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You are here: Home / Politics / An Unexamined Scandal / Further Russiagate Open Thread: A Caution from Kindly Uncle Ben…

Further Russiagate Open Thread: A Caution from Kindly Uncle Ben…

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a/k/a Benjamin Wittes, at LawFare:


.

That being said…

Reader Interactions

125Comments

  1. 1.

    burnspbesq

    Ben is right, of course.

    If the leak originated within DOJ, the leaker should be the next person indicted.

  4. 4.

    Mary G

    Wittes has shot his baby cannon a couple of times today, which can mean something’s about to break.

  6. 6.

    randy khan

    @burnspbesq:

    I can think of another group of people who might have been briefed – House and Senate Intelligence Committee members and staff. Supposedly there’s some coordination between the committees and Mueller, although sometimes it’s hard to tell if that’s really happening.

  7. 7.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Something else that happened today is that Dana Boente resigned.

    Dana Boente, the U.S. attorney from Virginia who gained national prominence when he took a temporary leading role in President Trump’s Justice Department, has submitted his resignation.

    He plans to serve until a successor is confirmed.

    “I will be around for a while and hope to visit with all of you to discuss how much the office and our work means to each of us,” Boente wrote in a letter to the lawyers he oversees in the Eastern District of Virginia. “I have so much respect for you and the work you do every day.”

    Boente, a 33-year veteran of the Justice Department, was tapped earlier this year to serve as acting attorney general after Sally Yates was fired. He went on to serve as acting deputy attorney general.

    He is serving as acting assistant attorney general of the National Security Division and will remain in that post until John C. Demers, an attorney for Boeing who worked at the Justice Department under President George W. Bush, is confirmed.

    Twitter is alive with rumors that he was forced out. Another story that we will have to wait to hear more.

  11. 11.

    opiejeanne

    OT: whoever booked that singer for the 7th inning God Bless America should be fired.
    Gawd, that was BAD!

  14. 14.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    “Mueller facing new Republican pressure to resign in Russia probe”

    I’m sure this will happen any day now…

    Knock on wood, but really? Literally only right wing rags and Spin Machines are saying this.

  15. 15.

    mike in dc

    Would love for Kushner to be among those indicted first. The freakout on the right would be immensely entertaining.

  16. 16.

    randy khan

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    And I was in a meeting with a member of House Intelligence Committee today, and he didn’t say anything about indictments. (I really was, and he really didn’t, but obviously that doesn’t mean anything.)

  20. 20.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @randy khan: Yes – I’ve been thinking that the speed with which the other outlets are catching up suggests a single source. But other reports that have come out that way have been reliable. Seems to be how people are handling this. Hard to see the motivation for this. Would be beneficial to the prosecution to keep it secret until the person/ people are arrested. Could be a warning. But hard to see that it’s going to be a surprise if it is any of the people we’re speculating about.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    Meanwhile, over at the Obamas…

    Chicago Tribune‏Verified account @chicagotribune
    Former President Barack Obama called for Cook County jury duty — and plans to serve next month, chief judge said.

  23. 23.

    oldgold

    It is a bit disconcerting that a true bill has been returned this early in the process. It is probably not a good sign.

  25. 25.

    Petorado

    It would be really cool if Mueller got some FISA warrants to monitor communications of persons of interest in advance of this news to see who’d freak out and what they’re freaking out about. Swords of Damocles bitches!

  28. 28.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Evans later told the Tribune that adjustments would be made to accommodate Obama’s security detail, but he could not say the date or courthouse location where the former president is expected to report.
    “Obviously we will make certain that he has all the accouterments that accompany a former president,” Evans said. “His safety will be uppermost in our minds.”
    “He made it crystal-clear to me through his representative that he would carry out his public duty as a citizen and resident of this community,” Evans said.

  30. 30.

    mad citizen

    @opiejeanne: Saw that too and agree. They can’t all be home runs. I took it they liked his Texas drawl phrasing. Probably time to retire this ritual anyway.

  32. 32.

    oldgold

    @jl:

    My guess is the Special Prosecutor has run into a coordinated stonewall of silence. The early indictment is an attempt breach this stonewall.

  33. 33.

    The Dangerman

    Can I get my money on Don Jr. and Manafort? Weren’t those the only Trumplodytes at the infamous adoption meeting?

  36. 36.

    Kay

    Andrew Lawrence‏ @ndrew_lawrence 14m14 minutes ago
    More
    Roger Stone is handling tonight’s news like the dapper gentleman he is

    He’s going crazy– he seems to be yelling at Charles Blow on Twitter :)

  39. 39.

    mike in dc

    @oldgold: Subornation of Perjury is also a felony. I’d predict that if Trump abuses the pardon power here, a constitutional amendment curbing the scope of the pardon power will be an inevitable response to that.

  44. 44.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No way he sits.

    Maybe it’s a case involving a constitutional question and he’s the perfect juror!

    Not sure how many of those end up in state courts, however….

    Actually, I am sure: zero.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    He’s screaming that they are liars and …a lot of other insults.

    This is odd- I would think she’d call it fake news or something:

    Sarah Palin‏Verified account
    @SarahPalinUSA
    Wow.
    This is huge news. Details below.

  51. 51.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @oldgold: You post here every once in a while. I don’t mean to be cynical, but we haven’t seen you here for a long time and now you show up making vague, negative comments. I wonder…

  55. 55.

    Cheryl Rofer

    And with that, I’ll say goodnight and give the kitties their late-night snack.

  57. 57.

    Lizzy L

    @mike in dc: This seems completely unlikely. You think the red states will vote to curb the ability of the President to pardon? Why would they do that?

  61. 61.

    lgerard

    @Kay:

    While Obama would likely be the highest-profile person ever to appear for jury duty in Cook County, other famous people, including Oprah Winfrey and Mr. T, have served

    I would have loved to serve on a jury with Mr T!

    I pity the fool who doesn’t find this fool guilty

  62. 62.

    Lizzy L

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t believe they would. But I am sure the red states wouldn’t, and I think there are more red state dominated legislatures than blue ones.

  65. 65.

    Millard Filmore

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    UraniumOne is currently the top hashtag.

    Either they were caught by surprise or they are trying to ignore/flood-out the news, same as Fox.

    There is an internet page for EVERYTHING. Thanks for the link.

  67. 67.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Lizzy L: Quick question: Are there enough states that would support such a Constitutional Amendment?

    Seriously, is this something that could happen?

  70. 70.

    JGabriel

    @mike in dc:

    I’d predict that if Trump abuses the pardon power here, a constitutional amendment curbing the scope of the pardon power will be an inevitable response to that.

    Perhaps, but I doubt it. In any event, a constitutional amendment won’t be ratified before Trump leaves office, so it won’t do anything to curb Trump’s abuse of the pardon power.

  71. 71.

    mike in dc

    @JGabriel: the 22nd amendment wasn’t passed until FDR was out of office, either. If a president uses the pardon power to obstruct justice, suborn perjury, and attempt to insulate themselves from impeachment, then there will be a strong backlash from both the opposition party and from the public, and that will likely culminate in a curb upon said pardon power. The alternative is that things will only get worse, and even worse lawlessness will be encouraged going forward. We will lose the republic if we let abuses stand uncorrected.

  72. 72.

    Lizzy L

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think anyone is interested in making it happen. But I suppose that depends on how badly Trump abuses the pardon power before he leaves office.

    @mike in dc: You think 3/4 of the states would ratify such an amendment? I don’t.

  75. 75.

    mike in dc

    @Lizzy L:
    I do. If it’s obvious enough that the power was abused to insulate the sitting president from the consequences of treasonous conduct, why not? Do they really want an elected Democratic president to do the same thing?

  76. 76.

    Lizzy L

    @mike in dc: I have no idea what they will want should such a situation arise, and neither do you. This does not seem to me to be fruitful speculation. YMMV.

  77. 77.

    JGabriel

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, let’s just give up then. Fuck it. //s//

    Heh.

    I’m not saying mike in dc’s idea that we should curb the pardon power is bad, or even that it shouldn’t be pursued. But, like you, I don’t see how, given the current political environment and GOP dominance of most state legislatures, we get to 3/4 of the states ratifying it.

    I’d be happy to be proven wrong, though.

  78. 78.

    mike in dc

    @JGabriel:

    Regardless of potential pardon abuse, my feeling is that the truth will out, and unambiguous evidence of wrongdoing will be brought to light. So the obviousness of the abuse of the pardon power will be clear to all but the truest of true believers. Pardons have never been thusly abused before. Generally when an obvious abuse of the law happens, the urge to correct it mounts steadily over time.

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: He’s panicked. He’s seen the news. What he doesn’t know is if the indictment, or one of the indictments, has his name on it. Whether after almost 50 years of managing to do just enough to stave off actual legal jeopardy his luck has finally run out.

  85. 85.

    Duane

    Trump was at the White House today, handing out Hersheys Kisses to children. The candy was sitting in front of him, still in the factory box. Couldn’t rustle up a couple of plastic pumpkins or a wicker basket? These people can’t stage a Halloween photo-op and they are in charge of our country. Good grief.

  86. 86.

    Schlemazel

    @oldgold: Mr Bernstein ha been pretty consistent since the 1980s. But only in polishing the knobs of the well to do GOP. Carried water for St. Ron, Pappy and Boy Blunder. Leaked GOP bullshit on Clinton and Obama. Pardon me if I don’t take his word for anything

  90. 90.

    jl

    @oldgold: OK, thanks. The lawyer who has worked in white collar crime I mentioned said that if there are some very solid financial crime cases and good leads and evidence, then indictments should start right about now and keep coming on a regular basis. Put out the best shit-the-targets’- pants-scary ironclad slam dunk cases as soon as possible. That is how a successful investigation that pays off should begin. He said by Halloween, the investigation would have plenty of time to get some of those ready.

    So, we’ll see who’s right.

    Edit: Bernstein’s story would be more convincing if he could describe those lawyers a little better. Looks like a number of lawyers anticipated indictments around now, but they have different interpretations of what it means.

  93. 93.

    jl

    @oldgold: I guess what we do not know is if these are coming early, is that because the investigation wants to turn the defendants in order to obtain evidence for something on other targets, or they have evidence on a lot of other targets but want to get some evidence on bigger crimes. The lawyer I talk with thinks that the whole Trumpster gang, including the bigshot, is so dirty with financial crimes that they could all easily get convicted, or utterly ruined, just on those alone.

  94. 94.

    jl

    @Major Major Major Major: I like cats. I also like dogs. I have experience with a pet piglet, and they are a lot of fun. But then they get way too big and will tear you apart when they try to play like when they were a piglet and it comes to a sad end. When I was just out of college, my roomy bout a huge parrot, which was fun, until it got bored with the new place and people and started to dismantle the house. The End.

  95. 95.

    Major Major Major Major

    @jl: Sounds like you’ve had some exotic pets! I also like piglets but man do they get big. It’s too bad, really. And a bird right out of college? That’s crazy, you’ll have it for life! If you take care of it, which your roommate did not.

  96. 96.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @jl:

    I have experience with a pet piglet, and they are a lot of fun.

    But when they get older, they can be a real bore.

    But then they get way too big and will tear you apart when they try to play like when they were a piglet and it comes to a sad end.

    Mmmmm, bacon.

  100. 100.

    Spaniel

    I thought Sarah Huckabee Sanders had told the press corps in the middle of this past week that Mueller’s investigation would be wrapping up soon.

    I guess with her boss plaong chess on 20-something levels and her history of lying, she meant to say Trump and the loyal staff of sychophants were getting in front of the PR and getting the ong knives out to settle some scores.

  109. 109.

    Ruckus

    @Major Major Major Major:
    It’s been about 6-7 weeks so everyone is at least outwardly OK. Still miss that cat though, more than I thought I would. I still occasionally catch my self being careful she doesn’t run out when I open the door. Oh well happens to the best and the worst of us.

  110. 110.

    Peale

    @jl: I think the financial crimes angle is probably correct. It explains why the GOP noise machine spent time whipping up The Ziff frenzy today. Are there Dems with dirty Russian money? Yep. Sure. But that’s besides the point.

  113. 113.

    ericblair

    @Major Major Major Major:

    unlike the republicans I’m sure we would be more than happy to get rid of our politicians who are in thrall to a (let’s be frank) enemy power.

    Yes, when Dems get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar they tend to be one-offs. Republican corruption is pervasive and systemic. From just the shit that comes across the papers, it’s hard NOT to find corruption with Republicans. It’s like drilling for water in a swamp. And I agree, if there are some dirty Dems there then let them go down as well.

  114. 114.

    VeniceRiley

    @GregB:

    I’m picking Rebekah Mercer as a darknhorse indictment.

    I that why @patrickesque is dredging up her acting days? He is ruining Xena: Warrior Princess for me!

  115. 115.

    TriassicSands

    Random, off,off-topic question.

    Why do so many people, especially Brits, have so much trouble pronouncing “vulnerable.”

    Is V-U-L-n-e-r-a-b-l-e really so much harder to say than V-U-N-e-r-a-b-l-e?

    I don’t know if I’ve ever heard a Brit pronounce it correctly. I don’t think I have.
    Is this like noo-kew-lar versus noo-clee-ur? Or different?

  118. 118.

    Comrade Nimrod Humperdink

    @rikyrah: That’d be about the only time I’d ever consider jury duty possibly appealing, but no he won’t sit. The lawyers would seek to exclude him even if he was a nobody in politics with his other resume’, as noted above lawyers tend to prefer jury pools composed primarily of idiots.

  120. 120.

    Amir Khalid

    @TriassicSands:
    I have not noticed this myself. It’s not a word whose pronunciation varies much between different accents. As far as can tell, the British pronounce “vulnerable” just fine.

  121. 121.

    randy khan

    @rikyrah:

    Many years ago, when California changed its jury system to get rid of a bunch of exemptions, Jerry Brown (in his first stint as governor) was called for jury duty almost immediately after the changes went into effect. The lawyers apparently were afraid of the backlash they would get if they challenged him, so he sat on a jury and was chosen as foreman. So you never know.

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