Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Everybody saw this coming.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

You are here: Home / Balloon Juice / Commentary / Talk About Whatever You Want / Open Thread: Another Day, Another Crime, Another Grand Jury

Open Thread: Another Day, Another Crime, Another Grand Jury

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Grand Jury Convened by Alvin Bragg (NY)

Could this be the week that this comes true?

Open Thread: Another Day, Another Crime, Lawsuit, Grand Jury

Gradually, and then suddenly, or all at once.

This list doesn’t seem long enough, surely there is more!

Totally open thread.

 

 

Reader Interactions

114Comments

  2. 2.

    SpaceUnit

    What is the difference between an Open Thread and a Talk About Whatever You Want thread?

    I don’t want to cross any lines here.

  6. 6.

    bbleh

    I’ll believe it out of Bragg when I see it.  I’ll give better than even that this is just ass-covering.

    I do have hope for Jack “Sure That’s His Real Name” Smith.  Even if you’re only part Klingon, honor is still paramount.

  7. 7.

    mrmoshpotato

    Cole doesn’t want a blizzard anymore.

    Made it home with florida and I would like to have a stern word with someone about this white shit falling from the sky— John Cole (@Johngcole) January 31, 2023

    And “with Florida”? Did he steal a state literally and physically? Adam, BettyC, Cameron, Emma, did you feel a massive, prolonged earthquake?

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    @SpaceUnit:  Too often it seems that even if it says Open Thread, people will stick to whatever we use up top to start a conversation.

    I have found that if it also says Talk About Whatever You Want, we don’t necessarily end up just talking about the (in this case) two tweets up top and whatever text is there.

  11. 11.

    lowtechcyclist

    This list doesn’t seem long enough, surely there is more!

    The classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Maybe those charges aren’t yet ready for a grand jury, but their time is coming. Probably the closest to an open-and-shut case of all the charges against Cheeto Benito.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    @lowtechcyclist: I could be wrong, but I think that’s covered by Obstruction of Justice.

    Seems like that is part of what he will be charged for with the documents.  Not for merely (ahem) having the documents in his possession.

  17. 17.

    bbleh

    @SpaceUnit: @mrmoshpotato: @Baud: I would like to express my SERIOUS disagreement with the suggestion in the post AND in subsequent comments that there is no difference between Open Threads and Talk About Whatever You Want Threads.  I have been reading blogs since blah blah blah Windows 95 blah name-dropping Steve Gilliard Calpundit blah blah etc and I am OUTRAGED!

  24. 24.

    bbleh

    @WaterGirl: Far MORE likely IMO.  Espionage is difficult to prove for many reasons from what I understand, not least the necessity of revealing the information to a jury.  Obstruction OTOH doesn’t require that, and they have VIDEO of people moving boxes  around…

  25. 25.

    JoyceH

    @WaterGirl: Nothing wrong with a little competition. It worked for the Space Race. We should do it for Trump indictments. Hey, let’s do it for clean energy, start thumbing our nose at China about all the coal they burn. That Prestige thing really does work.

  32. 32.

    Sparkedcat

    Donald Trump will never serve a day in jail. He will be subject to multiple indictments, multiple arrests and multiple perpwalks. Donald Trump will die with the knowledge that his state funeral in the Capitol Rotunda will be desecrated by individuals willing to suffer arrest and imprisonment.

  34. 34.

    WaterGirl

    @Sparkedcat: I would settle for charges, guilty verdict, and home confinement with an ankle monitor, maximum one visitor a week, and use of internet prohibited.

    If he violates any of those things, he goes straight to jail.

  37. 37.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @bbleh: Why?  He could have easily and quietly closed the investigations.  He didn’t.  They continued and are now going to the next step.  He also hired attorneys who specialize in financial crimes.  That seems like an awful long way to go just to do an elaborate head-fake to please people (who won’t believe it anyway.). A much simpler explanation is that the case has more evidence, witnesses etc., now than it did a year ago.

  42. 42.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cacti:

    AG Garland is certainly taking his time, but I tend to think it’s because he wants to ensure that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s crossed, rather than any reluctance to prosecute TFG. Unless, of course, you have proof of the latter.

  49. 49.

    mrmoshpotato

    Is that Adam Sandler with a moustache?

    (Went to IMDB to look up Scorpion.  2014-18 apparently.)

    ETA – No, he wasn’t in Scorpion.  Some news about a Sandler/Jennifer Aniston show.

  50. 50.

    jackmac

    @Sparkedcat: I suppose there will have to be some kind of state funeral when TFG departs. Modest. Low key. Maybe in the middle of Fifth Ave. in NYC.   Bury him next to his ex-wife and the missing Top Secret files at Bedminster.

    Save the big sendoff for Jimmy Carter, one ex-President who really deserves all the accolades and honors a nation can bestow.

  51. 51.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @bbleh: “According to Section 793, Part D, it’s illegal to knowingly retain information that one believes could do damage to the US or aid another country and fail “to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it.”

    Sounds like it will be fairly easy to prove since Trump literally had folders with classified markings in his desk drawer, his attorneys warned him that it was illegal to keep them and he moved said documents even after the Govt asked for them several times.

  55. 55.

    cain

    @Alison Rose: Honestly, I feel like if we did get this guy into jail it would still be a nothingburger – because we need to get his henchmen. Trump is going to give up a lot of shit so we can go after all those members of congress.

    It’s too bad we got a lot of people who just want to see the country burn.

  56. 56.

    cain

    @mrmoshpotato: Perhaps he is like the American Hanuman – dude had to get a plant from this mountain, couldn’t find it. Took the whole mountain and brought it back.

  57. 57.

    bbleh

    @Cacti: @Amir Khalid: I continue to hold out hope that Amir Khalid is correct, but at a certain point, ensuring “that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s crossed” itself becomes a barrier to effective prosecution, if for no reason other than time runs out.

    It’s definitely true that in this case, “who strikes at the king must kill,” because they’ll have only one shot.  But at some point they’ve GOT to take the shot, if only because NOT doing so would be worse, even if the risk of failure is higher.

  60. 60.

    bbleh

    @UncleEbeneezer: Right, “believes.”  And seems to me that means either (1) convincing demonstration of intent or (2) some showing that he “should have known,” which in turn means revealing the nature of the information.

    If he says “I declassified it with the power of my Presidential mind, so it wasn’t a risk,” how do you prove he doesn’t believe that?  (Hell, he really might!)  And in that case you’re stuck with showing the jury the information and arguing that nobody could NOT know.  And the information most likely to convince them of that is precisely the kind of information you DON’T want to show anybody.

  62. 62.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @bbleh: “Though Trump agreed to release the search warrant and receipts of what the DOJ took from Mar-a-Lago, he has offered several excuses for having the documents in his possession, falsely claiming that former President Barack Obama also retained classified documents, floating the idea that evidence had been planted at Mar-a-Lago, and saying he declassified all the documents in his possession, which could be true but wouldn’t save him from legal penalty. There’s currently no record of such an action, and some national security documents could carry heavy penalties for improper storage whether or not they’re technically classified.”

  65. 65.

    SpaceUnit

    I’ll be surprised as hell if the TFG does any time.  I think our judiciary and law enforcement agencies are just too squeamish to go all-out after an ex-president.  Having a former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest.

    I think the best we can hope for is that he’ll be hounded for the rest of his life by civil actions and that he will be miserable and bitter.

  67. 67.

    SpaceUnit

    @WaterGirl:

    Dear God I hope so.

     

    ETA:   I think he’s still entertaining some spark of hope though, the idea that he can once more return to glory, and I would like to see that hope snuffed out.

  70. 70.

    Layer8Problem

    @SpaceUnit:  And yet not going all out after an ex-president who went all in on criming puts a big sign on the Oval Office that says “Open for Criminal Activity!  Just Get Elected!”

    Having a former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest.

    A tragic, heartbreaking image.  Strangely, I’m totally down with it.

  71. 71.

    bbleh

    @UncleEbeneezer: True, *IF* you can convince a jury that they’re “national security documents.”  And as noted, classification status is not dispositive; the jury still has to decide that they’re “national security documents” (or more specifically as I understand it, that revealing the information in the documents would create a risk to national security).  And unless they’re willing to take classification status as proof — and remember that there is an argument that Trump declassified them with his mighty powers — then you have to reveal at least something about the information in them

    Not trying to take his side here, only to say that an obstruction case is probably easier and safer to make than an espionage one.

  72. 72.

    SpaceUnit

    @Layer8Problem:

    I actually have no disagreement with you.

    ETA:  Okay I have just the one.  Having him rotting in a cell will surely make him a martyr to his loathsome followers and could further fuel their fascist designs.

  74. 74.

    zhena gogolia

    @cain: Getting a former president of the United States into jail would be a nothingburger?

    It’s not going to happen, but I can’t believe you are saying it would be a nothingburger.

  75. 75.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SpaceUnit:

    Having him rotting in a cell will surely make him a martyr to his loathsome followers and could further fuel their fascist designs. 

    Yeah.  The cult that he has is a problem.

  78. 78.

    Leslie

    I am happy to see more investigation of the criming, though I would be happier to see some of them bear fruit beyond adding more frustration and misery to his already miserable existence. But the way he’s stuck like glue to MAL instead of campaigning suggests to me that he no longer has a waking moment of peace, which is some tiny measure of justice. It has always bothered me greatly that Dubya seems to be leading a calm, serene life, untroubled by all the suffering and death he’s responsible for.

  80. 80.

    SpaceUnit

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @Layer8Problem:

    Yeah.  There’s a part of me that wants to see that SOB behind bars as much as anybody.  But realistically I feel that it might be best if he’s just as miserable and irrelevant and humiliated as possible outside the prison walls.

  81. 81.

    brantl

    @Leslie: It bothers me more that Cheney does the same.  Bush was just the sock-puppet. If Bush smiles widely enough, you recognize Cheney’s fingernails right behind W’s teeth,.

  85. 85.

    Leslie

    @brantl: Agreed absolutely about their respective roles, but Darth was never going to feel a moment’s regret. The reason Dubya bothers me more is that he actually had some shreds of human decency hidden away, which he ruthlessly smothered for the sake of power.

  87. 87.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @bbleh: I used to say about Dubya, if I could lay a curse on him it would be lucid self-awareness. That would be difficult for Bush, it might leave trump babbling in a corner sobbing himself to death. After a long time, I hope

  88. 88.

    NotMax

    @AliceBlue

    Awwww.

    FYI, The First Nudie Musical (in which she co-starred – clothed, mind you) currently available on Tubi and Freevee (Prime).

  89. 89.

    Mallard Filmore

    Is the Stormy Daniels case part of your list? Michael Cohen is making the talk show rounds saying that he was talking to prosecutors.

  90. 90.

    Leslie

    Since this is an open/TAWYW thread, referring back to the grizzly/polar hybrids from the Fun Facts thread:

    Pizzlies and Grolars are both really stupid, ugly names for them. Canadian wildlife officials have suggested Nanulak, from the Inuit words nanuk (polar bear) and aklak (grizzly bear). Much better.

  91. 91.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @SpaceUnit: The only way we get to a less corrupt country is if crooks like DJT serve time for their crimes. His cult will freak out no matter what happens. That should never be a justification letting him do as he pleases without consequences. Everyone needs to be equal before the law.

  92. 92.

    SpaceUnit

    @bbleh:

    Yeah.  I believe that even the worst among us deserve empathy. There’s not one among us who is the sole architect of their own soul.

     

    But sweet Christ, some people make it hard.

  97. 97.

    CaseyL

    The movement he gave new life to is more dangerous than Trump is at this point.  I read that his “rally” in South Carolina only had about 200 people turn up.  He has a loser image now; his followers want someone who can still do a fiery 2 Minute Hate.  I don’t know if that’s DeSantis, or someone we’re not paying much attention to yet.

    I do want him in jail, because I don’t want every US President from here on out thinking they can do whatever they like and never go to prison for it.

    Though, granted, that precedent was first set in 1974, and solidified pretty good in 2000-2008, when Bush/Cheney proved you could leave the US vulnerable to a terrorist attack on a major city without consequence, drown another American city through neglect and again face no consequences, start an idiotic war that destabilizes an already-volatile region and uproot millions of refugees and still get re-elected, establish torture and indefinite imprisonment without due process as official American policy and be hailed as He-Men-doing-what-must-be-done…

    Each GOP President is worse than the last.  God knows what kind of ambulatory sentient tapeworm they’ll coalesce around in 2024.

  100. 100.

    El Muneco

    @SpaceUnit: ” Having a former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest.”

    _NOT_ having this former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest…

  103. 103.

    SpaceUnit

    @El Muneco:

    Your point is well taken.

     

    Sucks being a lib and having to consider all things from so many angles.  It would be so much easier to be a Republican.

  106. 106.

    SpaceUnit

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I understand that Germany imprisoned one of its would-be fascists dictators as well.  Although I suppose you could make the argument that their mistake was letting him out.

  108. 108.

    ian

    @Sparkedcat:

    the knowledge that his state funeral in the Capitol Rotunda will be desecrated by individuals willing to suffer arrest and imprisonment.

    I would describe them as tourists expressing legitimate political discourse.

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Leslie:

    It has always bothered me greatly that Dubya seems to be leading a calm, serene life, untroubled by all the suffering and death he’s responsible for.

    You aren’t the only one. He (and Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and the rest of that gang) should be tried for war crimes at The Hague. They knew the justifications they came up with for the invasion were bullshit. Then Saddam let them inspect the supposed WMD sites and they found nothing.  And they had a list of other suspected WMD sites and didn’t take the trouble to have our army secure them as it invaded. (Barton Gellman reported on this last bit in the WaPo in early May 2003.) They didn’t give a damn about the WMDs, they were just the most plausible excuse they could come up with for invading.

    And hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed in the ensuing chaos.

  112. 112.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    The only way we get to a less corrupt country is if crooks like DJT serve time for their crimes. His cult will freak out no matter what happens. That should never be a justification letting him do as he pleases without consequences. Everyone needs to be equal before the law.

    Damn straight.

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    The only way we get to a less corrupt country is if crooks like DJT serve time for their crimes. His cult will freak out no matter what happens. That should never be a justification letting him do as he pleases without consequences. Everyone needs to be equal before the law.

    Yes.  All of this!

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