Here’s the complete Tapper interview, for those whose weekends are politics-free. Apart from all the peculiar behavior that’s already been noted here, during the interview, Miller rocks back and forth the way Bill Gates did while testifying, which you may remember had observers making remarks about his neurotypical quirks. Miller also keeps jerking his head like a nervous horse — he probably just isn’t comfortable with the earpiece whose cord emerges from the back of his collar, but seriously, that’s why newbies take rehearsals, if their bosses care about appearances.
Word is that Miller is supposed to replace Bannon as the Trump Occupation’s “house intellectual”. If so, he has… not made a good first impression, not even on those Republicans most avid to support Lord Smallgloves as (figure)head of their crusade against the twentieth century…
The full @jaketapper interview with Stephen Miller shows you that Tapper was being easy on Miller when he said that they've already wasted enough of his viewers' time. A stable genius would get better people to go out and defend him on the Sunday shows. https://t.co/DSwYrlmt6Z
— Josh Jordan (@NumbersMuncher) January 7, 2018
Miller: “The allegations and insinuations in this book, which are a pure work of fiction, are nothing but a pile of trash through and through."
— Matt Berman (@Mr_Berman) January 7, 2018
“He was supposed to be the house intellectual but was militantly unread.”
Fire and Fury, in describing how the travel ban EO was drafted and bungled, has this description of Trump side Stephen Miller. pic.twitter.com/ssxWWpC5sw
— Katy Tur (@KatyTurNBC) January 4, 2018
Stephen Miller can't say if Trump met with the Russians at Trump Tower. @CNNSotu
— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) January 7, 2018
The most amazing thing isn't what a trainwreck the Stephen Miller interview was with Jake Tapper – it's that Trump once again went out of his way to bring attention to something that makes him and his team looks awful.
— Josh Jordan (@NumbersMuncher) January 7, 2018
And makes the Wolff book look more plausible. https://t.co/mjAxvUXka0
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) January 7, 2018
I don’t get the strategy. Have Miller issue a statement about Bannon. Send Sanders on TV. This is why you have a comms department, guys.
— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) January 7, 2018
Yea, pretty sure Tapper got that part right. This was a performance for an audience of one.
— Stephen Gutowski (@StephenGutowski) January 7, 2018
If so, mission accomplished!
Jake Tapper of Fake News CNN just got destroyed in his interview with Stephen Miller of the Trump Administration. Watch the hatred and unfairness of this CNN flunky!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 7, 2018
Our president proving what @jaketapper suggested in the interview — MIller was speaking to one audience member. Has any other WH official in history called their boss a genius? Several times in one 12-minute interview? https://t.co/VSejsxCzQ5
— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) January 7, 2018
Now that I've finished Michael Wolff's book, I can say: nothing could possibly underscore the truth of Wolff's portrayal of Trump, and of how Trump's staff humiliates themselves to please him, more than Stephen Miller's performance on @JakeTapper's show https://t.co/d4WfrSsWXx
— Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) January 7, 2018
It’s not as though a disaster wasn’t predictable…
Easy prediction: Miller is going on CNN to publicly behead Steve Bannon for a gleeful audience of One. Trump wants every last person historically described as a Bannon ally to bury him on TV. Trump is telling people to choose between him and Bannon and everyone is choosing Trump. https://t.co/Zs85L95EFI
— Jonathan Swan (@jonathanvswan) January 7, 2018
Probably. But he'll be as repulsive and insufferable as he usually is on TV and will somehow make Bannon seem charming by comparison.
— Elizabeth Spiers (@espiers) January 7, 2018
As a bonus, some useful biographical information…
“Oh my God,” said a former staffer for Republican leadership on the Hill. “He's going to find out that I spoke with you and I’m going to end up in a camp somewhere.”
The incomparable @juliaioffe’s June 2016 piece on Stephen Miller: https://t.co/3nJQIpJph9
— Zack Stanton (@zackstanton) January 7, 2018
When they drag Miller from CNN pic.twitter.com/EJyKV4vnp6
— Schooley (@Rschooley) January 8, 2018
Reports on the Twittersphere this am are that Miller had to be escorted by security off the set of CNN.
Big Ole Hound
Morning! Miller is the definition of a humorless company asshole. Unfortunately they are strewn throughout corporate America making decisions that affect all of us. AAAck.
The things Miller was saying in the Tapper segment are what he says to Trump. I’m guessing that the reason is there’s some trauma he’s continually reenacting.
OT: And when I see ‘stable genius’, I think ‘Mr. Ed’.
mai naem mobile
Wasn’t Miller on ABC This Week several months ago and did a really shitty job then as well? KAC must have decided she doesn’t want to do time in prison by getting caught lying any more on teevee about the Russian thing. It should have been her job to go on teevee not Tic Toc Stevie.
Donald J Trump…super genius.
I’m just waiting for one of his people or he himself to make that statement without of course recalling who that is most famously associated/applied to.
Just for you Ana from the Malibu Creek Park, scene of many a Hollywood Production!
Hey, thanks a lot. Seeing a vision of the Undead staggering toward me babbling about the Genius King is just what I needed on Monday morning. Might need a little Irish in my coffee.
Trump does this all the time – forcing the help to spout demonstrable bullshit publicly as proof of loyalty and to lock them in: see Spicer, Sanders Huckabee, Conway, McMaster, Kelly, Sessions as examples.
You notice Ivanka and Jared don’t volunteer for any of this. They don’t even tweet and Instagram about Daddy the way Uday and Qusay do, however ineptly.
Miller & Bannon are brothers from different mothers. They both come from the very same place. There is no way they aren’t still in cahoots with each other as they both want the same thing. White Republican rule forever.
mike in dc
The NBC story about the Trump/Mueller interview negotiations is probably the most important substantive news story. Shows a total lack of confidence in their client’s ability to survive an interview intact. Zero chance Mueller accepts an affidavit or answers to a written questionnaire or major constraints on time or subject matter. Any good prosecutor will want no limits on an interview–they interview you as long as it takes to get all their questions answered, full stop.
To be fair, there’s no good way to argue that your boss is not as stupid or bat-shit crazy as he appears. Of course, if you want to show the worst way to go about it, Miller nailed it.
@raven: Malibu State Park(aka, Century Ranch), 1977.
@MattF: I would prefer Mr. Ed as President. there would at least be no fingers to press a button.
@sherparick1: Would Wiiillllbeeerrr be the Chief of Staff?
I’m listening to the CNN video of Jake Tapper’s attempt to interview Miller. It goes on for 12min 34sec. Tapper gave him 12 minutes too long.
If Miller was some kind of policy savant you cold get beyond his horrific public appearance but with Miller you get the double plus goodness of useless in public and worthless in the trenches.
Donald hires the best people!
His eyes. They’re just so lifeless. It’s weird and creepy. I really feel like this is someone who feels no pleasure unless he’s hurting someone else.
Also, why won’t people on news media just turn off mics more often? It’s really annoying to watch someone shouting over someone else. Just turn off the mic until they’re willing to wait their turn. Or, like, if they go off on a tangent. Mic off. I guarantee, it’d be a heck of a lot more entertaining than the usual YELLMYTALKINGPOINTSOVEREVERYONEELSE.
Do Republicans get trained in how to do that? It’s really weird how they all do it.
Jake Tapper got into a brief twitter argument with someone who called Miller a nazi. Tapper: “He can’t be a nazi. He’s Jewish.”
“Sometimes that shark, he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. Y’know the thing about a shark, he’s got… lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll’s eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn’t seem to be livin’… until he bites ya. And those black eyes roll over white, and then… oh, then you hear that terrible high-pitch screamin’, the ocean turns red, and spite of all the poundin’ and the hollerin’, they all come in and they… rip you to pieces.”
@Anne Laurie: AAAAAGGGHHHHH! That image is going to haunt my nightmares now.
@sherparick1: And probably less shit to clean up.?
Nunberg’s appearance on Joy Reid’s show was stranger than this. Nunberg seemed inebriated.
@mai naem mobile: I kinda doubt “lying on TV” is against any laws, else wise our prisons would be filled with politicians.
Yes, they do.
@germy: See, I wanted to refer to them as “shark eyes,” but I like sharks. Also, his blatant pandering to his boss paints him as such a wuss I can’t really compare him to an apex predator. Maybe a turtle. They have flat eyes and little wrinkly heads, too.
That said, holy cow, do I love that movie. Any time is a good time to quote Jaws. I still stand by it being Spielberg’s best movie, because it’s a monster movie about a big shark and yet you care so intensely about the three guys hunting it.
The only thing I can find that makes sense is Wile E. Coyote. Do you mean someone/something else?
In addition to Swan’s story on Moanin’ Joe about how Miller had to be escorted by security out of CNN, I’m also savoring Blumenthal’s disclosure that indictments and convictions will follow shortly in the new year. I wondered if Mueller were holding back because of the holidays.
@germy: That’s the one thing I found not credible about Wolff’s book, that Bannon said he doesn’t drink. I’ve seen drunks at their worst(eh, looking in a mirror) and they look better than Bannon.
It ain’t just republicans.
Obvious Russian Troll
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t necessarily see that as an issue. We can believe Bannon said that to Wolff without believing Bannon.
mike in dc
I’m torn on Stephen Miller…sociopath, or psychopath? I lean towards the latter.
@germy: “OK, he’s a Sonderkommando.”
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Bannon is intoxicated by his own magnificence. The cirrhosis of the liver is just a coincidence.
Apparently our prevaricating President left a pair of his Pinocchio pants in the attic of Trump Tower.
@MattF: Heh, maybe “The Mooch” was right, he does suck his own…
@germy: “He can’t be a nazi. He’s Jewish.”
Now, that’s some first rate bullshit right there.
One of the things I’ve noted about reviews of the book is that Wolff gets accused of stating things that aren’t true, when in fact it seems to me what he’s doing is quoting people who may be saying things that aren’t true. My dad was an alcoholic and lied all the time about how much he drank. I find it totally credible that Bannon says he doesn’t drink. I don’t believe him, but I believe that he says it.
@OzarkHillbilly: I was about to suggest the same thing, although I’d add he’s a Kapo Sonderkommando. He’ll be the very last one to die.
@Tokyokie: On 2nd thought, I think the comparison to sonderkommandos is unfair to them. They at least were under threat of death. Miller is free to leave at any time.
@retiredeng: As I recall, the name used for such people back in the day was “kapo”…?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
What is it about Miller that’s so deeply unsettling? He’s creepy and scary in the way that you’d think a serial killer would be. I’ve never met a serial killer, but I can’t help feeling that if I did, he’d come across a lot like Miller. There’s something badly wrong with the guy. I don’t know what it is, but it’s there.
@mike in dc:
Are the two mutually exclusive? I’m of the opinion they are not.
@kindness: Miller could be Bannon’s spawn..
@Nicole: True, you have a point there. It’s from page 4 of the Kindle version, Bannon’s offered a glass of wine and turns it down and says he doesn’t drink.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Agreed, his eyes are lifeless.
Is there a transcript of this interview available anywhere?
The discussion of Miller’s creepiness downplays how hard he pushes Trump’s racist, nativist agenda.
Near the end, before Tapper boots him from the show, Miller starts talking about hard working, presumably white, workers who have lost their manufacturing jobs. He goes on to talk about how these white people are “besieged by communities of crime” and unrestricted immigration of, you know, not the right kind of people.
This ain’t a dog whistle. It’s a direct insult, and despicable. I also find it odd that the Jewish, nonwhites and women in the Trump administration believe that they can play with the fire of racism and sexism that Trump gleefully stokes and not get burnt themselves.
Miller is just so punchable.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Well, that’s possible. He may have been warned that additional drinking will kill him.
@Anne Laurie: “…long pig quesarito…” BWAH-HAH-HA! That’s awesome.
Hey over on Fox Snooze dot com, they’re asking the important question here: “Will the Left EVER quit questioning Trumpov’s mental stability?” I mean, come ON guys, that is just soooo 2017…
(and 2015, and 2016, and 2018, and 2019, and…)
Every group has its collaborators, each with his/her own “justification.”
I was waiting for when it would come out that Trump doesn’t work hard.
I bet that enrages him- the idea that these people work hard is so important to the narrative of “meritocracy” that it’s almost like breaking a magic spell.
Who knows what else we’ll admit, huh? That rich and powerful people are often stupid and mean-spirited? We could bust up all sorts of cherished myths.
@Nicole: Barnicle on MJ asked Wolff if Bannon was ever drunk when Wolff was interviewing him. Wolff said no..that Bannon was offered a drink at some point when they were talking and Bannon declined.
I agree: The left should just “get over it,” the same the way the Republicans did when Obama was elected.
ETA: Of course, Obama’s “election” was illegitimate and fake, etc., etc.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Well, he’s creepy and he’s kooky, mysterious and spooky.
He’s altogether ooky.
@Kay: You’re suggesting that 11am to 4pm isn’t a full day?
@germy: Oh, my!?
The Moar You Know
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m sure he said it, he probably has to say it a lot.
Might even believe him if he looked like Kellyanne Conway. The only reason I’ll believe she’s not a methhead is the lack of visible lesions.
Stephen Miller Russian PopStar? Via William Gibson’s Twitter feed – @GreatDismal
@mike in dc: @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): @SFAW:
The label really doesn’t matter. Everyone’s instincts/intuitions here are correct: Miller would have no more problem killing people he feels are ‘beneath’ him than he would swatting a fly.
@Brachiator: According to Wolff’s book, Miller drafted that first EO banning Muslims, even green card holders from entering the United States. Did Tapper ask anything about it?
Fuck that. EVERY member of the Addams Family was more likeable than Miller. Including Thing.
Wile E. Coyote had far too good a work ethic to be compared to the higher ups currently in the White House.
Hey! I resent that!
Should we start a pool on how much longer Miller is going to last? Trump doesn’t like it when someone on the staff gets more pixels than he does.
ETA: Although Miller has, one presumes, mastered the various acts and positions of humiliation.
@Bruce K: I think there are numerous words for the phenomenon. But Miller is more (less?) than that. He’s a hateful xenophobic worm.
@Kay: They hate immigrants not because they are lazy but because they are not. On no other issue have their lies been so numerous as immigration. Xenophobia and bigotry is what motivates them.
Questioning the leader’s mental fitness? Here’s what drumpf was saying during Obama’s presidency:
I was getting my hair cut and I read (part of) a puff piece about Jared and Ivanka in US magazine. They have this whole practiced narrative on how hard they work- they get up at 5:30 AM and work non-stop to 11 PM, blah, blah.
There’s a certain kind of person who does this. It’s central to their idea of themselves. Half the time it’s complete bullshit. The “70 hour weeks” evaporate when you live near them and see them all the time. It’s crucial that this narrative be promoted, or else people would start to wonder why they have all this money.
Miller gives self-hating Jews a bad name.
Will any shows (other than fox) invite him, if they know they’ll need security to convince him to leave?
@MattF: Stable geniuses don’t have to work at it as much as the Black guy. Nothing to see here
I wonder if he said it like Bela Lugosi: “I never drink… wine…”
(In seriousness, my father’s beverage of choice was gin. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw him drink wine.)
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I met David Koresh in the … 70s? He was on the steps of the Riverside Main Public Library and offered to preach to us. He was offended when we didn’t immediately shout “Hallelujah!” and turned slightly away to get past him for the door. He said a weird thing akin to shaking the dust off of his sandals at us, something like “no, you can’t hear God’s Word, I will not share it with you!” Feeling slightly guilty that I’d hurt his feelings I turned to say something to him and he turned his back on us. I only remembered him when the shit blew up in 1993 and there was an article describing him on the steps of that library doing exactly what we’d witnessed.
I don’t remember dead eyes, but that guy was a sociopath/psychopath for sure. I’m told that there is no difference between the two words these days, that they mean the same thing.
Kay, I truly hope you’re not suggesting that rich people haven’t earned every cent (and earn it every day).
@SFAW: Modern psychology says they are one and the same.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I know a serial killer (husband of the spousal unit’s best friend), and I find Miller far creepier.
@rikyrah: When is it ok to punch a Nazi?
Miller’s really horrid even amid an administration packed with awful people. They’re bad people. Mean-spirited, dishonest, lazy. It’s no more complicated than that. The lies about the “slaughter” in sanctuary cities are right up there with supporting the child molester, which they all did.
I wonder if we’ll ever get a legit investigation into the arson. It’s terrorism. I want someone prosecuted. I’d say “call the FBI” but I’m no longer sure they’re on Team Law Enforcement. Maybe a go fund me for a private investigator? I guess the insuror will conduct an investigation.
If it’s like some of the hereditary wealthy I’ve known, that should be amended to say, “they get up at 5:30 and work non-stop to 11PM at avoiding physical contact and conversation with their children.” And then people wonder why so many rich kids grow up to horrible human beings, when they aren’t spending their trust fund on nose powder.
Most white people, including those in the media, are blind to Trump administration racism, or think that it is merely political. They ignore the nasty, punitive nature of immigration policy.
Many reporters and pundits also single out Bannon on the nativism, and ignore Miller, Kelly and others.
@Brachiator: Kelly had many defenders on this blog until he went out and smeared Rep. Wilson. And we were assured that he was not a racist despite strong evidence to contrary based on his DHS tenure.
@schrodingers_cat: I find it funny how they are certain that the “superior race” can’t compete with all these inferiors.
mike in dc
@Tokyokie: Real serial murderers are often fairly mundane…at first appearance. The creepy stuff only comes up when they go into detail about their crimes. Of note, many sociopaths and psychopaths have never committed a crime in their lives. The primary markers, as I understand it, are a lack of empathy(sociopaths have little empathy, psychopaths have none), lack of remorse(limited for sociopaths, none for psychopaths), and a lack of impulse control(a tendency to act without regard to consequences). Other things like impaired ability to feel pleasure and other stuff, too. But those are the big 3, as I understand it. My sis is a forensic neuropsychologist, so she knows waaaay more about this than I do.
I’m still getting used to the idea that a single person has been tasked with oversight and investigation of the entire Trump Administration.
Now there’s a hard worker. Can we get this guy a raise? He’s doing the job of like 10,000 people.
One. We have one. God, I hope he doesn’t fuck it up.
Had I won the big lottery, I would have bought a horse just so I could name it “Stable Genius.”
@Tokyokie: Wait, what? I hope the guy’s in prison.
My kids had a young woman dance teacher who briefly dated a guy who killed someone by beheading him. He was in the old Riverside jail, on the roof during exercises time when something happened that distracted the guards. He leapt from the roof to a tall palm tree and slid down it, I think 3 stories worth (OUCH!) Then spent the next week hiding out in the landscaping beside the 91 freeway.
mike in dc
@Kay: To be fair, he’s got like 50 people(attorneys and staff and FBI investigators) helping him out. But Bobby Three Sticks doesn’t have a 2.5 hour work day, that’s for sure.
@Brachiator: You know, if you find yourself in the position of trying to convince everyone that you are a stable genius it’s probably because there is so much evidence piling up to the contrary. I used to walk past Lafayette Park to the Metro and once passed a woman screaming at the top of her lungs to no one in particular that “I am not a danger to myself or others!!!!”
@mike in dc: By the time I met him, the serial killer I know had found religion and gotten married, and his murders were 20 years in the past. He actually was personable.
Since it’s an open thread, did anybody else spot this:
Russia meddling in Mexican election: White House aide McMaster
Interesting in at least two obvious ways:
(a) It appears to imply that the US intelligence agencies are detecting and tracking computational propaganda efforts, probably both abroad and domestically, or at least that they are claiming the skills to do so, including attribution methods.
(b) It appeared at all, contrary to the pro-Russian narratives (e.g. “Russian election interference is a US Deep State plot”) actively being deployed and nurtured, and McMaster was the visible front for it.
(I admit to being a little twitchy about this; not clear to me what is going on.)
@Quinerly: In the preface to the book, Wolff states that sometimes different people told incompatible versions of events. He tried to clarify where he could but otherwise left it to the reader to judge. There is the incident on page 4 of the Kindle edition (dinner at Wolff’s place) where Bannon turns down a glass of wine, saying he doesn’t drink. In Chapter 4, titled “Bannon”, on page 55 it says “Bannon was rather a movie figure himself. A Type. Alcohol.”
@opiejeanne: He’s been on Death Row for several years now.
Gin & Tonic
@Bill Arnold: Yes, that was brought to my attention by my son. His GF is Mexican, and therefore he’s been to Mexico several times, has friends there, and follows Mexican politics more closely than most. He’s also “a little twitchy” – and I otherwise agree with you as to what’s interesting here.
@Kay: You forgot “amoral” in your litany of the tRumpets’s sins. Otherwise spot-on.
@mike in dc:
He looks like a serial killer.
Tapper tried asking about that. Tapper tried asking about a lot of stuff. Miller just kept talking over him, reciting the same talking points over and over again. Frankly, Jake gave him about four times the amount of air time Miller warrented — it took him way too long to twig that Miller wasn’t going to answer any of his questions.
Meanwhile, the Dems are preparing to play some hardball: “Release the Fusion GPS/Steele Dossier testimony transcripts, or we’ll read them publicly into the Senate record”
(granted, the GOP could try and block that as well…but think of how that’ll look…)
mike in dc
@Tokyokie: Since you mention he’s on death row, it’s difficult to evaluate whether a turn to conversion is sincere(possible for a sociopath) or calculated(likely for a psychopath). Psychopaths can be very adept at imitating normalcy. It’s how they blend in. Figuring out the social cues, feigning sympathy, etc.
STABLE GENIUS anagrams into ABUSE TINGLES and BEAT UGLINESS, among thousands of other choices.
People stop at the personal racism and are deliberately blind to the racist policy of this administration. Or think that it will be limited to the “poor and vulnerable” nonwhite people.
@Brachiator: It was perhaps naive of me to expect better standards from Balloon Juice than the MSM.
That is not fair to the Sonderkommandos. The word means work group, and Kapo is the leader of that group. These people were selected semi-randomly at the death camps for labor details, perhaps they appeared to be the most fit among the incoming prisoner transports. They did NOT volunteer in any normal sense of the word.
Please find a more appropriate word.
Edit: I see you have reconsidered the use of that word. And no, they were not the last to die. The work groups were liquidated and rebuilt on an approximately monthly basis.
@mike in dc: He was never particularly adept socially, but I didn’t meet him until years after his killings, and I have no idea how he was before.
But I still find Miller creepier.
@Millard Filmore: Mir Jaffer, who betrayed the Nawab of Bengal to Robert Clive and gave the British their first major military victory in India in 1757 would be a better comparison.
@mike in dc: His family settled in Johnstown PA, east of Pittsburgh. They have said publicly that they are good, union-membership Democrats and have nothing to do with whatever might have happened to him once that branch of the family moved to California.
“I never drink … wine.”
Props to the first person who can get them to brag about working 7 days a week.
@Mnemosyne: Hard liquor, straight from the bottle!
@Feathers: OMG. THAT WAS FABULOUS! Thank you.
mai naem mobile
I wonder if Miller leaves when Sessions leaves. He had some policy position in Sessions’ office before he came to Dolt45.
@schrodingers_cat: Balloon Juice never endorsed Kelly. A few military types had friends that respected Kelly and that is it. Stop smearing a whole blog and readership on your pet issue, damn it.
Interesting article in WaPo on Kelly, showing his backround and true colors. No one here is coming to his defense.
It’s a classic movie line. ? Funny how Bela Lugosi’s Hungarian accent is still the vampire accent in pop culture over 70 years later.
@mike in dc:
Miller would volunteer to drop the pellets into the “shower” chute. Yeah, I’m going there.
As to Bannon, he folded like a cheap suit much faster than I would have ever predicted. He makes weaksauce seem like chauteaubriand sauce by comparison. SAD! But, it does eliminate him as a distraction so we can pivot back to the Real Problem in the WH. Once he got fired he lost any real power, despite pulling levers back at Breitbart.
Big Jim Slade
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Don’t forget Planet of the Apes – coming soon to an earth near you?
Miller is a real-life version of that creepy guard in “The Green Mile” who deliberately sabotaged an electrocution just so he could watch the man suffer. Only a complete imbecile like Trump would elevate this guy to a position of power.
mai naem mobile
@glory b: I looked Miller up a whIle back. His dad owns a real estate investment/development company. Not Sam Zell wealthy but sounded like they were very comfortable. Anyhow, the dad was either a current or former head of the Republican Jewish Committee. I think the moms family are Dems and maybe not the father’s .
Miller :: Chaim Rumkowski
If it comes to that, in the book Uncle Tom was actually a kindly, heroic character who did his best to protect his fellow slaves. Epithets don’t always follow reality.
@Humdog: Until the Rep. Wilson incident quite a few here were just not ready to believe the extent Kelly’s bigotry. That is a fact.
After that incident no one here has given Kelly the benefit of the doubt, that’s what I like about this blog and its readership, we are capable of learning.
ETA: It is not my pet issue as you put it but an issue that affects people like me. What separates me from them is a piece of paper and we know that was not enough to save the Jewish people in Germany or the Japanese who were interned here.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Humdog: SC has been raising the alarm about a community under attack by this racist, nativist administration. Your concern over tone is unnecessary. “Pet issue”? Tell that to the kids whose parents, caregivers, and teachers are being forcibly removed from their country…
Current minor amusing pastime: deciding who is it with egg on their faces (image)
Seven? Big deal. Shitgibbon is the hardest workingest most geniusest workingest Preznit ever — he works 10 — TEN!! — days a week, 37 hours per day. He accomplishes more in one week than all the previous Presidents, for their whole terms, combined!!! And a skillion times more productive than that black Kenyan Moooslim guy who stole the Presidency with help from the Russkies.
@Jeffro: I, for one, have never guestioned it. I have always been certain he’s nuts.
@Mnemosyne: Thanks! You are a movie encyclopaedia
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Thank you.
@germy: The answer to that is “go look up kapo.”
Am I the only one who’s seeing that there was a fire at Trump Tower this morning?
@mike in dc:
I haven’t watched him enough to judge, but this site might be helpful for some people to better understand the mind type, from the inside.
Maybe Miller was just speaking tongue in cheek, like Trump did when calling himself a genius.
And I say this with kindness and sincerity.
Well, it’s not as if they’d be able to sneak the burn-bags out through the front door.
@VOR: Read all of that. I was just talking about what Mike Barnicle asked him point blank this AM in an interview. “Was Bannon drunk in any of these interviews.” Wolff said, “No.” Added the snippet that Bannon turned down a drink in his presence. That’s all I was recounting…nothing more, nothing less. Barnicle asked what I would have asked right out of the gate. My copy of the book hasn’t arrived from Amazon.
Miller is kind of a reincarnation of Roy Cohn. No wonder Trump likes him.
@Quinerly: was bannon drunk in any of these interviews is a question meant to elicit information about Bannons level of responsibility for things he is wuoted as saying.
It is a big deal if you brag about following Orthodox Judaism.
Ok, this is a little irritating: Jennifer Rubin is fawning all over Oprah Winfrey’s speech at last night’s Golden Globes. Which is fine – it was a great speech. But…well…see if you can figure out why I’m irritated:
I mean…there was this person available to help lead the free world about a year ago who seemed to fit the bill pretty well on the above points…
@Hoodie: He even looks a fair bit like Roy, now that I think of it.
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: yah. Wapo is reporting 200,000 el salvadorans may be deported. These are our patients at my clinic, or their parents or children. Terrifying.
I don’t really separate the members of the media from the general public. There are many who just assume that the racists are a lunatic fringe. They don’t easily believe that Trump would resurrect Jim Crow or the patently racist immigration laws of the past.
I give a lot of credit to Balloon Juice folk who have fought against and turned away from racists in their lives, including friends and family. It is not always an easy or comfortable thing to do.
Some of Trump’s racist efforts have been blunted by the courts. But other efforts, especially related to immigration and deportation, have been successful. People need to be vigilant. Miller didn’t spout crap about unrestrained immigration just because he wanted tv face time. He was speaking to Trump supporters, telling them that Trump is there to fulfil their racist dreams. After all, he is magical.
The Moar You Know
@Humdog: Long overdue that someone called her out on her divisive, stalkerish bullshit, so thanks. She’s the first regular I’ve thrown in the pie filter. I suspect she may not be the last in 2018.
@Barbara: A friend who is a retired psychiatric nurse tells me that often the more dire the person’s condition, the more urgently they assure you that they are not crazy. It is also not unknows for seriously ill persons to claim that the problem is that they are so much smarter and more perceptive than anyone else.
As my Russian friends like to quote Treasure Island: “Один стаканчик рома вас, конечно, не убьет.” (“One little glass of rum will of course not kill you”) I had to go back and read the novel to realize that the next line from a doctor is something like, “But the second one certainly will.”
I’m in moderation for using Cyrillic, once again. Here’s my comment with transliteration:
As my Russian friends like to quote Treasure Island: “Odin stakanchik roma vas, konechno, ne ub’et.” (“One little glass of rum will of course not kill you”) I had to go back and read the novel to realize that the next line from a doctor is something like, “But the second one certainly will.”
@Anne Laurie: Put that photo next to a shot of Reinhard Heydrich & tell me there’s no resemblance.
(Fortunately the resemblance doesn’t extend to competence. By all accounts I’ve seen, Heydrich was one murderously competent mofo. The only place “competent” appears in a description of Miller is as a character string embedded in “incompetent.”)
Trump doesn’t drink and look at him.
@Gelfling 545: I know this isn’t always the case, but the paradox and tragedy of mental pathologies of all kinds is that people who really need treatment are the least likely to seek it. For the holder of the distorted view, it’s just reality. It’s those around them who are typically much more aware of how abnormal or aberrant their behavior is. I am convinced that Trump is so dependent on his family members because they are suffering from what I would call familial Stockholm Syndrome — having grown up with his various bizarre and destructive behaviors, it’s their reality too, and they are among the least likely to push back or rebel or walk away from it. Non-relatives like Hope Hicks must have their own deep-seated need to be around power or stroke the ego of another human, and people like Sessions, Miller and Bannon clearly see Trump as a vehicle who can be used. And so, here we are.
@Brachiator: I don’t know their absolute numbers but they are in charge right now and that’s frightening.
Nice, getting told to fuck off when defending the blog from a repeated swipe. Ok, then.
ETA by pet issue, I meant a few military types spoke up for Kelly, and now the entire year blog is supporting Kelly and his racist actions.
@The Moar You Know: I agree. It is so very tiresome. I haven’t done the pie thingy yet. I try to avoid her comments. Today, I started several comments and backed off. I consider most of you nice acquaintances…almost friends. Why the need to troll people who are all on the same side? If you feel that way about us…painting the blog with such a broad brush for some comments that I think Adam made MONTHS AGO…go somewhere else to try to pick a fight….Thanks Humdog, too!
And they are both going to the very same place.
@Humdog: We cross posted. See above. Have a great day!
Kelly didn’t see anything wrong with separating PARENTS AND CHILDREN in DHS detention.
Told me everything I ever needed to know about him.
damn straight, the KKKeebler Elf knows.
@Barbara: Coincidentally, Stockholm Syndrome is the name of the latest Pod Save America podcast.
Of course, they are podcasting(?) it from Sweden, so that’s why. Nonetheless, they (former Obama staffers) are funny and have a lot of great guests.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Did he say, “I don’t drink… wine.”?
I gotta feeling lunatic Miller isn’t successful with getting dates and probably has never been able to get anyone to date him.
The Simp in the Suit
@clay: Miller’s behavior is straight out of the Nazi playbook. This is not an exaggeration. Hitler’s people would go into meetings with diplomats, businessmen, or with the press and aggressively say the same things over and over again. Didn’t matter who was on the receiving end or what the supposed topic was supposed to be. All such meetings were viewed as opportunities and all communication was one-way. They actually got real concessions out of diplomats using this strategy of bullying.
They got pretty far with this approach…
I guffawed :)
They have trouble admitting that a lot of people apparently admire mean-spirited, nasty assholes, but they DO. They must. Maybe the unusual result is when good people win. Maybe Trump IS the national character and every once in a while someone beats the odds and defies it and still wins. Possible, right?
@Humdog: There are times when I get a little annoyed at SC’s tone, but in the case of Kelly, her perception that his racism lined up with that of his boss was correct, and it was based on the gratuitous cruelty he brought to his role as the head of DHS, which was remarked on here, but not in a way that erased respect for his military position. A person who has encountered people like Kelly at his worst — because they are the “wrong” kind — is better able to look behind the public image of rectitude he cultivates and peg him accurately as a willing participant in xenophobia.
@rikyrah: I simply don’t remember a lot of Kelly cheerleaders here. Like Humdog I remember military types speaking about him…Adam, for sure. I think many were hoping having an adult in the room might restrain Trump and curb his impulses. I just don’t remember blind adoration of Kelly where this blog is concerned. It’s tiresome to be told that EVERYDAY. I’ve said my piece and I enjoy your posts, rikyrah. I do miss your little swimsuit emoticon. I guess you don’t swim in an indoor pool in the winter??
@Quinerly: No, BJers were never blind cheerleaders but many people gave him the benefit of the doubt.
ETA: This is my last comment on this topic. I am going to shut all Balloon Juice tabs. You are all wonderful people its me who doesn’t belong.
The Leader is Always Right
Bullshit we are.
@Quinerly: I am going to defend SC. We were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt even after he implemented a policy of separating parents and children at the border, which is basically monstrous when you realize what that means for children. I would bet money that he would never implement such a policy if these people were from western European countries. We were hoping he was better than his boss, not just organizationally, but morally and ethically, and SC was right — he isn’t.
@germy: [heart emojis]
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies
Farewell and adieu you ladies of Spain….
For we’ve received orders for to sail back to Boston
And so nevermore shall we see you again….
It took me like 589 viewings to FINALLY figure out why Quint sings that when he does. (Still, worth every viewing.)
@mezz: Wait, what??? I’m only up to 580 viewings so can you let me in on the secret :)
I didn’t say fuck off. I said, fuck you.
You didn’t defend the blog, which doesn’t really need defending. Folks here hold their own very well.
You seemed to want to belittle a poster and to “correct her.” Quite a few people here have issues that are important to them, and that they bring up time and again. But emphasis is not always hostility to others.
Went back and looked. That’s not what she said.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
History isn’t a Che T-Shirt and needs more than two colors to understand. Let me Introduce you to the Black Dragon Society.
Keep in mind this is in the context of 1941, right after the US navy was nearly annihilated in a surprise attack aided by Japanese spies poising as Japanese Americans.
May I be so bold as to suggest that duming down history into simple “good” and “evil” like it’s a fraking Star Wars movie is what the other does and makes them useless idiots?
@Barbara: I agree. I just don’t remember all this cheering for Kelly here. Yes, the MSM was in love with him. At one time, I really enjoyed SC’s comments. This business with Kelly and how she perceives a few on this blog has become very tiresome. I have started cringing when it starts. It’s like she wants someone to take her bait. It’s a form of trolling, in my opinion. And I just don’t get it. I have said way more than I wanted to on this. I DON’T COME TO BALLOON JUICE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.
Mike in NC
Stephen Miller worked for Senator Jeff Sessions, who was an early and vocal supporter of Trump for obvious reasons. Bannon supposedly considered casting Sessions as the white knight that Real America needed to save the country from Those People, but Sessions appears to be fairly low key in demeanor. Can’t see that old codger bringing the haters to their feet at the White Power rallies the way that Trump does with so little effort.
I don’t remember a lot of Kelly cheerleaders, but I remember people pooh-poohing SC’s and others’ fears about the immigration enforcement policies Kelly would implement, and unfortunately they all turned out to be right.
Kelly is a racist, xenophobic asshole who chose to deport soccer moms. That’s reality. If that reality is uncomfortable, that’s not SC’s fault.
Oh? Where do you usually go? /groucho
As I recall, most comments amounted to “He doesn’t seem outright insane, so why the hell is he taking this job?”
@schrodingers_cat: The Kelly stuff is just tiresome, day in and day out. We are all in this together. I thought he was trash when he took the job but if he manages to keep Trump from blowing up the world, I’ll even praise him for that. That’s how low some of us will go.
The issue was not whether she was right — clearly she was/is. The issue was whether everyone associated with this blog deserved to be broad-brushed as all of us loving (so to speak) Kelly. People not shouting endlessly about Kelly being a racist does not mean they were/are OK with him. Plenty of people here were hoping that he would be the “adult in the room,” but that doesn’t mean people thought he was aces.
It’s not an either/or situation.
Mike in NC
General Kelly seems to have disappeared off the radar screen of late. You cannot get to be a four star general by being openly racist; quite the contrary. But reading that Kelly came of age in South Boston in the 1960s told me all I needed to know, having worked there my senior year in high school. Anybody not Irish Catholic might as well have been wearing a bullseye on their backs.
@SFAW: Well said.
Fights are two blogs down, this is “Getting Hit on the Head” lessons.
That’s what I was thinking at first. Now I don’t think he’s going to make any difference on that.
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
So interning Japanese-Americans during WWII was A-OK because some Black Americans believed Japanese promises to give them the equality they didn’t have in Jim Crow America?
Yeah, I got that. I just decided to do it in Shitgibbon-voice, rather than Javanka-voice.
@different-church-lady: You and I must have been sitting together at the same time.
(and I used to go to my Book Faces page for fights with BS supporters but I unfriended them?)
She is angry that her friends and family are being affected by Trump’s and Kelly’s policies. Her family trips have been canceled because people are afraid they won’t be allowed into the US or will be unfairly detained once they arrive. Sometimes that anger spills over, but if it’s not about you, it’s not about you.
@Quinerly: Let me just say, I can’t stand piling on commenters — especially regulars — for any comment. If you want to refute what they are saying then refute it. If you think they are just going a little bit over the edge, say it. Circling the wagons over a blog seems — well, it seems like the antithesis of what a blog is for. I look at this as a safe space for people of a mostly congruent political view, but those views are hardly monolithic, and they should definitely include the views of people of color who have very good reason for feeling especially unsafe in the current political status quo. If that seems like too much of a burr in your bonnet from time to time, skip over those comments.
@Quinerly: Well, we appear to now have our answer — he thought he could bring competency to a racist administration.
@bystander: I’m late to the thread, but I don’t think that’s a “disclosure” so much as a “prediction”…. and one that he shouldn’t really have any way of knowing, if the indictments come from Mueller. And I refuse to believe that the Senate/House investigations amount to anything.
@Mnemosyne: Oh, I get it. I feel for her. It just has started to hit a big nerve with me….this broad brush shit because that IS NOT HOW IT HAS GONE DOWN HERE (not screaming, just frustrated). The general stuff over and over is so very tiresome. And now I am getting tired of typing “tiresome.” ?Everybody should just move on.
I am willing to bet that most of us on BJ were born citizens and don’t have the very personal fear of being piked up and deported by our government. Trump has broken so many laws and ignored so many norms that it’s not impossible to think that he will continue to do that, and worse.
SC is fighting hard for this country that most of us were born into, and I give her a lot of credit for that. I’ve got money that says ruemara doesn’t feel all that confident about her future, either, with the current regime’s attitude of “green cards, who cares if you have a green card?”
I don’t always agree with SC, but she has been a valuable member of our community and I for one would greatly hate seeing her go. Yesterday, even though I like Mnem, I thought i might strangle Mnem if she posted the same thing one more time – about how the NYT is so upset at being shown up by some lesser rag. But I thought it through and remembered that I have read that people who repeat the same story many times are doing so be3cause there is some response they are looking for or hoping for that they are not getting. I imagine SC would have liked to hear from some of the people who were determined to give Kelly a chance – just to hear people say, boy, you were ever right about him!
SC, get mad and go away for a few days if you have to, but please come back.
@Barbara: I have been. Sometimes people hit a limit. Some of us seemed to have hit it today….and all at the same time.
@Quinerly: @SFAW: I don’t feel broad brushed. And I don’t mind saying I might have been wrong, even though I don’t remember defending Kelly, I held out hope that I would translate into giving him the benefit of the doubt. Not that any of that would have made one iota of difference to what Kelly did or how he was used by Trump, but being willing to acknowledge that people who are much more likely to be on the receiving end of his bigotry might have an earlier and more accurate read of the man is part of actually listening to diverse voices in our midst.
Now you know how my husband feels! ?
Really, I was trying to catch the other journalists (or former journalists, in my case) so we could all unite in our glee. You’ll be happy to hear that I think I’ve managed to track them all down at this point.
It’s great that you can have a limit. People whose family and friends are being directly affected by these policies don’t have that luxury, unfortunately.
@WaterGirl: Yes to all of this. Thank you, you put in (excellent) words what I was thinking. SC became a citizen of this country AFTER Trump was “elected”…I think that shows a great deal of guts and dedication. I certainly didn’t see her as being “stalkerish” and if I find her or any commentor’s remarks too strident I pass them by.
My guess is Mueller is very careful about sequencing who he nabs and when. Holidays my guess ain’t got shit to do with it. I would love it (as an aside) if Nunes or one of the others blocking for Trump would get an indictment.
Sure, I’ll believe that, if “work non-stop” means having nothing else to do so you can casually drift in to Orange Daddius’s meetings and cover for his ignorance and dementia by chatting up the other people in the room about partying in the Hamptons.
Not nabbing people over the holidays just gave them extra time to sweat. ?
Adam’s breaking news post just up is a lot more interesting than continuing to play a broken record.
@Quinerly: Lashing out is almost always the wrong thing to do. SC did not personally insult anyone.
@Quinerly: I don’t think I am ever going to read your comments the same way again. Geez.
“Working non-stop” means you have the kind of job where you can pretend every activity is work. Meals and golf games get recast as business meetings. You have a chauffeur so you can surf the web while commuting and pretend it’s work. You pawn off taking care of your kids on the nanny and pretend it’s so you can get more work in and not because you’re too lazy and disconnected from your children’s lives to take care of them yourself. Even your hobbies are managed by the family foundation so you can pretend they’re part of your charity foundation “work”.
@Barbara: That’s fine. I probably won’t be posting much for awhile anyway…hitting the road to NM for 5 plus weeks. I’ll say this in closing. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for SC. Have enjoyed most of her posts. Just have failed to understand the daily harping on the blog’s support/love for Kelly and the generals. It’s simply not true. And some commenters here, now including me, have told her. I hope she comes back. As I said I really enjoy most of her posts. Have a great day!
J R in WV
I think the difference between sociopath and psychopath is that sociopaths are a little more controlled, aware of how real people act and trying to imitate them. Psychopaths not so much, maybe. Esp. in private with a victim.
@Quinerly: “You were right now shut up” is the tenor of many of these comments. Today, the DHS rescinded protection to 200,000 Salvadoran nationals who have been here for more than 15 years. 200,000 people. But the latest “more interesting post” concerns fewer than 10 white guys in Nevada. Have a great vacation.
Several of us have explained it to you. At this point, the question is why you still don’t get why a naturalized citizen whose family is afraid to travel here to visit her would be “obsessed” with Kelly’s ICE policies and what they say about him as a person.
That strikes me as rather expansive definition of trolling. But YMMV.
The Cat, to me, seems within normal bounds of communication. And Kelly is a white supremacist when judged by deeds and speech.
@Mnemosyne: I hadn’t seen any more of those from you after Baud replied with something like “good point”. I figure once you saw that, you’d be good. :-)
@Mnemosyne: It’s not what she is personally worried about it. I get it. Several people have explained here what the problem is…the constant accusations about the blog having been pro Kelly and the generals. Like I said and several before me said….it’s simply not true. And yes, it is tiresome to be accused of it everyday. And no, no one has accused me personally but there is a constant theme in SC’s comments that many/most were cheerleaders. As I said earlier, we are all in this together…why keep accusing the blog of that? It doesn’t further any discussions day in and day out, it doesn’t add anything.. Not to mention it’s simply not true. #tiresome; #ihaznotwitter?
I’ve seen lots of drunks and a couple of times it was in a mirror as well. And while I’d agree with you that he looks like someone who is drunk all the time, it is possible that he has other issues and that he doesn’t drink. Unlikely, yes, but possible.
Now on the the book and his answer to the offer of a glass of wine. I rarely drank wine, just didn’t care for it and red wine gives me migraines so when I was drinking, if you asked me if I wanted a glass of red wine, I could easily say “I don’t drink (red wine)” and be stating the truth. I would have taken a whiskey rocks though.
Side note. He does strike me as a heavy vodka drinker
@Barbara: I didn’t say shut up about the DHS. That’s a productive conversation that I can certainly learn something from. I said stop with accusing the blog with a broad brush of being pro Kelly and pro generals. There’s an obvious difference.
Holy shit, that’s awful. They really don’t see brown people as any more than a nuisance. It’s shocking in its cruelty.
@DissidentFish: I’ll apologize. Strong term.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ruckus: a couple of weeks ago, there was a round of drunk Bannon jokes going around the twitter and Benjy Sarlin, IIRC, tweeted out that Bannon actually doesn’t drink, a a couple of other reporters confirmed it. I have no idea, but if you’re looking for evidence that people can be broke-brained assholes without booze, there is trump. Also, Orrin Hatch, Jason Chaffetz, Jeff Flake, Mike Lee….
@Quinerly: Why is it up to you to tell anyone to stop saying anything?
Just to be clear, you don’t want to hear about immigration issues in a thread about Stephen Miller, the guy who wrote the Executive Order rescinding people’s green cards that General Kelly enthusiastically enforced.
When, exactly, are those things supposed to come up if they’re not supposed to come up in a thread about the guy who wrote the damn thing?
Vodka drinkers are convinced that vodka is odorless so no one will be able to smell it on them. They are wrong.
@Mnemosyne: That’s not what I said…not what Humdog said, not what the other commenter said when this started. Might be a good idea to read or reread the comments.
J R in WV
When Kelly was a top general officer, he was in a structure that in theory specifically disallowed any display of racism or prejudice, that was based upon productive work being done by individuals. So in order to do well, Kelly had to be publicly supportive of that part of the architecture of military organization. And he was, or he wouldn’t have been promoted to 4-star general officer rank.
After leaving that formal architecture and going to work for a self-proclaimed racist (president* Dump) many hoped that his history of adhering to the military requirement of being non-racist meant that he would be a positive influence on the current government. This turned out to be very much not the case.
He is still in a position where he may be (MAY be) able to prevent Dump from unleashing nuclear weapons just because he can. I would hope that Kelly’s willingness to implement racist immigration policies would not mean that he is willing to help commit war crimes and mass murder on a scale unseen in this century. Both are despicable things to do, but the range between the level of evil there is pretty large, to me.
But I am often an optimist even when there is little to no evidence of any reason for optimism. I would like to think that very few general officers would be unwilling to stop a huge war crime about to happen. I could be wrong, I have seen officers that acted (pretended to be?) empathic commit official actions that were in line with a general policy, regardless of what empathy would say about a specific situation. Even use patently false justifications for those actions.
So maybe not, also too.
Schrodingers_cat, please come home. We miss you!
Everyone has their pet issues and some of those issues are far more than just pet issues. They are things that directly affect the person. And over the last 14 months we have been inundated with crap that affects all of us, some in ways we don’t know about yet and some in ways that are direct and horrifying. SC went and got her citizenship then. She wants to stay, she might not be able to, if the shitgibbon has anything to say about it. I talk about the VA all the time because it is vital to me now, losing that would break me. We all discuss things that are important to us, especially now in this time where so much is uncertain. If it were only this one guy we might not be so worried but it’s not. It’s this one guy, his minions of stupidity and hate, congress and the 60 million people who voted for him. This country is barely civilized as it is and now it’s trying really hard to become worse.
I appreciate that we are a widely diverse group, we have immigrants of several shades, blacks from many walks of life, outspoken women, a few rather young folks old white guys (that’s my hand up), and yes a few assholes, and I’m sure we could categorize a lot more of us. We for the most part get along, because we have common cause. I’m more than willing to put up with a few proclivities to have such a group of jackals to be a part of. Let’s not start tearing each other down for any reason. We need people with different points of view to be included. We need to listen to them rather than block them off. I used to pie a lot of people but the filter decided to stop working for me an low and behold my BP has remained stable, my mood hasn’t gotten worse and I still check out this place as often as life lets me.
Why? Because of the diverse views, points of interest and just general all around jackalness of all of us.
@Quinerly: Here was SC’s response to Humdog:
It seems to me that you are reacting out of all proportion to SC’s alleged “offense” and overstating her supposed breach of standards.
@Barbara: It isn’t. I was actually agreeing with a couple of other commenters about the broad brush SC uses when accusing the blog of being pro Kelly and the generals. It’s tiresome (there I go!) to be accused daily of being part of a community that cheerleaded for Kelly (and the generals). It’s simply not true. As an aside, several weeks on a dying thread I gave SC a gentle nudge on this subject. Told her I loved her comments but why did she have to almost daily accuse the blog of having loved Kelly. What was her basis other than some comments that I think Adam made months ago? The thread was probably totally dead. Didn’t get a return comment.
You said that you don’t want to hear anymore that some people at Balloon-Juice were hopeful that Kelly would be a restraining influence on Trump even after Kelly enforced the executive order that Miller wrote.
It’s not a random coincidence that SC brought that up again in a thread about Stephen Miller.
@Mike in NC: “Old codger” Sessions is actually six months younger than Trump.
@Barbara: I read the entire thread. I know what was said and what has been said in the past.
Telling a naturalized citizen who has family and friends whose immigration status is now in question thanks to Miller and Kelly that her anger about that is a mere “pet issue” is … ???
@Quinerly: Because maybe giving Kelly the “benefit of the doubt” did strike her as “cheerleading” — assuming the white guy with the sense of duty would save the day and being willing to overlook some pretty damaging actions to immigrants along the way. If it doesn’t apply to you then it wasn’t about you. I never read any of those comments as being about me and I don’t think she can be viewed as tarring everyone here. IMHO, you are overreacting and I wouldn’t care except that you are effectively shutting someone else down, whether you acknowledge that or not. You are trying to curtail what SC should say based on what I view as an overly sensitive interpretation of SC’s prior comments.
@Mnemosyne: Carry on! I’m retired. Have things to attend to today.? I hope SC comes back. I enjoy most of her comments….just not the tiresome broken record about the blog supporting Kelly. And, yes, I am worried about her family. Have expressed it here and to her.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Hence the first graph of my comment.
I’m saying he looks like a drunk, not that he is one. In the navy we had an E6 who was the nicest fellow you’d ever met. Worked hard, good to his men, well liked. Then we were out to sea for a few weeks. He sobered up. He became a fucking asshole. If you looked in Websters for fucking asshole, there was his picture. People were looking for hidden bottles to find and leave for him, just so we didn’t have to live with this asshole. He was the very picture of someone who didn’t drink, clear eyes, no alcohol smell, clothes never looked slept in, he never looked hung over. And believe me, in the navy you very early on learn what drunk or hung over looks like in others. You get lots of experience. Lots. Ane yet anyone can fool others. Anyone can have health issues that look like something else. But as they say in the medical field, don’t look for zebras, when you hear hoofbeats. Not that it’s not possible to be zebras, but it’s very unlikely. IOW he could just be a pig, he could have medical issues, he could be a drunk who doesn’t want anyone to know, he could be an asshole….. Any and all of this is possible.
@Mnemosyne: Hey there, I am the one who said pet issue. I clarified that I meant specifically that the blog loves them some Kelly.
Not saying whatsoever that immigration issues are not awful now and that anyone should shut up about it. SC has brought insight and perspective on those issues that are both valuable and missing from the blog mostly. My problem was solely her repeatedly claiming we here approve of Kelly.
ETA I truly hope she does not stop posting because of this.
@Mnemosyne: Most of us can’t imagine what that would be like and our response is usually inadequate.
@Barbara: Come on! Saying anything critical about a post is shutting them down? Like you are shutting Quinerly down? Come on, really.
That’s called trying to set the terms of the discussion based on what you want to and don’t want to hear. And nothing prevents you from saying, “I don’t remember it that way and that’s all I have to say.” Or just moving on and ignoring the comment altogether. Nothing at all.
The Moar You Know
@Quinerly: You need to, because you got wrapped around the axle in this thread and haven’t come out looking real good. If you ignore Adam’s stalker (who got a direct ban warning from him before she backed the fuck off) and the white knight brigade, you’ll come out looking better.
People who bleat stupid shit and get ignored stop doing it after a while. This is the power of the pie filter. It’s a great thing.
@germy: If the city sent letters to the people telling them not to feed the turkeys, because the mail carriers can’t deliver the mail to them because of the turkeys, then HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GET THE LETTERS?
SC is still pissed that Kelly got any level of “wait and see” here, and I can’t really blame her. Given that Stephen Miller wrote the EO that Kelly enforced, that’s why it flared up again.
When you call immigration a “pet issue,” it comes across as condescending and dismissive. You may have meant it to apply specifically to Kelly having gotten the benefit of the doubt here for far too long (i.e. a nanosecond), but that’s not how it came across.
That’s not really a fair thing to say. Both SC and I are in the same boat in this. The only thing I have for a citizenship is a piece of paper. You want people who are constantly harping about this issue. It’s important. I don’t do it that much but that’s because I don’t bother writing words… I get out there and I start getting involved. I already assume most of you will vote Democratic. So, for me what’s important is getting the right candidates out there that care about this particular issue. eg. I’m not wasting time with you people, I’m going after the people who actually will have power. :D
@The Moar You Know: I guess this is the end of Baud/Poco2020!?
I haz a Sad!?
Looks like Baud/Humdog2020! isn’t a possibility either.?
@cain: Hi there! I would ask that you read all my comments. One specific issue. Very obvious and it shouldn’t continue to be twisted.
I didn’t want my comment to be specifically about you, it was just a general comment to the peanut gallery.
@cain: I think I can agree with what you’re saying here. What isn’t necessary (and what I think Quinerly and others were annoyed about) is that SC keeps attacking this community for being “pro Kelly” when it wasn’t. The closest you’ve got is that Adam (who is an expert in the field) thought that many of Kelly’s actions were explainable by wanting to stay in the position and protect against Trump, or that he’s essentially following a military chain of command and isn’t questioning orders.
I believe Adam has since stated he does not believe this to be the case. But it’s worth noting that up until he came into the Administration, Kelly was professional and exactly the sort of person that you’d (in theory) serving as a check to an insane and bigoted president. He deserved *some* level of wait and see… and now that we’ve seen, we’re all pretty firmly on the same page.
Yelling about this on the blog constantly feels like talking to my BernieBro friends, who after one of Trump’s latest atrocities like to talk about how “Bernie wouldn’t have done this and should have been our nominee.” I mean… he obviously wouldn’t have done it, and we can disagree vociferously about the second part. But why attack and piss off your friends?
@Mnemosyne: I think it is unfair to say the Kelly blog-love comment came up again today due to the Miller connection. The accusation seems to be pretty much a daily occurrence.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
It seems to go like this (I’ll use a fresh analogous example).
Person 1: Hey, I get tired of hearing how all straight white men are terrible.
Person 2: Well, most or many are, so shut up.
1: I’m a good person and ally. Can’t I offer an opinion?
2: Now is your time to shut up and listen.
1: I’ve been listening and contributing in an effective and compassionate way!
2: Well, if you’re one of the good one, then you should know “Fuck straight white guys to hell!” doesn’t refer to you.
1: Do I still have to shut up?
2: OMG, what a snowflake!
Person 1 forgets that privilege is a real thing and that rage “on the other side” is real and necessary.
Person 2 forgets that nuance is not a terrible thing.
@MisterForkbeard: Since SC is in self-imposed exile, I think the answer is that the willingness to wait and see overlooked the extreme gusto and gratuitous cruelty with which Kelly implemented the EO. While the policy is Trump’s the method by which it was enforced was largely through steps adopted by DHS and specifically Kelly. It drove SC crazy that some could not bring themselves to personalize that policy to Kelly when he became COS. That probably includes me. Like I said above, nothing we say and think here makes an iota of difference to Trump or Kelly or what policies they pursue. But SC gave us early insight into Kelly’s essential nature that we might have taken more seriously and it probably exemplifies other ways we hope against the experience of minorities that public officials aren’t really as racist as they actually are. I am growing more dour by the day.
The Moar You Know
@Barbara: But that’s not what happened.
I don’t think one person here thought Kelly was going to become a decent person when he took the COS job, because he’s not. He certainly wasn’t going to mitigate Trump’s vicious side. I think what most of us were hoping for was that Kelly would at least curb the worst of Trump’s utter disregard for the law (jury is still out on that one) and more importantly might serve as a last-ditch defense against Trump nuking Los Angeles in a fit of pique (jury is still out on that one too).
Non-whites in America are fucked and at serious risk while Trump is in the Oval Office no matter who surrounds him. Nothing is going to change that. And everyone here understood that long before he got elected. I understand the rage of SC and others who are at risk. But the solution is not to take it out on people who agree with you.
The sad truth is that there is nothing that can be done to keep folks at risk out of harm’s way until November of 2020. And that’s something that a lot of people do not want to accept. I don’t blame them, but that’s the reality of the situation.
@MisterForkbeard: @The Moar You Know: Well put. Several comments up I said I thought Kelly was trash from the get go. He got no worship from me on this blog…nor do I think it’s a good idea for a low IQ president to surround himself with generals. I don’t know of a soul here who thought Kelly was going to be a savior 6 months ago. It seems to me that the overwhelming consensus here is anybody who would take a job with Trump is racist trash. Everything Trump touches turns to shit.
@The Moar You Know: You don’t get to define how others see you and interpret what you say. Individual perception is not wrong because it doesn’t conform to the light in which you see yourself. That goes for us personally as well as collectively.