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You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Moneyballsacks (Open Thread)

Moneyballsacks (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  July 16, 20238:54 am| 283 Comments

This post is in: Elections 2024, Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity

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The Q2 campaign fundraising report deadline was yesterday, and Politico posted some tea-leaf reading here. A few highlights:

  • Politico described the overall fundraising report as “a little underwhelming.”
  • Small-dollar donors are scarce for GOP candidates, which Politico interprets as a troubling sign for Repubs in general and also a signal that Joe Biden is a “mediocre fundraising driver for conservatives.”
  • Oligarch candidates Burgum and Ramaswamy gave their own campaigns lots of money.
  • About 85% of donations to the DeSantis campaign came from oligarchs writing big fat checks rather than small-dollar donations.
  • Mike Pence’s fundraising results are anemic — he might not make the cut for the first debate due to lack of individual donors. But at least he’s doing better than Asa Hutchinson.
  • Nikki Haley has been in the race twice as long as fellow South Carolinian Tim Scott, but he raised more money.

The New York Times also reported that the DeSantis operation shed some staff, but according to anonymous staffers, the layoffs involved fewer than 10 people, and possibly the campaign is just shuffling them over to the DeSantis Super PAC.

The real problem is that DeSantis hasn’t figured out how to turn on the bigot spigot like Trump did, probably because Trump still has his pail under that tap. Some excerpts from the NYT coverage:

An aide, Andrew Romeo, described the campaign’s circumstances in an upbeat tone.

“Americans are rallying behind Ron DeSantis and his plan to reverse Joe Biden’s failures and restore sanity to our nation, and his momentum will only continue as voters see more of him in person, especially in Iowa,” he said in a statement. “Defeating Joe Biden and the $72 million behind him will require a nimble and candidate-driven campaign, and we are building a movement to go the distance.”

“Candidate-driven” meaning, driven by the sparkling personality and inspirational message of…Ron DeSantis? Okay then!

Mr. DeSantis’s struggles appear to be not just about the numbers, but also with the campaign’s message. Late last week, two top DeSantis advisers, Dave Abrams and Tucker Obenshain, were announced to be leaving to join an outside group supporting Mr. DeSantis.

The message is a noun, a verb and “woke.” That’s it. My feeling is it’s not the kind of message that lends itself to subtle tweaks.

Still, Mr. DeSantis’s allies note that he is further ahead in polls in Iowa than Mr. Bush was in the fall of 2015 and that he has a more natural constituency in Iowa than other challengers.

Oof. If outperforming Jeb Bush circa 2015 is your success metric, you are in big trouble! Also, didn’t that “natural constituency” in Iowa deliver a win for Ted Cruz in 2016? Also not a president!

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

283Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 9:06 am

    An aide, Andrew Romeo, described the campaign’s circumstances in an upbeat tone.

    And then wasted a ton of ink transcribing a long statement attacking Biden.

    ETA: Garbage.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 9:08 am

    Also, too, my campaign is also candidate driven. Still trying to figure out how to drive people to me rather than away from me.

  3. 3.

    Amir Khalid

    July 16, 2023 at 9:10 am

    “Americans are rallying behind recoiling from Ron DeSantis…”

    There. Correctified.

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 9:10 am

    Iowa continues on the road to becoming a perfect reverse barometer for Republicans.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 9:13 am

    @Baud

    Still trying to figure out how to drive people to me rather than away from me.

    Free doughnuts daily until the inauguration!
    ;)

  6. 6.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:16 am

    Joe Biden is a “mediocre fundraising driver for conservatives.”

    NYT Pitchbot: “Biden’s campaign showing troubling signs of weakness as Republicans can’t even muster the energy to donate to his opponents.”

  7. 7.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2023 at 9:16 am

    A *nimble* campaign. Less is more!

  8. 8.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 9:17 am

    Mr. DeSantis’s struggles appear to be not just about the numbers, but also with the campaign’s message. Late last week, two top DeSantis advisers, Dave Abrams and Tucker Obenshain, were announced to be leaving to join an outside group supporting Mr. DeSantis.

    Just as a matter of writing, this is a non sequitur. What does the fact that two advisors left have to do with problems with the campaign message?

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 9:18 am

    @Geminid

    Trickle down penury.
    //

  10. 10.

    Spanky

    July 16, 2023 at 9:18 am

    Since OT, somebody should send up the Bat Signal to Billin, because today’s APOD has thrown down the gauntlet.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 9:19 am

    @Geminid:

    Ron be nimble
    Ron be quick
    Ron’s jumped the shark cuz he’s a big dick.

  12. 12.

    p.a.

    July 16, 2023 at 9:20 am

    @Baud:

    Also, too, my campaign is also candidate driven. Still trying to figure out how to drive people to me rather than away from me.

     

    Controlled burns

     

    Open thread so:  coming to the conclusion that turning off a/c to give it (and my utility bill) a break with high of 75° with 100% humidity is not comfort-optimal.  I hope earth’s climate appreciates my “sacrifice”.

    I have been a/c at outside temp 85° and above for a few years but as I age the “I worked my ass off I deserve to be comfortable” entitlement bullshit just creeps in.  Gotta fight it.

  13. 13.

    Suzanne

    July 16, 2023 at 9:20 am

    Mr. DeSantis’s allies note that he is further ahead in polls in Iowa than Mr. Bush was in the fall of 2015

    PLEASE CLAP!
    I hope he follows Jeb’s lead and also fucks right off.

  14. 14.

    zhena gogolia

    July 16, 2023 at 9:23 am

    @Baud: Maggie is one of the authors. Not known for her prose style.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 9:23 am

    @p.a.:

    I hate it when the temps are relatively low but the humidity is high.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 9:28 am

    @Suzanne

    But- but- Brink’s trucks!
    //

  17. 17.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 9:32 am

    DeSantis would do well to get ‘woke’ himself, because he sure as shit is asleep at the switch in his alleged day job.  Migrants, college employees, insurance companies, young people are splitting, inflation is skyrocketing, and he’s – farting around being unpleasant in Iowa and ramping up his brown-shirt ‘state guard.’  Good job!  Oh – I forgot about getting in a big, totally unnecessary go-round with the state’s largest employer.  Is there anything this man can’t do?

  18. 18.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:32 am

    @Baud, @p.a.:
    Maybe hire teams of beaters like they use with grouse in Scotland. Or stay local and just hire beaters that work for loan sharks.

  19. 19.

    dmsilev

    July 16, 2023 at 9:33 am

    @NotMax: Which were, for some reason, always running in reverse.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    July 16, 2023 at 9:34 am

    @Baud:

    Also, too, my campaign is also candidate driven. Still trying to figure out how to drive people to me rather than away from me.

    Nets, or possibly strong magnets.

  21. 21.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:38 am

    Here’s something interesting I found on The Mastodon.  An IT person working in Antarctica.

    Via https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@radiatoryang/110721617892666099.

  22. 22.

    narya

    July 16, 2023 at 9:39 am

    Beer 5k today, in the wildfire haze–though if I look at the “monitors near me” map, along the lakefront is actually just fine. Of course, the run is not along the lakefront. I’m really lucky, though–the lake really keeps the temps bearable through the summer, sometimes with a ceiling fan added. I don’t have air conditioners, so this is a good thing; generally there are a few days of misery, where the fans don’t help much, but in general it’s quite lovely, and my electric bill is less than $40/month.

  23. 23.

    Spanky

    July 16, 2023 at 9:40 am

    @Baud:

    I hate it when the temps are relatively low but the humidity is high.

    Yeah, Dew point is the number you want to watch. Under 60 F is great. 60-70 is OK.

    The dewpoint here in balmy Southern MD is currently 74. Lower than yesterday, so far.

  24. 24.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 9:40 am

    OK, since it’s an open thread, something nice here in Florida (in fact, there are a lot of nice things here: it’s just that Republicans aren’t any of them).  Saw a wonderful production of Fame at the West Coast Black Theater last night.  The only adults were the ones playing instructors; the rest of the cast were from the theater’s youth program, ranging in age from 9 to 18.  As good as any adult theater performance I’ve seen, and I don’t even like musicals.

  25. 25.

    CaseyL

    July 16, 2023 at 9:41 am

    @dmsilev:

    Nets, or possibly strong magnets.

    Strong magnets? Depends on how “magnetic” his personality is, hur hur.

    Though, speaking of DeSantis, whose personality can be described as anti-magnetic, the magnets would have to have some kind of reverse polarity, to overcome the repelling effect.

  26. 26.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 9:41 am

    Still, Mr. DeSantis’s allies note that he is further ahead in polls in Iowa than Mr. Bush was in the fall of 2015 and that he has a more natural constituency in Iowa than other challengers.

    Oof. If outperforming Jeb Bush circa 2015 is your success metric, you are in big trouble! Also, didn’t that “natural constituency” in Iowa deliver a win for Ted Cruz in 2016? Also not a president!

    Republican caucus voters in Iowa are not great at picking the candidate who eventually wins the party’s nomination. The last time they did that was George W. Bush in 2004 when he was unopposed.

  27. 27.

    narya

    July 16, 2023 at 9:41 am

    @Layer8Problem: There’s a fun book: Big Dead Place. It’s a quick and entertaining read, about life in Antarctica.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 9:42 am

    @Cameron: Shhh! We don’t want him to come home and pay attention to all the problems he either directly caused or ignored like every other Repub governor! ;-)

    Seriously, though — this business of people with big important jobs just vamoosing for months at a time to campaign for another big important job is embarrassing. It reveals them as nonessential workers.

  29. 29.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 9:42 am

    @Layer8Problem: Beatings will continue until the poll numbers improve?

  30. 30.

    JPL

    July 16, 2023 at 9:43 am

    @Spanky: That tops Bill’s pictures  and that means alot.   Bill’s pictures are amazing.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 9:44 am

    @Layer8Problem

    “Have you t-tried t-t-turning it off and b-b-back on again?”
    :)

    Calls for a little silly chilly music. Baby, It’s Cold Outside.

  32. 32.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 9:47 am

    @Betty Cracker: “Hi.  I’m Ron DeSantis.  I’m running for President and, while I might be non-essential, I’m not woke!”  Since ‘woke’ is pretty much the only word in his vocabulary, should we start calling his acolytes “zombies?”

  33. 33.

    rikyrah

    July 16, 2023 at 9:47 am

    Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊

  34. 34.

    Spanky

    July 16, 2023 at 9:48 am

    @JPL: To be fair, the top of the Tyrolian Alps is tough to beat.

  35. 35.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:48 am

    @Cameron:  And donations, don’t forget the donations.  Also, too, probably on the task list for the brown shirts Florida’s governor is organizing.

  36. 36.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:50 am

    @NotMax:  I’m hearing that in frozen Irish.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 9:51 am

    @Cameron: Is there anything this man can’t do?

    Good.​ He can’t do good.

  38. 38.

    Fair Economist

    July 16, 2023 at 9:53 am

    “bigot spigot” LOL

    @Spanky: Whoa, pretty!

  39. 39.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 9:53 am

    Trump is weaker in Iowa than he is in some other early states so DeSantis is probably setting up a possible Iowa win as “huge victory!”

  40. 40.

    Layer8Problem

    July 16, 2023 at 9:53 am

    @narya:  Thanks, sounds intriguing!

  41. 41.

    Juju

    July 16, 2023 at 9:56 am

    I wonder if Andrew Romeo’s nose grew, or his pants spontaneously combusted when he made that comment?

    The real big problem with all of the republican candidates for president is that they are all creepy slimy in some way or an other, some skin crawlingly so. They all make me go eeeyick!!

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    July 16, 2023 at 9:57 am

    @Baud:

    I feel you. Putting on the air because of humidity 😡

  43. 43.

    Juju

    July 16, 2023 at 9:58 am

    @NotMax: that depends on the type of donut. I am not wasting my time on a donut that doesn’t have chocolate.

  44. 44.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 10:01 am

    None of this makes any difference. Trump is going to be the GOP nominee and is going to have more than enough money.

    Six months ago I thought Trump’s legal problems might bring him down – not anymore. Trump’s dark cultish magic and the legal systems inability to move at a pace exceeding a crawl has disabused me of that hope.

    Still, I think Biden wins, if he avoids slipping on the two big banana peels that litter his path to victory – his age and a recession.

  45. 45.

    tobie

    July 16, 2023 at 10:02 am

    Are heat rashes on the rise? I got the first one in my life this week.

  46. 46.

    HinTN

    July 16, 2023 at 10:02 am

    @Geminid:

    A *nimble* thimble campaign. Less is more!

    In keeping with the assertion.

  47. 47.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2023 at 10:02 am

    Tucker Obenshain has a familiar last name, so I looked him up. Sure enough, he’s the son of Virginia State Senator Mark Obenshain (Harrisonburg). His grandfather Richard Obenshain is sometimes credited as the “architect” of the “modern,” hard-right Virginia Republican party.

    Mark Obenshain beat John Warner in the 1978 Senate primary. Obenshain died in a plane crash soon after, and then Warner replaced him and won.

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 10:03 am

    A favorite observation about Florida.

    “They didn’t know where they was goin’ but they knew where they was wasn’t it.”
    – Lord Buckley* (speaking of the 16th century gadabout Alvar Nunez Cabeza de Vaca expediton’s exploring Florida, encountering crocodiles and swarms of dive bombing insects galore)
    ;)

    *comic monologist and eccentric extraordinaire

  49. 49.

    Juju

    July 16, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @Baud: I live in eastern NC. It’s 81 degrees and 100% humidity. I didn’t know it could be that high without raining. The WeatherBug says 81 feels like 97. Bleh.

  50. 50.

    HinTN

    July 16, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @Spanky: Rivers of fire, I command thee!

    Beautiful; I am sure Billin is up to the challenge.

  51. 51.

    Kelly

    July 16, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @Baud: Candidate driven means you drive yourself to campaign events.

  52. 52.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 10:05 am

    @Kay: This Tall Corn Stater sees no signs of this. Trump is going to win the Iowa caucus easily.

  53. 53.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    July 16, 2023 at 10:05 am

    Is anybody else here going down the rabbit hole of the Gilgo Beach murders? Seen the “Manhattan Architect’s” shitty house?

    I have a suspicion that he may be the most prolific serial killer ever, or at least killed more than Rivkin.  It’s clear he hasn’t been spending his time working – but instead was busy stalking invisible victims that nobody would miss (I think he was starting to transition to more visible prey, which was why the task force moved on him now).

    Anyway, that was some solid police work.

  54. 54.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    July 16, 2023 at 10:09 am

    @p.a.:

    We’ve yet to turn on the AC in our house this summer in Louisville…

  55. 55.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 10:10 am

    @Kay: Rolling Stone mentioned the Iowa gambit too, quoting that same big fat liar from the DeSantis campaign who’s quoted in the OP:

    Iowa is now the focus, according to some supporters, and DeSantis is expected to campaign heavily in the state. Though he is trailing in polls in Iowa, his advisers told Politico that he may have a bit of an advantage right now after Trump attacked the state’s popular Republican governor, Kim Reynolds, for remaining neutral about the candidates.

    “Donald Trump gave us an opening in Iowa this week, and we’re taking it,” Romeo told Politico.

    Trump is weaker in Iowa than in other states, but he’s still up 20 points over DeSantis. I mean, I guess it’s DeSantis’s best shot, but it still looks pretty bleak.

  56. 56.

    moonbat

    July 16, 2023 at 10:11 am

    @Spanky: Thanks for that! Breathtaking!

  57. 57.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 10:11 am

    @oldgold:

    You would know better than I.

    But. I think Trump does this when he’s worried he’s going to lose:

    An Iowa state senator who’d previously endorsed Donald Trump is flipping his support toRon DeSantis just days after the former president attacked Iowa’s popular Republican governor, Kim Reynolds.
    Jeff Reichman, who is serving his first term in the state Senate, announced on Thursday that he is defecting to the Florida governor’s presidential campaign. In a statement, Reichman singled out praise for Reynolds, who Trump has targeted for her warmness toward DeSantis, his main rival for the GOP nomination.

    I think it’s preemptive- he’s setting up an excuse. Like how he set up that the 2020 election had been stolen 6 months before it took place. He’s terrified of losing so he has to do these elaborate work arounds to protect his fragility.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 10:13 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I love how the low quality DeSantis team think this “Iowa route” is so innovative. It’s what everyone in second place does! Is it a caucus? Maybe he can win a caucus. The Trumpsters are probably too chaotic for a caucus.

  59. 59.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 10:13 am

    Iowa Republicans are garbage people, pasty white, superannuated, and stupid,  and thus irrelevant to the nation other than in their ability to slurp up federal farm subsidies and position themselves arbitrarily early in our nation’s very stupid selection process for presidential candidates.

    Naturally they make an excellent constituency for any garbage candidate that can incite their baser tendencies and self-righteousness early on in the game.

  60. 60.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 10:15 am

    @Betsy: PS When I visited the rural Midwest I left with a mostly horrible impression: the bison and native nations had to die and/or be banished … for THIS?? the Mississippi is dead, the rolling prairies are gone, and the sparkling  Gulf of Mexico had to have a huge dead zone … for THIS??

  61. 61.

    The Dark Avenger, ,

    July 16, 2023 at 10:16 am

    Posted the following at Driftglass and was front-paged for my trouble.  Thanks, Mr. Drift!

     

    The Three Laws of David Brooks

     

    1. David Brooks must not injure conservatism, or thru inactions, allow conservatism to come to harm.

     

    2. David Brooks must obey his employers.

     

    3. David Brooks must protect his career, so long as such protection doesn’t conflict with the First or Second Law.

  62. 62.

    Spanky

    July 16, 2023 at 10:17 am

    @Betsy: To be fair, they do produce bacon!

    Eta: I spent a miserable year in Iowa in grad school. Not bacon related.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 10:18 am

    I’m pleased DeSantis is losing running against “woke” but I hope to see anti woke discredited completely as a tactic and grift and subject of elite editorials, because the anti woksters are all ninnies and they deserve to lose.

    But that doesn’t seem to be happening. The rest of them are running on anti woke too. So they still think this is a viable strategy, although it also failed in 2022. I wonder who is pushing it to them (other than Andrew Sullivan/Christopher Rufo/Bari Weiss/ NYTimes, et al). Maybe they have polling.

  64. 64.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 10:20 am

    @Spanky: I can’t eat their product of mass animal torture and industrial hogshit hell.

    Do enjoy bacon from a local producer from time to time.  She names all her animals, and doesn’t mind customers seeing the farm (an actual farm, with pigs rooting happily under scattered trees, not bathed in excrement and packed into crates with hundreds of thousands of other suffering pigs on a shit-encrusted factory floor in Iowa, tended by poor Central Americans who quickly develop lung disorders and permanent repetitive-motion injuries).

  65. 65.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 10:22 am

    @Kay: I guess they see some sort of payoff in this strategy (if you can call it that), but to me they sound like morons.   Especially DeSantis, since his entire communications repertoire is a noun, a verb, and ‘woke.’

  66. 66.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 10:23 am

    @Kay: The Republican base loves it. I think it’s as simple as that.

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 10:25 am

    @Spanky

    Does bacon from pot-bellied pigs get you high?
    //

  68. 68.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 10:26 am

    @Betsy: “ Iowa Republicans are garbage people …”

    Garbage people? I know them and they are not garbage people. In my view they are misinformed and hold political views that I strongly disagree with. But, to label them as garbage people is wrong.

    In fact, dismissively labeling people in this manner is part of the Democrats problem across the the formerly purple Hawkeye State.

  69. 69.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 10:27 am

    @Kay: Doesn’t “anti-woke” mean asleep? Are Republicans saying they’re the asleep party?

  70. 70.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @JPL:

    Bill is amazing, but there are photographers out there with far better and expensive equipment for night shots, along with access to amazing locations.

  71. 71.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 10:33 am

    @Yarrow:

    They’ve been yammering on about it longer now so more people may understand it, but I was amused at their Michigan anti woke campaign because it was so obscurely far Right wing- VERY online. They had signs opposing reproductive rights for women that were impossible for a normie to understand. It took me a couple times seeing one to get it.

    It was like “they’re FOR or AGAINST aborting..transgender  people?” I love when they climb up their own ass with this stuff- it becomes a secret code that only the followers can decipher.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:34 am

    @oldgold:

    Which Democratic candidate has insulted Iowa?

  73. 73.

    PAM Dirac

    July 16, 2023 at 10:36 am

    @Spanky:

    The dewpoint here in balmy Southern MD is currently 74. Lower than yesterday, so far.

    In Frederick MD the dewpoint got to 78.5 yesterday. Absolutely brutal. The good news is that seems to be the max for a while, the next 10 days the max dewpoint around 70 and even get below 60 next weekend.

  74. 74.

    MomSense

    July 16, 2023 at 10:37 am

    @Baud:

    Pants?

  75. 75.

    delphinium

    July 16, 2023 at 10:38 am

    @Cameron:

    Is there anything this man can’t do?

    1. Act like a decent/normal human being?

    2. Appeal to people in any large numbers outside of Florida?

  76. 76.

    Jackie

    July 16, 2023 at 10:39 am

    @Yarrow: It does! They willfully close their eyes and ears to anyone and anything they don’t want to see and hear.

  77. 77.

    PAM Dirac

    July 16, 2023 at 10:42 am

    @JPL:

    That tops Bill’s pictures and that means alot.

    The picture has a lot going for it, but I actually like Billin’s pictures a bit better. For me the person in the picture brings in some hints of “Look at me, me!”. Actual nature is cooler than humans or even what humans can imagine,.

  78. 78.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2023 at 10:42 am

    @MomSense

    That’s crazy talk.
    ;)

  79. 79.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 10:43 am

    @Kay: It does seem like a lot of Republicans have spent so much time in their bubble that they have trouble explaining themselves to normies. They say code words and look around thinking everyone will understand what they’re saying. That might work with their groups but outside in the real world it doesn’t.

  80. 80.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 10:44 am

    @PAM Dirac: and even get below 60 next weekend.

    Next wkend is a long ways away. At this time of year I always look at the projected temps with a hopeful eye and a cynics heart. If they call for 88 I know that when the day comes it will hit 94. But hope springs eternal.

  81. 81.

    feebog

    July 16, 2023 at 10:45 am

    So what happens when the next category 5 hurricane rips through Florida and thousands of home owners are out of luck because they couldn’t afford homeowners insurance?  Will DeSantis come to the Federal Government with his hand out looking for some “woke” socialism?

  82. 82.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 10:45 am

    @Jackie: Seems like an opening for some Democratic candidate or adjacent PAC to say something like, “Republicans keep saying they’re the anti-woke party. That means they’re asleep. Do you really want someone who’s asleep to be representing you?”

  83. 83.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 16, 2023 at 10:45 am

    @oldgold:

    dismissively labeling people in this manner is part of the Democrats problem across the the formerly purple Hawkeye State.

    Evidence for this claim? These folks don’t have agency? Sounds a lot like blame-shifting to me. (“Those mean libs made me turn Nazi!”)

    I hail from a RWNJ rural area, and they found their way to fascism all on their own.

  84. 84.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 16, 2023 at 10:47 am

    @Yarrow: Good to see you commenting. *Waves

  85. 85.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 10:48 am

    “Americans are rallying behind Ron DeSantis and his plan to reverse Joe Biden’s failures and restore sanity to our nation…”

    this quote made me blink.  the only failures of Biden would seem to be due to the supreme court’s rulings or blocking by idiot Republicans and the odious Manchin-Sinema tag team.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:48 am

    @Yarrow:

    Since few people understand the War against Woke, few will appreciate that response to the War against Woke. You’re still playing on their turf.

  87. 87.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2023 at 10:49 am

    @feebog:

    “July, bye and by.

    August, come they must.

    September, remember…”

  88. 88.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 10:49 am

    @Baud: Well, Biden moving the Iowa Democratic caucus is widely perceived as an insult. But, beyond that, the operations of the State Democratic Party have been insultingly incompetent. The last two campaigns against Reynolds were a damn joke.

    I am old enough to remember Obama carried Iowa in 2008 and 2012.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 10:49 am

    ‘It’s demoralizing’: Idaho abortion ban takes toll on medical providers

    State’s OB-GYN numbers are dwindling in the face of a legal onslaught amid fears that patients will be unable to access care

    A job well done Idaho GOP, congrats.

  90. 90.

    BellyCat

    July 16, 2023 at 10:50 am

    Bigot spigot

    LOL… Well done, BC.!

  91. 91.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 10:50 am

    Josh Marshall also analyzed the DeSantis fundraising situation:

    As we noted a few days ago, the “small donor” label can be misleading inasmuch as people imagine its a true mass base of support reaching down through the class spectrum. It’s really dominated by upper middle class and affluent givers tossing in tens or a hundred dollars at a time online. But the key is that a candidate can keep drawing money from those givers. That kind of giving, which really got underway about twenty years ago and now plays a dominant role in Democratic campaigns, opened up a whole new kind of political campaigning in which candidates could essentially live on the land. DeSantis seems to be focused on an older and somewhat more transactional style of funding focused on richer but still non-oligarch givers who can max out with a single check. Those contributions are great and all campaigns in both parties try to get them. But it’s one and done. You can’t go back to those people again.

    What it all amounts to is a campaign which is dying but at the highest levels, with enough juice to keep any other candidate from climbing out of single digits yet mortally wounded all the same.

    So, DeSantis is doing well enough to impede the progress of fellow not-Trumps but not well enough to beat Trump.

  92. 92.

    rikyrah

    July 16, 2023 at 10:50 am

    @Kay:

    The longer Dolt45 stays in this, the more DeSantis and his right-wing positions stick to him and he can’t pretend to pivot. Plus, it’s about to be hurricane season and the insurance ramifications as well as the lack of the Undocumented will become crystal clear.

  93. 93.

    PAM Dirac

    July 16, 2023 at 10:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Next wkend is a long ways away.

    Yes, but around here the temp predictions are usually pretty close. Of course that’s because the high temps never vary by much. It’s the rain predictions that are always worthless. Supposed to get 1.25 inches last night and got zero. I pay a lot of attention the the rain totals to decide when to spray my vineyard and it’s almost all react to what happened rather than worry about what is predicted.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:51 am

    @oldgold:

    Dems shouldn’t respect any state’s entitlement to a particular order.  If that’s what drives Iowa against us, we’ll have to live with it.  We shouldn’t be held hostage.

    As far as the state’s party’s incompetence goes, that’s true in a lot of states, unfortunately. But that has nothing to do with Betsy’s opinion.

  95. 95.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 10:52 am

    @Baud: Depends how it’s used. It could be made a punchline against Republicans, just like “noun, verb and 9/11” was used against Giuliani.

  96. 96.

    Freemark

    July 16, 2023 at 10:54 am

    @oldgold: They voted for Trump, so you’ll have to prove your statement. It’s like if your on a date; don’t judge them by how they treat you but how they treat others they aren’t trying to impress. And Iowa Republicans treat others like shit.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:54 am

    @Yarrow:

    Yeah, I can see that.  I just we don’t see a bunch of ads on it.

  98. 98.

    japa21

    July 16, 2023 at 10:55 am

    @Betsy:

     

    Iowa Republicans are … people, pasty white, superannuated, and stupid,

    You could have left out Iowa.

  99. 99.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    July 16, 2023 at 10:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    All along I’ve been wondering:

    1. How do you train – appropriately – obstetric residents in a ban state?

    2. What well-trained, experienced obstetrician is going to want to continue a practice in a ban state, where every fetal abnormality that results in expulsion or a nonviable birth is going to result in a criminal investigation and potential felony conviction?

  100. 100.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:56 am

    So I don’t pay much attention to Trump other than as a criminal defendant.  Has he incorporated the Woke into his campaign? The insults I’ve seen from him have been more traditional.

  101. 101.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 10:57 am

    @Baud: I’ve already seen one video compilation of DeSantis saying woke. It’s definitely a thing for him, so easy to use against him.

  102. 102.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 10:59 am

    @PAM Dirac: Supposed to get 1.25 inches last night and got zero.

    Heh, a couple weeks ago we had some storms move thru the area. We supposedly got 1.5-2″, but when I checked my rain gauge I poured out maybe 3 drops. The really funny thing was that places just a mile away showed obvious signs of having received a deluge.

    Strange weather.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 10:59 am

    @Yarrow:

    That video has no substance to it IIRC.  It’s making fun of him as a person.

  104. 104.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 11:01 am

    @Baud:  He’s used it but now says he doesn’t like it. This is from June.

    Former President Donald Trump told a crowd of supporters he doesn’t like the term “woke,” arguing that people using the term don’t know what it means.

    “I don’t like the term ‘woke’ because I hear ‘woke woke woke.’ It’s just a term they use, half the people can’t even define it, they don’t know what it is,” Trump said Thursday during remarks at the Westside Conservative Club in Urbandale, Iowa.

    It’s not the first time Trump has used the term “woke” as criticism. Trump during a town hall event on Fox News on Thursday addressed the armed forces, saying military members are “not learning to fight” and “want to go woke.” The former president on Sunday shared on Truth Social that “Disney has become a Woke and Disgusting shadow of its former self.”

  105. 105.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 11:02 am

    Politics is the art of persuasion. When you label everyone who voted for Trump as garbage people, your chances of persuading them about anything is exceedingly challenging.

  106. 106.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 11:03 am

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: ​ 1. How do you train – appropriately – obstetric residents in a ban state?

    In a different article I read recently they just flatly said, “You can’t.”

  107. 107.

    Ba

    July 16, 2023 at 11:04 am

    @Yarrow:

    I hate when he says something that makes sense.

  108. 108.

    Ba

    July 16, 2023 at 11:04 am

    @Yarrow:

    I hate when he says something that makes sense.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:04 am

    Ugh. Nym typo.

  110. 110.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @oldgold: If they only voted for trump in 2016, OK maybe not. If they voted for him in 2020 after 4 full years of his crap, they are garbage people.

  111. 111.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 11:07 am

    I start three weeks of tennis camps again tomorrow.  Temps are gonna be 95, 96, 97, 98, 98, 99, 100, 100…ugh…

  112. 112.

    Anoniminous

    July 16, 2023 at 11:08 am

    @Kay:

    “Woke” is the current propaganda tell-tale being used to whip-up ressentiment –  a sense of hostility directed toward an object that one identifies as the cause of one’s frustration, that is, an assignment of blame for one’s frustration – in white people.

  113. 113.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:09 am

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Sounds like Death Valley Tennis Camp wasn’t a good idea.

  114. 114.

    danielx

    July 16, 2023 at 11:10 am

    Ron DeSantis – I keep thinking of Molly Ivins discussing Bill Clements, a Texas gubernatorial candidate who she once described as a man born with a burr up his butt:
    “Among political consultants, when the candidate is a dog the preferred euphemism is, “We don’t want to overexpose the candidate.” Clements’ people are so determined not to overexpose him, they’d like to send him out of state till it’s over.”
    DeSantis seems to be one of those people you might mildly dislike until you get to know him better, then you move on to actively detesting him.​

  115. 115.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:11 am

    @danielx:

    He went to the Ted Cruz Charm School.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 11:14 am

    @rikyrah:

    The longer Dolt45 stays in this, the more DeSantis and his right-wing positions stick to him and he can’t pretend to pivot.

    Agree. I hope DeSantis wins Iowa. I want a dragged out primary for them. I want them even more resentful and bitter than they are now, if that is even possible.

  117. 117.

    danielx

    July 16, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @Baud: ​
     Al Franken: “I like Ted Cruz more than most of my other colleagues like Ted Cruz. And I hate Ted Cruz.”

  118. 118.

    Anoniminous

    July 16, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @Baud: ​
     
    Those temps are a nothing burger. Death Valley temperatures are predicted to be 123, 118, 117, 117, 118 ….. over the coming days.

  119. 119.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 11:17 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: They made a poor decision in voting for Trump.  But, to label all of them as garbage people is going way too far and very unhelpful.

    By nature I am very reluctant to label any human being as garbage. I believe everyone has value. And, to spray paint large swaths of people as garbage is something I absolutely reject.

  120. 120.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 11:18 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Thanks.

  121. 121.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 11:18 am

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: they’re leaving, and their would-be patients are coming to Washington state, and the state has budgeted for this. for some reason the destination of choice is Kennewick, the tri-cities area. I would have expected it to be Spokane from Coeur d’Alene, or Portland, Oregon if they’re coming from Boise,

  122. 122.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 16, 2023 at 11:18 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: Are you teaching tennis or taking tennis?

  123. 123.

    m.j.

    July 16, 2023 at 11:19 am

    Iowa is covered in smog. The air is terrible. I blame republicans.

    https://fire.airnow.gov/

  124. 124.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:22 am

    @oldgold:

    You don’t have to do anything.  Feel free to turn the other cheek all you want.  But other people will respond differently to what the Republicans are doing to innocent people and this country as a whole.

    I don’t expect any Dem candidate for office to act like regular folks in that regard, but I’m not telling the average Dem to be polite online to people who hate and oppress them.

  125. 125.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 16, 2023 at 11:23 am

    @oldgold: I live among them. I know of whom I speak.

  126. 126.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2023 at 11:23 am

    A “candidate-driven campaign”?

    As distinct from what – a campaign where the candidate is a puppet or a figurehead?

    Not that that would be atypical for Rethuglican politicians; they’ll just about all do what the moneymen ask. Just ask Harlan Crow’s personal valet, Clarence Thomas.

  127. 127.

    Chris T.

    July 16, 2023 at 11:24 am

    @Anoniminous: Yes, but it’s a dry hate.

  128. 128.

    Yarrow

    July 16, 2023 at 11:27 am

    @Chris T.:

    it’s a dry hate.

    Don’t know if that’s a typo but I love it.

  129. 129.

    JPL

    July 16, 2023 at 11:28 am

    @oldgold: Now you tell me.  🙃

  130. 130.

    Barry

    July 16, 2023 at 11:29 am

    @The Dark Avenger, ,: “David Brooks must protect his career, so long as such protection doesn’t conflict with the First or Second Law.”

    Redundant, after the Second Law 😎

  131. 131.

    Barry

    July 16, 2023 at 11:30 am

    @Kay: “I wonder who is pushing it to them (other than Andrew Sullivan/Christopher Rufo/Bari Weiss/ NYTimes, et al). Maybe they have polling.”

     

    Find out who writes their checks.

  132. 132.

    CaseyL

    July 16, 2023 at 11:30 am

    Anyone who still votes for the GOP is a garbage person.

    There is no reason to vote GOP other than garbage reasons.  None. Nada. Zip.

    None of this “I vote for the person, not the Party” bullshit, either.  Each person toes the GOP Party line (*cough* Nancy Mace *cough*): each GOP candidate will support fascism even if they personally “find it distasteful.”

  133. 133.

    Barry

    July 16, 2023 at 11:33 am

    @feebog: “So what happens when the next category 5 hurricane rips through Florida and thousands of home owners are out of luck because they couldn’t afford homeowners insurance?  Will DeSantis come to the Federal Government with his hand out looking for some “woke” socialism?”

    Or even many of them quickly collapsing into bankruptcy.

  134. 134.

    Suzanne

    July 16, 2023 at 11:35 am

    @CaseyL: Preach.

    If one doesn’t want to be called a garbage person, one always has the choice to not behave terribly.

  135. 135.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2023 at 11:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
     

    “Welcome to Idaho, the ‘Handmaid’s Tale’ state. Set your clocks back two centuries.”

    Heartbreaking, for all the women and girls who can’t pick up and leave.

  136. 136.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 11:36 am

    damned cats woke me up at 6am. My left arm is in a cast of sorts, after surgery for CMC arthroplasty on the 7th, and it’s harder than usual for me to sleep some nights. the cast comes off and stitches removed on Thursday.

    today mr opiejeanne comes home from a cousin’s funeral in Kansas. we each lost a cousin the week of the 7th, but mine was long expected. His was a shock, perfectly healthy 74yo, stepped backwards and fell off his boat, hit the cement dock on his back: traumatic brain injury, and death was nearly instantaneous. We are now losing our own generation, and it’s only been 9 years since we lost the last of our parents’ generation.  It’s all too soon.

    pardon my lack of capitalization in places.

  137. 137.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 11:37 am

    @Baud: well said.

  138. 138.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:37 am

    Also, didn’t that “natural constituency” in Iowa deliver a win for Ted Cruz in 2016? Also not a president!

    Thank heaven for small mercies.

  139. 139.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:38 am

    Funny Mastodon meme.

    https://mastodon.social/@scottjshapiro/110723851595818279

  140. 140.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 11:39 am

    @lowtechcyclist: i’m just waiting for the actual witch trials to begin there, although they won’t call it that

  141. 141.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:40 am

    @Baud: Im all for extending grace as far as it is constructive. Once you are sure someone is hateful or arguing in bad faith or just plain disregarding anything you have to say, time to take the rhetorical gloves off.

    Eta: Same if you’re just being selfish. I don’t care if you personally respectful toward people, if you’re willing to overlook the abuse of minority groups and women for a tax cut (for your boss), you might just be worse than any of them.

  142. 142.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:42 am

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    In a one-on-one context, agree.  When you’re talking to the ether online, it’s hard to do both in a single comment or post.

  143. 143.

    Steeplejack

    July 16, 2023 at 11:42 am

    @Spanky:

    Greetings, fellow dew point guy! DP currently 74° here in Arlington, VA. 😢 Actual humidity 90%, temp 77°.

  144. 144.

    Sure Lurkalot

    July 16, 2023 at 11:44 am

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:

    What well-trained, experienced obstetrician is going to want to continue a practice in a ban state, where every fetal abnormality that results in expulsion or a nonviable birth is going to result in a criminal investigation and potential felony conviction?

    Much less the knowledge that you sent away a patient that wasn’t “sick” enough for a procedure without which her prognosis steadily worsens until grave harm or death occurs. IANAD but I don’t think I would want to face that prospect of guilt by my own denial of care, whatever the reason for such denial.

  145. 145.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 11:44 am

    ‘

    @CaseyL: I Just can’ t label 74 million people as garbage people. And, will absolutely not allow all of my relatives, friends  and neighbors who voted for Trump to be labeled garbage people without registering my disagreement with such labeling.

  146. 146.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:45 am

    @Baud: That’s why I prefer Balloon-Juice to busier sites. We got time to tease things out, offer ample rope for one to hang oneself with.

  147. 147.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:47 am

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Yeah, I’ve recently ventured out of the boat and am trying out Mastodon. No posts yet, just reading other people.  I’m still getting used to the different framework for interacting with people.

  148. 148.

    Anoniminous

    July 16, 2023 at 11:48 am

    @Chris T.: ​
     

    Yes, but it’s a dry hate.

    Tempted to suggest adding to the rotating tag

  149. 149.

    Chris T.

    July 16, 2023 at 11:48 am

    @Yarrow: Intentional, useful for all kinds of situations in Arizona and similar environs.

  150. 150.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:48 am

    @Anoniminous:

    I will second.

  151. 151.

    Mike in NC

    July 16, 2023 at 11:49 am

    Last night we called our friends who just moved into a new home in the mountains near Asheville, NC. They fled Floriduh in the nick of time, before Governor Woke tried to turn the state into his personal version of North Korea. I told them to Google “DeSantis Go-Go Boots” to get a big laugh about that sad sack of shit.

  152. 152.

    cope

    July 16, 2023 at 11:50 am

    @PAM Dirac: I agree. Bill’s images are much more approachable. This APOD is actually a composite of multiple shots taken at different times and then highly digitally manipulated. Not that it’s not a compelling image but…

    When you look up at the night sky, your eyes only see a small (5%?) percentage of the total electromagnetic radiation being emitted. We can’t see ultraviolet or radio or X-ray or most of the varieties of “light” the universe produces. Magnificent instruments like HST and JWST detect these other frequencies we cannot and cleaver people represent their data as visible images for our eyes.

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 16, 2023 at 11:52 am

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: We can’t judge what is in a person’s heart.  We can’t see it.  We, however, can judge their behavior.  Voting is behavior we can see. If you vote for Trump or other far right people, you may not agree with their worst ideas, but you certainly are showing that you are willing to tolerate them.  If you think that tax cuts are worth tolerating, for example, homophobia, then I  comfortable making certain judgments about you.

  154. 154.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:52 am

    @Baud: Ive been considering Mastodon. I’ve also dabbled with Spoutible.

    I find myself setting goals for how deeply I want to engage, though, and always wind up too busy, so I stick with the familiar.

  155. 155.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:53 am

    @oldgold:

    Hopefully, you can also get all of your relatives, friends  and neighbors who voted for Trump to be revulsed  by how top leaders in the Republican party talk about Democrats and liberals.

    If you can do that, you’ll have done some good work.

  156. 156.

    frosty

    July 16, 2023 at 11:53 am

    @Baud: ​You’ve solved Step #1, though: How to move people with your campaign!​
    ​
    ​

  157. 157.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2023 at 11:54 am

    @oldgold: Fine, we get it. You think there are very fine people on both sides. Others disagree.

  158. 158.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 16, 2023 at 11:55 am

    “Americans are rallying behind Ron DeSantis and his plan to reverse Joe Biden’s failures and restore sanity to our nation, and his momentum will only continue as voters see more of him in person, especially in Iowa,”

    Whatever Romeo is smoking, it’s very strong stuff from another universe.

  159. 159.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:57 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: If you vote for Trump or other far right people, you may not agree with their worst ideas, but you certainly are showing that you are willing to tolerate them.

    Sums it up.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 11:57 am

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I like the BJ format, including the single thread.  It suits me.

  161. 161.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    July 16, 2023 at 11:57 am

    My mild-mannered, sweet, kind, liberal oldest daughter has moved to Fort Lauderdale with her guy in furtherance of his career. I don’t know that she’s capable of having children (so she won’t run afoul of Florida law on that), but I worry greatly about the inevitable coming hurricane or the likelihood that she’ll get roughed up in some protest.

  162. 162.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    July 16, 2023 at 11:58 am

    @Kay:

    I wonder who is pushing it to them (other than Andrew Sullivan/Christopher Rufo/Bari Weiss/ NYTimes, et al). Maybe they have polling.

    Running anti-woke campaigns work because of the backlash from BLM and trans-rights. Basically, to these people, BLM means black hoards running wild in the streets looting and eyeing their homes and daughters for criming, while liberals hold the police back from protecting them. Trans-rights means a further erosion of gender norms, such that their sons may be made less manly and their daughters may abandon their God-given obligation to submit to men and have lots of babies. Plus, if a manly right wing man hits on a hot woman, she may actually be trans and that causes a gay panic. You and I know these views are ridiculous, but they feel it in their bones to be true.

  163. 163.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 11:59 am

    @Baud: Why can’t we be as calm and considered when we try to assert our rights as they are about trying to deny us our rights? The persecution is our own fault, really…

  164. 164.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 16, 2023 at 11:59 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Concur.  No quarter for them.  If they vote for him in 2024, they’re accomplices to treason.

  165. 165.

    frosty

    July 16, 2023 at 11:59 am

    @Spanky: ​
     That’s useful advice! Dew point here on the Mason-Dixon Line right now is 71, so borderline OK. We’ve turned off the window A/Cs and opened doors and windows so it tracks. I’ll have to keep an eye on it to see if the DP matches our behavior.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:

    It’ll be good to have one more blue voter in FL. Don’t over worry.  There’s risk everywhere.

  167. 167.

    japa21

    July 16, 2023 at 12:01 pm

    @Miss Bianca: ​
      He’s not saying that, but to label every person on the other side as garbage is going a step too far. For those of us who pay daily attention to what is going on, it might seem hard to believe that there are people out there who don’t really realize the extent of racism and homophobia, etc that exists in the Republican Party. And in almost every way they really are nice people.

  168. 168.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @Baud: I arrived here preferring a more structured, nested response approach. I spent a couple years lurking mainly because I found this approach confusing.

    Just a small learning curve. And there’s a lot to be said for BJ’s method too. Like I like that it’s purely chronological.

  169. 169.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    The single thread doesn’t allow for as many commenters, but to me it makes the experience feel more like a social gathering.

  170. 170.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    July 16, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I don’t care if you personally respectful toward people, if you’re willing to overlook the abuse of minority groups and women for a tax cut (for your boss), you might just be worse than any of them.

    My relatives are like that. Their strategy is to deny how much abuse there really is. They think its all just politics, we aren’t really being harmed, and the bigoted politicians don’t really mean what they are saying loudly and repeatedly. We are sooo exaggerating the threat.

  171. 171.

    oldgol

    July 16, 2023 at 12:06 pm

    @Miss Bianca: No, I think labeling everyone who voted for Trump as a garbage person is wrong. Period – nothing more and nothing less.

  172. 172.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 12:06 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: “Ron DeSantis is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more.”

  173. 173.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 12:09 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    work because of the backlash from BLM and trans-rights

    I would add backlash to womens rights/me too, but I agree w/your two and get that. What I’m asking is why they are sticking with it/doubling down given that it wasn’t powerful in 2020 and isn’t working for DeSantis. I know why they WOULD do it. I don’t know why they continue to focus on it when it doesn’t seem productive to them politically.
    I also have to say they are REALLY hitting immigrants now. I’ve spent some time in hotels the past weeks and I watch them on CSPAN. Nikki Haley, in particular, is going after immigrants so I expect that will heat up if “woke” starts to fizzle.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:10 pm

    @japa21:

    Nice people don’t tolerate Democrats and liberals regularly being accused by top GOP leaders of being child molesters and groomers.

  175. 175.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    July 16, 2023 at 12:10 pm

    @Baud:

    Oh, it’s two definite blue voters.

    This was simply a positive move for him and helps his resume, so I’m good on that and do like him, but as a dad still (she just turned 33), I worry.

  176. 176.

    sdhays

    July 16, 2023 at 12:12 pm

    @Amir Khalid: They’re not “rallying” behind him. They’re trying to get away from that mouth that seems to want to swallow them whole.

  177. 177.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 16, 2023 at 12:14 pm

    @japa21: But if the only thing I know about someone is that they voted for Trump, I feel that is a significant datapoint. There may be more to that person than that the one or two votes, but I am not going to be particularly interested in finding out.  Not everyone is suited to outreach to disaffected Trump voters.  I am not, and I am fine with that.

  178. 178.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 12:14 pm

    I do think less of my fellow Ohians now that the state has gone so far Right. It makes me sad that they embraced Trumpism to the extent that they did and they seem to have decided that they prefer to become West Virginia or Kentucky. I think that’s really tragic.

    You think you know people, right? I’m disappointed.

    But I don’t hate them. I am getting away from here, though. I just don’t want to live in a far Right state and I am lucky enough that I don’t have to. I don’t think I signed up for this.

  179. 179.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @Kay:

    IMHO, we should try to resist actual hate, because that hurts us more than them. Expressions of anger are ok though, within reason.

  180. 180.

    Citizen Alan

    July 16, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @oldgold:  They are no more “misinformed” than any random bigot from Mississippi.  What you call “misinformed” I would describe as a carefully cultivated willful ignorance, the result of their constant search for people who will lie to them in ways that comport with their prejudices and desire for victim status.

  181. 181.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Also, Transgender girls might get to share the experience of playing sports with other girls and heaven forbid, maybe even get to feel the joy of winning every so often, and we simply can’t allow that!  That actually seems to be the BS Transphobic concern I see most often from MAGAts nowadays.

  182. 182.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    @Baud: Never thought of it that way, but I can appreciate now that you’ve pointed it out.

  183. 183.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2023 at 12:19 pm

    @japa21: Personally, I think Kay’s right on with this one: anyone who could vote for Donald Trump reveals their character. Or lack of character, rather. And anyone who “doesn’t see” the Republican Party’s racism and homophobia is either actually cool with it or just doesn’t want to see it.

    Doesn’t matter if they’re “nice”. Here in Redneckistan I’m surrounded by “nice” Republicans who love guns more than people, drove COVID levels through the roof because “freedom”, justify their gun nuttery on the grounds that dusky hordes are just panting to come from the big city to raid their chicken coops, and openly want to suppress the votes of folks in Boulder and Denver. Yep, just the common clay of the New West.

  184. 184.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 12:19 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: We are sooo exaggerating the threat.

    Yes, like how we were exaggerating the notion they wanted to overturn Roe and, now that they have, it’s still an exaggeration.

  185. 185.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 12:22 pm

    @Baud:

    Part of what I miss with the takeover of the GOP by the wingnut faction is sort of friendly sparring with Republicans. Lawyers, mostly. Lawyers are word people, a lot of them are funny and It was fun. I’m very comfortable in the “minority position” role so although 90% of them are Republicans I didn’t feel ganged up on.

    You can’t do it anymore. They get ENRAGED. I avoid it all now other than actual, specific activism among the members of my tribe. I just don’t want that coming at me. I think they’re unhinged and “crazy” makes me nervous.

  186. 186.

    smith

    July 16, 2023 at 12:22 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Amazing, isn’t it, in light of their frequent notable lack of support for Title IX?

  187. 187.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:23 pm

    Donald Trump kidnapped children.

  188. 188.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @Kay: I’m guessing they stick with it because: 1.) they believe it and agree with it (they really do hate the idea of freedom/equality for Black People, Women and LGBTQ People) and 2.) it is productive when it comes to animating the base 27% of voters that they need to get through any GOP primary.  MAGA chuds have taken the GOP hostage, and the only thing that appeals to them is cruelty to marginalized groups.

  189. 189.

    Jinchi

    July 16, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    it’s a real surprise that Nikki Haley’s strategy of campaigning as an anti-woke anti-abortion minority woman isn’t working out for her.

    Oh well, I guess we can still see how Tim Scott’s “there are no racists in the Republican party” gambit will play out.

  190. 190.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    July 16, 2023 at 12:26 pm

    @Kay:

    I would add backlash to womens rights/me too

    Oh absolutely! The issue of gender roles and how much men should be allowed to own women is part of the backlash to trans-rights, but it, by itself, would still be a big issue if trans-rights weren’t in the public eye.

    Immigration has always been a big winner for the right and a divisive issue on our side. As rural areas and suburbs have become a little more diverse, the backlash has been huge. They cannot handle even mild cultural change. It scares them. On our side, it is divisive because you have humanitarians who want almost no restrictions on the number of migrants coming in and who oppose most every barrier to immigration, and you have the fact that most Democrats want some restrictions and don’t believe we can successfully absorb millions of people from all over the world (but mostly South America) every few years.

  191. 191.

    japa21

    July 16, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, I agree on the outreach part.

  192. 192.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    July 16, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yes, they actually think like that. Its crazy!

  193. 193.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 16, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @Citizen Alan: This, right here.

  194. 194.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Yup.  And I would say that it’s perfectly fine to hate them for it.  I suppose we can make ourselves feel better by making a “love the sinner, hate the sin” distinction, but I’m not really sure how that even works when a persons’ whole identity is built around unabashed pride and flaunting of their many sins (Racism, Misogyny, LGBTQphobia etc.)

  195. 195.

    Citizen Alan

    July 16, 2023 at 12:31 pm

    @Anoniminous: Well, yeah. I mean, isn’t that why it has “Death” as part of the name of the place?

  196. 196.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 16, 2023 at 12:32 pm

    @Baud: But they were brown children, and brown children don’t count.

  197. 197.

    Citizen Alan

    July 16, 2023 at 12:32 pm

    @oldgold: You mean like how nearly every one of those people you are defending would call you a Marxist groomer just for being a Democrat?

  198. 198.

    frosty

    July 16, 2023 at 12:38 pm

    @Spanky: ​

    @Steeplejack: ​
     Greetings from this recent (this morning) Dew Point convert! Looking at both your stats, I see that there’s a benefit to living in the Piedmont instead of the Coastal Plain. When you’re heading north out of Baltimore and cross into what they call the Hereford Zone, the temps drop five degrees. Which is why we needed the A/C a lot more when we lived in Baltimore.

  199. 199.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2023 at 12:40 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: The weird thing is that I don’t actually *hate* most of the ones I have to live around. (A few I do – the ones whose right-wing activism is causing active damage to the community.) They are my neighbors, some of them are…not my friends, exactly, but not my enemies either. It’s complicated. It’s a small town/county, and we all have to depend on each other to a certain extent.

    But I can’t respect them, and that’s a fact.

  200. 200.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 12:41 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: The group includes too many people too close to me to outright hate them. But I make no bones about telling them how I feel about their politics and, for the ones completely incapable of constructive conversation, refuse to engage them on politics.

  201. 201.

    Central Planning

    July 16, 2023 at 12:42 pm

    @Baud:

    Still trying to figure out how to drive people to me rather than away from me.

    One word: Pants.

  202. 202.

    Jinchi

    July 16, 2023 at 12:42 pm

    @Kay: I think they’re unhinged and “crazy” makes me nervous.

    Yeah. It became impossible to believe they were just joking around, once they started making heros of men like George Zimmerman, Kyle Rittenhouse and Derek Chauvin.

  203. 203.

    brantl

    July 16, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    @oldgold:  To be fair, they might make good compost. ///

  204. 204.

    Baud

    July 16, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    Trump yesterday

    Millions of illegal aliens have stormed across our borders, it is an invasion, like a military invasion. Our rights and liberties are being torn to shreds,” he said. “Your country is being turned into a third-world hellhole, run by censors, perverts criminals and thugs.”

    That’s us. We’re the perverts, criminals, and thugs.

  205. 205.

    sdhays

    July 16, 2023 at 12:46 pm

    @feebog: So what happens when the next category 5 hurricane rips through Florida and thousands of home owners are out of luck because they couldn’t afford homeowners insurance?  Will DeSantis come to the Federal Government with his hand out looking for some “woke” socialism?

    The articulated plan is that “hopefully, that won’t happen”.

  206. 206.

    kalakal

    July 16, 2023 at 12:47 pm

    @Baud:

    Buy a social media site. Oh, wait…

  207. 207.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 12:48 pm

    @Baud: Can’t I just be one or two of those things?  I’m an Old and don’t have the energy to do all that shit at once.

  208. 208.

    clay

    July 16, 2023 at 12:48 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Don’t forget: trans-rights means that someone who is “really a man” can go into a ladies restroom and… um…. well… the next part is never really made clear, is it?

    I guess she can listen to other girls pee?  Seems sinister!

  209. 209.

    Jackie

    July 16, 2023 at 12:49 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Excellent observation.

  210. 210.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2023 at 12:49 pm

    @sdhays: What is it that our very own Florida Man (not that kind!) Adam Silverman always says?

    Oh, yeah…”Hope is not a strategy.” :)

  211. 211.

    kalakal

    July 16, 2023 at 12:49 pm

    @sdhays:

    He’ll do what he did last year with Ian.

    Take the money with both hands.

    And wow the world with his new boots

  212. 212.

    brantl

    July 16, 2023 at 12:51 pm

    @Baud: Kari Lake’s Arizona: It’s a dry hate.

  213. 213.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 12:53 pm

    @Jinchi:

    I generally like to be happy too, so even if they’re not threatening me with an AR 15 I no longer interact politically with them because I don’t want red faced, enraged men screaming at me.

    I’ll tell you what Ohio is like now. I had a client for about two years, complicated issues, we got along great. I sensed she was a Righty because I’m really tuned into them as a “political minority” here but she never was overt or hateful. Then one day I walked her out to her car, well, truck, and she had “Fuck Biden” in white paint on the back cab window. I was shocked. She’s this solid citizen and she’s 75 years old. Enraged. All the time. Neither one of us said anything, but I know she knew I was shocked.

  214. 214.

    Subsole

    July 16, 2023 at 12:53 pm

     

    @Miss Bianca: Definitely this.

    It’s kind of funny. One of the things about being a white liberal in a very red part of a red state was that I was surrounded by people who had absolutely no clue that they were saying it to my face.

    Really drives home just how much of it is keyed off race and gender.

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    July 16, 2023 at 12:53 pm

    @Kay:  I am so glad you are escaping to Michigan.  Michigan’s gain, and Ohio’s loss.

  216. 216.

    Subsole

    July 16, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    @Central Planning:

    Compromise proposal: shorts.

  217. 217.

    brantl

    July 16, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: They were accomplices in 2020.

  218. 218.

    Subsole

    July 16, 2023 at 12:55 pm

    @Baud:

    Republicans: when you need projection guaranteed to make a skunk’s eyes water at 150 meters.

  219. 219.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 12:56 pm

    @brantl: Eventually we all will.

  220. 220.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 16, 2023 at 12:57 pm

    @Baud: Accusation is always confession for the PAB.

  221. 221.

    Subsole

    July 16, 2023 at 12:58 pm

    @oldgold:

    Sadly, I am far too salty to make decent compost.

  222. 222.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 1:00 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I hate their values, decisions they make and the things they to harm the people I love.  I can be cordial to them when needed and I don’t lump them all together (open Nazis are obviously worse than normie Republicans) but I can also silently hate them all to different degrees and I won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.  I suppose I can love the better-version of themselves that is still a possibility in the future, but until they actually take steps to become that person, I’m going to remember that it’s not who they are, it’s who they actively refuse to be.  I don’t know if “hate” is the right word for how I feel, but I’m ok with it if it is.

  223. 223.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 1:00 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I DID feel like I was a plus for the town- in the same way a lot of other people are, but still. I just don’t want to give them anything anymore- contribute- time, energy, money, good will, volunteer work, tax revenue, as an employer. I have no political representation at all anymore, state level. They’ve gerrymandered it up so tight it’s as if the state is 100% far Right voters.

    Issue One will be my last hurrah as the opposition. I’m cautiously optimistic so it’s a good way to go out.

  224. 224.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 1:00 pm

    @brantl: Kari Lake’s Arizona: It’s a dry hate

    👏…👏…👏

  225. 225.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 1:01 pm

    @Subsole: !

  226. 226.

    The Thin Black Duke

    July 16, 2023 at 1:05 pm

    Black people don’t have the privilege to be gracious towards the white bigots who want to kill them.

  227. 227.

    Ksmiami

    July 16, 2023 at 1:09 pm

     

    @oldgold: when people decide to punch down on the most vulnerable, to treat the very science that allows civilized society to be mocked and threatened and to side with Putin’s Russian terrorist state over their Democratic neighbors, yes they are garbage and need to be mocked, defeated and driven out of polite society.

  228. 228.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2023 at 1:11 pm

    @Subsole: For example: later today I am going to a “Vote NO on the Recall!” rally for one of our GOP county commissioners. He’s not a guy I would have voted for if we Democrats could field a candidate here, but he’s the best of a bad bunch and I *did* vote for him.

    A bunch of reactionary soreheads associated with a local right-wing hate rag “newspaper”, who can’t stop themselves from trying to recall *any* Republican in local government who forgets themselves so far as to actually try to *govern*, has it in for him because he won’t toe their line. Sadly, one of the other GOP county commissioners is neck-deep in this crowd and they act as his flying monkey brigade.

    So, there you go…he’s a Republican, he can be a bit obtuse, but he’s waking up to the fact that it’s liberals and independents who have his back in this fight, as much as if not more than the Republicans. (Some of whom are sick of this radical hyper-partisanship, but not enough, not yet.) And yeah…I’m supporting him because he *is* a decent guy and the grounds for trying to recall him are utter BS.

    So there ya go. It’s complicated out here, being a liberal in ruby-red Ruritania.

  229. 229.

    Jackie

    July 16, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    @sdhays: You left out “knock on wood.”

  230. 230.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    @Baud:

    Better than when they both are…..

  231. 231.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    Not long after my husband and I moved here to our rural location nearly five years ago, a couple from Ohio moved about a quarter mile up the road from us. My husband saw them moving something heavy when passing by and stopped to help.

    He is far nicer and more social than I am and gets along with everyone. (Thank God! Someone has to!) The couple invited us to come by for drinks, but I begged off and my husband went by himself. He said it was a perfectly friendly conversation, but he got the impression they were right wingers, and we’ve had no contact with them aside from waving hello when passing by in vehicles.

    A few weeks ago, I noticed they were flying a Confederate flag on their barn, which is weird since they are from OHIO. Then yesterday, I noticed a giant “Trump 2024 — Fuck Your Feelings” flag over their front door. Ohio is not sending its best! ;-)

    All that said, half my relatives voted for Trump and DeSantis twice, including my father. I hate my relatives’ politics. My kid is queer, so I understand exactly how harmful the policies they’re enabling are. I don’t respect their views nor do I consider our political differences mere matters of opinion — I feel towards that part of their life as I might if they were selling drugs or knocking over 7-11s in their spare time.

    As I said, I fucking HATE their politics! But they are my family, and I still love them. I’ve run into a few people (all online) who think that makes me a bad liberal. Well, fuck them too.

  232. 232.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 1:17 pm

    @Cameron:

    Is there anything this man can’t do?

    Figure out how to be an actual fucking human being…

  233. 233.

    oldgold

    July 16, 2023 at 1:20 pm

     

    @Ksmiami: You are giving up on all of them. I will not. If we could persuade just 1% of them, not to convert, but just to abstain from voting in ‘24 for Trump, in WI, PA , GA and AZ it could make the difference.

    You get no where insulting people and writing them off as garbage.

  234. 234.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 1:24 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    It reveals them as nonessential shit stains.

    FIFY.

    I mean I know that technically he’s human but let’s be real, he does keep attempting to discard the human skin surrounding the horse crap said being is made out of.

  235. 235.

    Elizabelle

    July 16, 2023 at 1:29 pm

    @oldgold:  Oh stop lecturing us.

    Do you not twig that how one behaves in private life, and what one says on a blog, can be different?

    Stop being so tiresome.

  236. 236.

    Cameron

    July 16, 2023 at 1:30 pm

    @kalakal: But at least I don’t think he had pudding on his hands during his photo op. Although I’m one of those hey-the-pudding-cup-is-half-full optimist types.  Sometimes.

  237. 237.

    UncleEbeneezer

    July 16, 2023 at 1:38 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke: This part, too.

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 1:38 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    They are forming a cult.

    It doesn’t take brains or skills or luck, it takes a path that the followers will take behind them. That’s what “woke” is, a cult. People will join a cult that has no understandable concept because it doesn’t. But it needs something, and “woke” is that thing. It works better when it doesn’t make any sense because if it did, it could be explained as an ignorant cult. But that is all it is, a cult – with little ronnie as it’s leader. Because what else could he do? Be an actual leader? Don’t make me snort my drink out my nose.

  239. 239.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 1:38 pm

    @oldgold: Look, I’m with you in the broadest sense, but I need to make something clear.

    Respect must be reciprocal. Treating someone with respect who actively, openly disrespects you or your loved ones is foolishness, possibly even dangerous.

    Eta: Respect without reciprocity is deference, completely unearned deference.

  240. 240.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 1:39 pm

    @oldgold: I used to feel that way.  Not any more.  Some people are, actually, worthless.

  241. 241.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 1:40 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Ohio is not sending its best! ;-)

    The confederate flag just kills me. We have a memorial to Union soldiers on the courthouse lawn. WTF?

  242. 242.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    July 16, 2023 at 1:40 pm

    Here on BJ we are a self-selected group of political junkies. [I count myself as a jackal these days, I trust this will not be received as an insult, just a short hand description.] Most people, I think, do not give as much attention as we do here to politics.

    Certainly there has been a rise in the level of hate and anger displayed in public lately. In a way Donald Trump has given susceptible people permission to let their freak flag fly and that is the result.

    What shocked me is that there is such a large reservoir of hate that Trump tapped. So many people are so angry. Some of it is the result of advertising (brainwashing if you prefer) by Fox, etc. But there is much more than I imagined even without that. This has opened my eyes.

  243. 243.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 1:44 pm

    @Betsy:

    One of my sisters does this thing where I’m the candidate, but I tell the truth. So my stump speech in this Right wing area is like “farmers are deadbeats” “you know what? I hate both guns AND hunters!” “I haven’t been to church in decades and I’m not going back – you should consider skipping too, really”

    She thinks this would be amusing. I would be dead, but she would be amused.

  244. 244.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 16, 2023 at 1:45 pm

    @oldgold: If you believe that you can reach out to them, that’s great.  Not everyone is temperamentally suited to do so and others are being directly harmed by GOP policies to the extent that their lives are endangered.  I don’t think that it is at all reasonable to expect that those people or those close to them share your “generosity” of spirit.  Nor do I think is is a good idea to criticize them for it.

  245. 245.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2023 at 1:50 pm

    @Kay: Hilarious! It would make a great “Bulworth” reboot! Kay just telling it like it is! (Protected by an impenetrable security force!)

  246. 246.

    Elizabelle

    July 16, 2023 at 1:52 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:   Assuming that anxiety underlies the “hate?”

    And, people who need to see things in black and white, no shades of gray:  are in for a rough ride.

  247. 247.

    artem1s

    July 16, 2023 at 1:54 pm

    Politico described the overall fundraising report as “a little underwhelming.”

    only if you compare it to post Citizen’s United campaigning. The MSM only cares about the ad buys. That’s why they are so desperate for a horse race.

  248. 248.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    July 16, 2023 at 1:58 pm

    @Elizabelle: I’m not sure what you mean.  People are individuals and I can’t surmise what underlies “hate” in any given case.

    That there is a large reservoir of hate I think is clear.

  249. 249.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 2:03 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    A very long time ago, 1969, we received a 40+ day deluge here in SoCal. The LA river was almost overflowing. Bridges wiped out. The flood channel to the Santa Fe Dam was full and it’s around 1/4 mile wide and 25 feet deep. That isn’t the record year though, but it was a lot in a rather short time. 50-60 inches fell in the mountains 5 miles from my home.

  250. 250.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 16, 2023 at 2:06 pm

    @Baud:

    but I’m not telling the average Dem to be polite online to people who hate and oppress them.

     

    Or genocide them. Republican influencers  have started calling for a total ban on trans healthcare, including hormones, for trans adults.

    I don’t need to be nice with people who want me dead.

  251. 251.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 16, 2023 at 2:14 pm

    Also too, being nice to Republicans assumes there are members of the cult who will turn if we’re not mean to them assumes facts not in evidence, on multiple levels.

    Even “moderate” Republicans who find saying the quiet part outs loud to be gauche have demonstrated they’re at the very least not troubled by what the cultists are baying for.

  252. 252.

    Central Planning

    July 16, 2023 at 2:26 pm

    @Subsole: We all know Baud won’t go for pants. Or shorts.

  253. 253.

    opiejeanne

    July 16, 2023 at 2:28 pm

    @Ruckus: Winter of 1969. i was at Cal Poly Pomona, freshman year and there was a mudslide behind one of the two new dorms. it stopped short of coming through the back door. A whole block of Rainbow Drive in… Glendora? was obliterated by a massive mudslide and people died. Foothill Blvd was a river,  I ran out of dry socks, and a dry creek behind the new Commons building turned into a lake. In the middle of the night, some smarty painted a very convincing crack on the foundation at the  front of the building, just above the huge culvert meant to drain the “surprise lake” at the back.

  254. 254.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 2:36 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: Also too, being nice to Republicans assumes there are members of the cult who will turn if we’re not mean to them assumes facts not in evidence, on multiple levels.

    This; so, so much. Again, I recommend taking a little time to be sure.  But these admonitions tonjust be polite aren’t being made by them in good faith.

    Respectability politics is a trap. “Ooooooohhhh, I’d stop fighting for your legal oppression if you’d just be a little calmer.”

    Bullshit.

  255. 255.

    Yutsano

    July 16, 2023 at 2:43 pm

    @Juju: ​

    @opiejeanne: ​Kennewick is a 4 hour drive from Boise. And Boise is very close to the Oregon border so getting across the state line is pretty quick. And Oregon passed a no return law. So that makes sense.

  256. 256.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 2:44 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Sorry about your cousin in law. And your cousin.

    For me I’m not sure if sudden passing or long term illness is worse. Shock or expectation. I think shock.

    I’m 74 and I’m now the last in my immediate family and oldest of my generation in the family line. The oldest of the generation before  went 11 yrs ago, she was oldest of her generation, out living her generation and the generation before her, she was 94 and 364 days and had even outlived one of her children who was 65 when she passed 4 years earlier.

  257. 257.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 2:52 pm

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I have twitter, mastodon, spoutible accounts and have found since the elon twitter checkbook invasion that I spend almost zero time on any of them. Which is different because I was spending large amounts of time on twitter, and now I can waste it in even less productive ways…..

  258. 258.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 16, 2023 at 3:00 pm

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Respectability politics and tone policing typically serve the oppressors. And fine people do not tolerate–much less vote for–fascists. There’s a reason why people speak of the “good Germans” with contempt.

    ETA: Just to be clear, I’m agreeing with you. :)

    ETAx2: I get the challenge with family members who are Trumpies. F2F interactions are not the same thing as anonymous blog comments. Each of us has to chart their own path in how to handle that difficult situation. But none of us is responsible for them becoming Trumpies, just because someone somewhere said something mean true about RWNJs.

  259. 259.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 3:03 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    She’s my campaign manager on this Straight Talk Express fantasy campaign and when we lose she blames me publicly – “she’s so mean! Completely unlikeable”.

    This came about because of the difference between how I talk publicly about and to Republicans and how I talk about them with her.

  260. 260.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 3:06 pm

    @Kay:

    I think the far right has either run out or almost run out it’s time in the sun, and this is what they consider to be a last chance to remain at all in the spotlight. Of course they aren’t going to give up because they are all in and cannot understand why everyone is not on their side. They are haters as their first and only line of argument and they are the intended or unintended leaders of the republican party because they are the loudest and the democratic party is vastly less hateful. Conservatives have not lost as much power as they should have because hate is a damn strong pull for many people, especially if blame can be placed upon everyone else for whatever it is that they hate. Hate is rarely rational as a political tool but it is a powerful one.

  261. 261.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 3:13 pm

    @Kay:

    I understand. I lived/worked in OH for 11 yrs. It seemed to me to be 2 distinct places. Those looking forwards and those squinting backwards. The squinters seemed to outnumber the lookers or at least seemed to have more power. I’m pretty sure the squinters owned more land.

  262. 262.

    Subsole

    July 16, 2023 at 3:13 pm

    @Ruckus:

    40 days? Jesus.

    That is actually Biblical in proportion…

     

    @Central Planning: Hm.

    Skirt? Breathable mesh loincloth?

  263. 263.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 16, 2023 at 3:15 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I agree with a lot of your comment, but I’m not too sanguine about the right-wing running its course in the near-term, especially if they can seize power illegitimately. The Nazi fever didn’t blow over until Germany and much of Europe lay in smoldering ruins. I don’t think the fash victory is inevitable here, but I also don’t believe we’re out of danger yet. It will be an ongoing struggle for a while.

  264. 264.

    J R in WV

    July 16, 2023 at 3:18 pm

    @Baud:

    Watching Bill gradually improve his hardware and tune his skills has been a great experience for me,  as a life-long photographer.  He has done so much great work and should be really proud of his work —  I’m glad it is captured here on Balloon-Juice!

    That said, the APOD from the Alps is a peak experience for the photographers!

  265. 265.

    Joe Falco

    July 16, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    has a more natural constituency in Iowa than other challengers.

    I was unaware Iowa had so many swamp creatures living there

  266. 266.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    July 16, 2023 at 3:28 pm

    @Joe Falco: I was unaware Iowa had so many swamp creatures living there

    Flatlands.

    Children of the Corn.

  267. 267.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 3:36 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I think I resent that they thought that Shit For Brains would make a good president. Or even a decent actual human being.

    I see both sides of the argument that we are engaged in here, now. We can’t make things better if all we do is create actual enemies. But at the same time the political opposition has seemingly gone all in to the very dark side. The current political “leaders,” SFB and FL guppy are trying to sell their individual versions of the far right. And if they win we will all be far worse off. SFB was the worst president of my 74 yrs and that is saying a hell of a lot. I can imagine that many republicans will vote party, even as that party sinks lower and lower into the cesspool that is current republican party politics. I can see that many in this country see party over politics and hate. And many do not understand that in the least.

    I also see that I really don’t understand that some cannot see that not everyone is going to go all in, in either direction. The middle is a big segment, many do not see politics as a life and death situation, even as it is for a large segment of our population. And many know that you don’t get political opposition to change course by attacking them.

  268. 268.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 3:41 pm

    @Kay: That’s entertaining!  Sounds like a fun way to blow off steam with your sister.

    As you can tell, I’m crawling out of decades of well-intended denial and covering up for bad eggs.

    I’m not yet in favor of executing them, but I wish we could put them off onto their own planet instead of sharing.

  269. 269.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 3:49 pm

    @Ruckus: The reason they haven’t aged out of existence like we all expected back in the days of the rise of the “Tea Party” isn’t that they won’t go quietly, aren’t dying off, etc.

    They DO die off but then *more* grifting, hate-filled assholes are born (made) due to federal farm subsidy payments, massive inheritances that go untaxed, rentier-class grift income via  landlording and low-wage business ownership, and other unearned money-funnels that keep the Republican Asshole class clothed, fed, and disproportionately benefited from the hard effort and stolen dollars of actual working people, poor people, and their families.

    As long as there are massive subsidies for Republicans to exist, they’ll keep being made, and keep plaguing the rest of us with their unproductive bullshit, harassment, anti-knowledge attitudes, and grifting.

  270. 270.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    I well know. I lived in the middle north end of the San Gabriel Vally not far from those homes in Glendora and the LA river and the Santa Fe river were FULL and I drove over bridges with water so deep it was splashing over the roadways. I’ve been at sea with 50 ft waves and raining so hard that seeing much past the bow of the 450 foot ship I was on from the bridge was hard. And SoCal was pretty much the same except for the boat.

  271. 271.

    Kay

    July 16, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    This is Ohio’s Issue One, where Republicans are trying to outlaw referendums because they cannot allow a vote on womens autonomy and agency – they might lose if they did.

    Get Out the Vote Rally with John Legend in Cincinnati on July 18

    Meet a Legend, Be a Legend and Vote No on Issue 1!

    Grab your friends, listen to John Legend share why we need to vote NO in August, and then go across the street to early vote at the Hamilton County BOE!

  272. 272.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 3:55 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:  They don’t die off because the rest of us are made to pay for them to keep being generated.

    Every  wage dollar stolen from a motel housekeeper or migrant worker or fast-food employee, every federal farm subsidy payment taken from our income taxes and given to a big Arkansas or Texas  “Granddaddy Landowner” keeps the rentier class going —

    — and donating to people like Asa Hutchinson and Tommy Tubberville, and sponsoring fun fancy outings for right-wing Extreme Court Justices.

  273. 273.

    J R in WV

    July 16, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    I have decided to put Oldgold in the pie safe for the duration… seems pointless to respond to his countless support for fascist haters and  monsters! Bye, dude!

  274. 274.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Oh I agree with you!

    The sun has been around a very, very, very long time. In it’s timeframe of existence our equivalent of maybe 75-90 yrs is like a second or two. Humanity is 10 minutes old in reference to the sun and planets. We think we are in charge, but it’s the planets that have the say, we get to mow the lawns and watch the sun come up and go down.

  275. 275.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 4:27 pm

    @Betsy:

    I think it is more the inequalities of humanity. We are not all strong or smart or skilled, and many think they are all of that when they are none of it. But we are all humans. OK most of us….

    We all want a world where we can live and shine, even as many of us don’t shine at all and many think they are brighter than the sun. We vary, we love, we hate, we survive, we die at 6 months old. Or before we take one breath. Some smoke and live to be 110, still smoking. We are humanity, with all our strengths and weaknesses and foibles. We are great and beautiful, we are shit and ugly, and every point and combination inbetween. We can be better, all of us and we can be worse, all of us. And all of this has been going on for some time, since the first one of us rose out of the primordial ooze.

    All change takes time, desire and effort. Arguing among us doesn’t normally get us anywhere unless it sparks a desire and an understanding of either power or betterment. And power wins more than betterment because power is fast and betterment takes a long time and effort. At some point betterment can win but that either leaves a lot of bodies or a lot of converts. Converts are better but that’s a harder task. Which is one reason that humanity often leaves a lot of bodies in it’s wake. Converts can also be crap because often it is easier to convert many to worse than better. We survive and grow with effort and knowledge. Not everyone is smart enough to get that.

  276. 276.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2023 at 4:40 pm

    @Betsy: I agree with your general point. I would just point out that a lot of farm subsidy payments go to zip codes in cities like San Francisco and Minneapolis and not just to red states.

  277. 277.

    Ruckus

    July 16, 2023 at 4:47 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I don’t believe that is why he is saying this. Not everyone is into politics as much as say we are is what I believe is what he is saying, and it is true, not everyone is. Some have been one party or another for a very long time and that has worked for them. That it hasn’t worked for many others may not be because they are haters, just because they don’t follow politics all that much.

  278. 278.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 4:58 pm

    @Ruckus: Much to think about here.  I’m always interested in your take on things.

  279. 279.

    Betsy

    July 16, 2023 at 5:00 pm

    @Geminid: Oh, sure.  Many of the rentier class love their sophisticated luxuries, and being surrounded by the blandishments of civilization, and good doctors and lawyers and fancy accountants, no doubt.

  280. 280.

    No One You Know

    July 16, 2023 at 5:22 pm

    @oldgold: You can’t persuade the poorly educated. They like being poorly educated. I want them to shut up and quit threatening people who don’t want what they want. And they have no concerns about threatening entities and open carrying their point.

  281. 281.

    No One You Know

    July 16, 2023 at 5:26 pm

    @J R in WV: Likewise. I don’t know how he got out the last time.

  282. 282.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2023 at 5:32 pm

    @Betsy: Yes, and a lot of the big farms are in blue states like California and Minnesota. The current owners may even vote for and donate to Democrats, like many other wealthy liberals do. Especially since Congress is not trying to cut these subsidies in the new five year Farm Bill that is now being marked up. These folks may be a couple generations removed from farming, and may only hear about tractors from their accountants.

  283. 283.

    2liberal

    July 16, 2023 at 6:56 pm

    @Spanky:  Since OT, somebody should send up the Bat Signal to Billin, because today’s APOD has thrown down the gauntlet.

     

    looks like a scene in a superhero movie

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