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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Fox News Flameout (Open Thread)

Fox News Flameout (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  June 20, 20239:29 am| 257 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, 2024 Elections, Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Trumpery

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It’s hard to watch Bret Baier’s recent Fox News interview with Trump because the snuffling spray-tanned meat-sack is so repulsive, but I found it worthwhile. Baier was/is a gross Trump sycophant and hack, but here he takes a new tone, as if admonishing a wayward toddler. “Mommy and Daddy aren’t angry that you torched the house; we’re disappointed you won’t show us the kerosene and matches.”

We’ve all heard enough lies, misdirection and whining from Donald J. Trump to last ten thousand lifetimes, but this is next level. At one point, Trump contradicts his own recorded voice as transcribed in the indictment, absurdly claiming the material he waved around for dramatic effect during a self-narrated tour of top secret battle plans for Meadows’ ghostwriters was actually news clippings or golf apparel.

The panic is evident as he weaves a tapestry of contradictory lies, claiming he had nothing here and then baselessly asserting that he had every right to possess what was previously declared nothing there. The entire performance is laced with desperation, as if it has belatedly dawned on Mr. Fuck Around that Mr. Find Out has laid an icy grip on the former’s shriveled nutsack. Extraordinary!

Sidebar: How are the criminal defendant’s lawyers not resigning en masse today? Are there too few to constitute a proper masse? Even if he’s down to a single paralegal, that person should slink away while they still can! Save yourself!

Baier also brings up the 2020 election and asks how Trump plans to get “independent suburban moms” back in his camp for 2024. Trump babbles in corkboard-pushpin-and-yarn dialect about being cheated out of a 2020 victory. To his credit, Baier calls bullshit, noting that Trump-appointed judges dismissed multiple cases for lack of evidence and that swing state recounts confirmed Biden won fair and square.

Apparently Baier has more interview footage that will air today. Unless Baier recorded Trump setting his own crotch on fire, it’s hard to see how it could be more damaging.

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

257Comments

  1. 1.

    Christopher Mathews

    June 20, 2023 at 9:33 am

    Unless Baier recorded Trump setting his own crotch on fire …

    So you’re not ruling it out, then?

  2. 2.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 9:34 am

    “no no no, Bret, there were no documents…there was a mountain of paper, though, you see..”

    YES, I really want this guy back ‘in charge’ of our nation’s executive branch, he is CLEARLY up to the task!  lol

  3. 3.

    Suzanne

    June 20, 2023 at 9:37 am

    Unless Baier recorded Trump setting his own crotch on fire, it’s hard to see how it could be more damaging.

    That would be less damaging, at least for the rest of us.

  4. 4.

    bbleh

    June 20, 2023 at 9:38 am

    I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch it, even part of it.  But I’m enjoying the commentary.

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 20, 2023 at 9:39 am

    @Suzanne: It certainly would top the ratings charts.

  6. 6.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 9:42 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Truth. I would break down and actually go to the Fox News Youtube channel to watch it.

  7. 7.

    Jeffg166

    June 20, 2023 at 9:42 am

    The GQP establishment has turned on TFG. His base hasn’t. What to do. What to do. It’s a puzzlement.

  8. 8.

    leeleeFL

    June 20, 2023 at 9:43 am

    Betty, if you were a man, I would figure out a way at 72 to have your children. You never fail to hit the nail right on the head, but this piece was too delightful for me not to LOL at the first piece I read about that orange s–tstain!  All morning I have been muting the sound of his whiny, BS laden voice trying once again to slither out from under the rock pile he is currently under.  You made the whole thing entertaining beyond measure!  TY TY TY!!!!!

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 9:43 am

    Side note: Baier pushing back hard on the Big Lie (and especially on Fox) is really helpful.  I’m sure most trump supporters will keep right on believing trump, but for some, the scales will fall from their eyes.

    After that, trump just looks like the lying, flailing, chaos-causing loser that he is.  Drip, drip, drip…

  10. 10.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    June 20, 2023 at 9:44 am

    Sidebar: How are the criminal defendant’s lawyers not resigning en masse today?

    It’s a lot harder for an attorney to dump a client in the middle of a case than for a client to fire an attorney. I’m pretty sure that defense counsel in this case would have to get Judge Cannon to okay their withdrawal. They’d have a much easier time provoking their client into firing them, I think, except for the non-zero possibility that he might send his cultists after their scalps.

  11. 11.

    leeleeFL

    June 20, 2023 at 9:45 am

    Sorry, obligatory: TICK-TOCK, MF!

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 9:46 am

    The best part is when Baier rolls the clips and rattles off the names of all the folks who’ve worked for trump that a) are now running against him and/or b) trump has insulted publicly.

    trump’s like, “but it’s like a 10 to 1 ratio of excellent hires compared to all those other dumb fucks who were ‘born with small brains’ that I brought aboard”

    not exactly the exoneration he thinks it is, LOL

  13. 13.

    brendancalling

    June 20, 2023 at 9:46 am

    I’ve only watched a few clips, but man—TFG looked BAD. He didn’t so much have bags under his eyes as a full set of luggage, his hair was weirder than usual, and he just looked completely panicked.

    I’d ordinarily continue to pray for a rage stroke, but I’d prefer he die in prison.

  14. 14.

    rikyrah

    June 20, 2023 at 9:46 am

    THIS was ordered by the Murdochs.

    You can’t convince me otherwise.

    Baier didn’t wake up yesterday just knowing how to do journalism.

    He was instructed to do so.

    And, it’s obvious that Dolt45 expected his usual Fox treatment, which is why he went on the show in the first place.

     

    If a Democrat had given a similar interview, every Democrat holding office would be asked on air about it.

  15. 15.

    Wag

    June 20, 2023 at 9:47 am

    When Trump has lost Fox, he has finally lost.   But I guess that he’ll always have Newsmax.

  16. 16.

    bbleh

    June 20, 2023 at 9:47 am

    @rikyrah: concur, or at least it had their active approval.  Wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

    @Jeffg166: Most of the base will come around.  They really are programmable meatsacks.  There will be a few cultists who won’t, but hell they’ve still got people who aren’t sure the Earth is round.  All Fox et al. gotta do is push something new to be OUTRAGED about, and start pimping someone else as the Great White Hope, and the curve will start bending.

    I think their larger problem is, there really is no good alternative.  They were SO hoping DeSantis would be it, but he is such a repulsive human being that it’s starting to look like a bad idea.

    My guess is, they’re gonna pick one pro-forma, in case the economy craters or something else happens to take Biden down, but otherwise they’re gonna give up on the WH and focus on winning the Senate and keeping the House.  Those are both do-able, particularly the former.

  17. 17.

    Roger Moore

    June 20, 2023 at 9:47 am

    @Jeffg166:

    What to do. What to do. It’s a puzzlement.

    Plain old butter popcorn is just fine. You don’t need to agonize between flavors.

  18. 18.

    Quinerly

    June 20, 2023 at 9:48 am

    Judge Cannon has set the trial date for August. At least the ball is rolling.

  19. 19.

    The Moar You Know

    June 20, 2023 at 9:49 am

    How are the criminal defendant’s lawyers not resigning en masse today?

    well, this is their job.  No matter how guilty as fuck anyone may be, they get their day in court and the best defense they can buy.  That this defense will be what is commonly known as “grasping at straws” makes no matter; they gotta do the best they can.  And I know at least one of them has been smart enough to get paid up front.

    I assume they’ve told their client to shut the fuck up and he simply won’t.  In the end, that is not really their problem, it will be solely their client’s.

  20. 20.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    June 20, 2023 at 9:50 am

    @rikyrah: I don’t doubt your hypothesis, but I have to wonder if the Murdochs are actually capable of pulling the Trumpists away from Trump and towards their favored fascist, whoever that might be this week. I can’t see that happening while Trump is still breathing, but if he does get locked up, it just might fracture the GOP completely.

  21. 21.

    Raven

    June 20, 2023 at 9:50 am

    Hunter pleading guilty on taxes, plea on gun.

  22. 22.

    Sanjeevs

    June 20, 2023 at 9:51 am

    https://www.ft.com/content/8ce72a0d-4ea5-4f94-b2f7-67c5ed66b8a8

    Hunter Biden has agreed to plead guilty to criminal tax violations just days after his father Joe Biden held the first rally of his campaign for the 2024 presidential election.
    According to a court document filed on Tuesday, Hunter Biden was charged with two counts of wilful failure to pay federal income tax.  He has also agreed to enter a “pretrial diversion agreement” in relation to a separate charge accusing him of possessing a firearm as an unlawful or addicted user of a “controlled substance”. Such agreements typically redirect defendants to community services with the aim of preventing future misconduct.

  23. 23.

    MattF

    June 20, 2023 at 9:52 am

    The Fox ‘News’ commentators (and, presumably, King Rupert) before and after this disaster have concluded that he can’t win.

    ETA: I see others have drawn the same conclusion.

  24. 24.

    bbleh

    June 20, 2023 at 9:53 am

    @Raven: @Sanjeevs: expected to get probation + diversion.  The Krayzees will have a Defcon-2 sh!tfit, but then it’ll die down — they can’t sustain one for anything unless their churches are behind it — and that’ll take it off the table.

    The whole thing is a crock anyway.  The gun charge never even would have been brought if he weren’t Biden’s son.  But there it is.

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 20, 2023 at 9:55 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: They’d have a much easier time provoking their client into firing them, I think, except for the non-zero possibility that he might send his cultists after their scalps.

    Awwwww… Pobrecitos. WTF did they think trump was going to do if/when he’s found guilty?

  26. 26.

    Sanjeevs

    June 20, 2023 at 9:56 am

    @bbleh: What’s diversion?

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 20, 2023 at 9:58 am

    @Raven: @Sanjeevs:

    Say WHAT??? You mean the DOJ isn’t totally in the DEMs back pocket?

  28. 28.

    bbleh

    June 20, 2023 at 10:02 am

    @Sanjeevs: per the latter part of your quote.  It’s typically “pre-trial,” meaning someone charged with a minor crime goes into some form of “treatment” or other non-punitive program under nominal supervision of the court, and if they complete it successfully, the charges are dropped and expunged from their record.  So they’re “diverted” from the normal track of criminal prosecution.

    @OzarkHillbilly: and the prosecutor — I think like a Delaware DA or USA — is a Trump holdover, although that won’t stop the Krayzees from howling, cuz they’re impervious to fact.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 10:02 am

    Even if he’s down to a single paralegal, that person should slink away while they still can! Save yourself!

    Criminal defense isn’t like that though. Most of them are guilty. The vast majority. Many of them are also dumb and talk too much. They still get a defense. It’s not like “my reputation will be RUINED because my client is guilty and a bad person!”. That’s just baked into the job. They’re measured in other ways.

  30. 30.

    jonas

    June 20, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @rikyrah: The New York Post (another Murdoch property) regularly mocks him now, so yeah, I suspect this is just another step in the process of de-Trumpifying (and DeSantis-ifying) Murdoch media.

  31. 31.

    Sanjeevs

    June 20, 2023 at 10:05 am

    @bbleh: Thanks!

  32. 32.

    JML

    June 20, 2023 at 10:05 am

    @Sanjeevs: If he completes a program specified in the plea the charge will be vacated and come off his record. Diversion programs are pretty common, frequently involve completing things like a substance abuse program, anger management, various education programs, and a form of probation without committing any crimes. be good and work the program to get your life back on track and structured in a healthy way, criminal charge goes away and doesn’t follow you for the rest of your life like a conviction.

  33. 33.

    James E Powell

    June 20, 2023 at 10:06 am

    @Sanjeevs:

    Pretrial Diversion – PTD – is an alternative to trial or plea. The charges are held in abeyance, the offender agrees to certain conditions, and if they are met the charges might be dropped or reduced.

  34. 34.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 10:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m sure the House will bring this into their “weaponization of the government” hearings. If even the President’s son can be charged with tax and gun law violations…

  35. 35.

    jonas

    June 20, 2023 at 10:08 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: IANAL, but can Trump’s lawyers be held accountable or sanctioned somehow if they fail to get their client to follow their advice? I don’t know if that’s how it works. It could be their approach is basically “this guy is fucked six ways from Sunday and if his big mouth digs his hole a few inches deeper, it doesn’t really change anything, so wev, you do you, Donnie.” Their only concern is probably making sure they get paid before he goes to prison.

  36. 36.

    Delk

    June 20, 2023 at 10:08 am

    Is Gehry doing his hair?

  37. 37.

    Roger Moore

    June 20, 2023 at 10:09 am

    @Sanjeevs:

    What’s diversion?

    Diversion usually means the case is temporarily set aside while the defendant goes through a program designed to steer them away from whatever underlying problem supposedly led to their problems.  If they make acceptable progress in the diversion program, the charges are dismissed and the record of the case is sealed.  To someone like an employer, it’s as if the case never existed, though the courts can unseal the records if the defendant re-offends.  It’s a way to give first time offenders in mild offenses like this a chance to straighten up without tainting their record with a criminal conviction.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:09 am

    @Sanjeevs:

    Our long national nightmare is finally over.

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    June 20, 2023 at 10:12 am

    @jonas:

    IANAL, but can Trump’s lawyers be held accountable or sanctioned somehow if they fail to get their client to follow their advice?

    I don’t think so.  If defense lawyers were punished for the misbehavior of their client while awaiting trial, there wouldn’t be any left.  As long as they give him good advice, it really isn’t their fault if he’s too stubborn to listen.

  40. 40.

    jlowe

    June 20, 2023 at 10:15 am

    I wonder about the attorneys. How do they do this and make a living? Stepping on their bids, demanding 70% of the fee up-front and invoicing weekly?

  41. 41.

    NotMax

    June 20, 2023 at 10:16 am

    “It was a perfect interview.”
    //

  42. 42.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 10:16 am

    So, now they have their Hunter.  Dude did shady stuff and has issues.  And it’s likely he did break the law.  Was Joe involved at all?  Highly unlikely.  But this is where wingers will use Biden’s devotion to family against him.

    I would excuse Hunter and losing his bro was rough stuff but, dude, your dad has been running for president since before you could speak.  Maybe have some discretion, especially when this was the one time your dad could win and actually did win.

    We did not need this and, sorry, dude is too old and should know better, grief not withstanding.

    Not helpful.  This is on nobody but Hunter but, again, dude should have known better.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 10:16 am

    @Sanjeevs:

    Ugh. Just gross that he didn’t pay taxes. Obviousy there are bigger fish and bigger crimes but JFC, even a drug addict can pay a tax preparer.

  44. 44.

    OverTwistWillie

    June 20, 2023 at 10:16 am

    Is it weird that his liars tell is sniffing?

    Fraught is how I would describe his appearance.

  45. 45.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 10:17 am

    The anchors on NBC news were talking about the many [eta remaining] charges against the Biden’s that are gonna loom large over the election. Aside from the gun charge against HB, I don’t know WTF they’re talking about.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    June 20, 2023 at 10:18 am

    Regarding Hunter Biden’s gun charges, if I’m reading it right, it sounds like he implicated himself in his book by confessing to substance abuse during the time period when he bought the gun.

  47. 47.

    Josie

    June 20, 2023 at 10:21 am

    @rikyrah: ​
     This is exactly what I was thinking as I watched the clips. You said it better than I could have. Clearly the orders have gone out.

  48. 48.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    June 20, 2023 at 10:21 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    I find that when I have an intractable client and a dick judge that doesn’t readily let people out, I readily and easily get fired when I say “your request is stupid, and I’m not doing it.”

    Then again, I’m older and crankier now, and can pull it off better.

  49. 49.

    NotMax

    June 20, 2023 at 10:22 am

    Maybe in part deux Dolt 45 will expound on the “tens of thousands jamming the streets of Miami” in support of him who practically brought the entire city to a standstill.
    //

  50. 50.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 10:22 am

    @JWR:

    They’re uncomfortable talking about only one side’s  crimes so they’ll invent some on the other side if they have to. These are rigidly conventional people with absolutely no capacity to do anything other than “THIS is EXACTLY like THAT”. They never figured out how to handle Trump because they never tried anything different. They only have this really limited skill set and tools and they cannot ever veer from it. Too scary!

  51. 51.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 20, 2023 at 10:23 am

    @brendancalling: I’d ordinarily continue to pray for a rage stroke, but I’d prefer he die in prison.

    ¿Porqué no los dos? (Tl;dr version: Ariel Sharon.)

    Can’t imagine a fate worse than being trapped inside one’s own mentally-screwed up universe for that long – but y’know, a sociopathic solipsistic narcissist like Chump would probably think he’d died & gone to The Heaven of Autocrats. (Would that make it a win-win, a whine-whine or a combination of the two? Inquiring minds usw.)

  52. 52.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 20, 2023 at 10:23 am

    The base will never believe the election wasn’t stolen.  Ever.  They have believed Democrats only win by cheating for decades.  Crap like busses full of dark skinned people traveling from precinct to precinct voting repeatedly are long-running narratives used to push voter restriction laws.  Trump didn’t have to make up any of his cheating narratives, nutcases came out of the woodwork in droves to tell him how they saw the cheating happen.  The base wants to believe it was stolen, it fits what they have always believed, and Fox can’t change that.

    They can depress enthusiasm for Trump, but… who is going to pick up that slack?  Only DeSantis has the sadistic white supremacist chops, and the base knows he’s weak now.  They won’t choose him over the bully giving him public swirlies.

    I guess there’s still lots of time for something to change.

  53. 53.

    James E Powell

    June 20, 2023 at 10:23 am

    @OGLiberal:

    I’m curious about the details of his tax offense. Are there IRS prosecution attorneys in the jackal horde? My understanding is Hunter Biden paid the money some time ago. In that case, does the IRS usually go for criminal charges?

    In 20 years of practice, my only encounter with the IRS was me personally & totally civil. It was fairly simple: IRS said I did it wrong & owed more money. I paid them. Nobody said anything about a crime.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    June 20, 2023 at 10:24 am

    Resolution to Hunter Biden’s case seems fine to me.  A misdemeanor, not a felony, and diversion.

    Now go after Jared and the rest of Trump’s criming and corrupted family.  With both barrels.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:24 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    If he were a real patriot, he would have challenged that restriction as unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.

  56. 56.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:25 am

    @JWR:

    Wishful thinking.

  57. 57.

    Steve in the ATL

    June 20, 2023 at 10:25 am

    Sidebar: How are the criminal defendant’s lawyers not resigning en masse today?

    (1) Clever wordplay with “sidebar” there;

    (2) Nice callback to the previous thread with the French there; and

    (3) Criminal defense lawyers (who btw get very touchy when referred to as “criminal lawyers”) are accustomed to representing guilty and stupid clients.

    In this case, I am guessing that the competent lawyers are sticking around for (a) money, (b) the prestige of representing a POTUS, with the hope or assumption that at some point people will forget the details of the treasonous orange fuck and just be impressed with the former client’s status, and (c) the professional satisfaction—and future client development—in the event they actually win this case.

    The true believer lawyers would never resign over their client’s stupidity, but the Venn diagram of “competent lawyers” and “true believer lawyers” are two circles that do not overlap at all. Probably written on different white boards, even.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 10:27 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Oh, he just pisses me off. He was way too fucking OLD to be doing what he was doing when he was doing it. I’m sick to death of how spoiled these people are. I’m glad it’s a misdemeanor – I think we overcharge and over incarcerate in this country across the board – but honestly Hunter doesn’t deserve such a loyal father.

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    June 20, 2023 at 10:27 am

    @Kay:  True.  I despise a lot of MSM’s “balance” (read:  complete lack of accuracy), and NBC, and all the major networks, can be awful.

    Conventional people, careerists, not curious or courageous enough about the important things.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:27 am

    @James E Powell:

    The US attorney wanted Hunter’s hide for political reasons.  The IRS wasn’t going to stop him.

  61. 61.

    PAM Dirac

    June 20, 2023 at 10:28 am

    @Quinerly:

    At least the ball is rolling

    So far her rulings have been consistent with her being a Federalist Society hack rather than a MAGA hack. The real test will come when the pre-trial motions come in. If she rules on them quickly and reasonably then it is pretty certain that she is joining the R elites that have decided drumpf is a loser who is no longer useful to the cause. It seems at this point that the elites have decided that drumpf is so toxic that he has to be cut down now, even if they can’t engineer a popular replacement.

  62. 62.

    scav

    June 20, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @Roger Moore: Wouldn’t it sometimes be to their (the lawyers) advantage to have it so clearly be the client’s fault that the case crashed and burned? Cover your good advice delivered baseline and then fade back and work on polishing all the stories you’ll tell afterward?

  63. 63.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t follow Hunter because he’s not in the administration in any way, but wasn’t he in a pretty rotten place with his addiction.  If so, I’m not sure age has anything to do with it.

  64. 64.

    jimmiraybob

    June 20, 2023 at 10:29 am

    I may be going out on a limb here but I absolutely agree with the felony criminal defendant when he says that he had every right to have those boxes. We live in a nation where everyone is free to have boxes. I personally have boxes.

    Please make your checks out to my new organization: Patriots For Having Boxes. Once lost, this fundamental human and civil right will not easily be rewon. 1776! 1652! 1524!

  65. 65.

    Elizabelle

    June 20, 2023 at 10:30 am

    @Kay:  I feel so badly for Joe and Jill Biden, with the crazies going after the one remaining son.  Who is an addict, and has made some poor choices, admittedly.

    Hunter apparently avoided paying taxes; he has plead guilty to that. I would imagine he is devastated at dragging his father/parents through this.

    Now go after the really bad tax evaders.  Surprise wingnuts:  It won’t be the Biden family.

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 20, 2023 at 10:31 am

    @Kay: but honestly Hunter doesn’t deserve such a loyal father.

    Speaking as the father of a troubled child, deserve has nothing to do with it. Need does.

  67. 67.

    jonas

    June 20, 2023 at 10:31 am

    @OGLiberal: Addiction damages and clouds your judgment in all sorts of ways, which is why it’s, you know, a bad illness. I think Hunter just decided to do his family a favor, own up to his mistakes, and try to move on.

  68. 68.

    MomSense

    June 20, 2023 at 10:31 am

    @bbleh:

    Lots of Republican voters have been through this process themselves or with a loved one with substance abuse.  I don’t think it would be smart for GOP to go scorched earth about this.  All Biden has to do is say how hard it is as a parent to suffer through substance abuse with your child.  I’m sure he did a lot of worrying and praying and that will be well received.

  69. 69.

    trollhattan

    June 20, 2023 at 10:32 am

    @Quinerly: This August or “an August”?

  70. 70.

    NotMax

    June 20, 2023 at 10:33 am

    @jimmiraybob

    The British go so far as to have a special day named for them!
    :)

  71. 71.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 20, 2023 at 10:33 am

    @jimmiraybob: My cats would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  72. 72.

    Mike in NC

    June 20, 2023 at 10:34 am

    Trump setting his own crotch on fire

    OK, I would definitely tune in for that.

  73. 73.

    Joy in FL

    June 20, 2023 at 10:34 am

    I laughed out loud at this, Betty Cracker.

    I love how you wield words.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 10:34 am

    @NotMax:

    Win!

  75. 75.

    stinger

    June 20, 2023 at 10:35 am

    it has belatedly dawned on Mr. Fuck Around that Mr. Find Out has laid an icy grip on the former’s shriveled nutsack

    Tears.

    Tears running down my face.

    The dogs are looking at me worriedly. For the noise of my laughter; they don’t care about my tears.

  76. 76.

    jonas

    June 20, 2023 at 10:36 am

    @James E Powell: My understanding is Hunter Biden paid the money some time ago. In that case, does the IRS usually go for criminal charges?

    He did pay the unpaid tax bill, but my understanding is that, depending on *why* you didn’t pay, you may still face criminal penalties. Taking a deduction, for example, that turned out not to be permitted is one thing. Actually hiding income in a way that was clearly deliberate, on the other hand (which Biden appears to have done) is another.

  77. 77.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 20, 2023 at 10:36 am

    @James E Powell:

    In 20 years of practice, my only encounter with the IRS was me personally & totally civil. It was fairly simple: IRS said I did it wrong & owed more money. I paid them. Nobody said anything about a crime.

    Yeah, I had a couple of encounters with them, once because I made a mistake, another time because someone else was doing something bad and they were fishing for information/weren’t sure I wasn’t involved.

    They always come on a little scary with the initial letter on IRS letterhead, then if you call them up and sound like you’re making a good-faith effort to make sure they get their money, they’re quite nice.

  78. 78.

    Josie

    June 20, 2023 at 10:37 am

    It’s easy to sit in judgement on someone when you haven’t walked in their shoes. This sort of thing works both ways. Hunter Biden’s fuck-ups would probably never have been noticed or investigated had he not been Joe Biden’s son. I admire his decision to own up and stop the nonsense, and I admire his father’s loyalty and love for his son.

  79. 79.

    jimmiraybob

    June 20, 2023 at 10:38 am

    @NotMax: ​
      It’s hard to believe we broke up.

  80. 80.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 20, 2023 at 10:40 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: yeah, I’m really surprised at some of the dismissive comments about addiction and mental health issues. People don’t grow out of them

  81. 81.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 20, 2023 at 10:40 am

    So I guess the GOP bs argument will be: we can’t afford to re-elect someone who has a child that has been indicted, therefore we must re-elect a guy who has been indicted (twice, as of now) himself!

  82. 82.

    jimmiraybob

    June 20, 2023 at 10:40 am

    @Matt McIrvin: When I was a young tyke I used to haul large boxes home from a local appliance store and use them as forts in the back yard.  I get cats.

  83. 83.

    bbleh

    June 20, 2023 at 10:41 am

    @MomSense: I agree, on both points! But I don’t think either one will stop the Krayzees. However, if the propaganda outlets don’t keep pushing it — and I don’t think THEY will, for the reasons you mention — then I think it’ll fade.

    it was smart of the Bidens to bite the bullet and get it done now.

  84. 84.

    Delosgatos

    June 20, 2023 at 10:41 am

    A magnificent turn of a phrase:

    “it has belatedly dawned on Mr. Fuck Around that Mr. Find Out has laid an icy grip on the former’s shriveled nutsack.”

  85. 85.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 10:41 am

    @Kay:

    They’re uncomfortable talking about only one side’s crimes so they’ll invent some on the other side if they have to.

    I can see that coming from Fox, but this is NBC, (yeah, I know. They put on their stupid hats for stuff like this), but geez, are they really this stupid? The mind boggles!

  86. 86.

    snoey

    June 20, 2023 at 10:42 am

    @jonas: Way back when my grandma’s doctor got caught burying coffee cans of undeclared cash in the backyard (that way back when). He got penalties and interest. When he dug up more coffee cans to cover the bill he got to go to Danbury.

  87. 87.

    Princess

    June 20, 2023 at 10:42 am

    This won’t be a popular view, but I was struck by Trump’s message discipline in the sense of how he kept turning questions that were terrible for him back to the economy. His supporters will hear his discussion about “mountains of papers” as mountains of his own personal papers, news clippings etc., and will hear him denying he had anything confidential there. They will believe anything there was planted by the DoJ. We hear this interview one way but I can also see how Republicans will think he did a good job and focussed on what is important to them.

  88. 88.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:42 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    It’s more than likely that they’ll just stay home. Voting for Trump empowered them to own the libs. Cue the picture of the couple with “fuck your feelings”. That kind of sense. None of the other candidates have that.

    Those other candidates still want the gravitas of presidential office that Trump never had. It’s hard for them to come up against a rich entertainer who knows how to fleece the rubes.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 20, 2023 at 10:43 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​ I’m just speaking as a father who wanted nothing more than to make all his troubles disappear but could do no more than be there for him every day, no matter what, because that’s what love is.

  90. 90.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:43 am

    @Sanjeevs: lol – there is absolutely nothing there for GOP to use for messaging. Taxes and guns? Yeah, that’s like the shit they like to rant about.

  91. 91.

    Suzanne

    June 20, 2023 at 10:43 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I had to deal with them once. Like most divorced parents, ex-Mr.-Suzanne and I trade the child tax credit. One year, he screwed up and filed for it on my year. So the same kid got claimed twice.

    So I got this scary letter and I was like WTF? I called them up and it was hilarious. They were trying to explain the situation to me without saying directly that someone else claimed him, or who that was, because it would be a breach of confidentiality. Finally we left it where they requested a copy of our custody agreement, which indicated which years I got to file for it. So I sent that in and NBD. But they were very nice and professional.

  92. 92.

    Eunicecycle

    June 20, 2023 at 10:45 am

    @cain: Didn’t Trump himself say it was smart not to pay taxes?

  93. 93.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 10:46 am

    The son of the president has plead guilty to federal crimes.  His dad is running against a guy indicted for federal crimes and a big argument against said opponent is that he’s a criminal.  Forget the nuance, relative comparisons, Joe is not Hunter, etc.  We don’t get to choose the media and electorate we have.  See 2016.  Hunter fucked up and I hope his dad is driving that home (or already has) since his fucking son should have known better. But that won’t matter because this will give that squishy middle we are all beholden to – which is terrible because they are the stupidest people on the planet – to say “you know, I just need a change.”  And those fucking morons will then vote for Trump even though a) that’s not change and b) you just helped vote him out.

    Yeah, I know those is small shit, relatively speaking, but we all know there is no margin for error and what Hunter did is a huge error, not in scope but because of who he is and who his dad is.  And he has absolutely no room for a “I had no idea my dad was running for president” excuse

    I’ll give him credit for pleading out but when you are raking in millions and cheating on taxes people don’t have a lot of sympathy for dead sibling and substance abuse excuses.

    This was and is highly unfortunate.  Look at it this way…if this were a normal election and Trump was not in the mix this would pretty much be disqualifying for Biden.

  94. 94.

    Mike in Pasadena

    June 20, 2023 at 10:46 am

    I have not read the thread yet so somebody beat me to it for sure, but Betty, are you trying to replace Charles Pierce at Esquire? Apply today! You’ve  got the job.

  95. 95.

    Chief Oshkosh

    June 20, 2023 at 10:47 am

    @Christopher Mathews: Whooduhthunk that a grilled mushroom would be part of the 2024 election discourse?

  96. 96.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:48 am

    @OGLiberal:

    Not helpful.  This is on nobody but Hunter but, again, dude should have known better.

    This feels overly moralizing – mental health is no joke and it’s very difficult to manage your mental health while also trying to throw context. Your comment fails to take into consideration what a difficult struggle that is.

    Joe will be just fine, he loves his family, his son – probably more than the presidency. There is absolutely nothing about those charges that the GOP can make hay over other than just general criminality  – but since it is taxes and guns – it’s their favorite shit to fight against. They hate taxes and they love guns.

  97. 97.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 10:49 am

    I know there aren’t many Chait fans around here, but he has an opinion piece in New York Magazine Intelligencer that made me laugh.

    So Trump, by his own account, is facing felony charges because he didn’t want to hand over boxes that might contain his golf duds. He had to hold the boxes and search them all, lest he part with a cherished pair of pants. This is a very, very bad reason to go to prison.

    Certainly, it can be annoying to lose your favorite golf outfits and have to buy some new ones. But golf shirts, pants, and shoes are all easily replaceable. The legal costs alone of his defense in this case massively outstrip the expense of replacing any clothing he might have potentially forfeited.

    . . .

    Trump is now asking people to vote for him for president of the United States and overlook his defense that he committed multiple felonies as part of a scheme to ensure he did not mistakenly give away golf pants.

    There is one loose fact an interviewer should ask Trump: Did he ever find out if there were any golf clothes in the boxes?

  98. 98.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 10:49 am

    @jonas: …depending on *why* you didn’t pay, you may still face criminal penalties. Taking a deduction, for example, that turned out not to be permitted is one thing. Actually hiding income in a way that was clearly deliberate, on the other hand (which Biden appears to have done) is another.

    The entire top 10% of the country just collectively shuddered and they don’t know why.

  99. 99.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:53 am

    @Eunicecycle: He did – and his followers agree with him – but only if you are MAGA. If you’re a dirty lib, you go to jail for a billion years until you turn into oil they can use to power their truck.

  100. 100.

    Bupalos

    June 20, 2023 at 10:53 am

    @MomSense: the problem with focusing on addiction here is that as a troubled addict or former addict, he was given completely unearned positions that paid big dollars. That is fundamentally a story of corruption, and I have no interest in defending it really on any terms. This is one way in which partisan enmity serves a useful purpose.

  101. 101.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 10:53 am

    I would bet that the Trump crime family owes more than $200,000 in unpaid taxes. Hmmm.

    Link

    The information charging Hunter with two tax crimes says that in both 2017 and 2018, he had taxable income in excess of $1.5 million, but failed to pay income tax for either of those years. Hunter owed the IRS more than $100,000 in taxes for each of those years, according to the filing.

    The tax charges have a maximum possible sentence of 12 months in prison.

  102. 102.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:54 am

    @sdhays: Yes, I’m sure – the GOP will demand a greater spotlight on this kind of crime ;)

    ask congress to make a bill with hunter biden’s name on it where it will give the IRS greater powers to go after the kind of crime that Hunter created. Let’s see what they do. Then leverage that bill and start talking about it and then have Hunter go through the talk shows referring to the bill with his name on it.

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 10:56 am

    @Scout211: I find the idea that there might have been golf shirts and pants in those boxes hysterically funny.  Don’t most people keep their clothes in closets, or in dressers?

    I mean, go into any filing cabinet, storage box, or supply closet in America.  I’m gonna guess that the likelihood of finding personal attire in there is, oh, 1%?  .5%

    (It’s also super-easy to search filing cabinets, storage boxes, or supply closets for your misplaced clothes, too: open box and see if you see anything except documents in there.  No?  Then give that box back to NARA, stat!)

    This dumb lying cluck, though, I swear…

  104. 104.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 10:57 am

    @rikyrah:

    THIS was ordered by the Murdochs.

    You can’t convince me otherwise.

    Baier didn’t wake up yesterday just knowing how to do journalism.

    He was instructed to do so.

    And, it’s obvious that Dolt45 expected his usual Fox treatment, which is why he went on the show in the first place.

     

    If a Democrat had given a similar interview, every Democrat holding office would be asked on air about it.

    Truth, from beginning to end.

  105. 105.

    randy khan

    June 20, 2023 at 10:58 am

    About why his lawyers aren’t quitting:

    Leaving aside that there are serious questions about any lawyer who would agree to represent Donald Trump (even assuming a huge advance payment before you sign up), I imagine that his lawyers long ago figured out that he will say what he wants when he wants, and all you can do is make contingency plans for that inevitable event.

  106. 106.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 10:58 am

    @Princess: I always assume his hard core supporters will hear what they want to hear, regardless of what is said. “I feast of the blood of infants” would turn into “I like bunnies” once it entered their ears.

  107. 107.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 10:58 am

    @Bupalos: I don’t think anybody is going to support what Hunter did. But in the end of it – it has nothing to do with politics. Hunter does not have a role to play in govt, and there is no evidence that it influenced Joe in any way other than as a son and father.

    It’s only corruption if it has influence on the federal govt or if there was some of pro quid pro that Joe did for his son. Since there is no evidence of that…

    And the Trump crime family has a ton of examples – so they hopefully will keep their goddam mouth shut.

  108. 108.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 20, 2023 at 10:59 am

    @rikyrah:  @lowtechcyclist: yup, as with Barr, this is The Money wanting trump out of the way ASAP, so they can swap him out for (I’d bet) Youngkin. If Mitch McConnell isn’t on those phone calls, he knows who is and what they’re saying.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    June 20, 2023 at 10:59 am

    Speaking of taking out the trash, the brothers Tate, everyone.

    Controversial influencer Andrew Tate has been charged in Romania with rape, human trafficking and forming an organised crime group to sexually exploit women.

    His brother Tristan and two associates also face charges. All have denied the allegations. The Tate brothers were first arrested at their Bucharest home in December. In March, they were moved from custody to house arrest following a ruling by a Romanian judge.

    The indictment deposited with the Bucharest court says that the four defendants formed an organised criminal group in 2021 to commit human trafficking in Romania, but also in other countries including the US and the UK. It names seven alleged victims who it says were recruited by the Tate brothers through false promises of love and marriage.

    The alleged victims were later taken to buildings in Ilfov county in Romania where they were intimidated, placed under constant surveillance and control and forced into debt, according to a statement from Romanian prosecutors. The defendants allegedly then forced the women to take part in pornography which was later shared on social media.

    One defendant is accused of raping a woman twice in March 2022, the statement adds.

    The trial will not start immediately and is expected to take several years. A Romanian judge now has 60 days to inspect the case files before it can be sent to trial.

    The media team for the Tate brothers said: “While this news is undoubtedly predictable, we embrace the opportunity it presents to demonstrate their innocence and vindicate their reputation.”

    Missing from that last quote is “…so long as the checks clear.”

  110. 110.

    RaflW

    June 20, 2023 at 11:00 am

    @OGLiberal: This is of course an explanation, not an excuse, but an addict in full using mode basically by definition doesn’t care what damage he causes while seeking out more of one’s drug of choice.

    It’s why addicts often get arrested doing all sorts of idiotic or dangerous illegal stuff. Even if the addict has a famous or powerful close family member.

    Again, that doesn’t pardon any of the trouble Hunter has caused. But addiction just short circuits judgement parts of the brain.

    @Kay: I have a degree in finance and did my own taxes for years. But the last two before I sobered up, yeah I didn’t file. Because my brain was basically broken. It was dumb! Of course.

    But to understand addition, it requires seeing the addict as, frankly, temporary mentally ill. Like, beyond bad judgement into all sorts of crazed compartmentalizing and destructive avoidance behaviors.

  111. 111.

    stinger

    June 20, 2023 at 11:00 am

    @Baud: Didn’t Hunter spend many months in the hospital as a child, due to injuries suffered in the accident that killed his mother and sister? His addiction issues could have started then.

  112. 112.

    trollhattan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:01 am

    @sdhays: ​
     Some yutz in Florida for Trump’s arraignment said to the camera with a straight face, “He always tells the truth.”
    There’s no cure.

  113. 113.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 11:01 am

    “Your comment fails to take into consideration what a difficult struggle that is.”

    I know it’s a difficult struggle but, as you said, Joe will be just fine.  It’s the country I worry about.  We barely win these days against facist lunatics…they don’t need much to push them over the winning edge and this is one of those things, kind of like like Comey 2016.  Remember that.  Fucker went out and said that shit because he thought Hillary had it in the bag.  She did not.

    As for moralizing, I’m not.  I’m a personal mess.  I don’t give a fuck what Hunter does with himself that doesn’t fuck with my life.  Helping facists win fucks with my life so, not moralizing.

    I’m not saying they will win but while fucking up seems to strengthen the other side, it hurts our side.  And it should…but we are not on an even playing field and the media does not help.  Stealing national security secrets….kid cheats on taxes…same/same!

  114. 114.

    randy khan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:02 am

    @sdhays:

    Most of the top 10% isn’t at any risk.  The top 10% in household income is right around $200K, and the vast majority of the households where people make that much money get most of their money from salaries that are reported on W-2s (or, if they’re retired, from 401(k) withdrawals, which also are reported directly).

    Now the top 1%, that’s a different story.

  115. 115.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 11:02 am

    @jimmiraybob:

    I used to haul large boxes home from a local appliance store and use them as forts

    I was fortunate enough to grow up adjacent to 3 of the then remaining hills in our area, and once Summer dried out the mustard plants, we’d use those big boxes to run like hell down the hillside and jump into the box for thrill rides. It was especially fun once all the plants in front of us were all bent and slippery. Good times!

  116. 116.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 11:02 am

    @trollhattan: Because he says all the racist and insane conspiracy bullshit I believe.

  117. 117.

    trollhattan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:02 am

    @stinger: ​Yup. TBI isn’t something one recovers from so much as adapt to with time.

  118. 118.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 11:03 am

    @Jeffro: I just can’t quite comprehend how he thinks that “super rich former President couldn’t instruct his help to pick up his clothes for a year and a half (or whatever it is)” is some kind of compelling excuse.

    I guess they were too busy destroying evidence emptying the pool into the server room. As one does.

  119. 119.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 11:03 am

    @Kay: You would be surprised  by how many people get behind on their taxes.  I’ve seen people who need to file ten years of back taxes.

  120. 120.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 11:03 am

    @randy khan: Let’s compromise and say top 5%!

  121. 121.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 11:04 am

    @Jeffro: It’s also super-easy to search filing cabinets, storage boxes, or supply closets for your misplaced clothes, too: open box and see if you see anything except documents in there

    But, but, but he couldn’t do that because he was busy! Seems like a legit legal defense to me.  

    Why yes, IANAL.  Why do you ask?

  122. 122.

    Chief Oshkosh

    June 20, 2023 at 11:04 am

    @bbleh:

    Most of the base will come around. They really are programmable meatsacks.

    Yep. I had the extreme misfortune of having to spend part of this weekend with Trumpist family members. It’s not even that they’ll “come around” — they’re not leaving to begin with. And they are wildly belligerent about it. From hearing them tell it, none of their Trumpists friends are any different, and may be worse.

    Sadly/not sadly, my side of the family has agreed to never see or communicate with them again. Fuck ’em. It’s a relief just contemplating never having to pretend again that they aren’t some of the dumbest, meanest people in the state, with absolutely no redeeming qualities. Truly sadly, though is that the one decent person on that side of the family is now likely to divorce his “Trump Girl” wife. She’s a shit and can die in fire. He’ll be better off physically, mentally, and spiritually if he can come out the other side of this without her. But, I feel really badly for him as he’s older and he’ll be very isolated. We’ve offered to take him in, literally house and feed and care for him for the rest of his life, but he’s unable to accept that level of help, yet. It would be a big leap into the unknown for an old man.

  123. 123.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I may have shared this before, but my one IRS review went very well because I showed up with copies of the records they said they needed to review, including check images for the charitable deductions.

    In the waiting room there was one person literally with a shoebox of papers and receipts. I sometimes wonder how their interview went

    Of course this is before Biden and the Democrats militarized the IRS and assigned 80 million new agents to seize Americans’ property.

  124. 124.

    Soprano2

    June 20, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @rikyrah: It’s too little, too late. None of the MAGA cult will care even a little bit about it.

  125. 125.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Regarding Hunter Biden’s gun charges, if I’m reading it right, it sounds like he implicated himself in his book by confessing to substance abuse during the time period when he bought the gun.

    The RWNJs believe there shouldn’t even be such a thing as illegal possession of a firearm. So I’m having a really hard time seeing how they can make political hay over Hunter being charged with that.

    And if they want to demand that big shots have a harder time getting away with cheating on their taxes, well about freakin’ time they came around!

  126. 126.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    June 20, 2023 at 11:07 am

    @Quinerly: Judge Cannon has set the trial date for August. At least the ball is rolling.

    Well, well. I wonder why she’s stopped putting her thumb on the scale for what’s-his-name? Actually feeling like obeying the law after a stern chastisement behind closed doors?

    My guess is that those closed-door conversations were “He can’t beat these charges and we will see to it that he can’t win the election. It’s a golden opportunity to flush his orange ass and get his insane voters back into the fold. So we need to do this quick, well before 2024.”

    I don’t think it will work. I think that the Republican primary is going to degenerate into rabid uncontrolled chaos, and it will be so, so fun to watch.

  127. 127.

    randy khan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:07 am

    @OGLiberal:

    You know what?  I don’t think it is at all something that would disqualify Biden, particularly these days.  The history of the U.S. is filled with Presidential relatives who were screw-ups of one sort or another, and nobody thought that was disqualifying.   (Look up Donald Nixon.  I’m assuming you don’t have to look up Billy Carter, unless you’re under 50.)

    The big difference between those folks and Hunter Biden is that Joe Biden has been really clear that he knows Hunter has done bad things, but that he still loves him because Hunter is his son.  This, if anything, is part of the underlying reason that people trust Joe Biden.

  128. 128.

    randy khan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:09 am

    @Ken:

    In the waiting room there was one person literally with a shoebox of papers and receipts. I sometimes wonder how their interview went.

    Very slowly.  But I think IRS agents are used to that.

  129. 129.

    Bupalos

    June 20, 2023 at 11:09 am

    @cain: we can all have our definitions of corruption, and we don’t know full details here.

    For me, the story of a person in Hunter’s overall situation being paid several million dollars is a story of corruption, even before the moment he decides to hide it or turns it from legal corruption to illegal corruption.

  130. 130.

    artem1s

    June 20, 2023 at 11:10 am

    Maybe one of his lackeys or fluffers told him he can plead insanity and stay out of jail that way? after all, if all of his other horrible negatives didn’t stop the deplorables from voting for him in 2016 and 2020, why would an admission of insanity added to the list stop them in 2024? He’s so used to having these things tried in the court of public opinion I honestly think it’s just now sinking in that this is not going away. But every appearance has to maximize fundraising so he keeps on with the lies to keep the cash flowing. I’m honestly expecting him to ask for a court appointed attorney at this point just so he doesn’t have to pay another retainer up front.

  131. 131.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @sdhays:

    @Scout211:

    (trumpov, on the stand)

    Smith: Mr. trump, in this excerpt from your recent Fox News interview, you claim to have been concerned that these boxes might have had your golf clothes in them, and that you didn’t want to accidentally give those clothes to NARA, is that correct?

    trump, petulantly: yes

    Smith: did you ever look in any of the boxes, to see if they held your golf clothes?

    trump, defiantly: no, I’m too busy

    Smith: did you ever ask an aide to go through the boxes, to see if they held your golf clothes?

    trump, triumphantly: no, of course not…those records were classi…er…wait…

    Smith: did you ever tell NARA that you would turn the records over promptly, but you wanted them to make sure there were no golf clothes in there (and if so, you wanted the clothes promptly returned)?

    trump, confused: but why would I do that? they wouldn’t find any…

    Smith: no?

    trump, short-circuiting: THEY WERE MY BOXES!!!

     

    This trial is going to be SO. STUPID., right up until the “Yer damn right I ordered the Code Red!” moment

  132. 132.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @Kay:

    but honestly Hunter doesn’t deserve such a loyal father.

    So what? Whatever it might take to stop me from trying to be there for my son in any way I can, this shit wouldn’t even move the needle.  I love the way Biden clearly loves his son, no matter what.  People need that sort of love, and deserving has nothing to do with it.

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 11:15 am

    Tough crowd this morning.  Not a lot of the milk of human kindness about.

  134. 134.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Speaking as the father of a troubled child, deserve has nothing to do with it. Need does.

    This.

  135. 135.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @randy khan: I will concede that incumbency gives him a leg up but the man himself had to withdraw from a campaign because he cribbed a few lines from other people.

    Dems are held to a higher standard.  That’s the problem.  Also, believe all the Billy Carter stuff came out after his brother was already president.

  136. 136.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 20, 2023 at 11:17 am

    @lowtechcyclist: Every child deserves parents as loving and loyal as the Bidens are to Hunter.

  137. 137.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 20, 2023 at 11:18 am

    This seals it…I will not vote for Hunter Biden in 2024!

  138. 138.

    stinger

    June 20, 2023 at 11:19 am

    Seems to me that Hunter’s conviction should take the air out of the “political” accusations regarding the Trump investigations. If Biden were trying to use the DOJ for his own purposes, surely he’d have managed to quash the investigations into his own son.

    And doesn’t this also show that Biden’s intent to beef up the IRS would have been a good thing? Republicans have been proven wrong about him and about Dem policies over and over and over.

  139. 139.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 20, 2023 at 11:19 am

    The Hunter conviction has no legs that I can see.  It’s boring.  It’s really, really boring, and Hunter isn’t a woman seeking high office, so there’s no deep need in the press and non-wingnut population to prove he’s a bad person.  I’m not sure this will even have fifteen minutes of fame.  It sure isn’t going to stand in any normie’s mind comparable to ‘Trump is on trial for stealing top secret documents.’

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    If Mitch McConnell isn’t on those phone calls, he knows who is and what they’re saying.

    This I’m sure is true.  The primary voters have proven eloquently that they don’t care what Mitch or the Money want, however.

  140. 140.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 11:19 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: Or, taken from another context, “deserve ain’t got nothin’ to do with it.”

  141. 141.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 11:20 am

    @randy khan:

    No candidate should ever be disqualified or even criticized because of the independent acts of their adult children.  Including Republican candidates.

  142. 142.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 11:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Speaking as the father of a troubled child, deserve has nothing to do with it. Need does.

    Thank you.

    And “loyalty” has nothing to do with it. It’s about love.

  143. 143.

    Joy in FL

    June 20, 2023 at 11:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Speaking as the father of a troubled child, deserve has nothing to do with it. Need does.

    yes. so perfectly stated.

  144. 144.

    JustRuss

    June 20, 2023 at 11:24 am

    Thanks Betty for watching that so I don’t have to.  Also ” Trump babbles in corkboard-pushpin-and-yarn dialect ” is gorgeous word-smithing.

  145. 145.

    randy khan

    June 20, 2023 at 11:24 am

    @OGLiberal:

    It’s true that the Billy Carter stuff came out after Jimmy was President.  And it was not mentioned at all during the contested 1980 primaries or the general election.

    And Hunter was a known quantity in 2020; there’s nothing here that should surprise anyone voting in 2024.  Even the MAGAs aren’t arguing that Hunter disqualifies Joe as President, but instead are saying that Joe did illegal things to help Hunter, which is a whole different argument.

  146. 146.

    OGLiberal

    June 20, 2023 at 11:24 am

    @Baud: Amen.  Not the world we live in but, amen.

  147. 147.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 20, 2023 at 11:26 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: The thing that gives me pause is that the real doom scenario for that case, where Judge Cannon just declares him acquitted by fiat and there is no appeal possible, requires her to act just like a cooperative normal judge up to the moment the trial begins–then she springs the surprise. I’d be less worried about that if she were obviously misbehaving, because that would get her booted off the case.

  148. 148.

    scav

    June 20, 2023 at 11:30 am

    Takes a bit of shine off the True Believers’ pride at spending a shitload of money to sit next to Their Real President and find out he was waving golf underwear and random newsclippings in their faces while babbling of state secrets.  And they were so honored at being in that Inner Circle!

  149. 149.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 20, 2023 at 11:33 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Trying to smear Joe Biden with Hunter’s problems is something they tried in 2020. I think this is one of those things that makes sense if you’re an extreme cultural conservative but not otherwise. To these people, children are extensions of their parents, and continuing to love your son who’s a junkie in his time of need is a sign of weakness. But to most regular people it’s just not.

  150. 150.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 11:33 am

    @trollhattan: “He always tells the truth.”

    What Big Brother says is truth.

  151. 151.

    satby

    June 20, 2023 at 11:35 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: amazing, and not in a good way.

  152. 152.

    satby

    June 20, 2023 at 11:37 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Well said.

  153. 153.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 11:37 am

    @Baud: Emphasis on “independent”. If the “President” installs them into the White House to bring peace in the Middle East or just take up a nice office in the basement, criticism is ok since they’re now White House employees.

    How they run his business is fair game too, since it’s all tied up into the President himself – the people running the Dump Organization, for example, deserve scrutiny whether they are blood relations of our Donnie or not.

  154. 154.

    Sure Lurkalot

    June 20, 2023 at 11:38 am

    Andrea Junker
    @Strandjunker
    BREAKING: Hunter Biden used the White House to find lenders for himself, gained 41 trademarks in China, made $640 million while “working” in daddy’s administration, and received $2 billion from the people behind 9/11.

    Whoops, never mind, that was Ivanka and Jared Kushner.

    Probably don’t pay their fair share of taxes either

  155. 155.

    Soprano2

    June 20, 2023 at 11:40 am

    @Sanjeevs: Conservatives will go crazy over this – they wanted a trial so badly!

  156. 156.

    mrmoshpotato

    June 20, 2023 at 11:43 am

    Excellent writing as usual, Betty C!

    But I can’t watch Putin’s babbling bitch and his resting butthole face.

  157. 157.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 11:43 am

    @stinger:

    And doesn’t this also show that Biden’s intent to beef up the IRS would have been a good thing?

    Yep. Just like VP Biden’s intent to fire Ukraine’s corrupt prosecutor was a good thing. From Fact Check dot org:

    As we have reported more than once last year, Biden traveled to Kyiv as vice president and warned Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, that the U.S. would withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees until Ukraine removed its prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, who was widely viewed as corrupt.

    But as Ronnie Reagan once said, “facts are stupid things.”

  158. 158.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 20, 2023 at 11:45 am

    I’m trying to remember the last scandal that was going to drag on Biden through the election, make it impossible to prosecute Trump, and make normies see Biden and Trump as equally corrupt when the press pushed it constantly.  Ah, right, it was Biden having documents.  It’s so easy to forget, now that its fifteen minutes are up.

    @Matt McIrvin:

    To these people, children are extensions of their parents, and continuing to love your son who’s a junkie in his time of need is a sign of weakness. But to most regular people it’s just not.

    Quite the contrary, I’d say.  Biden is very good at looking like a loving parent, because he is one.  It’s so authentic it goes right to the heart.  I think this outcome is so dull the press will forget fast, but if they try to make it a thing it will just endear Joe more to everyone with a shred of decency.

  159. 159.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 11:46 am

    Mr. Find Out has laid an icy grip on the former’s shriveled nutsack

    This makes me think that “Mr. Find Out” would be a great name for a bulldog.

  160. 160.

    James E Powell

    June 20, 2023 at 11:47 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I figure there have to be quite a few people who have years of unfiled tax returns because I regularly hear radio ads promising to work out IRS problems “no matter how many years you have not filed.”

  161. 161.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 11:48 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: it will just endear Joe more to everyone with a shred of decency.

    That’s no good, we need 51% of the American voting populace.

  162. 162.

    James E Powell

    June 20, 2023 at 11:53 am

    @OGLiberal:

    @randy khan:

    Also, believe all the Billy Carter stuff came out after his brother was already president.

    With respect, you are mistaken. Billy Carter was a constant embarrassment for the president. Racist joke, urinating on a runway, being an agent of the Libyan government, and more.

  163. 163.

    Betty Cracker

    June 20, 2023 at 11:53 am

    @Ken: It would! In 19th century gothic novels like Wuthering Heights, the dogs that protected the landed gentry often had names like “Throttler” or “Gnasher.” A name like “Mr. Find Out” would be a good 21st century update. ;-)

  164. 164.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 20, 2023 at 11:54 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: I agree with you. To most normies this is a plus. We are never going to get the die-hard MAGAs and other assorted Rs to vote for us. They are only about a 1/3 of the voting populace.

  165. 165.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 20, 2023 at 11:55 am

    We never did find out what Jared Kushner did with the PPEs stolen from Maryland and Massachusetts.

  166. 166.

    gvg

    June 20, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    @bbleh: Its a shame someone like Romney (Blech) isn’t set up to run now. They have dismissed all the respectable republicans for awhile now but that is who they should slink home to when all the nutters finally flame out.

    Needs some important Congressmen in Jail too, not just Trump to really drive home the points.

  167. 167.

    Mai Naem mobile

    June 20, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    I think it’s interesting that it’s the years 2017 and 2018 that the IRS went after Hunter Biden for. Makes me think TFG did sic the IRS on his supposed enemies. Remember the anal exam IRS audits of Andrew McCabe and  Jim Comey? Also, Mnuchin personally refusing to hand over TFG’s tax returns to the House but more than happy to turn over Biden’s.  It doesn’t excuse Hunter from paying his taxes but we would have been into COVID before they really figured out he hadn’t paid his taxes.

  168. 168.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot: Also from your Andrea Junker twitter link, (when you’ve lost Johnathan Turley…), a thread:

    Jonathan Turley
    @JonathanTurley
    Bret Baier conducted an extraordinary interview with Donald Trump who discussed the criminal allegations in detail. Statements of this kind are generally admissible at trial…
    3:06 PM · Jun 19, 2023

  169. 169.

    FelonyGovt

    June 20, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @OGLiberal: Eh- Because Democratic presidents are generally pretty scandal free, the best Republicans can usually do is find some fuckup in the family. Billy Carter (Billy Beer, anyone?), Roger Clinton, now Hunter Biden.

  170. 170.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 20, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    @gvg:

    Its a shame someone like Romney (Blech) isn’t set up to run now.

    It really is.  Repulsive to normies, uninspiring to the base.  A man where as soon as he was back in the limelight, all of America would go “Oh, THAT’S why I hated him.”  Perfect candidate to run against.

  171. 171.

    Mai Naem mobile

    June 20, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: and we never will. Between the sleeper cells TFG has placed all over government and Kushner spreading the PPE money to so many of his buddies he’ll be protected forever. Kushner is such a disgusting weaselly looking turd and he did so much damage to this country.

  172. 172.

    mrmoshpotato

    June 20, 2023 at 12:05 pm

    @gvg: Is George Santos’ lying bitch ass considered to be someone “important?”

  173. 173.

    Betty Cracker

    June 20, 2023 at 12:05 pm

    @Quinerly: Also interesting that Cannon’s trial date notification identified Ft. Pierce as the site. It’s a smallish city, and IIRC, the county from which jurors would presumably be drawn is purplish — it’s definitely not a Trump stronghold.

  174. 174.

    Ken

    June 20, 2023 at 12:05 pm

    @Betty Cracker: You’d also want the companion dog for the matched set. I don’t know of any breeds that have a particular reputation in the “fuck around” department, but if you bowdlerize to “Mr. Fool Around”, there’s plenty of choice.

  175. 175.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 12:06 pm

    @FelonyGovt: It must drive them crazy that they couldn’t find any fuckups with the Obama’s.

  176. 176.

    cain

    June 20, 2023 at 12:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker: She’s under a microscope and she knows that the road is paved with bombs and that Smith is not someone who hasn’t game out everything and so she’s going to have to play very close to the vest if she has shenanigans in mind.

  177. 177.

    jimmiraybob

    June 20, 2023 at 12:08 pm

    @JWR:

      We used to do the same. I tip a pint in your general direction.

  178. 178.

    Danielx

    June 20, 2023 at 12:11 pm

    Will be carved on Trump’s headstone:

    Died of Loggorhea.

  179. 179.

    Citizen Alan

    June 20, 2023 at 12:13 pm

    @OGLiberal:

    I would excuse Hunter and losing his bro was rough stuff but, dude, your dad has been running for president since before you could speak. Maybe have some discretion, especially when this was the one time your dad could win and actually did win.

    Not that this is any sort of defence, but Bill Clinton was not the 1st nor the last Democrat to risk throwing away everything he’d ever worked for politically because he couldn’t keep his fucking pants zipped up. Our party has a reputation for leaders who are not corrupt or evil, but who can be arrogant enough to think they can get away with things like that the same way republicans can.

  180. 180.

    Citizen Alan

    June 20, 2023 at 12:15 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    You just know that if a Republican had been hit with a gun charge years after the fact for admitting that they had previously owned a gun while they were previously on drugs, the entire  conservative media establishment would have jumped to their defense.

  181. 181.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @jimmiraybob: Ah, those were the days! 👍

  182. 182.

    Citizen Alan

    June 20, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @Kay: Honestly, that’s just BS. They want us to think that, but recall that when the entire media establishment was going after clinton for having an affair while in office, none of those bastards wanted to talk about all the republicans who were doing the same thing. Remember henry hyde confessing to an affair in his mid forties and it getting waved off as a youthful indiscretion.

  183. 183.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 12:19 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Wait, are you telling me that human beings run for office a Democrat?  Heaven forfend!

  184. 184.

    RaflW

    June 20, 2023 at 12:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, it’s a little depressing. I know we really need to win in ’24, but Joe Biden’s unbending love for his family (and, I believe, for the common woman, man and gender fluid person on the street) is an example for us all. And not an easy one.

  185. 185.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 12:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m not surprised that “people” get behind on their taxes. I’m suprised that the son of a senator and VP and President didn’t care enough to file his stupid taxes. Hunter has a higher bar to meet because Hunter is extraordinarily privileged. The obtuse stupidity pisses me off. Careless. And so disrespectful of his father.

  186. 186.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 12:26 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    I think Joe Biden has been a great President and I’ll do what I can to help him get re-elected but I’m not defending Hunter. Hunter is on his own.

  187. 187.

    RaflW

    June 20, 2023 at 12:27 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Someone on the terrible bird app observed dryly the other day, “that Afghanistan withdrawal sure is gonna punish Biden in ’24.”

    Predicting what could break thru to the rank and file voter has never been the Beltway’s strong suit.

  188. 188.

    NJHenderson

    June 20, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: We filed our taxes incorrectly one year (the year we bought our house) – we wound up owing more. The mistake was caught during Covid, and it was hard to get someone on the phone. I wound up via a complex phone tree in a completely different department, with a friendly person who still helped us. All interactions with them were like that. My FIL worked as a revenue officer with them until he retired and has some good stories. He has said many times, the IRS just wants to resolve things.

  189. 189.

    Citizen Alan

    June 20, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @OGLiberal:

    Dude, everyone knew about billy carter while jimmy was in office. The guy was marketing his own beer line to take advantage of his notoriety as jimmy carter’s wastrel brother. “Billy Beer.”

  190. 190.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @NJHenderson:

    I’ve dealt with them quite a bit on behalf of clients and they’ve always been completely reasonable and willing to work it out. They just want to get paid, like everyone else.

  191. 191.

    zhena gogolia

    June 20, 2023 at 12:31 pm

    The entire performance is laced with desperation, as if it has belatedly dawned on Mr. Fuck Around that Mr. Find Out has laid an icy grip on the former’s shriveled nutsack.

    Eat your heart out, Oscar Fucking Wilde!!!😂

  192. 192.

    gvg

    June 20, 2023 at 12:32 pm

    I am actually pretty pissed that Trump was treating classified intelligence so carelessly all through his Presidency that he was able to have a bunch in boxes and walk out the door with them at all. That is not how I would be handling such info if I was President and honestly I doubt that ANY prior president of either party did anything like that. Maybe 1 or 2 documents were out and about at any one time and somebody maybe could have sneaked a peek. But lots! In cardboard boxes! mixed in with other stuff? and following him around just because he like having things that made him feel important? My God what an idiot, a shit for brains treasonous buffoon! Every day of his damned Presidency, we were put at risk. I will never forgive his voters. They are drunk drivers of insane stupidity.

  193. 193.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 20, 2023 at 12:34 pm

    @RaflW:

    I know we really need to win in ’24, but Joe Biden’s unbending love for his family (and, I believe, for the common woman, man and gender fluid person on the street) is an example for us all. And not an easy one.

    In the debate when trump tried to embarrass Joe by bringing up Hunter (and that’s what this is all about, the cruelty is as ever the point) and Joe replied simply, “I love my son”, I suspect that resonated with a lot of people. It would have with my parents (who were already Democrats, but still…)

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    June 20, 2023 at 12:36 pm

    @PAM Dirac:

     It seems at this point that the elites have decided that drumpf is so toxic that he has to be cut down now, even if they can’t engineer a popular replacement.

     

    That’s how I see it too

  195. 195.

    Miss Bianca

    June 20, 2023 at 12:44 pm

    @RaflW:

    But to understand addition, it requires seeing the addict as, frankly, temporary mentally ill. Like, beyond bad judgement into all sorts of crazed compartmentalizing and destructive avoidance behaviors.

    Thank you for that reminder – I am dealing with a nightmare situation now with an alcoholic. Without getting into too many specific details, suffice it to say that I have been moving heaven and earth trying to undo the damage he’s done to the production I am working on, and to my theater in general – and getting nothing from this guy for weeks but toxic shit spewed in my face for my pains – and it’s been fatally easy to waste a lot of mental energy being furious at him for being so stupid and self-centered and reckless.

    (Boy howdy, did I come up with some Cracker-isms to skewer him with! If I hadn’t known that losing my temper in return would have just prolonged an already long and exhausting ordeal, I would have let fly on him with a few of them. At least composing these rants in my head helped me deal with him a little better in real time.)

    Seeing his drug addiction as a form of mental illness – not just “a disease” but specifically, a mental illness – helps dissipate some of that rage and enables me to feel some actual compassion mixed in with my judginess. (And at least last night he showed some glimmer of realization that I had, in fact, been saving his bacon by taking over the show rather than trying to emasculate him or whatever. Baby steps.)

  196. 196.

    sab

    June 20, 2023 at 12:44 pm

    @Baud: @OzarkHillbilly: I cut Hunter some slack because a lot this came in the wake of Beau dying so horribly, and Hunter was there for him throughout.

  197. 197.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Also interesting that Cannon’s trial date notification identified Ft. Pierce as the site. It’s a smallish city, and IIRC, the county from which jurors would presumably be drawn is purplish — it’s definitely not a Trump stronghold.

    it’d be interesting to find out, down the road, that Cannon is now cashing bigger checks from the Kochs than she ever was from trump/Putin

  198. 198.

    raven

    June 20, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    @gvg: \
    If I were King of the Forest, Not queen, not duke, not prince.
    My regal robes of the forest, would be satin, not cotton, not chintz.
    I’d command each thing, be it fish or fowl.
    With a woof and a woof and a royal growl – woof.
    As I’d click my heel, all the trees would kneel.
    And the mountains bow and the bulls kowtow.
    And the sparrow would take wing – If I – If I – were King!
    Each rabbit would show respect to me. The chipmunks genuflect to me.
    Though my tail would lash, I would show compash
    For every underling!
    If I – If I – were King!
    Just King!
    Monarch of all I survey — Mo–na-a-a–a-arch Of all I survey!

  199. 199.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 12:46 pm

    @Betty Cracker:  Yes, Ft. Pierce.  Interesting.  Plus this:

    Link

    In a written order, Cannon notes the parties could ask to push back the trial date because of the complexities of the case and issues related to classified information, both of which might draw out the timeline to trial.

  200. 200.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 12:51 pm

    People won’t start voting in the 2024 election for another 16 months.  The only people who will still remember this [ETA: Hunter charges] in 16 months are hard-core political junkies and hard-core RWNJs.

    Remember how the GOP shut down the government for most of October 2013?  It was a big deal at the time.  Remember how great the effect of that was on the 2014 midterms?  Me either.

  201. 201.

    The Moar You Know

    June 20, 2023 at 12:52 pm

    Also, believe all the Billy Carter stuff came out after his brother was already president.

    @OGLiberal: and Jimmy Carter served how many terms, exactly?

    Yeah.  It shouldn’t matter but it does.  And it matters for Democrats in a way that it absolutely does not for Republicans.  It’s absolutely unfair and it’s how it is.

    As to addiction, well, I was involved intimately with an addict for quite a few years.  I will just say this:  when an addict steals, it’s not because they’re an addict, but a thief.  When an addict doesn’t pay their taxes, it’s not because of the drugs, it’s because they’re a deadbeat and can’t be bothered.  When an addict ruins the lives of everyone around them, it’s not the booze, it’s because they’re an asshole.  I feel really fucking bad for Joe Biden because I have a bare glimpse of what he’s been dealing with for most of his kids life, and it’s enough to take the heart out of anyone.  That it hasn’t is a tribute to the man’s inner strength and decency.

    It sucks for all of us that his kid’s bullshit shenanigans may cost this nation far more than anyone could dream, but Hunter, I guarantee you, does not give a fuck about that.  Or about his dad.  Or really, about anything save for what he wants, which is money and drugs to spend the money on.

    The thing that may save us is that this will be long-done deal by election day, and that a LOT of people have a kid like Hunter Biden.  It surely won’t affect my vote.  This isn’t on Joe.

  202. 202.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 12:53 pm

    @Kay: Hunter Biden was a person with a substance abuse problem, an addiction.  That is the standard one needs to apply.

  203. 203.

    Jeffro

    June 20, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    LOVE IT: after the NYT headline article about Hunter, not one but TWO follow-up pieces

    1. “Did Hunter Biden get a better deal than would be given to the average person?”
    2. “Republicans pushed claims of injustice in response to the guilty pleas from Hunter Biden”

    Just in case y’all were curious, there does not appear to be a third piece focusing on how Democrats (or anyone else) were pleased to see that, AS EXPECTED, President Biden did not interfere in this case, nor did he rage-tweet about it, etc etc

    Only Republican outrage matters

  204. 204.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 20, 2023 at 12:56 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    and Jimmy Carter served how many terms, exactly?

    Yeah.  It shouldn’t matter but it does.

    I’d be surprised if Billy made more than a trivial difference.  The way “day XXX of the Iranian hostage situation” took over the news was the main thing that brought him down.

  205. 205.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:00 pm

    Holy fuck, people.  I hope no one in your lives ever has problems, or that if they do they have someone else on whom they can rely.

  206. 206.

    The Moar You Know

    June 20, 2023 at 1:02 pm

    I’d be surprised if Billy made more than a trivial difference.  The way “day XXX of the Iranian hostage situation” took over the news was the main thing that brought him down.

    @lowtechcyclist: I was a kid back then.  I agree in the larger scheme his brother was rarely referred to, largely as a joke.

    The media made good and sure the hostage anvil was padlocked around Carter’s neck for a year and a half.

    Reagan would have won anyway, regardless of Billy, regardless of the hostages.  This country absolutely despised Carter, largely so far as I can tell for being honest.

  207. 207.

    frosty

    June 20, 2023 at 1:02 pm

    Betty C, you’re writing is a joy to read!

  208. 208.

    Ramona Rosario

    June 20, 2023 at 1:03 pm

    @Quinerly: Good grief ! How could the pretrial proceedings concerning classified and national defense documents possibly be completed by then?

    Or perhaps, I am wildly misinformed!

  209. 209.

    Jackie

    June 20, 2023 at 1:06 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: Agreed. Addiction doesn’t care who you are, OR who your parents are.

    I really hope he continues to stay clean. Having supporting parents who love him unconditionally will help – more so than anything else.

  210. 210.

    Jackie

    June 20, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    @Princess: A new CNN poll is out. TIFG’s approval rate with the GQP is DOWN 10 pts from May. His GQP base is at that old familiar 27% who support him running for office even if convicted.

  211. 211.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 1:15 pm

    @Jeffro:

    3. “What Hunter Biden’s plea deals tells us about Biden’s age.”

  212. 212.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 1:15 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hunter Biden was a person with a substance abuse problem, an addiction.  That is the standard one needs to apply.

    And his is a good example of cases that are recommended for diversion.  As a former mental health provider, I’ve signed attendance forms for my clients’ probations officers over the years and while it may not be perfect, diversion can be a crucial part of a person’s recovery.

  213. 213.

    cmorenc

    June 20, 2023 at 1:16 pm

    @JWR: The “other” charges allege that father joe & son hunter received a $5 million (in some versions $10 million) dollar bribe in some dealings in Ukraine.  Something about hiding it via a byzantine complex series of bank transactions.  Supposedly there was an informant with inside info on all this, which informant has disappeared.  And so on.

  214. 214.

    Steve in the ATL

    June 20, 2023 at 1:17 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
     

    Tough crowd this morning. Not a lot of the milk of human kindness about.

    Lots of lawyers here!

  215. 215.

    Ramona Rosario

    June 20, 2023 at 1:19 pm

    @jimmiraybob: Fell off the couch laughing reading this!

  216. 216.

    Scout211

    June 20, 2023 at 1:21 pm

    @cmorenc: Rudy said the whistle blower died.  Comer said the whistle blower can’t be found.  The Democrats say the FBI file doesn’t actually say what the Republicans say it says. Plus, they were warned not to talk about what is actually in the FBI file.

    I call it the Biden-Burisma-boogaloo.  It’s a thing, really!

    Narrator:  “It’s really not a thing.”

  217. 217.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:21 pm

    @Scout211: Very true.  It is a recognition that the conduct stems from the addiction and that, if the addict can get into recovery, the illegal conduct is unlikely to recur.

  218. 218.

    Cameron

    June 20, 2023 at 1:21 pm

    No document!  No document! You’re the document!  I’m doc-ME-ment!

  219. 219.

    PAM Dirac

    June 20, 2023 at 1:23 pm

    @NJHenderson:

    He has said many times, the IRS just wants to resolve things.

    I had a long career in the federal government, a good chunk of it in management. There are a huge number of mandates, reporting requirements, data calls, etc to deal with and most are just political posturing. But still there is someone who is responsible for implementing it. They no doubt get tons of push back and whining about how ridiculous the requirement is. I learned pretty early on that is was much better for everyone’s time and sanity to skip the whining and go with a “how can we get this off your desk as quickly as possible” attitude. That worked for me when I made a fairly big mistake on our taxes one year. Get the problem identified, understood, and solved quickly. I then mentioned I had made the mistake on the next year’s taxes that I had just filed. The IRS person said wait til I get the notice of error and go through the same process. Never got the the notice. I aways wonder if that was a favor for dealing with the problem reasonably.

  220. 220.

    cmorenc

    June 20, 2023 at 1:25 pm

    @PAM Dirac: Also, Cannon may have realized that it is much more advantageous long-term to her career to play the Trump case straight-up than to play the sycophantic hack, and to use this occasion to expunge the hack-stink she initially created.  Doesn’t mean she isn’t still a Federalist hack, just not (any longer) a MAGA hack.

  221. 221.

    Ruckus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:27 pm

    Unless Baier recorded Trump setting his own crotch on fire, it’s hard to see how it could be more damaging.

    The only problems with waiting for SFB to set his own crotch on fire is, one – he might like it, two – fire extinguishers, three – he might not understand how to light the match.

    Let’s face it, the US is likely being laughed at by much of the rest of the world, that we are still having to deal with this idiot. I mean sure Britain has it’s issues with it’s ex political “leaders” and Russia is pissing off pretty much the rest of the planet with it’s asinine “leader” but still This Guy? The legal train gathers speed slowly, especially with this much weight on board but still This Guy? It’s not that he hasn’t been This Guy for his entire adult life, it’s that he played on the side lines – until he didn’t. ShitForBrains for president? There are over 300 million of us and HE got elected? Sure I had to deal with a couple of higher up dipshits in the Navy that would haven’t been any worse than him but they were as obviously bad as him and no one would have voted for them to fuck up the country. His lying is like his stupidity, it’s natural, it’s all encompassing, it only gets worse as time goes on…. He’s been in over his head for all of his adult life because he’s a child that never had to grow up and so never did. Or was able to.

  222. 222.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:28 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Zing!!

  223. 223.

    PAM Dirac

    June 20, 2023 at 1:28 pm

    @Jeffro:

    it’d be interesting to find out, down the road, that Cannon is now cashing bigger checks from the Kochs than she ever was from trump/Putin

    If she isn’t doing that now, I strongly suspect that she sees that her chances of cashing big checks is much, much more likely aligning with the Kochs than drumpf.

  224. 224.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 20, 2023 at 1:37 pm

    @cmorenc:

    The “other” charges allege that father joe & son hunter received a $5 million (in some versions $10 million) dollar bribe in some dealings in Ukraine.

    THAT?  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!  The ‘crime’ where some friend of Giuliani’s totally said it happened and that friend is totally real except you can’t meet him because he, uh, he died, yeah, he died?  The scandal that already has ‘What the HELL are those House Republicans going on about now?’ stink all over it?  Yeah, not worried about that one.

  225. 225.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:41 pm

    @PAM Dirac: What makes you think that she is corrupt in the sense of literally being bought off as opposed to simply being  an adherent of a corrupt ideology?

  226. 226.

    StringOnAStick

    June 20, 2023 at 1:44 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: The hard-core MAGA also already moved to Newsmax and OANN, so FOX is trying to convince people that already either left FOX or have already decided tRump is a dirtbag, just like my hard-core RW father had decided before the indictment over classified documents landed.

  227. 227.

    JWR

    June 20, 2023 at 1:44 pm

    @cmorenc:

    The “other” charges allege that father joe & son hunter received a $5 million (in some versions $10 million) dollar bribe…

    That one crossed my mind, but I thought it only existed in wingnut fever dreams, not on normie TV news.

    ETA or what @Frankensteinbeck said.

  228. 228.

    Jackie

    June 20, 2023 at 1:46 pm

    @sdhays: I guess the “real reason” TIFG didn’t want anyone to look in “his boxes” was so they wouldn’t see his dirty clothes 🤔🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

  229. 229.

    Chief Oshkosh

    June 20, 2023 at 1:46 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: As the uncle of two troubled nephews, the older of whom ended up committing suicide during the worst of the pandemic, I completely agree. Addiction is biochemical, physiological, and psychological. Making “poor” decisions is all part of the condition. It can be very, very difficult to keep loving them and supporting them, but the alternative is the massive holes in many people’s lives that the older nephew left behind.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 1:47 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t need to apply anything. I’m completely sympathetic to addicts (although not fooled by them – a lot of them are selfish assholes and would be assholes w/out an addiction.

    He still behaves like a jerk now that he’s sober. He really had to launch an art career? He couldn’t just do some head down/quiet work job until his father was out of office? It goes past the point of familial love to a douchebag taking advantage of a good person.

  231. 231.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 1:49 pm

    @Jeffro: I don’t care about Hunter Biden. I don’t care about Tiffany Trump or Barron. I don’t care about the Obama girls or the Bush girls. I care about them as I would any other human being, and it’s worth the press keeping an eye on politicians’ families because it’s a well-worn avenue for corruption, but that’s it.

    Is there any indication Joe Biden used his office to benefit Hunter Biden in any way? No? Then I don’t care.

    I’m still waiting on finding out what Jared sold to the Saudi’s to get that $1 billion “loan” from the Saudi investment fund that the fund’s own management advised against.

  232. 232.

    Ruckus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:52 pm

    @Jackie:

    It’s SFB, therefore it’s simple.

    He’s basically a 3 yr old in a very badly designed adult body.

    “It’s MINE, you can’t have it,” said in a very pouty voice.

    The End.

  233. 233.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 20, 2023 at 1:52 pm

    @Kay: Our mileage varies.

  234. 234.

    sdhays

    June 20, 2023 at 1:52 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have no evidence to suggest she’s taking bribes, but Justice Thomas has established that it’s totally ok if the Koch’s are “family friends”.

  235. 235.

    NotMax

    June 20, 2023 at 1:57 pm

    Finally America has an explanation for the multiplicity of photos of a bare-chested Dolt 45 on the links.
    //

  236. 236.

    The Moar You Know

    June 20, 2023 at 1:58 pm

    I’m completely sympathetic to addicts (although not fooled by them – a lot of them are selfish assholes and would be assholes w/out an addiction.

    @Kay: thank you for saying this.  Having been on the receiving end of it, it is hard to swallow when someone says “OMG I’M SORRY IT WAS THE DRUGS” because it’s not the fucking drugs.  Or booze or whatever the bag in question is.

  237. 237.

    artem1s

    June 20, 2023 at 1:58 pm

    @Baud: ​

    No candidate should ever be disqualified or even criticized because of the independent acts of their adult children. Including Republican candidates.

    Beg to differ. If Poppy Bush had been made to answer for the interference he was running to keep his Barb’s adult child, W out of federal prison we might have avoided the decades of criminal activity by Poppie and his cronies (Cheney, Rove, Gonzalez, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Alito, Roberts, etc…).​

  238. 238.

    Baud

    June 20, 2023 at 2:00 pm

    @artem1s:

    Those were both candidates for office, and by your own description, the situation implicates Daddy Bush’s own actions.

  239. 239.

    The Moar You Know

    June 20, 2023 at 2:00 pm

    What makes you think that she is corrupt in the sense of literally being bought off as opposed to simply being  an adherent of a corrupt ideology?

    @Omnes Omnibus: I really doubt she’s taking fat sacks of cash in the parking garage.  The problem with an adherent of a corrupt ideology is that you can’t outbid it.

  240. 240.

    Shana

    June 20, 2023 at 2:04 pm

    @Jeffro: the other thing about mixing clothing and documents that I haven’t seen mentioned is that clothing is in “the residence “ portion of the White House. What are documents doing there?

  241. 241.

    Barry

    June 20, 2023 at 2:09 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: “We never did find out what Jared Kushner did with the PPEs stolen from Maryland and Massachusetts.”

     

    Sold it on the black market, of course.

  242. 242.

    Ruckus

    June 20, 2023 at 2:17 pm

    @Kay:

    Sure, Hunter is well over old enough to be considered an adult. Doesn’t mean he truly is one. Many adults as I’m sure you well know, never grow up. Some are missing some of the tools, some are not capable of understanding the tools and some are unwilling to use them and grow up. That the parents are good sometimes helps but as often makes no difference. We are humans. We run the entire repertoire of emotions, intelligence, skills, desires, abilities, addictions and possible combinations of all of them. And the sum total of this is a human being, with all the proclivities, successes, defaults, effort, desires and abilities, who sometimes/often still never add up to the total.

  243. 243.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 20, 2023 at 2:38 pm

    @Shana:

    the other thing about mixing clothing and documents that I haven’t seen mentioned is that clothing is in “the residence “ portion of the White House. What are documents doing there?

    Or, perhaps even more disturbing, what were TFG’s socks and underwear and horrible polyester golf shirts doing in the Oval?

    // (but not very)

  244. 244.

    RaflW

    June 20, 2023 at 2:52 pm

    @NJHenderson: Yeah, when I was behind, I got help. The enrolled agent I hired called the IRS (on a much faster direct line!), and basically said “We’re requesting X months to research and resolve mister W’s returns, can you pause enforcement?” and they just said “Yep, no problem.” Presumably because the IRS just wanted the information to come in and be accurate (I had over-withheld so there weren’t really even fines ticking up).

  245. 245.

    JML

    June 20, 2023 at 2:53 pm

    the Hunter Biden stuff is classic GOP telling of themselves again. They’re willing to use their offices to enrich their families and take officials actions to steer money and prestige to their family and ignore all ethical boundaries, so they assume that everyone else does too.

    Addiction is rough stuff. It sounds like Hunter Biden’s life really went off the rails when Beau got sick, and he made a lot of bad choices. Maybe he’ll get his life back together, maybe not. Hopefully this plea is part of a healthier path for him, but it might all go to crap again. But there’s zero to show that Joe did anything other than love and care about his son. Which is not always easy. And not easy for the other kids, once Captain Screwup sucks all the energy out of every family gathering or conversation. The Biden family seems to be handling all of this with compassion and love, which is the bets any of us can hope for.

    From a crass political standpoint, I really don’t see any down side to Joe Biden continuing to maintaining his relationship to son the way he has. the people raging about Hunter are unpersuadable, the best we can hope for is that they stay home.

  246. 246.

    AM in NC

    June 20, 2023 at 2:58 pm

    Probably a dead thread, but I called odious NC Senator Ted Budd’s DC and Greensboro offices today, mentioned the FOX interview and asked what Sen. Budd is going to do about the longstanding and ongoing threat to US NatSec that is Donald Trump.

    Staffer/Intern in DC referred me to Budd’s lame-ass “let the legal process play out” and I said, that’s all well and good, but the man admitted last night on TV that  he did what he was indicted for, so still no comment?  After Budd has been accusing Democrats of every crime under the sun with no evidence AND no pending litigation?  That corrupt dog don’t hunt.   I closed with saying this is not a partisan issue; it’s an American issue and it is time for everyone to choose whether Party or US NatSec is more important – because those 2 things are now at odds for Trump supporters.

    Staffer/Intern said he would surely pass on the comment and sounded like he actually was shaken by this situation.

  247. 247.

    Kay

    June 20, 2023 at 3:14 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Hunter might behave like a selfish jerk because he is one. Since he was a big enough jerk sober to write a big self aggrandizing book and become an “artist” (just to make sure he stays in the public eye) I think the addiction was incidental to the bad behavior.

    I hope he stays busy with a grown up life and out of the news for the rest of the campaign.

  248. 248.

    Beeb

    June 20, 2023 at 3:17 pm

    @jonas: That is not what he is accused of.  He is accused of filing late, and therefore paying late.  The statute itself only carries misdemeanor charges.

  249. 249.

    Ruckus

    June 20, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    We all make poor decisions. Some of us learn from them. Some of us make far fewer poor decisions than others. Others make far more. We run the entire range of very good to pure shit. And every point inbetween.

    Not all of us make good decisions because some humans are incapable of that. Some because that’s the way their brain works, some because that’s how they want their brain to work, and some because they aren’t capable of learning better.

  250. 250.

    Sallycat

    June 20, 2023 at 3:28 pm

    Betty, federal juries are drawn from the counties that make up the section of the court district.  A friend in Sarasota served on federal grand jury in Tampa.  So you will be in a jury pool with folks from different places.

  251. 251.

    The Thin Black Duke

    June 20, 2023 at 3:44 pm

    Every single member of the Trump family worked to undermine this country. Hunter Biden didn’t, so I’m not going to go into a holier-than-thou rant about what a disgusting, weak-minded addict he is. Sorry.

  252. 252.

    Mallard Filmore

    June 20, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

     

    And if they want to demand that big shots have a harder time getting away with cheating on their taxes …

    “so, the extra 80 million dollars for more IRS agents is a GOOD thing, yes?”

  253. 253.

    Mallard Filmore

    June 20, 2023 at 4:02 pm

    Precious few of us get what we deserve, whether blessings or terror.

  254. 254.

    Ruckus

    June 20, 2023 at 4:03 pm

    @stinger:

    Republicans have been proven wrong about him and about Dem policies over and over and over.

    So?

    They still think that their’s is the only way, that all the restrictions on normal humans without 8 figure bank accounts and none for those with white skin and 8 figure bank accounts is fine, proper and normal.

  255. 255.

    Mousebumples

    June 20, 2023 at 4:04 pm

    Late to the thread, and just wanted to endorse that people at the IRS want to help – if you can get them on the line.

    Impossible to get through last fall, but only a 5-10 minute hold when I called a few weeks ago. Some tech snafus could be sorted out but the staffers on the phone are helpful.

  256. 256.

    Eunicecycle

    June 20, 2023 at 4:12 pm

    @Mallard Filmore: and that’s usually a good thing.

  257. 257.

    brantl

    June 21, 2023 at 11:49 am

    @OGLiberal: pretty freaking trivial charges, that aren’t ever brought alone. They intended not to come away empty-handed, and if you read between the lines, empty -handed is exactly what they are.

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