Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Be a wild strawberry.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

“woke” is the new caravan.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

“But what about the lurkers?”

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Bark louder, little dog.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / The Coming Apocalypse

The Coming Apocalypse

by | 210 Comments

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Ed Yong, who has done really excellent work throughout the pandemic, has a tragic, terrifying piece up at The Atlantic just now, “The Hospitals Know What’s Coming.”

The story focuses on one institution, the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. It’s a major center of excellence, and as Yong reports was uniquely well-placed to deal with an epidemic:

After the SARS outbreak of 2003, its staff began specifically preparing for emerging infections. The center has the nation’s only federal quarantine facility and its largest biocontainment unit, which cared for airlifted Ebola patients in 2014. They had detailed pandemic plans. They ran drills. Ron Klain, who was President Obama’s “Ebola czar” and will be Joe Biden’s chief of staff in the White House, once told me that UNMC is “arguably the best in the country” at handling dangerous and unusual diseases.

But, as Yong meticulously reports, no amount of preparation can overcome a broad-based failure of basic public health measures.

In the past two weeks, the hospital had to convert an entire building into a COVID-19 tower, from the top down. It now has 10 COVID-19 units, each taking up an entire hospital floor. Three of the units provide intensive care to the very sickest people, several of whom die every day. One unit solely provides “comfort care” to COVID-19 patients who are certain to die. “We’ve never had to do anything like this,” Angela Hewlett, the infectious-disease specialist who directs the hospital’s COVID-19 team, told me. “We are on an absolutely catastrophic path.”

The Coming Apocalypse 1

 

That’s just from the top of the story. Read the whole thing–really. There are well-told human stories throughout, and my admiration for and sense of obligation to everyone working on the healthcare front lines of this have ratcheted way up from already high levels.

 

But the incidents and anecdotes are in service of the larger point, which is tragic and utterly infuriating. The conscious and willful failure of leadership that has persuaded so many people to ignore the risk has created the conditions for utter disaster. When–and it doesn’t appear to be an “if”–the disease exceeds hospital systems’ capacity the death toll will accelerate.
This will be bad everywhere, but worse in the places that are now hardest hit: the more rural states with fewer major hospitals to draw upon.
While cities like New York or Boston have many big hospitals that can care for advanced strokes, failing hearts that need mechanical support, and transplanted organs, “in this region, we’re it,” [critical care Dr. Dan] Johnson says. “We provide care that can’t be provided at any other hospital for a 200-mile radius. We’re going to need to decide if we continue to offer that care, or if we admit every single COVID-19 patient who comes through our door.”
Yong concludes his story with the same truth David Anderson keeps drumming into our thick skulls:
 It takes several days for infected people to show symptoms, a dozen more for newly diagnosed cases to wend their way to hospitals, and even more for the sickest of patients to die. These lags mean that the pandemic’s near-term future is always set, baked in by the choices of the past. It means that Ricketts is already too late to stop whatever UNMC will face in the coming weeks (but not too late to spare the hospital further grief next month). It means that some of the people who get infected over Thanksgiving will struggle to enter packed hospitals by the middle of December, and be in the ground by Christmas.
This is what makes this piece both a sober, meticulously reported and heart breaking story, and a call to action. It’s too late to deal with what’s heading at us, what will happen in the latter half of December and beyond remains subject to our choices, good or bad.
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On that happy note…open thread.
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Image: Gustave Doré, Jesus healing the sick, before 1883.

Reader Interactions

210Comments

  3. 3.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    Here in hell, otherwise known as Ohio, DeWine, a not-insane Republican when it comes to COVID-19, is being battered by the batshit loonies in the Assembly. They’re at this moment, attempting to strip his emergency powers for statewide health orders. Health departments would not have the ability to enforce quarantines for positive individuals.

    This is absolute insanity. I’m unfortunately represented by two Republicans. My state senator, Rulli, at least voted against this bill. I don’t understand what’s going through these people’s minds. Aren’t the state’s hospitals screaming at the Republicans in the Assembly?! What about the American Medical Association?!

  4. 4.

    WaterGirl

    I just got the emergency alert on my phone that all of IL is in Tier 3, effective immediately.  Good move.

    Maybe some of my family members will change their decisions about Thanksgiving with 10 people from 5 different households.

  5. 5.

    Jim Appleton

    I’ve been a fan of his since he was wet behind the ears on PZ Meyers.

    Very nice to see how he’s come along.

  7. 7.

    Halteclere

    My elderly father, who lives in Missouri, was diagnosed yesterday with subdural hematoma and needed immediate surgery. But there were no beds available in any Missouri hospitals. So he was airlifted to Memphis late last night for surgery this morning.

    The Missouri governor is still preaching “personal responsibility” and will not institute a state-wide mask mandate. And the hospitals have filled up.

  14. 14.

    Punchy

    “We are on an absolutely catastrophic path.”

    {Checks election results for NE; confirms Nebraskans wanted 4 more years of this absolute shitshow}

    Yeah, I’ll be that asshole. I’m fresh out of fucks to give for these folks who wont do what they’re told (masks) and refuse to take restrictions seriously. I feel horrible for the docs and nurses, but I’m clear into “let Darwin take it from here” mode on these rural populations. I guess I’m just heartless or something.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    As it’s topically related kultcha, Jack London’s The Scarlet Plague available online many places, including here.

    Not the sort of story one would normally associate with him.

  17. 17.

    Tom Levenson

    @Punchy: I get that. I’ve thought that. But just about every one of those assholes has at least one person they can infect/kill who thinks they’re nuts, wants a better world, doesn’t think science is a liberal plot.

    If it were only the MAGAts, I’d be all “reap what you sow.” But it ain’t.

  20. 20.

    normal liberal

    @WaterGirl:  I was driving when the alert took over my radio and then my watch, which hasn’t happened before. My boss has decided that I’m essential enough to be the person holding down the fort at the office. I might as well go quietly mad there as at home.
    I cannot wait for a couple more centuries to go by so this can be over.

  22. 22.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @debbie: I thought when Mnuchin said they were working on distributing the virus he meant to blue areas but I guess just like everything else they’re incompetent at this too.

  23. 23.

    bluefoot

    @Halteclere: I hope your father gets the care he needs and recovers well.

    This another thing people don’t get – they don’t seem to understand that critical care units/ICUs filled with COVID patients means not getting care if you’re in an accident, or have a heart attack, or have some other sort of health crisis.  The system *will* collapse.  People are already not getting the medical care they/we need.

  26. 26.

    prostratedragon

    @Halteclere:  Best wishes to your father and you. That is a difficult diagnosis, but many people do make it through.

     

    The part that is both sad and enraging is that so many fail to see that the public health precautions of this disease are partly meant to keep hospitals from being overrun like the ones in Missouri. And now we’re seeing spillovers across State lines.

  27. 27.

    Mai Naem mobile

     

    @NotMax: Black Friday will be called Red Friday this year because most.retail places will not be going  into the black this Black Friday.

  28. 28.

    namekarB

    I (72 year old hippie) caused quite a stir today in the grocery store. The People’s Republic of California is in (mostly) lockdown. A 20-something came be-bopping down my aisle sans mask. I screamed at him, “Turn around! Go Back! You are a danger to me and everyone else in the store!” He froze and I could see the emotions scroll across his face, surprise, anger, then embarrassment as everyone stopped to stare. But he turned around and mumbled on his way away from me.

    I don’t know what has gotten in to me. It just all came out.  I didn’t used to be so confrontational. I was always a live and let live dude. AITA?

  29. 29.

    JPL

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): Most stores are running sales all month, but people will still be out the day after Thanksgiving.   Locally there was a shooting in an area mall (Lenox) over a fight.   The local news  scanned the parking lot and it was obvious people were shopping.

  36. 36.

    C Stars

    My brother lives in a midwestern town where Trump had a rally in early October and in the weeks since the positivity rate has gone up to like 35%. My brother currently works in healthcare, as a lab tech, and waits tables at a restaurant. And is barely eking by. And is also diabetic and primary caregiver of his two young kids.

     

    Can’t wait for this BS to be over.

  38. 38.

    aliasofwestgate

    I just got the IL tier 3 emergency alert too. I’m still pissed up here in WI that the Assembly has basically decided to dilly dally on even talking about the legislation they so much ‘wanted’ they sued the Governor over the Covid emergency orders. Hell, they still have one ongoing in court about the very much needed mask mandate.  I mean, wTF. These people are so insane over power, meanwhile the numbers keep climbing and it drives me up the wall. I’ve been a pharm tech. I don’t like seeing people get sick when they have all the facts to not be sick at all, if they follow directions.

  39. 39.

    Geoduck

    @prostratedragon: We’re seeing it here in Washington state. It’s creeping up, like everywhere, but we aren’t getting hammered.. meanwhile the idiots in Idaho are filling their hospitals and sending people our way.

  40. 40.

    Halteclere

    @Halteclere:

    Thanks everyone for the well-wishes. The last I heard is that my dad has been resting all afternoon, probably completely drugged up.

    My mom obviously could not travel with my dad and is unable to visit. So she’s relying on the nurses and doctors to give her calls with updates. We appreciate the amount of time these people have taken to keep my mom informed, for I expect they have many other families similarly awaiting news of loved-ones’ conditions.

  42. 42.

    piratedan

    its sad that 11 months ago we were prepping for our hospitals in WA state to handle COVID-19 by defining hallway spaces for potential beds to track patients after reading what was taking place in China… then observing how the folks in the state took it seriously so we didn’t end up like Italy leaving people in rooms waiting to die due to lack of logistics and now here we are, after watching all of that and seemingly have the GOP either not fucking believe it, or not care (or a combination of both) and everyone either having collective amnesia about what happened elsewhere and in NYC and think that “it can’t happen here”…

    just tragic… and I think of the people doing their best to provide care and how many of them are going to get sick because of this willful stupidity….

  45. 45.

    Reilly in Orinda

    A friend who’s an MD, MPH, epidemiologist said that she is expecting 2,800-3,000 deaths a day in December.

    So, a 9/11 every single fucking day.

  46. 46.

    Dan B

    @namekarB: I did this to a guy in our little local butcher shop.  I was suddenly not concerned if he was armed.  Covid and guns are both existential threats to many of us.  The woman in the shop looked so relieved.

    It reminded me of my aunts who learned lifesaving.  One of them came to the aid of a guy who was drowning.  He climbed on top of her in hs panic pushing her under.  She clocked him and swam him to shore.

    Option A: drowning

    Option B: headache

  47. 47.

    aliasofwestgate

    Then again, now that i think of it. I worked retail for a solid 15 years or so. 7 of those were as a Pharmacy Tech, yeah. But it was still retail. The overriding lesson all that time taught me? People are stupid. Ragingly stupid, far too often for my liking. Lots of good people, but act stupid for the dumbest reasons.

  48. 48.

    Mary G

    @Halteclere: What a terrifying situation for your family. I’m glad the medical personnel have time to keep in touch

    @Tom Levenson: I’m struggling with that. I don’t want certain Republicans to survive, or at least to be long haulers, but at the same time there’s no way to sort them out.

  49. 49.

    Gravenstone

    @Cheryl Rofer: Early on in this, I had some clown who was accompanying his partner at the store literally back into me as I was bagging my groceries. It took every ounce of self control not to punch him, let alone unleash a high volume tirade.

  51. 51.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @piratedan: I sometimes think they’ve kind of been willfully  neglectful since it kills off more of the elderly and the vulnerable who are more likely to be on social security, Medicare, Medicaid etc. I don’t want to have those thoughts but that’s what I observe with a lot of GOPrs.

  53. 53.

    PsiFighter37

    The next few months are going to be an absolute shitshow. Biden and team are going to likely be shocked by the absolute ineptitude of the federal response once they actually take charge of things. I hope they air out the dirty laundry and point fingers at Trump for being responsible for killing people.

  56. 56.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @namekarB: no you are not the asshole. They were for not wearing a mask and not caring cuz they think it won’t hurt them. One of the ladies at work yelled at the reception person because reception person was using one of the joint use Fedex machines without her mask.  I clapped. Reception person is in her 60s. WTF is wrong with people?!?

  57. 57.

    CaseyL

    UW Medicine has been holding town halls every week, and SFAIK these are available to the public.  If anyone’s interested, I will find and post the link.

    The staff at UW Medicine was told today that we’ll be WFH through July, from which I gather that even if a vaccine is approved, and distributed, it will be that long before: a) everyone gets the vaccine; and b) the vaccine takes effect within our bodies.

    We’re also very carefully tracking our care capacity.  As PirateDan noted, Washington hospitals went into a frenzy of preparation back in March-April, only to see the incident rate go down.  One assumes the planning back then informs the planning now.  Also, our system is very much aware of the advances in treatment since then.  At the Town Hall, people were… I don’t want to say “cautiously optimistic,” more like “cautiously ready.”

  59. 59.

    jk

    Wonkmeister Ezra Klein is joining the NY Times:

    We’re delighted to announce that Ezra Klein will become Opinion’s newest columnist and podcast host.

    He was early to recognize the extraordinary potential of podcasts, diving into deep and focused conversations with authors and intellectuals, and taking the time to illuminate the big ideas and policies shaping our world. Before that, he was a columnist, writer and editor at The Washington Post, where he founded Wonkblog, a policy analyst at MSNBC, and a contributor to The New Yorker and Bloomberg.

    You can expect further additions to our columnist ranks as we continue to broaden the range of Times debate on consequential questions.

    nytco.com/press/ezra-klein-joins-times-opinion-as-columnist-and-podcast-host

  60. 60.

    evodevo

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): Well, Ky isn’t any better…and we have a Dem Gov.  The Repubs are having a cow over Beshear’s latest restrictions, whining about their freedumb and economic damage ( but absolutely failing to force Moscow Mitch to pass any covid package that could ameliorate that), as if there is no surge…our lege is just as stoopid as Ohio’s rednecks…

  62. 62.

    Dan B

    The existential threat and the actual deaths will register when they are pervasive and inescapable.  AIDS followed the same pattern except it didn’t affect the entire population uniformly.  Reagan ignored it.  Notice the pattern?

    We may be going through awful times.  It’s important to grieve and to come together safely.  This is unfamiliar territory at the moment.  My experience is that there will be waves of grief and not just for the sickness and dying.  Our economy, our politics, and our old way of life are all struggling. Many aspects are dying.  That’s why we need to grieve so the new life can emerge.

    If we ignore and fight the change it will take longer.  But whatever we do the change will happen.

    I think BJ’ers are doing better than most.

  64. 64.

    Mary G

    Just checked the numbers for Orange County and it’s horrifying how the exponential growth goes. We went from 150 new cases a day to 300 to two or three days at 600+ this week. Today it’s more than 1100 and the spare hospital capacity we’ve had all this time is melting away. It’s scary.

  66. 66.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @WaterGirl:

    You joke, but I’m hoping the Georgia Senate races go our way so frontline workers like myself can get paid better. We also need to boost the national minimum wage. It hasn’t been increased since 2009. I wonder if it would be possible to tie national minimum wage increases to cost of living increases?

  67. 67.

    West of the Rockies

    @Tom Levenson:

    I’m pretty much calling out to the Covid-Isn’t-a-Thing folk, “You!  Out of the gene pool!”

    As Punchy said, I have absolute empathy  for the medical staff treating these people and those they infect.  But the deniers?  Nah…

  69. 69.

    cain

    @bbleh:

    So I would like to think that if the hospitals are full then they need to figure out – I dont understand why other states who have been doing the right thing need to accommodate states that do not put lock downs in place.

    Personal responsibility indeed.

  71. 71.

    Central Planning

    I just saw that DT jr. has tested positive for the Rona. Good for him.

    In upstate NY medical news, one hospital is fuller than it has ever been due to coronavirus cases.

    At another hospital, the nurses union has authorized a strike. Apparently they have been trying to come to an agreement for 2.5 years. I heard the nurses at another hospital near NYC did the same thing.

    I hope the unions can get what they want. Seems like a great time to get some concessions.

  72. 72.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @NotMax:

    Eh, podcasts can be more than just interviews. I listen to Welcome to Nightvale a lot, which is basically the X-Files crossed with public radio, talking about a weird, fictional town. It has it’s own mythos and story/character arcs. I’d highly recommend taking a listen : )

  74. 74.

    UncleEbeneezer

    When it arrives, people with COVID-19 will die not just because of the virus, but because the hospital will have nowhere to put them and no one to help them. Doctors will have to decide who to put on a ventilator or a dialysis machine. They’ll have to choose whether to abandon entire groups of patients who can’t get help elsewhere. While cities like New York and Boston have many big hospitals that can care for advanced strokes, failing hearts that need mechanical support, and transplanted organs, “in this region, we’re it,” Johnson says.

    So, in the latest chapter of Its Always Projection With Republicans, they finally will get their Death Panels. ??

  76. 76.

    Miss Bianca

    @Punchy:  Hey, I *live* in one of these ruby-red areas (albeit in a Dem-run state, thank the gods) and I am out of fucks to give myself.

  77. 77.

    Punchy

    @Helen: I am aware.  But generally, NE wants the (R) and this year he was selling death and destruction.  With some exceptions, Nebraskans are getting what they asked for.

  79. 79.

    PsiFighter37

    @Mary G: And yet the coastal portion decided to elect that asshole Michelle Steel instead. I hope Harley Rouda figures out what went wrong this year and can take back the seat in 2022. IMO, the GOP has no business holding onto any of those seats in the OC nowadays given that Biden (and Democrats going forward) are winning this entire portion of Southern California by double digits.

  80. 80.

    RSA

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    To be fair to Nebraska, NE-2 voted for Biden

    Further, at the district level, there’s always a mixture of people voting for different parties (not to mention non-voters). Even the reddest districts in the U.S. vote 15-20% Democratic.

  82. 82.

    NotMax

    Step the first in Thanksgiving prep. ✔

    Picked a half dozen lovely oranges form the tree in the yard. Shall allow them to further sweeten up for a few days before juicing them to use in some of the recipes.

  84. 84.

    Kattails

    @PsiFighter37: I doubt they’ll be shocked at this point, at least I hope not.  That would indicate a level of naive we can’t afford.  Also, pointing fingers is no where near enough. A significant amount of Federal funds and personnel need to go to insuring that this can never happen again, both via aggressive prosecution and legislative efforts.

  85. 85.

    NotMax

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    Broadcast drama or comedy is hardly something new. Call it NTR (new time radio) as opposed to OTR, of which there is a cornucopia available online which can also be listened to when one chooses.

  86. 86.

    Hungry Joe

    Good old’ Rep. Jim Jordan is urging everyone to make their own decisions about the holidays — don’t let the gov’t push you around! No school closures! No shutdown!

    How I wish karma was a thang. But I’m old enough to know better.

  87. 87.

    Chetan Murthy

    @namekarB:

    I don’t know what has gotten in to me.

    (1) you are not the asshole.

    (2) you are not the asshole.

    (3) you are not the asshole.

    I venture to say that you did what so many of us would do, but we’re not brave enough.  You had the bravery of not wanting to die, not wanting to kill your loved ones, but then, we all have that, and yet most of us don’t do what you did.

     

    Thank you for what you did.  I also live in California, and seeing unmasked people walk by me on the sidewalk in front of my house pisses me the fuck off.  But I don’t yell at them, b/c afraid/shy/whatever.  But I *should* yell at them.  This is how we enforce norms in our country, in our state, in our city, when the FUCKING FORCES OF ORDER refuse to do their FUCKING JOB.  So again: thank you.

    P.S. I read that in France, in Dunkirk, a young man who had repeatedly gone about without his permission form filled-out, was arrested and sentenced to two months in prison.  Hot damn!  That’s what we need!

  88. 88.

    Kattails

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): It should also be tied to national productivity. Watch Katie Porter and her little white board confront industry executives about their outrageous pay. The exec’s rationalize this by talking about how productive they are. I have read that minimum wage tied to US productivity would put it at $22/hour.

  89. 89.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @satby:

    Technically. I have a license but have not taken the NCLEX yet. It was because of the pandemic that the state authorized any nursing graduates to be licensed temporarily.

    I’d prefer to pass the NCLEX first before applying for an RN job. I’d also prefer not to catch this virus if I can help it, so I’ve been delaying a bit because of that. I’d rather not become a long-hauler, spread it to my parents whom I live with, or even die. I’m young, but I’m also slightly overweight and have a fatty liver

  90. 90.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Reilly in Orinda:

    2,800-3,000 deaths a day in December.

    Delong pointed out that the CFR has been stable at 1.5% since July.  7-day average is 160k cases/day right now.  The math is implacable: 2.4k deaths a  day, just based on the current numbers.  And they’re going to go up.  So your friend is probably spot-on accurate.  If we reach 200k cases/day …. there ya’ go.

  91. 91.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Dan B:

    my aunts who learned lifesaving

    I took a Water Safety Instructor course in college.  Yeah, one of the repeated exercises is subduing a violently uncooperative victim in the water and bringing them ashore.  Fun fun fun (not).

  95. 95.

    Kay

    I spoke with a nurse who works in Toledo today. She works in the ICU but not the covid section of the ICU. She says the covid patients who are really sick require a lot of nursing care and in her estimation they’re at max capacity for the staffing they have, already. She’s been at this hospital for 15 years so thinks she has a good sense for what she knows is “capacity”. She said “maybe they’ll open something in the SeaGate Center (a convention center) but I don’t know how they’ll staff it”.

    She had tears in her eyes- she’s a really good person. My heart just sank.

  96. 96.

    Fair Economist

    The death numbers are going to start to significantly underestimate the true deaths (as they did in the spring) because of people dying without ever getting tested because the hospitals and test sites are full up. We aren’t going to know how many people actually die in December until March, because it takes about 8 weeks for the system to process the death certificates.

  97. 97.

    Doug R

    @piratedan: I think WA state and BC being gateways to Asia learned valuable lessons during SARS. I’m proud of BC for not losing a single patient during SARS.

    That being said, record numbers of new cases in recent days have led BC to a mandatory mask order for indoors and a request for only essential travel.

  98. 98.

    Anotherlurker

    @Dan B: Clocking a panicked swimmer is S.O.P in lifesaving.  It gets their attention and just may lead to the distressed party co-operating in their rescue.

  100. 100.

    germy

    Democrat Michelle Hinchey has made up enormous ground since trailing by more than 8,000 votes in the 46th Senate District race, and on Friday took a lead in mail-in ballot counting and claimed victory.

    Late Friday, her campaign said that with absentee ballots counted so far running 82 percent in her favor in Ulster County — her home county — Hinchey has now taken a 300-vote lead over Republican Richard Amedure of Rensselaerville, who was the apparent winner on Election Night.

    “Our world has changed immensely since we started our campaign, but that didn’t stop voters from coming out in droves to make their voices for change heard,” Hinchey said in a victory statement. “I decided to run for office to help make our Upstate communities stronger for the future, and I am tremendously thankful for everyone in the 46th District who heard our message and put their faith in me to be a strong Upstate voice in Albany. I could not be more excited or humbled to have the opportunity to represent them in the State Senate.”

    Amedure, a former state trooper and distant relative of Amedore’s, did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

    dailygazette.com/2020/11/20/hinchey-claiming-victory-in-the-46th-state-senate-district/

  102. 102.

    Fair Economist

    @Mary G: I’d gotten used to relatively slow climbs, and figured it was because most people are at least kind of reasonable and that slows the spread. This alarming local explosion here in Orange County has shocked me – from stable and relatively low to all time high in just 3 weeks.

    I’m thinking Halloween must have been a major driver, and it just makes me dread Thanksgiving all the more. Even worse, Christmas. Fortunately my family is being reasonable about holidays (although not my brother with safety at work, grr.)

  104. 104.

    Elie

    @Delk:

    One of these folks is gonna pull the brass ring and get the big motha covid and end up in the morgue — not ICU, the MORGUE.  Its just statistics.  Sooner or later the denominator will be big enough to pull in one of the Trump muthas.  Bound to happen — just when and to whom.  I have some personal favorites but I’ll let the goddess Nemesis and the Fates do what they do.

  107. 107.

    WaterGirl

    @David Anderson: Not surprisingly , I do not find myself reassured by this comment.

    I thought it was interesting that the IL governor made the new emergency change to Tier 3 effective immediately, instead of the usual “tomorrow” or “on Monday”.

    Last time he announced “tomorrow” there was a terrible run on all the grocery stores and people shopped in a panic.  It was terrifyingly crowded when that happened in March.

  108. 108.

    CarolDuhart2

    Heart attack on the first of November.  I got lucky, if luck is such a word for this.  I was a ble to get to the nearest hospital and I had several nurses to help me.  Back at home that Wednesday and haven’t left since except for the time downstairs to do laundry and get my picked up groceries.  They want me to do cardiac rehab, but skittish due to the 3 times a week.  I would go by that recommendation but for the transportation part. (Yes it would be medical transportation, but still).

    I don’t know what would have happened to me if I had to be flown to another state.  Probably too out of it to notice I was flying-but I’m afraid of heights, and every minute counts here too.

  112. 112.

    Ksmiami

    @Punchy: I feel we’ve tried hard to tell them not to put their dicks in light sockets so… I just feel bad for the innocent victims.

  115. 115.

    Elie

    @NotMax:

    I almost said something evil about that pillow and his face.

    I leave it to Nemesis and the Fates to do what they do, as I said upstring…

  118. 118.

    CarolDuhart2

    @Ksmiami:  My primary care does telemedicine, but I need this in-person exam for my cardiologist and to set up cardiac rehab.

    So far I finally got my pill dispenser (automated) and a towel bar I case I feel faint or something-nervous because I had to spend time with the person to teach me how to set things up (about 15 mins or so).  We were both masked, and the home alert/pilldispenser person was even gloved).  And I was thankful for that-which shows you how far down we have gone-this should be standard here.  BTW, I’m having someone come every two weeks for laundry.  So no more midnight laundry sessions when the building is quiet and empty.

    A brain surgeon who’s taking medical advice from the My Pillow guy?  Whatever happened to asking around your colleagues, who at least have a degree in medicine?  And poisonous oleander?  Maybe that’s why he didn’t.  Nobody who ever took medical courses on any level would have given that advice.  But he’s a victim of the Trump cool-aid, where advice from anybody who doesn’t worship Orange Cheeto is suspect.

  120. 120.

    FelonyGovt

    @Halteclere: Best wishes for your father. I can’t imagine having to be airlifted to another state is helpful for his condition. This is beyond infuriating.

  122. 122.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Halteclere:

    so sorry to hear. My elderly father fell and suffered a subdural hematoma 1.5 years ago and fell again in January. But he’s not impacted by the virus.

    All the best to you and your pop.

  125. 125.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @CarolDuhart2: When I had my heart attack, my cardiologist had me wait 6 weeks before starting rehab. Do you know if yours wants you to start immediately? If not, this may not be a decision you have to make right away.

    For me at any rate, rehab was just exercise while being monitored, with 15 minutes of education thrown in once a week.

  128. 128.

    cckids

    @Punchy:

    Checks election results for NE; confirms Nebraskans wanted 4 more years of this absolute shitshow}

    Yeah, I’ll be that asshole. I’m fresh out of fucks to give for these folks who wont do what they’re told (masks)

    You might want to save a few fucks to give to the people of Omaha (where UNMC is located) They went for Biden; gave him that congressional district and its EC vote.

  129. 129.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    Here’s a thought. Why don’t major media outlets stop interviewing Trump supporters for a bit, and instead interview Covid-19 survivors? “Wow, even though you survived, you were in the hospital how long? Do you have anything to say about people who think it’s no big deal, because only a relatively small percentage die from it?”

    Why do white working class folks in Trump country get their voices heard, while the innocent victims of his dereliction of duty don’t?

    (ETA: Obviously, I’m not downplaying the horrible sacrifices demanded of our health care workers; but I’m stunned that no one has thought of asking the survivors about their experiences, to help pop the “it’s no big deal” hoax bubble.)

  130. 130.

    Brachiator

    I accidentally punched the radio scan button and got a right wing radio station. I listened a bit to their supposed arguments. This is in California, where rules have been tightened recently.

    One point was that the science behind health advisories was arbitrary or flawed. This point was really hit on by a local reporter who attends the periodic health briefings and tries to question the officials. My immediate reaction is that he is simply talking to the wrong people in the wrong venue. Also, from some of his other comments, I think he is a good reporter, but not nearly as sharp about science as he thinks.

    The second point is an insistence that everyone be allowed to come to their own decisions because “freedom.” This is too stupid for words. But this is a common theme, that everyone is an expert.

    The last argument that came up was especially noxious. This is the idea that the government should do nothing because most of the people who are becoming infected are young people who will not get sick. So it is pointless to shut down the economy and make everyone suffer.

    No one had anything to say about hospitals filling up or more people dying or how to prevent this.

    I had to switch stations after this point.

  132. 132.

    CarolDuhart2

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Won’t know for sure until Tuesday’s appointment.  However, I have an exercise bike and just now am I feeling up to doing much of anything.

    When I was in the hospital I asked about things like cholesterol and other markers.  Apparently they were okay, but that my diabetes needed to be under control.  Back on the sensors, and getting better there as well.  But I’m beginning to wonder if the low-level stress is a factor as well.  I have medicine for that prescribed back in April, but lapsed as I was having allergies as well and didn’t want to go overboard.  Well, I’m getting back on those too.

  133. 133.

    cckids

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):It won’t be in-person. It will be online shopping

    Seriously, what?? My store is open, and expecting crowds. Not typical BF numbers, but the store will be as full as possible given the gov’s 25% edict. And an unhealthy number of them will be congregating at the registers.

    And yes, I’m scheduled to work.

  134. 134.

    Kathleen

    @debbie: Are you in Franklin County and therefore “purple”? If so do you have additional restrictions? I feel we (Hamilton County) might be close. Stay safe !!!!

  137. 137.

    mvr

    Yes, I live here.  The Doctors have been trying to get the governor’s attention for weeks as well as compliance from the rest of us.  I guess the good news the gov is no longer threatening to sue cities that pass mask mandates.  And now cities beyond Lincoln where I live, and Omaha are starting to do it.  The bad news is that it is way late.  And we just had the last day of classes and my students are going to go home just as rates here are going up more quickly.

  140. 140.

    CarolDuhart2

    Thanks to all for your best wishes here.  It’s not completely over.  There are two more stents to go and  I may have to spend two more nights in the hospital-they want to do outpatient, but I live alone and my arm veins aren’t all that good.

    Sometimes I think this is the hidden toll of Covid.  The stress and the stuff that won’t get taken care  of timely due to lack of hospital capacity.  I have to have a colonoscopy and other measures, but instead of simply taking the bus, I have to have rides and even worry about those rides a little.  Fuck Donald Trump and his idiot kids.  We would have been better off with anarchy-we would have been allowed to stumble onto things that worked from time to time rather than this active spreader.

  141. 141.

    Richard

    Republican language. Language matters. I am tired of republican language. They have an Ebola czar. They have an economics czar. They have a maga czar. They have a covid-19 czar. They have a czar for every dingdang thing you can think of. They even have an assistant sports liaison to the White House czar!

    That’s enough. We don’t need them. Country where i was born, we didn’t have czars.

  142. 142.

    Mary G

    Finally have a case uncomfortably close to home. My housemate takes care of a woman with long term Parkinson’s eight hours a day, and the guy who brings a cleaning crew in once a week, and is careless with his mask, has come down with covid. Her patient wants tests for herself, her adult daughter that lives with her, and my housemate to get tested, and my housemate doesn’t want to.

  143. 143.

    Ksmiami

    @CarolDuhart2: take it easy and I hope you get seen very soon. My dad had a MI due to excessive travel and stress and he completely changed his life. He’s a robust 89 now

  145. 145.

    Kathleen

    @CarolDuhart2: Oh my gosh! I’m glad you’re OK. Can you ask your doc if there are any online videos you could follow for a modified rehab routine you could do at home? You are very close to several hospitals.

  146. 146.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @CaseyL:

    Years ago, we were in Barbados. Where we were staying, there was a fantastic reef about 40-60 yards out that was a favored feeding ground for turtles, and every morning, I’d go out to swim among them. Late one morning, wife, kids and me were out cavorting when some cattle boat of poorly equipped snorkelers rolled in and disgorged about 30 people of very mixed skills and float vests. We all swim well, don’t use snorkeling vests but control ourselves with good, stiff fins.

    One woman was really large, and sagging in her badly fitted vest (no fins), clearly struggling. Her panicked eyes light on my wife who is about 6 feet away. She’s moving for my wife in desperation. Wife (who is a fantastic natural swimmer and the only person I’ve ever seen come up from a 50 minute scuba dive with 2000 lbs of unused air) knows intuitively that this lady is going to drown both of them – and, cool as a cucumber, reaches an arm out to the woman’s chest and shoves her roughly toward the boat while calmly saying “you need to get back into your boat – you have no business out here”. Forward momentum having been checked and shifted, she was back to the boat pretty quickly.

    In all my time diving, it’s the only time I’ve seen someone with that “I’m gonna drown both of us” panic. It’s real and visible when it happens. I was about 10 feet off at the time, and I don’t know that I’d have come up with that rapid, shocking response, but it worked.

    ETA – My training was for a basic bear hug and drag if there was no likelihood of getting cooperation with spare air.

  147. 147.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: There was a documentary just on the BBC News channel about Covid in small towns in Russia.  One hospital had 100 patients on a floor, with one nurse to care for them.  Ambulance teams aren’t being tested for Covid.  Etc.

    The GOP is criminally negligent for doing their best to create similar conditions here.

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  151. 151.

    Dan B

    @CarolDuhart2: I wish you creative thinking to navigate your healthcare and healing.  Keep making noise when you feel the care options are off.  Providers are better at mind reading when they hear the words.

  152. 152.

    Kelly

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: When I was a very fit whitewater adventurer in my late 20’s I swam out to to try to help a panicked swimmer. No water rescue training. She had a good PFD and was not in any serious danger. She was in fast turbulent water and waves had dunked her several times, too panicked to hold her breath she came up coughing each time. I swam out, offered her my hand and she climbed on top of me. I had the advantage of at least 6 inches of reach and 40 lbs of muscle but was instantly overwhelmed. I dove for the bottom and let her drift the remaining 100 yards to calm water.

  153. 153.

    Ohio Mom

    CarolDuhart2:
    Oh dear! Glad you are on the mend, a heart attack is scary stuff.

    You mentioned diabetes — I will say that Ohio Dad’s control got much better with a pump and arm sensor combo. Expensive though, but everything diabetes is…

  154. 154.

    Dan B

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The responses for people who refuse to mask is to point out that you feel they are a threat to your health and life.  Their measly “freedom” and “stupid liberals” is not stalled by a logical request.  A modicum of emotion throws them off and let’s them know you will stand up to their bullying.

    It’s valuable to let them feel you mean it but aren’t going to waste an ounce more energy than needed.

  155. 155.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    @CarolDuhart2: My best wishes for good, positive progress out of this mess.

    This is no way to run a hot dog stand, let alone an entire country.

  156. 156.

    Ohio Mom

    I regularly scold people in the supermarket. Everyone has a mask — there is a worker at the entrance checking — but you do see an occasional nose.

    Today, the first miscreant, an old woman, ignored me and left her nose out as she walked away, but I was able to cajole the old man in front of me on the checkout line to cover his nose. I thanked him.

    I feel fearless because I am four foot eleven and for some reason that seems to scare people.

  157. 157.

    raven

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I was the aquatics director for the city and a WSI. The first thing anyone in that kind of training is taught is to never get close enough to a victim that they can grab you because they will climb you and drown you both.

     

    I had a buddy who ended up hanging on a root on a steep bank fast running  cold river. I heard him calling out and ran to where he was. I laid flat on the ground and grabbed his  hand. He was terrified (and drunk) and begged me to come in and save him. I told him “you’ll kill us both, I won’t let you go but I’m not coming in that water”. I kept yelling till help came and several of us were able to get something to him so we could pull him out.

  158. 158.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    Per the Tennessee Department of Health, here’s our hospital situation in Tennessee tn.gov/health/cedep/ncov/data/hospitalization-data/hospital-capacity.html

    We do have a fair number of ventilators still available, but not many open ICU beds—or many open hospital beds generally. At least 20 counties don’t have hospitals of their own, and our governor (a guy who made money in the air conditioning business and has no previous government experience) has yet to issue a mask mandate. We do not have a Medicaid expansion because it is better for people to die than be contaminated by the black Socialist Muslim’s free healthcare.
    Here’s the overall picture, starting the the 3444 new cases:

    tn.gov/health/cedep/ncov.html

    WASF, indeed.

  159. 159.

    Redshift

    @Brachiator:

    The second point is an insistence that everyone be allowed to come to their own decisions because “freedom.” This is too stupid for words. But this is a common theme, that everyone is an expert. 

    I would like to think that one thing that might come out of this whole situation is it being clear to everyone that the conservative meaning of “freedom” is nothing more than “I don’t wanna, you can’t make me.” But based on past experience, I can’t be optimistic anyone will remember.

  161. 161.

    E.

    @Punchy: Well I happen to live in exactly such a place where you want Darwin to take over. Those are my neighbors you are talking about. You know . . . Morons.

  162. 162.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @raven:

    Yup. They will. As I understand from rescue course instructors, once a buddy pair breaks down in a screwup, you’re better served by being behind the victim on the surface.

  166. 166.

    Another Scott

    @raven: Yup.  People aren’t rational when they think they’re drowning.  It’s a primal feeling – and why waterboarding is so traumatic.

    I took a Red Cross lifesaving course in college.  They taught us if someone was flailing around and we needed to rescue them, to carefully approach and keep them from grabbing us, to splash water in their faces if necessary, swim behind them and grab their chin and/or use our non-dominant arm/crook of the elbow to pin them against our side and hold their chin up.  No fisticuffs, but we only had simulated flailings.

    My dad got his MS at GaTech in the ’70s.  He said there was a story about someone who drowned during a swimming class.  Apparently back then they would tie people up and throw them in, to teach them not to panic and how to float when they couldn’t use their limbs.  Didn’t work in that case…  :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  167. 167.

    JAFD

    @CarolDuhart2: Good luck.  As fellow heart attack survivor, am sending healing energy and encouraging thoughts.  You will be pretty much back to ‘normal’ soon.  But be patient with the docs and with yourself.

    Meself was at eye surgeon for post-operative checkup on Thursday.  Eye healing very well, hoping operation on other eye – scheduled for first week of December – goes as well.  So have something to be thankful for, this Thanksgiving.

  169. 169.

    raven

    @Another Scott: Whew, I worked there right after the Olympics and they had the new natatorium

     

    When we trained our guards I often played the victim and I’d give them a real workout!

  171. 171.

    Soprano2

    @Halteclere:  There will never be a mask mandate in Missouri because Parson is dumb. You’d think he’d have some courage now that he’s been elected, but no. We have a mask mandate in Springfield, but our hospitals are full from the surrounding areas where there are no rules. Sorry about your dad, I hope he’s ok.

  172. 172.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): 

    Wrong… for example, Kroger affiliate Fred Meyer stores are going ahead with Black Friday because profits are far more important than keeping people safe from illness and death.

    It’s going to be a shit show.

  174. 174.

    satby

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):  So after finishing nursing school at a time of extreme crisis and shortage of medical personel, where you could generally make a starting salary of around $26/hour, you’ve decided to remain a grocery store cashier/bagger.

  175. 175.

    Barbara

    @CarolDuhart2: Is there anyway to do rehab by video link? It might not be safe, in which case, don’t do it, but maybe a gentle exercise routine? I like Leslie Sansone’s walking programs.

    Take care of yourself!

  176. 176.

    SectionH

    @CarolDuhart2: Damn. Glad you’re recuperating, but the lack of post-trauma (heart attack, stroke over here) coordination with follow-up care is really the pits. Best wishes, we’re pulling for you.

  179. 179.

    Ohio Mom

    Satby, I asked Goku that same question a while back. As I remember, he wanted to pass his licensing boards first, since keeping a nursing job would depend on that.

    Now (puts on best Stern Mother face) I hope he is studying hard for that test! We want to have a celebratory thread!

  182. 182.

    Another Scott

    On the lighter side…

    The long form is hardly better. Grenell was wrong. There’s no “debate” about whether HIPAA limits journalists any more than there’s a “debate” whether the First Amendment contains the word “Belgians.” There’s the right answer and the wrong answer. pic.twitter.com/N7Tct601SS

    — MichiganOrPossiblyMinnesotaHat (@Popehat) November 21, 2020

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  185. 185.

    satby

    @Barbara: yes, I saw that. Just was amused that Goku is worried about upping the minimum wage when he’s eligible for a better job and salary, but declines.

    Most of the women from my nursing class* (it was all women in 1975) are working now, in their mid-60s. Several with health issues who came out of retirement. It’s a crisis. And it’s a calling, not a job. Commonly one doesn’t enter the field to avoid sick people.

    * I am not a nurse, didn’t graduate (long and kind of funny story), later became an EMT. And I do work in an eye doctor’s office. I’ll cop to being judgemental, because that nursing school could have educated someone who would want to do the work.Edit: and I have long thought himself is a troll.

  186. 186.

    Mary G

    @Steeplejack: @SectionH: She’s going to; I shouldn’t have put that in there. The patient is a PITA rich Trumpista who has been paranoid about Covid since January – asked her to give up her other two patients – a quadriplegic and a 97-year-old – and send her son the teen to live with his grandparents so he wouldn’t get it, give it to his mom, and from her to the patient. She’s probably also asked her to move out of my house, too. There’s the everyday interrogation about where she’s been and who she’s seen.

    All this accusatory paranoia over a person who was already meticulous about hygiene and infection control way before the ‘Rona arrived on our shores. I used to wonder if she might be borderline OCD. She was annoyed that after nine months of being interrogated every day about possible transmission, it’s somebody the patient brings into the house that makes it possible. Plus she hates the thought of the long Qtip up the nose. She’s going to do it anyway.

  189. 189.

    J R in WV

    @Punchy:

    …I’m fresh out of fucks to give for these folks who won’t do what they’re told (masks) and refuse to take restrictions seriously. I feel horrible for the docs and nurses, but I’m clear into “let Darwin take it from here” mode on these rural populations. I guess I’m just heartless or something.

    I posted this on a thread below:

    My next door neighbor is an old time mountain music performer, has won blue ribbons at festival contests over the years. He also works on and rebuilds wooden string instruments, from Banjos and Guitars to antique violins. He corresponds with Davin Bromburg, who also works on such instruments.

    Before the Trump Plague he and his wife would have evening pot luck dinner parties with a dozen musicians playing  together. One of these musicians was a fiddler, also a RN studying to be Nurse Practitioner, very soon now, right next to being a doctor.

    She is barely recovering from Covid, slowly, slowly. You all probably know playing the fiddle is one of the most difficult instruments in terms of physical requirements. We are all hoping that she recovers well enough to participate in these neighborhood gatherings, once the Trump Plague is over. I fear she will not come to the potluck dinners if she can’t play with the crowd. Which would be a shame!

    The ill nurse is a wonderful person, and I hate that she caught Covid from some Republican ass who never wore a mask.

  191. 191.

    J R in WV

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    @NotMax:

    It won’t be in-person. It will be online shopping

    You are so wrong, Goku — people want to go fight for the best bargain, and will spread the Trumpian Plague while they compete for the best big screen TV. Despicable. I’ve never wanted to shop on “Black Party”!!! Don’t understand that at all.

  193. 193.

    Sebastian

    @Fair Economist:

    Well, that’s how exponential growth works. Looks like a joke at first, then kinda reasonable, then you look away for a second and your whole spaceship is full of Tribbles.

    There were a ton of private parties everywhere 10-14 days around Halloween, at least up here in LA.

  194. 194.

    SectionH

    @Mary G: “sigh of relief” – that sounds more like the housemate I thought you have!  I won’t say what I think of that old bitch, except I wish your Hm could fire her…
    You could tell your Hm “the long Qtip may not be as bad as she thinks. I had a Covid test a couple of weeks ago (complicated story, I had almost no Covid symptoms, and yeah, I was negative… so I still don’t know what was/is up) but they basically handed me a ~12” swab and told me how to insert it, and then move it around in each nostril. And that was it. I think that even if someone else does it, it looks mostly will look worse than it is.

  195. 195.

    J R in WV

    @CarolDuhart2:

    Heart attack on the first of November.  I got lucky, if luck is such a word for this.  I was a ble to get to the nearest hospital and I had several nurses to help me. …

    Probably too out of it to notice I was flying-but I’m afraid of heights, and every minute counts here too.

    While my wife was in the hospital, she had a roommate who keeled over on the golf course at a fabulous resort in SE WV. Was from Cincinnati. Life Flight to the hospital, straight into cardiac surgery for multiple stents, etc.

    Was ready to go home in 3 or 4 days. Of course this was years ago, so Covid wasn’t a feature of her recovery. Cardiac emergencies are not the crisis they were at one time, absent the Trump Plague.

    Glad you are recovering, take care, exercise as you can at home!

  198. 198.

    Another Scott

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: My mom went to nursing school just out of high school, but got married before she could finish.  It was her lifelong dream to get her certificate, she went back to school several times, and through her perseverance she eventually finished.  It really was a calling for her.

    It’s a much tougher job in many respects than it was decades ago.  I don’t know if my mom would have felt the same calling starting out now.  A neighbor a few doors down retired a few years ago because she couldn’t put up with the management issues at the hospital any more (12 hour shifts, lack of respect from the MDs, the workload, etc.).

    Nursing is an incredibly important job, but our “nurses are interchangeable cogs” system in too many places seems to do everything possible to drive good people away.

    Best of luck to your spawn, to Goku, and to everyone else who is trying to make a positive difference.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  201. 201.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @satby:

    and I have long thought himself is a troll.

    Excuse me for not wanting to die or have my health destroyed when I’m still young. And I’m not a troll. I still remember when you called me a “fuckhead” for buying masks for myself and my family when this pandemic started. I’m a frontline worker.

  202. 202.

    Ohio Mom

    To whom it may concern:

    Goku is an earnest and well-meaning young man who just finished working his way through school — he perseveres and is navigating a particularly fraught time for young adults (all the recent college grads I know are treading water right now).

    He lives on a part of Ohio that isn’t exactly thriving and still, is earning his way and making progress in finding his niche in the world. I think we should appreciate that a young seeks out our company — we do skew old here. Diversity is a good value to hold.

  203. 203.

    Ruckus

    @namekarB:

    A real risk of dying can bring out the best in anyone.

    And even if you feel the way you acted isn’t you, it is normal when you actually recognize real danger and work to avoid it. There is very little way we can not do some normal things, living in the world that we do and going to the store is one of them. Yes you can get delivery but that costs, quite a bit actually and you don’t actually always get what you want or you get produce that is at/past it’s not eatable date. So be proud that you actually took action to protect yourself and others around you. Life is too short to die for someone else’s stupidity.

  204. 204.

    Ruckus

    @Punchy:

    It’s or something.

    Others shouldn’t have to die because of absolute stupidity on the part of an entire political party. And that includes wars started for asinine reasons, not being realistic in the face of a pandemic, voting for a complete and utter disaster, who had been one for decades before running for president and who has come very close to destroying a country because he’s an absolute idiot, supported by other absolute idiots.

  208. 208.

    satby

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):  I called you a fuckhead because you were crowing about scoring like 100 N95 masks at a time when health care workers in NYC couldn’t get replacements and had to reuse PPE and make protection out of garbage bags. I still think that.

    Edit: and it’s possible for nurses who may be more susceptible to covid complications to work with non-covid patients and free up a less susceptible nurse for that work.

  209. 209.

    satby

    @Ohio Mom: I never said he wasn’t young or a real person. Don’t care whether he is it not really. I consider him a troll because he has a pattern of commenting to derail things.

Comments are closed.