.@Biden introduces @eltonofficial at the Stonewall National Monument Visitor Center Grand Opening Ceremony in New York City pic.twitter.com/0Y41TIeKzO
— Skylar Woodhouse (@SkylarWoodhouse) June 28, 2024
Fired up and ready to re-elect Joe Biden at the largest ever LGBTQ+ fundraiser for a Democratic Presidential candiate in history.
This administration is strong. This campaign is strong, and when LGBTQ+ voters show up in November we are going to win this election. pic.twitter.com/s8cjDiXzFN
— Sam Alleman (he/him) (@SamAlleman) June 29, 2024
MUST WATCH — Elton John: "NO FUCKING WAY"
Elton joins Biden at Stonewall National Monument during Pride Month 2024. pic.twitter.com/NqRZAVrj24
— urbryo (@UrBroYo) June 28, 2024
https://t.co/F68ZDlS8Ny pic.twitter.com/RvUjFnmReQ
— vocational politics appreciation account (@Convolutedname) June 28, 2024
Watching the pundit class having a collective brain freeze when US polls barely move as a result of the debate will be fascinating to watch
— Alexander Clarkson ? (@APHClarkson) June 28, 2024
The mothers’ milk of politics…
hello fox pic.twitter.com/7eEIj8FAwe
— Rob Flaherty (@Rob_Flaherty) June 28, 2024
???? pic.twitter.com/cVeUB94bK2
— Biden-Harris HQ (@BidenHQ) June 28, 2024
As pundits cried for Biden to drop out, focus groups leaned toward Biden and money flowed in https://t.co/R1S3cRWe9y
— Florida Data Geek ?????? (@MappingFL) June 28, 2024
By the way @POTUS and @VP fill me with optimism.
We have the chance to remake everything if we can Blue Wave.
Roe,equity, education,equality, tech, climate change the whole enchilada.
One day a Black Woman President.
And a world where fascists fight to be heard. https://t.co/p1o77aE0Fa
— Biden/Harris 2024 (@GregProops) June 28, 2024
Beltway pundits try to force a "Democrats calling for Biden to drop out" narrative.
Top party leaders weigh into support Biden
Beltway pundits get pissed.
— Ragnarok Lobster 🐺 (@eclecticbrotha) June 28, 2024
I wish people in the media would be honest that pushing for Biden to drop out is good for a media spectacle, their careers, and the revenue for news corporations but is absolutely terrible for ensuring Trump doesn't return to the Oval office. https://t.co/6H1yGWsYy3
— Alex ????? ?? ????? (@JewishWonk) June 28, 2024
======
Schadenfreude sidebar, for those who like a nice salty pickle with their meal:
BREAKING: The Supreme Court rejected a bid to delay a prison sentence for Trump ally Steve Bannon as he appeals his conviction for defying a subpoena in the congressional investigation into the U.S. Capitol insurrection. https://t.co/iT1MLaXQSy
— The Associated Press (@AP) June 28, 2024
If you are interested in a dopamine injection, here is Steve Bannon’s farewell rant before he reports to prison. pic.twitter.com/BLWgrnu43V
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) June 29, 2024
Ten Bears
The pundit class lacks the fundamental ingredient for a brain freeze
Dagaetch
I hope the campaign declares all out war on the pundits and editorialists. It’s not like anyone whose vote matters actually likes them, hell it would probably gain Biden some votes to continually trash the FTFNYT.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all!
Traveling backwards in time today, about 50-60 years. In other words, driving up from the coast to my hometown of Meridian to visit for a few hours.
p.a.
US Punditocracy devolves into reacting like local news station weather reporting*: sending 5 reporters out on a day with 3 inches of snow. lookLookLOOK! panicPanicPANIC! WATCH US!!!
*granted, maybe 3″ is a snow-pocalypse in some parts of the nation. 😉
TBone
“Eeee-pock Times” 😆😆😆
TBone
Church of Nothin’ But the Truth!
🎶🩷
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8QxIIz1yEsA&feature=youtu.be
Did he name his dog
“Bitchez?”
😆😆😆
“C’mon, Bitchez!”
In honor of Black
twitterxitter, as Jasmine Crockett pronounces itKay
I’m going to a Sherrod fundraiser at a fancy person’s house tonight – I’ll report back on what I hear about Biden.
Nukular Biskits
@p.a.:
“Snow”? What’s that?😉
different-church-lady
Failed gubernatorial candidate says what?
gene108
The media really loves Trump. There’s no rational reason to shrug off 34 felony convictions as no big deal, but Biden has to go over one bad debate performance other than the media loves Trump.
I feel like 99% of the DC press wear must be wearing MAGA gear, when they’re not on the air.
TBone
Ridin’ with Biden 🏳️🌈🇺🇸🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EIRdcewDjFU
Snow.
moonbat
Thanks for this, AL!
I have to remind myself sometimes to watch for the GQP/failed news media to tell us who they DON’T want to run against in the run up to an election. They love to try and pick our candidate/their opponent. This time around it is still Joe Biden they fear. They’re pulling out all the stops to try to get us to abandon him.
I’m proud to have been part of his fundraising surge post-debate!
Baud
This might be a situation where normies >>> tuned in liberals. We’ll see how it shakes out.
Baud
@Kay:
Fancy person? My bet is negative.
trnc
Dear Jonathan Martin,
Joe Biden had one bad night and was much better the next day.
Donald Trump was a convicted felon and epic liar that same night and still was the next day.
HTH.
Nukular Biskits
I was just about to post, “Where the hell is Baud?”
I was getting worried!
Kay
@Baud:
We’ll see. I’m open to hearing what people have to say. We all have a stake in this.
Baud
@Kay:
It is what it is.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: I think a lot of “normies” had never seen a full trump performance before. The clips they may see on the news don’t really capture the full-on lunacy, lies and hate.
TBone
Up yours, pundits! 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXWbMu4PtpE
kindness
I still wonder how any gay people can support any Republican, the party that has stated it’s intention to nuke Olbergfell & Lawrence. How can someone support taking away their own right to marry and have sex partners of their own choosing? Rich idiots like Theil I can kind of get. He wants to protect his billions more and feels those billions will save him from the effects of the crazy haters in his party. That didn’t work out very well for the gays (or wealthy conservative Jews) in 1930s Germany. America’s fascists are no different from the old German ones.
stinger
Our candidate is old. Their candidate is awaiting sentencing for 34 felonies. We’re not the ones who should be looking for a new candidate.
A Ghost to Most
Eeyores gonna eeyore.
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
A possible silver lining is that Trump may be encouraged to double down on a long term bad strategy. If Biden had pants’d him as we had all hoped, he might have been convinced to change course.
All speculation, of course. We’ll just have to let it play out.
Baud
@kindness:
Baud
@A Ghost to Most:
Trump winning was a realistic possibility before the debate and it still is a realistic possibility.
ETA: I’m still more concerned about Trump dying and the Republicans replacing him with a younger person who’ll be terrible but won’t be vetted for the normies.
TBone
@stinger: ❤️😘
Nukular Biskits
@kindness:
I wonder how anyone who possesses an ounce of humanity and compassion for their fellow humans can vote for most* Republicans.
I’m not being hyperbolic here. I continue to be of the considered opinion that NO ONE who continues to support/defend/make excuses for Donald Trump has any business in public office … yet, here in MS, every damned statewide office and our entire Congressional delegation sans Rep. Bernie Thompon is filled with people just like that.
*I like to think there are some Republicans who vote GOP based on real principles, like limited gov’t, and not use that as an excuse to let their inner sociopaths out for a run. But I fear there aren’t many of them.
Josie
For me, the operative truth is, if the FTNYT is for it, I am against it. 99% of the time, that works just fine. As a fellow 80 year old, I can testify that Biden can run rings around all the naysayers intellectually and politically. A speech impediment and a bad cold are not dispositive of executive ability.
TBone
The BBC MAGA mockumentary, narrated by David Attenborough, in case you love schadenfreude as much as I do 😆🤣😂
https://youtu.be/HGBloET5r2c
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
That’s what concerns me most about the 2025 Project … it doesn’t require Trump, only a Trumpian Congress and president.
p.a.
@Baud: I’m not sure there’s much conscious calculation going on in tRump’s brain. It’s id + drug intake + squirrel!!! Maybe his kids can keep him within the guardrails (or Ivanka at least. Uday & Qusay are idjits too) but others? He thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. Any “reasonable” appearance is more from chemicals or the fact that he’s in such bad shape he has limited energy.
3Sice
@Dagaetch:
I’d prefer all out war on convictedfelon.
He hate America.
karen marie
I am delighted to hear that Biden not only has support but pulled better numbers than TFG.
I sent money yesterday both to show Biden I support him but also to thumb my nose at the venal media motherfuckers making bank tsk-tsking and saying he should drop out.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: I wonder at your use of the word “strategy” with regard to trump 😉
TBone
Olbermann bringing the 🔥
https://youtu.be/k7XB49adu-Q
(Short clip torching CNN)
Frankensteinbeck
I will reiterate in this thread, because every thread seems to need it:
We won. This wasn’t a loss we need to recover from. We won. Biden’s performance was bad, and it scared me. Trump’s performance was repulsive and the polls and focus groups show independents hated him and blacks and Latinos heard him say they belong in menial jobs.
The media lives for Dem panic, even the liberal parts. White liberals are running around screaming because they only paid attention to Biden. Meanwhile, Trump snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
We won.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
If they win, they get to try to enact their policy agenda. That’s how it works.
RevRick
@Baud: A post-debate poll released by Morning Consult has Biden gaining a point over Trump!
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
He knows how to follow advice. He didn’t testify at his trial, did he?
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Can you even imagine the brawl that would ensue over who gets the honor of taking trumps place on the cross?
ETtheLibrarian
Just had breakfast and they played Here Comes the Sun as I read this post. Going with the song as a sign and not the pundits.
Frankensteinbeck
@RevRick:
Trump snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. He had his chance, Biden was at his worst, and instead Trump bragged about ending Roe vs Wade and ranted like Hitler. Trump was Trump, and millions of people who had heard he was just a clown saw the unfiltered, repulsive, dangerous real thing.
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
As opposed to the brawl that would ensue if Biden stepped down?
Baud
So if Biden at his worst ends up having no effect on the polls, advantage Biden?
Nelle
@gene108: Underneath their clothes, like Mormon underwear.
Percysowner
I didn’t watch the debate, I can’t stand Trump’s voice so didn’t subject myself. I heard how bad it was and did get discouraged. I stayed off all news yesterday and am slowly reading a few places today. I also donated to Biden and gave him monthly donations, because he still is the best chance to keep this country decent.
All we can do is keep on keeping on. Trump was his repulsive self. CNN didn’t fact check. Biden had a bad night. Biden still wins on policy and now has the Supreme Court saying that people should be able to buy poisoned food because they don’t like regulations. That gives us one more issue that will help win. God only knows what issue the Court will bless us with next week. I don’t think it will be full immunity, because if it was, they wouldn’t be dragging their feet.
Chris
Drove to dinner with my roommate last night, who’s a Democrat, mildly political, actually very political in the ways that matter (she’s the one who got me into letter-writing), but not a politics junkie who watches debates, follows every last bit of political news, or posts on blogs like this one. Anyway, this happened:
Her: “So the Internet was full of stuff about how Biden did really bad last night.”
Me: “Yeah, I was following that. He showed up sick to the debate.”
Her: “Oh! That’s what happened? Yeah, no wonder. That was a bad call.”
Me: “Oh sure. But I don’t think he could’ve backed out either, because then…”
Her: “… yeah, no. It’s a lose-lose.”
And then switch topics.
Have these conversations with your normie friends. No need to pretend Biden didn’t have a shit night. No need to shit yourself, proclaim the end of the world, and call for an open convention, either.
TBone
Repost from early a.m. thread:
About Dotard referencing “Putin’s dream” during said debate, Heather Cox Richardson points out some chilling background:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-28-2024
Recommended reading today. Dotard always spills the (polonium) tea.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Ya I thought of that yesterday, would be same scenario. And your response to my snicker at strategy: you’re right, I concede.
p.a.
@Frankensteinbeck: any past evidence of media spin affecting polling post-initial reaction?
Eyeroller
My feeling is that Biden was being set up to fail in this debate. The expectations and pressures were enormous. He was expected to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTFNYT publisher and editorialists that he was cognitively capable. I assume that most of us here are aware that a speech impediment can make a person seem to be cognitively disabled even when that is not the case. Biden controls it very well most of the time so he is never cut any slack for it. His debate preppers also seemed to believe that it was important to counter all the complaints that nobody knows Biden’s policy accomplishments, so crammed him full of facts and figures that were not something in which he is probably particularly interested and may have had trouble remembering. He is supposed to have staff to handle details while he is the big-picture guy.
Obama had a very bad first debate against Romney, but it did not fit nicely into a pre-existing narrative so the reaction was not so over-the-top as we’ve been seeing here. The “Biden is senile” narrative has been a constant drumbeat in the background for over four years now. Nobody can claim they were not influenced by the media when drawing conclusions, unless they have truly had no media consumption at all for more than four years. And I will note that this narrative was first pushed by “progressive” supporters of Bernie. Of course the MSM jumped on it because it fit their prejudices.
Frankensteinbeck
@p.a.:
Absolutely. Biden’s terrible showing in the Democratic primaries, where a large proportion of our voters really wanted someone else.
Oh, wait, that didn’t happen.
karen marie
Does anyone watch Jon Stewart since he started back part-time at the Daily Show?
After he came out hard as a both-sideser, I completely lost interest in and have avoided him. After I watched the Olbermann clip, a Stewart clip popped up. I immediately closed it but it made me wonder if anyone is watching him. I’ve not seen anyone share his clips.
Eyeroller
@RevRick: Statistically meaningless, but everybody seemed to expect Biden to crater, so I’ll take it.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
True, but what I’ve read in Project 2025 is far more radical than anything I’ve seen in the past from Republicans/conservatives.
Soprano2
@Kay: That will be interesting to hear. I think all the pundits who are panicking didn’t want Biden in the first place. The message should have been all about TCFG’s constant lying and not answering the questions. Let R’s talk about Biden’s appearance.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@kindness: You do realize most of the leadership of the Brownshirts were all brazenly gay and openly mocked hetro-sexual men as effete. The answer to your questions is these conservative gays thinking is “I am not gay, I am just a man who fucks other men, it’s those liberals who are the gays”
Chris
@RevRick:
Wasn’t that a poll that would’ve been mostly conducted before the debate, just happened to be the first one released either?
I mean, like I said, I’m not losing it just yet. But if that’s what it is, I’m not sure it means much. (Well, above and beyond the “polls are broken anyway” thing).
JMG
Less than 50 million people watched the debate. That’s less than one-third of the 2020 electorate. It’s likely the debate changed many votes among its audience, who were overwhelmingly committed Republicans or Democrats. How the event will play out among the 100 million plus voters who will read/hear about it second-third-or fourth hand is unknown, and we won’t know for a couple weeks at least.
One more point. The reason the media, especially the Times, hated Hillary was that she did not desert Bill during the Lewinsky deal. They blamed her for not letting their big story drive Bill out of office. They are already prepping the ground to hate Jill Biden on similar grounds. Also Obama and the Clintons, for sticking with Biden. I don’t know what more the Times can do to hit at Joe. Sulzberger knows endorsing Trump would kill his business. So might not endorsing anyone.
3Sice
Hyperpartisan Dems went cringe after 15-20 minutes. Soft supporters, undecideds, those that hung in saw a different debate.
The GOP was pushing this narrative regardless of how it went. IT WAS PRE-CANNED. It’s all they can do with that POS racist uncle.
That Biden’s team got caught flat footed on narrative and spin is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Soprano2
@gene108: I don’t think they love TCFG as much as they love the $ they made when he was president. They find Biden boring to report on; they want the “excitement” of TCFG back.
narya
@Kay: And, hey, feel free to push back as needed if it’s a lot of doom mongering and trying to ditch Joe. :-)
Honestly, in part thanks to some of the folks here, I’m finding it easier to just nip the negativity in the bud. And I’m VERY heartened by the grassroots fundraising numbers.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The reaction here after that debate was much worse than this time. Everyone who watched the first Obama verse Mittens debate on the BBC said Obama nailed it and everyone who watched on an American station was crapping their pants and screaming Obama had to go.
EarthWindFire
@stinger: Yeah. We’re the ones running around with our hair on fire about our old, not a criminal, candidate. It’s no wonder normies give us the side-eye sometimes.
Eyeroller
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Thanks, I remember a lot of hand-wringing and angst but not the chorus of screaming that the candidate had to drop out. If that was the case for Obama as well, then we should not be at all surprised that it happened again.
oldgold
Blame for the debate debacle and its dismal aftermath does not lie with:
a. The debate format;
b. The debate moderators;
c. Biden’s cold;
d. The impossibility of dealing with Trump’s Gish gallop style;
e. The panicked post-debate analysis on CNN and MSNBC;
f. The insufficiently loyal bedwetters; and,
g. The dim-witted punditry class.
It is squarely on Biden for pushing for an insanely early June debate (why?); while knowing, as he admitted yesterday, that his debating skills are diminished, and then, going out on the stage in front of millions and proving it.
TBone
I’m gonna toot my own horn and quote my 6a.m. self from yesterday:
Me:
Also me:
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Chris: Mine was with my soft R coworker
Him laughing “So did you watch the two old men scream at each last night?”
I get the feeling he voted for Nick Haley in the primary and Trump bromance with Putin creeps him out.
zhena gogolia
@gene108: After Trump’s conviction, the NYT editorial board said “let the voters decide.”
Chris
@Eyeroller:
Honestly, this sounds like they bought into the fundamental misunderstanding about these debates that most people have, that they’re supposed to be informative and educational, as opposed to what they actually are, which is pro wrestling for nerds.
Yep. Like I said, this is a master class in successful propaganda, which should be taught and studied for decades to come.
RevRick
@Eyeroller: Understood. But when focus groups of undecideds/ double-haters say it was a tie, then the great freakout is ridiculous.
TBone
@oldgold: also from me, yesterday:
“1. Find a personal space. (Not here.)
2. Find a dildo-shaped object.
3. Go fuck yourself with it.”
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … APNews.com:
Something something millstones of the gods grind late, but they grind fine.
Cheers,
Scott.
TBone
@Another Scott: 🤣🤣🤣❤️
Jackie
@Nukular Biskits:
This. It’s gonna take multiple voting cycles to purge – or drastically dilute – MAGAts from Congress – along with keeping a MAGAt-style president out of the WH.
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: 🤭🤗❤️
( im starting to feel like you and I could get in a lot of trouble together were we not 900 miles apart ymmv)
Captain C
@kindness: They probably figure they can bribe away any consequences for themselves personally and will still come out ahead financially after their Republican tax cuts. And some of them might just straight up like the bigotry.
O. Felix Culpa
Did the FTFNYT editorial board opine that T***p should step down or the GOP run a different candidate after his 34 felony convictions? Or after his firehose of lies and racism at the debate? If not, why not?
Chris
@3Sice:
To reiterate the pro wrestling analogy, hyperpartisan Dems went cringe after 15-20 seconds because hyperpartisan Dems want to see their person UTTERLY DOMINATING every step of the event, and the second it’s the other way around, they absolutely shit themselves. And believe me, I get it; this is exactly how I was after getting barely a glimpse of the first Obama/Romney debate, which is why I never watch these things anymore. The last presidential debates I was able to watch calmly were the Obama/McCain ones, and that’s precisely because I was just barely young and stupid enough at the time that I still believed the whole “McCain’s a moderate,” “both of those candidates will be a huge step up,” “after all aren’t we all Americans here before we’re anything else?” Aaron Sorkin crap. (In other words, because even as a person all-in for Obama, I didn’t yet grasp just how enormous and existential the difference between the parties was).
Starfish
@Baud: A lot of gay people live in red states too. It is just that all the news we get about red states involve Cletus safaris.
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa: As I said a few comments up, they had an editorial on it, which concluded, “Let the voters decide.”
ETA: In the comments on their editorial about Biden yesterday, a couple of people asked this same question. Other commenters piled onto them, basically saying, “Well, they knew Trump would never step aside, so why ask him to?”
Jackie
@RevRick: And getting almost twice as many donations as TCFG!
Thankfully Biden supporters vastly outnumber the pant wetters 👍🏻
prostratedragon
MONdaaay!!! at Danbury federal penitentiary …
Captain C
@Percysowner:
If it was full immunity, they’d have to worry about Biden coming for their lives. Not that he would, but they’d figure it’s what they would do in his position.
Baud
@Chris:
I agree. They hit a home run in the 4th and we concede defeat.
Starfish
@Nukular Biskits: Is Brice Wiggins less unhinged than most of them? I want to believe.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
We need to show them that we’re tough too.
Soprano2
@Frankensteinbeck: I think too many white liberals only think about how other white people perceive things. Most of them didn’t hear the “black jobs” thing (although I certainly heard it and went “what the hell is he talking about?”) That’s one reason their hair is on fire. I also think there’s something to the idea that a lot of people who tuned in had not been exposed to that much pure unadulterated TCFG for a long time, or ever. I think it scared some of them. Biden is old but normal; TCFG is not normal, and it showed.
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: So, in their view, the voters can be left to decide about the Felon, but not about Biden? What mendacious shitheels.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
We all saw that Biden at his worse is vastly better than that useless sack of shit Trump. Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick, Biden handed Trump an easy win and Trump found a way to fuck that up, and this is guy the other-side wants to lead the nation in a time of crises? The pundits are panicking because and demanding Biden should drop because this election could easily turn into a snoozer and then big layoff next year because the projected add revenue wasn’t there.
Van Buren
So basically, 2/5 of Americans like Biden and hate Trump, 2/5 of Americans like Trump and hate Biden, and 1/5 of Americans hate them both.
We just need to ID that last 1/5 and talk/knock some sense into them.
Eyeroller
@oldgold: An early debate when few “normies” are paying much attention is much better under these circumstances. Lots of people are on vacation at least part of next week and that’s what is on their minds. I assume Biden and his team knew they needed to test things out and I expect they should be able to make adjustments. But I know that nothing Biden does will ever satisfy you anyway.
MagdaInBlack
I’m watching, of all people, Joe Piscopo on Newsmax and aside from being an idiot, he looks like a dried apple doll head. What happened to him?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Who is we?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
People opposed to people who support the NYT.
O. Felix Culpa
@Another Scott:
Sigh. I miss Amir. That was one of his favorite lines.
schrodingers_cat
NYT is a much bigger danger to the republic than the entire RW media ecosystem put together because they are still trusted by many as a neutral arbiter when infact they have been water carriers for the Republican party for as long as I can remember (since the 90s, other BJers can revise that estimate)
W and Cheney the Iraq war misinformation through Judith Miller at the NYT.
But Her Emailz was the NYT doing.
unrelatedwaffle
@karen marie: I watch him occasionally, but I think what happened is a combination of a) Stewart came up at a time when there were really no intellectual left wing political voices on TV, so he seemed radical and smart. But now we are blessed with a lot more options (Oliver, Myers, even Colbert), b) Stewart always had a smattering of that “I make fun of everybody, I’m not PoLiTiCaL” attitude that was required in the early 2000s comedy world, c) he has gotten older and gotten into some really dumb conspiracy stuff, and he’s rich and out of touch. He still nails it every once in a while but I think a lot of the love for him is driven by nostalgia today.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
One of the frustrating aspects of being a Democrat for so many years was that it never seemed to work that way when WE won.
Biden’s come a lot closer on this than previous Presidents have. For better or worse (and I think for better), we’ve shed the Blue Dogs and the Lieberman types that would give us what looked like big majorities, but would always sandbag the Dem agenda. Our majorities now, when we have them, may be thin, but at least they’re real and not illusory.
Like you said earlier this morning, if we hold the Senate, it will be the best Senate ever.
Bex
@p.a.: “One And One Half Inches of Rain Expected!! Eighty Gazillion People in Mortal Danger!!” STAY TUNED!! And don’t forget our loyal advertisers!!
Karen S.
@stinger: Their candidate is also old. He’s rapidly losing his faculties, too.
Eyeroller
@schrodingers_cat: They’ve bothsidesed fascism for over a century
Herr Hitler at Home in the Clouds
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
We work that way. Our problem is the filibuster and achieving intraparty consensus.
ETA: things we’re improving on.
Eyeroller
@unrelatedwaffle: Even considering a “lab leak” origin for Covid is a dealbreaker for me. I almost never watch TV anymore (and never did much except for DVDs) but did see Daily Show clips back then and thought he was OK. No more.
New Deal democrat
Two (oops, three) things:
1. Does anyone have a link to any video of Biden’s worst moments from the debate? I watched part of one from the CBC (Canada) and one from Murdoch’s Sky News Australia, and honestly, with one exception (Biden clearly losing his train of thought and stammering/mumbling until his time ran out) they weren’t that bad. He has the Senior shuffle and the grandpa raspy voice, but so what? He can own those. He also rasped out statistics like he was at a convention of accountants, but that has been a feature of many boring debate appearances by many politicians before. So, to repeat, anyone got a video of anything worse?
2. To repeat what some others have said: so far, the polling needle has barely budged -if at all! And anecdotal evidence is that undecided voters were repulsed by Trump.
3. Remember how newspapers called on Clinton to resign in 1998? Yeah, that was persuasive. Also, Krugman is terrific in his trade economics wheelhouse, but a poor economic forecaster, and a worse reader of political tea leaves.
(I will concede that I worry about how Biden’s health might decline in the next 4.5 years, but that ship has sailed).
Starfish
@karen marie: Some people here are watching him, but his schtick has always been “both sides,” and that type of thing is a couple of decades past its expiration date.
lowtechcyclist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
And I remember learning in my history classes that the Nazis purged the gays from their midst, a couple years after Hitler took power.
Chris
@Eyeroller:
I laughed out loud on the drive back this morning when the radio went to commercial break:
Anchor: “You know, I learned the most interesting thing about politics yesterday… and now I can’t remember what it was.”
Yeah. That about sums up the week.
(By “the drive back,” incidentally, I mean back from the French embassy. I voted for Macron’s dude, if anyone cares. Now waiting to see who makes it to the next round so I can vote for them next week).
Eyeroller
@Karen S.: I’ve decided not to try to “diagnose” Trump with any unusual cognitive decline other than normal “old-timer’s disease.” We’ve seen too much of that already, including from physicians presumably outside of their area of expertise, wielded against Biden. I think Trump is just extremely stupid (there is testimony about that from people who knew him a long time ago) and that doesn’t improve with age. He also has some obsessions (sharks, batteries, showerheads, etc.) that he has been increasingly indulging.
Chris
@New Deal democrat:
Wasn’t Biden’s worst moment, the one everyone quotes that ends in “we beat Medicaid,” also one that ended mid-sentence when he got his mike cut? Which kind of puts a different spin on it.
lowtechcyclist
@JMG:
They had hated her for years before 1998. Maybe her staying with Bill and defending him pissed them off even more, but they already had it in for her.
I can’t see that working against either Jill Biden or Barack Obama; too many people like them. And the Clintons are all but ancient history politically at this point.
Kay
I think what you have to take seriously is not a frame by frame evaluation of the debate but peoples reactions – and (pundits aside) ordinary peoples gut reactions were just terrible. That’s real. CNN didn’t invent it. We have to deal with it. They’re not “bad Democrats” – they watched and had a gut level negative response. I got all caps text messages like, immediately. Nine minutes into it. That’s important, because our base is important – all of our base.
I think you can bring people together around the endangered or vulnerable candidate but not if you dismiss them as disloyal or stupid or privileged. They saw what they saw and felt what they felt.
Kay
Circle the wagons, but don’t draw the circle too tight. It’s not a loyalty test.
oldgold
@TBone: Thank you for your customary cogent and civil response.
lowtechcyclist
@oldgold:
Because while people may not start thinking about the election until after Labor Day, they see and hear a lot of stuff before then, and a lot of people’s minds get made up while they’re not even thinking about it.
Trying to get in there now, rather than waiting until there was hardly anyone left to be persuaded by a good debate, was the right thing to do, regardless of what one thinks about the outcome.
Kay
@New Deal democrat:
Judging by my text messages (received) the worst part begins at 9:13.
Captain C
@Nukular Biskits:
I’d prefer this adjustment. And I’d prefer they did it on their own, out of newfound extreme shame and guilt.
gene108
@Soprano2:
If a reporters desire for a book deal is greater than their desire to preserve democracy, they are MAGA. Maybe a MAGA in denial about being MAGA, but MAGA nonetheless.
Another Scott
@Eyeroller:
TCFFG seemingly cannot speak an off-the-cuff linear English sentence anymore. That’s what I continue to notice about him.
Compare this brief DW interview from September 13, 2001 (4:38) with anything in the debate or anything else in the last 5 years. He was nuts back then (90% of his thoughts were about the buildings and rebuilding rather than the people), but he could express a coherent thought. His brain has degraded, a lot. Whether it’s an organic disease or too many drugs or too many hamberders or too many sycophants or whatever else, who knows.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: GOOD TROUBLE with a dash of anti-evil genius! Luckily, my hubby would bail us both out!
Eyeroller
@New Deal democrat: He lost his train of thought and rambled some early on, possibly at least in part due to concentrating on keeping his stutter under control. His voice sounded raspy and old. That was it, that caused this Category 5 freakout. Meanwhile Trump Gish galloped and rambled and didn’t even try to answer questions and it’s all “well, that’s just Trump.”
Elizabelle
Monopolies are bad, and Joe Biden is a president for realists.
Maybe it’s time to break Big Pundit. Bring it on.
TBone
@O. Felix Culpa: 👍
Points for the word “mendacious.” 💜
New Deal democrat
@Kay:
@Chris:
Thanks. Yes, that is the one specific time I was referring to.
Eyeroller
@Another Scott: Yeah, stimulant abuse can do that, especially if one doesn’t have a lot of cognitive reserve to begin with. Paranoia (e.g. shark will eat me) is a known possible consequence of long-term use of stimulants.
TBone
How do the political pundits get through life with such thin skins? They care about what people think of them sooo much that their self awareness mechanism blinds them to the fact that they’re being flaming assholes in front of the entire nation! It’s a conundrum 🤣
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Shades of John Belushi in “Animal House”.
Pundit: “Biden needs to drop out! We all see it! C’mon let’s all go down to the quad and demand Biden’s resignation! Are you with me? Yeahhhhhhhhh!” (Runs out of room. Nobody follows. The scream gradually fades into the distance.)
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: 😆😆😆 steroids and right wing ideology are a potent mix. Like being attacked from the air by the Dementers from that TERF lady’s stories.
Cacti
@Kay: The initial polling suggests that the debate didn’t move the needle much on how anyone was going to vote.
However, it did cause Dem voters to be a lot more concerned about Biden’s age and fitness for another term than they were previously.
Every misstatement or misstep is going to be under a microscope now.
jimmiraybob
@Elizabelle:
“Maybe it’s time to break Big Pundit.”
A good start would be to send some love $$$ to the Biden-Harris campaign and to any other Democratic candidate up and down the line. The amount does matter, the bigger the better, but even the smallest of $$$ sends a message of support.
TBone
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: obligatory:
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: Never forget that the FTF Putz NY Times screens their reader comments. You see what they decide you see. They can’t do much about a tsunami of opposition, as they occasionally get, but they can definitely overselect for comments that fit Putz’s agenda.
Elizabelle
@jimmiraybob: Exactly.
Geminid
@TBone: They were pussilanimous as well.
Ksmiami
@Baud: my normie mod Dem friends are terrified of Trump and to a person said they’d vote for Biden on a gurney
Starfish
@New Deal democrat:
11:15-12:15 is being used to show Trump getting in a quip as Biden deeply struggles with numbers. Trump had no numbers to struggle with except the number 19 because that is how many people said he did not disparage service members. Trump used that number repeatedly in the speech. It was funny because that was like the only number he used.
13:23-17:00 is pretty horrifying on Trump’s part. He is taking credit for his Supreme Court Justices overturning Roe, saying that people always wanted this. There is no moderator push back that this is not aligned with reality. He is saying Democrats want to kill children after they are born. Biden is correct on the points he is making, but he bumbles through it, and I am not exactly sure why he brought up Jocelyn Nungaray’s death in all of this. She is someone that Trump has been using to vilainize people in the country illegally, but she is also not relevant to the question that was asked.
HinTN
Having read none of the comments on this post, here’s my “upon further review” thoughts on the debate.
Concede that the “in the moment” was bad for Biden. But that moment is gone. What you have now is the opportunity to create ads that show a President responding rationally and knowledgeably to a question with facts and accomplishments. Present that in short clips side by side with his opponent responding to a question with frightening gibberish. One each and voice over with appropriate wrap up. It could be powerful.
Just a thought.
Bill Arnold
@JMG:
Not endorsing Biden would be support for Trump and for all of Trump’s political supporters, including the many contributors to P2025. And it would be support for the P2025 agenda, and for hundreds of millions of more deaths from the consequences of global heating, support for the destruction of the free press, etc.
Another Scott
@Cacti: I’m so old that I remember that Biden had to drop out because he had a habit of being too handsy, touching women’s shoulders and smelling their hair. No women would vote for him because he invaded women’s spaces without consent, so he obviously had to drop out because he had no chance to win.
I wonder what happened to that guy??
Oh, he listened and learned and won the nomination and the presidency. I guess the pundits were wrong. Shocking.
Cheers,
Scott.
TBone
@Ksmiami: 😊
Mike in NC
The Beltway pundits and the Extreme Court are perfectly happy to pave the way for a fascist overthrow of our government. After all, they are already handsomely paid to look the other way.
Captain C
@JMG:
Endorsing Biden will make them look ridiculous, unserious, and wishy-washy as everyone points out that they wanted him to drop out after a poor debate performance (but not the 34-time felon and ajudicated business fraudster and rapist). Maybe Pinch the Lesser should just sell the FTFNYT now. Or better yet, put it into the hands of a nonprofit trust that’s run by people who actually understand the news and care about something.
HinTN
@Nukular Biskits: Hit the Rib Shack for some damn good bbq!
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa: Absolutely.
TBone
@Bill Arnold: kinda like what the Supremacists Court did yesterday when they strangled the Chevron Deference Doctrine in a bathtub.
They’re also trying to hand the throne to Dotard with the delay gambit, as is Maybelline Cannon.
lowtechcyclist
@zhena gogolia:
The answer is, because Trump isn’t their audience. Shitloads of people take the FTFNYT seriously for some reason, and when they tell one candidate to drop out, but not the other one, that influences people.
Hell, it influences the other media influencers, which is the real problem: too many media figures take their cues from the FTFNYT. So you have millions of people getting the message that Biden should drop out, but there’s no reason Trump should. That’s a huge thumb on the scale.
Captain C
@zhena gogolia: Pinch the Lesser is still bitter that Biden can see right through him.
Elizabelle
I think the media showed their a$$ on this.
gene108
@Kay:
Media narratives work in setting people’s expectations about a candidate, the economy, etc. Republican media knows this and has driven the narrative on crime, a Democratic candidates competency, etc. for over 30 years.
The MSM just runs with what they hear from their colleagues and don’t question whether The American Spectator or Fox News has an agenda.
Biden’s old, weak, feeble, and mentally unfit and needs to step down for the good of the country have taken hold in people’s minds. Biden’s debate performance reinforced this narrative in spades. Even his better answers were often rambling and incoherent, with point he started with being nowhere related to the point he ended with.
Second, people who generally support Biden are terrified of a second Trump term. Trump seems to have an unshakable core of support. The 2016 and 2020 elections were decided by around 75,000 and 45,000 votes, respectively, and people are terrified 11,780 voters in Georgia change their minds and switch their vote from Biden to Trump.
Finally, the whole “my parents turned into bitter angry people, I hardly recognize by watching Fox News all the time” is mostly a white people problem. How to deal with MAGA relatives at Thanksgiving is mostly a white people problem.
Y’all are pretty close to some folks who went from reasonable to MAGA loving or MAGA curious in ways Black Twitter can’t understand. I think white liberal social media is aware that their uncle, cousin, etc. might decide to vote for Trump or third party, if Biden stumbles.
Biden stumbled hard in the debate.
The fear of Trump’s second term is very real, and a lot of folks vented that fear during and after the debate.
TBone
Living in fear leads to cancer. Fuck cancer! I’m only being half facetious with this comment.
Kay
No one normal thinks Democrats kill children after birth. I talked to hundreds of (mostly) women during the Ohio referendum campaign. It wasn’t raised once.
Democrats shouldn’t engage on it at all – it’s trolling- intended to make you sputter and lose your place – “I do NOT kill babies!” You really don’t have to be defensive on your abortion position. You’re solidly in the mainstream. It’s Republicans and media who are far Right of center on it – you’re not far Left. 100% offense on abortion. They’re the ones on the ropes with it, not us.
Mousebumples
@Starfish: pretty sure 19 has some Nazi association. No, I’m not looking up the details.
I’m still on Team Biden, Team Dem.
I’m looking forward to postcarding this fall (and just emailed WaterGirl last night about some schedule-y thoughts). I think stamp prices go up in July, if anyone wants to stock up on stamps…
moonbat
@Elizabelle: Agreed x 10!
Many have noted that the Biden is OLD and should drop out stories seemed pre-written. They got WAY out over their skis on this. They achieved one half-cycle of freakout and then real people started reacting to the debate. You know, voters, the ones who count? And poof.
It’s SO HARD for them to accept that they really aren’t thought leaders in this country. For good or ill, there is no Walter Cronkite figure who can speak and have the whole nation listen. In this case, I’m sort of glad, because in our messed up timeline Cronkite would be on Putin’s payroll..
Captain C
@zhena gogolia:
Since they claim to want to be seen an impartial, fair, and balanced?
Personally, I think the FTFNYT, at least its upper echelons, is not here for the hunting.
Kay
@gene108:
Right, fear, but “I can’t HEAR you, la la la” or “you’re a Russian plant or a disloyal Democrat!” is also an expression of fear. I would argue that it’s MORE fearful than an honest “I’m scared he’ll lose”.
Cacti
@gene108: The comment section here skews old. For that reason, I think many tend minimize how much of a problem Biden’s performance was for voters who are not old.
Pyre Light
duplicate deleted
3Sice
Biden didn’t want to wade in with someone spouting lunacy. I’m sure his prep pressed him on being the presidential appearing one, and sticking to policy points, but eventually he gave in and started needling Trump to good effect.
He needs to stick to big picture, and take the personal shots as convictedfelon tees them up. Even Johnny Unbeatable can’t out point a delusional nut by rattling off policy points.
Captain C
@Baud: It wasn’t even a home run, it was a dribbler single. After which TCFG ran to third, announced that he would arrest the fans in the upper deck, and declared himself the champion of Mars.
Kay
If normal voters (not the pundit freaks or GOP freaks) thought Democrats killed babies after birth with legal abortion they wouldn’t have passed pro choice referendums in state after state.
Stop defending on it. Attack them for killing women.
Pyre Light
Spotted in the wild:
https://twitter.com/ronmarz/status/1806537519640576254
Kerry
@Eyeroller: Well said!
Mr. Bemused Senior
Do you recall the clip of Trump that Liz Cheney played at the end of the Jan. 6 hearings? The one that was outtakes preceding his Jan. 7 address?
To me it is a perfect display of Trump’s response to advice he doesn’t like. The look on his face, his pounding the lectern, his words.
He may follow good advice when there’s no alternative, but he hates it and carries a grudge.
Bill Arnold
@Karen S.:
This. There will need to be a serious, very public oppo-research-driven look at Trump’s VP candidate, because he/she might well have to take over if Trump is elected to a second term.
And that will need to be out in the open; the Republicans will be doing the same, already are vs MVP, and they will be doing it with absolutely ruthlessness.
It is a brawl. Those attacking Democrats and not attacking Republicans are fighting for the Republican team, and should be treated as such. IMO.
TBone
@Geminid: 💚👍
gene108
@Kay:
Most of us have PTSD from Trump winning the EC, in 2016, and Bush, Jr. winning the EC, in 2000.
The fear an awful Republican candidate can get lucky in the EC will never go away.
I think most of the Democratic reaction to Biden’s debate performance is a fear response to Republicans winning, whether it’s circling the wagons or saying Biden should step down.
The 2000 and 2016 elections have left us traumatized.
kindness
@karen marie: I’m still a fan of The Daily Show. I dvr it and Colbert’s Late Night so even if I don’t catch the live feed I watch it later fast forwarding the commercials (Bonus!). Jon Stewart flopped that first show. Totally misread the room. He got better. I mean, he still makes fun of Biden far too much, but he’s honest about the menace that Trump presents. Honestly, as a political junkie, the jokes on both those shows are fun and in this day and age, I need the laughs.
TBone
@Bill Arnold: 🎯
zhena gogolia
You know what? I’m around young people all the time. It’s my life. They are nowhere near as ageist as the people on this blog.
3Sice
@Bill Arnold:
Trump has already decided it was the greatest debate performance ever. If the polling doesn’t reflect that, he will lash out at his advisors in some stupid way. Like an impulse VP pick over whoever they were greasing the skids for. That’s Trump.
Eyeroller
@gene108: Except that this seems to be the typical Democratic reaction. Look at the response to Obama’s poor first debate with Romney in 2012–apparently the screaming was nearly as bad as this time.
“Loyal” Democrats are not. Most just aren’t. They will abandon the candidate over the slightest stumble. We have observed this over and over. Even if they grudgingly show up to vote, all this very public shrieking (even if only to friends and family) can have an effect. I am not entirely sure what it is about our personalities that is different, but we know that Republicans all obey Reagan’s Law “Never speak ill of another Republican,” and if they do not they are cast out.
Mr. Bemused Senior
The whole country had suffered one trauma after another. 9/11, the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, the 2008 financial collapse, the elections you point out. It’s a wonder we’re not all reduced to gibbering idiots
No wonder so many people want to vote for a gibbering idiot.
TBone
@3Sice: my black heart is aflutter
TBone
@Mr. Bemused Senior: don’t forget the Y2K insanity😆 my attorney employer at the time sent me to a Bar Assn. preparatory seminar to prepare for the worst!
I can’t help laughing in the face of abject fear sometimes. So sue me.
artem1s
@moonbat:
They already failed to get their preferred hand picked opponent and on top of it the only people crazy/stupid/corrupt enough to oppose Biden in the primary ended up pulling support from TCFG because they are essentially just like TCFG.
In case you have forgotten, the GOP tried all the same arguments against Joe in 2020. And the failed media did their job and amplified the narrative they wanted out there. The real base of the Democratic party wasn’t fooled and they stepped up and took an active role in helping craft Joe’s administrative agenda and rebuilding this country. Look at all the cabinet secretaries and other high level operatives who found ways to keep the GOP house from burning down the country. The media is pissed because so many Dems have finally figured out that it’s OK to help ourselves and work together instead of shooting ourselves in the feet when our elected officials are humans who can’t do the job alone like some big daddy GOP authoritarian strongmen claims they can.
Joe doesn’t go around shitting on people just because it will help him win an election or hold power. He’s not going to go for anyone’s throat in the way that the pundits want or give us all revenge p0rn and instant gratification just for the lutz. Time to start paying attention and being grateful for Joe’s strengths like stability and quiet resolve and tenancity. Those strengths that are preferred by the majority of the voters BTW. Instead of fanning the flames of people who want him to be a carbon copy of Newt Gingrich or Darth Cheney or McConnell or TCFG. It’s not Joe’s strength to be a blustering asshole and we shouldn’t wish it was.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Josie:
According to some of our own commentariat, it is. But then they see everything as transactional and owe nothing to Biden and didn’t want him in the first place. JFC.
To trot out my cobbled together summary from Damien, Frankensteinbeck and others:
Bill Arnold
@Kay:
Similar. I’m on a small politics Signal chat group.
There was a lot of moaning about Biden’s weak and disjoint old-man performance, that resembled something organic.
Trump was, IMO, amped on mild chems, probably Adderall and maybe others. He didn’t grossly glitch like he usually does a few times during each rally these days. He also lied a lot and made it quite clear that his relationship with the truth wasn’t even contempt.
My reaction, FWIW, was that Trump’s constant Gish Gallop of lies in an address to the nation (not just supporters) was disqualifying. (To me, lies are second only to arrogance in loathsome behavior.)
Frankensteinbeck
It doesn’t matter how scared you are, how bad Biden looked to you. You’re going to vote for him anyway.
The undecideds found Trump repulsive. Responses on Spanish television suggests Latinos are livid.
The evidence we have says that this did not hurt Biden. At all. All the panic is wind, because Trump was also on that stage and he didn’t sound like a smooth liar. He sounded like fucking Hitler.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@artem1s:
Another clip for the file. 👍
TBone
@Frankensteinbeck: his (non)response to the opioids question “how would you help?” was very, very telling!
JMG
@Kay: Nine minutes into the debate you got freakout texts? Do these folks get up and leave the ballpark if the home team’s pitcher walks the first batter?
jowriter
@Frankensteinbeck: Thank you, again. I swear this blog keeps me healthy.
Quiltingfool
@Kay:
I agree. Don’t even step into that stupid claim. State every time you can that the Republican Party is okey-dokey with killing women. They are fine with a corpse having more bodily autonomy than a woman.
Keep it simple. Let THEM explain why killing women (and girls) is perfectly acceptable.
dc
Notice how Kistof did not list the actual person who would be president if something happened to Joe. I wonder why?
schrodingers_cat
From the dead morning thread
It is laughable that people who find it onerous to vote and stand by the President who has delivered on their priorities are going to successfully lead a violent revolution. These are the same people who think that registering to vote at the DMV is difficult. Who are willing to throw the rest of the D coalition under the bus at a minute’s notice for a perceived slight.
ETA: The same people that get panic attacks beacuse of one bad debate performance, are telling me armed revolution is the answer. ROTFLOL.
Kay
Trump narrowing his eyes and using “Palestinian” as a slur got my attention and also Trump’s promise to eradicate the entire Palestinian population.
I bet his saying “black jobs” got peoples attention too.
I know media and Republicans (but I repeat myself) won’t discuss Trump’s performance but any normies watching will.
3Sice
Whatever the occupant of the “Pat Caddell – I didn’t leave the party, the party left me” memorial chair at FOX, CNN, etc. says about campaign strategy, do the opposite of that.
Kay
@Quiltingfool:
Obama was always really comfortable and confident on reproductive rights. Biden is less so.
I think they use the “killing babies after they are born” on people who are defensive or not confident in a pro choice position. Normal people don’t actually think this.
But fuck them. They want to raise “killing”? Okey doke. Let’s talk about the women they almost killed in Texas – the women who sued them. Democrats shouldn’t have time to defend on this they should be so busy attacking.
Lapassionara
I think that most of the pundit class essentially want to be members of the “cult of the savvy,” so they try to take what they think will be a contrarian opinion so that they can get ahead of the rest of the pundits lining up to join the “cos.” What I don’t understand is the almost universal stampede to the extreme “Biden needs to step down” conclusion, rather than to the more rational conclusion, which would have been “oh my, he had a bad outing this time.” If anyone needs an explainer why Biden should not step down, search for Gavin Newsome’s speech about debates (delivered BEFORE the debate, not the one delivered after). I’m sorry I cannot post a link, as I am an old person and not tech savvy.
I suspect much of the panic is being driven by the unstated assumption, which is that the country is awash in misogyny and that if Kamala Harris were the nominee, it would mean doom for Democrats and Democracy. We had the most qualified candidate in 2016, and in any rational universe, she would have been elected easily.
I’m on team Biden, and as I mentioned yesterday, I think anyone who sees the post-Helsinki summit photo of Trump with Putin would want Trump as far away from the White House as possible.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: Don’t forget, Putin told him about his dream to take over Ukraine.
TBone
Seriously good short clip;
https://youtu.be/zw8te6EiIlY
FLY THE PLANE!
TBone
@zhena gogolia: did you today’s Heather Cox Richardson? Posted at #49
Frankensteinbeck
@Lapassionara:
Even liberals in the national press love Democratic panic. They feed on it, they promote it as much as possible, they’re enthusiastic and vivacious when it’s a topic. Maybe it’s just exciting. MSNBC will give you heart attacks half the time. Their golden fantasy is the absolute chaos of Biden abdicating the nomination. I don’t think they even want Democrats to lose, this is just their favorite part of their favorite sport.
And of course, only Democrats have agency. They just assume Trump, and can’t imagine it matters what he does.
Tony Jay
geg6
@zhena gogolia:
FOR REAL! I, too, spend 8 hours every day with youngs. Not an ageist bone in most of their bodies. I will miss them when my retirement date comes. This generation, IMHO, is my favorite ever.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I see by the title this is technically an open thread, so I’ll just drop in this Nature Note on a subject which is much on my mind today for, oh, some reason.
Did you know there’s a poisonous vine which is not poison ivy, which looks like a perfectly innocent weed, but does things to your skin which are much worse than PI? This week I learned about a brand new threat in my yard called “Virginia Creeper”. I can see the line of where the garden gloves ended on my wrists. The rest of both arms is a dry red leather, and now the skin is starting to crack.
Or maybe I’m turning into a lizard person. Or it’s a Jordy Verrill thing.
Quiltingfool
@zhena gogolia:
Come sit next to me! Seriously, where were all these people who think Biden is too old in the 2020 campaign? Why didn’t they throw their considerable weight behind a younger candidate? Maybe it is far less work to bitch about it than actually doing something.
Me? I’m an old white woman, and I really liked Harris and Warren. I wasn’t sure about Biden. But who I like isn’t the same as who has the best chance at winning.
When black women came out in support of Biden (and I’m sure they loved them some Kamela) I thought, I’m with them. They are pragmatic voters. They saw in Biden an (a) old white man who wouldn’t scare white people (b) a white man who served with a black man and supported him and (c) a white man who wouldn’t fuck them over.
When Harris was chosen as a vice-president, the first woman ever as a vice-president, I was more sold on Biden. She has been front and center in his presidency, not hidden away. This shows respect to women.
I may have been meh on Biden, but by God, his actions have sure changed my mind…I’m from Missouri, you know, Show Me? lol. Not sure that’s true anymore about the majority of my fellow Missourians, sad to say.
Eolirin
@Kay: This is part of why we need Trump talking about policy more, and ideally for people to be focusing on it. When it’s Biden in a vacuum, everyone will have an opinion on what he’s doing wrong and should be doing instead on any contentious issue but the second Trump starts talking about it, and we have contrast for what would happen if he’s able to make those calls instead, a lot of people, the ones acting in good faith anyway, calling for things to be done differently will be left going, “No, not like that!”
But we need the focus to turn to what Trump would actually do, what he’s saying he’ll actually do, more than it has been.
3Sice
The cable news industry, the WaPo, and NYT wants you to know they still matter….
TBone
Velshi and guest Kermit Roosevelt, III discussion of Supremacists Court, Chevron, and Project 2025. Excellent analysis! I’ll hope to find in the yoo toob later.
Slightly_peeved
@HinTN:
I presume the ads featuring Trump taking credit for Roe vs Wade are already in someone’s inbox awaiting approval.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
OK legal types, a question about the Supreme Court.
Let me dream for a moment that in the Biden 2nd term, in which we have also taken a majority in the Senate and the House, and Congress agrees to expand the Supreme Court as one of their first acts in January of 2025.
Is there time to stop any more damage to the rule of law by the Roberts court? Let alone reverse the damage that’s already been done?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Kill that shit with extreme prejudice. Invasive species in some parts of the country that brings nothing of value.
One thing people don’t know is that it is a massive attractor of Japanese Beetles. People in my neighborhood piss and moan about the JB scource, rightly so, on things like their roses, rosa sharons, etc., and yet, have a fence line that’s covered in VC. You tell them “kill that shit and keep it killed and then you’re JB goes waaaaaay down” and they look at you like you’re nuts.
All the while putting up JB traps which simply exacerbate the problem.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: It’s the 40 and 50 year olds, my cohort on this blog pretending to be the voice of the youth. They are ridiculous.
dnfree
@Chris: I do care about your vote in the French election and have been following your comments about France with interest. Also your other comments.
Kristine
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Thanks for the tip. I have a little bit in my yard, but I’ve been wearing gloves so no irritation
Also good to know about the Japanese beetle attraction. I have several Rose of Sharon shrubs. Hate those beetles.
Lapassionara
@Eolirin: This! At this stage, most people have little notion of what Trump has in store for the country if he is elected again. We need to explain his so-called “platform” to them. It is NOT enough to refer to “Project 2025.” We need to tell them what that term means, including that it means adding 15% (or is it 17%) to the cost of everything that is imported from China, removing millions of people from the country (and the work force), etc, etc.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Quiltingfool:
Where were you back when I was in Central Misery? We could have gotten together with Ozark Hillbilly!
👍
Eyeroller
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: You must be sensitive to the tiny and sharp crystals of calcium oxalate in Virginia creeper leaves. Most people are not, but some certainly are. Definitely wear gloves when handling it.
MomSense
@TBone:
One of the problems with Biden being so obviously incapable at the debate is that all the focus is on his competence and not the absolutely horrifying things trump said.
I think we are in a bubble if we are not paying attention to the wider conversation that not just normies are having, but young voters. For five years the Republicans have been pushing Biden has dementia, etc and he showed up to the debate looking and sounding like it’s true.
For everyone that says he was fine the next day – that is not as reassuring as you think it is. Anyone who has dealt with or is dealing with loved ones who have neurocognitive disorders has experienced changes from one day or night to the next. The other problem with him being fine the next day – is that the next day wasn’t in fucking prime time with all the build up and coverage of a debate. The first 15-20 minutes of the debate are always the most important. The first 15 minutes were a disaster. We would have been much better off not knowing how bad it can be.
Eyeroller
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Virginia creeper is native throughout eastern and central North America. I have it here and I’d much rather have it than the truly invasive Japanese stiltgrass with which I am overwhelmed. Lots of it where I grew up in Oklahoma. In the north it ranges as far west as Utah.
zhena gogolia
@TBone: Yes, although I haven’t had the heart to read it all yet.
Mike E
My prescription sunglasses are getting a serious workout lately, with the ceaseless 21 Pants Salute constantly exposing the white privilege here there and everywhere.
That, and my pie filter.
Frankensteinbeck
@MomSense:
Evidence suggests that conversation is “Biden looked old, but holy shit, Trump is a monster, we have to stop him.”
zhena gogolia
@geg6: They are great.
zhena gogolia
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Ugh. We have tons of that — I didn’t know it was poisonous.
zhena gogolia
@Quiltingfool: I’m from there, too!
JoeyJoeJoe
@Kay: Biden’s Catholicism could explain it.
More generally, and not in response to anyone in particular, is that hot social media takes are the worst. The same person who expresses an alarmed thought in the moment may have a more reasoned response if they have an hour or a day to think about it.
Also Pundits who are repeating or creating republican talking points should be ignored. People on the left don’t have to put up with that.
zhena gogolia
@MomSense: So who is your preferred candidate? Keep in mind that that candidate cannot use any of the money Biden-Harris have raised.
dnfree
@Cacti: I’m old, and it’s BECAUSE I’m old that I found Biden’s performance alarming. It wasn’t just his physical appearance, because that’s normal for our age. And it wasn’t the stuttering. It was the changes in topic mid-sentence, the inability to make a clear statement on Roe v Wade (he stumbled around talking about trimesters but he called them something else) and other points where he just clearly lost his train of thought.
I’ve seen dementia up close. That’s what this looked like, on top of the illness and the stuttering and the questionable preparation.
Someone yesterday mentioned “early-onset” dementia. I hate to point this out, but at Biden’s age and mine, it’s too late to be early-onset.
zhena gogolia
@dnfree:So who is your preferred candidate? Keep in mind that that candidate cannot use any of the money Biden-Harris have raised.
Baud
We are all Senator Frist now.
New Deal democrat
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
On the first part, realistically, no. Congress could strip the Court, and all other federal courts of jurisdiction to hear certain types of cases,. But that won’t happen. Plus, state courts would still have jurisdiction, and Congress can’t touch them.
On the second part, absolutely yes. Any future Court can throw all of the Roberts Court cases in the trash can with the exact same ease that the Roberts Court has been throwing Warren and Burger Court cases in the trash can.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: In addition to being the voice of the youth the doomsayers are also experts in geriatric medicine.
Spanky
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Your neighbors are certainly doing it rong. You’re supposed to hang the Japanese Beetle traps in your neighbor’s yard. Preferably when they’re not home.
TBone
@MomSense: my mother had dementia. I am looking to a possible future of the same deadly fate. I watch Fox News sporadically, and read at tankie websites frequently. I am well aware of all that you mention. But I’m not going to obey them or their framing around a ninety minute debate. I don’t allow them to pwn this lib. Nevah gunna happen.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: GMTA. They can be field medics in the new Revolutionary War.
Eyeroller
@zhena gogolia: The leaves are not poisonous, but the leaves and stems contain things called raphides, which are needle-like crystals of calcium oxalate. They can be irritating, especially to people with sensitive skin. The berries are poisonous (to mammals) since they have high levels of oxalic acid. So don’t eat the berries, leave them for the birds.
TBone
@zhena gogolia: 👍 I hope you, and others here, read it for the insight.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@TBone: thanks, I did read it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Spanky:
LOL.
That just gave me an idea, hang em in the ginormous mass of Virginia Creeper in your neighbor’s yard, they’d never be seen.
Well, until the Japanese beetles ate down the VC. Even then, with some yards, fence lines around here, I kinda doubt it.
oldgold
@MomSense: Bingo!
Spanky
@Eyeroller: Yeah, I can report that VC bothers me not one bit, but I can certainly believe some people could be.
Virgonia Creeper is not classed as an invasive around here, being a North American native. It can be invasive, of course, but not to the extent that myriad Asian species have become.
West of the Rockies
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
“…most Brownshirts were gay…”
Source?
Spanky
@Eyeroller: Oh gods! Stiltgrass! I think we missed our opportunity to keep that in check up here in Maryland. Wavyleaf Basketgrass is the current enemy, and we’re still managing to hold it somewhat in check.
trollhattan
Oh damn, we’ve lost Martin Mull.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c51y3reng3zo
I saw him live in his Martin Mull and His Fabulous Furniture days and then was delighted when he hosted Fernwood 2 Nite, the Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman spinoff, which co-starred Fred Willard and mercilessly skewered the nighttime chat show format.
Turned out all that talent really did bring success, over many decades.
For added measure, Steve Martin has some of Martin’s paintings in his vast art collection.
r.i.p.
sixthdoctor
I was in my chiropractor office where someone was talking about the debate in the waiting room and was pointing out that Biden looked bad and someone else pointed out Biden has a stutter which got people to say “well they’re both so old.” I said I heard Biden started bad but got under Trump’s skin later which got some agreement.
I then said “At least RFK wasn’t there,” which everyone agreed with.
So fuck the fucking NYT and punditry because they are making it so much worse than it is and for my own sanity I need to take my phone, chuck it into the Patapsco, and touch grass until Labor Day.
And give more money to Joe which I did Friday along with Jon Tester.
Dorothy A. Winsor
As far as I can tell, changing our candidate now is not practical even if I wanted it. So I choose not to think about it. Dwelling on it raises my anxiety for no gain. Onward to planning my post card party.
TBone
@TBone: PS when my mom saw the word “president” in front of Rump’s name floating by on a chyron one day, she flipped out. Can you imagine having raging dementia and then seeing THAT? She knew where her marbles were, even if she couldn’t always gather them. It took me a full twenty minutes to calm her. “MOM! It’s real. We’ll keep a good eye on him, I promise!” 💔
Spanky
@Spanky: I have moved on from the debate.
MomSense
@artem1s:
Biden has aced being president!!! He is not doing well with campaigning and that is just as important as being president especially with fascism on the rise.
TBone
@Mr. Bemused Senior: 💙
West of the Rockies
@Jackie:
I bet that a big chunk of congressional Magats will simply purge Trumpian blather from their speeches once Trumpism fails.
“Who, me? I was never pro-Trump… I barely knew the guy.”
Baud
@West of the Rockies:
“He got me coffee once or twice …”
MomSense
@Frankensteinbeck:
I disagree. The conversation is people freaking out about how fucking terrifying that was.
Baud
@Spanky:
Onward to invasive weeds!
TBone
@sixthdoctor: gawd bless you. That’s a laudatory action taken! I’ll be touching grass and thinking of you and your heart of steel today!
dnfree
@TBone: Wow. Now you’ve hit my sore spot.
Y2K was a very real thing. I was in the computer field starting in the mid-60s, when the decisions were made that led to it, because of the cost of memory and storage. No one expected code written in the 60s, 70s, and 80s to still be in use in 2000 and beyond, but it was.
The problem was not just in each company’s code, but in devices like controllers, and in communication between companies and systems. I worked at the time for a subsidiary of a major company, and in 1998 that major company spent hundreds of millions of dollars setting up a separate testing facility and hiring extra staff. I spent weeks traveling to headquarters to have our local code tested and remediated if necessary. Ours was pretty clean, but some places had not changed their code. Butnthis major employer spent the better part of two years and a lot of money preparing. This included checking with every single subcontractor and supplier to verify that their systems were compliant.
Governments in the US and elsewhere were involved in the coordination. We were all mandated to stay home and be on call for New Year’s Eve in 1999. I personally was up watching TV to see if the lights stayed on around the globe when 2000 began at the date line.
So you went to a meeting and concluded that it was a big overblown nothing?
Y2K should be looked at as a successful collaboration worldwide between governments and countries. There were hiccups, but very few considering. If people recognized the scale of the accomplishment, it could be a model for addressing other world problems. That one had a deadline that was met.
schrodingers_cat
@Mike E: Yep the white privilege in the comments and other white liberal and progressive spaces has gone supernova.
Josie
@MomSense: My mother suffered from dementia. She never veered from one day or night to another. Her cognition was pretty steady and slowly declined. She could fool someone for about 30 minutes, but then she would start one of her favorite stories and be off to the races. It was much more similar to what we see in TFG, not in Biden.
What I sometimes (as an old) experience is forgetting a word here or there. I have to describe whatever I am talking about and one of my kids will supply the word. I have questioned two different doctors about it, and they insist that it is normal and in no way a sign of dementia. I’m pretty sure that is what Biden was experiencing along with his stutter.
Nervousness could have factored in, also.
Starfish
@schrodingers_cat: A lot of people in the 40 to 50 yo cohort are raising the youth so we are very familiar with the youth and how they eat all our chips and cookies and leave none for us.
gwangung
@Frankensteinbeck: I think this is a fair take.
We should have concerns, but should not panic.
The reactions from the Univision viewers and from the Luntz focus group should have just as much impact as the gut reaction of (white?) Democratic voters; they’re all anecdotal data.
Omnes Omnibus
It’s really no wonder that POC don’t see white liberals as reliable allies.
emjayay
@TBone: Merriam Webster:
ep·och ˈe-pək
ˈe-ˌpäk,
US also and British usually
ˈē-ˌpäk
TBone
@dnfree: no, I concluded that it was an overblown debacle designed to dupe gullible rubes at a minute after midnight when the digital numbers infrastructure didn’t blow us all to kingdom come.
I’m still laughing about the attorney recommendations made at that seminar! 😆 It was for Continuing Legal Education credits necessary for attorneys to keep their bar standing/law licenses, and it was pricey! Cha-ching!
YY_Sima Qian
As I said in one of the post-debate threads, shouldn’t try to put lipstick on a pig, but no need for moral panic either (it is indeed self-destructive & self-defeating). Biden is the D nominee, there is no graceful way for Ds to change horses w/o hurting their chances much more. For all of my criticisms of Biden, the choice between him & Trump is stark, the stakes high, consequences of failure dire.
If the Ds somehow decides to commit seppuku, I will still crawl over broken glass to vote for whoever the new nominee is. If Biden is suddenly comatose, I will still crawl over broken glass to vote for him. Even if Biden has in fact been James Wood in disguise, I will still craw over broken glass to vote for James Wood. Anything to keep Trump out of the WH & the reactionaries from seizing more power. The election this Nov. is a rear guard action, not a decisive battle, but the rear guard actions has to fought & won.
Ken
“Here’s a picture of you and Trump standing in front of a Nazi flag holding both thumbs up.”
“That was taken out of context.”
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Thoroughly unreliable drama queens
3Sice
There must be some way out of here, said the joker to the thief…
Today’s polling – debate: Biden lost, but Trump didn’t win. No Democrat performs any better than Joe overall vs. Trump. But Joe is old.
Basically we’re trapped in line behind “leaning against Trump voters” making an indeterminable order at Starbucks.
TBone
@emjayay: what are you, the designated Steve Bannon safety advocate? I’m gonna punch a Nazi any way I see fit!
Spanky
I just got a spam email from the ftnyt, highlighting one of their articles
I’m not sure I can fully unroll my eyes.
Baud
@Spanky:
Miss Bianca
@Kay: Huh. I’m an official in my county Democratic Party in a blood-red county and you know how many freakout texts *I* got?
None.
Maybe your friends’ guts are just…weak.
@Omnes Omnibus: No fucking joke. Or as rikyrah would put it, “no lie told.”
emjayay
@TBone: Short clip if almost 22 minutes is short!
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: This hit hard.
TBone
@Miss Bianca: 💙😘
Barbara
@MomSense: On this blog you and a few others are the worst examples of the very thing you are complaining about. Don’t bother responding. I’m tuning out.
TBone
@emjayay: the “fly the plane” part is the short part to which I referred. If you watch the rest too, good!
TBone
@dnfree: P.S. sorry about your sore spot. Need some balm or ointment for that?
Frankensteinbeck
@Omnes Omnibus:
You are not kidding. Another eye-opening moment for me.
stinger
@Quiltingfool:
Every word of this. (Except I’m not from Missouri. One of my grandfathers was, though.)
Jackie
@Frankensteinbeck:
Thank you.
There’s too much Biden bashing here today, as was yesterday.
I’m voting for Joe and Kamala.
I will be checking the posts infrequently until the the pied ones go back under their rocks.
Miss Bianca
@dnfree: I don’t agree with you on most things but I *definitely* agree with you on the Y2K thing. The fact that the rest of us could dismiss it as a “nothingburger” after the fact is because *a lot* of people were working frantically hard behind the scenes to *make sure* it was!
Pretty sure there’s an analogy there to political freakouts, but I’m not clever enough to make it.
dnfree
@zhena gogolia: I didn’t offer a solution and I don’t have an alternate preference. But it’s not realistic to pretend that there’s not a problem and that anyone who points out the problem isn’t being loyal.
Like others here, I was alarmed and upset. I tuned in at least hoping to see Trump flail and reveal his shortcomings. He did that, but I had not been worried about Biden presenting reasonably well. I did not at all expect the appearance of dementia that we got.
Juju.
@gene108: I’m just catching up on reading some things and I saw your comment that started with the information about your mom being 77. My mother is 91 and she is in advanced dementia. Trust me when I say this. Joe Biden does not have dementia. What he has is a life long stutter, which he manages to control most of the time. He was dealing with a cold and nerves and probably over preparation. He didn’t control his stutter well in the beginning of the debate. He was flustered and it didn’t look good, but if you have had experience with people who have a controlled stutter, you would have recognized what was happening. Once he settled down things improved, and what he said made sense. On the other hand Trump reminds me of my mother before and when we figured out she was heading into dementia. To me, the repetitive babbling and borderline childish behavior are two red flags that I see regarding Trump’s behavior. I would like to see if Trump could still pass the random three word recall part of the Montreal cognitive test. That’s the part that my mother lost first that was indicative of some sort of dementia. She went from barely remembering the three words listed, to not even remembering that she had been given three words to remember, all in approximately four years time. The part that breaks my heart now, is that she can’t draw the three dimensional box any longer, and she taught me how to draw that when I was a child. I thought it was the neatest thing ever. The only parts of the test she can still do is identify the animals, listing words that start with F and sometimes the day of the week. Dementia sucks.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud: Correction:
Won’t be so safe if the Christofascists get control of the federal government. But the homocons are usually well off white cis gay men, often racist and sexist, who can’t imagine that the leopards will eat their faces.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Oof.
Yeah, every time I’m tempted to go all “they” on White People Shit, comes the reminder…”oh yeah, I’m one, too.”
Cacti
@dnfree: The hive mind has decided you’re wrong about this and that there’s no problem. Tread carefully. 😆
Sister Golden Bear
@Miss Bianca: The Mayosapien oof in me honors the Mayosapien oof in you.
Another Scott
@TBone: (Didn’t watch the link, but…) Reminds me of something adjacent…
We remember who else was ooolllld (for his job) and nearing retirement??
Chesley Sullenberger. (He retired at 60, 3 years after Flight 1549.)
Experience and expertise means a lot.
Plus:
Cheers,
Scott.
dnfree
@TBone: I respect your opinions on most things politically that you reference here, but it’s unfortunate that whatever legal seminar you went to on Y2K didn’t offer better information on the scope and solution of the problem.
https://www.businessofgovernment.org/blog/responding-year-2000-challenge-lessons-today
emjayay
@kindness: Log Cabin Republicans are unaware (and/or ignore) that the reason that there can even be Log Cabin Republicans is the work starting in the early fifties by very progressive lefty gay people, and then eventually really got going in the late sixties-seventies with the gay liberation movement entirely coming from very lefty activists thanks to the hippie subculture movement and civil rights laws successes, also after decades of work by very progressive lefty activists.
From the musical Hair, written to portray and promote what was going on in the hippie subculture:
My Conviction
You know kids, I wish every mother
and father in this theater would go home tonight and make a speech to their
teenagers and say kids, be free, no guilt, be whatever you are,
do whatever you want to do, just so long as you don’t hurt anybody.
Right? Right!
I would just like to say that it is my conviction
That longer hair and other flamboyant affectations
Of appearance are nothing more
Than the male’s emergence from his drab camouflage
Into the gaudy plumage
Which is the birthright of his sex
There is a peculiar notion that elegant plumage
And fine feathers are not proper for the man
When ac—tually
That is the way things are
In most species
Sodomy
In the name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost. Amen.
Sodomy
Fellatio
Cunnilingus
Pederasty
Father, why do these words sound so nasty?
Masturbation
Can be fun
Join the holy orgy
Kama Sutra
Everyone!
TBone
@Another Scott: oh my GOD my mom seized on that story and idolized Sully for MONTHS during her dementia. Thank you for that reminder of HAPPY NICE TIME during such a dark, fucked up episode of my life and mom’s life!!!
SULLY!!!!!!! We spoke of him very often 😉
THANK YOU, SPOT ON FROM START TO FINISH
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: This smacks of logic that anit-vaxxers use.
West of the Rockies
@Ken:
“Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Omnes Omnibus:
They sure don’t view them as reliable here. What they’ve seen is a tsunami of white, self-professed “progressives” (who define that as having, maybe, voted for Obama, support abortion rights which makes them Bernie Fucking Sanders) flock here, tell them wtf to do regarding economic policy/development/crime/etc, and say if they don’t like it, move. The condescension local, longtime black leaders get from that crowd is something they *always* point out. To them, it’s another manifestation of that underlying unreliability of the group as a political ally.
@schrodingers_cat:
👍
@Miss Bianca:
👍
@Barbara:
👍
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yup. Being even slightly self-aware of that, as I’ve found when working with local neighborhoods, helps immensely.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: wait, what? Were you at that legal seminar too??? 😆
Spanky
@Baud: That’s the thing! I don’t even have a ftfnyt subscription.
emjayay
@TBone: I was just bitching about 22 minutes being called short. I’ll take your recommendation and watch it.
stinger
@dnfree:
Thank you for this. I worked in the utility industry at the time, and there was serious concern that there could be massive power interruptions. We spent two years planning and coordinating with other power companies (since they are all connected on the margins of their territories and in other ways), governments at all levels, and other industries to ensure that the date would pass without a hitch. The effort involved, among other things, huge amounts of code rewriting. We were successful, so now “Y2K” has become a sneer phrase, as if it had been a hoax.
West of the Rockies
@emjayay:
Pederasty? One of those four things is not like the others
I know it’s a quote from the musical, but that word (pederasty) isn’t holding up well.
TBone
@emjayay: 😘💙
Baud
The successful effort against Y2K made social media possible.
I say phooey.
schrodingers_cat
@Miss Bianca: Statistical averages say nothing about an individual speciman
TBone
@stinger: for the last time: The attorney seminar for Continuing Legal Education credits (required of attorneys with associated, high dollar fees) was what was funny! LIGHTEN UP, FRANCISES!
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: No, I wasn’t, but I know that treating a massive coordinated effort that averted a disaster as a nothingburger is, at best, counterproductive to future efforts to avert disasters.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@stinger:
Thank you and dnfree for offering some now-historical perspective.
I remember being out for a town celebration in our tiny-ass non-incorporated town in Central Misery. I was on call like y’all, we were still a Novell shop (man am I dating myself) then with only rudimentary remote capabilities. But we were doing that to do what y’all have already described.
And yeah, we spent close to two years coordinating within our mode and across DOT to make sure things didn’t go bad.
And they didn’t. We all did our jobs and did them well and that should be reiterated any time somebody uses “Y2K” as a punchline.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Miss Bianca is outside the standard deviation.
Miss Bianca
@schrodingers_cat: True, dat, and exceptions, rules, etc, but I have my blind spots and losing sight of my own relative privilege in society is one of those things I’ve had to train myself to be aware of. (Actually, it’s mostly been POC handing me my ass that’s done the training. Talk about having your eyes opened with a scalpel!)
@Baud: LOL!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I always thought she was a pretty standard deviant.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Agh, you’re wicked too! (ISWYDT!)
Gwangung
@dnfree: And my point is that THIS DIDNT MATTER to a lot of the people we should concerned about. It seemed to matter to folks on our side.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Baud:
I can vouch for that approach.
I kept my home-delivery subscription long past the point where it was mostly a source of annoyance because (a) delivery was extremely unreliable and (b) what was being delivered was the FTNYT. Finally cancelled and I feel a lot better about myself.
Eyeroller
@Juju.: I do not have a speech impediment and I don’t have direct experience with anybody who does, but I do know that suppressing a stutter can require a significant cognitive effort that can interfere with other forms of language fluency. (Stuttering is a type of “fluency disorder.”) Nobody ever cuts Biden any slack over this, they just go straight to “dementia.” It can 100% explain what happened if he was nervous and having trouble with it, then settled down and got more coherent.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: my original comment (a reply to a comment, btw) was a joke regarding PTSD and my penchant for laughing in the face of fear, as was all my subsequent commentary. Snark meter adjustment in order.
Humor is a necessary component of hope, as Margaret Cho just astutely pointed out on MSNBC a few moments ago. I don’t tend to get immediately frightened – my first response is usually laughter. My humor is not for everyone, I freely admit!
Stalin says dark humor is like food. Not everyone gets it.
Juju.
@gene108: If Biden resigns or dies in office we would have President Kamala Harris, as it should be. Do you have an issue with that? I was actually very worried about the possibility of a Mike Pence presidency if Trump had a stroke or his hamberder or overcooked steak habit got the better of him while he was in office. I can’t imagine which buffoon he is going to choose as a running mate, because it actually makes my head hurt.
Juju.
@Eyeroller: Bingo!!!
dnfree
@stinger: You feel my Y2K pain! It was a massive undertaking, and it was overwhelmingly successful, and…it’s been written off as hysteria when it could be a model of cooperation.
There was an issue of the New Yorker last year that in two different articles used Y2K as a comparison to something overblown that turned out to be nothing. I wrote them a letter and they actually published it, but I fear the lessons are being forgotten as we who did the work age out. I feel like a “veteran” of some forgotten war.
dnfree
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Thank you for weighing in too! Nice to know there are several of us here. There were a LOT of us involved.
TBone
@Baud: will you marry me?
😆
dnfree
@TBone: My point is that Y2K isn’t a punchline. When it is used as one, it’s being used inaccurately.
I’m not lightening up about it when people reference it mockingly. There’s some serious history that has gone down the memory hole for too many people.
in your original reference you didn’t seem to be mocking the seminar itself as much as you seemed to be mocking Y2K as something significant enough to require a seminar. Im trying to do my little bit to enlighten people.
Citizen Alan
@Nukular Biskits:
I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think republicans have souls. And i’ve yet to learn of any republican politicians since I started saying that who proved me wrong.
I will never forget the feeling of revulsion. I got when I saw Philip Gunn, the former speaker of the mississippi house, piously declare his belief that a twelve-year-old girl raped and impregnated by her own father should be forced to carry the incest baby to term because he was “pro-life.” Soulless.
TBone
@dnfree: JFC MY ORIGINAL REPLY WAS TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID GET MY JOKE. Budinsky much?
The rubes WERE AT THE BAR ASSOCIATION GIVING THE SEMINAR!!!!! A bunch of useless information for attorneys! MOVE ON!!!
Can you read the “So sue me” part of my reply? Get it yet???
stinger
@dnfree:
Congrats on having it published! Those lessons about planning and cooperation and prevention should never be forgotten. As someone referenced above, I’m most often reminded of the experience when encountering antivaxxers.
Citizen Alan
@p.a.: I’m not sure if this is what you mean. But I clearly remember gore decisively winning one of his debates against bush in the pulling immediately after the debate. And then, after a week of everyone in the media loudly complaining and whining because gore sighed too loudly in response to bush’s stupid answers, opinion shifted towards bush.
schrodingers_cat
@Eyeroller: Biden is senile narrative was Sanders by the Bernie Sanders inspired left in the 2020 primaries. They remain the beta testing ground for all the RW loathsome ideas.
dnfree
@TBone: Most likely there are areas of your career or field that people sometimes misrepresent in a mocking way. I know I’ve found that in the computer field and my husband has found that probably even more so in the mental health field. Some of them we let pass and others we try to politely inform the person. (And I am trying to be polite throughout our interactions, as I do with other Balloon-Juice commenters. I respect your opinions and those of almost everyone else.)
This particular topic took up a considerable amount of my career (I personally made sure I and my co-workers wrote compliant code starting in 1986). When someone jokes as if Y2K was nothing to be concerned about, or was only being monetized by offering expensive classes, I try to correct that impression. I’m sorry that the result in your case seems to be antagonism.
I sincerely appreciate the other people who weighed in with their Y2K experiences too.
Edited to add that if you read the John Koskinen link I provided, you’ll find that lawyers were heavily involved in Y2K.
schrodingers_cat
Correction:
@schrodingers_cat:
Biden is senile narrative was
Sandersby the Bernie Sanders inspired left in the 2020 primaries. They remain the beta testing ground for all the RW loathsome ideas.A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Quiltingfool: You must be my (old white woman) twin – you just channeled my exact thoughts. Thank you for verbalizing it so well.❤️❤️ (except the part about being from MO. I’m in N CA).
wjca
Um , no. Ordinary people’s gut reactions were: “That Trump is fucking insane!” The memory had apparently faded since 2020. Plus, Trump’s gotten worse. And this wasn’t a soundbyte, it was Trump unfiltered, over and over and over,
We (and, apparently, the pundits) were focused on Biden. The voters, specifically the voters who were somehow undecided (you know, the ones who actually decide elections), saw Trump being Trump and were appalled. Because they mostly ignore politics, they haven’t been hardened to his antics. It hit them hard.
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
Miss Bianca, I like you but enforcing this “nothing happened! it was FINE! Anyone who says different is a WEAKLING” narrative is just not going to work with me. I think that’s bullshit and just a variety of the “fear” you’re all so terrified of.
Understand – I’m not afraid. I am, however, someone who saw that debate as a fucking disaster – like millions and millions of other people. It wasn’t fine. It wasn’t like Obama in 2012. It wasn’t a conspiracy by CNN or the Russians. Joe Biden and his comms team (the people he hired) fucked up.
They should correct whatever it is that caused them to fuck up and that isn’t “Kay on Balloon Juice” – I did not do this.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@zhena gogolia: Exactly! This is what Lawrence O’Donnell keeps pointing out, and mentioning that raising and having enough general election campaign money is not a small technical issue. It is fundamental. Plus, Biden is the sitting president, which is a lot. Incumbancy is powerful. Twice Democrats have run a different candidate from the sitting president (because the president said “fuck this, I’m retiring), and we lost both times (Truman and LBJ). I’m not sure if anyone could have beat Eisenhower, but LBJ would have done better afainst Nixon than poor Humphrey.
Geminid
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): I think LBJ would have won, because Humphrey almost won, and was closing in on Nixon in the last weeks. Theodore White thought he would have won if he’d had a couple more days.
But I think Johnson quit because because he believed the job was going to kill him, and it would have.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@stinger: I worked in DP at a community bank with WAY too much old code, so the bank bought its way out of Y2K by replacing the banking software, which ran on a different computer system with a different OS. Changing the OS was the hardest part for us in DP. We had been speaking French to the computer and now had to learn German.
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
I said the night of the debate that Biden is more likely to win than a replacement so I wouldn’t change it and someone should get fired for the FACT that they all did a bad job.
They let their supporters down and they let the country down. They need to do better work.
I wish he would fire the whole communications team. It would make me think someone was awake at the switch over there, but at the very least he should fire the boss of the communications team. She did a lousy job. It is inexcusable not ot understand how Donald Trump “debates” at this point. My God, they could have watched HOURS of it on you tube. They now have to prove their competency.
Soprano2
@Kay: I’ll be honest, that was my feeling, although as it went on it got better. Biden tried to do too many facts and figures when he should have been generalizing – he got the biggest climate change bill passed, he should have emphasized biggest and best and not tried to say any details. That’s not Monday morning quaterbacking, either, it’s how I think they should all do it. Shoot, he messed up the price of insulin, and I know he knows that! He was best when he was responding from the gut, like his outrage when TCFG said the military didn’t like him.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Geminid: I agree!
Mr. Bemused Senior
“DP.” There’s a term I’ve not heard in a long time. [musing] long… time.
dnfree
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Yes, in my career I went from DP to IS (Information Systems) to IT (Information Technology). I actually thought IS was more accurate as including both hardware and software and connections. No idea if anything has replaced IT.
wjca
Likewise. It passed, looking like a nothing-burger, because a lot of us busted our butts for several years to make that happen.
I suppose one definition of success is that people who weren’t in the trenches assume that the problem was overblown. Which it sure as hell was not! It was a bloody miracle that we pulled it off. I, for one, was sweating bullets that night.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@dnfree: I’m glad your letter was published. There are lots of Y2K jokes [Sundak, Mondak, …] but of course the reason it wasn’t a disaster is exactly that it was foreseen and handled.
The hysteria was a bit overblown, but only a bit.
[ETA I have the distinction of introducing a Y(2K+1) bug which I subsequently had to fix 😁]
Miss Bianca
@Kay: Well, Kay, I like you, too. But your habit of putting words into people’s mouths so you can argue with what you THINK they said is getting mighty tiresome to me. I didn’t say “nothing happened and everything is fine.” I do think that most white Democrats are showing their white asses, however. And if you’re not afraid, as you assert, I do hope you’re pouring almost as much passion and scorn into arguing with your frightened friends as you are into arguing with people here who don’t share your opinion that this one fucking debate is somehow the end of the world. Are you?
I guess they don’t get to be called “ninnies”, to use your favorite word, because you seem to agree with them that this was some huge disaster. I think it was a misstep, personally, but I don’t think it was a disaster, and early polls don’t seem to indicate that it had much effect on voter opinions of *Biden*, but that it definitely had an effect on their opinion of *Trump*.
So yeah, I’ll stand by my hypothesis that maybe your friends’ shit is, in fact, weak. Maybe they’re actually ninnies.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: OK, fine. Let him fire the communications team. As far as I’m concerned, any notion of debates with Trump was a damn dumb idea to begin with.
karen marie
@kindness: I love me some Colbert. I watch him on Youtube the next day. I imagine Jon Stewart and Jerry Seinfeld are good friends. I’m going to leave them to enjoy themselves without me.
Elie
@Kay:
I fully agree w what you say. I am still shaking my head wondering how the communication (or campaign team?) could eff up THIS bad w so much at stake. I’m hoping for some major adjustments/corrections to either or both soon. Real soon cause we don’t have a minute to waste. This was an unforced error.
wjca
Even the Dark Brandon folks? I think they’ve been pretty effective.
TBone
@dnfree: the topic was PTSD.
The fact that I used Y2K as an example with regard to the topic of PTSD, which you subsequently failed to connect in your zeal, seems to indicate a gap in your reading comprehension.
Re: levity in your field of specialization- Who among us doesn’t love a good lawyer joke? Sheesh…
Chris
@dnfree:
Thanks! Much appreciated. Hope the country gives you good news.
dnfree
@TBone:
Your reference to Y2K had a kind of ha-ha emoji. (I’m not an emoji expert.) You appeared to be making fun of the idea that you had to go to a meeting about something so ridiculous (and also that people were making money pumping the meeting and expensive classes about something that was really no big deal).
In other words, you seemed to be implying that Y2K was a nothingburger that a big deal had been made of (maybe so money could be made on expensive classes). That’s how I most often see it referred to these days.
Matt McIrvin
@dnfree: There was Y2K the real software problem, which was a big fucking deal dealt with at great effort, and there was Y2K the thinly veiled excuse for Biblical End Times apocalypticism, which was dumb nonsense.
TBone
@dnfree: as I pointed out continuously today, you missed the entire point of my reply to someone else. Check the subject of the comnent next time. Pompous bloviating doesn’t cover that up.
TBone
@Matt McIrvin: thank you.
dnfree
@TBone: My replies relate primarily to your original comment. Sorry you see my explanation of the significance of Y2K as bloviating. I was going for informative. Y2K was a lot more than a meeting you felt was overblown.
As you may have noted, others in this thread agreed and shared their experiences, which I appreciate. It’s been frustrating to see the experience of working together with governments and countries and other companies on a deadline, and succeeding, be as minimized as it has become.
dnfree
@Mr. Bemused Senior: I’d love to hear about your bug! At my company’s corporate test site, they tested every line of code from each company location for three dates: 12/31/1999 (to be sure the code worked as was); 01/01/2000, the Y2K test; and 02/29/2000, to be sure leap year had been handled correctly.
I’ll just add that the system I remediated code on was the IBM System 38/AS 400/iSeries, my favorite system I ever worked on. That system was developed in the mid-1980s and even included a century data type, value 0 (for 20th century) or 1 (for 21st century).
2liberal
I spent Y2K eve in a call center for Windows NT. We were watching as the midnight hour rolled over the world and the reports were….nothing happened. Thanks go out to all those who labored to make this result happen