Here’s one of the ACLU’s advocacy efforts for the week:
Here’s one from Reason:
August 20 is Lemonade Freedom Day! In response to a rash of kids’ lemonade stands shut down for lack of licenses, permits, or other bureaucratic devices, father-of-two Robert Fernandes launched a site to promote a big citrusy celebration this Saturday. So go find some young ‘uns and get ready to help them set up a lemonade stand for liberty.
If anyone ever asks why we use the term “glibertarian” around here, give them a link to this post.
(Both via EDK)
Update: Just in case it isn’t clear, the point is that the ACLU is doing their usual excellent advocacy job on a substantive issue, while Reason picked some sideshow to highlight.
Linda Featheringill
The ACLU message is actually quite interesting.
JGabriel
Shorter Reason Magazine: When life hands you lemons, make liberty!
.
Alwhite
While I agree that more prisons and more prisoners is not the answer I think the ACLU has produced a giant softball that any room temp IQ or above (so even Bobo) can whack out of the park thereby ignoring their point.
RossInDetroit
Lemonade is important. On 8/20 one of our schools will attempt to break the world’s record for longest lemonade stand.
Linda Featheringill
Lemonade stands are suburban middle class. Nobody else participates in that sort of thing. [You need foot traffic, some disposable income, and safety for the young business people.]
On the other hand, Reason is probably suburban middle class, too, and not directed at the rest of us.
boomshanka
Didn’t Reason just dedicate an entire issue to discussing prison reform?
MBL
Grr. I hate it when advocacy organizations that I share goals with (like the ACLU) pull crap like that chart.
Somebody find me a wrist to slap.
Big Baby DougJ
Ha ha!
Southern Beale
Meanwhile, over in the land of Gannett, a shoddy piece of
fearmongeringreporting on the Tennessee Board Of Parole & Probation’s “phone-in” tracking program, which allows some parolees to phone in with their parole officers instead of in-person, has caused quite an uproar. It lumped perfectly good citizens, people who have done their time and gone on with their lives and been “rehabilitated” in with dangerous felons, all to further their “dangerous criminals! Lax oversight! They’re comin’ fer yer guns and white wimmin!” message.sparky
gotta agree with #3.
additionally, the people at the ACLU are not stupid, so that leaves the unsettling probability that they think the general public is. not that they are wrong, necessarily, but this is a rather cynically-minded piece of work. or really stupid.
or was the point of this post that the ACLU can screw up too, though in a “better” way?
superluminar
yet again, glibertarian fluffer mistermix gives approval to link-whore ED Kain and the Reason people, i hav neeww def. of libertarian = a wingnut with a college degreee and a lemonadestand. ballonjuice cannot be prostelytized by glibertarians as it is immune, this is my unified theory of WAI: BJ IQ is too high compared to reasonIQ…
I think that about covers it…
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
You make a fine understudy, Superluminar
Omnes Omnibus
@superluminar: WEC cudlip retard from Distributed JesusLand. You forgot that.
geg6
Fuck the Reasonoids. They are, even taking into consideration the Teabaggers, the stupidest people on earth. I don’t expect much from old, white, sexist/racist males but you’d think people with actual college degrees would have a brain cell or two.
Anyway, this is a much better topic to discuss:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/obamas_immigration_breakthroug031652.php
Good news. It’s what’s for breakfast.
MagicPanda
And here I thought the good folks at Reason only cared about the rights of corporations, not people. As it turns out, they also care about making symbolic gestures to champion the rights of cute young humans who are pretending to be tiny corporations.
arguingwithsignposts
@geg6: But, but, Obama doesn’t use the bully pulpit! Not enough! Too late!
nb4 firebagger/obot clash.
Ben Cisco
@superluminar: OK, that was eerie.
MagicPanda
@Omnes Omnibus: Ack! Stop it!
El Cid
Our billion dollar news media once again manage to prioritize the important issues in their coverage of manly manly big Texas gun-totin’ man Rick Perry.
Such cynicism about and liberal news reporter hatred for Republicans is a true scandal of the librul drive-by medja.
Thankfully, few will make it to those boring final paragraphs urging caution and noting that another Texan fake populist college cheerleader mean Governor is aiming to take the Preznitzy, and instead will walk away with the knowledge gained in those first few paragraphs that Rick Perry is a loyal Aggie which helped his farm boy charm and who bravely used Corps values to avoid being corrupted by the establishment, and if he becomes President, Texas A&M will get more media attention…
Chyron HR
Oh, so now right-wingers claim to love lemonade stands? GO FIGURE.
WereBear
I wish I had a nickel for everytime one of these loons attempts to explain why punitive, nasty, and coercive methods work for everything, from a stubborn pickle jar to a child abused and ignored since birth.
They are especially stupid about the pitfalls of authoritarian child-rearing; and we had a murder recently, to show how not obvious it can be to not beat a child to death.
Thus, love of prisons!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Alwhite: Yeah, but it’s not like the right has paid attention to reality before. If we had to take into account the wingers reactions to every fact written, we couldn’t publish anything. And then they would win.
mistermix
@Alwhite: Why don’t you stand up at the plate and take a swing, then?
Jay in Oregon
I started to watch this Thom Hartmann clip about the amazing disappearing Ron Paul in the discussion of the Republican candidates, and when it got to his guest, Mike Riggs of Reason, I had to turn it off because Riggs’ smugness just got to be too much.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT#p/u/14/T15dvpnwPJo
First, he answered Hartmann’s question of “Would you vote for Ron Paul?” by proudly stating he was a “principled non-voter”, then started talking about how he liked Gary Johnson “if he was going to vote for anyone”.
arguingwithsignposts
@El Cid: I got news for them. Aggie jokes have been a staple in Texas since time immemorial.
Southern Beale
I read WingNut Daily so you don’t have to:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Right wing wackadoodle talk radio isn’t failing, it’s going strong! It’s all an evul librul conspiracy started by those uppity brown people just to make it LOOK like no one listens to Rush anymore!
HA HA HA HA HA
Samara Morgan
@superluminar: nope, a glibertarian does it for pageclicks.
they all all expect to be paid for their “thotz” because they are soooo much more enlightened than the rest of the proles.
Like always, I’ll just link some of some of my favorite Kain Krapology from his own blog where mistermix, glibertarian fluffer, apparently doesnt read.
if i may remind you juicers, Kain parleyed his pulpit here into a paid gig at Forbes, a union roundtable, and the presidents ear.
Might as well link Douthat and McArdle, mistermix.
@Jay in Oregon: you know who else likes GaJo?
EDK is who. He’d vote for him too.
El Cid
If this is true, it’s a very good thing for Libya and North Africa and the Middle East in general.
First (for me) it means that my feeling (and statements) that I didn’t see a clear victory for the anti-Qaddafi forces as most likely (I hoped for one) but rather a messy continuation were wrong, assuming the pro-Qaddafi forces as actually constituted by rival regional interests (“tribes”) don’t continue with a lower intensity continued civil war.
Second, it’s at least the chance for a at least a semi-centralized government to be not just less repressive but a much more functional government than the pathetic Iraqi non-state. Which is anything but a suggestion of a uniform trend toward a better life once the quick advances of it just not being Qaddafi are achieved.
Patrick Cockburn, among many very long-time regional and Libya reporters and analysts and researchers, advocates extreme caution with portraying the rebel coalition as thoroughly trustworthy forces. But it’s the opportunity for history versus a crumbling stagnation.
superluminar
@Samara Morgan: ok, i agree. but how does that fit into your Unified Theory of Libertarianism? I think it needs modification.
Angelia
We had the GLiberterians here in Norfolk VA this morning protesting the launch of the first lightrail system in this state.
Samara Morgan
EDK on GaJo.
EDK on the Utoya massacre– skeery moozlems did eeet!.
is Kain paying you, mistermix? or are you angling for that paid gig of your own?
Samara Morgan
EDK on GaJo.
EDK on the Utoya massacre– skeery moozlems did eeet!.
is Kain paying you, mistermix? or are you angling for that paid gig of your own?
Samara Morgan
EDK on GaJo.
EDK on the Utoya massacre– skeery moozlems did eeet!.
is Kain paying you, mistermix? or are you angling for that paid gig of your own?
Samara Morgan
EDK on GaJo.
EDK on the Utoya massacre– skeery moozlems did eeet!.
is Kain paying you, mistermix? or are you angling for that paid gig of your own?
Samara Morgan
@superluminar: the Mistermix Axiom of the Unified Field Theory of Libertarianism– all libertarians expect to be PAID for the infinitely superior intellectual property of their thoughts…..sooner or later….and I (mistermix) am going to help them get there!
AMG can you believe this crap?
The pompous little assclown just cant quit the Free Market Fantasy Forest, can he?
Samara Morgan
@El Cid:
?? WTF el Campeador?
2.5 million Iraqi citizens just signed a petiton to tell America to GTFO in December.
sounds like a functioning democracy to me.
thats the equivalent of ~35 million americans signing a petition.
Samara Morgan
why dont you just mainline that glibertarian asswhipe Yglesias directly mistermix?
all Kain does is link him.
quit with the fucking skin pops….just go full-frontal glibertarian, mistermix, and shoot up the full strength glibertarian smack.
Aimai
Yes reason is dumb and the ACLU is good but the ACLU flyer is terrible. The average person won’t have the faintest idea what is going on in the graph or why it matters. A strong photo of a sweet looking kid behind bars that morphs into a tattoed lifer would be better.
with the legend
in prison I learned from the best teachers. Now I’m returning the favor!
At the bottom the flyer should say
ny reduced prisons and crime ask how your state can do the same.
Aimai
Samara Morgan
@mistermix: why dont you take a swing yourself?
instead of repackaging glibertarian crapology dor the juicers.
go for it.
Link Yglesias directly.
you know you want to.
chopper
it’s like summoning Beetlejuice, only way more annoying and not the slightest bit funny.
MikeBoyScout
So the upshot from the intellects at Reason is that those who lost their jobs manufacturing things and took a job at Walmart and lost that should no longer be considering going all independent capitalist and opening a Lemonade Stand to support their family?
Dear Reasonoids, should they sell apples on the street?
Paul in KY
IMO, everyone who posts here (other than a few dicks) needs to be a member of the ACLU. I am.
Paul in KY
@El Cid: I fucking hate Texas A & M. Was bummed out when I thought they were coming into SEC. Just what UK needs, another great football school to whomp on us.
Now that I know ‘Chaps’ is a grad of that school, I hate them even more.
Samara Morgan
@chopper: oh fuckk off or contribute.
i think mistermix has a secret lech for glibertarians.
he keeps linking them.
Samara Morgan
@Paul in KY: ditto.
Paul in KY
@Aimai: That does sound better than what they did.
Amir Khalid
@chopper:
I may have missed this, or maybe it happened elsewhere; but what’s her beef with ED Kain anyway? With me, I know, it’s her insistence that I’m infatuated with the West (an odd accusation, coming from a Muslim Westerner).
dpCap
Those lemonade stories always pissed me off in how much of a lie they are. The reason the police are shutting down these “kids” (even though they’re really just set up by their glibtarian parents) is because the other street vendors were threatening to kill them and the police didn’t want a street level brawl over rights to sell lemonade!
Jebuz, you’d think these people assume they live alone in this world and when they want to do something, everyone one else is just expected to get out of their way.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: i said you were CHARMED by the west. and im not sure you can claim to be a muslim and ignore shariah and quranic exegesis.
but wat ev.
Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: I’ve read you talking about drinking intoxicating liquors. Aren’t muslimas supposed to abstain? Wallah, etc. ;-)
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid:
i loathe glibertarians…Kain, de Bore ,Yglesias, GG, they are alla same.
crypto-conservative free market fucktard spin..
Samara Morgan
@Paul in KY: not Sufis.
we drink, we dance.
we dance in the middle of the fighting.
Bulworth
@Southern Beale: This is terrible. If
talkhate radio is sunk, where will we go to hear all those witty Obama-Oreo-cookie jokes?Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: Now I know why you’re a Sufi :-)
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: lemonade stands are a gateway drug for cartels and regulatory capture.
:)
Samara Morgan
@Paul in KY: exactly.
i relly just wanna dance.
Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: Cool video! Thanks for linking to it. I think if I became Muslim, I’d be a Sufi too.
Ash Can
Yeah, like matoko is old enough to drink.
As for Reason, straw men have been their bread and butter for years. If they had to rely consistently on actual substantive issues they wouldn’t exist.
Paul in KY
@Ash Can: From some earlier comments she has made & doing teh mafs, I think she’s in her early 30s.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
And the difference is … ?
Matt
For bonus glibertarian points, Reason should have included a sidebar explaining just exactly how much urine you can put in lemonade (to reduce costs, natch) before people can taste it. After all, that’s the profit-maximizing solution… ;)
Ash Can
@Paul in KY: From all of her earlier comments, I don’t believe it.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
someone who pumps out the same moronic gibberish boilerplate you vomit up every time someone mentions the three letters “E”, “D” and “K” together doesn’t get to talk about ‘contributions’. you’re like jack chick on a cup of LSD.
Samara Morgan
@chopper: sure i do.
i just got banned for three days for telling the truth.
an’ im sick of mistermixs glibertarian skin pops.
just go all the way mistermix.
link Yglesias.
Paul in KY
@Ash Can: I know, she doesn’t seem that old with her style of commenting & I certainly could be wrong here.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
you got banned for being an annoying stalker. being right once had nothing to do with it.
as it stands, you just came back even more annoying than before.
stinkfoot
This lemonade stand nonsense has been on the rise this year. So naturally I created a tumblr to document the atrocities. http://lemonadestandmeme.tumblr.com/
MattR
I love that Reason’s “rash of incidents” is an article from this year that lists two incidents as well as three other articles from the past 6 years. Sounds like a real epidemic to me.
Amir Khalid
@MattR:
It’s a very mild rash, I guess. One only a hypochondriac would even notice, let alone demand treatment for.
gwangung
@Amir Khalid: It’s not odd when you realize m_c is a racist bigot in denial, who doesn’t value observations from non-whites, even when (or maybe most especially) when those observations are about non-whites themselves.
Samara Morgan
@chopper: no i didnt.
i got banned for linking this post on mistermix’s Utoya thread.
On the same page is one of mistermix’s pageclicks-for-Kain mercy
fucklink posts, just like this one. Kain is about to get shitcanned from Forbes for lack of pageclicks and mistermix is farming the BJ commentariat for traffic for him.@gwangung: im not a racist unless “stupid” and “christian” are races now.
I might be a bigot.
:)
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: maftoon means charmed in arabic. im just being accurate.
Stillwater
@stinkfoot: Awesome.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
My question is, how does being infatuated with the West effectively differ from being charmed by it?
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
no. here is the thread. you didn’t link shit, you got banned for attacking mixie for posting news stories about the shootings and tried to make it another tired ‘you love EDK!! admit you’re an asshole for loving EDK!!’ bits. doug gave you a time out because you’re a douchebag with behavioural issues, not because you turned out later to be right about the ethnicity of the shooter.
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid: Somewhat bored on a languorous Malaysian Friday night?
Samara Morgan
@chopper: i linked this post.…and pointed out Kain is no different than Jennifer Rubin.
when you get blacklisted it disappears your last 2 or 3 comments.
Ax DougJ.
he gave me the timeout.
i dont know if mistermix loves EDK. i think mistermix is an asswhipe for trying to direct traffic to Kains Forbes blog while ignoring the epic glibertarian freemarket fuckery Kain posts at the LoOG.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: how does being infatuated with the West effectively differ from being charmed by it?
are you really sincere? i doubt it.
n/e ways…
infatuated implies an illogical, thoughtless intoxication. charmed means….i think you see the good things in western culture, and naively think Islam can be magically “reformed” to include them.
Samara Morgan
@chopper:
i was also RIGHT about EDK. hes a JAFI.
:)
Samara Morgan
@chopper: mistermix is trying to rehabilitate Kain, to legitimize him, by farming pageclicks for his Forbes blog and linking posts the juicers will mostly agree with.
i think mistermix should just go comment at Forbes and the LoOG.
im never going to stop linking the glibertarian crapology the LoOG churns out.
unless of course i get another “timeout”.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
so again, you got banned for being an insufferable douchebag.
oh, i forgot, you’ve been banned before. clearly, also because you posted a link to EDK, right? nothing to do with being a stalker freakshow?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: that is the thing about arabic…you can usually get the exact, precise word you want.
like theres 77 different words for different kinds of love.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
clearly, it’s a conspiracy.
Samara Morgan
@chopper: i got banned initially for saying that dead missionaries get what they ask for on the Evil Poor Black Muslim Somali Pirates kill Noble Rich White Christian American Missionaries thread.
Cole said that was appalling.
so he does understand what im sayin’.
:)
Samara Morgan
@chopper: well you explain it then. i can show links…at least twice a week mistermix links Kains Forbes blog. He NEVAH links the LoOG because you guys might see things like this.
and like i said, Forbes is gettin’ ready to shitcan Kain for lack of traffic.
I dunno, but that seems to me like an abuse of front page privs….mebbe i should ax Cole.
:)
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
Why, that’s absolutely correct! However did you guess?
And now, back to my Friday night’s entertainment…
@Samara Morgan:
I wonder if you’re aware that during its Golden Age, Islam had a great deal of influence on Europe’s culture and intellectual development. Indeed, Europe would likely not have had a Renaissance without exposure to what was then the most advanced, and progressive, culture on their side of the Eurasian landmass.
So no, I don’t see what’s good in Western culture as necessarily opposed to Islamic culture, or even different from it. In fact, I wish Islam had maintained its Golden Age progressiveness. This would have been a different and better world had it done so.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Great. But do you understand why it was appalling?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: so i think you dont understand al-Islam. One of my shayyks says al-Islam is a process.
and this is what i say.
wa yuzhira bihi sirrahu ilayhi
do you understand apotheosis and creative ambiguity?
@Amir Khalid: i understand why Cole and the BJ commentariat think its appalling…..but isnt it my free speech right to say it?
and i dont think its appalling.
its the truth.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
maybe, just maybe, mixie likes some of EDK’s posts and links to them accordingly? i know, sounds implausible compared to an unproven conspiracy theory that they’re in cohoots to bring up kain’s pageviews.
then again, maybe i’m part of the conspiracy. kain pays me to argue with you to distract everyone from the truth.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
since when do free speech rights apply to someone’s blog? is cole the us government?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: And i wonder if you are aware that Imam Ghazali postulated many worlds theory 400 years before the christians tried to burn Galileo?
or aware that Ibn Arabi’s Time and Cosmology parallels Sean Carroll’s From Eternity to Here in its core elements?
Samara Morgan
@chopper: nah, i think you are just stupid.
:)
Samara Morgan
@chopper: well, that is why i got banned.
i think missionariism is evil and missionaries get what they deserve if they are killed while proselytizing.
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
yes, since i don’t see the conspiracy where there clearly isn’t one. are the freemasons involved? they usually are.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
I’m not quite sure what it is you’re trying to say in comment #91. There’s supposed to be an argument in there that’s germane to what we’re discussing, right?
You don’t agree that what you said about the Christian missionaries was appalling, so you must not understand why it is: Nobody deserves to be murdered. Got that? Not even for being a murderer. Certainly not for being a missionary, even though you may hate missionaries with the burning fury of a thousandty billion suns going all kablooey-supernova.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Edit time ran out before I could add:
What was appalling was that you spoke approvingly of acts of murder.
stinkfoot
@Stillwater: Thanks!
chopper
maybe it goes deeper. i emailed cole about the conspiracy and he quickly replied “Mistermix is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”
keestadoll
This post has truly inspired me to take action. I’m FIRED UP!!!! GLOVES ARE OFF AND IT’S TIME TO CONFRONT DA MAN!
I think I’ll start by opening a lemonade stand in front of our local police station.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: sure people deserve to be murdered.
George Bush deserves to be murdered, for example.
if one is willing to die for Jeebus, well, knock yourself out.
if one is willing to die for Allah, go for that too.
they all deserve EXACTLY what they asked for……martyrdom.
bi la kayfah
Samara Morgan
@chopper:
im sure that is true.
hes also giving Kain mercy links at Forbes so he doesnt get shitcanned for lack of traffic. He is kind and wunnerful to glibertarians also.
idc.
do what you like, it doesnt make any difference.
Bury your heart at Wounded Knee or bury your uterus at Waco, its all the same.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: Irony, sarcasm, and snark just fly right past you, don’t they? As do nuance and subtlety.
@Samara Morgan: So you are saying that you are in favor of murder? That alone says an awful lot about you.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: im in favor of murdering George Bush. Or Hitler. Or Mussolini or Stalin or Pol Pot or Idi Amin Dada or Ayatollah Khomeni or Richard Speck or Jeffery Dahmer.
so?
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: I will just suggest that you figure out the difference between kill and murder. If you do that and still stick with your choice of phrasing, well, then….
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: you dumbass.
there is no difference.
George Donnelly
Where is the post where I can find out all the great substantive issues you are making progress on, so I can learn from you? This lemonade thing is so sideshow, so give me some main course. Please provide links.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: Ah, but there is, and if you were as intelligent as you think you are you would have figured out that someone wouldn’t just make a suggestion like that for no reason. Then you would have done a little research and avoided embarrassing yourself further. I am going to go watch the Packer game now; feel free to wallow in your ignorance.
Gravenstone
@chopper:
/applause
Bravo, Sir, simply bravo!
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
jesus, you’re a buffoon. fuckin’ well-known movie references, how do they work?
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
or christian missionaries! ♫ one of these things is not like the other…♫
El Cid
@Samara Morgan: Whether it was Iraq or Sweden or the Abbasid caliphates, how on Earth does the number of people signing a petition help determine the centralized power of the bureaucratic nation-state?
For example, if in Somalia 90% of the population were to sign some petition for any subject whatsoever, would this mean that Somalia currently possessed a coherent nation-state?
Second, the existence of a centralized nation-state does not in itself suggest anything positive; North Korea is an extremely centralized nation-state, yet it’s not commonly quoted as a more desirable alternative to mixed degrees of chaos.
I think you have things you want to say, and you’re just waiting for a chance to say them, and then when you see things which vaguely remind you of the things you wanted to say anyway, you go ahead and stick them there, because what’s important is that you wanted to say something, and if it’s irrelevant to what someone else has said, or if you don’t grasp what it would mean to be relevant or irrelevant, well, that just means that that other person is prejudiced against you.
Samara Morgan
@chopper: again, i did not say i was “in favor of murdering xian missionaries”. i SAID if they get dead then they get what they deserve. those who seek martrydom often find it.
@El Cid: YOU SAID “the pathetic Iraqi non-state” .
They seem to be functioning to me, and i read a lot on iraq.
For example, people vote, they have multiple parties that are all uniting right now in their common fervent desire to see America GTFO.
how are they not a state and why are they “pathetic’?
because they are rudely showing America the door instead of expressing proper gratitude for America’s invasion, occupation, and slaughter of their citizens and destruction of their infrastructure?
Samara Morgan
@chopper: what does my loathing for Proselytizers have to with mistermix sneakily directing pageclicks to Forbes to help Kain keep his paid gig?
nothing.
Samara Morgan
wallah…..could it be because you link glibertarians like Kain?
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Let’s see if I understand this: you don’t think that people should actively set out to murder Christian missionaries. But it’s okay with you if Christian missionaries get murdered in the course of missionarying, because they deserve it — presumably for being missionaries, whom you hate.
Yes, I can definitely see you considering that a morally acceptable position.
You seem to be missing the distinction between willingness to die for a cause, and intent to die for a cause. The former is acceptance of the risk of (for example) military service. The latter is what leads to suicide bombers.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: The types of distinctions you are drawing are something that she is either unable or unwilling to comprehend.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: The child fails at reading comprehension? Unpossible!! Just ask her!
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: Child? My guess is that she is not much younger than you are.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: A) How old do you think I am? :)
B) Her physical age is not why I label her a child. Her emotional age suggests she thinks in an immature and juvenile fashion. The label is proper, in my estimation. YMMV.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
But a lot less grown-up than Yutsano.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano:A) Mid-30s. B) Is callous asshole an age?
@Amir Khalid: But of course.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Now you’re just making me blush.
And I’m just over eight years younger than you. Which no one tomorrow at the meet-up will believe.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: You are 39? You write much younger. Of course, one is only young once, but one can be immature forever.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Well I will be in almost exactly two months. I’ve always gotten along with younger people though.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: Age, in many ways, is really just a number. Yes, there are some physical changes, but they can be ameliorated. Mentally, though, you are as old as your mind is. I think I have stayed young. Also, someone, perhaps Oscar Wilde (easy to attribute things to him), said that by 50 every man has the face he deserves.
sailor
http://reason.com/issues/july-2011
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid:
that is a false difference. i do not see any difference between xian missionaries and suicide bombers.
they are both willing to die to make a point.
you must also consider the selection gradient. its stupid to proselytize in shariah law states, in majority muslim nations.
Because proselytizing can be punishable by death in muslim states.
S overeign nations have DIFFERENT LAWS than America.
that is the whole point of this discussion.
The Noble Quran mandates a proportionate response to proselytizers– YOU do not get to decide what the Quran means by that, just like YOU dont get to decide if shariah law is compatible with free speech.
Samara Morgan
America doesnt get to make the laws for the world.
not any more.
El Cid
@Samara Morgan:
Why would you think — irrespective of the facts — that criticizing the weak nature of the centralized Iraqi state would express opposition to Iraqi efforts (at the party or popular level) to expel US forces?
Do you even understand what you say? Do you even ask yourself if some statement even contradicts the thing you want to say?
Again, I could be entirely in favor of Iraq expelling US forces (and other civilian similar forces), or entirely in opposition to such moves.
And either perspective would be unrelated to evaluations of the centralized capacity of the Iraqi nation state.
I don’t think you’ll understand that point. But you won’t care anyway, because you already have the thing you want to say.
Samara Morgan
@El Cid: you did not answer my questions.
why is Iraq a “non-state” and why is Iraq “pathetic”?
Samara Morgan
@El Cid: Iraq is already leaning towards an alliance with Iran. But the Iraqi government needs to expell America because Iran is America’s sworn enemy, because of Operation Ajax, Israel, the Shah, etc.
Qom and Karbala will become one, in the new virtual shi’ia caliphate.
Muqtada is plotting to become the new Sistani– he just spent 3 years studying in Iran, exactly like Sayyid Ali al Sistani did.
is it that you just dont understand the ground game here?
Samara Morgan
@sailor: Reason should be called Unreason– the magazine for first culture glibertarian spin.
El Cid
@Samara Morgan: Not a single one of those words had anything to do with what I said.
Not one of those statements had anything to do with the ability of a central state to function throughout its territory.
You do this every single fucking time. You always hallucinate that someone simply must be supporting American / Western / Christian policy or whatever against your outline of what is happening.
Why?
Because you didn’t say it. If you didn’t say something, then, clearly, it’s by someone who supports a US presence in Iraq and who hates the Muslim world and so on and so forth.
That’s why when I’m interested in what’s going on in NA/ME/SA/Pac regarding the Muslim world, I read directly from a variety of local and regional sources, Muslim and otherwise. Not you.
But then, because the preceding paragraph was not written by you, clearly it means that I am a pro-imperialist dupe who doesn’t understand that blah blah blah.