One of the things I intend to post more about as we approach the election (or anytime, actually) is the disinformation that’s being distributed on social media. I’ve hesitated with some of the recent allegations because they are loaded against liberals. Not about where all the Nazis and harassers of women are coming from on Twitter, no, but an Iranian scheme to make people think more favorably about Iran. I’m not gonna post links because I don’t think it’s in the top 300 major information operations on social media. Why did Microsoft (or was it Facebook?) choose to focus on this one? My tentative answer is that the Silicon Valley bros still don’t see the right wing as a problem. They have been meeting with conservatives, who have been whining, along with the whiner-in-chief, that Important Voices Are Being Silenced.
But yes, we should know that Iran has been doing that. Today’s news brings another operation that also seems small but appeals more to me politically. Bots, probably Russian, have been pushing the vaccine truther line. You don’t need to be vaccinated, we’d love to see a measles epidemic in the US to damage your children. There is a measles epidemic in Europe right now, due to low vaccination rates.
I won’t pretend to understand ALL of their motivations, but there are a few trends here. 1) Infiltrating and cultivating online activism. 2) Fostering an epistemology that “questions more”—questioning experts in science, journalists, etc.
— Kate Starbird (@katestarbird) August 24, 2018
They also push a specific epistemology (way of thinking) that encourages people to be skeptical of experts (or “elites” in their terms) in science & media. This way of thinking serves to bridge different conversations—from anti-vaccine to 9-11 trutherism to flat earth theory.
— Kate Starbird (@katestarbird) August 24, 2018
And here’s Zooey relaxing. We all need to do more of that.
Mary G
Aww, Zooey does look peaceful.
I have a strong suspicion that a lot of the tech millionaires and billionaires are secretly rooting for Republicans, because they get to keep more of their money, but are too smart to come right out and admit it. Jack Dorsey’s claim that Twitter is left-leaning is ludicrous.
Major Major Major Major
See also the men’s-rights-activist-to-Nazi pipeline.
grrljock
A bit OT, but I first “knew” Kate Starbird (not personally, of course) as a star basketball player at Stanford. I was delighted when I saw her tweets as Dr. Starbird–something about that progression is so cool.
Cheryl Rofer
And just after I posted, Trump tweets that he’s not sending Mike Pompeo to North Korea because he’s not satisfied with progress toward the denuclearization that Kim never promised. I’m gonna get some lunch now and then maybe I’ll try to decipher what he said.
Chip Daniels
IMO the people who seem most susceptible to trollery are those who favor ” enemy of my enemy is my friend” simplicity.
Mary G
Interesting thread about how National Enquirer abruptly shut down all coverage of Twitler right after the search warrants were executed on Cohen.
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Trump is looking for a diversion. Fox news will call him a strong leader, even if it took him months to recognize that Kim Jong-un lied.
Ladyraxterinok
Raising questions is, IMHO, positive. BUT you have to be willing to listen to the answers and the resulting discussion.
AND you have to have enough knowledge about the subject and field to pose intelligent questions and comprehend the answers. That’s the primary problem .with those questioning science experts’ knowledge and competance. The questioners’ science background usually consists at best of 1 or 2 dimly remembered high school general science classes. So they rely on their trusted informants at Fox, et al.
debit
In case anyone is wondering how Merrill the new cat is fitting in, the answer is so-so. She is a love bug and wants to be with people, is curious about the other cats, will play paw wars under a closed door with Dani, but when we try to have in the same room interaction either she or the other cat gets defensive, hisses and hides. At that point we separate and go back to opposite sides of the gate interaction only, where they sit there and stare at each other all day.
JR
Antivaxxers are the enemy.
Having children has hardened me against them.
Mary G
@debit: Have you consulted WereBear?
Brachiator
I think that the techno-libertarians see themselves as above conventional politics. Maybe they think that they can “disrupt” the right wing the way technology has disrupted other areas.
In some of the debate over net neutrality, for example, a common theme in the tech world was that Congress simply didn’t understand the issue. But the tech heads didn’t think it was worth their time to try to educate Congress about it. Childishly, they just wanted the government to leave them alone and let them play.
Infants with lots of money.
@Mary G: I think you are right that some of the tech people root for Republicans, at least the tax cuts. Apple, Google and other companies had no problems with taking advantage of tax laws and parking billions of profits off shore.
One the other hand, Steve Jobs seemed relatively indifferent to hoarding wealth. Bill Gates is giving a lot of his money away. And I personally know some tech millionaires who don’t care at all about their wealth and who quit their jobs and are looking for other ways to make a difference in the world.
debit
@Mary G: Well, it’s only been a week, so I’m not too worried, but if she sees this and wants to comment, I would love her input.
Mary G
Hey NotMax and TP: help is on the way!
Who believes these people?
Gelfling 545
@Cheryl Rofer: Best to be well nourished, hydrated and sitting comfortably before trying to decipher Trumpian pronouncements.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer:
Then I assume you’ll be having more than a few drinks with lunch.
Brachiator
OT, but related A commenter recently noted that the US might be able to junk Trump and Pence if we had a parliamentary system. Maybe. But what just happened in Australia indicates how political games can still take place under parliamentary systems. From the BBC.
I guess it’s nice to know that political craziness is going on all over the world.
Links
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45292637
NotMax
@Mary G
Flabbergasted.
Chyron HR
@Brachiator:
Serves him right, he was terrible as Doctor Who.
Hungry Joe
Neologism of the day (week? month? eon?) is “Embussen” — to throw someone under the bus. Coined by Doktor Zoom, on Wonkette: Duncan Hunter “embussened his wife.”
Betty Cracker
Maybe instead of dumping hundreds of billions on F-35s, ballistic missiles, submarines, etc., the US should create a cyber-army of genius meme-makers with foreign language skills. ?
?BillinGlendaleCA
On my little urban adventure yesterday, I came across this building. Anyone want to guess the company that does business there?
Mart
After a historic hours long battle, I killed a Youmail app and went back to the phone carriers simple voicemail. Yeesh. I cannot wait to try this when I get to eighty years old.
J R in WV
I’m against restrictions on the First Amendment’s right of free speech.
BUT! When provable lies cause people to die, the liars involved are responsible for those deaths, and should be prosecuted for the outcome of their falsehoods.
In other words, if YOU cause a parent to fail to immunize children, everyone who comes down with an illness caused by the lack of herd immunity should be able to take a big bite out of your personal ass. Either in funds or in jail time, or ideally, both.
And the children of parents who succumb to the propaganda and falsehoods, they should be able to take a personal bite out of their parent’s butts as well. How to make that work, I dunno.
That’s why I’ve never run for legislative office. I took too close and long a look at how legislation is made at the small state level. Yuck! Sausage making is much cleaner.
NotMax
@Hungry Joe
Good try, but one s too many. As in busing, needs the single s in order to differentiate it from buss, meaning kiss.
Embussened too easily interpreted to mean showered with kisses.
/pedant
Mart
@?BillinGlendaleCA: too easy to figure out on the GOOGLE…
Brachiator
@JR:
The Pasadena (CA) Weekly had a “back to school” insert that was compiled and edited by the main Weekly staff.
The Weekly itself leans left, sometimes falling into Bernie bro land. And yet one of the back to school articles was crazy anti vaccines. Just bonkers. And the way they tried to slip this garbage in along with more innocent information was infuriating.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mart: Yeah, the Google would probably make it easy to find.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Cheryl Rofer: Trying to decipher something Trump said is a good way to hurt yourself. Careful.
NotMax
@BillinGlendaleCA
Zeiss?
Or headquarters of Peeping Toms Anonymous.
rikyrah
Zooey has the right idea. :)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: Your second guess would be more on target.
Bg
Didn’t Jill Stein suck up to anti-vaxxers during her campaign?
Was that before or after her big dinner with Putin and Flynn?
Mart
@NotMax: As Bill said, Peeping Tom’s Anonymous is a excellent synonym for the company.
Major Major Major Major
@Bg: tbh it shouldn’t be too surprising that a Green Party leader would suck up to anti-vaxxers
Haroldo
@Brachiator: This strikes me as a typically anodyne piece of BBC reporting. What occurred, imo, was a non-successful ultra-right wing coup, albeit one well within the rules. And a coup attempt that was, and will continue to be, fueled by an unrelenting right wing Australian press, TV, and radio, an MO we are all too familiar with
P.S. The new Prime Minister is being passed off as a ‘moderate’ conservative. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Kay
I’m still amazed sometimes that this pack of criminals actually ran on locking other people up.
We may need to build more white collar criminal detention centers. I bet they could be rehabilitated and start contributing to society again. We’ll treat them a heck of a lot more humanely than they treated blue collar criminals, so they should be grateful. I think they should have libraries and vocational training and nutritious food! A garden? Sure!
They could have to live in the prison system they designed, which is a fucking horror show.
chris
Haven’t seen this mentioned, yer preznit is an anti-vaxxer. Perhaps the Russians are just supporting their guy.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Isn’t this both fucking evil and stupid? What are vaccination rates in Russia?
wjs
It is NOT an accident that your Facebook feed is now full of videos from CRTV. The so-called update for Facebook has not eliminated any of the right wing propaganda because FB is not interested in fixing what is broken.
zhena gogolia
@debit:
Honestly, that sounds like pretty good progress for this length of time.
Calouste
@NotMax: Also “em” means “in”, not “under”, that’s “sub”. So what we are really talking about is subbusing.
So the verb is to subbus, and someone who is tempting to throw someone under the bus is a subbusbus :)
Brachiator
Unexpected consequence of the recent change of leadership in Australia.
The change in Australia prime minister will probably confuse Trump, too. He won’t know who to send the Tweet messages to.
More seriously, this adds another layer of complexity to Australia’s role as an ally in that region.
Cheryl Rofer
Trump and North Korea –
Pompeo was preparing to go to North Korea, even appointed a bona fide foreign policy expert, Stephen Biegun, as special representative to North Korea. Biegun is not a Korea specialist, but he knows foreign policy, particularly Europe and Russia, which is a step up from the usual Trumpian appointments.
Probably someone told Trump what the rest of the world knows, that North Korea is not destroying their nuclear program nor shipping their nukes to the United States (or anywhere else, unless they’re on missiles) and got throught to him. This is probably hard for Trump to understand, because he had that glitzy meeting with Kim, and they shook hands on it. Or on something that he understood meant they were giving up the program.
The problem could not possibly lie in Trump’s understanding of the situation (they shook hands, like manly men!), so it must be China. A number of folks in the administration would like to blame China. Trump blows hot and cold on them, but currently he is locked in a trade war (good and easy to win!), so they must be the bad guys.
It might be fun to have another summit to distract from all those witch-hunting trials!
thruppence
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I recognize it as one of Frank Gehry’s earlier works – no idea who is occupying it now…
JPL
@chris: Trump said that he felt it caused autism.
debit
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, I’m hopeful that it only gets better, Two of the cats are totally nonchalant about Merrill; she’s the one who hisses and hides. Dani is always desperate to get in the room with her, then once there hisses and hides while Merrill just looks confused. And once Oscar realized there was a strange cat in the house he’s refused to leave the basement. Sigh. Baby steps.
Calouste
@wjs: It’s not broken from Facebook’s point of view. They’ve learned from Fox that people get addicted to right-wing propaganda, and every time they come to FB to get their fix, FB gets advertising dollars.
JPL
@thruppence: I googled.
Cheryl Rofer
This is a reasonable hypothesis. (BTW, if you are on Twitter, Narang is one of the people you should follow on these issues.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@thruppence: You’re correct it’s a Gehry, but built in 2011. I don’t think that qualify as an earlier work(I think the Disney Hall is older).
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator:
Doesn’t “yet” imply a contrast? A lot of the crunchy-granola people have always been susceptible to “woo” about THE CORPORATIONS making people ingest unnatural chemicals when instead they could be wearing a crystal or breathing through their feet or some shit like that. And aging hippies are one of the larger segments among the Bernie-worshipers.
Chyron HR
@Cheryl Rofer:
They’re applying the best pressure to NK they have: Mike Pompeo will not deliver Kim’s signed copy of Madman Across the Water Special Edition (with the Extended Mix of Razor Face).
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: I think you noted that they had an agreement on denucleariztion, they just had a different understanding on what the term implies.
(IOW, there was no agreement.)
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Is there a way to see all of the Clementine Cockwomble’s tweets without actually going to his Twitter feed? I’m not actually on Twitter so I just look at tweets online. I don’t want to give him even one click, but curiosity often gets the better of me. Or does it not matter? I’m guessing both questions have been asked before, so, sorry.
Dan B
Seattle has been engulfed in toxic wildfire smoke off and on for two weeks. It’s even worse in the eastern half of the state. For every comment about global warming drying and heat stressing the forests tgere have been three memes about the “government” policies that suppressed fires and caused fuel loading. Oh, and in rhetorical flourishes worthy of a Kellyanne Award they state that they believe in global warming. Fuel loading has contributed but fire suppression policies changed decades ago. Naturally caused fires yhat don’t threaten property or lives have been allowed to burn. The Forest Service has spent resources on clearing underbrush. But funds for these efforts keep getting pinched by guess-who?
It’s a distraction from the big issue staring us in the face, or as the case us in the PNW, clouding the skies and choking us. It devolves into a debate about causation instead of a call for individual and regional solutions.
There are solutions but there are drawbacks to each set, equity being a big one. These need to be discussed so that we can come together as a community and proceed to solutions.
Mnemosyne
So the countdown to my ACL surgery starts today — I go under the knife in exactly one week. I realize I’m being a giant baby about this and other people on this very website have had to deal with much worse medical situations, but I am really dreading the whole thing. Ugh. ?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@JPL:
A buck – hell, $1.3 trillion – says he has absolutely no idea what autism is and could not provide even the vaguest approximation of a definition.
Leto
Dutch gov’t looking into letting daycares refuse non-vaccinated kids
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yes. To bring everyone up to date, the North Koreans have always used the word “denuclearization” to indicate that they will give up their nuclear weapons after there is a peace treaty for the Korean Peninsula, the United States withdraws its troops from South Korea, and the rest of the world gives up their nuclear weapons. Trump and his buddies seem to have taken it to mean that Kim will give up all his nuclear weapons and destroy the facilities that make them, ASAP.
chris
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: here you go.
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@chris: Thank you! I think.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Yeah, there was a lot of Big Pharma BS in the anti vaxx article. But this was the first time that the Weekly had jumped so deeply into the lunatic end of the pool. Someone had previously suppressed the editorial expression of woo.
ETA. One of the reasons I dislike Whole Foods Market, where a lot of upscale crunchy people shop, is that they regularly stock homeopathic products. Woo hoo.
smintheus
This morning I got a bizarre disinformation sheet from my own university. It purported to be a guide to how a variety of academic disciplinary hearings have been handled in the past, with a description of specific circumstances and the sanctions imposed on students. Two of the cases had been my own students. One from a few years ago was described accurately. But another one from this spring was turned inside out. The circumstances matched my own bizarre case, but the university claimed that the students were sanctioned severely for the cheating. The reality was the opposite: the disciplinary board had actually found all of them not guilty because I had not stated explicitly on my syllabus that copying other students’ answers (verbatim!) on take-home exams was prohibited.
I had told the students orally that they could not work together, but the students contested that – so naturally the board pretended that their evolving series of flimsy lies obliged it to find the students not guilty. And now the university is pretending that its history of handling cheating cases of this exact type is the opposite of what it did in mine. The official write-up doesn’t even pretend that faculty are in any way obliged to warn students that they cannot plagiarize on take home exams; it is supposedly just university policy to sanction such plagiarism automatically.
The epidemic of lies and blatant misinformation is everywhere these days.
zhena gogolia
@Mnemosyne:
You’re not being a baby. Any surgery is scary. But it should be fine (easy for me to say)!
Major Major Major Major
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: also, nobody ‘gets a click’ when you visit their profile (although twitter does display ads).
Mart
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Wiki says: “Built between 1991 and 2001 for advertising agency Chiat/Day (now TBWA\Chiat\Day) as its West Coast corporate headquarters, it was designed by Los Angeles architect Frank Gehry, and was his last project in Los Angeles until the Walt Disney Concert Hall began construction in 1999.”
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Good luck with the surgery. I’m sure that all will be fine.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Major Major Major Major: Huh. Learned something. Thanks! But of course, I also just don’t want to get gooey orange slime on my keyboard and screen, and that totally would happen, right?
trollhattan
@Mary G:
Literally sounds like a movie plot hatched by two fourth-grade boys during recess.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: you’ll do great!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mart: I think there are two different build dates on the building, there’s a brick portion on the left and the binoculars and the more eclectic portion on the right. The left may be early Gehry, the right portion may be later Gehry.
trollhattan
@Dan B:
We haven’t been without smoke for more than a month in the Sac Valley and depending on circulation it varies from being overhead to hugging the ground and driving the AQI towards the 200 mark.
Watched the Portland Thorns home game the other night and the air looked horrid, while it was hotter than we were in Sac. They and Seattle have been taking two “hydration and oxygen” breaks per half.
The new normal sucks donkey balls.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Good luck with your surgery.
(OT, but somewhat related since the kid’s a surgical nurse, she and her mom are out car shopping for a new car for the kid. Her old car was starting to have engine problems and the estimate was 4K, so new car.)
debit
@Mnemosyne: You’ve been in pain and dealing with this for a long time now. It’s no wonder you’re a little apprehensive. Take care of yourself beforehand, don’t beat yourself up.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
New Aussie PM sounds like a balls-to-the-wall douche and bigly supporter of coal electricity. Eevidently Turnbull’s ouster was partly orchestrated by Murdoch. Does any of this sound familiar?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: When I was up in SacTown last month, I was told by the local jackals how bad the air quality was. I reminded them I was from LA.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: I guess it will give a new market for out coal.
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
Yep. Murdoch and other oligarchs have interests everywhere.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
But they’re putting me back on the devil’s legs! ?
joel hanes
They cultivate online activism communities, become part of them, and then work to bridge those communities into other topics that serve their strategic interests.
And they’re not alone in this; the Rs have been at it for a while.
Just yesterday I peeked into Mahablog, which I used to enjoy.
The front pager, a disappointed Wilmer supporter who’s still bitter, said that although it might be true that Sec. Clinton had never been indicted for anything, the FPer would not be surprised to learn that indictable offenses have been covered up, and that Sec. Clinton is part and parcel of the culture of corruption in DC, just as Collins and Hunter and Menendez are.
I believe that the “crooked Hillary” conviction on the left was purposely implanted and stoked by the kind of ratfucking discussed in this thread, with the Rs and the Russians operating in at different times, in different media, over different timescales, but with the same objective.
And it worked.
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
My boss’s flight into SFO got cancelled because of the smoke and she had to switch to OAK.
Sister Golden Bear
Since I have to spend three hours a day doing post-surgical aftercare, I was planning to work way through the entire “Xena” series as a distraction while dilating.
But Permanent Infrastructure Week and the BJ jackaltariat are proving far more entertaining.
(Haven’t commented more because it’s tough to do one-handed typing.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I have a spare walker.
Litlebritdifrnt
As I posted downstairs my husband’s petition to remain in the UK was denied, due to the act that apparently we should have applied when he was outside of the UK. They said that in every other respect he was eligible, but basically we filled out the wrong damn form. I really wish they had told us that before we had spent almost 4,000 pounds to get to this point.
J R in WV
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Peeping Tom Pr0n company? for the laughs ;-) !
Bushnell optics? more seriously? Now I’ll read the thread between your clue and my answers…
O. Felix Culpa
Love Zooey! That is all.
Mary G
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oh, no! That is awful Now what? Do you have to fill out the different form or will they just deport him?
clay
@Cheryl Rofer: @Cheryl Rofer:
This was literally just two days ago:
So what happened within the last two days to turn China from “a big help on North Korea” to “I do not believe they are helping”?
Mike in NC
Best wishes to people in Hawaii. Hopefully there will not be significant damage/casualties. Just keep in mind that (1) Hawaii is a group of islands in the middle of the ocean, very hard to reach with the very limited resources of the federal government, and (2) Trump isn’t convinced that people who live on islands can be American citizens.
Uncle Cosmo
@JPL:
Which Orangecandyass probab ly thinks is the excessive love of cars. And since he doesn’t own a car manufactturer or an oil company or even a chain of JiffyLubes, he’s not making any $$$ from it, so hey, fuck it!
MomSense
@Sister Golden Bear:
Hey you. I’ve been thinking of you and hoping your healing is going well.
Sometimes when I stop and run through the list of trump scandals, I cannot believe this is really happening. It’s like a waterfall of fantastical scandal.
Mnemosyne
@Litlebritdifrnt:
And they won’t let you just … fill out the right form?
Can you contact your MP for help, or is it time to notify your veterans’ network?
Brachiator
In reading about the political craziness in Australia, I ran across this observation.
Gives Trump a level of incompetence to strive for.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike in NC: manhattan excepted of course.
J R in WV
@J R in WV:
Is it still an ad agency? or what? Did I just skip over the daily jackpot answer??? HELP!!!
PaulWartenberg
There are news reports about John McCain refusing further medication for his cancer treatments, which is usually a big neon sign that he’s about ready to wrap it up.
I have mixed feels. On the one hand I cannot forgive many of the sins he committed as a Republican Party leader, and for the missed opportunities for bravery when we needed someone to stand up against the Shitgibbon-in-Chief.
But there was a time I was a Republican Party voter. And in 2000 I supported McCain because I genuinely believed he was a better choice than Dubya (and there are days I am convinced that if we had McCain instead of the Shrub a lot of things would have turned out better).
If only he hadn’t sold himself out. If only he stayed true to a reformer’s platform to where he could have been another Teddy Roosevelt. Alas. All those opportunities lost.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Mary G: No, we can appeal, the denial is considered a Human Rights issue, so I can take it to a tribunal where a Judge will make the decision. From the research I have done on this, 90% of cases that are denied by Immigration are overturned by the tribunal judge. It is a bit of a scandal at the moment because the court time that are being taken up by these appeals is stupid. The immigration people said themselves that my husband could get on a ferry to Dublin, take up residence for a while, apply to the Embassy for entry and “based on your paperwork” it would get approved immediately.. The whole thing is silly.
PaulWartenberg
@Brachiator:
Australia has advantages of being 1) not a major global player/military power and 2) a still-developing economy in a key market area (Southeast Asia). So in some respects ineptitude in political leadership there can be tolerated as long as it does not sink into racist viciousness (which it has done from time to time, sadly).
I think they need to put Director George Miller into the Prime Minister’s seat.
J R in WV
@Litlebritdifrnt:
OH, that’s bad news. I’m sorry for your obstacles! You should file an appeal on the grounds that the new requirement was never made clear anywhere! Did you ever have a solicitor? Is that the correct technical term now in Britain? Maybe you need one now.
Could he spend a couple of months visiting friends in the States and then return to your welcoming arms?
What next?!
Mary G
@Litlebritdifrnt: So it’s not just America where the immigration people are idiots. Sounds like you just have to jump through the hoops of the appeal, but it’s just infuriating to be put through this kind of thing.
J R in WV
@J R in WV:
Glad to see you can appeal, amazing that going to Dublin was suggested, what a waste of resources, time, educated people’s work, etc. Best of luck!!
Also, totally normal government clerk behavior, follow the most stupid rule as if it were dog’s word! Then always, always get overruled on appeal!!! You would think that after the 2nd or 3rd bad decision was overturned, someone higher up would say “We need to stop making these wrong-headed decisions that get overturned every time: Here’s what you do henceforth~!!” But no, that would perhaps cause a position to be lost, and a salary to lower, ON NOES!!!
Calouste
@Litlebritdifrnt: IIRC, a lot of rules that make immigration harder were put in place while Theresa May was Home Secretary.
Litlebritdifrnt
Everyone: (Too many posters to reply to individually). We were told that our documentation was stellar (I have never seen a more professionally put together portfolio said one official), but they insisted that we should have applied when DH was still in the US as opposed to when he was already here. However, all of their paperwork begins with “Leave to Remain” you cannot remain somewhere that you are not already there. You cannot ask for permission for leave to remain somewhere where you are not at. The whole thing is silly. Anyhoo, we have appealed and I await the hearing date.
Haroldo
@Brachiator:
Australia changed a lot after Horne wrote that.
I immigrated to Australia in 1991 and rather quickly became a citizen because at that time Oz was a great place to live and, very importantly, I could be proud of the government. Gough Whitam’s Labor Government (1972 – 1975) was, I think, the motor force for that. Oz is still a wonderful place, but the international right-wing reaction to progressive policies globally has taken its toll there as well as many other places. The point is the oligarchs never sleep, unfortunately, so humanity has to fight for its gains.
Mary G
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oh my goodness. That’s terrible! I’m so sorry.
Mnemosyne
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I think HelenInEire has an opening on her living room couch … ?
No, I’m kidding, because that’s just stupid. You’re probably better off with the appeal. Ain’t bureaucracy grand?
Haroldo
@Litlebritdifrnt: Good luck. Immigration bureaucracy strikes me as being perhaps the most absurd of the bureaucracies even when it’s not overtly hostile.
Brachiator
@Haroldo: Thanks very much for the background information. I don’t pretend to know anything about Australia history or politics and love it when people with real knowledge add comments.
Calouste
@Haroldo: Applying for a Green Card in the US requires a test for a number of communicable diseases, even though a large number of people who apply for a Green Card have already been living in the country for years.
The only thing it does is keep a number of otherwise unemployable doctors in business.
Feathers
@Litlebritdifrnt: Immigration is terrible everywhere. The RMV (Registry of Motor Vehicles) is terrible in Massachusetts, but the one really good thing they do is have a desk by the entrance to the waiting area where someone goes through your paperwork and JUST makes sure that you are using the right forms and have the correct documentation for the transaction you are there for. You may still get sent home, but at least you haven’t waited an hour. I’ve pushed for something similar on projects I’ve worked on. It amazes me how many people don’t understand that doing a quick check to make sure everything is in order, saves time and effort rather than wasting it.
Haroldo
@Brachiator: And thanks very much for writing about Australia! I moved back to the US for work and miss it.
Haroldo
@Calouste: I would hate to deal with US Immigration.
Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi)
@Litlebritdifrnt: oh f*ck, that sucks
Litlebritdifrnt
@Mnemosyne: I may very well be calling on Helen for the use of her couch in the future. :)
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Brachiator: Oh no…I missed this. Ugh.
Here’s the best response to anti-vaxxers.
http://graphics.wsj.com/infectious-diseases-and-vaccines/
Catherine D.
@Litlebritdifrnt: I wonder how much of your problems are exacerbated by the chewy clusterf*ck of Windrush.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Calouste: When I applied for entry into to the US I was required to have a TB test, I told them up front that I had been immunized for TB when I was child, and the TB test would not work. They ignored me. They gave me the test, my arm swelled up to the size of my leg and they sent me for chest x-rays. I TOLD them that I had been immunized for TB and eventually the Radiologist admitted that had they known they should never have tested me. They did it any way.
efgoldman
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
A bullet to the brain? /[Tanguphule]
Dan B
@trollhattan: Seattle was at AQI 180 for four days last week. It was at ground level. Air temps were mid to upper 80’s. There’s very little AC here since Puget Sound used to keep temp’s low and nights downright chilly since Puget Sound surface temps manage to reach 50 degrees in late summer. Even new apartment buildings have no AC.
Just after sundown the smoke would thicken dramatically. Our visibility went from 100+ miles to 2 miles or less. Much of the pollution was PM2.5 which is not very visible. That was scary.
And east of the Cascades it’s been smokey all summer ranging from PM2.5 120 to over 300! With daytime temps over 100 degrees.
There’s a good possibility that the fires will be much worse in a decade with no capacity to fight the fires. We’re already at peak firefighting capability so what hapoens next? Some people here want to move north to get away from the heat and fires but it’s worse to the north.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Feathers: That is what annoys me, don’t take all that money off me and then tell me I have filled out the wrong form,
Dan B
@trollhattan: Terrible to hear about your relentless smoke. We’re freaking out in Seattle after two weeks. But it’s partly because two weeks is a big chunk of our summer which has at times been mid July to end of August. Our beach weather. It’s funny how many people here are freaked out about global warming when they were previously glad that winters were milder and summers warmer.
Timurid
@PaulWartenberg:
Age is a helluva drug.
Yutsano
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’m sorry you’re having to go through all this. Hoping the appeal comes back positive!
Aleta
Glad you focused on this. I’ve noticed that emails from leftwing relatives (currently about free press), have been ending with a single sentence that in one breath adds anti-vaccine, 9-11 trutherism, and other silencing to the mix. The same people who were sent emails committed to voting against HRC despite opposition to Trump.
Aleta
@Aleta: correction: the same people who sent me emails committed to voting against HRC despite opposition to Trump.
Sister Golden Bear
@Mnemosyne: If you weren’t a bit worried, I’d be concerned.
Sister Golden Bear
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oy. Hope things get overturned on appeal.
Uncle Cosmo
@Mary G: As I posted in the thread below, the UK and US immigration & customs services have long been roundly despised by independent travelers as the worst & most hostile in the world. (By “long” I mean since deep into the last millennium, long before 9/11 & the resultant craziness.)
Basically, their attitude (it’s the same attitude) is, Everybody in the world wants to come here & stay & take advantage of our wonderful country to make lots of money &/or commit crimes. Every visitor who comes in is viewed as an illegal immigrant &/or criminal, guilty until proven innocent (& maybe not even then).
e
The Pale Scot
@Mnemosyne: If you health is Ok there’s not much to worry about. The hard part of joint surgeries is the rehab. Don’t get lazy, a stiff knee prevents you from easily getting in and out of a car for example.
Oh ya God Damn It, make sure they put a lot lube on your urinal catheter! Trying to pee after they unhooked me was the most painful part of of the whole thing