Two superyachts are in the news today. The first belongs to Harlan Crow, whose patronage of Clarence Thomas included lavish free yacht vacations to beaches and ports around the world aboard Crow’s 162-foot vessel, the Michaela Rose.
New reporting from ProPublica suggests Crow might have misled the IRS about his yacht’s status as a commercial enterprise, a lie Crow may have spun up to collect tax credits for which he was not eligible. A couple of excerpts:
The rich, as we’ve reported, often deduct millions of dollars from their taxes related to buying and operating their jets and yachts. Crow followed that formula through a company that purported to charter his superyacht. But a closer examination of how Crow used the yacht raises questions about his compliance with the tax code, experts said. Despite Crow’s representations to the IRS, ProPublica reporters could find no evidence that his yacht company was actually a profit-seeking business, as the law requires.
“Based on what information is available, this has the look of a textbook billionaire tax scam,” said Senate Finance Committee chair Ron Wyden, D-Ore. “These new details only raise more questions about Mr. Crow’s tax practices, which could begin to explain why he’s been stonewalling the Finance Committee’s investigation for months…”
ProPublica interviewed around a dozen former crew members of the Michaela Rose, some of whom spent years aboard the ship, and none said they were aware of the boat ever being chartered. ProPublica also reviewed cruising schedules for three different years. According to the former staff and the schedules, use of the vessel appears to have been limited to Crow’s family, friends and executives of Crow’s company, along with their guests.
Is there a Repub sugar daddy who isn’t a cheating grifter? No wonder the Repub-controlled House was so keen to defund the IRS — they’re terrified that staffing the agency adequately would significantly decrease their donors’ disposable income.
In other shipping news, Spanish activists from the environmental group Futuro Vegetal vandalized a yacht that belongs to Walmart heiress Nancy Walton Laurie when the vessel was moored in Ibiza. From the photo in the CNN report, it looks like the activists spray-painted the boat’s stern to use as a backdrop for a video denouncing the super-wealthy for excessive consumption. The group’s actions are part of a wider effort:
“The action puts the finishing touch to the “Jets and Yachts, the party is over” campaign, convened by Extinction Rebellion Ibiza who demand the prohibition of private jets and the end of luxury emissions,” Futuro Vegetal said.
The climate group Extinction Rebellion (XR) has also pledged to target the 1%, saying they want to make it clear that “the rich and their leisure activities that waste essential resources are a luxury that we cannot afford.”
Earlier this month XR activists in Spain plugged up holes on 10 golf courses around the country to protest the water use by golf courses during one of Spain’s worst droughts on record.
I don’t know how effective this sort of thing is, but it strikes me as significantly more constructive than vandalizing priceless works of art. Funding for extremely clever forensic auditors at the IRS and enforceable higher tax rates for the fat cats would be more constructive still!
Open thread.
Baud
Maybe hosting Thomas counts as a business expense.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
No kidding!
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: Are SC
bribesrelationships tax-deductible?Gin & Tonic
Relatedly, I have also seen reports that Yevgeny Prigozhin’s yacht is for sale.
sdhays
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Only if you’re super-rich.
sdhays
@Gin & Tonic: Was it one of those that was impounded last year, or is he selling it to try to scrape some change together?
Juice Box
@Baud: Of course it is!
Baud
@sdhays:
You’re saying a portion of the standard deduction isn’t allocated to giving gifts to judges?
Steve in the ATL
Is there a billionaire who isn’t a cheating grifter?
No one gets that rich without being a bastard.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: By all available accounts, Michael Dell seems to be a decent human being.
sdhays
@Baud: I’m afraid not. At least I didn’t see any mention of it in TurboTax this year.
Baud
I just saw this timely post on Mastodon.
Bupalos
I fully support anything and everything up to and including sinking these monstrosities of gluttony.
The only downside as climate action is it feels a tweensy bit like trying to convince oneself that the exceptional others are the cause. When it’s really just all of us.
Bupalos
@Baud: this is the kind of stupid whataboutism I’m talking about being the downside of targeting billionaires.
That someone else is worse than you doesn’t make you ok.
Baud
@Bupalos:
I have never claimed to be ok.
Ken
Does the my-vehicle-is-really-a-business deduction translate to lower tax levels? Like, if I let a friend “charter” my car for a couple hours, can I deduct my car payments and fuel costs from my taxes? How about Uber and Lyft drivers?
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: @Bupalos: between the orcas and the angry sea otters, the superyacht problem should be solved soon
Geminid
In other shipping news, the Black Sea Grain Initiative expires at midnight tonight. Today Russia formally objected to its continuation.
Turkish President Reccip Erdogan says his Foreign Minister will speak to Russia’s about the matter today, and that he will speak to Putin “if neccesary.” Putin is still scheduled to visit Turkiye next month
Ukraine has shipped 32 million tons of grain and oil seed through the Black Sea since the deal began last August.
Baud
@Ken:
Uber and Lyft drivers can almost certainly claim their cars as business expenses.
NotMax
Baksheesh Turner Overdrive.
//
Ken
Pretty sure most of them get that rich by being members of the lucky sperm club, but I suppose that doesn’t preclude being a bastard in either sense of the word.
Baud
Our own Tom Levenson weighs in.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: The article is alarming if accurate because if those relatively sleek yachts pollute that much, just think of what the typical naval or cargo vessels put out.
p.a.
It’s all good as long as a billionaire who you barely know doesn’t offer you the spare seat on his private jet to get to another billionaire’s dock for your yacht trip.
That would be wrong.
Kay
I love that they just buy the yachts because they are desperate to spend some money on something and they have everything else. Come on. They don’t care about being “at sea”. It’s a floating mansion.
Kay
Crow should say he’s employing shipbuilders. A job creator. He probably will.
Brachiator
Nah. Some of the ultra rich are just rapaciously greedy scum. They would still be very comfortable if the IRS was able to go after them more aggressively.
Anyway
Bwahaha! yeah I know, vandalism of public prop… blablabla — LOLOL!
Bupalos
@Baud: the author you’re boosting there starts in by denigrating individual action in snide terms. This is pretty explicit whataboutism. It’s not too far from the way Al Gore’s personal consumption was used to tarnish his message.
dirge
Is it though? How much have “exceptional others” relative to “all of us” contributed to climate change denial lobbying and propaganda over the last 60 years or so, and how much has that contributed to climate change relative to the counterfactual? I think that’s probably a pretty large effect.
Granted, that 20 assholes are emitting at egregious rates is a drop in the ocean, but it’s also just a tiny symbolic representation of their vast responsibility for the problem.
smith
@Brachiator: That’s what’s so morally repugnant about the mobster-oligarchs: They have so much money that even if they paid their fair share in taxes they’d still have so much they wouldn’t know what to do with it. Somehow they think it’s a matter of principle to them to leech off the rest of us. Only little people pay taxes, and there’s no way they’ll let anyone think they’re little!
Kay
Here’s a picture of it:
In Germany. They couldn’t even get a US built yacht.
sdhays
@p.a.: You know, liberals talk a good game about conservation, but when a Supreme Court Justice does his part for climate change and takes a private jet seat that would have been wasted on his way to a “nature retreat” with his friends/people he never met before that also would have been empty if he hadn’t gone!? Criticism!
Such hypocrites!
feebog
You’re kidding, right?
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: The antecedent to the pronoun “they” is “Repub-controlled House.”
Kay
In one of the pics it’s flying the Union Jack. Are they Tories? :)
Rob in CT
None of these assholes have a proper imagination.
Have billions of dollars? Build a perfect replica of the HMS Surprise and pay (properly) to crew it up and sail it around. At least that would be cool.
Miss Bianca
@Rob in CT: I’d drink to that!
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
I’ve seen Paul Allen’s superyacht several times in Bonaire – it is massive. There’s a hangar for a full sized Bell helicopter, a Captain’s Launch (that qualifies as a yacht in its own right) hanging from davits along with at least three ocean-going runabouts, a couple of RIB boats and about a half-dozen jet skis. Interestingly, he loans it out to any ocean research agency that asks.
I think he’s got some notion of being a decent steward.
rikyrah
Ohio, what say you?![]()
Marc E. Elias (@marceelias) tweeted at 8:07 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
Frank LaRose is a proud vote suppressor and underminer of free and fair elections. Lets hope the media treats him as such.
https://t.co/5BYAylho3g
(https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1680927204056657922?t=933KaCuHfecbcdQGAgvS0g&s=03)
rikyrah
Brian J. Karem (@BrianKarem) tweeted at 10:07 PM on Sun, Jul 16, 2023:
Met a woman today at Bristols in Louisville.
Said she was a “Devout Christian.”
Everytime she meets a Trump supporter who claims to be Christian she asks them to name “One thing- not 2 or 3 or 4” but one thing Trump has done that Jesus would approve of.
“Nobody has ever named… https://t.co/NvCx0drFRk
(https://twitter.com/BrianKarem/status/1680776255455518721?t=Z4P1IgVARefbEK3XC8hLuA&s=03)
rikyrah
Christopher Webb (@cwebbonline) tweeted at 5:21 PM on Sun, Jul 16, 2023:
“2023’s Worst States To Live & Work” list is out and they all have something in common? They’re all red states.
All run by Republicans — bad for… https://t.co/k3zytBGYmy
(https://twitter.com/cwebbonline/status/1680704133345730560?t=olm4wa-X7Ne-H5GvKbLh_Q&s=03)
rikyrah
Jon Cooper (@joncoopertweets) tweeted at 7:45 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
BOOM! The Kremlin blamed Ukraine for an attack last night on a vital bridge in occupied Crimea. The Russian military uses it to support its troops in southern Ukraine.
The traffic jam of Russians trying to flee Crimea is reportedly more than SIX MILES long.![]()
https://t.co/dJVBhGSEDb
(https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1680921618648903680?t=VNW-pmMiMLRaUwelehaq9g&s=03)
VOR
@Steve in the ATL: “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.” – Honore de Balzac
Baud
So I can view some tweets when I click and not others.
not sure what Musk is doing.
scav
Speaking of which
Europe should cap ‘luxury’ energy use to meet emissions targets, study says
Limiting demand of richest 20% saves seven times greenhouse gases required to meet needs of poorest 20%, researchers find
Bupalos
@dirge: Sure. And I’m all for holding these folks to account in ways as far beyond spray paint protest as their egregious consumption is beyond average.
I’m just calling attention to the subtle rhetorical downside. Which the Mastodon poster that Baud embedded shows in spades.
rikyrah
THIS is why whatever Feinstein needs, she gets.
Nothing is more important than these judges.
Ben LaBolt (@WHCommsDir) tweeted at 6:36 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
CNN: Biden’s diverse judicial nominees move swiftly through Dem Senate … “The newly minted judges represent the culmination of promises by @POTUS and Democratic lawmakers to bring more diversity, including varied professional experiences to the bench.”
Herbie Ziskend (@HerbieZiskend46) tweeted at 6:48 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
![]()
President Biden has had more federal judges confirmed than President Trump, President Obama, and President George W. Bush had at this point in their presidencies. And President Biden has faced a closely divided senate.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Perhaps worse, Frank LaRose is a CLOWN. He’s not a serious person. Dumb as a rock. A hack. The idea that he should be in the US Senate is nuts. He’s been way overpromoted as it is.
He’s what happens when you shut out all political competition in a state thru anti-democratic means and manipulation. You get low quality hires. Sherrod runs really good campaigns. I’m betting on him.
rikyrah
Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) tweeted at 7:36 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
1. A Popular Information analysis of @RobertKennedyJr’s first FEC filing reveals the lion’s share of Kennedy’s biggest donors have PREVIOUSLY DONATED ONLY TO REPUBLICANS
Follow along for details.
Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) tweeted at 7:38 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
2. Through 6/30, Kennedy’s campaign has collected the maximum, $6,600, from 96 individuals.
37 individuals have previously only donated to Republican candidates for federal office.
Only 19 have a history of consistently supporting Dem candidates
Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) tweeted at 7:40 AM on Mon, Jul 17, 2023:
3. Mark Dickson, a Californian who amassed a fortune in the aerospace industry, has donated more than 450K to federal candidates since 2015
The total includes $400,000 to Trump Victory
Dickson has NEVER supported a Democrat running for office
Until he maxed out to Kennedy
(https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1680920464573493248?t=ULJCzdo856iIQjfG9fXePw&s=03)
Yarrow
@Kay: The yacht is flying the Union Jack? Which picture is that? Extinction Rebellion is UK-based. Possibly something to do with that?
That being said, many of the same dark money people go back and forth between the UK and the US. The money/power behind the far right/ Conservative party in the UK (Tories) and US far right and Republican party is frequently coming from the same place/people. And of course Russian money has been funding rightwing things in both countries.
Hungry Joe
If I were a greedy, super-rich bastard (but I repeat myself) I’d hire top-of-the-line tax experts and tell them, “Take whatever deductions and credits are obvious and above board, but I want to pay every cent I owe so that 1) I can sleep at night, and 2) I never, ever, EVER go to prison.” I suspect it’s that kind of thinking that prevented me from becoming super-rich.
Not long ago I saw a documentary about mega-yachts and the mine-is-bigger game played by billionaires. In one scene, a mega-yacht owner is being tootled around a harbor to inspect the competition. His yacht is something like 80-90 feet, many tens of millions of dollars. He cuts the tour short because he keeps seeing yachts bigger and fancier than his, and envy is making him sick. I had trouble relating.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@rikyrah:
Brian is a really good guy (we’re related – he’s something in the vicinity of my third cousin a couple of times removed or thereabouts), and we have met a few times. Some of my closer cousins that I have a lot of contact with have spent a fair amount of time with him.
RaflW
That Crow scam is exactly why Congressional Republicans want to defang the IRS. Dems should be hitting them hard on this. Its bad enough that the billionaires have gotten top rates as low as they have, they should not also get away with bullshit ‘deductions’ and shell corps. Dammit.
rikyrah
Anne T. Griffin | annetgriffin.eth (she/her) (@annetgriffin) tweeted at 11:01 AM on Sun, Jul 16, 2023:
Everyone should be watching the writers and actors strikes closely. You may *think* your job is safe from this too, but as someone who has been studying AI for a while, it’s not as safe as you think. This is a critical battle for the future of workers rights and a livable future.
(https://twitter.com/annetgriffin/status/1680608653760512000?t=uQvqDn1fD9aeFjMkyfm_FA&s=03)
rikyrah
Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) tweeted at 2:03 PM on Sat, Jul 15, 2023:
Biden Harris just announced record fundraising while Justice Democrats just announced they’re laying off half their staff.
No doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should.
(https://twitter.com/eclecticbrotha/status/1680292059272314883?s=02)
rikyrah
I Stan Angela Bassett and Humanty![]()
tiredofit10 (@tiredofit10) tweeted at 3:36 PM on Sun, Jul 16, 2023:![]()
https://t.co/Mn5QnP5pcO
Justice Democrats tried to do a hostile takeover of the Democratic Party. They thought it would be easy peasy. They thought the base of the Democrats were dumb and didn’t know what was good for them. Black folk in this country didnt survive by being dumb. Not at all! The base
(https://twitter.com/tiredofit10/status/1680677926893748226?s=02)
Kay
@Yarrow:
“View photo gallery” at bottom. I kow they flag them all different ways for various reasons- I just thought it was funny that these ridiculous, decadent anti democratic egos are tooling around under the British flag plotting management of the lower classes.
Betty Cracker
@RaflW: According to the ProPublica report, the Crows’ average annual tax rate is about 15%. I know Dems DO hit Repubs hard on protecting the rich from paying their fair share — Joe Biden compares the tax rates of the super-rich to that of nurses, cops, retail employees, etc., every chance he gets. It’s a winning message, and I hope they keep right on pounding it.
Baud
If the IRS can go after billionaires’ jets and yachts, what’s to stop them from going after your jets and yachts?
Spanky
@Kay: From your linky:
Heh. Indeed.
West of the Rockies
@Bupalos:
Sinking them is a tremendous waste of materials. How about dry-docking them abd turning them into museums, hotels, etc.
Rob in CT
@Hungry Joe:
See, again, such lack of imagination! Don’t compete on size – that’s boring and there will always been a newer bigger yacht built at some point.
There are interesting things these guys could use their money on, even if we stay within “build a really expensive boat.”
Sure, Bill, you have a nice fancy yacht. I, however, have a 28-gun Frigate.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
OT – the Gilgo Beach serial killer “Manhattan Architect” (his house was a fucking nightmare) was also a “good guy with a gun”.
New York Post commenters/gun nuts are apoplectic over the gross violation of his precious rights by seizures of the weapons (wish I was kidding).
This was from CNN – The Gun Hoard
I think this guy is going to turn out to be the most prolific killer in New York history, even more than Rifkin. I think he was moving on toward people who WOULD be missed, which was why the task force moved on him now.
Maxim
@Kay: I can’t help noticing that that page announces in no fewer than three places that the yacht is NOT FOR CHARTER. Presumably ProPublica has already sent the link to the IRS.
Baud
If I were super rich, I think I’d prefer an ocean going sailboat to a yacht.
Yarrow
@Kay: At the bottom of what? I don’t see “view photo gallery” on the ProPublica article or the CNN link.
Sure Lurkalot
As others have pointed out, even taxing billionaires fairly will not deprive them of their exploitive lifestyles in any significant manner. Unfortunately, 40+ years of Reaganomics/Chicago School nonsense has lined their pockets so bigly that the world will never be rid of these paragons of excess. Doesn’t help that much of humanity idolizes wealth in the first place and those that wield it as well.
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
You really, really do not want to know how much.
Ex USN sailor here, my duty on at sea refueling was ship to ship communications.
It at least got better when the ship was switched from bunker oil to jet fuel to run the boilers. Much cleaner, more efficient, much less obvious pollution.
Betty Cracker
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: It’s such a bizarre story! Apparently Rudy Giuliani has a podcast now, and he showed up at the accused killer’s house over the weekend to talk to the cops. Never got out of his car.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Sure Lurkalot: Right. Once you get rich enough, you can’t stop pulling in money. Or I don’t know, maybe you can but it might take a global meltdown. You can’t spend it fast enough.
Gin & Tonic
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
I think he’s dead.
Ksmiami
@Geminid: Turkey can say no Russian ships in the Dardanelles…
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
This.
They do not want to pay the government a dime. It is money that they do not think they get any thing from spending, therefore it doesn’t benefit them, therefore they shouldn’t have to pay.
andy
@Chief Oshkosh: well, cargo ships DO pollute a lot, but they do actual work. the price per ton moving cargo by water is less than anything else, so at least you get more done for that penalty.
Geminid
@Geminid: Turks are celebrating their teams victory in the FIVB world women’s volleyball championship. They beat the USA in the semis, and yesterday they won their finals match against China.
They need something to celebrate. With his reelection in the books, Erdogan has adopted more orthodox economic policies in order to tame high inflation, and interest rates have jumped. Turkiye also raised taxes including the one on gasoline. Erdogan says it’s to pay for restoration of the cities and towns devastated by last February’s 7.7 magnitude earthquake that killed over 40,000 people.
Kay
@RaflW:
Unfortunately, and this happens too much, some Democratic pundits joined in at the outset of the war on the IRS when conservatives claimed the IRS were discriminating against conservative speech re: 5013(c)’s. Kevin Drum was one of the hoodwinked.
It was complete bullshit and it was obvious it was complete bullshit from the get-go. It is ridiculous to imagine that a bunch of career IRS employees in Ohio are plotting to silence the Tea Party. That didn’t happen. We now know it didn’t happen, but extraordinary claims should require at least ORDINARY evidence and they had NONE.
There are certain actors in Democratic and liberal politics who “mainstream” far Right theories by endorsing them. It happens over and over again. It just happened with “wokeness” and “cancel culture”.
It’s our middle aged white guy centrist pundit problem. They want conservatives to like and admire them because they’re not really comfortable with our actual base – our base is not middle aged white guy centrists. They seek validation from the Right.
Kay
@Yarrow:
Oh, I’m sorry. The yacht broker link.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
We need to re-write that Steinbeck line for temporarily PJ-less Spirit Air coach passengers
@Baud: You could always book yourself on the Sea Cloud, yet another legacy of Marjorie Merriweather Post. That’s a lotta Raisin Bran.
Geminid
@rikyrah: I got retweeted by Mr. Lobster on this topic! It was a reply I made to @TomWatson. Not bad for a humble meteor.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Pretty prices, considering that wind is free.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Betty Cracker:
I started down this rabbit hole Friday, and it finally got me to do what I swore I’d never do – get into murder podcasts.
My wife decided to take my father-in-law’s car from his Estate, and we listened to podcasts mocking BTK as well as Joel Rifkin all the way from North Carolina to here. Right now, I’m listening to Gacy podcasts at work.
There are a couple of local interest cases where I knew people involved that I’m going to catch back up on. The “Glitterball City” murder (gay throuple that had a bad night and buried someone in the basement – google name “Banis”) was prosecuted by a lawyer who works in my office now, and I know the judge, defense lawyer, etc. very well. The Mel Ignatow sexual torture murder and incomprehensible acquittal was perpetrated by the father of an elementary school classmate of mine, defended by a lawyer I know, and his accomplice used to work for a dear friend/former law partner of mine as a legal secretary.
It is pretty gruesome stuff.
Yarrow
@Kay: Ok. Thanks. Looks like a Red Ensign flag. Google says it is registered in the UK, so that makes sense.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Gin & Tonic: He is.
Ruckus
@Baud:
The easy way to fix your twitter problem is not to tweet. Of course some will say that not tweeting will help him. But in the long run if he looses 50 or 75 percent of his customers, that is a kick in the soft spot. Sure the site might actually work but it will be so much less that it won’t be worth the billions he’s spent/spending. Of course it might also just fail because of his purchasing it and working trying to save it.
Baud
@Ruckus: I don’t tweet. Only go there when people here link.
Brachiator
@smith:
I have to admit that I am only concerned that the ultra rich pay their fair share. How they spend their money after this is not my business.
Roger Moore
@Ken:
It’s still a net expense relative to not having a yacht, but it’s cheaper than having the yacht and not deducting the costs. I think that’s true of a lot of the tax dodges. They activity is still a net expense, but some of the cost is paid for by tax subsidies. It makes sense if you wanted to do it anyway, but you shouldn’t do something you didn’t want to do just to save money on your taxes.
Kay
@RaflW:
They always get wrapped around the axle on the same thing, too. They always respond to and endorse Right wing claims that Democrats are chilling speech. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Right knows this and frames this bullshit that way deliberately.
Craig
@Kay: they are rarely at sea. Crew ferries the yatch to where owner wants it. He flies to where it is and putters around an island or whatever. As you say, a floating mansion wherever you want it.
dm
A few years ago I decided that journalism was in a bad state, and good journalism needed support.
So every month I’ve given a little to Pro Publica.
I’ve got to say that investment has paid off in delightful ways.
Geminid
@andy: Maritime shipping accounted for an estimated 2.8% of carbon emissions worldwide in 2021. The EU has influence in this area because of the number of ships that use its ports, and it is setting targets for converting ships to renewable fuels.
So Evergreen Shipping has ordered 24 large, 15,000 TEU capacity container ships from shipyards in Korea and Japan that will run on carbon-neutral biomethonal.
Maersk Shipping has also ordered 24 of these ships. They also have a smaller, 2400 TEU methonal-powered ship that is sailing from a shipyard at Ulsan, Korea to the port of Copenhagen. It will serve customers on the Baltic Sea.
European Council President Ursala von der Leyen is expected to be on hand to christen this ship when it arrives September 16. It’s a Hyundai!
smith
@Brachiator: My point was that their refusal to pay taxes has little or nothing to do with money, as paying taxes wouldn’t affect their wealth particularly. Instead, it’s the loss of status they’d feel if they had to pay taxes like ordinary people.
Old Man Shadow
But chartered limos to take them to the Soylent Green processing plant would be much more emotionally satisfying.
Brachiator
@smith:
Okay. I think that they just enjoy being greedy scum, but I take your point.
Jeffro
That NYT article that someone mentioned in the last thread (about trump and his GOP arsonist ‘Allies’ planning to completely concentrate executive branch power in trump’s hands if he wins in 2024) is indeed horrifying.
Trump, Unrestrained In Any Way. Think about that, America.
Absolutely horrifying stuff no matter which Republican they nominate, folks. But we knew that.
sdhays
@Kay: It’s also an issue that a lot of these guys want to believe in some kind of “political discourse”, and you need to believe that there are some conservatives operating in good faith in order to do that. So, they themselves try to operate “in good faith” by taking seriously what they consider to be reasonable concerns on paper rather being skeptical and waiting for some confirmation before joining in.
They should have retired at least 20 years ago because if you think Republicans operate in good faith after, at least, Bush v. Gore, you’re stupid or not paying attention – and neither one of those should be acceptable for a political pundit.
Steeplejack
@VOR:
A bastardization of what Balzac originally wrote, which was (paraphrasing slightly, because I don’t have my link-fu handy): “The secret of every great fortune with no apparent source is a hidden crime.”
dm
@Geminid: I periodically hear about ventures trying to bring back sail, but in high tech ways that don’t involve 200 foot plunges into the sea from yard arm.
Things like vertical-shaft wind mills, computer-controlled composite masts and sails, even giant kites to catch the stronger winds a few hundred feet up.
But then every ten years or so, someone suggests bringing back blimps, too.
Ksmiami
@West of the Rockies: homeless shelters would be appropriate I think
Kelly
A few manufacturers are building catamarans mostly powered by solar panels on the roof. The boats travel at sail boat speeds a 100 miles or so a day. If only we could shift the billionaires dick measuring competition to the greenest super yacht. It’s a floating mansion why should they care how fast it travels?
dm
@Ksmiami: I was thinking refugee camps.
patrick II
@Baud:
That is why you are a tenable alternative to Trump.
HumboldtBlue
@Chief Oshkosh:
That giant cargo ship isn’t just belching plumes of exhaust; it may be seeding clouds primed for lighting strikes. In a study published today in Geophysical Research Letters, researchers calculated average yearly rates of lightning in the northeastern Indian Ocean and the South China Sea for the years 2005 through 2016.
opiejeanne
@rikyrah: Mississippi must have just missed the cut, probably coming in at #11 on the worst states scale.
Elizabelle
Satire from Andy Borowitz of The New Yorker:
Alito and Thomas Write Opinion Declaring That Yachts Are People
The sweeping opinion grants the luxury vessels the unlimited ability to entertain government officials on their decks in order to gain political influence.
Ken
Or keeping them at sea as refuges from the zombie plague, which was one of the vignettes in World War Z. (As I recall, the plan fell apart when it turned out zombies can walk along the ocean floor and climb anchor chains.)
Bupalos
@Geminid: These will be ships capable of burning carbon neutral biomethanol. Provided they can find and prefer to burn carbon-neutral biomethanol.
The biofuels route is for the most part a mugs game. It probably could be done in a carbon neutral way, if you squinted just right. Fischer-tropsch on gasification of clean wood waste, from sustainable lots, that simultaneously produced biochar for agriculture? That might actually be carbon neutral. But it’s pretty nearly a certainty that the biofuels sector will be dominated by much less “neutral” processes. Huge gap between carbon neutral and “this could be carbon neutral if you consider it over an 80 year timeline that won’t actually be happening.”
Brachiator
@Ken:
A friend, probably not. But if you regularly let a third party charter your car, you might be able to claim expenses if you also report income.
If these drivers can claim to be self-employed, they can claim expenses. Of course some states and the feds want to “help” these drivers by declaring that they are employees.
Roger Moore
@Hungry Joe:
There’s very little risk of going to prison for tax fraud. I’m sure Bursnbesq can give you much more detail, but the law basically says that it’s only criminal if the government can prove you knew it wasn’t a legitimate way of lowering your taxes. This is very difficult to prove. It’s almost impossible unless you create a paper trail proving you knew it was wrong or if you do something nonsensical like claiming the 16th Amendment is invalid.
As long as you don’t do that, your accountants can try all kinds of crazy schemes; as long as they haven’t been shown to be illegitimate before you use them, the worst you would face would be paying the taxes you owe with a penalty. This is why most billionaires (and big companies) try all kinds of crazy stuff to lower their taxes; there’s very little downside.
Geminid
@Ksmiami: Yeah, Turkiye has a lot of leverage here. They have a sizeable Navy equipped and trained to NATO standards, and the alliance’s 3rd largest Air Force. Russia could not afford to fight Turkiye in the western Black Sea. They already have their hands full trying to hold to the land they’ve stolen from Ukraine.
But I think Erdogan will make his frenemy Putin see reason and reauthorize the Grain Initiative. Which in a way is too bad; I want see a line of Turkish frigates steaming past Istanbul on their way to the Black Sea, with big crowds of Turks cheering them on and waving brooms.
But it’s always easier to want other people’s wars. Erdogan won’t fight Russia unless he has to.
smith
These are often people who like to flatter themselves that they are liberal, when in fact they are nothing of the sort. Their misogyny showed clearly in their treatment of Hillary and the MeToo movement. Not coincidentally, their deep discomfort about non-traditional gender roles pops up again in their “asking questions” about trans people. And of course, their scandalized reaction to “woke” and “cancel culture” shows that they are not comfortable with anyone demanding respect for anyone not white, cis male, and affluent. There is no reason for the rest of us to accept the pretense that they are any more enlightened than the average Goober.
Ken
A music student runs into three professors at a coffee shop, who invite the student to join them. They are debating which is the greatest Western composer: Beethoven, Bach, or Brahms. The student, puzzled, says “What about Mozart?” The professors explain, “We always leave him out, or there would be no debate.”
Maybe the evaluation omits Mississippi for similar reasons?
rikyrah
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
How many do they think he’s linked to?
Ruckus
@Kelly:
It’s a floating mansion why should they care how fast it travels?
Time is money!
Their time is far more valuable than ours. Just ask them.
And it’s them spending their hard earned millions. I mean think of all the bullshit they had to go through not to pay taxes on their millions. Think of all that hard work it took to do who the hell knows what. Signing checks is tough. Especially when it’s demanded money that spending doesn’t benefit them directly.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack:
One quote source translates this as:
Or, shorter…
Ruckus
@Baud:
You do know that any sailboat large enough to live on has an engine, don’t you? Mine did.
Realworldrj
I think propublica made a basic business reporting mistake. Crows enterprise is commercial in nature and owns the Supreme Court.
The Thin Black Duke
Reading about zillionaires and their infantile dick-measuring contests about the size of their yachts brings to mind this scene from American Psycho:
https://youtu.be/cISYzA36-ZY
FelonyGovt
Here in LA, I’ve been reading a lot about the concurrent film and TV actors, writers, and hotel workers strikes. I’m really struck by the huge disparities in pay between the worker bees and the top executives. I’ve never been much of a communist, but these gross imbalances in wealth are obscene and indefensible, and I don’t think they can continue indefinitely.
Barney
@scav: For context, the energy use of that top 20%, averaged across all countries, would be limited at 170 gigajoules (or if you limited just the top 10%, 214 GJ). The average use of all Americans is 301 million BTU, or 318 GJ.
rikyrah
The Memo: Democrat suspicions grow about RFK Jr., Cornel West, No Labels
BY NIALL STANAGE – 07/17/23 5:30 AM ETDemocrats aren’t just growing concerned about some potential third-party presidential candidates. They’re also becoming increasingly suspicious about those people’s motivations.
Supporters of President Biden see several threats on the horizon, beyond the Republican Party itself.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has gained more traction than many Democrats expected in his primary challenge to Biden. A potential presidential candidacy facilitated by the No Labels group is causing consternation. And the decision by left-wing academic and author Cornel West to seek the Green Party’s presidential nomination further jangles nerves.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4098630-the-memo-democrat-suspicions-grow-about-rfk-jr-cornel-west-no-labels/
Baud
@Ruckus:
It doesn’t always need to be on though.
Geminid
@Bupalos: You sound awful sure about this. Have you looked into recent reporting in this area?
I see similar scepticism about hydrogen fuel cells as a power source. People will say this propulsion mode might be practical at a future date. But there were multiple fuel cell-powered locomotives pulling trains in Lower Saxony, Germany last year, with more on order from their French manufacturer. Major companies like Bosch, Hyundai and Cummins are entering this field and scaling up production
I think Evergreen and Maersk are taking decarbonizing their fleets very seriously, if only because the EU is making them. Their commitment to biomethonal might be a ruse, but I doubt it.
different-church-lady
@Anyway: uhhh… these folks are aware that golf courses move the holes around on the greens on a frequent basis, yes?
Brachiator
@Ken:
This reminds me of something that a musically minded coworker used to say.
“When the angels play music for God, they play Brahms. When they play for themselves, they play Mozart.”
ETA. Agree with you about Mississippi.
mrmoshpotato
Tax the rich and slap them with fish.
Juju
@The Thin Black Duke: A movie I gave up on. Oh wait. Different thread. Oops.
Ella in New Mexico
In other news, Marge and Twatty Spice’s trashy cat fight is getting to the hair pulling stage and all their creepy male Republican colleagues are drooling to watch it go down
Sister Golden Bear
Just in case you needed any extra incentive for 2024: Trump Plots Massive Expansion Of Presidential Powers
Jeffro
@Sister Golden Bear: yup – that’s the one
glad to see the NYT reporting on it!
I think it was Jay Rosen who said our media needs less on the horse race and more on the stakes/what’s at stake in this election. 💯
Matt McIrvin
@Ken: The proscenium arch at Symphony Hall in Boston has all these blank spaces where they were supposed to put the names of composers. The only one that’s not blank is the most prominent central one that says “Beethoven”, because he was the only composer that the people in charge could agree deserved to be there.
Wag
@Kay:
I think Clarence deserves better than the yacht that he traveled on.
Jeffro
@Sister Golden Bear: kind of amazing that Maggie H was part of the reporting team here, too (or at least, that she didn’t save the info for a post-election book!)
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
I hope that one of the FrontPagers takes this to heart and highlights it. It definitely needs more exposure.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: This made me look up the original:
Le secret des grandes fortunes sans cause apparente est un crime oublié, parce qu’il a été proprement fait.
Which I’d translate very literally as “The secret of a great fortune with no visible source is a crime that’s been forgotten, because it was properly committed.”
StringOnAStick
@Kay: This weekend I met a guy who has a trades business in Silicon Valley. He told me how all these rich people require his company to sign NDA’s in order to work on their property, and how Larry E’s mega mansion in that area has a 4 acre lake, with the guess “bungalows” across the lake so he can send the guests home to them via boat when he’s tired of them after dinner, and that certain aspects of these bungalows were built with a material that we plebes use for jewelry.
This guy was obviously R leaning (he attributed the theft of the catalytic converter from our Prius to Portland being a “liberal” city). Rather than do my usual harsh act on this stuff (I’m learning to be better), in reference to the crazy levels of excess he described in the above story, I said “We need to go back to 1950’s tax rates of 90% on these guys, they have way too much money and spend it on ridiculous things like you had to do for him” and this guy agreed. I could tell he’d never thought of it that way before and since RW media is all about pushing for a return to the 1950’s, I wanted it to be clear that the 1950’s tax rates need to be part of the deal.
Ruckus
@Baud:
To be honest no one wanted that thing running. It was a small 3 cylinder diesel, made more noise than power and was slower than sailing in a moderate wind. Better than waiting hours when there was no wind though.
Matt McIrvin
@StringOnAStick: The comeback to that is always that hardly anyone ever actually paid those 1950s top marginal rates. But that’s because the incentive structure pushed corporations to compensate executives in different ways and put more money back into maintaining the business, and rich people to perform ostentatious acts of public charity instead of keeping all the cash in the family. And we still have useful stuff named after Carnegies and Mellons and Rockefellers all over.
gvg
@Brachiator: I also think it’s bad that we have so much hidden money. We need to be able to see where money is going and coming from. its bad that Russia and some others are bribing people in business and government. If we had better tax auditing and the powerful had to explain where there money came from and went, I think we would all be safer. Too much hiding of money through fancy shenanigans is allowed. Some of it is tax avoidance, a lot of it is just flat out crime.
Craig
@Sure Lurkalot: I blame Robin Leach.
Brachiator
@Sister Golden Bear:
Nixon had his enemies list. Trump has boxes full of grudges stacked high in a bathroom, and he is intent on getting even.
Trump is a vile, sick man who will be gunning for personal and political enemies if he gets elected again.
Brachiator
@gvg:
This is an international problem, as well as a US problem. I think that the EU was going to implement some new rules regarding financial transparency, but I don’t know the details.
StringOnAStick
@Matt McIrvin: True, but my point in what I said to him was to get a reliable R voter to start thinking about why these rich bastards his company does jobs for are so damned rich, and that they could pay higher taxes for the privilege of living in the US and being able to make so much money safely.
StringOnAStick
@Brachiator: Wasn’t the new financial disclosure rules the EU is requiring one of the major reasons why the Tories and their enablers went all in on Brexit? Can’t be disturbing, or most of all revealing, the $ flowing into Londongrad?
Geminid
@gvg: Legislation passed in the late 2020 “lame duck” session will help in this regard. The Corporate Transparency Act requires that corporations disclose their “beneficial,” or actual, ownership. This act was attached to the Natioonal Defense Authorization Act and passed notwithstanding Trump’s veto. A reporter for Forbes Magazine called the CTA the most significant corporate reform in decades. Former Congresswoman Caroline Maloney was the chief sponsor.
Paul in KY
@Baud: His lawyers will explore that strategery.
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: if one equates jangling nerves with traction, then yeah. Otherwise, no.
Ixnay
@Brachiator: et al. The great English conductor Henry Beecham, a noted atheist, said that while he did not believe in God, when he played the music of J S Bach, he believed in his God. I’m down with that.
Paul in KY
@Hungry Joe: The super-rich (in general) sleep soundly knowing they have screwed the government out of taxes.
cain
@Sister Golden Bear: He’s determined what the problem was – so when he does take over he will effectively end the DOJ so he can rule without anyone challenging him.
Paul in KY
@Maxim: I’m thinking that maybe he’s gonna say that he brings business clients out to schmooze them & conduct bidness deals & that counts.
cain
@Brachiator: I think though he’s going to have to fight the SCOTUS who is also interested in usurping the executive powers.
Paul in KY
@Ken: Excellent point. On this and Mozart.
mrmoshpotato
@Jeffro: Yes. It was.
Jay Rosen
@jayrosen_nyu
3h
“Not the odds, but the stakes.”
That’s my shortand for the organizing principle we most need from journalists covering the 2024 election. Not who has what chances of winning, but the consequences for our democracy.
Gravenstone
@Betty Cracker: Sounds like he actually wanted to wander around the property, but there were forensics investigators present and his request got shot down.
SteverinoCT
@Rob in CT:
curiously, my hardcover copy of “Master And Commander” just came today; I am slowly replacing my collection of various-sized Aubrey/Maturin paperbacks, and now I can send the spare to a shipmate to get him hooked.
Bupalos
@Geminid: The problem with biofuels isn’t that they aren’t ready for production. It’s that things get called a carbon neutral biofuel that in fact are not neutral at all, and can in some cases be more carbon intensive than fossil fuels. It’s not a technology issue, it’s an issue of carbon accounting that can amount to fraud.
Ethanol from corn is a great example. That’s a biofuel, and depending on how it gets accounted it can get called carbon neutral. It is anything but.
Jaybird
@Ruckus:
Lin and Larry Pardy, anyone?
(I would personally not live on a sailboat without an engine, not to travel in anyway.)
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Rob in CT: I mean, if you had the cash, there is nothing stopping you from building a ship equipped with cannon. It’s also likely the cannon balls would sink a modern yacht. That would make a semi hilarious story, ‘Climate activist pirate sinks yachts on the high seas’. A quote, ‘Aarr! We’re making artificial reefs, we are. We sent 43 capitalists to meet Davy Jones! That’ll be the end of their carbon pollutin ways.’
Yutsano
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: His widow, however, is a good egg.
Tehanu
Back in the 1990s a neighbor of ours invited us for a Saturday of sailing in his boat (well, “sailing” if you count using a motor and not having an actual sail). We thought, sure, why not, sounds like a nice afternoon. So we got to the marina and boarded the thing — which had three decks and was decorated exactly like somebody’s suburban living room in 1975, shag rugs and all — and it set off. After a bit, the neighbor said to sit with him on the deck whereupon he proceeded to show us a series of flash cards asking if we would participate in various business activities, and if we did, how we would rate them. This went on for a half-hour or so, after which he took the boat out to where Santa Monica Bay met the actual ocean — no farther — and then back to the pier or wharf or whatever they call it. It finally dawned on us that the entire thing was a tax scam and the flash cards were his excuse that it was a business trip. We thanked him politely and got the hell out, and ever since then, we’ve referred to it as “Our day on Das Boot.”