged into their church and acted the fool for Dearborn.

    Or maybe we can go sit and listen to some Jews, who are writhing in quiet misery and silent terror at the sense that the big tent has left them behind, because they keep seeing vitriol and violence directed at them by cosplaying assholes in Keffiyeh while the rest of the party frets about the feelings of Dearborn.

    I respect you Kay, but how many people are you willing to alienate for these folks? How many people do you want us to look in the eye and say “hey, you should go get fucked for Dearborn!”? 

    Because I am starting to think it’ll be easier to go find 40k to replace the folks who have made it clear nothing we do will ever be good enough rather than find enough people to replace the 400k who seem to be getting entirely sick of their angry threats to sink democracy if we don’t…what, exactly? Send Delta Force to go shove a gun in Bibi’s mouth and force him to accept a ceasefire?

    (Protip: you sure it’s Israel rejecting the ceasefires? It’s all Biden’s fault? You certain Hamas doesn’t get a say in the whole process??)

    I respect their right to their anger. But at some point I have a right to voice my concerns that their anger is dragging everyone under. If they are threatening to land us all in camps for the sake of their anger, that’s not righteous. That’s selfish. If they are willing to watch their own children (and many, many, many others) get rounded up and deported for the sake of that anger, that is not noble. It is perverse.

    I guess if I could see a single, actual concession this has forced, I would at least understand. But I don’t. I do not see how this is strengthening their position. Maybe I am info-siloed, but all I see is people saying “You wanna sit at home and hand us to Trump and the Project 2025 ghouls? OK. Bet.”

    That is…not optimal.

  156. 156.

    Marcopolo

    @rikyrah: thread dead but yes, complaint was these high paying jobs would cause prices to go up locally hurting folks.

  157. 157.

    RevRick

    @Baud: @schrodingers_cat:  I majored in Chemistry in college, but I took four semesters of economics, and I have always been a history buff. I’ve read the entire Oxford History of the U.S. series, pounds of wonderfulness.

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