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Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Optimism opens the door to great things.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

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I was promised a recession.

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I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Democrats are back in array!

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Cold Grey Dawn Indictment Open Thread: Current Status

Cold Grey Dawn Indictment Open Thread: Current Status

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Best quickie aggregate I can provide, so that commentors who don’t want to face this over breakfast can just jump to the next thread:

Vulgar (i.e., media) gossip:

A second source close to Trump says “Trusty knows the special counsel” and is expected to try to work with Rowley and Blanche to figure out exactly how to play the next step, which will be a move to dismiss/formal attempt to question special counsel and especially DOJ’s Bratt.

Monday’s mtg. with DOJ didn’t go well. It was mostly the Trump team laying out their concerns and the DOJ officials listening. This was not a negotiation or a friendly “let’s see where things stand” meeting, per multiple people briefed on it… Blanche didn’t go but was briefed

The Florida factor has thrown Trump’s team for a loop since it wasn’t always expected but they believe the DOJ has been looking hard at jurisdictional challenges, thinking ahead… another factor that has several longtime Trump people on edge: MEADOWS

“Why the f— has he been so quiet?” one Trump ally fumed in recent days. Confusion about whether Meadows has cut a deal or not, lots of guessing about what his attorney, George Terwilliger, is telling him to do as he faces mounting pressure on Jan. 6 case (remember the texts).

People who know Jack Smith personally have repeatedly told Trump’s lawyers and friends that he’s somewhat friendly as a person, but a killer as a prosecutor, per several people who are close to Trump team. “He’s known as someone who will push and push and push,” one says.

A law enforcement official says US Secret Service will be meeting tomorrow Friday with former president Trump’s staff and his security officers and agents assigned to him to develop a plan for Trump’s travel and appearance for arraignment, per CBS’s Pat Milton

Speaking tonight to key strategists w/ several top contenders, evident that for now this isn’t internally being tracked as an opening for rival camps. They think GOP voters will mostly rally to his side. But they also believe that once Georgia comes, Trump pol. bleed out possible

Learning lots of new info as of 10 p.m. ET tonight… this is a grave, serious case in the eyes of many law-enforcement sources… those who know Jack Smith say he would NEVER bring charges of this nature unless he had tons of testimony and evidence and is convinced he will win

According to a former federal prosecutor, proving obstruction is very difficult and to bring this charge likely means there is a lot of specific evidence in the hands of the special counsel. He is described as someone who would hesistate to bring that charge unless it was nailed.

Two campaigns to watch in the coming days: Christie and Pence. Christie is a former U.S. attorney who is willing and able to take on Trump, not just on the political front but the legal one. Has a grasp of the seriousness of Smith and the case, can respond with authority on both.

Pence, meanwhile, just jumped into the race and directly challenged his former running mate’s respect for the Constitution and the rule of law. A witness in the Jan. 6 grand jury and a rival all at once, and someone who had classified docs but can say the feds dropped the probe.

Caring is sharing!

Meanwhile, the ‘defense’ will *never* rest!


(Star Trek: Next Generation reference – to a society whose members communicate entirely through allusions to their ‘classic’ myths)

Reader Interactions

68Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Shorter Republicans: Proper use of criminal law will justify our improper use of criminal law.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    I’m interested in seeing how Christie plays this. He has pitched himself as the candidate with the courage to take on Trump.

  3. 3.

    satby

    Missed all the hoo-ha yesterday. Mea-culpas owed (not by me) to Merrick Garland. Now, let’s see if voir dire can uncover 12 people in Florida more loyal to their nation and Constitution than to tfg.

  4. 4.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Fox’s Mark Levin: “President Trump is 76 years old. If the Department of Justice gets its way, he will die in federal prison.”

    I hope and pray each day that Trump will die in federal prison. It’s the perfect destination for an unrepentant fascist

    Mark Levin needs to be sedated.

  5. 5.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Christie may wait to comment until the indictments are unsealed. That would be the smarter play. Then he can pull his “as a former prosecutor…” schtick.

    Ed. Christie may also slam DeSantis for not waiting for the indictments to be unsealed. Christie is seen as an anti-Trump hit man, but I think he’ll work DeSantis over also in this campaign. DeSantis is an easy target.

  6. 6.

    MisterDancer

    I’m going to go a bit off-topic.

    I hear a lot of people complaining about how long this is taking. I’m the inverse — too many cases where lower-case justice didn’t take it’s time, didn’t get all the facts right, didn’t go in with care…and basically knew that the defendant(s) lacked the money and power to refute the allegations. And there are FAR more cases like that, cases where people are building legal careers off the downtrotten and destitute, than cases like what Trump has done to America.

    And, arguably, had we taken more care with ensuring the right people get the right justice, there would be enough people on the voting rolls to have made a difference in 2016, when it mattered. Maybe even before.

    If people use these situations to argue that we need to seriously reform how we do prosecutions in America, I’m all ears. Otherwise, I don’t even know what they are saying we, as a country, need to do to resolve these issues in future. I will weight their opinions, accordingly.

  7. 7.

    MomSense

    Really, Ben.  If someone likes things they can take them?  I wonder what would happen if I tried that out at the mall today.
    These GOP influencers are so infuriatingly stupid..

  9. 9.

    Matt McIrvin

    @MisterDancer: Often we hear about powerful people being arrested and rapidly convicted for seditious or other criminal activity in other countries and people complain that it’s not happening here. Teri Kanefield has pointed out that these countries are usually pretty terrible on civil liberties and rights of the accused in general. If we’re slower than they are it’s probably not a bad thing.

    The comparison to justice for rich powerful white guys vs. everyone else is similar–as you said, it’s not that we need to be sloppier about proving cases against the powerful.

  11. 11.

    MisterDancer

    @Matt McIrvin: If we’re slower than they are it’s probably not a bad thing.

    I’m pretty sure I said that I felt there were too many cases that were too fast in a negative way, yes?

    My point is that we’re so obsessed with “swift” justice that we allow it in many case where slowing down might be useful. AND that complaining about the speed of these prosecutions w/o making a larger point of advocating for fixing things makes me look side-eyed at those opinions.

  12. 12.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: When a Republican is in office, he’s immune from prosecution. When a Republican is not in office, it’s illegitimate banana-republic behavior to prosecute him.

    Put them together: a Republican President is rightly above the law forever and has a license to freely commit crimes. They’re not even really crimes. He could shoot a guy on 5th Avenue and it becomes the right thing to do.

  13. 13.

    Splitting Image

    I’ve given up trying to explain to the left why burning the world down to obtain justice is a bad idea. I’ll just say if Biden loses in 2024, he, Hunter, and many others better have lawyers asap. The Rubicon has been crossed. Guilt won’t matter. The pain of litigation will.
    — Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) June 9, 2023

    This is, of course, the man who called David Souter a “goat-fucking child molester” because he served the cause of justice on the Supreme Court rather than promoting conservative ideas.

    These fuckers crossed the Rubicon decades ago. Guilt never mattered to them.

  15. 15.

    lowtechcyclist

    Daniel Dale, above:

    No, Trump didn’t follow the Presidential Records Act. No, Obama and the Bushes didn’t take millions of papers. No, the feds couldn’t have just asked nicely. No, 1,850 Biden boxes haven’t vanished. Fact check on Trump’s blizzard of documents dishonesty:

    But evangelicals will continue to repeat all of these lies because they bear false witness almost as easily as breathing.

    Nine-commandment Christians, my friends and I used to call them.  (These days, I think even that number is a bit too high.)

  16. 16.

    RSA

    Trump mishandled classified documents “not for any nefarious purpose, but because Trump likes things and so he takes them”

    Similarly, Jack Smith has no nefarious motives, but Smith likes convicting criminals and so he convicts them.

  17. 17.

    kalakal

    Fox’s Mark Levin: “President Trump is 76 years old. If the Department of Justice gets its way, he will die in federal prison.”

    Your point being?

  18. 18.

    Brit in Chicago

    @Splitting Image: “These fuckers crossed the Rubicon decades ago. ”

    Yes, this. I remember the Benghazi hearings grilling HRC for openly political purposes. She showed the mettle, the intelligence and the integrity, which would have made her a good President. They never laid a glove on her because she actually had done nothing wrong. I don’t know about Hunter Biden, but I bet that his father has also done wrong. In my book that’s a crucial difference between him and the rightly reviled fg (but then I’m old-fashioned, and think that truth matters).

    Sorry for the rant.

  19. 19.

    hueyplong

    I’m all for Trump dying in prison but if he wants to die (as did his role model) by his own hand instead, well, that’s OK too.

    I’m starting to become a glass-half-full kind of person.

  20. 20.

    mrmoshpotato

    (thread/tonight) What I'm hearing… Trump is frustrated not just with the indictment but with people in his inner circle who reassured him for months that it was very unlikely to happen… source close to Trump says "too much happy talk for way too long" about what could happen— Robert Costa (@costareports) June 9, 2023

    Cry! Harder! You traitorous, orange shitstain!

  21. 21.

    hueyplong

    @Brit in Chicago: Sometimes it’s fun to contemplate the fact that the GOPers couldn’t find 10 seconds of Killary’s 11 hours of testimony to use in political ads.

  22. 22.

    lowtechcyclist

    @MisterDancer:

    I’m the inverse — too many cases where lower-case justice didn’t take it’s time, didn’t get all the facts right, didn’t go in with care…and basically knew that the defendant(s) lacked the money and power to refute the allegations. And there are FAR more cases like that, cases where people are building legal careers off the downtrotten and destitute, than cases like what Trump has done to America.

    Truth.

    If people use these situations to argue that we need to seriously reform how we do prosecutions in America, I’m all ears. Otherwise, I don’t even know what they are saying we, as a country, need to do to resolve these issues in future. I will weight their opinions, accordingly.

    This is one big reason I contribute to Daniel Nichanian’s Bolts magazine.  It pays a lot of attention to races for prosecutor, sheriff, and other law enforcement-related positions.  They’re doing their bit to get people into those positions who aren’t going to lock up the poor at the drop of a hat.

  24. 24.

    Ocotillo

    Trump and his team claiming to need a change of venue will probably happen in Florida since the city is not “red” enough for them.  They would want the trial in Grandin, Misery or some such place.

  25. 25.

    p.a.

    IsFox “News” bordering the screen with black?  Mourning crepe on the newsdesks?  Or using “no quarter” flags? 😂

  26. 26.

    mrmoshpotato

    Confusion about whether Meadows has cut a deal or not, lots of guessing about what his attorney, George Terwilliger, is telling him to do as he faces mounting pressure on Jan. 6 case (remember the texts).

    Seriously?  Seriously?!  You can’t make this up!

    It’s Sideshow Bob’s brother!

  29. 29.

    Nora

    @Geminid: ​
      Well, if he didn’t want to face going to jail at age 76, maybe he shouldn’t have committed crimes in his 70’s.

  31. 31.

    bbleh

    Aw the monkeys are all stirred up and flinging poo.  They’ll settle down in a while.  The hard core will never admit the truth, of course, but they’re beyond hope, so who really cares?

    What I really like about Jack “You Can’t Pronounce The Original Klingon” Smith is the aura of implacability.  No comments, no smiles, working on his own schedule to his own standards.  It’s like a wall of rock — there’s not even a finger-hold for the crazies to attack.

    And like it or not, Erick “Son of Erick” Erickson is right: the Republicans will indict Joe, Hunter, Jill, and their dog and cat after this, if they ever get a chance, for the slightest misstep or for nothing at all.  Neither truth nor justice matters to them, only dominance and payback.

  32. 32.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Splitting Image:

    This is, of course, the man who called David Souter a “goat-fucking child molester” because he served the cause of justice on the Supreme Court rather than promoting conservative ideas. 

    I forgot about that!  Erick Son of Erick can still go fuck himself!

  34. 34.

    Ken

    “too much happy talk for way too long”

    Sounds like there may be a downside to reacting to bad news by screaming, throwing food against the wall, and firing the people who brought it.

  35. 35.

    Scout211

    I posted some excerpts last night, but it’s good to be reminded that Trump is being indicted for seven charges but each charge could have any number of counts, according to NBC news.  Other news reports reported it by saying he is being indicted for seven counts.

    IANAL, but I hope there are multiple counts under each charge. Tuesday could be epic if that’s the case.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    @MisterDancer:

    Well said.

    If people use these situations to argue that we need to seriously reform how we do prosecutions in America, I’m all ears.

    +1

    Our visit to Colonial Williamsburg a few years ago was eye-opening to me. They had stocks and a “pinning post” out on the square. “Minor” offenses were punished by being locked in the stocks for a few hours/days; more serious ones were punished by nailing an ear lobe to the post (and ripping the ear off when the punishment was done). Tears in an earlobe were marks that one was a convicted criminal and scarred one’s prospects the rest of one’s life (to the extent that innocent people with injured ears would get letters from the governor saying that they were innocent, etc., etc., to carry with them.)

    And, of course, felonies were punished by death.

    Too much of our justice system still has remnants like that in the background. Property crimes are still treated much more harshly than “white collar” crimes, prosecuted differently, punished differently. These are human systems, with all that entails, so it will be difficult to change them, but we need to recognize the issues and work to make things better.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    The bigger thing is that the Republicans are admitting they don’t believe in the rule of law.  They have adopted the Trumpian view that the law is just a weapon to be used against one’s enemies.

  39. 39.

    gvg

    @MisterDancer: When it takes a long time to charge the powerful, it leaves all the rest of us vulnerable. When it takes a long time to charge the weak, it really wouldn’t, in most cases.  Depends on the crime. Trump made us afraid. That is why the lack of charges and action against him made many people so mad. Fear.

    It is also some of why some of the “powerless’ get charges so fast. The charges may be wrong, that is against the wrong person, but some of the crimes scare the dickens out of people. Rape, robbery, breakins…you aren’t going to get things to slow down too much on those because the citizens almost force police to find someone to blame it seems to me. We need to work on all the sides there including the citizens. You aren’t safer if the real criminal is still free.

    We aren’t even trying to use the prison system to rehabilitate which is dangerous to us. People are too scared to talk about it or think. Fox is not the only factor, but it really hasn’t helped. It really widespred. Our society is just too scared.

  40. 40.

    Roger Moore

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Nine-commandment Christians, my friends and I used to call them. (These days, I think even that number is a bit too high.)

    Yeah, they certainly don’t seem to be very good about not coveting their neighbor’s stuff.  They seem to be pretty forgiving of adultery, at least when the adulterer is a member of their church.  Also, too, I think the ones who are members of the cult of Trump are shaky about false gods and idolatry.

  41. 41.

    OGLiberal

    @lowtechcyclist: Q: “How many commandments do evangelicals honor?”

    A: “None of them, Katie.”

    Sad thing is that at least 47 percent of the people who vote will still vote for this guy if he’s the GOP nominee.  Meet half your neighbors, folks.

  43. 43.

    OGLiberal

    @Roger Moore: You know, if Trump killed somebody it would be all part of god’s plan.  He’s just a flawed instrument, sent her by Jesus to protect baby fetuses and baby guns from marauding hordes of trans, illegal immigrant, secular humanist, George Soros funded ChiCom Jewish zombies who have sex with Hunter Biden’s laptop.  That’s what Epoch Times told me.

  44. 44.

    Roger Moore

    @MisterDancer:

    I agree with the point that prosecutors ought to be slower and more careful about bringing indictments.  That said:

    1. Being that slow and careful requires that we be careful about bail reform.  Too many poor defendants languish in jail waiting their trial because we’ve set an unreasonably high bail, and encouraging prosecutors to slow down only exacerbates that situation.
    2. It’s important that the Trump prosecution happen fast enough to prevent him from getting reelected and interfering with his own case.  That gives this specific case an urgency that isn’t there in the generic situation.
  45. 45.

    Roger Moore

    @bbleh:

    And like it or not, Erick “Son of Erick” Erickson is right: the Republicans will indict Joe, Hunter, Jill, and their dog and cat after this, if they ever get a chance, for the slightest misstep or for nothing at all.

    Sure, but they’d most likely indict Joe, Jill, and Hunter regardless.  This is true of the general case of “we can’t do X because it will make the Republicans angry”.  The Republicans are already angry, and the threats about all the terrible stuff they’ll do if provoked show what they’re already considering.  You can’t give in to extortion like this, because it just lets the extortionist know it works.

  47. 47.

    JaneE

    @bbleh: The will and are doing everything they can to show the Bidens committed crimes.  That will not change if they win another election or not.  If the DOJ they have then is corrupt enough, they will bring charges.  Presumably they will win an indictment, though that is not certain.  Convincing a jury might be more difficult.  Even getting their “evidence” of hearsay and innuendo admitted in court may be a problem.  Not even all Trump judges are incompetent ideologues.

    If they manage to purge the DOJ of impartial prosecutors who rely on facts and evidence to charge or indict, we have a bigger problem than them going after opposing politicians.  Entire groups may be targets beyond the Democrats. They may not be able to prosecute a gay or trans person for being gay or trans, but pedophilia is a crime and a hot button.  And “kill the gays” is what they are working for – see Uganda.

  48. 48.

    lowtechcyclist

    Q: “How many commandments do evangelicals honor?”

    A: “None of them, Katie.”

    Sad thing is that at least 47 percent of the people who vote will still vote for this guy if he’s the GOP nominee.  Meet half your neighbors, folks.

    I dunno, I bet very few of them have actual graven images.  I can hear them saying “it’s just a Jon McNaughton painting, it’s not a graven image!”  Trying to get off on a technicality, but I don’t think it works like that.

    I’m sure plenty of them don’t commit adultery, and most of them honor their fathers and mothers who they picked up this set of atrocious values from.  So ‘none’ is a bit too harsh.

    But I’d say their use of the Lord’s name to justify their atrocious actions is far worse than saying ‘goddamn,’ they vote for people who make sure the government doesn’t have the resources to go after corporations like Wal-Mart for wage theft (so they may not themselves steal, but they’re aiding and abetting), and their support of Rittenhouse and Daniel Penny shows how they feel about killing: they’re for it.  And whether they personally honor the Sabbath, they’re cool with employers being able to force their workers to work on Sunday, which they regard as the Sabbath.  So there’s a bunch of them right there. So that’s kill, steal, Sabbath, Lord’s name in vain, graven images, and of course bearing false witness.  That’s most of the Top Ten right there.

  49. 49.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: The only thing Mitch McConnell really cares about is electing Republican Senators next year. He will shape his messaging accordingly. Right now McConnell may figure that no messaging at all is best. Nothing to gain.

  50. 50.

    Ken

    @lowtechcyclist: I’d say their use of the Lord’s name to justify their atrocious actions is far worse than saying ‘goddamn,’

    As I recall, that is also the Jewish interpretation of that commandment — do nothing that might dishonor the Lord’s name, such as using it to justify your own evil acts. By the “fence” principle that gets extended to never using the name carelessly, or even at all.

  51. 51.

    artem1s

    ESPIONAGE ACT – he was caught on tape bragging about retaining a military plan for invading Iran

    Gee, I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to invade Iran? Ya think Liz Cheney might have had some ulterior motives for putting TFG in lockup? Maybe that’s why she was willing to lose her seat and take the lead on the J6 investigation? Was that asshole dumb enough to call her up and threaten her and Darth? He’s such an amateur, even by mob standards.

  52. 52.

    Roger Moore

    @artem1s:

    Gee, I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to invade Iran?

    Having plans to do something doesn’t necessarily mean we are interested in doing that thing.  One of the jobs of the peacetime military is to come up with contingency plans for what they will do in all kinds of different scenarios.  We very likely have plans for the invasion of Mexico and for how to deal with aliens landing on Earth.  The existence of those plans doesn’t mean the military thinks those events are likely, just that it wants to be ready for any contingency.

  53. 53.

    OGLiberal

    @lowtechcyclist: Many of them may not commit adultery, personally, but they, for sure, excuse it.  Cheating on your spouse and then asking God for forgiveness seems to be a huge plus with this crowd.  A huge “redemption” point, even if you keep doing it.

    As for honoring parents, maybe, but pretty sure Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar’s parents are not into the lunacy their kids are into, although they won’t speak up too much because they benefit from the grift.  Even the rebel kids are benefitting because the get cash from that rebelling.  That said, Jim Bob and Michelle used them for cash for years so maybe this is like the NCAA’s NIL but for exploited god-squad kids

    ETA: If I had a few thousand dollars for every Discovery ID show about some Christiany dude or woman killing their spouse because they are fucking the church treasurer/pastor/choir leader/etc, I’d be as rich as Donald Trump, which isn’t that rich, relatively speaking, but enough to have all my furniture covered with gold colored paint.

  54. 54.

    OGLiberal

    @Brit in Chicago: “She showed the mettle, the intelligence and the integrity, which would have made her a good President.”

    And then a bunch of people who ended up voting for Biden in 2020 voted for Trump because they needed a “change” (from what?) or, more significantly, they couldn’t picture a person with lady parts being president.

  55. 55.

    ETtheLibrarian

    tRump has spent decades training those around him (or hiring the type he doesn’t have to) to only show him the positives of any actions or not showing him the negatives and now he is upset that no one was telling him the truth???

  56. 56.

    Xavier

    “What about Joey” is every toddler’s defense when they’re caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

  60. 60.

    artem1s

    @Roger Moore: ​
     

    Having plans to do something doesn’t necessarily mean we are interested in doing that thing.

    Yes true. But Darth and the Bushies have had a hard-on for invading Iran since Big Oil lost their puppet the Shah. If not for Bin Laden’s Afghanistan quagmire screwing up their timeline, Iran would have have been first or second on their 8 year WMD misinformation campaign list. And the American Taliban has been drooling at the chance to start the Second Coming and you know they were egging TFG on to pull the trigger on Armageddon.

  61. 61.

    JML

    Every time one of these losers showing faux autrage over TFG getting indicted the follow-up question should be: “Did he break the law?”

    Who cares if TFG is 76; that’s a mitigation argument for sentencing. Who cares that he “likes stuff”; people are not allowed to steal.

    Erick Erickson’s the the worst: he knows TFG broke the law, he knows he should be indicted and likely sent to prison and his reasoning is “the GOP is crazy enough to set things on fire, so you have to allow their leader to commit crimes or there will be hell to pay”

  62. 62.

    Bill Arnold

    @ETtheLibrarian:

    now he is upset that no one was telling him the truth???

    One amusing twist is that many of his trusted aides are terminally online and due-diligence peek out of the comfortable echo chambers to monitor a token number of loudmouthed self-proclaimed leftists on social media. Many of those were confidently mocking the notion that the DOJ would indict D.J. Trump, and this surely colored the worldview of Trump’s said trusted aides. (The worldview of people in echo chambers can often be easily shaped by those outside it.)
    (Credit: Baud made this joke last night, about commenter cacti.)

  63. 63.

    Ruckus

    @Splitting Image:

    Guilt never mattered to them.

    If they worried about guilt they’d never get to be guilty….

    And they wouldn’t be themselves, conservatism above all else on the planet. Their’s is the righteous way and everything that tries to stop or harm them from achieving their goals of a completely conservative country is/must be changed. A democracy? Of all the people? NEVER. Look it doesn’t work, we elected a BLACK man as president. Gay people allowed to actually be gay? Woman allowed any equality at all? What the fuck is this world coming to?

  64. 64.

    Ruckus

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Nine-commandment Christians, my friends and I used to call them.  (These days, I think even that number is a bit too high.)

    Only 7-9 steps….

  65. 65.

    Geminid

    @artem1s: I think it was the Iraqi insurgency that halted Cheney’s and Rumsfelds’ plan to move on Iran. They thought they could go in and get out quickly. They couldn’t get out, though.

    As for Trump and Iran, he talked very tough but would not follow through. He’d seen how the Iraq invasion wrecked Bush’s presidency.

    I got a little worried after the election, because I thought Trump might start a war put of desperation. I suspect the document he talked about was a Pentagon plan crafted to show Trump how many things could go wrong if he bombed Iran’s nuclear program.

  66. 66.

    karen marie

    A law enforcement official says US Secret Service will be meeting tomorrow Friday with former president Trump’s staff and his security officers and agents assigned to him to develop a plan for Trump’s travel and appearance for arraignment

    I absolutely love this. His tiny fucking world is now even smaller.

  68. 68.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @mrmoshpotato: $1 to spit on, $10 to piss on, $100 to shit on. By analogy with the Ceausescu joke…which I can’t seem to dig up on the Net, so maybe I’ll need to type a copy out…

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