Father of Parkland victim slams NRA videos:
"If this was put out by a terrorist organization, we would be raising the terror threat level in this country. Why are we letting this lobby have anything to do with DC? I don't understand it!" https://t.co/9eh7udBMsx pic.twitter.com/FZeTqvTRmK
— ABC News (@ABC) March 7, 2018
“They use their #MSM to assassinate real news…They use their movie stars and singers and comedy shows and awards shows to repeat their narrative over and over again…All to make them march. Make them protest. Make them scream racism and sexism and xenophobia” @DLoesch #Oscars90 pic.twitter.com/yODCIfPfA4
— NRATV (@NRATV) March 4, 2018
From the Washington Post:
… As a culture warrior that has mastered the art of advancing its interests through brutal rhetoric and intense tribalism, the NRA, like President Trump, has become a master of gaining and maintaining power with the fervent support of an engaged minority…
Former NRA executive vice president Warren Cassidy liked to explain that his organization was different from other interest groups: “You’d get a far better understanding” of the NRA, he once told The Washington Post, “if you just approach us as if [we are] one of the world’s great religions.”
For years, the group posted a slogan at the convention booths where it sold insurance policies: “Share the Belief.”
If there was any doubt that the NRA is a terrorist organization, their spokesman is now openly threatening Americans.
If Dana Loesch was a Muslim who addressed America with "your time is running out," we'd be bombing a Middle Eastern country in retaliation by now. https://t.co/RQR0uYNyWT
— Stonekettle (@Stonekettle) March 5, 2018
But remember folks, their main focus is responsible gun owners… that think culture wars are something you buy extra bullets for.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) March 5, 2018
Hey, kids—the House and Senate aren’t going to do anything about guns. Neither is the president, a morally vacant boob who will say anything. We have to do it ourselves. Get as many NRA sweethearts as possible out in November. We can do this.
— Stephen King (@StephenKing) March 3, 2018
"To every spokeswoman with an hourglass who uses free speech to alter and undermine what our flag represents…Your Time is running out. The clock starts now."
–@sarahchad_ #MarchForOurLives pic.twitter.com/k29FB2vHPI— Sarah Chadwick// #NEVERAGAIN (@sarahchad_) March 6, 2018
Omnes Omnibus
Dana Loesch is insane. A spittle-flecked rabid fanatic.
MikeEss
…throwing around words like “assassinate” and implying the end of American civilization, they’re really hoping for some gun nut to do another Dr. Tiller, and blow away some prominent lefty…which they think will advance their cause and stop attempts to regulate firearms…
It’s not gonna work, but there are going to be deaths before a reasonable interpretation of the Second Amendment (more like what was intended when it was written) is finally restored. Dammit, why does everything have to be so difficult…?
Major Major Major Major
I just can’t with these people.
But I did crack the 2/3 mark on the beta version of my novel today!
Mary G
And when accused of being used by Soros, et. al., the kidz tweeted this:
efgoldman
I’m a first amendment absolutist, even for lying, thieving scuzzballs like Loesch. But sometimes my patience is sorely tested.
I feel the tide might be turning, ever so slightly. If it does, it is the kids and social media, in which I generally don’t participate, that will do the trick. Go kids!
Mike in NC
There is only one way that Wayne LaPierre and Dana Loesch should meet their end.
Major Major Major Major
In nerdier news, apparently they’re making a second edition of Pathfinder.
efgoldman
@Mike in NC:
Slowly and painfully, in a cold dank cell.
Omnes Omnibus
Since it is an Open Thread: I signed up for Netflix last week. I binged both seasons of The Crown. Then I started Peaky Fucking Blinders. I am watching season 2 right now. Damn.
Villago Delenda Est
Take these muthafukkas (Samuel L. Jackson voice here) down like Osama bin Laden was taken down.
No quarter for terrorists…foreign or domestic.
SFAW
NPR’s On Point had a segment today regarding the NRA and the actions taken by (among others) companies suck as Dick’s Sporting Goods and Walmart.
Apparently one of the NRA-fellating memes out there is that companies and Corporate America should stay out of political discussions. At the same time as I heard that, I could swear that I also heard Irony screaming in its death-throes. I tried to get through to On Point to point out that the NRA is a FUCKING FRONT ORGANIZATION FOR CERTAIN AMERICAN CORPORATIONS THAT LOVE MAKING IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR ONE PERSON TO KILL AS MANY OTHER PERSONS AS POSSIBLE. Fortunately for the listeners, the lines were jammed, so I couldn’t vent my spleen.
Fucking terrorists.
Mary G
Any front pager around who can let my comment out of moderation jail? It’s a tweet by one of the Parkland kids, who are being yet again accused of being pawns for Soros and the ghost of Saul Alinsky in that they didn’t do their video themselves. It shows them doing their video themselves. God, these kids are pwning the right something awful and I am here for it.
ETA: and while I was pecking that out, someone did, so never mind. In Emily Litella’s voice.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
Getting a new SUV?
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mike in NC:
Accidentally shooting themselves with their own guns?
SFAW
@Mike in NC:
Unfortunately, that can’t happen at NRA HQ, where guns are forbidden (or so I’m told).
Who’da thunk the NRA “leadership” would be a bunch of snowflakes/pu$$ies? (That is, other than all rational persons.)
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: She has long term, serious, and unresolved issues. Such that she is absolutely one of the last people that should ever be allowed around firearms.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/20/style/dana-loesch-national-rifle-association.html
Patricia Kayden
Stephen King is exactly right. Anything short of voting out NRA Puppets in November is a waste of time. Republicans aren’t going to change because the NRA dictates their stance on guns. Vote them out.
mai naem mobile
I really want Dana Loesch,Dolt45,Betsy Devos,Ivanka,Erik Prince and some RWNJ Florida legislators who are for teachers being armed to go through a mock SWAT situation and see what happens. I mean a realistic mock situation with kids in the classroom and local cops and all. I don’t know what kind of bullets or paintball guns or whatever they use in mock situations but I guarantee there will be teachers and kids nock killed.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
That’s super fucked up. Dana Loesh is saying this shit in the hopes that NRA crazies are going to kill anyone who will dare to oppose them.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
Wow. Her issues have issues, as they say.
Patricia Kayden
@Omnes Omnibus: Which is precisely why she shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun. She’s dangerous unless she’s just bluffing and pretending to be off her rocker.
jacy
Needs more Jax puppeh.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: From the self described “armed intelligentsia”:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/robert-farago/dicks-sporting-goods-supports-gun-control/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/robert-farago/blackrocks-approach-companies-manufacture-distribute-civilian-firearms/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/robert-farago/smith-wesson-american-outdoor-brands-to-blackrock-foad/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/sam-hoober/modest-proposal-concerning-dicks-sporting-goods-walmart-rest/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/blackrocks-post-parkland-approach-to-gun-makers-black-mail/
Omnes Omnibus
@mai naem mobile: Erik Prince might do okay given his background. None of the others would.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G:
Redshift
@efgoldman:
Yeah, I guess inciting stochastic terrorism isn’t illegal. In any case, the best thing we can do is take away their toys, not their speech.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: It’s sad. In all senses of the word.
Mike in NC
@Omnes Omnibus: Netflix is worse than crack.
Omnes Omnibus
@Redshift: I am with efg here. I suspect that we may be a minority on this blog. The 1st has no limiting language. The 2d does.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I find out on Saturday if I’m one of the 6 finalists in the writing contest I entered. I basically have no fingernails left.
Jager
I’m a retired broadcaster…believe me if somebody would have taken Dana aside 20 odd years ago and said, “Dana there’s big bucks in being a lefty talk show host.” she would have done it in a split second. She’d probably have a slot on MSNBC right now. Her ideology is money, period.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: is this the one you entered cuz they score you?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: And yet we do regulate the 1st much more than the 2nd.
hellslittlestangel
I don’t think we’ll see change until a right-wing gun nut assassinates a Supreme Court justice. So, yeah, pretty soon.
Jay
@SFAW:
Nope. Legal Gun’s are fine at NRA headquarters.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in NC: I never tried crack.
Redshift
@Adam L Silverman: I wonder how much of that is true. Actually, I suspect it’s mostly true, just hyped for maximum “be scared unless you got guns!”
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
And yet we have libel and slander laws, plus laws against verbally inciting a riot, so even the 1st Amendment has some limits.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: And that is fucked up.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: No, this is the one where they demand her fingernails.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I didn’t say it doesn’t.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
That’s the one. So even if I lose, I win, because I get comments back.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Out of curiosity, what law do you practice?
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: “what’s it like? I mean, it’s great. It’s crack. It gets you really high.”
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
What would that be? “Well regulated Militia”? Or “people” instead of “persons”? No, I’m not trying to be a smartass.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I have done a variety of things. Right now, I am doing tax law.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
And now I’m going to drop that argument and zoom off in another direction entirely:
We basically have to choose between the 1st and 2nd Amendments. We can have unlimited crazy conspiracy speech OR we can have unlimited access to guns, but we can’t have both, because that’s what’s killing people.
An armed society is one that has no freedom of speech, which is pretty much exactly what that an armed society is a polite society meme means — people will be afraid to speak up if everyone is armed and can kill them for doing so.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: The militia clause.
Adam L Silverman
@hellslittlestangel: We had one of these guys lay in wait and take out a Federal court judge’s family in Chicago in 2005. This was a year after a white supremacist tried to assassinate her. Didn’t even make a dent.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0503010123mar01-story.html
The perpetrator was someone with business before her court:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/us/judge-returns-to-the-bench-after-killings-in-her-family.html
There have also been several US Attorneys and Associate US Attorneys murdered. Hasn’t made a dent at all.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Be sure to tell raven about Peaky Blinders. He will squee. He has been pushing it for ages.
Fair Economist
@Major Major Major Major: I have never been able to find the time to play an RPG since college.
Adam L Silverman
@Redshift: Who knows. She obviously believes it enough to tell it to people. All that matters is her subjective belief.
SFAW
@hellslittlestangel:
Only if it’s Alito or Gorsuch. Were it RBG, Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, or even Kennedy, it would all be met with (behind closed doors) cheers from the people who already support unfettered access to assault weapons, etc.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes it is. As you know well, other than the 2nd, under the reimagining done by the NRA and their fellow travelers, there is not a single one of those amendments, or the enumerated, explicit, and/or implicit rights in them that we don’t regulate somewhat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: No fucking shit. I am more or less down with Cole’s gun post after the last shooting. My differences with him would be at the margins. I said that in the thread. Don’t try to start a fight where one does not exist.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus:
Vaya con Dios. Especially if you’re trying to make sense out of the current atrocity that just passed.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Cool.
NotMax
Not to derail the conversation, but as it’s an Open Thread –
Gives a whole new meaning to ‘secret service’ (emphasis added).
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Can you tell me tricks to avoid paying my taxes?//
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: Gah!
Steeplejack
@jacy:
Permission denied to see picture.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Can you pay me cash money?
Matt McIrvin
@hellslittlestangel:
But he’d kill one of the liberals, so it’d prevent the change from ever happening.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not fighting, just jumping onto my soapbox. That’s why I said I was dropping my first statement and going a different direction.
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: Maybe the next season of Harmonquest will use it. :)
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Congratulations!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sure, I can have my man deliver it to you in denominations of 100. Very discrete.
trollhattan
@efgoldman:
You could be right, I hope so. It’s not limited to Florida, to be sure. Got this email from the school district today.
Note they’re not threatening the kids ala Texas.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Just to let you know, Netflix’ AI gets better over time in offering recommendations based on what you have already chosen to view. Still includes some things which make one go “Huh?” but the more you watch, the less frequent they become.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I say that the 1st outweighs the 2d. Say what you want; don’t shoot people who disagree.
mai naem mobile
@Omnes Omnibus: I think Erik Prince would either mock kill an innocent or be mock killed by a cop. His training is not going to have involved shooting while teaching a bunch of noisy adolescents.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: I have seen that already.
jacy
@Steeplejack:
Fixed. Stupid toggles.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
If I’m a finalist, I get to pay out of my own pocket to go to the weekend conference in Chicago! ?
(I don’t actually have to go, but as G said, if I’m a finalist, why would I not go? But I won’t know for at least 2 more days. ?)
chris
@Mnemosyne: Since we’re dreaming here I don’t see why you can’t have gun laws with teeth and hate speech laws with more teeth. Most civilised countries do.
trollhattan
@Jager:
Suspect you’re spot on. Having made her choice she’s now eligible for rot-in-hell status. You can be a wingnut spokesdrome and not threaten people, although the bonuses could be smaller.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@NotMax:
You haven’t seen the recommendations that YouTube gives me. It tends to give me weirdly reactionary videos to watch no matter how many times I say I’m not interested.
trollhattan
@chris:
Charlottsville march would have been illegal in Germany. They kinda learned after the fact free speech isn’t totally free.
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
That’s too bad. The school district where our niece attends outside of Chicago allowed the students to go out and protest as long as they were not disruptive or violent. Teachers had to stay in their classrooms, which I was okay with since this is being led by the kids.
Can you call or email the principal to complain? If enough parents do that, they might back down.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Netflix is YouTube where?
Matt McIrvin
@chris: I remain convinced that in the US, European-style hate-speech laws would immediately be deployed against liberals for condemning conservatives and racists. I don’t think we can have them here without very bad consequences.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
NotMax mentioned Netflix’s AI making recommendations. That reminded me of YouTube’s crappy AI.
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: Yep, shutting people up can go both ways.
eclare
@jacy: Cute!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Matt McIrvin:
What comes around goes around as they say.
chris
@trollhattan: We’re not big on Nazis in Canada either. See Ernst Zundel.
eclare
@Omnes Omnibus: Watch the episode of Dirty Money about the maple syrup heist, hysterical. Like The Wire but with maple syrup….one person’s title is Maple Syrup Lawyer.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Do you want to be jailed for calling someone a Nazi?
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: In Western Europe they seem to do OK with them. But our right has already spent decades developing the idea that they’re the real aggrieved parties and the left is unjustly intolerant of their intolerance. I could see any anti-Nazi-rally law being manipulated to shut down BLM.
chris
@Matt McIrvin: Heh, it would be a true “both sides” issue. Still better than shooting each other.
ETA Than, dammit!
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Does burnsie know?
Mike J
@MikeEss:
I have to admit that in my darker moments I wish someone would do something awful to a Republican, but then I realise 1) I’m not a horrible person and B) it would wind up being counter productive.
Yutsano
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: @Omnes Omnibus: I’M WATCHING YOU BOTH NOW!!!
Adam L Silverman
@jacy: Bad toggles, bad, bad toggles.
What?
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: Western Europe, even the UK, never had our free speech tradition. How do you impose it from the top down?
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
I have a question. Have plausible is it that an American CEO of a major conglomerate could fund neo-Nazi terror groups circa the early 80s and have ties to high placed white supremacists around the globe under the radar while pretending to be a progressive Elon Musk-type, under the radar? Am I getting into comic book territory?
Adam L Silverman
@chris: I think I see your problem:
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I do what I do to survive.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: He can’t afford me. No worries.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
or Robert Ludlum.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
The last time I was in a serious RPG campaign, we pretty much threw away every system and let dice rolls help guide the story we were collectively telling. Of course I was working in a gaming department for the guy who wrote White Plume Mountain, so everyone involved was pretty hardcore. No rules lawyers, no arguing over do I need an 11 or a 12, just play the story and what the GM said is what happened.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
I demand satisfaction. How dare you insult my wealth. Pistol’s at dawn!
chris
@Adam L Silverman: Indeed, it was a hint. As a Canadian I’m required to be too polite to say what sometimes needs to be said.
Jager
@trollhattan: The SOP in conservative talk is you have to take whatever Rush says to the next level, get crazier. At the same time you have to be wilder than your fellow hosts on your local station, the nuttier, the louder the better for your career. When Dana was on the air in St. Louis she started at about a 4 level, moved to 8, got on Bill Maher from time to time, cranked it to 10 and got too crazy for the station, which means they couldn’t sell her. Michael Savage has the same problem, big numbers and the local station can’t give him away. She’s lucky she got the gig with the NRA, wonder what she had to do to get it? I watched the same shit go on with religious broadcasters, the crazier the Revelations bullshit the better they did. I heard a religious talk host do an hour about how to use the fear of demons to discipline your kids while I was driving across the desert one night.
,
B.B.A.
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Isn’t that just Peter Thiel with better PR? (In other words, Elon Musk?)
efgoldman
@chris:
Other countries, no matter how democratic, don’t have a bill of rights. “Congress shall make no law….” seems pretty clear to me. As Omnes and Matt have said, no way to shade it just for speech we don’t like.
Citizens’ United (and its predecessor, Valeo) are abominations and must be overturned someday.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: well, you’re definitely getting into the territory of the sorta villain I’d come up with, which might be even worse
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Two more tidbits about Netflix, the first handy and the second a bit of a bother.
1) You can change the color, size, font and background of subtitles on the Netflix web site. May take up to 24 hours for the change to lock in.
2) Should you begin watching something and then decide part way through that you are not interested in watching it after all, the only way to remove it from your watch list is by going to the web site, and it’s a teensy bit tricky to do there.
Scamp Dog
@SFAW: There’s also the line “She doesn’t just have issues, she’s got a subscription.”
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: depends on what sorta game you feel like playing, of course. My most memorable tabletop experience was a game of Paranoia.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
I do wonder, though, if there could be a way to put more teeth into libel and slander laws by having there be a civil penalty for printing or otherwise promulgating “facts” that are known to be false. For example, make it possible to suppress a book that claims the Holocaust never happened on the grounds that the facts show that the book is false.
efgoldman
@Mike J:
They did. RWNJ from LA was shot at softball practice.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
One more thing: the CEO guy has ties to dissatisfied Soviet functionaries as well. Together, they plot to use alien technology to control the minds of everyone else and wipe out all non-European Whites.
This is mostly background.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne:
Known by, as determined by…?
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: way to bury the lede.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I am an officer and gentleman by Act of Congress. Can you offer equal status? If not, we cannot duel. There are rules,
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
I suspected the Stalin thing was a way to fish for book ideas while they were still nebulous.
Also, that’s kind of the plot of Kingsman.
Matt McIrvin
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Peter Thiel’s about 70% of the way there.
Jay
@efgoldman:
We have a Charter.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Thanks.
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: Who decides what’s known to be false? About half of the time there’s a faction in control that insists global warming is known to be false.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: The computer is your friend.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Science and physical evidence. People should not be allowed to publicly claim that Sandy Hook was a hoax when there is actual physical evidence to prove otherwise.
And someone who manufactures fake evidence gets a double penalty.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Have feelers out and for now telling the kid we will back her with whatever she decides.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: At the very beginning I passed each player a form to fill out. One of the forms was in German, and when the player asked if it was supposed to be in German, I had them executed for questioning the computer, and knowing of German.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne:
Refereed by…?
ETA autocorrect
debbie
Bet Richard Spencer’s one of Dana Loesch’s biggest fanboys.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: I think we should set up a discord.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Golly.
B.B.A.
@efgoldman:
Most of them do, actually. France’s is older than ours (though it hasn’t been in force continuously).
They tend to interpret theirs a lot more narrowly than we interpret ours, such that e.g. a law banning campaign ads on TV isn’t considered an infringement of freedom of speech. But they have them.
NotMax
@Mike J
If you haven’t already seen it, a very cute, funny movie about RPG playing is a little crowd-funded gem called The Gamers: Dorkness Rising.
You will recognize the character types as portrayed to a T from your own gaming group. trailer
Available on Amazon Prime. Believe also on YouTube.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s part of our current problem, isn’t it? There is no standard for proving that a fact is true or false, so gun nuts can claim that no one died at Parkland and all of the kids currently protesting are actors being paid by George Soros, and there is absolutely no way to stop them. The kids are now public figures, so they can’t sue for libel or slander.
We really need to stop pretending that the claim that no one died at Parkland and it’s all a massive hoax by the government is “free speech.”
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
I never watched the Kingmen.
The plot doesn’t work out so well when the world blows itself up in late ’83. Although the dude does go on to become the biologically immortal dictator of humanity in a interstellar empire.
Another idea I had was the Star Wars program nearly comes to fruition under the villain’ s aegis, Hardcastle Industries. Instead of missile defense, it would control the minds of everyone aside from him (he doesn’t like sharing power).
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: Be the change.
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Ah, it’s this story.
@Mnemosyne: But we can keep moon landing conspiracies, right? And chemtrails, pretty please?
Omnes Omnibus
@B.B.A.: Are you here as a commenter or as a troll? You have done both. One wonders, as one does…
jl
I think a more accurate description is that it is a money and profit cult that is completely indifferent to the associated mayhem, racism, injury and death.
chris
@efgoldman: We do have a bill of rights which includes freedom of expression. It’s modern, passed in 1982, so it has a “notwithstanding clause” that allows government to fine tune some of those rights. There have been a a couple of high profile cases of Holocaust deniers running smack into that one. Seems to work as advertised.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Ever since the Kennedy assassination and man landing on the moon, conspiracy nuts have perfected their skills in denial of reality and obfuscation of evidence.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
A brief, shining moment in Paranoia that is still talked about in our gaming group from time to time was when I managed to give a totally logical within the game yet totally out of left field statement and rendered the computer speechless.
B.B.A.
@Omnes Omnibus: I love you too.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
That’s what would make it an expansion of existing libel and slander laws. If, say, Mr. Guttenberg above finds out that someone is claiming his murdered daughter never existed or that he’s part of a conspiracy, he should be able to take them to court and get some kind of court order requiring them to STFU because they’re lying.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: Mike J should set up a Discord.
Jay
LMFAO
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/971402791930552322
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: How do you want it to work? Please design the program for only truth being reported.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne:
It’s slander. But the kids have to be aggrieved by it. They can’t just go to court because it’s wrong.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
You do realize I was joking.
Omnes Omnibus
@B.B.A.: I asked you a question.
Mike J
@NotMax: Added to my watchlist.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
And the fact that our libel laws have such a high bar to meet is part of what fuels those conspiracies. Because Buzz Aldrin is a public figure, he has no recourse when a crazy guy harasses him in public and claims the moon landing never happened. So Aldrin has to ignore the guy (unless he becomes grabby, which is when Aldrin decked him) and let him continue to claim that Aldrin is a liar because our laws don’t allow him to do anything else since the guy has a free speech right to say anything he wants.
NotMax
@Yutsano
Yup. Free speech does not mean free from repercussions.
Except on FOX.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
That’s how we do it up here, STFU, retraction, damages.
Works well enough, but it worked better when we had HRC’s that took the lead. The Con’s killed those off last time they were in power, tired of getting their asses sued for lying.
They might be coming back though.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: I will, but not tonight. I decided to have a smoke and watch the dumbest movie on my hard drive and I’m very, very close to giving up on half of that. I think they tried too hard to make it smart when they should have gone for 24 minutes of Dr Shrinker.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
From my quick glance, the motivations are different. The motivations depend on the person in the org. The American and the South African character are white supremacists through and through. The Soviets not as much. They just dislike current Soviet leadership (Andropov) and crave power (and kinda want to end the Cold War permanently). The other western businessmen involved see dollar signs and also want power.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: hide… behind… the pile… of dead… bards…
I actually just finished revising a scene in my novel that ends with a bard joke.
Mnemosyne
@Yutsano:
The kids are now public figures, so they will have to prove “actual malice.” Even then, the likelihood of them being able to shut down even one conspiracymonger is infinitesimal, because free speech is very broad and you can’t get a judgment against someone just because they lied.
Calouste
@efgoldman: The US Bill of Rights is just stuff they forgot to put into the constitution at the first go around. The Founding Fathers gave it a fancy name to cover up their failures, and American mythology did the rest.
trollhattan
John Oliver takes on NRA TV. Must see teevee. Trust me (or I’ll…uh…)
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Wait, what? I was just saying that this is about that story I’ve seen you mention from time to time.
jacy
@Adam L Silverman:
Sad thing: my dog knows I’m cheating on him with another dog.
B.B.A.
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve repeatedly sworn off trolling, but nothing I say will please you, will it?
Hence my response above.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Calouste:
If memory serves the Federalists didn’t believe the Bill of Rights was necessary.
Jay
@jacy:
You are not cheating, your dog just wants a threesome.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Whoops. I thought you said the Kingsmen was basically my story. My bad.
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: Okay, but… you do realize “reforming” libel laws is a favorite cause of our current President? He is terribly keen on lowering that bar to the ground so he can sue his thousands of critics and abusers into oblivion.
I just am not convinced that any loosening of speech protections in the First Amendment, in the American political environment we have, wouldn’t be used first and foremost to crush critics of the powerful and enforce lies rather than punishing them. Ken Cuccinelli probably would have gotten Michael Mann thrown in the slammer for promulgating global warming and thereby slandering Exxon.
Mnemosyne
@NotMax:
The court decison that Fox News is allowed to broadcast stuff that they know to be lies was pretty much the death of the 1st Amendment, because it means that it’s impossible to punish liars.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
This is the exact same argument the NRA uses: we can’t have even the smallest gun control law because it will force us down a slippery slope where all guns will be taken away.
You may be fine with people like Dana Loesh whipping her followers into a frenzy by claiming that Parkland is a hoax, but I’m not. If someone ends up dead because of it, the 1st Amendment will be partially to blame.
chris
@Jay: Supreme shitweasel Ezra Levant of Rebel Media springs immediately to mind. Assholery has legal consequences in Canada.
Jay
@Matt McIrvin:
Works fine in the ROW.
You do realize that your root argument, “It wouldn’t work here”, is based in the belief that ‘Murkins are beyond redemption?
Brachiator
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
James Madison originally opposed the Bill of Rights. Among the concerns was the fear that if a right was not specifically mentioned, some people might think that those rights did not exist.
Jay
@chris:
Yup, Your Ward News, etc.
But it worked better when Human Rights Councils took the lead, rather than individuals having to front the costs.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
I wish we could uprate comments bigly.
chris
@Jay: Agreed. Took me a minute to remember what HRCs were on this here Yankee blog.
Feathers
My fave tweet on Loesch, from fantasy author Cathrynne Valente:
I’m eagerly awaiting Valente’s new book, Space Opera, a tale of Eurovision in space, determining the fate of Earth.
Jay
@chris:
Yup, Warman shut down a shitload of Nazi’s and Asshats,
But it was “better” when there was an arm of the Governmentnset up to combat lies.
Major Major Major Major
@Feathers:
Wasn’t that a Rick & Morty episode?
B.B.A.
@Jay:
See, I used to think this, but after Germany was roped into prosecuting someone for an obscure offense of “insulting the dignity of a foreign head of state” (it was something like a tweet criticizing Erdogan) I’m not so sure.
chris
@Jay: We should fix that. I’ve made a note to look into it in the AM.
It’s very late so I’m for bed. I’ll just leave the kitties here.
patrick II
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you haven’t seen “Wind River” I highly recommend it. It is now on Netflix. Set in Wyoming, it stars Jeremy Renner as a tracker with the Fish and Wildlife service who helps an inexperience FBI agent track down the killer of an Indian girl.
White men who rape Indian women on reservations cannot be tried in tribal court. The FBI will only get involved if it is murder. The movie is moving, not preachy, and highlights a real problem.
Jay
@B.B.A.:
There was an investigation, no grounds were found, nothingburger, Nunenburger.
When we had Human Rights Councils, anybody, ( almost anybody, some CT Alex Jones fans got banned) could “lay a complaint”,
The complaint would be investigated. 43% of the time, it went nowhere.
Despite what “The Rebel” would have you believe, ain’t Big Brother. I got “hauled” into one. They were very accomodating to my schedule. We had tea, coffee, a nice chat, and at the 15 minute mark, a very nice woman popped in with cookies and brownies. There was a “emotional support animal”, available if I needed one.
( Yup, went for heavy petting the dog).
The reality was, only assholes and butfucks needed to “fear” HRC Investigations, like Donnie, and Tangerine Jr.
Citizen Alan
@Matt McIrvin:
Every time there’s a shooting, I immediately recall that Merrick Garland would have probably been the 5th vote to reverse Heller. And my hatred for the Bernie swine grows.
Citizen Alan
@Mike J:
I really don’t think I would give a shit at this point. I didn’t particularly feel bad when that nutcase in DC opened fire on a bunch of Repukes at a softball game, and I don’t think I’d have felt different if he’d actually taken some of them out.
Steve in the SFO
@Omnes Omnibus: Omnes is the new Burnsie!
Jay
@Jay:
BTW, I meant “butfuck’s” not in the concept of gay sex, or pegging, but in the concept of Russian Pee Hookers.
NobodySpecial
@Mike J: These are the glory days of story based and rules light RPGs. Most of them are indie, though, and most of the mass media is still focused on D&D exclusively. I love 5e, but all the games I want to play and run are indie, like Delta Green (Lovecraftian modern horror), Eclipse Phase (Altered Carbon inspired transhumanism), and Red Markets (Economic horror nerd troped with zombies).