Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

No Justins, No Peace

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Let there be snark.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War for Ukraine Day 575: President Zelenskyy Met With Congress

War for Ukraine Day 575: President Zelenskyy Met With Congress

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President Zelenskyy met with members of both chambers of Congress today including the leadership. There is no video as he did not make an address.

While he was meeting with him six GOP senators and twenty-three members of the House GOP caucus sent a letter to President Biden indicating they would not support the requested $24 billion supplemental until or unless their conditions are met. Josh Kovensky at Talking Points Memo has the details:

Six Republican senators and 23 GOP House members sent a letter to the White House Thursday saying that, for now, they oppose a request for $24 billion in additional funding from Congress to support Kyiv.

In the letter, Republican lawmakers outline a series of questions they have about the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine’s fight against Russian aggression, including progress in the country’s counteroffensive, how the administration defines victory, and what direct assistance the U.S. military has provided.

“For these reasons—and certainly until we receive answers to the questions above and others forthcoming—we oppose the additional expenditure for war in Ukraine included in your request,” the letter reads.

Zelensky is on Capitol Hill today in an effort to maintain support for U.S. aid to his country. But the letter comes as a flank of far-right Republicans, concentrated in the House, try to tank Ukraine aid.

That group is largely missing from the letter’s list of signatories, though members of the group, including Freedom Caucus Chair Scott Perry (R-PA), have called for the U.S. to reduce its support. The same group of far-right Republicans have been publicly pressuring House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA ), pushing a short term spending bill that does not include additional aid for Ukraine.

You may be wondering why President Zelenskyy didn’t address a joint session of Congress while he was in DC; Kovensky has the answer for that too:

McCarthy told reporters on Thursday that he had declined a request to have Zelensky address another joint session of Congress during his visit, and in a bizarre attempt to bring a rhetorical point into reality, he suggested that Biden should support GOP border funding requests before House Republicans agree to pass more Ukraine aid.

Punchbowl has additional details:

And when Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell asked the Biden administration for a classified briefing on Ukraine prior to Zelensky’s visit, one was quickly added to the calendar. Top military and intelligence officials met with senators for over an hour on Wednesday.

However, according to multiple sources, when the Biden administration offered the same briefing to the House, Speaker Kevin McCarthy’s office turned it down. It may happen at a future date, GOP aides said.

Zelensky also asked to deliver another joint address to Congress, as he did last December. House Republicans denied that request, we’re told.

Emboldened Opposition: But Senate GOP Ukraine skeptics emerged from the briefing even more determined to block future funding for the war effort.

“If there is a path toward something that can be called a victory here, I didn’t hear it,” Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) said afterward. “I’m frankly tired of them actively misleading us about Ukraine.”

Hawley, among the GOP’s most vocal opponents of Ukraine aid, said the Biden administration briefers told senators that funding requests will continue even beyond the current $24 billion ask from the White House.

Two things are going to happen in the next ten days. The first is the government is going to shut down. The second is that US military support to Ukraine is going to stop. This is going to happen because Speaker McCarthy is a small minded, petty vindictive man, as well as being incompetent, weak, and craven. Exhibit A:

 

Circling back, this is going to happen because the majority of the House GOP caucus will quietly do whatever the House Freedom caucus wants them to while the fifteen to twenty “moderates” will publicly tut tut the House Freedom caucus and then do exactly what the House Freedom Caucus wants them to do. It is going to happen because at least a third of the Senate GOP caucus is all in on what the House Freedom caucus is doing and the rest will do nothing to stop them. Though Senator McConnell will give a more in sadness than in anger statement that he doesn’t think government shutdowns help Republicans.

We have video with subtitled in English audio from President Zelenskyy’s meeting with President Biden. Video below, English write up from the President of Ukraine’s website after the jump:

President of Ukraine following the meeting with the President of the United States in Washington: We have exactly what our soldiers need

22 September 2023 – 02:30

In the framework of his working visit to the United States, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy had a meeting with U.S. President Joseph Biden.

The negotiations took place in the White House in a narrow and expanded format.

At the beginning of the meeting, the Head of State thanked the American leader for the fruitful dialogue and strong support of all Ukrainians.

“This is already the third time we have met this year. Thank you for the invitation. Our regular dialogue proves that our countries are true allies and strategic friends. We are very grateful for the vital assistance provided by the United States in the fight against Russian terror. Today I am in Washington to strengthen our coalition to protect our children, families, our homes, as well as freedom and democracy in the world,” Volodymyr Zelenskyy said.

The President of Ukraine told Joseph Biden about his fruitful meeting with congressmen and senators.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Joseph Biden discussed defense support for Ukraine and further cooperation for the benefit of both countries and the world.

“Today, we have achieved important results. We have agreed to work out a number of strategic decisions that will allow us to prevent any new aggression against Ukraine and our people,” the Head of State said and added that it would be one of the results of the G7 Joint Declaration and bilateral security arrangements.

In addition, according to the President, new agreements were reached that will boost Ukraine’s defense capabilities.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy thanked the President of the United States for announcing a new powerful package of assistance to Ukraine.

“It is a very powerful package. It is exactly what our soldiers need now,” the Head of State stated.

He expressed hope for further support from the United States in enhancing the protection of Ukrainian skies, expanding opportunities for grain exports, implementing the Peace Formula, and holding the Global Peace Summit.

“I thank you, your team, the Congress, as well as journalists for spreading information to the public, to the world, for sharing the truth about these tragic events, about this Russian aggression. Thank you very much, Mr. President, for this warm meeting with you,” the Head of State said addressing Joseph Biden.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy noted that today’s talks were powerful and important.

The teams of the two leaders will continue to work on the speedy implementation of the agreements reached today.

Despite what appeared to be positive movement, President Biden has decided to continue to NOT provide Ukraine with ATACMs:

President Zelenskyy also met with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin:

And presented a wreath at the September 11th memorial at the Pentagon:

Instead of the cost, here is the reward for the risks taken:

Russia opened up on Ukraine overnight again.

Kherson:

Vyshneve:

As a result of the latest missile strike by russian terrorists, the @PepsiCo factory in Vyshneve, Kyiv region, was devastated. PepsiCo is listed on the list of war sponsors since it still operates in russia. They paid for the missile that destroyed their facility with their taxes in russia.

Kyiv:

Cherkasy:

The Surovikin line in Zerbove, Zaporizhzhia Oblast. The line of fortifications  runs through southern and eastern Ukraine:

Robotyne:

Like you all, Oleksiy Sorokin of The Kyiv Independent has concerns over what Ukraine is doing in the dispute with Poland over exporting grain:

I went into this a few weeks back when The Financial Times took a deep dive into the issues posed to EU member states agricultural sectors by Ukrainian grain exports. You may recall that the EU has established several committees to try to figure out how to proceed before Ukraine is admitted to the EU in order to prevent just these problems from occurring. The reality is that it is going to take a long time to get this sorted because it requires the EU to rethink their own internal agricultural policies and how the EU’s and its member states’ agricultural sectors are organized.There is not an easy or quick fix here on the EU side, so the fact that they’ve begun working on it is good. The reality though is it is going to take a long time to develop a way ahead here, which is going to slow down Ukraine’s ascension into the European Union.

I think part of the reason that Ukrainian officials are being combative here is that from their perspective it is Ukrainians dying and Ukraine being slowly bombarded into rubble and dust to keep Russia out of Poland, the Baltics, and other parts of the EU. As such, and despite Duda seeming to spoil for a fight with Russian, allowing Ukrainian grain and other agricultural imports is a small price for the EU and its member states to pay in exchange.

You may be asking how sanctions are working:

 

Volume up!

Meet Bohdan from the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade and his Trembita.
This folk instrument, popular in the Ukrainian Carpathians, serves as a means for mountain shepherds to communicate across distances exceeding 10 kilometers. Surprisingly, the Trembita’s enchanting melody resonates beautifully even in the vast Donetsk steppes.

That’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron.

A new video at Patron’s official TikTok!

@patron__dsns

4 відтінки Патрона :)

♬ original sound – TheBoredBitch

Here’s the machine translation of the caption:

4 shades of Patron :)

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

46Comments

  1. 1.

    Gin & Tonic

    There’s a line in the Ukrainian National anthem about our enemies dying like the morning dew in the sunshine. That is precisely what is happening to President Biden’s goodwill in Ukraine as a result of this incomprehensible ATACMS policy.

  3. 3.

    Alison Rose

    I’m almost afraid to ask this, both because I don’t know if I really want to know the answer and because I don’t want to sound like I’m implying the Ukrainians can’t do anything without our aid, but…what are the likely outcomes of US aid and support being cut off? I don’t expect other countries will be willing or even able to compensate, at least not immediately. And I’m extremely worried about what that means for Ukraine. And it is galling beyond belief that these Republican monsters are whining about the pace of the counteroffensive, and their solution is to pull back aid as though somehow that will make it better??? If we had given Ukraine what they asked for from the beginning, there might not even be a need for a counteroffensive by this point.

    I’m just…scared. And angry. And I feel helpless. And none of that does the Ukrainians any good.

    Thank you as always, Adam. I know some days the thank-yous probably don’t mean much, but still

    ETA Zelenskyy just posted a quick address. He seems to be keeping up a positive mindset, but I wonder how difficult that must be right now.

  4. 4.

    Jay

    Gitanas Nausėda
    @GitanasNauseda
    8h
    I call on Presidents 🇵🇱@AndrzejDuda & 🇺🇦 @ZelenskyyUa to resolve current tensions between Poland & Ukraine.

    We are partners & friends, we are the Lublin Triangle that always stands together.

    All issues can be solved through open dialogue. Lithuania is ready to facilitate.

    https://nitter.net/GitanasNauseda/status/1704908502525960215#m

    Bulgaria has also stepped up.

    Apparently, the EU, has just now, started discussions with it’s members States, about a regulatory framework to prevent cross border shipments, supposedly for export, being diverted to the domestic market for profit.

  5. 5.

    RaflW

    I didn’t think I could loathe Sen. Josh Hawley more, but he manages to be ever more horrible. Far too many awful people seem to have collected themselves in Missouri (or sorted themselves over to Johnson Co. KS in my extended family’s case), so MO votes for shitstains like him.

  6. 6.

    Jay

    Devana 🇺🇦
    @DevanaUkraine
    14h
    Zelensky, Duda and Nauseda met in New York and talked about grain, LRT.

    The President of Lithuania said that the differences between the two countries will be resolved as soon as possible. He also discussed with the presidents of Ukraine and Poland the facilitation of grain transportation through Poland and the increase of transit through Lithuania in order to reduce pressure.

    https://nitter.net/DevanaUkraine/status/1704830840994226592#m

  8. 8.

    japa21

    I mentioned before that I have sensed a recent change in tone from Tatarigami_UA. He/she is almost sounding giddy. Not in a real sense but in a comparative sense.

  9. 9.

    catfishncod

    I’m about one-third of the way into Moscow Rules, and while I still don’t agree, I understand why Dr. Silverman wanted a massive forward deployment of NATO assets just before the initial Kyiv campaign: it was literally the only move that the Russian state would be unable to misinterpret, and just as literally, the only move that would be treated as an honest signal.

    I believed then and believe now that sufficient reason existed to choose other paths— but fear of escalation, or indeed of any immediate response by the Russian state, was not one of them. Considered in isolation, it would have been the optimum move.

    @Mike in NC: Sure they would, for the same reason Russia insists everything it does is defensive: because it doesn’t fit their self-image. They might admit they like certain things done in Russia (like the anti-LBGTQ+ antics that are being done primarily for their effect on MAGA America).

  11. 11.

    Alison Rose

    @Adam L Silverman: It had just gone up when I posted my comment, maybe it will be on the official website soon? This is the text from his post, but it’s not the full transcript:

    It was a very important visit to Washington, with very significant results.

    I met with President Biden and his team. There is a new defense package: air defense, artillery, shells, engineering equipment.
    There is also a long-term agreement – we will work together for Ukraine to produce the necessary weapons together with the United States.

    This is a new level of our unity! Co-production in the defense industry with the United States is a historic thing. A new industrial base, new jobs for both our nations. In particular, Ukraine will be able to produce air defense systems. We are preparing to create a new defense ecosystem together with the United States to produce weapons to further reinforce freedom and the protection of life together.

    This will yield global positive results. Thank you, Mr. President Biden!

    I thank the Congress – both parties, both houses. Today, I started my day in the American capital with the Congress – with very frank, detailed conversations. I felt trust – trust that is always the basis of unity. There were clear, straightforward questions from members of the House of Representatives and senators. There were straightforward answers.

    There were meetings today at the Pentagon as well – important conversations about defense support.

    We keep working to strengthen Ukraine. Thank you to everyone who helps us! Glory to all our warriors!
    We will definitely prevail!
    Glory to Ukraine!

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    @Alison Rose: The bomb throwers always throw their tantrums before the deadline – that’s when they get the most attention.

    We’ve been here before.

    Reuters (from July 20):

    WASHINGTON, July 20 (Reuters) – The U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly on Thursday against an effort to tie military aid to Ukraine to NATO members’ defense spending, despite 13 Republicans backing the bid from Republican Senator Mike Lee to restrict U.S. aid to Ukraine.

    The 100-member Senate opposed the amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, by 71 to 13.

    The few bomb throwers in the House don’t have all the power.

    I don’t know the future, but I expect that some way will be found to muddle through until the Democrats have the majority in the House again in January 2025. (Maybe something like the proposed “commission” that will look at
    and somehow recommend making giant federal budget cuts.) The muddling through won’t be pretty, but any shutdown will likely be fairly short, and Ukraine will continue to get substantial US support.

    We’ll see.

    Slava Ukraini!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  14. 14.

    YY_Sima Qian

    The agricultural sector is a fight Ukraine will have w/ Poland & other CEE countries during EU accession, whether Ukraine stays quiet now or not.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Alison Rose: Here’s the video followed by a machine translation of his remarks.

    I wish you health, dear Ukrainians!

    It was a very important visit to Washington, with very significant results.

    I met with President Biden and his team. There is a new defense package: Air defense, artillery, shells, and engineering equipment.

    We have a long-term agreement that we will work together to ensure that Ukraine produces the necessary weapons together with the United States.

    This is a new level of our unity! Co-production in the defense sector with the United States is a historic thing. A new industrial base, new jobs for both our nations. Ukraine will be able to produce, in particular, air defense systems. We are preparing to create a new defense ecosystem together with the United States to produce weapons to further strengthen freedom and the protection of life together.

    This will have global positive results. Thank you, Mr. President Biden!

    Thank you to the Congress – both parties, both houses. Today I started my day in the American capital with the Congress, with very frank, detailed conversations. I felt trust – trust that is always the basis of unity. Clear, frank questions from members of the House of Representatives and senators. Straightforward answers. It is a priority for Ukraine to have the necessary transparency in our relations with America.

    There were meetings at the Pentagon today, too – important conversations about defense support. Important agreements were reached.

    Government officials had a lot of work to do. In particular, today the Ministry of Strategic Industry, Minister Kamyshin, signed cooperation agreements with three key associations. More than 2,000 defense companies are American companies. We are engaging them to work in Ukraine. We have a memorandum on energy cooperation. Today we discussed fundamental things about Ukraine’s recovery from the fighting.

    We also discussed strengthening the institutions of our state to clear Ukraine of any hostile and corrupt influences. There is a value-based decision to return to Ukraine the artifacts stolen by the occupiers – items from the Scythian period.

    The First Lady had her own important events today. She met with the First Lady of America, Jill Biden. And Georgetown University – meeting with students, expanding our cultural diplomacy. The 40th Ukrainian bookshelf. Then in the evening, together with Olena, we addressed all Americans – political leaders, members of Congress, and ordinary Americans who have done so many extraordinary things to help our people, Ukrainian children, our Ukrainian families, and our soldiers. Thank you, United States, thank you, America!

    And we continue to work to strengthen Ukraine. Thank you to everyone who helps us! Glory to all our soldiers!

    We will definitely win!

    Glory to Ukraine!

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: Bowles-Simpson 1 almost destroyed the Federal government because of its effects on the civil service. The damage it did, by training the civil service hiring system in all the wrong ways, is still being felt. I can tell you that the on the DOD side it has turned into a protect your buddies who are retiring in uniform hiring system. The results are terrible and produce absolutely bad outcomes for the US because we have people in civil service billets in the DOD and the Services who should not be in those positions while significant subject matter expertise is prohibited from ever applying.

    Doing a second one would just completely kill the civil service.

  18. 18.

    Yarrow

    Wondering if the ATACMs decision is somehow tied to the looming government shut down. Possibly leaving the option open to be able to do something if the shut down gets prolonged.

  19. 19.

    Dan B

    What the GOP is doing stems from what Murdoch and the GOX spinoffs did to the American right.  They’re now all in fir authoritarian dictatorship because they believe it will eliminate the horrors of minorities. having visibility and power in the USA.  People like Josh Hawley R- Moscow want to be like Putin.  My skin crawls and I fear for Ukraine and the USA.

  20. 20.

    teezyskeezy

    As usual, update appreciated, and, as usual, it brings together enough enraging news that it becomes difficult to properly express one’s frustration at Russia, the GOP, and the whole global right wing authoritarian movement in a way that conforms to the rules of decorum Adam condones.

  21. 21.

    BellyCat

    Do not the GOP members realize that funding Ukrainian defense benefits their paymasters — those who economically benefit most from the military industrial complex?

  22. 22.

    Bill Arnold

    New York Post Editorial Board (The New York Post is Murdoch-owned):
    Kevin McCarthy made a huge mistake in dissing Ukraine’s Zelensky (New York Post, Post Editorial Board, Sep. 21, 2023)

    Speaker Kevin McCarthy dissed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Thursday, not only refusing to OK a joint address to Congress, but even forcing the visitor to meet with House Republicans off the chamber’s floor.
    Bush league, Kevin.
    …
    More important: Russia’s imperialist war of aggression needs defeating.
    If the Kremlin wins, it’ll move on to bullying other neighbors in Central Europe, threatening NATO members and risking a conflict that would draw in US troops.

    This on the day that Rupert Murdoch steps down and Lachlan Murdoch fully takes over.
    I’d add “genocidal revanchist” (or similar) to “imperialist war”, but it’s a start.

  23. 23.

    Adam L Silverman

    @BellyCat: The paymasters are not the big defense and intel companies. If you look at the major donors to both GOP politicians and to conservative groups, organizations, and causes, you’re dealing with people who have not made their money making weapons or putting butts in seats.

  25. 25.

    teezyskeezy

    @Bill Arnold: Newscorp hasn’t been completely against helping Ukraine before today though.  It’s going to take a few months at least to really see if there are any real shifts in coverage.

  26. 26.

    teezyskeezy

    @Adam L Silverman: Cannot or may not? Don’t take that as pointless flippancy I’m genuinely curious if you’ve imposed certain opsec conditions on yourself that make it technologically impossible to access facebook right now or if there are  rules and requirements of your employ/service that make it ill advised.

     

    (note: heavily edited this comment for clarity)

  27. 27.

    Adam L Silverman

    @teezyskeezy: I don’t have and never have had and never will have a Facebook account. So that makes it near impossible to access even non-private Facebook pages. I can’t access instagram at all.

  28. 28.

    Carlo Graziani

    Tatarigami’s analysis is electrifying. ISW seems (more cautiously) to be assessing matters very similarly.

    And, for the first time, today there are no reports that I see of renewed Russian attacks at the Orkhiv salient base. Which is my principal leading indicator of breakthrough—when the Russians need reinforcements to patch up a breach at the tip of the salient, one would expect them to recall the forces closest and in best communication with the breaking defense, which would be the forces attacking the salient base. One day of attacks there not renewed is only a weak signal, but it’s something to keep watching.

    And, the possibility of a breakthrough at least can give hope of delighting in the huge shit sandwich that will be choked down by the likes of Hawley, when presented with dramatic war progress that he desperately hopes cannot occur…

  29. 29.

    wjca

    @BellyCat: Do not the GOP members realize that funding Ukrainian defense benefits their paymasters — those who economically benefit most from the military industrial complex?

    In a word, No.  You credit them, at least the RWNJ Caucus, with more awareness of the real world than they possess.

  30. 30.

    Chetan Murthy

    @wjca: Chewing this over, it occurs to me that maybe what’s going on is that sure/sure/sure the GrOPer Congresscritters understand that the defense companies will benefit from Ukraine arms aid.  But that won’t prevent primary challenges from their right, if they don’t toe the line on this.  And that’s enough to get them to vote against aid.  And why is the line set there?  B/c of TFG, and Russia’s corruption of GrOP leadership via dirty money (and probably kompromat).  It’s just more of what Putin did in 2016: he realiized that a small (amazingly small) investment in the GrOP ticket could get him massive returns, b/c he’d be adding his money to an already-large pot of money from traditional GrOPer donors.

    I think it helps that GrOPer pols know that they need to embrace white supremacy/Christian nationalism, and that’s what Vova is selling too.  I mean, Raytheon is gonna give $$, but they’re not gonna help you turn out your base directly, whereas Vova *does* help turn out your base, with all his information operations.

    OK, I’m spitballin’ here.

  31. 31.

    Carlo Graziani

    @wjca: Quite. Class analysis is utterly bankrupt as a framework for understanding U.S. politics. Imagining this to be a Marxist-style conflict of socio-economic classes is very quaint, and not at all to the point.

    The fault lines in our politics are tribal, not economic.

  33. 33.

    BellyCat

    Historically, the military has primarily voted GOP, no? Has this pattern changed sufficiently to reject the military vote or are GOP members simply too stupid to realize they burning yet another election  bridge. (Rhetorical question, I realize).

  35. 35.

    YY_Sima Qian

    The breach of the main Russian defense line is a major development, & happened much more quickly than one might have expected given the time it took to breach the 1st line. Maybe the Russian did attrit too much of their forces in the area to defend the 1st line. Now we wait to see if the Ukrainian Army still has enough combat power to turn the breach into a breakthrough, & exploit that breakthrough.

  36. 36.

    YY_Sima Qian

    OT: India just stopping processing visas to Canadian citizens, & have required Canada to reduce diplomatic staff in the country. The former will probably impact Canadians of Indian  descent the most.

    It seems Modi wants to emulate Xi era China’s assertive foreign policy, back by late Jiang/early Hu era national power. He also seems to be expecting Israel/Saudi Arabia treatment – do whatever he wants, & no substantive pushback by the U.S. & most of the West.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    We have 3.5 million Indian Nationals in Canada, on student Visa’s,

    many who have brought their families over as well on a visa. the total is 9.6 million.

    That is a game that Modi probably should’nt play.

    Phrabinder , ( nice guy, smart) is here on a student visa. 2 years to go for his Masters in Electrical Engineering. His Mom, Dad and 2 sisters are here, piggy backed off his Student Visa. They don’t have Permanent Residency Status, or Citizenship. His Mom, Dad and 2 sisters are allowed to work full time, and have jobs, not great jobs, but,…….

  38. 38.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Jay: Jay, obvs.  I want to believe you, but those numbers sound really high.  Canada has <40m people, right?  And Google tells me that Canada has 1.86m *residents* of Indian descent — you’d think that that would include those on student and other visas?

  39. 39.

    Jay

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Indian Student visa’s dropped to 1.9 million in 2021, (Covid), climbed back up to 2.3 in 2022, and exploded this year.

    SWMBO works at SFU.

    Indian “Residents” are people who have a Permanent Resident Visa, (like a US Green Card), people on the path to citizenship, (ususaly).

    All other visa’s are counted differently.

  40. 40.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Jay: I don’t think Canada will retaliate against Indian citizens on Canadian visas. Canada wants to benefit from the brain drain from India & other developing countries, not to mention Indian international students paying international tuition rates help to subsidize the Canadian tertiary education sector.

    However, how well Canada withstands Indian attempts at coercion will in large part depend on whether the U.S., the UK & other parts of the West show substantive solidarity (beyond quiet rhetoric) w/ Canada & together demand India cease & desist, or would the U.S. seek to have everyone move on ASAP & return to the more important task of containing China.

    When Canada arrested Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou (daughter of Huawei’s founder Ren Zhengfei) while transiting through Vancouver, at the request of the Trump Administration, & the PRC held the “Two Michaels” hostage in retaliation, Trump hung Canada out to dry. In fact, he made the case against Meng untenable by suggesting on Twitter that Meng could be traded for Chinese concessions in a trade deal. When the PRC imposed trade restrictions on Australian beef, wine & barley, because Australian PM Scott Morrison suggested that WHO investigators be sent to China to determine the origin of COVID-19, w/ “WMD investigator powers”, Canada & the U.S. were happy to take over the market share lost by Australia. Australia withstood the coercive attempt because the PRC could not impose restrictions on Australian iron ore w/o hurting itself just as much. When the PRC imposed an unannounced ban on EU goods including Lithuanian content, in response to Lithuania allowing Taiwan to open an “unofficial representative office” w/ rather official trappings, there was not much the EU or member states were able or willing do. Fortunately for Lithuania, it did not have high trade dependent (even indirect) on the PRC.

    OTOH, India does not have nearly as much leverage as China, & does not have Israel’s or the Gulf States’ long established & highly effective lobbying operations.

  41. 41.

    Jay

    @Chetan Murthy:

    BTW, Phrabinder told me that the “Plan” was not to go for PRS or Citizenship, (so far) but instead, an SFU Masters was salary wise, worth 10X that of an Indian Degree, to Indian Tech Companies.

    So the plan right now, is to get his degree, go back and earn millions of rupee’s a year.

  42. 42.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    We will see what happens. Student visa’s are probably last on the list of retaliation, but if the PCP wins, (what, Fentanyl was already taken as a Political Party name?), all bets are off.

  43. 43.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Jay: By PCP you mean the Conservative Party of Canada? A party that calls itself Progressive Conservative must have been constantly in identity crisis.

  44. 44.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    They were the Conservative Party,

    then the Progressive Conservative Party, (socially liberal, economically conservative)

    Then, internal and external coups (Reeeeeeeform)

    Then Harper, etc, now Pollivieu,

    They are running the same platforms as the US MAGAt’s,( anti vax, Qanon, trans, Drag Queens, abortion, DSI, Nazi’s, etc)  because they have the same “advisors” and Billionaire backers.

    Fuck off USA, keep your crazy south of the border.

  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: My take on Bowles-Simpson is a little different. It kicked the can down the road, it didn’t produce a final report accepted under its own terms, and the resulting bill was rejected by the House.

    The plan released on December 1, 2010, fell short of a supermajority on December 3, with 11 of 18 votes in favor.[1] Voting for the report were Bowles, Coburn, Conrad, Crapo, Cote, Durbin, Fudge, Gregg, Rivlin, Simpson, and Spratt. Voting against were Baucus, Becerra, Camp, Hensarling, Ryan, Schakowsky and Stern.[35]

    On March 28, 2012, Representatives Jim Cooper (D-TN) and Steve LaTourette (R-OH) put a bill modeled on the plan, with, according to analyst Ezra Klein, “somewhat less in tax increases,” to a vote in the House where it was rejected 382 to 38. 22 Democrats and 16 Republicans supported the bill.[36]

    The Budget Control Act and Sequestration did a lot of damage, of course. That’s what happens when the GQP has too much power. :-(

    I think things are a little different now. I don’t think any fig-leaf Commission would have as much impact this time (the political press is not acting as if the GQP are “fiscally responsible” any more, and Democrats have learned that Sequestration and Austerity are losers and counter-productive. Any compromises that include cuts will be short (not a decade or more), to get the country to the next election, IMHO.

    My $0.02.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: The sequester seriously fucked up a lot of careers, including mine. Anything that even remotely has the chance of leading to a second one should be avoided.

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