Via TPM, Axios, the landing pad for Politico rejects, transcribed Ivanka Trump’s latest women’s empowerment scheme:
I’m sure this is fine. It’s not like a fund that leverages political connections at the highest levels to buttonhole the rich and powerful worldwide would be seen as problematic during a political campaign — much less when operated from the White House by the president’s daughter, business partner and official adviser.
Crispy Cajun-fried Jeebus, I sure hope Hillary Clinton has a well-developed capacity for ironic amusement.
Major Major Major Major
I have a CNN alert telling me that the White House “is weighing whether to pull out of NAFTA in the coming days“, emphasis added. How’s that for a 100-day stunt.
Jerzy Russian
Someone tell me this is fake news. Anyone?
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Are we going back to the mercantile economy of East India Company, now? Since imports are bad, exports are good as are tariffs.
aimai
I try not to think about breakfast at the Clintons house. I can not imagine what it is like to have been so close to being able to be President and to have to see the country being hacked from inside like a caterpillar being eaten from the inside out by predatory wasps. Or a ship being sunk by pirates who boarded it, killed the crew, and drilled holes in its side to sink it.
Wapiti
So some massive fund that the Trumps will disburse money from for good causes. :snort:
David Fahrenthold of the Washington Post will stay employed, anyway.
hovercraft
I hate the village, I think as much as I hate the people who elected this nest of vipers. My bad, they are one and the same.
tobie
@schrodingers_cat: There’s a Politico article to the same effect. Well, if tRump wants to make a big impact, withdrawing the US from NAFTA will have a big impact. A titanic like impact, The economy will crash.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: Pshaw, we don’t need no East Indians in this country. //
@tobie: Can he do that unilaterally?
MomSense
I’m at the hospital at my mom’s follow up appointment and all the tvs are noticeably not tuned to anything dolt 45.
Did I hear something about an EO to allow mining at public monuments and national parks? Was it a nightmare?
rikyrah
Pete Souza’s book will be out November 7, 2017!!
Yes!!!!!
rikyrah
This is nothing but a phucking slush fund. Period.
Chris
@aimai:
One of the commenters at LGM pointed out soon after the election that this entire election was tragically familiar to far too many women in professional positions: no matter how hard you work and how qualified you are, you’re always in danger of being given the boot in favor of a person who can’t find a coherent sentence with both hands and a flashlight, so long as that person is a white male.
Corner Stone
Just once, just one time, I want HRC to tweet out – “W.T.F.”
Corner Stone
@MomSense: Yes, and yes. It is a nightmare and he did sign an EO selling public lands to the most well placed energy companies.
Once they get a drill on these lands it’s all fucking over. If not forever then for multiple generations at least. Visit while you can, if you can. I’m still planning to visit UT this summer. Hope I make it.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: I wonder if the people in Utah who love their parks will be surprised that the leopards are eating their faces.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah:
It is the ultimate slush fund. “Hey there Country X. We’re sure you would be interested in donating to the Accomplice Trump Fund for Complicit Empowerfulment. I mean, you are, aren’t you?”
TenguPhule
@Jerzy Russian: Sorry. Its not the Onion.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
I forsee ELF getting a lot more active in that case. Whether or not they change from terrorists to freedom fighters in the public opinion is anyone’s guess.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Combined with possible military action against North Korea. Its almost as if Trump is shorting the markets and trying to get them to crash on time.
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: I think I’ve posted this before, but here’s one of my favorite photos from Grand Staircase/Escalante. Glad I went there when I did.
rikyrah
THIS is who they are.
THE PHUCK OUTTA HERE….
Being led by a completely unqualified woman who had no qualifications for the job..
A Rule is a Rule?
You evil muthaphuckas make me SICK!!
But, we’re supposed to find common ground with them…right?
You want to take a guess as to the composition of the students that benefit from Upward Bound?
Yeah.
Uh huh
Uh huh
FUCK YOU, MAYO NATION.
For every student that will be hurt because of this?
FUCK YOU.
…………………….
Dozens of Colleges’ Upward Bound Applications Are Denied for Failing to Dot Every I
‘It’s more about format than it is about content’
By Goldie Blumenstyk
APRIL 26, 2017
For the want of double spacing in a small section of a 65-page grant application, 109 low-income high-school students will be cut off from a program at Wittenberg University that has been providing them with tutoring and counseling to prepare them for college. And they’re not alone. Over the past few weeks at least 40 colleges and organizations with similar Upward Bound programs have also had their grant applications summarily rejected by the U.S. Department of Education for running afoul of rules on mandatory double-spacing rules, use of the wrong font, or other minor technical glitches.
The affected colleges, whose programs serve at least 2,400 low-income students, and the members of Congress who represent them are furious, especially because their appeals to the department for reconsideration have so far been met with little sympathy or indication of any sort of resolution.
The program director for Upward Bound at Wittenberg, Eddie L. Chambers, said he did have a conversation with Linda Byrd-Johnson, acting deputy assistant secretary for higher-education programs. It was “gracious,” said Mr. Chambers, who has overseen the Wittenberg program for 40 of its 50 years. “But in the end, she told me, ‘A rule is a rule.’ She told me, ‘Eddie, I too have to abide by the rules.’”
Wittenberg’s error, according to the March 22 letter it received from Ms. Byrd-Johnson: In its section on its budget, it apparently violated the double-spacing rule requiring “no more than three lines per vertical inch,” including text in charts and tables.
“It’s more about format than it is about content,” Mr. Chambers said in an interview this week, just a few days after he informed the students that the program was imperiled. Funding for the Wittenberg program runs out May 31. The college, which was seeking $2.5 million for five years, is exploring other options and hopes to keep alive at least its bridge program this summer, for 10 high-school seniors who are slated to live on campus and take college-level courses in a supportive environment.
David Spikes
Colbert last night on 20% lumber tariff-First time anyone has rejected Trudeau’s wood.-nice.
Anent Ivanka’s slush fund-I bet Uday and Qusay’s wives are hard at work on their business plans right now.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: Well, this administration couldn’t coordinate their way out of a wet paper sack if the sack was on fire, so even if they were trying that, which they aren’t, they would fail.
Ian
The Trump foundation was clearly more corrupt than the Clinton foundation. The media barely reported on it because they never thought he would win and burnish their chops as investigative heros in the HRC presidency. Now that the chickens have come home to roost we are suppose to sympathize with these hacks? The only are I wish Ill douche success in is destroying his ‘media enemies’
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Strictly speaking, it’s leasing the lands for oil and gas exploration, and the lands in question are federal lands close to parks and monuments. The rule until now has been to restrict development near the parks and monuments to avoid risk of pollution and otherwise spoiling the nearby lands. The new EO changes the rules to allow oil and gas leases much closer to the parks and monuments. It’s bad enough, but please don’t exaggerate what they’re actually doing; it’s not as if they’re going to start drilling in the middle of Yosemite Valley or anything.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: But if they’re trying to fail and fail at that, what then?
hovercraft
@David Spikes:
Wasn’t there a story a couple of weeks ago about one of them getting some kind of government gig? The gisggallop comes so fast and furious, shit slips by, and it’s hard to tell what’s satire.
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
@#10…so looking forward to it! Have the big coffee table book with the photographs of Robert McNeely from part of the Clinton years (1992-1998)…all black and white. Had it out the other day looking back through it.?
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
Stop fooling yourself. It’s much worse than what I am suggesting. Who will enforce boundaries? Who will oversee where they can and can’t “do exploration”? I am sure you are familiar with logging industry practice of applying for a permit, clearcutting the area and then fighting paying the fine when they were caught.
This is going to be devastating.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Except that each chip is another step down the path leading to exactly that.
And that’s before remembering that they could do just that. Possession is 9/10s of the law.
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s a fantastic place, and really ought to be getting upgraded to a National Park rather than being disestablished or shrunk. I have so many great photos from Grand Staircase/Escalante it’s hard for me to pick a favorite. For today, though, I think I’ll go with this one or this one.
Mnemosyne
I love how all of the people who whined about how much they hated the “Clinton Dynasty” just ghosted away after the election and have no problem with Trump installing his completely unqualified family as top advisers.
You guys wanted anything but a “Clinton Dynasty,” and you got it. Congratulations, and good luck escaping responsibility for your words. We have the receipts.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: The odds that they’ll fail in the same direction as the reverse of how they’re trying to fail are very very small.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic:
Gorgeous picture. My day there in March was one of my favorite days on that trip. Been thinking about Bears Ears a lot this week too…such a beautiful area and nice people. Really loved my week in Bluff, Utah.
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: I have something similar.
Villago Delenda Est
The vile scum that are the Villagers of course don’t see a problem with Ivanka’s grift, but boy howdy, was Hillary ever wrong to have the last name Clinton, ever.
Wipe them out. All of them.
Villago Delenda Est
@rikyrah: The DeVos bitch (and every member of her family) can not die too painful a death, too soon.
opiejeanne
@Ian:
I was unaware that the Clinton Foundation was in any way corrupt. Please explain.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
But the situation with logging is very different from oil and gas exploration. Once timber is cut and removed, the work is done and the government is left trying to impose fines. An oil or gas well requires years of pumping to pay back the expense of drilling, during which time the company that drilled it requires continuous access to get their product out. That gives the government a lot more leverage against them if the get caught violating the terms of their lease.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: They haven’t entirely disappeared. This week there’s been a relentless drumbeat insisting that Chelsea must declare that she’ll NEVER seek elected office. Added to that the hand-wringing about Obama’s speaking gig, it’s just a constant chorus of nonsense. Even Dave Wiegel is saying Obama shouldn’t make these speeches for money. Ugh.
The criticism of HRC et al gets louder every time the Current Resident seems to be in trouble, almost as if it’s intended as a distraction.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
And have you seen how Trump’s not only killing the budget of the Depts responsible for enforcement, but who he’s put in charge of them? Corner Stone is right, they’ll go ahead and basically dare someone to do something about it, because there won’t be anyone who can actually stop them legally.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
Yes, quite mysterious, that. I’m sure it’s just another of those strange coincidences that just happen to pop up. Certainly not evidence of a vast right-wing conspiracy, because our MSM is much too savvy to get caught up in those kinds of political machinations.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: About the same odds as the Millennium Falcon surviving a run through an asteroid belt?
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: Sure, it was an imprecise analogy to indicate my contention that companies involved will do whatever they feel like doing with the understanding that no one is going to stop them or make them pay for it. Even if we are able to change administrations in 2020 it may be too late for some of these locations. My thought is that once the process starts it is too late.
TenguPhule
@Villago Delenda Est: But think of the children!
/sarcasm?
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
Where was that taken? Mine is from an interesting location called Yellow Rock off Cottonwood Canyon Road; it’s noteworthy because of the unusual coloration in the normally bland Navajo sandstone.
Corner Stone
@opiejeanne:
They not only insist she declare, they DEMAND she state that declaration. And when she does they say that’s not good enough. Write it in blood. Ok, that’s also not good enough. Sacrifice your first born to prove you will never run. Still don’t believe you. Shave your head, put on this hair shirt and otherwise march naked through town center whipping yourself for your sins all while ringing this bell and yelling at the top of your lungs you will NEVER RUN.
Fuck you, you lying Clinton! Still not good enough!!
Felonius Monk
@opiejeanne:
But there was hardly a murmur about this
To quote the esteemed efgoldman: “Fuckem”.
Eljai
I think Ivanka cares about women in the same way that Paul Ryan cares about poor people. Interesting how she’s silent as a mouse as her old man openly plans to take a hatchet to structures that actually help women like the micro-loan program at the Small Business Admin, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the ACA, and Planned Parenthood. Maybe the person that Ivanka needs to empower the most is herself. Unless that happens, she’s no help to anyone.
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: Best I can recall, that was a fairly nondescript area off Hwy 12, between the Calf Creek trailhead and Boulder.
Gravenstone
@Roger Moore:
By all means, let them do exactly that. Maybe releasing the caldera will be just what we need to reboot as a species.
Corner Stone
@Felonius Monk:
He’s old so I am sure he’s pretty wrinkled at this point. But I doubt he would enjoy a good iron steaming and press.
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
So basically somewhere along The Hogsback, then.
TenguPhule
@Eljai:
No. She’s loathsome and needs to serve as a lesson for equal opportunity prosecution and punishment. No lighter sentence then her brothers. She needs to face the same penalty the rest of her family does.
Roger Moore
@Gravenstone:
That would be Yellowstone, not Yosemite.
Gravenstone
@Roger Moore: *sigh* Y- here, Y- there. I’ll just show myself out.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone: I’m open to a Clinton tax.
Any journalist who mentions Clinton that doesn’t use any actual facts and is not relevant to the actual topic will be taxed a pint of their blood (donated to the Blood bank, unless they fail to qualify, in which case they can feed needy mosquitoes in the Everglades) each time they do so.
Bex
@Corner Stone: Spot on description of the Clinton Rules…now applied to Chelsea.
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
It’s hard for me to articulate just how pissed off I am at the purity whiners right now. I’m sure I’ll come up with something later, but right now inarticulate shrieks of “rusty pitchforks” and “you assholes are why we lose” are careening around my brain.
El Caganer
@rikyrah: Unfortunately the Feds (in pretty much all departments) are sticklers for this stuff. I hated sending proposals to them because of this; I had one rejected because the bottom margin wasn’t exactly one inch and another because I didn’t use 12-point Times New Roman. I’d rather write a dozen proposals to private foundations than one to the Feds. If I were still working, I’d be pushing the hell out of my congress-critter to set up all their grant RFP’s with an online application format.
Eljai
@TenguPhule: No disagreement there.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
I hope history treats Pete Souza and David Kennerly (who blazed the trail) with high regard for how they opened the White House to the public in a meaningful way while capturing history.
Pete Souza keeps the conversation going, too.
dogwood
@opiejeanne:
It is a “constant chorus of nonsense.” I just don’t feel compelled to defend the Clintons or the Obamas for that matter. Chelsea has every right to be active politically on Twitter, and while she has never struck me as particularly interesting, she is a smart woman. Did she really expect journalists to treat her respectfully? And as for as the Obama speaking fees goes, he ain’t dumb. He knows he will get shit for it, and he obviously doesn’t care, so why should I? In the world of celebrity politics, sports and entertainment “money for nothing” is par for the course.
Felonius Monk
@Mnemosyne:
You are not the only one with this affliction.
hovercraft
@opiejeanne:
These fucking assholes must turn over all their credit card information to the former first family, so that if they want to spend two weeks in Micro or Polynesia they will pay for it, they can pay the rent on that mansion they are renting in DC, and any and all travel, first class only, and any duds that Michelle or the girls want to buy. Oh and Harvard, Malia is starting there in the Fall, they can pay for that too.
Who the fuck do these people think they are? He’s not yours, he never was, he gets to do what ever the fuck he wants to do. The only person who gets to tell him he can’t do something is Michelle, everyone else back the hell off. He’s earned the right to accept money from whomever he wants.
He aid his dues, he worked as a community organizer, going to places that most of these precious snowflakes would never go, he put up with half the country treating him like the houseboy for eight years, now if people want to throw money at him, let them. The man know who he is, accepting money is not going to change his mind.
BruceFromOhio
Pay into the fund, get to hobnob with the cheatin’ cheeto and his trophies? Doesn’t sound like a problem, sounds like punishment. And self-inflicted at that.
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
Serious question: why wouldn’t they treat her respectfully? What has she done to make them treat her so disrespectfully?
She’s not Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian. There’s no Chelsea Clinton sex tape. So why do they treat her even worse than either of them?
dogwood
@Mnemosyne:
She’s a Clinton. Her life is a testament to being hounded by a disrespectful press and electorate. Twitter is a magnet for all kinds of crap, but she wants to be in the spotlight so she gets some abuse. That’s just not high on my list of things that outrage me.
catclub
Yeah, the reporter not mentioning the Clinton Global Initiative is par for the course.
It sure sounds like Ivanka is describing just that. except with no grants poor people.
glory b
@Mnemosyne: No, they’re out there yelling at Chelsea Clinton if she makes a comment on Twitter or tries to write a childrens book.
Matt Yglesias and Josh Barro have made it their life’s work to hound her out of public life.
gvg
Anybody who doesn’t realize the Trumps will spend this “foundation” money is an idiot or trying to bribe the president. I think all donors if there are any, need to be investigated. I suspect they will all be Russian and Chinese. I hope it causes a bunch of investigations.
Its interesting to me that the Trumps seem incapable of learning how to operate politically. They never seem to expect pushback even when it’s obvious to anyone paying a little attention, that certain things will happen.
TenguPhule
@gvg:
Dude, he literally stole his political donors contributions to his campaign and nothing happened.
The Trumps need to suffer severe punishment to get the point across that there are consequences for being evil and stupid. So far, that hasn’t happened.
Villago Delenda Est
@glory b: Which is why both of them have relatively low tumbrel manifest numbers. Not as low as Mrs. Greenspan or Chuckles the Toddler, but pretty low.
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
Well, good to know that you think people should be harassed and tormented based on the circumstances of their birth. All she had to do to avoid having journalists harass her was not be born to Bill and Hillary Clinton, so it’s all her own fault.
Mnemosyne
@glory b:
Well, it’s her own fault for being born a Clinton. Didn’t you get the memo?
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne: She should have been smart and been born a Trump, or a Bush. Instant immunity from Villager hounding.
opiejeanne
@dogwood: well. All righty then.
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
Pete has a A-level trolling game :)
opiejeanne
@Villago Delenda Est: Yeah. DUH! ?
dogwood
@Mnemosyne:
Bullshit. I don’t think anyone should be harassed and you know I didn’t say that because you are a smart woman.
opiejeanne
@dogwood: If you didn’t mean that you certainly expressed whatever you did mean very poorly.
Corner Stone
@opiejeanne: Yeah, I wasn’t sure what to make of that either.
Thru the Looking Glass...
Ahhhhh… that sweet, sweet grift… better than mother’s milk, as addicting as pure smack…
Can you imagine the howls of indignation if Michelle Obama had done something like this when she was in the WH?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@opiejeanne:
Almost?
Kay
Oh, there’s no conflicts there! The President’s daughter wants to run a foundation out of the White House while serving as some kind of unelected representative of the United States. She’ll collect money from entities and dole it out as she sees fit – no one will know if this is “Ivanka Trump” or “the United States”.
The Trumps are an ethical train wreck. The absolutely incredible sense of privilege this requires is just breath-taking.
They recognize no limits whatsoever. They do whatever they fuck they want, whenever they want.
Just another day watching the US collapse into some kind of lawless kleptocracy.
I heard her opining on women’s roles earlier. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t we still have ELECTED women in the United States who could weigh in? Why has she been elevated to this ridiculous, unearned status?
Here’s the best part. She can never get fired. No one even dares criticize this bullshit because they risk offending the unhinged commander in chief.
I hope ordinary women and girls don’t kid themselves that The Ivanka Trump Rules apply to them. That’s a lie. They’ll have to earn anything they get. This fairy tale applies only to a very special set of very special people.
I was looking at photographs of Ivanka with the IMF leader and Merkel and I guess I’m supposed to be thrilled that Ivanka has appropriated this power? I’m embarrassed. It’s not fair to all the women in government who earn it. It does them a real disservice. What a shallow, stupid country we’ve become where this is not only accepted but admired.
Please don’t hold her up as a role model for young women. They’ll have to work. Don’t lie to them.
dogwood
@opiejeanne:
I have no problem with people who are outraged by the double standard that applies to the Clinton’s or the Obamas. I simply think they are smart grownups who can take care of themselves, so I choose to let them do it. I’ve lived through outrage over presidential speaking fees since Reagan, and nothing ever comes of it. it is what it is, and the reactions are predictable. For me there is so much anxiety about what is happening here and in the world, I just can’t let myself get outraged by everything. We all have to pick our battles if we want to stay sane.
Kay
I’m not sure it’s fine. In fact, I don’t agree with Ivanka Trump that it’s my job to recognize what a fabulous and ethical person she is and give her a pass on her doing whatever the fuck she wants in my name.
I don’t know her. I don’t have to trust her. I have no idea what she’ll do with the money she collects. I do know she won’t reveal anything without a court order, because she and her family believe rules don’t apply to them.
I’ll wait until I see some documents, thanks. I’ll expect her to follow US law and any applicable conflicts and ethics rules. I’d bet 50 dollars she won’t bother, so put me down as a “no” on the Ivanka Trump Self-Promotion Slush Fund.
hovercraft
@dogwood:
So is she supposed to give up social media, and not write a children’s book? I get that by going on social media she is opening herself up to criticism just like the rest of us, but how is that “wanting the spotlight”? Every time Meghan McCain opens up her ignorant mouth, is she accosted by journalists demanding she renounce any future plans to run for office, what about the Bush twins, are they allowed to appear in public without renouncing any and all future plans to run for office?
Yeesh, Clinton Rules are really fucked up. Last time I checked this was a blog where people came to air their views and bitch about shit that was bothering them.
When any person goes on social media we all know they are opening themselves up to trolls, but a private citizen should be able to go online and not be attacked by so-called professional journalists demanding that she declare her intentions. Her mother lost, presumably having been raised the way she was, she has opinions about the state of the country and the world, she’s allowed to express them if she wants, without having to justify herself to the media.
Kay
@opiejeanne:
I admire a lot about Obama and I don’t think he should do the speeches either. It’s not fair because of course all the rest of them do it and have been doing it for years but I feel like it’s gross and out of control and he just happened to come along after that happened.
I was hoping there would be some other check on it- a decision by these companies to and entities to stop shoveling money at speakers but since that hasn’t happened someone has to hit the brakes.
It’s not fair but it would be the right thing to do. He’s a private citizen so of course he can do it but if he asked me? I’d say “please don’t- it’s out of control and insane and ordinary people don’t understand it or approve of it”.
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
You said it was no big deal that Chelsea Clinton is being harassed by journalists in a way that no other politician’s offspring is. I didn’t see any journalists telling George P Bush he had no business running for office, but they sure raced to screech at Chelsea Clinton when she isn’t even running.
A huge part of the reason we lost in November is because people couldn’t be arsed to defend our candidate from moronic right-wing-fueled attacks, and now the moronic attacks are being directed at her NON-POLITICIAN daughter, and I’m fucking sick of it.
Do we defend our side against unfair attacks or not?
Monala
@rikyrah: OMG. I have written government grants, and I can tell you that while abiding by a double-space rule is doable in the narrative, in the budget section –which is where this program “violated” the rule–it’s a lot harder, because the format is in tables. Sometimes they provide you with a table that doesn’t have enough space to include the information they are requiring you to include, so you have to fudge with something –spacing, margins, font size.
Corner Stone
@Kay:
I was embarrassed and outraged. It was like another direct insult to women all over the world that this nothing person, who has accomplished nothing, is forced on them against their will. Trump may as well had sent Andrew Dice Clay to this meeting. The level of insult would be about the same.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
THIS.
Kay
@opiejeanne:
I’ll give you a local example. We had a long tradition where local public employees would “double dip”. They would retire with a pension and sit out some statutory period and then be re-hired. They were sometimes great employees! They can come back! They can work if they want! There’s an argument that they earned the pension payments so the whole “double dip” is deceptive since this is money they earned and that’s pretty persuasive to me. Still. It bothered people. They didn’t understand it and it kept happening and ALL public employees were being painted with this broad brush so a FEW of them spoke out and said maybe this wasn’t such a great idea.
It’s not “fair”, right? But it’s real. They dealt with the reality of the perception which was damaging ALL of them. They knew it discredited them and someone had to go first. Maybe it doesn’t have to be Obama who goes first, but someone has to.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Unfortunately, Kay, that barn door was flung open long ago, and telling Democrats that they have to pretend the horses are still there and not take the money while the Mercers and the Kochs are throwing money in truckloads at the right wing is a really, really dumb thing to do. Pre-emptive disarmament has never worked in the history of the world.
eemom
@Corner Stone: @Kay:
Did y’all notice the expression on Merkel’s face as she looks at Twitvanka in those photos? It’s priceless. The essence of “holy fuck, am I really fucking hearing this??”
Kay
@Corner Stone:
i read that Merkel is a good politician so it was not a “forced” situation- instead Merkel saw it as a way to reach Trump but all that does is make me wish I had Merkel.
You see what I mean? I don’t want to be the country with the daughter who offers some leverage advantage to another country.
I want to be the country who leverages the dumb country who promoted the daughter. She’s a liability to me.
I want to be the savvy country, not the dumbos who send the daughter so Merkel can run rings around her and her father.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
Someone has to start putting limits in. These amounts of money are unimaginable to most people. It drives a wedge between them and their representatives.
This is how the limits come. You know what started the “double dipping” debate here? A county court judge who is a double dipper bought a Mercedes. That’s a hugely ostentatious car for this area. He became the poster boy for double dipping. He ruined it for all of them. People saw that car and it took on this kind of huge symbolism. Again, it’s not fair. The great 1st grade teacher who is bored in retirement and wants to get her pension and a new paycheck paid for his Mercedes because people lumped them all together.
ruemara
@dogwood: You’re not a woman or person of color, are you?
ruemara
@Kay: And I’d say the same thing that black twitter is saying in response. He’s not yours, and he has a right to make his money. Really try to put yourself in our shoes as this discussion of disappointment and appearances comes up.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
So was the retired judge going out and making paid speeches to the state’s bar associations, or was he still hearing cases? There’s a difference between going back to your old job and getting paid twice, and taking a new job that dovetails with your old one.
I disagree with you that people who are retired can never have another job. That makes no sense. My dad sold his business and retired, so he shouldn’t have been allowed to enter real estate partnerships once he was officially retired?
opiejeanne
@dogwood: Did you miss the part where I pointed out the pattern? That this is a planned distraction?
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Also, too, there is (or should be) a difference between a government employee who has a pension taking a second government job, and a government employee who has a pension taking a private sector job. If the people in your county don’t like retired teachers taking a job at Wal-Mart while collecting a pension, then they need to increase the pension payments so that second job isn’t necessary.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
Well, that’s nice because I never said anything remotely like that. I said they absolutely can take another job. What they can’t seem to do is explain double dipping in a way that the public accepts. They figured that out so some of them said they should voluntarily stop doing it. Not all of them! Not in a fair and equitable way! Some of them. They took a voluntary hit to retain credibility and trust as public employees. They know that has value and that was more valuable to them than taking the pension payments along with the salary. They get the pension! It’s theirs. They just don’t get it until they actually retire.
It doesn’t have to be Obama but someone, some time, has to hit the brakes on buckraking after office.
dogwood
@Kay:
These speaking fees are evidence of how out of touch corporate America and the global corporate entities actually are. They throw millions of dollars at these speakers and get nothing “real” in return. Bragging rights about their “A” list lineups? It’s a strange culture.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
As you know, when it comes to “appearances,” people of color are always, always held to a higher standard. And there does seem to be a weird thing with the Clintons where the media does consider them to be honorary POC and treats them using that standard and not the Bush or Trump standard.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: yeah, double dipping is a disingenuous argument exploited by people who know better in order to enrage the people who don’t know better.
And may I say for the record that I am sick of the optics argument.
The guy they say shouldn’t get paid just happens to be black. How’s that for bad optics.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I’m not understanding your definition of “double-dipping.” My understanding is that it’s taking a job at the same place you get your pension from, thus getting paid twice from the same job.
Obama is no longer president. He’s retired. He has now taken a new job in the private sector as a public speaker, while getting a pension from his previous government job. What makes that “double dipping,” other than someone with a government pension having a new private sector job?
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
No, this is only a public job after retirement. They work it so they can take the pension payments along with the new public salary. They “retire”, take 3 months off, and then accept the new job. It happens a lot in schools because the timing works- they “retire” at the end of the term and then get re-hired after the 90 days of summer. There’s nothing really wrong with it. They are people who went thru a hiring process and they followed the statute and they contributed to the pension as essentially deferred compensation- pay.
It just enraged people. They felt it was some kind of wink wink thing where someone was getting away with something. It hurt the whole “class” of public employees.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Yes, that’s a problem, and I understand why it enraged people. What I don’t understand is how it applies to Obama launching a private sector career as a public speaker after being president.
If people are conflating private sector and public sector employment, then that conflation is the problem.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
Double dipping for that judge worked like this. He was a prosecutor for 20 years. Then he was elected judge. He was eligible to retire at full pension because he had the requisite # of years. He did that. He “retired”. Now he’s collecting a pension. Then he ran again as judge. Now he’s collecting the highest salary a judge can make plus his pension.
It woulda been okay had he not bought that huge Mercedes and parked it in front of the courthouse in the special “judge” slot :)
I know it doesn’t technically make sense. There are fully loaded pickups that cost as much as a Mercedes. But you never know what is the tipping point, and that was it.
ruemara
@Kay: The what should retired statesmen do? Their skills are in oration, policy and exhortation. Should that be done for free? They tend to have foundations. Should those be organized and supported strictly from their earnings during employ? Should they be supported by donations, with all the negative BS that can be spun from it? Should they avoid the wealthy entirely, as that too has optics? I know you’re not saying sit in sackcloth & ashes, but it is a level of it. Is he to go be a lawyer? Then should he submit possible legal partnerships for review to make sure it meets standards? Unless Obama suddenly becomes mouthpiece to a dictator, then I’m not seeing the problem with him making his coins. He has an entire family to support and his foundation is focused (unlike most progressive orgs) on voting issues. We’re not getting much help on the ground on that. At some point, “optics” needs to be seen as a method of control on a person as people speak for groups that often, they aren’t a part of. Like the much vaunted WWC the DNC is chasing would think a damned good thing about him unless he personally handed over his fortune and committed hari-kiri in front of them for the temerity to be black and excellent. And yes, I do include much of the loudest liberal voices on this issue as desiring this. We have a race problem on this side of the aisle too.
Brachiator
It is outrageous that Obama is getting $40,000 for a speech. I will do the speech for $37,500.
MCA1
@Kay: “Why has she been elevated to this ridiculous, unearned status?”
Simple – her father, who’s functionally illiterate and/or off the charts ADHD, needs someone in the family to read things for him and relay the gist of it to him. She’s his personal reader.
It’s all so f’ing humiliating. To put her on stage with Christine Lagarde and Angela Merkel is pathetic. It’s an insult to the two of them, like selecting Adam Sandler to sit on a panel with actual, accomplished golf pros because he played Happy Gilmore. We’ve turned in our prestige card.
If not for winning the lineage lottery, Ivanka would be pushing condos near LaGuardia, and her brothers would be failed night club owners selling Caddies at the dealership their father used to be at before he was imprisoned for a pyramid scheme involving hair tonics. Not one of them would succeed in a traditional professional setting.
Kay
@ruemara:
All I’m talking about are speaking fees. Obama has a book advance. I think he’s a talented writer and his book might be great just on the merits unlike a lot of politician’s books. I’m thrilled he got a big advance. I don’t think he has to donate anything to anyone, ever. He did his public service and he did great work. But the speaking fees thing is out of control and someone has to call a time out.
I didn’t like Clinton’s speaking fees either. I thought it was horrible politics that she took them.
I would like it if public universities would be the first to start racheting it down. Maybe they could lead on it by insisting on low rates or just taking a pass on speakers for a while until there’s some kind of market correction.
trollhattan
Having received their dreamed of unlimited supply of gasoline and matches, Trump’s arsonists happily get to work.
So many moving parts I can’t hope to keep up.
Kay
@MCA1:
I wish I wasn’t such a bitter feminist but I saw that photo and all I thought was that if those two older women leaders ran in the US we’d be treated to 24 months of how haggard and “tired” they appear. They don’t (although Merkel often looks exhausted- me too!) but that’s the code for “old lady”.
We’re so shallow and gross and I say that as quite a shallow person!
If I think it’s shallow it’s pretty bad :)
dogwood
@opiejeanne:
I didn’t miss your point at all. Re-reading my post, I see where the problem might lie. I said: It is a “constant chorus of nonsense.” I meant that in agreement, but should have made that more clear by saying “I agree that . . .” It is all nonsense, daily and hourly. It’s hard to predict sometimes what kernel of nonsense will trigger outrage. I’m just trying my best to stay as focused as possible on what Congress and the WH are doing each day and let as much of the nonsense go as is humanly possible.
catclub
@Brachiator:
1. it is reported as $400k, not $40k.
2. If you gave the speech, they would not be able to sell an extra 1000 tickets to the event at $500 each. $500×1000= $500k
or 500 at $1000 per. whatever. If Obama gives the speech, they will. He is worth the money.
Felonius Monk
Hey, folks, it is called “kayfabe” and you can read all about it here.
Kay
@MCA1:
My daughter is in her 20’s and she hates this too so it’s been very empowering for us, ranting about it on the phone. I’m curating her opinions.
I hate these people.
Citizen Alan
@Kay:
I was concerned about Hillary’s speaking fees … until I learned that she was being paid roughly the same amount for speaking engagements as Larry the Cable Guy, at which point I stopped giving a shit. And the idea that Obama, whose career in elected politics is over, should forego a lucrative source of income just people want to hold him to a higher standard than Republicans (who would laugh at the suggestion that they not take speaking fees after leaving office) is patently offensive.
glory b
@Kay: Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
I know it’s not you, but it seems like people say that unless Dems are perfect, unimpeachable paragons of virtue, well OF COURSE no one will vote with us and OF COURSE they will be happy to follow whatever low life the Republicans cough up. Or stay home. Let’s go for the voters that are already on our side, but who need help to get over the obstacles the Republicans put in their way. Don’t you think they thought of this outcome?
Why? Can we all stop being hall monitors? Just say yeah, but we have a better track record and will continue to be the same in the future, and if you don’t like it, we’ll have to move on without you.
(Thinking of the buzzfeed article where Perez says he’s okay with getting booed by BS supporters. Can Dems maintain a shred of dignity?)
ruemara
@Kay: Book advances don’t come in advance of the book. You have a lot of steps before you get a check. And Clinton taking pay for speeches had literally zero to do with what her future was. I doubt she was thinking, “I can’t do what every notable person before me has done. I may run for President in 15 years!”. This is an issue to people who think earning a lot of money is a sign of corruption. It isn’t. It’s a sign that you can earn a lot of money. Actual corruption is a sign of corruption. Market correction? We’re not going to see eye to eye on this. All I can say is, it’s horrible optics and appearances to have a set of standards for the black guy & the woman – loudly – yet, it was mere grumbling at the others doing it.
Brachiator
@catclub:
You haven’t heard me speak. ;)
Whether it’s $40,000 or $400,000, this faux concern over Obama is nonsense.
Equally nonsensical is any criticism here of Chelsea Clinton.
Kay
So here’s the thing Ivanka has chosen to ignore. We pointed to Michelle Obama as an example for girls because she had an ordinary background. That’s the point we’re making. You can’t make the point without the ordinary background.
It’s like the ONE THING “ordinary background” people get- they get credit for rising. To just say “oh, that doesn’t matter” is to miss the point and diminish what they accomplished.
Ivanka gets everything else. She can’t have the “overcame obstacles” too.
dogwood
@glory b:
And Bernie’s really ok with Perez getting booed by his supporters so it’s a win-win.
Kay
@ruemara:
I pretty consistently say there’s too much money sloshing around and in politics. Just too much. I went after George W Bush for taking a huge speaking fee from the “rip off for profit colleges association”. Ideally they should distribute his fee to the students they stole it from.
Kay
@dogwood:
I supported Perez, I thought he was great at labor and in the voting rights section, but I have no fucking idea what he’s trying to accomplish with Bernie Sanders. None. This looks like a disaster.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
And people in the private sector do similar things all the time. When my dad retired, it was with the understanding and expectation that he would still be available to his old company as a consultant. Some people who used to work for my current employer are in the same position.
It makes perfect sense, too; those people have lifetimes of experience that can be vital to their old companies even after their formal retirement. That’s even more true for somebody who had a really unique job like an ex-President. I don’t want Obama forced away from the public sphere when he has so much he can teach us. If it’s lucrative for him to share that knowledge, bully for him.
Felonius Monk
@Kay:
Kay, I love you dearly, but I think you are entirely wrong about this. Number 1, it’s a free market. If he is marketable as a speaker for big bucks, then so be it. 2) For all the reprehensible shit he had to contend with for the past 8 years, he ought to be charging double. and 3)There is nothing unethical or illegal about what he’s doing, so it really should not be of concern to anyone.
As I pointed out above (#48), nobody was overly critical when it was noted in 2011 that Dubya had clocked over $15 million in speaking fees. I’m happy that Obama is getting close to 10 times what Bush was getting.
dogwood
@Kay:
Perez is trying to do his job. Bernie is campaigning for 2020.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I have no issue with 44 and Forever FLOTUS getting paid.
Not one issue.
Robin G in NY
@Mnemosyne: I’m adding my “AMEN!” to that.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I support Perez, and he better be collecting receipts.
glory b
@Mnemosyne: Agreed.
glory b
@dogwood: That’s my bitter laugh you hear.
I think there’s a level of racism and sexism on our side that’s becoming obvious. I keep hearing/reading that the BS supporters insist that unless we all agree that Hillary was the WORST CANDIDATE EVER and unless we ACKNOWLEDGE OUR MISTAKE IN VOTING FOR HER, and allow them to take over from here, they will never make common cause with us again,
I’m getting okay with that.
glory b
@rikyrah: Funny how when it’s the women and the people of color doing it, it’s become verboten.
We have to be always beyond reproach, and even when we are, it’s still not good enough.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And you’re not going to solve it by making Democrats disarm unilaterally.
We want good people to soak up all that extra money, because otherwise it goes to people like bush and trump
Brachiator
@Kay:
I admire Michelle Obama because she is an extremely intelligent attorney, and was a fabulous First Lady. Valerie Jarrett is a member of the black elite. The accomplishments of these remarkable women matter more to me than whether their backgrounds were “ordinary” or “privileged.”
Similarly, my problem with Ivanka Trump is not her wealthy background, but that she comes from and is deeply enmeshed with a family of bigots, thieves and scoundrels.
dogwood
@Kay:
We don’t elected or even nominate the same type of candidate over and over, but there are some “types” that reappear consistently. Candidates lives often tell stories about the country that are familiar and reassuring. Wealthy elites like JFK and HW Bush were WWII heroes which made them seem more like one of us. Tough street fighters like LBJ and Nixon tell a story about the country that we recognize, as does rising through talent and smarts like Clinton and Obama. Even W. has a story of the screw-up son who quits drinking and finds Jesus. The Trump family story represents everything that is sick and wrong in this country. Racism, mysogny, corruption, deception, ignorance and incompetence. That a significant minority of people find Trumpism laudatory makes me heartsick. I hate these people too.
catclub
@Brachiator:
I fully agree, I was showing that Obama is worth every penny.
So was Babe Ruth. Unique talents are unique.
I also like the line Ruth gave when asked how he felt having a higher salary than the President. “I had a better year.”
El Caganer
@Kay: This baffles me, too. I have no particular problem with Sanders, but he isn’t a Democrat and isn’t about to become one – why would anybody think they could use him to recruit Democratic voters?
Roger Moore
@Kay:
From the description, it sounds as if part of the problem is that people are allowed to retire, come back, and keep their seniority. The logical response would be to treat retirees coming back to the same position as if they were new hires. That wouldn’t necessarily mean treating them as complete rookies, but they wouldn’t automatically get back all the other perks they would have from their long service. So teachers wouldn’t get tenure, judges would be lowest on the totem pole for assignments, and everyone would be the first on the chopping block if there were layoffs. It would at least provide people with a real incentive to stick with their jobs and seniority rather than trying to collect a pension and a salary.
Of course another thing would be to change the way pensions vest. The reason people are tempted to double dip is because longer service doesn’t boost their pension, so being fully vested is effectively a massive cut to their compensation. Changing the rules so the vesting time is closer to a full-length career would help a lot. Of course this is also a potential advantage of defined contribution retirement plans: there’s no magic point when their value suddenly changes.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Sure, but it’s not the responsibility of the employee or contractor to say they’re being offered too much money. It’s the responsibility of the person doing the hiring to set the amount. Many high-paid speakers do reduce or waive their speaking fees for nonprofits. IIRC, the writer Neil Gaiman usually agrees to speak at public libraries for free.
But if for-profit corporations want to pay insane speaking fees, let ’em. That’s their decision.
Mnemosyne
@glory b:
I actually do understand why people go after Democrats on this kind of stuff. For all of the whinging from both right and left about how “corrupt” the Democrats are, everyone knows that that’s not actually true, and if you voice a complaint to the national Democratic Party or a Democratic politician, there’s a good chance that they will address the complaint. Republicans will just blow you off and insist that you like it.
There’s a double standard on these things for a reason.
MCA1
@Kay: Agree. I had a long convo back in December or so with a Trumpster who was convinced it won’t be that bad and D.C. needed a shakeup and career politicians this and institutions will reign in his worst impulses that. He tried to end the discussion by saying, basically, a year from now I bet you have a different opinion on this.
My response was that I wouldn’t because, even before the inauguration, the damage had already been done. We elevated tackiness, mediocrity, incuriousness, lack of gravitas, proud ignorance and unjustified entitlement to the highest office in the land. This shabby, corrupt, vile so-called human being, lacking any humility, empathy, or grace, was our chosen banner carrier for the world. Among the other signals we sent the entire globe last November, was that we’ve decided to just straight up walk away from our position as a world leader. We spent decades grooming a reputation as the beacon of justice and fairness and pissed it away in an instant. American exceptionalism my arse.
Kay
@glory b:
No this isn’t a comparison. I’m not comparing. Politicians should stop taking giant speaking fees because it looks bad.
I care less about what Republicans do because I’m not a Republican. Obama is one of the most popular and admired people in the world. He doesn’t have to give a speech to Cantor Fitzgerald. I don’t think he’s done working yet, either. He’s young. He’ll be doing something else. What Obama has is worth more than 400,000 dollars. Way more. He has credibility. So few people do anymore. It’s fucking priceless. Enormously valuable.
Kay
@glory b:
I literally never vote for Republicans so it matters less and less to me what they do as far as my own standards.
I live in a heavily GOP area so I had voted for the least-worst Republican in local races but I don’t do that anymore. I stopped around 2010 because they were cowardly with the Tea Party. They told me privately they were not in agreement with the Tea Party behavior but they were too scared to stand up to them. I’m not adding to their vote totals in that scenario.
Their standards are irrelevant to me as a voter or member of their political Party.
eemom
I personally have been utterly disgusted today by the media whores clucking over Obama’s speaking fee, and cordially invite them all to go fuck themselves. Um, hello? We have a CURRENT “president” and his vile family making millions off the presidency WHILE IN OFFICE? Where’s the fucking gazillion daily articles about THAT??
And on a calmer note — with due and true respect, Kay, I disagree with you about this.
David Spikes
Why yes, I’m really disappointed in Obama. He should have asked for a million.
The craphounds who organize these festivals overwhelmingly support the repubs so if Dems. can pull some of that cash loose, go for it.