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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Fables Of The Reconstruction / Again with the Zombie Lies…

Again with the Zombie Lies…

by Dennis G.|  February 16, 201111:47 pm| 103 Comments

This post is in: Fables Of The Reconstruction, Open Threads, Assholes, Good News For Conservatives, Our Failed Media Experiment

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The thing about the modern so called Conservative movement is that it has become nothing but a bunch of fables that float freely in a sea of lies. Nobody even tries to connect the things they say to facts or reality. It is just an endless series of word strings carefully tested by the Luntzs of the world to sound like serious talking points.

These folks embellish these structured fables with anything that pops into their heads and then pretend every embellishment gives the fable deeper meaning. Inside the Beltway, folks treat this endless stream of bullshit as serious. And around the Country about 30-40% of the populace have come to believe this gibberish as the “truth”. Such is the beauty of repetition.

These word strings have become a portfolio of Zombie Lies that pervert our Democracy and do real and lasting harm to our Nation. And yet, they have gained currency and even adoption by folks who should know better. More and more you must wade through a thicket of Zombie Lies just to make it possible to have a serious conversation about any policy, problem or opportunity facing America.

Everyday, there are dozens of these Zombie Lies that might outrage you, but the one that caught my attention tonight is the old “Abortion is just like Slavery” lie with its corollary lies that “Forced Birthers are just like Abolitionists” and that “Slaves were just like fetuses or zygots”.

Last month it was Rick Santorum fluffing this lie–a lie taken apart piece by piece over at TNC’s place. And then demolished in detail by scatx over at the Speaker’s Corner.

This month it is Mike Huckabee, (taking a break from his campaign to lock up the Pro-Ethnic Cleansing Vote) who pimps these Abortion=Slavery Zombie Lies to push State ownership of every uterus while erasing women and people of color from their humanity. In Huck’s world a zygote is the only entity to be recognized as human–women are reduced to baby ovens and slaves are helpless as zygotes with their real history and humanity erased.

In his retelling of this old Zombie Lie, Huckabee embellished it with made up shit. Perhaps it was an effort on his part to avoid any discussion of the white supremacy at the root of slavery in America that inspired Huck to magically turned Michigan into a slave owning State :

“It was wrong to own a slave in Mississippi and Michigan,” Huckabee said. “This is not a states issue.”

In Huckabee’s latest iteration of this Zombie Lie, Michigan has been made into a Slave State and his invented story of slavery in Michigan is presented as the equal to the story of slavery in Mississippi. Of course in reality slavery was never legal in Michigan. It was always a Free State, but facts don’t matter when you’re retelling a Zombie Lie. A few more repetitions and 40% of Americans will believe that slaves work the great plantations along the shores of Lake Michigan. And while Michigan–like every State–has some real problems with racism and some shadows in its history, slavery is not one of them. And yet to help sell his brand of White Male Exceptionalism, Huckabee had to slander Michigan with the stain of slavery. As one born and bred in Detroit it pissed me off a little bit, but so it goes.

Rinse. Repeat.

The morning will bring a new day with fresh retellings of the Zombie Lies embellished with even more bullshit and more fact free word strings that Beltway potentates will some pronounce as “serious”.

I guess all of this means it is time for an Open Thread…

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Reader Interactions

103Comments

  1. 1.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 16, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    The Zombie is NEAR!

  2. 2.

    Scott

    February 16, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    Seems like Huck was stating that slavery was wrong in the non-slavery states like Michigan and wrong in the slavery states (Miss.).

  3. 3.

    Svensker

    February 16, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    It was always a Free State, but facts don’t matter when your you’re retelling a Zombie Lie.

    You fix. Pet peeve.

    Great post. But how do you feel about rape?

    Seriously, Mike Huckabee is for ethnic cleansing but abortion is like slavery? Hard to say anything except WTF. Or maybe, too bad about all the borned people. Feh.

  4. 4.

    redshirt

    February 17, 2011 at 12:00 am

    To play Devil’s Advocate for a moment: Why blame the liars when there’s not only no consequences for lying, but actual gains.

    To lie is succeed, and to tell the truth is to fail. That’s the America we live in today, and yes! Are actively pushing out into the wider world.

  5. 5.

    Violet

    February 17, 2011 at 12:04 am

    I haven’t read Sully much recently in the past few months, but I skimmed his blog yesterday and noticed that there were a series of posts about how people were finally calling out Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. for the negative effect their shows have on public discourse and the public good. I’ve seen a series of posts and admissions that Fox “News” lies on purpose, as well.

    I’m not holding my breath that this means things will change dramatically, but I thought it was at least a hopeful sign. Perhaps the tide is turning a bit? Perhaps people are getting sick of being lied to? And are willing to call a lie a lie?

  6. 6.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:05 am

    @redshirt: I blame the liars for lying and the media for pushing their stupid zombie lies. There is enough blame to go around. Jackasses. All of them.

  7. 7.

    kdaug

    February 17, 2011 at 12:10 am

    So is this just fucking “Game Over”?

    Discuss.

  8. 8.

    Tattoosydney

    February 17, 2011 at 12:10 am

    @Svensker:

    You fix. Pet peeve.

    I don’t want to pile on and detract from what is a really great post, but:

    endless series of word strings carefully tested by the Luntz’s of the world

    does not have a possessive noun in it which requires an apostrophe.

    Hence “Luntzes” or perhaps even “Luntzs”, but not “Luntz’s”.

  9. 9.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    February 17, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Let me denounce Stalin and broccoli.

    And especially broccoli Stalintine. A popular pre-confederate delicacy.

    Okay that second paragraph was a lie; how’d I do?

  10. 10.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 17, 2011 at 12:13 am

    @Tattoosydney: I would go with Luntzeses, like nasty hobbitses. I think it works.

    ETA: I refuse to denounce broccoli. Stalin? Sure, I’ll denounce him.

  11. 11.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 12:13 am

    well, I’m for giving Huck the benefit of the doubt… perhaps he comes by this knowledge of slavery in Michigan not from the history books, but from personal involvement in procuring some for his own use…

  12. 12.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:14 am

    @Tattoosydney: Hi, hon. Good to see you. How you be?

    And, I denounce Stalin, but not broccoli.

  13. 13.

    Tattoosydney

    February 17, 2011 at 12:16 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I’m well, my dear. I have been trying to ignore the internets so I can actually be productive, but I am not necessarily succeeding well at either.

    How you? Is your mom still there?

  14. 14.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 17, 2011 at 12:16 am

    @asiangrrlMN: Great minds … and ours.

  15. 15.

    Suffern ACE

    February 17, 2011 at 12:17 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think those “S”‘s make a nice hiss that will play well to the people. Let’s run this by a focus group.

  16. 16.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 17, 2011 at 12:17 am

    Personally, I welcome our new broccoli overlords. Stalin, not so much.

  17. 17.

    aghast at stupidity

    February 17, 2011 at 12:19 am

    The morons are the ones that read these ludicrous diatribes. It is amazing how stupid some of you are. Huckabee is not a Conservative. Santorum is not a conservative. They may call themselves conservatives but they are far from it. It is only idiots like the people who have posted above who believe that a populist like Huckabee is a conservative. And the idea that Fox lies but that none of the others do is as ludicrous as the belief that the Religious Right are conservatives. Conservatives are individuals who want an adherence to the constitution, believe in low taxes, less entitlements, and a strong defense. I am a conservative and I do not care who fucks who, how many people they fuck, who they marry and least of all how many people abort their fetuses. It is the Religious Right who cares about that shit. If it were Republicans and Conservatives who cared about that then those laws would have been changed. Wake up America, we are in as much danger from the Religious Right as we are from the Irreligious Left, both which would take us down a road of State Control of our lives. Leave me the fuck alone, leave my money alone and keep your nose out of my business. If I want to smoke then let me smoke, if I want an abortion then let me get it. If I want to marry a man or a woman let me get married. Fuck marriage for everyone. The state should not allow any marriages, just civil contracts and let those who want to get married go to some religious or irreligious group and have some mumbo jumbo read out loud but that only civil contracts be recognized as legally binding cohabitation arrangements. All of you stay out of my life. That is a true American conservative. I do not want some self-righteous Liberal telling me how to live anymore than I want some self-righteous Religious nut telling me how to live.

  18. 18.

    Tattoosydney

    February 17, 2011 at 12:19 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Apparently I’m not allowed to reply to you. FYWPYFF.

  19. 19.

    General Stuck

    February 17, 2011 at 12:19 am

    White Zombie Party

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    February 17, 2011 at 12:19 am

    When a fetus writes a book as good as this one, then I’ll concede the “fetus = slave” claim. Better get some word processors shoved into some uteruses, Mikey! I’m sure they’ll get right on it.

  21. 21.

    Kllgg

    February 17, 2011 at 12:22 am

    Excellent premise for an article, since it’s more than clear that the right lies constantly. But it’s lost by including an example that isn’t an actual lie.

    I don’t think Huckabee was suggesting Michigan was ever a slave state. I read it as him purposely including a free state with a slave state to illustrate his point. Slavery was wrong both in states that banned it and states that allowed it.

    There’s plenty wrong with Huckabee’s comparison of slavery & abortion without having to read a lie into it when it doesn’t seem like there was one. He doesn’t have to be a liar to be wrong.

  22. 22.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 17, 2011 at 12:22 am

    @Tattoosydney:

    And yet to help sell his brand of White Male Exceptionalism, Huckabee had to slandered Michigan with the stain of slavery.

    Since we’re piling on, wrong tense on slander.

  23. 23.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:22 am

    @Tattoosydney: Mom’s still here. That should answer question number one. Good luck being productive. I’m massively sucking at it right now.

    @Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q): Snicker. You did great.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Something like that! Hey, you’re a lawyer, right? Can you practice in MN?

  24. 24.

    Violet

    February 17, 2011 at 12:23 am

    @Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q):
    It’s the broccoli mandate we soshulists are supposed to be denouncing, not broccoli itself. Stalin also too.

  25. 25.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 17, 2011 at 12:24 am

    @asiangrrlMN: Wisconsin and Ohio only.

  26. 26.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:26 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: So, if I’m going to hypothetically commit a crime and hypothetically ask you to be my lawyer, I have to do it in Wisconsin or Ohio? Damn.

    @Mnemosyne: Just–ouch.

  27. 27.

    Mnemosyne

    February 17, 2011 at 12:30 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    C’mon, an iPhone’s much smaller than the baby’s head will be when it’s coming out, so it won’t even be that uncomfortable.

    (I think this head cold has reached my brain.)

  28. 28.

    John B.

    February 17, 2011 at 12:31 am

    @Scott: I’ve gotta say, I agree with Scott. It seems pretty straightforward to conclude that he was contrasting a slave state, Mississippi, with a non-slave state, Michigan, in order to illustrate the point that slavery was morally wrong, regardless of the laws of the individual state.

  29. 29.

    Redshift

    February 17, 2011 at 12:32 am

    @Violet: Well, denouncing broccoli clearly implies opposition to the broccoli mandate, so I think we’ve got it covered.

    Oh, I forgot, these are libertarian demands we’re responding to. “Clearly implies” is nowhere near strong enough.

  30. 30.

    hitchhiker

    February 17, 2011 at 12:33 am

    Well maybe the Huckster’s right. It’s not a federal issue, or a state’s issue. It’s not an “issue” at all.

    Abortion is a medical procedure legal everywhere in the USA that women may freely choose when they find themselves unable or unwilling to carry a pregnancy to term, as long as certain conditions are met.

    Huck doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t get one, or get a woman pregnant who isn’t over the moon about bearing his spawn.

    What I can’t abide is the cheap grace aspect of the “choose life” peeps. They suffer nothing for their oh-so-virtuous position, but they seem to believe that simply holding that position makes them noble. Godly. Saintly. Just like the people who hid Jews from the Nazis!

    But really they’re more like people who watch a badly made television commercial and weep easy tears over invented nonsense.

  31. 31.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:33 am

    Everyone who can, everyone who has ever wanted to be on the frontlines, come to Wisconsin. I never thought we’d be the center like this, I never thought this state would be the frontline on anything, really, but here it is. Come to Wisconsin if at all possible and stand up against this neo-fascist governor. It is starting, here. The war on the middle class is heating up in a big way here, and here is the best place to stop it.

  32. 32.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:34 am

    @Mnemosyne: OK, now see, I don’t have an iPhone so I was picturing a full keyboard (plus, I use the Dvorak system, so I can’t type on a cell very well, anyway).

    @Little Boots: Where in Wisconsin are you?

  33. 33.

    KG

    February 17, 2011 at 12:35 am

    I kind of understand what the Zombie Lie is trying to say, but it is so incredibly stupid, especially since forcing a woman to take a pregnancy to term stinks much more of slavery.

    Also, I will happily denounce broccoli and Stalin

  34. 34.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:37 am

    Wisconsin is where worker rights started, and here apparently is where they want to kill it. Do not let them.

  35. 35.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:38 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    madison. This is heating up in a way I never actually imagined it would.

  36. 36.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:42 am

    this could get very ugly. I hope not, but I don’t see a peaceful happy end to this right now. We need help, a lot of it, from progressives.

  37. 37.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:43 am

    @Little Boots: Are there planned events? What do you plan on doing tomorrow?

    ETA: What do you see happening?

  38. 38.

    C.S.

    February 17, 2011 at 12:45 am

    Dennis, while you’re right on nearly everything in this post, I think you’re misreading Huckabee’s quote. Someone else pointed this out upthread, but I think it needs repeating. His point is that slavery was an absolute wrong, and the absoluteness of the wrong transcended state borders. Slavery was therefore wrong in both Michigan and Mississippi, although in one of those states it was legal. He’s using Michigan because of its illiterative value.

    So he’s saying that abortion is an absolute wrong, the absoluteness of which transcends boundaries, and the fact that its legal in one place or another doesn’t change the fact it is wrong. Now . . . this is a conclusion that I and other commenters here strongly disagree with, for the reasons you eloquently state. But it seems like a pretty clearly articulated conclusion and I don’t think it does you any favors to misread it so.

  39. 39.

    GregB

    February 17, 2011 at 12:45 am

    So is this the beginning of a Worker’s Party movement?

  40. 40.

    Mnemosyne

    February 17, 2011 at 12:45 am

    @KG:

    As other, wiser people than me have pointed out, forced birthers like Huckabee are trying to claim they’re just like the abolitionists without having to actually do any of the hard work.

  41. 41.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:46 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    there are demonstrations at the Capitol, pretty much every day and night for the next few days. I think this could turn into a strike, and then an attempt to fire all teachers, and then … I don’t know. But it could get ugly I’m guessing. Never really been through this kind of thing before, so I really don’t know, but this is rapidly turning into a real honest to god, old fashioned labor battle.

  42. 42.

    Comrade Luke

    February 17, 2011 at 12:46 am

    Because it needs to be said: TNC is fucking awesome. He deserves a bigger – and better – platform than The Atlantic. It’s almost insulting that he’s under the same umbrella as Sullivan and McMegan.

  43. 43.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 12:50 am

    @C.S.: OK. I can see where you and the others are getting that, but then it should read something like, “It was as wrong in Mississippi as it would have been in Michigan.” I read it the way dengre did until more than one person pointed out an alternative possibility. That’s just not good wording.

    @Little Boots: Well, shit. I do hope it’s peaceful, but I have to agree that it could turn ugly really quickly.

    @Comrade Luke: If this was Disqus, I would like this comment eleven-billionty times. He’s the only one I read over at The Atlantic.

  44. 44.

    WyldPirate

    February 17, 2011 at 12:51 am

    @Scott: @Scott:

    Seems like Huck was stating that slavery was wrong in the non-slavery states like Michigan and wrong in the slavery states (Miss.).

    And that Huck was drawing an analogy to demonstrate that he thought that both slavery and abortion were immoral.

    Not that Dennis G. would let a little detail like quoting someone in context stand in the way of spinning his favorite broken record, though.

    I especially like this very sharp observation….

    The thing about the modern so called Conservative movement is that it has become nothing but a bunch of fables that float freely in a sea of lies. Nobody even tries to connect the things they say to facts or reality.

    Little late to the party, aren’t we Dennis? This was pretty obvious back in the early 80s.

  45. 45.

    Suffern ACE

    February 17, 2011 at 12:52 am

    @Mnemosyne: Or risk any violence against them. Let us, while Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land, form a vigilante group to ensure that these dangerous ideas of theirs don’t rouse any rabble.

    The broccoli mandate does not go far enough. I will only support it if it also includes a provision that an eating supervisor is authorized to enter homes and inspect other eating habits. As for Stalin, he had some good ideas but just didn’t go far enough with them.

  46. 46.

    freelancer

    February 17, 2011 at 12:52 am

    The Abortion = Slavery argument is simply a case of these “pro-life” Christians trying to force the false narrative upon the rest of the world that they are on the right side of history.

    Just the same as when Christianists overstep their freedom and try to impose their ideology on the country, and there is justly a secular pushback, they feign butthurt and single themselves out as victims of “religious oppression”. They always say, without a doubt, “You’d never say this about Muslims! Cause Muslims would kill you for it.” That becomes a case of fatwa envy. They resent the idea that their ideology isn’t is as ingrained in the culture that heresy isn’t punished by violence or incarceration.

    The Abortion = Slavery gambit is nothing more than a case of John Brown envy. Only their “freedom fighters” get locked up because we live in a secular nation ruled by laws, not priests.

    I respect the opinion that an unborn child is a human being and should be regarded with the ethical gravity that begs of a new life with the almost infinite permutations and potentials that humans are upon entering this world. However, I regard the veto power on that potential life held by its living human mother and the rights she has as someone already here on this planet as even more sacrosanct and worth defending. No one cheers for abortions, but some women, some families find them necessary for their own reasons, and for that reason alone, government has no place or say in the matter. The older I get, the more I see the “pro-life” struggle as my own Private Schaivo. None of my fucking business, and it isn’t any of yours.

    Fuckabees.

  47. 47.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 12:54 am

    @Comrade Luke:

    He is, he is totally awesome, really, but so is everybody who puts themselves out there to stop this crap that is going on in this country everywhere. Seriously, people, we are all on the frontlines, and we all have to do something about it.

  48. 48.

    C.S.

    February 17, 2011 at 1:00 am

    @asiangrrlMN: “That’s just not good wording.”

    I disagree there as well. They were verbal remarks. The alliteration works best when the words “Michigan” and “Mississippi” are close together. Even in the truncated quote given in the story, the message would likely have been clearly conveyed through his tone, inflection, and manner. Huck is a lot of things, but one of them is a very, very good speaker who knows how to reach his audience. I’d trust his word choice over mine or yours any day of the week. And good lord, why the hell did y’all just make me spend two comments defending Mike-effin’-Huckabee?!? Pissed, I am.

  49. 49.

    Dennis G.

    February 17, 2011 at 1:03 am

    @C.S.:
    That could be one way to read his comment, my reading is another way. I think your reading is not in keeping with Huck’s framing of the issue in other statements, but I stand to be corrected. I will think about it.

    Still at his core Huck is a radical advocate of White male Exceptionalism sold with super-natural mumbo-jumbo. His is a pretty dangerous world view, IMHO.

    Cheers

  50. 50.

    Comrade Luke

    February 17, 2011 at 1:06 am

    @asiangrrlMN: Same here. I even cancelled my subscription to the magazine because of McMegan, and stopped following Fallows, but I still follow TNC and will follow him wherever he goes.

    It’s not just the topics, either. The quality of his writing is superb.

    ETA: I even like his substitute writers! As opposed to Conor f’ing Freidsdork

  51. 51.

    freelancer

    February 17, 2011 at 1:08 am

    @Dennis G.:

    Any other establishment GOP personality, and I would think this is pandering, but not Huckabee. His denial of Science ending at Gastric Banding notwithstanding, he’s a True Believer.

  52. 52.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 1:08 am

    @Comrade Luke: I know. He can make me tear up with his phrasing at times. As a writer, I am jealous at the beauty of his words, even when he is writing about very ugly things.

    ETA: Word on his substitutes. Selfishly, I really like the fact that he has two Asian American writers (one female!) in the mix.

  53. 53.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 1:16 am

    Important as abortion is, as a symbolic issue, and important as Huckabee is, as a symbolic leader, there is something more immediate: the attempt by real life Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin to destroy unions. Let him do that, let him destroy the only force that stands between him and Republican domination of the state, and we’re pretty much done. Stop him, and I think we stop a whole lot of crap in the future.

  54. 54.

    John B.

    February 17, 2011 at 1:24 am

    @Dennis G.: He frames it as a moral issue, and argues that morality transcends the laws of the state. In the course of making an argument like that, it is natural to contrast states with opposite legal statuses in order to emphasize his point.

    I’d expect, as C.S. points out, that the contrast was better delivered in speech rather than text. I also resent that I’ve spent two comments defending Huckabee.

  55. 55.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    February 17, 2011 at 1:24 am

    .
    .
    Today’s biggest zombie lie –

    “I definitely feel folks’ pain,” he said, mentioning the gripping stories recounted in the 10 letters a day that he reads from among the thousands received at the White House. “You want to help every single one individually.”

    .
    .

  56. 56.

    Spaghetti Lee

    February 17, 2011 at 1:26 am

    God, I wish I could get to Wisconsin. I’m rooting for all the protestors there.

  57. 57.

    Little Boots

    February 17, 2011 at 1:29 am

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    It’s gonna be … interesting.

  58. 58.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 17, 2011 at 1:30 am

    “Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie, and one to listen.”

  59. 59.

    efroh

    February 17, 2011 at 1:32 am

    Is there a biography of Luntz that’s more substantive than the one on Wikipedia? I met him once and he seemed more like an advertising geek than a spinner of evil. How the hell does someone grow up to be a modern-day Goebbels? (Yes, I went there.)

  60. 60.

    GregB

    February 17, 2011 at 1:32 am

    NH is having our own hubub tomorrow. The new GOP House is holding marriage repeal hearings despite the polling indicating that 65% in the state are against it.

  61. 61.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 17, 2011 at 1:35 am

    @GregB: Taking back the Union, one state at a time!

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 17, 2011 at 1:38 am

    @efroh:

    Frankly, Advertising is not that far from outright propaganda in its own right. Its purpose is to persuade you that you need something that you didn’t think you needed before. If it was simply there to inform you that a product was available to you, it wouldn’t need to imply that you’ve got a better chance of getting laid if you use it.

  63. 63.

    slag

    February 17, 2011 at 1:40 am

    @WyldPirate: It’s really too bad that whatever cave you crawl out of everyday gets internet service. Wouldn’t your time be better spent writing out your manifesto in cuneiform?

  64. 64.

    Joey Maloney

    February 17, 2011 at 1:44 am

    @kdaug: So is this just fucking “Game Over”?

    Yes.

    The next great democratic experiment will arise once people have figured out how to consume mass and narrowcast media without giving it a direct line to their backbrains.

    Though I don’t know; maybe that’s impossible. I remember studies from the 70s (when there was only broadcast television to threaten our youth and pollute their precious bodily fluids) that found the EEGs of tv watchers were similar to those in a light sleep, or under hypnosis.

  65. 65.

    JGabriel

    February 17, 2011 at 1:46 am

    Scott:

    Seems like Huck was stating that slavery was wrong in the non-slavery states like Michigan and wrong in the slavery states (Miss.).

    Gotta agree with Scott here, Dennis. It looks to me like Huckabee was saying that slavery was wrong wherever it was practiced, whether it was legally condoned (MS) or not (MI).

    Doesn’t make the comparison of abortion to slavery any less offensive, of course.

    .

  66. 66.

    GregB

    February 17, 2011 at 1:46 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Yep!

  67. 67.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 17, 2011 at 1:48 am

    @slag: heh. cuneiform.

  68. 68.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 17, 2011 at 1:49 am

    If Mike Huckabee is saying that slavery was wrong, then he’s pissing off a lot of knuckle draggers he’ll need to have any shot at the nomination.

    Because I’m not fully convinced that there aren’t some out there who do actually think slavery was wrong. Most of our Galtian overlords only pay lip service to that notion.

  69. 69.

    freelancer

    February 17, 2011 at 1:59 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    If Mike Huckabee is saying that slavery was wrong, then he’s pissing off a lot of knuckle draggers he’ll need to have any shot at the nomination.

    Wow, this is waaaaay too presumptive. A GOP candidate may throw out codewords and stealth shoutouts to the Confederate residue that still harbors a lot of hate, but no one loses votes for opposing literal slavery. Even self-identified conservatives will, even grudgingly, admit that slavery was bad. It’s like losing votes for winning World War 2. This is just a silly point.

  70. 70.

    Yutsano

    February 17, 2011 at 2:22 am

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel):

    cuneiform.

    Such a lost art these days…

    @asiangrrlMN: Something for you to giggle over mightily: the cold has pretty much snapped but now the Great Nasal Drainage has begun. This means I have a fairly constant supply of gunk dripping down the back of my throat. I used to be able to sing Safina’s “Luna” with little trouble. Now there are parts of Josh Turner songs that are too high for me. If this keeps up I’ll be Barry White by morning.

  71. 71.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 17, 2011 at 2:28 am

    Yutsano: Oh, I don’t know. If com-boxes were hand written instead of typed (the tech couldve gone that way if the Newton had been, uh, any good or anything people wanted at the time) you might not think it was so lost. If you could read my chicken scrawl. Which you couldn’t.

  72. 72.

    freelancer

    February 17, 2011 at 2:34 am

    @Yutsano:

    I wish you all the best with your ENT issues. Hopefully you will hit Geddy Lee, or maybe even, if FSM wishes, Claudio Sanchez levels of pitch and falsetto.

  73. 73.

    Yutsano

    February 17, 2011 at 2:34 am

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): As a high practictioner of the fine art of modern hieroglyphics, I’m right there with you on the sloppy handwriting deal. I shudder for anyone who has to attempt to interpret my chicken scratches.

  74. 74.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 17, 2011 at 2:35 am

    One of my music profs once told me that there was a low B flat that he did not know whether was being sung or not in Josquin DePrez’s Absalom Fili Mi until home stereo technology became good enough to resolve it.

    Maybe you can hit that B flat now. Seize the moment and join an ancient music group!

  75. 75.

    Yutsano

    February 17, 2011 at 2:39 am

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Nope. E. I just tried. But as that note is usually virtually impossible for me, it’s a pretty bizarre sensation to have bass notes coming out of my tenor mouth.

    And the condition is unfortunately temporal in nature. By this time next week I should be back to my normal squeak.

  76. 76.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 17, 2011 at 2:43 am

    @Yutsano: when I smoked low E was my low note in the afternoon. My other secret gtr tuning weapon. D, first thing in the morning.

  77. 77.

    Yutsano

    February 17, 2011 at 2:53 am

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Funny thing: smoking did nothing to my voice. It didn’t do much for me either, buzz wise or anything. I only started cause it pissed me off that that’s the only way to get a break in the restaurant industry. As soon as I was back to school, I quit and never looked back.

    (hint in all that for FH #1.)

  78. 78.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 17, 2011 at 3:02 am

    The glamorous, charismatic side of my family (which I resemble not in the least) all smoked. My grandparents even used cigarette holders like FDR. I was doomed.

    Folks used to tell me to try to get voice over work when I smoked but I think it’s gone up a major 2nd since I quit. Lacks that mellow croak.

  79. 79.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 3:05 am

    from the article at the HuffPo:

    “I thought we dealt with that 150 years ago when the issue of slavery was finally settled in this country, and we decided that it no longer was a political issue, it wasn’t an issue of geography, it was an issue of morality. That it was either right or it was immoral that one person could own another human being and have full control even to the point of life and death over that other human being.”
    __
    He said civilization cannot survive if “one group of people have life and death control over another for no particular reason other than their own conveniences and, in that case, prejudices.“

    If only they took that same stance wrt women and their bodies… Huck should take his own advice and take his hands and policies off women’s uteri.

    adding that someone should question his stance on women and children having control over their own bodies. and at what point the state or church should be able to determine when men can breed.

  80. 80.

    Jebediah

    February 17, 2011 at 3:16 am

    I know there is a lot of hub-bub, but why hasn’t anyone posted the recipe for Broccoli Stalintine? Isn’t anyone thinking of the children? WHY WON’T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!
    I need a new dish to bring to the next Evil Cabal of Evil Liberals meeting.

    And also – I really wish I could get to Wisconsin. Being broker than broke sucks.

  81. 81.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 3:18 am

    @efroh: How the hell does someone grow up to be a modern-day Goebbels?

    well, it helps that Goebbels learned his trade from American advertisers… Luntz is just completing “the circle of life”…

  82. 82.

    Jebediah

    February 17, 2011 at 3:32 am

    I see there are a couple of musicians in this thread. Any of you feel like trying to answer a dumb-ass question? Why does Sonic Youth’s “Incinerate” sound so beautiful? Is there something special about it, especially the lead guitar figure? If the answer is just “It sounds good to you cuz you like the way it sounds, dumb-ass” I can accept that.
    What I can’t accept is that my brain kept trying to call Thurston Moore “Strom Thurmond.” I may have suffered brain death without knowing it…

  83. 83.

    Yutsano

    February 17, 2011 at 4:10 am

    @Jebediah: You like what you like. There is no rationality or logic behind that. And no one should ever tell you what you HAVE to like. That is the beauty of the diversity of music.

  84. 84.

    Jebediah

    February 17, 2011 at 4:50 am

    @Yutsano:
    You’re right, of course. A long time ago an ex-girlfriend gave me some shit for calling band or other a “guilty pleasure” – and she was right, too. You like what you like.
    I do like listening to that fellow Strom Thurmond sing…

  85. 85.

    bob h

    February 17, 2011 at 6:09 am

    These word strings have become a portfolio of Zombie Lies that pervert our Democracy and do real and lasting harm to our Nation

    Setting off the unhinged and clinically sick like Gerald Loughner, as one example.

  86. 86.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 17, 2011 at 6:53 am

    …portfolio of Zombie Lies…

    This screams for tag-dom.

    And you are absolutely spot on with the “40%”. I have at least four, possibly as many as nine or ten in-laws who can be counted on to spout zombie bullshit at any given point in a day. When confronted with shotguns of truth that blow zombie heads clean off … they simply switch to another one.

    Reminds me not so much of zombies as it does of Cylons, the re-animated robots from Battlestar Galactica.

    The lasting damage of the portfolio of Zombie lies is that people at the individual level are no longer able to effectively communicate. Each of my beloved family members is efficiently and effectively isolated, like a do-it-yourself in-your-own-home cult membership.

    If I had sat back some decade past and gamed up some sort of civil war scenario that would push America to destroy itself, it would probably have to have some sort of mechanism with exactly these effects: imagine the zombie cultists taking up arms in greater and greater numbers (*cough*Arizona*cough*South Dakota*cough)

  87. 87.

    befuggled

    February 17, 2011 at 7:22 am

    @Jebediah: I typically reserve the “guilty pleasure” label for individual songs. For instance, Madonna’s “Lucky Star” and one or two of her other early songs are a guilty pleasure, but I do not otherwise care for Madonna.

  88. 88.

    Jebediah

    February 17, 2011 at 7:43 am

    @befuggled:
    Now that I think about it, it was songs, not the band’s whole body of work.

  89. 89.

    kdaug

    February 17, 2011 at 8:06 am

    @Jebediah:

    I do like listening to that fellow Strom Thurmond sing…

    Yeah, and John Ashcroft is quite the crooner, too.

    “Let the eagle soar…”

  90. 90.

    Hawes

    February 17, 2011 at 8:38 am

    I wonder if the Michigan reference was a dogwhistle to Dred Scott? Scott lived in Michigan territory and used that as the basis for his claim that he could not be re-enslaved upon his return South.

  91. 91.

    chopper

    February 17, 2011 at 9:06 am

    i love the twisted attempt to link abortion to slavery, not realizing that it’s the other way around. because a system where the Man owns the fetus inside you, such that you have to beg permission from him if you need to end the pregnancy, sure sounds like slavery to me.

  92. 92.

    jcgrim

    February 17, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Zombie lie # 48. The right-to-forced-birthers in TN are linking abortion to genocide. They plan to start a genocide awareness program in the state

  93. 93.

    Svensker

    February 17, 2011 at 9:27 am

    @sukabi:

    He said civilization cannot survive if “one group of people have life and death control over another for no particular reason other than their own conveniences and, in that case, prejudices.“

    Unless they’re Palestinian in which case, die, fuckers, die. Amirite, Mikey?

  94. 94.

    mds

    February 17, 2011 at 10:25 am

    @Svensker:

    Unless they’re Palestinian in which case, die, fuckers, die. Amirite, Mikey?

    Yup. Abortion is an absolute moral wrong, but Israel’s indiscriminate airstrikes against civilian populations that contain pregnant women apparently give Huckabee wood.

  95. 95.

    Dennis G.

    February 17, 2011 at 10:58 am

    @JGabriel:
    Sorry, but re-reading the Huck quote again that is not what he said. He was not comparing a slave state to a free state when he said: “It was wrong to own a slave in Mississippi and Michigan” he was equating them and making them equal is the past tense.

    If he was doing what you claim in the defense he would have said something like: “It would be wrong to own a slave in Mississippi or Michigan” or he could put it like “It is wrong to own a slave in Mississippi or Michigan”

    The use of the past tense “was” and the the word “and” instead of the word “or” makes me think my reading of what he said–in the context that he said it–is more accurate than your defense.

    Cheers

  96. 96.

    Scott

    February 17, 2011 at 11:10 am

    @Dennis G.:

    But of course, if he used present tense (e.g. “It’s wrong”), he is perfectly correct.

    Look, if anything is wrong, it’s your interpretation, he is just stating it’s not a States issue and that it’s a Federal issue.

    And if it some huge Zombie lie, what does Huck have to gain by making ignorant people think Michigan was a slave state?

    There is plenty to conservative stupidity to point out. Including comparing slavery to abortion. There is no need to split hairs or tenses.

  97. 97.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    @Scott: I read it like Dennis G… and without having the full text of his speech, or the full audio some of the context is missed… however, I’m not willing to give Huck the benefit of the doubt wrt this… he knows his base, knows that they’ll lap up any and all the bullshit he puts out there without question…

    The “gain” is in erasing the real history of slavery, which Huck and his ilk haven’t acknowledged and have been working tirelessly to rewrite into some fantasy of “helping the poor black folks”…

  98. 98.

    PWL

    February 17, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Two words: Josef Goebbels. That who they learned the trick from.

  99. 99.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    @PWL: Goebbels learned from US see link –>> @sukabi:

  100. 100.

    grillo

    February 17, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    @Jebediah:

    Broccoli Stalintine

    Ingredients
    # 1 1/2 pounds Broccoli.
    # 5 teaspoons salt.
    # 1 teaspoon sugar.
    # 3 tablespoons unsalted butter.
    # 3 eggs, lightly beaten.
    # 1-cup bread crumbs.

    Place the broccoli in a pot with salted cold water, cover and soak for 10 minutes. Drain, trim off the leaves, and break the broccoli into 2-to-3-inch florets. Bring 4 quarts of water to a boil in a large pot; add the salt & the sugar. Place broccoli in a basket and lower it into the water. Return to boil and simmer uncovered, over moderate heat for 10-15 minutes. Drain.

    Melt 1 tablespoons of butter in a large skillet. Dip the florets in the eggs, then in the bread crumbs, and saute for 2-3 minutes on each side, or until golden. Add more butter as needed.

    Serve immediately as a side dish with communism or socialism.

  101. 101.

    Jebediah

    February 17, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    @grillo:
    Thank you! and the evil cabal of hungry liberals thanks you.
    Maybe we will have Peaches Proletariat for dessert.

  102. 102.

    sukabi

    February 17, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    @grillo: Stalin murdered that broccoli with all the simmering and sauteing… if you’re going to torture it that much you might as well do this instead:

    1 head broccoli, cut into florets
    6-8 mediumish turnips, peeled and thinly sliced crosswise
    1 medium onion, thinly sliced in half-moons
    2 cups Béchamel sauce (recipe below)
    1/2 c gluten free bread/cracker crumbs
    Herbamare/salt and pepper

    Preheat oven to 400* F. Wash and prepare vegetables, saving broccoli stems for later use, and set aside.
    Prepare Béchamel sauce per directions below.

    Spread a thin layer of sauce on bottom of 7″x11″ glass pan. Place turnips in pan in long rows, layering each turnip slightly over the other, until pan is full. Tuck broccoli florets between rows and around the edges of pan. Finally, evenly spread thinly sliced onions over entire pan. Cover with tin foil, and bake for 20-30 minutes. Then remove foil, sprinkle on bread crumbs, salt, and pepper, and place bake in oven to bake until golden and bubbling, approximately 20 minutes.

    Remove from oven and let cool 10-20 minutes before serving.

    BÉCHAMEL SAUCE

    1/4 c + 2 Tbsp millet or brown rice flour
    3 T olive oil
    3 c water
    1 tsp garlic powder
    1/2 tsp ground mustard
    1/2-1 tsp Herbamare
    white or black pepper to taste
    1 Tbsp garbanzo bean miso (or soy, if tolerated)

    Heat oil in a saucepan over medium-low heat. In a small bowl, mix flour, garlic powder, and ground mustard, then sprinkle over oil. Stir to mix evenly, and toast flour until it smells nutty.
    Add water in steady stream, whisking constantly to avoid clumping. Bring heat up to medium high, and bring to a scald while stirring constantly. Then reduce heat to low and let simmer briefly until thickened.
    Remove a small amount of the sauce and mix with miso paste, then add back into pot, with additional salt and pepper to taste. Remove from heat.

  103. 103.

    grillo

    February 18, 2011 at 8:51 am

    @sukabi: Trotskyite! The central committee will never approve that decadent bourgeois preparation for the five year meal plan.

    Seriously, in order to come up with Broccoli Stalintine, I began with a traditional Russian recipe, and then hacked it to incorporate broccoli. I am not, myself, Russian, but my research suggests that all traditional Russian recipes involve some kind of vegetable torture. So there’s not much to work with.

    Given that, I stand firmly behind my official, party approved Broccoli Stalintine, and humbly suggest that you actually try cooking it before you berate it.

    From each according to his produce, to each according to his appetites. Just sayin’.

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