Grand Jury Convened by Alvin Bragg (NY)
Could this be the week that this comes true?
Gradually, and then suddenly, or all at once.
Please update your crime trackers:
Election interference (GA)
Fraud (NY)
Sexual Assault/Battery (NY)
Bribery (NY)
Election interference (DOJ)
Obstruction of Justice (DOJ)
Seditious conspiracy (DOJ)*𝘥𝘰𝘦𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘦 𝘤𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘴
— Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) January 30, 2023
This list doesn’t seem long enough, surely there is more!
Totally open thread.
Alison Rose
At this point, I want to see TFG convicted of something (anything) criminal just because I could really use the laugh it would give me.
SpaceUnit
What is the difference between an Open Thread and a Talk About Whatever You Want thread?
I don’t want to cross any lines here.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
He has the best crimes.
mrmoshpotato
@SpaceUnit: No difference.
Baud
@SpaceUnit:
The first rule of Open Threads. Do not talk about Open Threads.
bbleh
I’ll believe it out of Bragg when I see it. I’ll give better than even that this is just ass-covering.
I do have hope for Jack “Sure That’s His Real Name” Smith. Even if you’re only part Klingon, honor is still paramount.
mrmoshpotato
Cole doesn’t want a blizzard anymore.
And “with Florida”? Did he steal a state literally and physically? Adam, BettyC, Cameron, Emma, did you feel a massive, prolonged earthquake?
WaterGirl
@SpaceUnit: Too often it seems that even if it says Open Thread, people will stick to whatever we use up top to start a conversation.
I have found that if it also says Talk About Whatever You Want, we don’t necessarily end up just talking about the (in this case) two tweets up top and whatever text is there.
schrodingers_cat
Prediction: Whatever indictments come down, do-something-Twitter will pooh pooh it.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: At this point, maybe it’s a competition between Alvin Bragg and Fani Willis for who can charge him with something first?
lowtechcyclist
The classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Maybe those charges aren’t yet ready for a grand jury, but their time is coming. Probably the closest to an open-and-shut case of all the charges against Cheeto Benito.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: Did Cole ever want a blizzard? Especially a welcome home blizzard?
Cameron
@mrmoshpotato: No, but I sensed a disturbance in The Force.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: And the first rule of Baud 20XX is always talk about Baud 20XX.
UncleEbeneezer
@SpaceUnit: The only topic out of bounds for Open Threads is the subject of Open Threads.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: I could be wrong, but I think that’s covered by Obstruction of Justice.
Seems like that is part of what he will be charged for with the documents. Not for merely (ahem) having the documents in his possession.
bbleh
@SpaceUnit: @mrmoshpotato: @Baud: I would like to express my SERIOUS disagreement with the suggestion in the post AND in subsequent comments that there is no difference between Open Threads and Talk About Whatever You Want Threads. I have been reading blogs since blah blah blah Windows 95 blah name-dropping Steve Gilliard Calpundit blah blah etc and I am OUTRAGED!
WaterGirl
What’s the bribery charge in NY? I’ve lost track.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: Maybe they should scratch “too little, too late” into their foreheads. Backwards.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: Yeah Fani Willis has said indictments are “imminent.” So her probably even sooner than Jack STHRN Smith.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: I would love to hear your description of the difference.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: If he told you his real name, he’d have to kill you.
Cacti
Somebody has to do the job that Merrick Garland won’t.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: Far MORE likely IMO. Espionage is difficult to prove for many reasons from what I understand, not least the necessity of revealing the information to a jury. Obstruction OTOH doesn’t require that, and they have VIDEO of people moving boxes around…
JoyceH
@WaterGirl: Nothing wrong with a little competition. It worked for the Space Race. We should do it for Trump indictments. Hey, let’s do it for clean energy, start thumbing our nose at China about all the coal they burn. That Prestige thing really does work.
SpaceUnit
@mrmoshpotato:
@Baud:
Okay I just wanted to make sure.
This blog is known for its merciless pedantry. I didn’t want to get pulled over by the Balloon Juice SCORPION unit.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: Humans can’t pronounce it correctly anyway.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: Too tired to make something up. But rest assured I am OUTRAGED.
SpaceUnit
@UncleEbeneezer:
Then thank God this isn’t an Open Thread.
Spanky
@mrmoshpotato:
If you think of Florida as a disease it makes perfect sense.
WaterGirl
@JoyceH: Whatever works! Just win, baby!
Sparkedcat
Donald Trump will never serve a day in jail. He will be subject to multiple indictments, multiple arrests and multiple perpwalks. Donald Trump will die with the knowledge that his state funeral in the Capitol Rotunda will be desecrated by individuals willing to suffer arrest and imprisonment.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: December 22nd
Might’ve been the COVID talking though.
WaterGirl
@Sparkedcat: I would settle for charges, guilty verdict, and home confinement with an ankle monitor, maximum one visitor a week, and use of internet prohibited.
If he violates any of those things, he goes straight to jail.
Sure Lurkalot
@bbleh: Spock!
mrmoshpotato
@bbleh: LOL!
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: Why? He could have easily and quietly closed the investigations. He didn’t. They continued and are now going to the next step. He also hired attorneys who specialize in financial crimes. That seems like an awful long way to go just to do an elaborate head-fake to please people (who won’t believe it anyway.). A much simpler explanation is that the case has more evidence, witnesses etc., now than it did a year ago.
WaterGirl
@SpaceUnit: I liked the TV show Scorpion.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Me too!
SpaceUnit
@WaterGirl:
Never heard of it. What vintage?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Is it a new show?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
AG Garland is certainly taking his time, but I tend to think it’s because he wants to ensure that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s crossed, rather than any reluctance to prosecute TFG. Unless, of course, you have proof of the latter.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
No. A few years old.
mrmoshpotato
@SpaceUnit:
I would argue that it’s merciful pedantry. Free
Re-Neducation.Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: I’d prefer it if the “home” wasn’t MAL, but I suppose they can’t force him to move to a studio apartment.
Sparkedcat
@WaterGirl: Donald Trump will die before any conviction is upheld upon appeal. His only judgement will be indictment and arrest.
SpaceUnit
@mrmoshpotato:
Okay, now you’re just being pedantic.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I can’t believe that came on in 2014, ended in 2017. Yikes.
mrmoshpotato
Is that Adam Sandler with a moustache?
(Went to IMDB to look up Scorpion. 2014-18 apparently.)
ETA – No, he wasn’t in Scorpion. Some news about a Sandler/Jennifer Aniston show.
jackmac
@Sparkedcat: I suppose there will have to be some kind of state funeral when TFG departs. Modest. Low key. Maybe in the middle of Fifth Ave. in NYC. Bury him next to his ex-wife and the missing Top Secret files at Bedminster.
Save the big sendoff for Jimmy Carter, one ex-President who really deserves all the accolades and honors a nation can bestow.
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: “According to Section 793, Part D, it’s illegal to knowingly retain information that one believes could do damage to the US or aid another country and fail “to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it.”
Sounds like it will be fairly easy to prove since Trump literally had folders with classified markings in his desk drawer, his attorneys warned him that it was illegal to keep them and he moved said documents even after the Govt asked for them several times.
bbleh
@mrmoshpotato: Lol back.
“Really, this hurts me more than it hurts you.”
Frankensteinbeck
@mrmoshpotato:
It’s all just laying the groundwork for Baud 3016. His slogan will be “1000 Years Later Than The Nick Of Time!”
@bbleh:
OUTRAGED, sirrah!
mrmoshpotato
@UncleEbeneezer: I really want to know who his lawyers are. Who in their right mind would work for a known conman with a reputation for ripping off people?
cain
@Alison Rose: Honestly, I feel like if we did get this guy into jail it would still be a nothingburger – because we need to get his henchmen. Trump is going to give up a lot of shit so we can go after all those members of congress.
It’s too bad we got a lot of people who just want to see the country burn.
cain
@mrmoshpotato: Perhaps he is like the American Hanuman – dude had to get a plant from this mountain, couldn’t find it. Took the whole mountain and brought it back.
bbleh
@Cacti: @Amir Khalid: I continue to hold out hope that Amir Khalid is correct, but at a certain point, ensuring “that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s crossed” itself becomes a barrier to effective prosecution, if for no reason other than time runs out.
It’s definitely true that in this case, “who strikes at the king must kill,” because they’ll have only one shot. But at some point they’ve GOT to take the shot, if only because NOT doing so would be worse, even if the risk of failure is higher.
cain
@Spanky: I just realized he probably means he found Florida Evans from “Good TImes” sitcom. :)
Baud
@cain:
Did Hanuman lose his mustard too?
bbleh
@UncleEbeneezer: Right, “believes.” And seems to me that means either (1) convincing demonstration of intent or (2) some showing that he “should have known,” which in turn means revealing the nature of the information.
If he says “I declassified it with the power of my Presidential mind, so it wasn’t a risk,” how do you prove he doesn’t believe that? (Hell, he really might!) And in that case you’re stuck with showing the jury the information and arguing that nobody could NOT know. And the information most likely to convince them of that is precisely the kind of information you DON’T want to show anybody.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: MAL with no visitors and no golf, that would be hell. So near and yet so far.
UncleEbeneezer
DivF
@WaterGirl: And no air-conditioning.
WaterGirl
@DivF: That seems harsh. Maybe the air conditioning could be set at a nice, comfy 82-85 degrees?
SpaceUnit
I’ll be surprised as hell if the TFG does any time. I think our judiciary and law enforcement agencies are just too squeamish to go all-out after an ex-president. Having a former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest.
I think the best we can hope for is that he’ll be hounded for the rest of his life by civil actions and that he will be miserable and bitter.
WaterGirl
@SpaceUnit: You don’t think he’s miserable and bitter already?
SpaceUnit
@WaterGirl:
Dear God I hope so.
ETA: I think he’s still entertaining some spark of hope though, the idea that he can once more return to glory, and I would like to see that hope snuffed out.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl:
I was gonna say!
HumboldtBlue
@WaterGirl:
I just noticed a spelling error in the Wall Street Journal rotating tag, spelled Wreet instead of street.
Layer8Problem
@SpaceUnit: And yet not going all out after an ex-president who went all in on criming puts a big sign on the Oval Office that says “Open for Criminal Activity! Just Get Elected!”
A tragic, heartbreaking image. Strangely, I’m totally down with it.
bbleh
@UncleEbeneezer: True, *IF* you can convince a jury that they’re “national security documents.” And as noted, classification status is not dispositive; the jury still has to decide that they’re “national security documents” (or more specifically as I understand it, that revealing the information in the documents would create a risk to national security). And unless they’re willing to take classification status as proof — and remember that there is an argument that Trump declassified them with his mighty powers — then you have to reveal at least something about the information in them
Not trying to take his side here, only to say that an obstruction case is probably easier and safer to make than an espionage one.
SpaceUnit
@Layer8Problem:
I actually have no disagreement with you.
ETA: Okay I have just the one. Having him rotting in a cell will surely make him a martyr to his loathsome followers and could further fuel their fascist designs.
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: Fixed, thank you!
zhena gogolia
@cain: Getting a former president of the United States into jail would be a nothingburger?
It’s not going to happen, but I can’t believe you are saying it would be a nothingburger.
mrmoshpotato
@SpaceUnit:
Yeah. The cult that he has is a problem.
Layer8Problem
@SpaceUnit: Fascists gonna fascist. The boat parades demanding he be freed should be entertaining at least.
Bill Arnold
@WaterGirl:
Justice, for Mr. D.J.T, is about making him more miserable.
Leslie
I am happy to see more investigation of the criming, though I would be happier to see some of them bear fruit beyond adding more frustration and misery to his already miserable existence. But the way he’s stuck like glue to MAL instead of campaigning suggests to me that he no longer has a waking moment of peace, which is some tiny measure of justice. It has always bothered me greatly that Dubya seems to be leading a calm, serene life, untroubled by all the suffering and death he’s responsible for.
brantl
@SpaceUnit: He also acts as in indicator of what happens when you FAFO.
SpaceUnit
@mrmoshpotato:
@Layer8Problem:
Yeah. There’s a part of me that wants to see that SOB behind bars as much as anybody. But realistically I feel that it might be best if he’s just as miserable and irrelevant and humiliated as possible outside the prison walls.
brantl
@Leslie: It bothers me more that Cheney does the same. Bush was just the sock-puppet. If Bush smiles widely enough, you recognize Cheney’s fingernails right behind W’s teeth,.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Indeed. And those tweets get tons of likes on Twitter.
SpaceUnit
@brantl:
I’m imagining for him some figurative prison that’s actually worse than an actual prison.
AliceBlue
RIP Cindy Williams
Leslie
@brantl: Agreed absolutely about their respective roles, but Darth was never going to feel a moment’s regret. The reason Dubya bothers me more is that he actually had some shreds of human decency hidden away, which he ruthlessly smothered for the sake of power.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: @SpaceUnit: @Bill Arnold: I think his entire life is a hell of insecurity, a BIG chunk of which is due to his despicable louse of a father. It’s almost enough to make you feel sorry for him. Almost.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@bbleh: I used to say about Dubya, if I could lay a curse on him it would be lucid self-awareness. That would be difficult for Bush, it might leave trump babbling in a corner sobbing himself to death. After a long time, I hope
NotMax
@AliceBlue
Awwww.
FYI, The First Nudie Musical (in which she co-starred – clothed, mind you) currently available on Tubi and Freevee (Prime).
Mallard Filmore
Is the Stormy Daniels case part of your list? Michael Cohen is making the talk show rounds saying that he was talking to prosecutors.
Leslie
Since this is an open/TAWYW thread, referring back to the grizzly/polar hybrids from the Fun Facts thread:
Pizzlies and Grolars are both really stupid, ugly names for them. Canadian wildlife officials have suggested Nanulak, from the Inuit words nanuk (polar bear) and aklak (grizzly bear). Much better.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@SpaceUnit: The only way we get to a less corrupt country is if crooks like DJT serve time for their crimes. His cult will freak out no matter what happens. That should never be a justification letting him do as he pleases without consequences. Everyone needs to be equal before the law.
SpaceUnit
@bbleh:
Yeah. I believe that even the worst among us deserve empathy. There’s not one among us who is the sole architect of their own soul.
But sweet Christ, some people make it hard.
NotMax
@Leslie
Dunno. Nanulak sounds like a brand of laxative.
cain
This is a great write up on the DOJ investigation:
https://terikanefield.com/all-new-doj-investigation-faqs/
SpaceUnit
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I did not suggest that there should not be consequences.
Leslie
@NotMax: Still miles better than either of the alternatives.
CaseyL
The movement he gave new life to is more dangerous than Trump is at this point. I read that his “rally” in South Carolina only had about 200 people turn up. He has a loser image now; his followers want someone who can still do a fiery 2 Minute Hate. I don’t know if that’s DeSantis, or someone we’re not paying much attention to yet.
I do want him in jail, because I don’t want every US President from here on out thinking they can do whatever they like and never go to prison for it.
Though, granted, that precedent was first set in 1974, and solidified pretty good in 2000-2008, when Bush/Cheney proved you could leave the US vulnerable to a terrorist attack on a major city without consequence, drown another American city through neglect and again face no consequences, start an idiotic war that destabilizes an already-volatile region and uproot millions of refugees and still get re-elected, establish torture and indefinite imprisonment without due process as official American policy and be hailed as He-Men-doing-what-must-be-done…
Each GOP President is worse than the last. God knows what kind of ambulatory sentient tapeworm they’ll coalesce around in 2024.
Michael Bersin
@bbleh:
The Great Orange Satan turned to orange and everyone went bonkers, arms wide open, when the walls fell…
mrmoshpotato
@Leslie: Have polar bears and grizzly bears been getting it on with each other?
El Muneco
@SpaceUnit: ” Having a former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest.”
_NOT_ having this former president rotting in a cell makes us look like a third world country and invites more political unrest…
Omnes Omnibus
@SpaceUnit: The French and English both imprisoned former heads of state. More than once.
mvr
@jackmac: I think either Russia or Saudi Arabia will be throwing him the state funeral. (Possibly also Florida.)
SpaceUnit
@El Muneco:
Your point is well taken.
Sucks being a lib and having to consider all things from so many angles. It would be so much easier to be a Republican.
NotMax
@El Muneco
Fitting for a narcissistic sociopathic ignoramus who operated as a third world autocrat.
Let the Punishment Fit the Crime.
//
mvr
@mrmoshpotato: In fact they have. Apparently they are seeing more of each other as polar bear habitat is disappearing.
SpaceUnit
@Omnes Omnibus:
I understand that Germany imprisoned one of its would-be fascists dictators as well. Although I suppose you could make the argument that their mistake was letting him out.
moops
Left out extortion for his Perfect Phone Call with Ukraine.
ian
@Sparkedcat:
I would describe them as tourists expressing legitimate political discourse.
NotMax
@
Hours for visitation: 8 to 5.
Hours for urination: 5 to 8.
.
NotMax
Whoops. #109 should be @ian.
Sorry ’bout that.
lowtechcyclist
@Leslie:
You aren’t the only one. He (and Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and the rest of that gang) should be tried for war crimes at The Hague. They knew the justifications they came up with for the invasion were bullshit. Then Saddam let them inspect the supposed WMD sites and they found nothing. And they had a list of other suspected WMD sites and didn’t take the trouble to have our army secure them as it invaded. (Barton Gellman reported on this last bit in the WaPo in early May 2003.) They didn’t give a damn about the WMDs, they were just the most plausible excuse they could come up with for invading.
And hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed in the ensuing chaos.
lowtechcyclist
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Damn straight.
WaterGirl
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yes. All of this!
Denali5
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony,
Yes. You said it.