Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

In after Baud. Damn.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Friday Morning Open Thread: Putting in the Work At FEMA Headquarters

Friday Morning Open Thread: Putting in the Work At FEMA Headquarters

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When doing the right thing is also doing the smart thing…

Peter Baker: What, no paper towels to throw? Doesn’t Biden understand photo ops?

Reader Interactions

184Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    clear undertone to the media of “I can’t expect you people to otherwise reasonably cover the work 1000s of professionals are doing on the ground, so here is your big shiny object, you dumbasses.”

    Undertone? You mean he didn’t say that out loud? Very un-Bidenlike.

  5. 5.

    Kay

    I don’t even know what to say anymore. They’re now planning on imprisoning all the women who are currently inside conservative jurisdictions.

    More than a year after Roe v. Wade was overturned, many conservatives have grown frustrated by the number of people able to circumvent antiabortion laws — with some advocates grasping for even stricter measures they hope will fully eradicate abortion nationwide.
    That frustration is driving a new strategy in heavily conservative cities and counties across Texas. Designed by the architects of the state’s “heartbeat” ban that took effect months before Roe fell, ordinances like the one proposed in Llano — where some 80 percent of voters in the county backed President Donald Trump in 2020 — make it illegal to transport anyone to get an abortion on roads within the city or county limits. The laws allow any private citizen to sue a person or organization they suspect of violating the ordinance.
    Antiabortion advocates behind the measure are targeting regions along interstates and in areas with airports, with the goal of blocking off the main arteries out of Texas and keeping pregnant women hemmed within the confines of their antiabortion state. These provisions have already passed in two counties and two cities, creating legal risk for those traveling on major highways including Interstate 20 and Route 84, which head toward New Mexico, where abortion remains legal and new clinics have opened to accommodate Texas women. Several more jurisdictions are expected to vote on the measure in the coming weeks.
    “This really is building a wall to stop abortion trafficking,” said Mark Lee Dickson, the antiabortion activist behind the effort.

    Women really deserve an apology from all the people who minimized this.

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    I visit Cedar Key fairly often — it’s about an hour and change from where we live. There’s one business on Dock Street that is plastered with anti-Biden and pro-DeSantis signs. I avoid the place because they obviously don’t want my business.

    But during a stay with friends there last November, one friend spotted an item she was interested in and wandered into the store, so I followed her. She noticed an anti-Biden sign inside and unfavorably remarked on it to me. The proprietor overheard, took offense and got into a shouting match with my friend until I pulled her out.

    This morning while looking at post-storm photos, I saw that shop wrecked. You could still see a tattered anti-Biden sign on the front. I bet the wingnut asshole who runs it will be happy to take Biden Bucks to rebuild!

  8. 8.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: Antiabortion advocates behind the measure are targeting regions along interstates and in areas with airports, with the goal of blocking off the main arteries out of Texas and keeping pregnant women hemmed within the confines of their antiabortion state.

    Should be in red bold, 72-point type on the headlines of every American newspaper.  Complete insanity.

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Consider my Fruede to be thoroughly schadened:

    As he attempts to meet mounting legal fees incurred in large part through his work for Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani will reportedly not get “a nickel” from one billionaire who backed his campaign for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination – or, apparently, much from many others previously big donors.

    “I wouldn’t give him a nickel,” the investor Leon Cooperman told CNBC. “I’m very negative on Donald Trump. It’s an American tragedy. [Rudy] was ‘America’s mayor’. He did a great job. And like everybody else who gets involved with Trump, it turns to shit.”

    Brian France, a former Nascar chief executive, was slightly more conciliatory. But he told the same outlet his wallet was staying shut: “I was a major supporter of Rudy in 2008 and at other times. I’m not sure what happen[ed] but I miss the old Rudy. I’m wishing him well.”

    Donald Trump happened to Rudy.

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    On a side note, I was sitting in my car dealer’s waiting room and the TV had been left on some Newsmax-ish channel.  I was alone in there, so I grabbed the remote and switched it to ABC News just in time for President Biden’s remarks to the FEMA folks.

    It was nice not having commentators, pundit panels, or anyone else chiming in to try and tell me what to think.  (In either/any direction!).  Also, ABC then followed it up with…other news.  Non-political news.  Ahhhhh.

    I might have to do that more often.

  12. 12.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It almost doesn’t need to be said at this point but in this as in all of their work, they’re antiabortion people so of course they’re lying to women. They lie constantly. It’s a measure of how little they respect women – how often they blatantly lie to them:

    While the language of the draft ordinance explicitly states that it would apply to people transporting “any individual for the purpose of providing or obtaining an elective abortion,” the mayor, Marion Bishop, said the term “abortion trafficking” did not apply to women who were choosing to get abortions “on their own free volition.”

    “It would be people who were either coerced or undecided, who found themselves loaded onto a van and headed somewhere,” Bishop said in an interview at the vodka distillery he owns downtown.

    Pressed on the contradiction between his statement and the language of the proposal, Bishop acknowledged that what he originally said “may not be totally accurate.”

    Professional anti abortion activists drafted the local proposals before the Texas health care for women ban passed- he knows exactly what it says and does. They just choose to lie to the public about it.

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly: And like everybody else who gets involved with Trump, it turns to shit.

    Great campaign/debate stage line there – it’s there for the taking, GOP candidates!

  14. 14.

    eclare

    Does anyone know if there is a reason Joe sounded out of breath at FEMA?  Disclaimer:  I believe that Joe is in great shape and hate all of these repugnant attacks on him over his age.  Is it just presidentin’ is hard?  Did anyone else notice?

    Eta>totally willing to admit it might just be me.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    REMINDER

    NYC Meet-up

    Sunday, September 3rd, 4 – 8 p.m.

    The Baylander

    Take the A or the 1 subway to 125th Street, then the M125 bus west to 12th Avenue/ St. Claire Place stop (or can walk west). The Baylander is on the Hudson River at 125th street. Open air venue.

  17. 17.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Mind-boggling. This passage jumped out at me:

    Then came the Llano City Council meeting on Aug. 21. Speaking to the crowd, Almond was careful to emphasize her antiabortion beliefs.

    “I hate abortion,” she said. “I’m a Jesus lover like all of you in here.”

    Still, she said, she couldn’t help thinking about the time in college when she picked up a friend from an abortion clinic — and how someone might have tried to punish her under this law.

    “It’s overreaching,” she said. “We’re talking about people here.”

    She’s thisclose to getting it!

  19. 19.

    tobie

    @Kay: The Taliban are preventing women from traveling to countries where they’ve received scholarships to study at a university.

    How is what Texas is doing any different? Essentially pregnant women are no longer permitted to travel out of state, as any travel could be construed as abortion travel and, if nothing else, women could face legal battles for moving across state lines. State ownership of the womb is terrifying

    ETA: I see that offering a ride to a pregnant woman could also result in the accusation of “abortion trafficking” so pregnant women really are stuck in a hellhole.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Conservative women are delusional. They say “everyone” in town  gets along fine except for issues around the far Right takeover of the schools, library and now the ban on women traveling.

    Women are doing just great in Texas unless they want an education, to read freely without a censor, or to travel without a male custodian. Okay doke. Keep telling yourself that, sister.

  22. 22.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    Didn’t the Thirteenth Amendment ban slavery?

    When I become God-Emperor of this place, I’m shipping all those mofos to a nice “resort” at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. The only downside to that: possible sea level rise.

    ETA: I don’t know why, but a John and Yoko song popped into my head. Something about how Woman is the something

  23. 23.

    sdhays

    @OzarkHillbilly: Or maybe nothing happened to Rudy and these masters of the universe are just shit judges of character and shouldn’t participate in politics (or anything, really) at all because they’re so incompetent and shitty.

    “America’s Mayor” put the disaster command center inside the biggest terrorist target in his city, one that had been bombed only years before, so that he could use it for sexual trysts with his mistress. There’s a lot more, but you don’t need to know any more to know that Rudy was a shitty mayor and a shitty person and should have only ever been known as “America’s Shit”.

  24. 24.

    Kay

    @tobie:

    90% of abortions are in the first 12 weeks. How do they know they’re pregnant? They’ll have to surveill and track all women of childbearing age. There would be no other way to know. They’ll be doing trash pulls outside their residences looking for home pregnancy tests.

  27. 27.

    frosty

    @Betty Cracker: This winter we’ll park our trailer at the Low Key Hideaway in Cedar Key for the third time. We like the place, I hope it survived. The Tiki Bar has a great Rum Manhattan if you want to drop by sometime!

    ETA Do you have a link to the post-storm photos?

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    @Princess:

    I read that they’re also concerned about how Moscow Mitch’s (seeming) stroke means President Biden will also have one (or maybe already has had one, but the Deep State is covering it up).

  29. 29.

    Kristine

    @Kay:

    These provisions have already passed in two counties and two cities, creating legal risk for those traveling on major highways including Interstate 20 and Route 84, which head toward New Mexico, where abortion remains legal and new clinics have opened to accommodate Texas women.

    Can a local jurisdiction block travel on interstate highways? It seems to me they are overstepping big time, but IANAL

  30. 30.

    tobie

    @Kay: aaargh. I’m just waiting for the Texas Board of Education to approve routine pregnancy tests for all girls 14 and older. The state owns the womb. It dictates what can be done with it.

  31. 31.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I have deep respect for the 20% of people in these places that voted for Biden.

    The Rethugs will work hard to make sure those persons are no longer classified as “people,” at least not in their Jeebus-loving county.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: “It would be people who were either coerced or undecided, who found themselves loaded onto a van and headed somewhere,”

    Sure, the fascist libtards are going around kidnapping pregnant women off the street and talking them across the country for forced abortions. I suspect he has no idea how stupid he sounds.

  36. 36.

    sdhays

    @tobie: What a good idea! They can wrap genital inspections into the pregnancy tests too so that they can be 100% sure no transgender people are around! //

    I really hope the line that conservatives need to cross in order for them to lose elections in places like Texas is at least close or (hopefully) already crossed. This shit is awful.

  37. 37.

    lowtechcyclist

    @sdhays:

    you don’t need to know any more to know that Rudy was a shitty mayor and a shitty person and should have only ever been known as “America’s Shit”.

    This. And fuck Time Magazine for throwing out their standards for Person of the Year, which their standards say is supposed to be the person who made the biggest difference in the world, for good or for evil.

    Apparently they were still smarting from the outrage when Ayatollah Khomeini was their PoY in 1979, and decided they couldn’t let bin Laden be their PoY in 2001.  So they groped around for a ‘good’ honoree and fucked up by going with Rudy.

  38. 38.

    Kay

    @Kristine:

    In Texas, laws controlling women (and only laws controlling women) can be enforced by any random person:

    While these restrictions appear to violate the U.S. Constitution — which protects a person’s right to travel — they are extremely difficult to challenge in court, said Mary Ziegler, a law professor at the University of California at Davis who focuses on abortion. Because the laws can be enforced by any private citizen, abortion rights groups have no clear government official to sue in a case seeking to block the law.


    Literally anyone     in Texas has more power and autonomy and agency over any targeted womans body than the woman herself.

  44. 44.

    Kristine

    @Kay:

    Literally anyone in Texas has more power and autonomy and agency over any targeted womans body than the woman herself.

    I would look into holding back their federal highway money. There has to be a stick somewhere.

  45. 45.

    tobie

    @sdhays: All this is so beyond the pale. But freedumb = surveillance of everyone/everything I don’t like.

    I wish I had faith that conservative voters would finally say, “This is a bridge too far,” but I don’t. Uvalde overwhelmingly voted to reelect Greg Abbott after his horrific response to the elementary school shooting there. They supported the guy who did nothing, and even praised the inept police, after their kids were mowed down. What is going on?

  47. 47.

    lowtechcyclist

    One nation, divisible: if states can block entry into or exit from their state for reasons like being suspected of being pregnant and wanting an abortion, what can’t they seal off their borders over?

    Part of being one nation, indivisible, is being able to travel unimpeded between states.  ISTM that interfering with that is an unhealthy fraction of the way towards secession.  I can’t see how this can possibly be Constitutional.

  49. 49.

    Kay

     

    I just think women should pay attention to how far this has already gone- they’ve banned exceptions to their laws for rape or incest (or to save the life of rape victim 10 year old girls), women are being refused best practices” modern medical care for miscarriages and high risk births in states like Texas and Florida,  and we now have two states (Texas and Alabama) considering bans on travel for women.

    Relying on an eventual lawsuit under the 14th Amendment, especially with the far Right Supreme Court, seems to me unwise. If there is a panic button it might be time to hit it.

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    There is a clear majority of support for reproductive rights in America.  Vast majorities of Ds, slight majorities of Is, and a significant % of Rs (39% want it legal in most or all cases) – significant enough to peel off many of their voters.

    from 2022:

    Today, a 61% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegalin all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years. The latest Pew Research Center survey, conducted March 7 to 13, finds deep disagreement between – and within – the parties over abortion. In fact, the partisan divide on abortion is far wider than it was two decades ago.

    Support for legal abortion is greater among those with higher levels of education. While majorities of those with a postgraduate degree (69%), bachelor’s degree (64%) and those with some college experience (63%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, adults with no more than a high school education are more divided on the issue: 54% say abortion should be legal in at least most cases, while 44% say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

     

    White evangelical Protestants continue to be opposed to abortion in all or most cases. Nearly three-quarters of White evangelicals (74%) say it should be illegal in all or most cases, while 24% say it should be legal in at least most cases. In contrast, a majority of White Protestants who are not evangelical (60%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases.   Religious “nones” – those who are religiously unaffiliated – overwhelmingly support legal abortion.

     

    ie, the group that is (all-too-slowly) dying out is anti-abortion; the fastest-growing group in America (the “nones”) support reproductive rights.

    It’s just right there for the taking-and-running-with-it, Ds!

  53. 53.

    SFAW

    @artem1s: ​
     
    If Dark Brandon has his own version of Luther, Luther would have said “Grow the fuck up! Pass the spending bill, mofos!”

  55. 55.

    Jeffro

    just before Dobbs, here’s where things stood:

    The new survey did not ask specifically about Roe, but previous Center studies have found that most Americans say the Supreme Court should not completely overturn that decision. The Washington Post, in a separate poll conducted with ABC News last month, found that 54 percent of Americans think the 1973 decision should be upheld while 28 percent believe it should be overturned — about 2 to 1.

    There’s that crazification factor, almost!  And “2 to 1” needs repeating (and repeating, and repeating)

    Also – we don’t hear much about this part, do we?

    While the researchers did find partisan gaps in opinions about the legality of abortion, they also found that people from both parties agree on one issue: Better financial and employment support for pregnant women would curb the number of abortions. Nearly two-thirds of Americans said they believe better supports would reduce the number of abortions, and nearly 6 in 10 said expanding support for parents through better child care or family leave policies would reduce the number of abortions. Roughly 60 percent also said expanding sex education would reduce the number of abortions. The researchers found that each of those had more broad support than using laws to reduce the number of abortions.

    And here I am thinking of any number of D politicians who throw this out there once in a while, but don’t lean into it.  They should!

  56. 56.

    tobie

    @lowtechcyclist: IANAL…but wasn’t the Supremes support for SB8 so important because it basically allowed for vigilante justice? SCOTUS said it’s okay for private citizens to sue anyone who provides abortion services or who assists a person in getting an abortion in contravention of the state’s ban. The SCOTUS decision deeming SB8 constitutional allows for private suits, and it’s the threat of being sued that’s supposed to keep women in their place.

    “The Supreme Court has ruled that federal courts are powerless to protect constitutional rights in the face of a devious state scheme that hands over state enforcement power to private citizens,” says Marc Hearron, Senior Counsel of the Center for Reproductive Rights, who argued the case. “The Court has effectively endorsed Texas’s efforts to subvert the U.S. Constitution.”

  57. 57.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro: ​

    White evangelical Protestants continue to be opposed to abortion in all or most cases. Nearly three-quarters of White evangelicals (74%) say it should be illegal in all or most cases, while 24% say it should be legal in at least most cases. In contrast, a majority of White Protestants who are not evangelical (60%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Religious “nones” – those who are religiously unaffiliated – overwhelmingly support legal abortion.

    That tells me that three-quarters of white evangelicals need to be deported or thrown in jail.

    No, I’m not serious, but sometimes I wonder if the metaphorical (or is it “figurative”?) leopards eating their faces would cause an attitude change.
    Narrator: It wouldn’t.

  59. 59.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Pod Save America says that the House is likely to open an impeachment inquiry into Biden when they come back from the Labor Day recess. If so, that will be interesting. Also infuriating.

  60. 60.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yes, they do. It was entirely predictable that these religious fanatics would do things like this to try to force their religious beliefs about abortion onto all of us. What I wonder is, how will they enforce a law like that on cars traveling through the town? How will they even prove that you’re travelling to get an abortion? They’re nonsensical laws whose only purpose is to scare people. ETA – I’m sure you noticed that it was two women who stopped that from becoming law in that town. They know it’s nuts.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    Kombiz Lavasany
    @kombiz
    18h
    They went from saying, “We’re banning abortion, but we don’t want to actually arrest women and doctors,” to saying, “We’re going to arrest and jail anyone who knew about a woman who wanted an abortion quickly.”
    As all of us dumb shit-libs told you, it would

    Trump actually tipped their hand. Remember “there has to be some form of punishment”?

    The anti abortion movement lie to women. They lied to women about womens ablity to access modern, best practices healthcare after these laws go in and they are now lying to women about their goal – which is to punish women with criminal sanctions.

  63. 63.

    Betty Cracker

    @frosty: I think I know the place — right side of the road on the way into town? I hope it survived too! Cedar Key Fire & Rescue has a ton of photos on their Facebook page here.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    It’s to send a message to women – “we’re watching you and we control your movement” – our bodies.

    It’s intended to chip away at womens autonomy and agency- how they see themselves and operate in the world. It will work, too.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The GOP has no ideals, no vision, no lofty goals. Their only hope is to cover everyone so folks low info voters will say, “Both sides are so corrupt.” The tit for tat with this impeachment could not be more obvious.

  66. 66.

    SFAW

    This discussion (re: the Llano laws) makes me think that, had the J6 insurrectionists been better organized, we’d be living in Gilead right about now.

    Well, actually, I’ve been thinking that for awhile. I’m sure one of the usuals will tell me I’m being hysterical.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Because men aren’t playing any role in the volunteer effort to help women who live in states that have resricted access to health care get health care. It’s all women. Anti abortion lobbyists know this because they’re watching us. They’re aware that women are helping women, that there are networks, and they’re watching them to target them.

    The goal is always, always to control women. To take us back to a time where we had no agency and autonomy.

  69. 69.

    Chief Oshkosh

    When they try to apply this to security inspections at airports, life is going to get interesting.

  70. 70.

    delphinium

    @tobie:

    I’m just waiting for the Texas Board of Education to approve routine pregnancy tests for all girls 14 10 and older. The state owns covets the womb.

    New Texas motto: All your uteri are belong to us

  71. 71.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @SFAW:

    sometimes I wonder if the metaphorical (or is it “figurative”?) leopards eating their faces would cause an attitude change.

    Narrator: It wouldn’t.

    It would not, because they believe their own case is special and the law doesn’t cover it.  They will still believe that after they are punished.  The problem won’t be the law, it will be that someone didn’t recognize that they are a member of the in-group who should never be punished for anything.

    Hell, why do you think they’re so pissed about Trump’s being charged?  The whole principle of It’s Okay If You’re A Republican is being challenged!

  72. 72.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @tobie: They supported the guy who did nothing, and even praised the inept police, after their kids were mowed down. What is going on?

    This was how I felt about Michigan in 2016. The Republicans destroyed the water system of a major city then used its distressed status as an excuse to strip them of self-government. So Michigan, in part, rewarded Republicans with the Presidency.

  74. 74.

    Maxim

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It would not, because they believe their own case is special and the law doesn’t cover it.

    Witness all the forced-birth proponents who go in for their own abortions, and then go back to picketing the clinic.

  75. 75.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Frankensteinbeck: If they can arrest Trump for [diverting government funds for political benefit] and for soliciting crimes from others and for fomenting an insurrection, why, they could arrest anyone…😱😱😱

    Eta: My mistake. He was only impeached and wrongfully acquitted for the government funds. The first arrest was for misallocation of campaign funds.

    So much unethical behavior, so little time.

  76. 76.

    frosty

    @Betty Cracker: That’s the place!​ 
    I’ll take a look at the photos. From the news it sounds like it didn’t get hit as bad as the Weather Channel Doom’n’Gloom stand-ups were expecting.​​

  77. 77.

    AlaskaReader

    @Jeffro: When I get ahold of remotes in places other than my home, (as in your example), I just go ahead and ban or block viewing of several networks, Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Sinclair, etc.

  78. 78.

    J. Arthur Crank (fka Jerzy Russian)

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

    Sure, the fascist libtards are going around kidnapping pregnant women off the street and talking them across the country for forced abortions.

    Wait, am I the only one with a Soros-funded van with mileage reimbursement and a per deim? I just assumed everyone had these. I guess I have been living in a bubble all these years.

  81. 81.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kay: I just don’t understand the argument that the Bill of Rights doesn’t protect a person from the violation of those rights by another private citizen. What is the Bill of Rights worth if yeah, sure the government or an agent thereof can’t restrict your right to travel but any rando who is not an agent of the government can do so?

    Like, that’s kidnapping. It violates your right to freedom of movement, arguably protections against search and seizure. There is no interpretation of the Constitution that says it’s OK for some rando to take those rights away from another citizen.

    I honestly would love to have a window into an alternate reality where TFG won re-election so I could see the SCOTUS reasoning for why the first amendment doesn’t apply to even mild criticism of our dear leader. It would be hilarious but is harrowing to know that we’re as close as we are to that happening.

  83. 83.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @J. Arthur Crank (fka Jerzy Russian): It’s conceivable that the prospective father may try to coerce the mother into an abortion. I doubt the sincerity of any Texas Republican trying to make that argument, but this is actually a good reason why medical privacy is important.

  85. 85.

    Tony G

    @Kay: These psychopaths.  However, how would they actually implement this scheme?  Set up physical roadblocks on all highways and roads that lead out of the state or to an airport — and then arrest any woman at the roadblock who “looks pregnant”?  Or arrest ALL women at the roadblock until a pregnancy test can be administered?  I have a tiny suspicion that this is not a practical plan at all, and is instead a performative stunt to make their idiot followers happy while scaring those hussies and harlots who might consider an abortion in another state.  Meanwhile — good luck running a modern economy in Texas with no educated women.

  86. 86.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Spanky: Won’t surprise me if the war between the sexes turns into a hot, shootin’ war.

    Every night. Sometimes two, three times. That’s how the babies happen; bang, bang, bang.

  87. 87.

    jonas

    @Kay:  Antiabortion advocates behind the measure are targeting regions along interstates and in areas with airports, with the goal of blocking off the main arteries out of Texas and keeping pregnant women hemmed within the confines of their antiabortion state.

    At least they’re not being asked to wear masks. I hear that’s the real tyranny.

  89. 89.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    If they can arrest Trump for [diverting government funds for political benefit] and for soliciting crimes from others and for fomenting an insurrection, why, they could arrest anyone…😱😱😱

    A whole lot of media people are also deeply uncomfortable with the idea that It’s Okay If You’re A Republican might not be true.  Watch them scramble for some reason why “Come on, you can’t charge Trump for the crimes he’s admitted.  That’s crazy!”

  90. 90.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Maxim:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    It would not, because they believe their own case is special and the law doesn’t cover it.

    Witness all the forced-birth proponents who go in for their own abortions, and then go back to picketing the clinic.
    ​

     Yes; it’s been true for decades that this is the case. I’ve linked to this article before; here it is again for anyone who’s interested.

    “The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion: When the Anti-Choice Choose” (and pay attention to the accounts of abusive anti-choicers who vilify the health-care workers whose services they are using):
    https://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml

  91. 91.

    mrmoshpotato

    Reporter: Mr. President, a government shutdown, how would that affect FEMA?

    Biden: It would be a serious, serious problem. I’m hoping that there’s greater maturity to prevent that from happening.  Really?  How stupid are you?

    Fixed, Mr. President.

    (Biden really needs his own anger translator.)

  92. 92.

    Jeffro

    @Mike in NC: Most Republicans want to abolish the IRS and the FBI, so why not FEMA as well?

    “But I didn’t mean to abolish FEMA in my state, just before Hurricane Leopard-Eating-My-Face hit!”  – every MAGA ever

    FAFO, indeed.

  93. 93.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Tony G: ​

    However, how would they actually implement this scheme?

    I could see it as a way of allowing husbands/boyfriends/family members to force a woman to carry an unwanted child. They would likely know why the woman traveled out of state, or have enough suspicion to level a law suit. I think the law is performative, a declaration of their evil beliefs rather than something they think they can enforce, but it might be exploited* that way.

    *As in, not the way the creators thought it would be used, but they would love it being used that way.

  94. 94.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Frankensteinbeck: Admitted? Some of these crimes he even committed on camera. It’s like it doesn’t count.

    I’m beginning to believe he could shoot a man live on the 5 o’clock news and he wouldn’t lose any support, media or voter.

  96. 96.

    Doug R

    @Matt McIrvin: This also gets to the heart of bad business/politicians who PUNISH people who don’t “buy” their product.

    A SMART politician helps people who didn’t vote for them, it might change their mind AND it’s the RIGHT thing to do.

  98. 98.

    AlaskaReader

    @Kay:

    Because men aren’t playing any role in the volunteer effort to help women who live in states that have resricted access to health care get health care. It’s all women.

    You mean to say that in all the individuals, private and non-profit clinics, women’s health centers, physicians’ offices, and hospitals in the U.S. and Canada who support the National Abortion Federation, the National Network of Abortion Funds, the Center for Reproductive Rights, Planned Parenthood and their affiliates, there are no men involved?

  99. 99.

    Chris

    @tobie:

    I wish I had faith that conservative voters would finally say, “This is a bridge too far,” but I don’t. Uvalde overwhelmingly voted to reelect Greg Abbott after his horrific response to the elementary school shooting there. They supported the guy who did nothing, and even praised the inept police, after their kids were mowed down. What is going on?

    “When they love their own children more than they hate us, then we’ll have peace.”

    One may or may not agree with Golda Meir’s quote in its original context.  If you apply it to blue staters and red staters, though, it’s bang on.

  101. 101.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Chris: “When they love their own children more than they hate us, then we’ll have peace.”

    One may or may not agree with Golda Meir’s quote in its original context. If you apply it to blue staters and red staters, though, it’s bang on.

    Fascinating.

  102. 102.

    Nelle

    @Kay: There is a volunteer organization of private pilots, mostly men, who are quietly ferrying women who need access for reproductive health care out of states where that access is limited.  Usually from smaller airports to other smaller airports.  No passenger manifests.  At the pilot’s own expense.

  103. 103.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Nelle: There is a volunteer organization of private pilots, mostly men, who are quietly ferrying women who need access for reproductive health care out of states where that access is limited.

    There has to be a provision in the PATRIOT Act about that…

    More seriously, I wonder what I would have to do to get a pilot’s license.

  104. 104.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: ​

    I’m beginning to believe he could shoot a man live on the 5 o’clock news and he wouldn’t lose any support, media or voter.

    I don’t think he would. He’s a Republican. He’s THE Republican, the figurehead representing conservative white men. Punishing him for any crime threatens their status as Elect. The worse the crime, the more you’re directly challenging the principle that they are superior and nothing they do is wrong.

    Caveat: He would lose some support. There are people who don’t think about things until some line is crossed or straw breaks the camel’s back. But for the most part, the people angry he’s being punished now would be angry at him being punished for anything. Absolutely anything.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    @AlaskaReader: When I get ahold of remotes in places other than my home, (as in your example), I just go ahead and ban or block viewing of several networks, Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Sinclair, etc.

    I understand the impulse, but I probably wouldn’t do that.

    Oh who am I kidding?  I couldn’t do that if I wanted to.  I’d screw it up and make those the permanent channels somehow.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @AlaskaReader:

    The people who will be prosecuted are the women who are driving other women to get abortions. That’s why the laws target specific highways. It’s an effort to stop the informal networks of women that have sprung up.

  110. 110.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    It’s a very good question, but a lot of people are so blind it is boggling.  Many more have short memories.  Humans swing back to old behavior without a lot of effort.  So there are probably a chunk of people who will repudiate Trump temporarily when he does something absolutely unacceptable.  Republican congressmen who he tried to have killed, for example.  But then ‘It’s Okay If You’re A Republican’ demands their loyalty again.

  111. 111.

    Doug R

    @sdhays: They mention the Mann Act. But I’m willing to lose that version of the Mann Act if it’s modified to state what’s illegal IN BOTH STATES.

  112. 112.

    Ohio Mom

    Off topic but I see that Eminem has told Ramaswamy to quit using his music. Read that in the Cincinnati paper, which means that happened days ago.

  113. 113.

    tobie

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I don’t know how we get out of this pattern of “break government, then blame government.” I’m in the Philadelphia media market. Gov Shapiro and Pres Biden fixed the collapsed portion of I95 in 2 weeks…and yet even here that accomplishment has been forgotten. No one notices govt when it works. In some ways that’s how it should be. You should be able to rely on public services. But since Reagan that’s been turned around, and the GOP has a strategy of sabotaging govt and then blaming it for failures. That must have been crazy-making to witness in Michigan in 2016.

  115. 115.

    geg6

    @Nelle: ​
     
    Yes, a friend of mine’s husband (I’ll not identify where they are) is involved in a group like this for pilots.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @AlaskaReader:

    What they’re “frustrated” about is women helping other women. The goal is for women to feel helpless- that they need some official org or permission to operate a network. The laws are specifically designed to stop the informal networks that provide transportation. They’re not funded by anyone other than individual women – the drivers themselves- partly because it’s safer for women to operate underground.

  118. 118.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @tobie: I would really like to see more reporting on the work of legislative bodies and local governments. There’s too much of a disconnect between the every day work of government and the shiny object media economy.

    It should be easier to connect politicians with their individual ongoing work, their party’s work, the work of legislative committees, and what it means in brass tacks for the rest of us.

    Hell, half the time it’s a pain in the ass just finding a good explanation of a roll-call for bills being voted on. And I would consider that the minimum.

  120. 120.

    AlaskaReader

    @Kay: I see your cited ‘informal’ networks of these women drivers exist for you but, for instance, men involved in the actions of the Brigid Alliance are not to be recognized.

    Duly noted.

  124. 124.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Ohio Mom: More fascinating, still.

    I know the name, but I’ll have to go remind myself who this individual is. My brain is making a loose association with Israel.

  125. 125.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Man who shot Black teenager Ralph Yarl must stand trial, Missouri judge rules

    Lester’s attorney, Steven Brett Salmon, suggested in earlier court filings that he planned to argue that Lester acted in self-defense, citing Missouri’s “stand your ground” law. Missouri is one of about 30 states with laws that say people can respond with physical force when they are threatened.

    Seeing as Lester was never threatened, I really don’t see how that is going to work.

  126. 126.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro:

    And here I am thinking of any number of D politicians who throw this out there once in a while, but don’t lean into it.  They should!

    One thing I’ve proposed from time to time is single-payer birth control.  If we made sure that all women could have and use the birth control method of their choice, without having to worry about cost, that would surely reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and with it the number of abortions sought for non-medical reasons.

    Maybe the road to single-payer health care in general is too complicated, but ISTM that we could do single-payer just for birth control.

  127. 127.

    AlaskaReader

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Was a time when most newspapers had fairly comprehensive and regular legislative updates, the media monopolies, (mostly conservative), have ended that.

    Informed consumers are no longer desired by those pedaling their brand of ‘infotainment’.  …(in other words, propaganda)

  129. 129.

    lowtechcyclist

    @tobie:

    IANAL…but wasn’t the Supremes support for SB8 so important because it basically allowed for vigilante justice?

    Yeah, that was a monstrosity, to say the least.

    But vigilante justice and freedom to travel between states are two distinct issues, and I can’t see that using the former to do away with the latter isn’t more valid than any other means.

    If people can’t freely travel from state to state, we aren’t one country anymore, we’re fifty of them.  There’s really no getting around that.

  131. 131.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @AlaskaReader: Was a time when most newspapers had fairly comprehensive and regular legislative updates, the media monopolies, (mostly conservative), have ended that.

    Maybe time to run for Congress and do the job in-house.

    Or form a coalition of citizen journalists.

  132. 132.

    smith

    @lowtechcyclist: Before Dobbs , there was already a downward trend in abortions, probably due in part to increased access to birth control. It didn’t do anything to slake the forced-birthers’ desire to control women.

    In addition,making birth control free doesn’t address pregnancies due to birth control failure, or rape, or incest. Nor does it deal with wanted pregnancies that endanger the mother’s life or health, or pregnancies in which the fetus has no chance to live outside the womb.

    Then, of course, there’s the fact that many forced-birthers consider birth control to be just another form of abortion, and they intend to do something about that next.

    Your proposal is an excellent one on its own merits, but it is unlikely to do much about abortion politics.

  133. 133.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    From your quote box:

    Because the laws can be enforced by any private citizen, abortion rights groups have no clear government official to sue in a case seeking to block the law.

    I guess suing the state that passed the law giving enforcement powers to private citizens has already been tried and failed.

  134. 134.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Doug R: While these days the Mann Act is mostly used against pedophiles, it has a long and terrible history of being used to crack down on interracial relationships and anything Anthony Comstock would disapprove of. I’m not surprised it’s being leveraged here.

  135. 135.

    Chris

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    The former Prime Minister of Israel.  In context, she was talking about its Arab neighbors, which is why I noted that it was debatable, at the very least, in its original context.  It stuck in my head because it really pretty well describes blue staters’ situation WRT red staters, though.

  137. 137.

    smith

    @lowtechcyclist: Isn’t that how it got to SCOTUS in the first place, so they could issue that abomination of an opinion? This is why, I think, there may be hesitation to challenge these pregnant women incarceration laws, because we might find out the full extent to which women’s bodies are deemed by the Dirty Six to be property of the state.

  138. 138.

    Kay

    @geg6:

    It’s fine and welcome, but women operating in a red state (or a town like the town depicted in the article) can’t register with any org or accept funding from any org because then there’s a record and they’ll be targeted.

    They can use other methods to reach organizations with bank accounts and non profit filings- subpeonas, records demand, etc. To reach individual, self funded women volunteers they have to block highway travel. It’s safer for the volunteers if they self fund w/in the group. Then they’re just buying gas or paying for a motel room. That isn’t tracked. I don’t think they should accept funds from an abortion linked group. That puts them at risk.

  139. 139.

    cain

    @tobie: going to criminalize while pregnant.

    I suppose you could just put a “pro-life” bumper sticker on your car and then drive over state lines.

    Of course, now that the law is out there – a lot of those “my abortion is an exception” people are going to fuck around and find out.

  140. 140.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @geg6: Also worth noting that all of this shit also targets Transgender Men and NB people too.  And it’s not just this that they are dealing with from this shithole state:

    BREAKING: The Texas Supreme Court just ruled that the state’s discriminatory and unconstitutional ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youth can go into effect immediately.

  141. 141.

    Kay

     

    And I think the womens networks piss them off more than anything. It’s direct defiance- disobedience – and it’s LOCAL. That’s what’s triggering them to propose these laws. There are women in that town who have gone to New Mexico for an abortion, other women helped them, and the mayor is aware of it because he as much as admits he’s watching their movements. How the fuck else would he know why women were using a highway?

  142. 142.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kay: Do you have a list of any more or less under-the-radar orgs people can donate to, to support these efforts from other states?  This shit is so gross and outrageous.

  143. 143.

    cain

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    They’ll have to do it in private because if they did it in public – they’d just embarass themselves. Since there is no proof of anything – it’s just performative ass – while the impeachment of Trump has clear evidence of wrong doing and it is going through the courts.

    Once Hunter Biden goes to jail – there is going to be no interest in anything. People are going to look back at stupid shit like how Hunter’s pornographic images were presented in the House. Good one, MTG!

  144. 144.

    smith

    It’s infuriating that in 2023 we have to resurrect the Underground Railroad to help fugitive women escape to free states.

  145. 145.

    Alison Rose

    I haven’t read many articles about this so I’m asking in good faith — has DeSantis said a single word publicly in thanks or recognition of the Biden admin’s work on this? Anything at all?

  150. 150.

    smith

    @Alison Rose: I’m sure he remembers what happened to Chris Christie’s political career when he hugged Obama after Sandy, so there’s no way he’d even recognize any federal role in hurricane relief.

  151. 151.

    cain

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I have to laugh. Just thinking about how he modified the car so the bull would fit into it is a laugher.

    That said – what better expression of love could their be that you would modify your car to take your best friend with you everywhere?

  152. 152.

    Ruckus

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    donald trump happened to the nation.

    Just goes to show that not all humans have kept their noggins where the sun does shine.

    At least some of the ones that helped pay for him to destroy the nation have zipped their wallets shut. Maybe racism and hate, while still a staple concept of some has shown that it’s not a viable governing policy. One can hope.

  153. 153.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Baud: Biden really should say that to their faces. The Press really needs to be snapped out of the Doomporn Nihilist Gossip Rag it’s turned into.

  154. 154.

    smith

    @Ruckus: I’m guessing it’s the criminality, or more exactly, getting caught at the criminality, that turns them off more than the bigotry.

  155. 155.

    Alison Rose

    @UncleEbeneezer: And from what I know from a friend who has run a fund for years, they are very good at going under the radar as far as delivering funds. The folks at these groups know all too well the level of surveillance and danger they might be in, especially in red states.

  157. 157.

    Miss Bianca

    @AlaskaReader: You sound like the guys I know who used to bitch about “Take Back the Night” rallies being by women, for women. Like, way to miss the point, dude.

    FFS. I will never understand why *some* folks have to go all #notallmen *every single fucking chance* they get.

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    They can’t (and shouldn’t ) accept donations because to be legal donor orgs have to record and file and conduct transactions thru financial institutions – that’s as it should be BUT that would allow the women to be identified and targeted where they live, in red states and counties. Each volunteer funds herself, or women within the group fund an individual drivers trip expenses. Anti abortion extremists like the mayor in the story (and 6 of the 7 local lawmakers) are upset they can’t control local women- the women who they feel they own. After all, they could be (and are) their own daughters, sisters, aunts. THat’s what enrages them. It’s one thing if women in NYC or DC are disobedient and won’t follow orders- it’s another if it’s one of the local women they claim title to.

  159. 159.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Alison Rose:

    has DeSantis said a single word publicly in thanks or recognition of the Biden admin’s work on this? Anything at all?

    It destroyed Chris Christie’s national political ambitions when he did that.

  160. 160.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    They just choose to lie to the public about it.

    They are losing control. They are losing the plot. Their type have been in control in many areas for a very long time. They feel justified to basically live in a time when they controlled – everything. But that time has actually past. This is supposed to be a free country, where we make our choices, ourselves. The conservative powers that shouldn’t be in this country are screaming about losing the powers that they NEVER should have had over others. I believe they know that their time is over and they are grasping at concepts that have way out lived their time, because that concept of control, in a country that is supposed to be based upon an individual’s rights, not on control of others. This continuum of demanding obedience and control is against the entire basis of our founding and principals of this nation. It was wrong 250 yrs ago and it’s wrong now.

  161. 161.

    RaflW

    @Jeffro: I know it’s “tired” to reference the Handmaid’s Tale, but damn if this hemming women in so they can’t travel isn’t exactly what was predicted.

  162. 162.

    Alison Rose

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah. I get the impulse, but while there are some cis men pitching in with these efforts, by and large this is being done by women and trans/nonbinary folks who are the ones whose bodies and lives are at risk. Even among men who definitely support abortion rights, there’s not often much actual work by many of them.

    When I lived in SF and was a clinic escort at PP, over the course of the few years I was there we probably had a total of 150-200 volunteers who would be in the pool for various stretches of time. And I would say maybe a dozen or so were men. So…not very many! Interestingly, most of them were gay men. The first time I had a shift with a guy, I thanked him for doing it, and he said that he didn’t want to sound like a douche, but that he hoped his presence (he was a tall, fairly buff guy) would help to dissuade protestors from getting rowdy.

  165. 165.

    AM in NC

    @Spanky: It already is.  Who is most likely to be shot by a gun? Someone in your own home, and (except for suicide) overwhelmingly that means the bitch getting shot by her man because she just didn’t know her place.

     

    The number one predictor of mass shooters is domestic violence. That’s what these people have in common most often. Hatred of and desire to control women.

  167. 167.

    scav

    @matt: Most of those people have their hands firmly up the baby jebus’s backside and are making his lips flap.  “My sins are forgiven!  Yours are mortal!” They’re convinced they know the very mind and will of God.

  168. 168.

    Subsole

    @Kay:

    Oh, they are far from delusional.

    They think they know how to game patriarchy. And they aren’t about to let you come in and change the rules on them now after all the shit they had to eat to get where they are.

    It is not delusion. It is a cold-blooded, clear-eyed decision to shaft the rest of the country so they can advance themselves.

    An entire fucking political alignment full of Clarences Thomas. The mind positively reels.

  170. 170.

    Paul in KY

    @cain: That would be a ‘pro-tip’: Have your car look like a that of an Anti-Choice zealot. Sorta like cosplaying. Could dress up in most whitebread outfits imaginable, etc.

  171. 171.

    Bill Arnold

    @Soprano2:

    What I wonder is, how will they enforce a law like that on cars traveling through the town? How will they even prove that you’re travelling to get an abortion?

    This is legalized, for-profit, vigilante justice.
    Since profit is involved, there will for example be data entrepreneurs, who (tossing this out as a hypothetical) somehow acquire period data for women of childbearing age (including children), look for missed periods, link to actual persons, and then buy or otherwise acquire open-market location tracking data for the people involved. Maybe filter by political affiliation, or political affiliation of parents. It needn’t be entirely accurate, just enough to cheaply build up a list of potential targets.
    There will also probably be entrepreneurs who buy tips for cheap, or get them for free, and then investigate and monetize them.

    If this happens, then it would also be possible, in fact ethically mandatory, to arrange for a vigilante shop that specializes in suing Republicans.
    Identify an anti-abortion Republican politician who’s daughter or granddaughter misses a couple of periods then does not deliver a baby? Sue them. One has a duty to maximize profits!

  172. 172.

    Elizabelle

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I’m beginning to believe [Trump] could shoot a man live on the 5 o’clock news and he wouldn’t lose any support, media or voter.

    Yes he would.  A lot of these poll respondents are just stubborn about answering, or fucking with the pollsters.

    And too many in the media are whores, plain and simple.

    A lot of this is psy ops.  Lotta awful polls out there, badly constructed and conducted in bad faith.

  173. 173.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Kay:

    Good God, the divorce lawyers alone should be howling over this piece of shit, because I imagine their business is about to take a steep dive.

    I mean, it just goes on, and on, and on. Every abusive asshole of a husband now has yet another way to make his ex miserable. Which means abusive relationships are now harder to escape.

  174. 174.

    scav

    Maybe TX is just prepositioning itself as the future adoption hotspot of the real America.  With all the records these upright citizens will be keeping on the breeding stock, they’ll be able to provide top-notch reports on the pedigree of all the excess births.  It’s just the Range Wars all over again.  The age of free range females in TX is coming to an end.

  175. 175.

    Feathers

    Anti-abortion activists are already noting the license plate numbers of all cars that enter abortion clinics’ parking lots. All they need is cameras with license plate trackers on these highways and they can start filing their lawsuits.

    These jurisdictions are already used to filling their own pockets by abusing asset forfeiture and stopping cars on these highways. Can’t see them stopping now.

  176. 176.

    Chris

    @Bill Arnold:

    This is legalized, for-profit, vigilante justice.

    The ultimate endpoint of modern conservative lawyering is to effectively deputize the entire Republican voter base, so that any Republican anywhere in the country can exert their will over any Democrat (or person presumed to be) anywhere in the country.

  177. 177.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @sdhays:

    They can wrap genital inspections into the pregnancy tests too so that they can be 100% sure no transgender people are around! //

    I know you’re being sarcastic, but one of the leading TERFs in the UK has said the that 0.2% of population who are trans must be “reduced” to zero.

    So yeah, I definitely could see the Christofascists supporting forced abortions is there was reliable way to predict a child would grow up to LGBTQ+. Because that’s what Jeebus would want.

    Seriously, that’s actually be a concern for years regarding scientific research into whether there’s a “gay” gene or a “trans” gene.

  178. 178.

    El Muneco

    @Tony G: The irony being that, in most cases, pregnancy doesn’t visibly show until the second trimester, so even if the law was “15 weeks”, _the vast majority of abortion travelers wouldn’t “look pregnant”_!

  183. 183.

    Bill Arnold

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    one of the leading TERFs in the UK has said the that 0.2% of population who are trans must be “reduced” to zero.

    What percentage of the population is TERFs of this sort? Might be optimal in a utilitarian sense to reduce their population percentage to zero.

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