Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Books are my comfort food!

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

White supremacy is terrorism.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

You are here: Home / Nature & Respite / Nature / Squishable Early Saturday Morning Open Thread

Squishable Early Saturday Morning Open Thread

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Qualified good news about sea turtle nests in Florida:

I saw hatchlings make their way to the Atlantic once while walking on Jupiter Beach in the moonlight with a friend. At first we weren’t sure what kind of critter was boiling out of the sand — they almost looked like some sort of large bug from a distance. But as we got closer, we could see they were little loggerheads.

We stood at a respectful distance and watched them go. A few got confused by lights on shore and started going in the wrong direction, so we picked those up and escorted them to the water’s edge. You’re probably not supposed to do that, but it seemed like the right thing at the time.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

118Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Reposted for the morning crew.  A Minnesota house district is getting an upgrade.

    According to my feed, Dean Philips will not seek reelection for his House seat. So good riddance.

  2. 2.

    Raven

    I’m heading down to a boat for a 6:00 charter! I’m going by myself and it’s pricey but what the hell, right?

  6. 6.

    Tony Jay

    We stood at a respectful distance and watched them go. A few got confused by lights on shore and started going in the wrong direction, so we picked those up and escorted them to the water’s edge. You’re probably not supposed to do that, but it seemed like the right thing at the time.

    Works as a metaphor for dealing with media-befuddled independents or as a much bleaker analogy for how the coming Revolution will negate the Far-Right threat, depending on your coffee intake and general mood.

    Since Liverpool are playing away at Manchester Cheaty this afternoon in yet another suspiciously early kick-off and I’m going to miss the game, you can put me firmly in the Beta group.

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    so we picked those up and escorted them to the water’s edge.

    I saved a tree from certain death a few days ago. I suppose that doesn’t quite measure up to saving the babies of an endangered species tho. :-(

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    From the Guardian’s bit on Chauvin’s stabbing:

    It is also the second major incident at the Tucson federal prison in a little over a year. In November 2022, an inmate at the facility’s low-security prison camp pulled out a gun and attempted to shoot a visitor in the head. The weapon, which the inmate shouldn’t have had, misfired and no one was hurt.

    Hereby nominated for Obvious Observation of the Year.

  13. 13.

    Spanish Moss

    Eons ago, back when I was in college at FSU, I spent a weekend in Satellite Beach with one of my friends. We went for a walk on the beach at night, and happened upon a sea turtle digging her nest. We sat at a distance and watched her for what seemed like hours. It was so unexpected, and nobody else came along, the experience felt magical. It is a memory that I treasure.

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    @Spanish Moss: My sister saw that once in Melbourne (FL)  and also describes it as a magical experience. I’ve never seen a turtle laying eggs, but I did see a huge one returning to the Gulf of Mexico from Sand Key Beach in Clearwater early one morning ages ago. I think the area is now a park, so hopefully turtles can still use it. There’s so much development now.

  16. 16.

    Princess

    Sounds like Dean Phillips is planning to mosey over to No Labels once he gets done losing in the primary.

  18. 18.

    Tony Jay

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m a shocking jinx where Liverpool games are concerned, so it’s probably for the best. But will I get the degree of appreciation for my sacrifice it deserves? No. No I will not.

    It’s so unfaaaiiiirrr. ;-)

  20. 20.

    Mousebumples

    @Baud: According to my feed, Dean Philips will not seek reelection for his House seat. So good riddance.

    Glad to hear it!

    Talked with my Aunt over the holiday who lives in that district – and taught Philips when he was about 10. She said he was a very nice and helpful boy at that age – but she’s excited about the female ob/gyn challenger for his House seat.

  23. 23.

    lowtechcyclist

    Good morning, y’all! I’m still recovering from all the eating. Guess today is putting up Christmas decorations, once the kiddo can be roused to mulch the leaves on the lawn.

  24. 24.

    narya

    Good morning everyone! The desserts were a success with the eaters of them. The pear tart is always a hit–it’s just a very pretty tart. The other dessert didn’t work the way I wanted it to, but it was still pretty damn tasty and was also a hit. (I have so! much! left!) The secret to the tart is making sure to bake it til it’s golden brown. I have a few thoughts on what I could have done with the other dessert–when I worked at the bakery, the owner said it always took at least three iterations to get a new thing right. You can only change one thing at a time, so it really is an iterative process. That said, I do not want to attempt this one again any time soon.

  25. 25.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    I’m sure you’re all familiar with YouTube Shorts. The algorithm offers me a very eclectic mix. A week or two ago there was one with a bunch of guys in swim trunks wriggling their way to the sea like sea turtles. No explanation.

  26. 26.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    I’m sure you’re all familiar with YouTube Shorts. The algorithm offers me a very eclectic mix. A week or two ago there was one with a bunch of guys in swim trunks wriggling their way to the sea like sea turtles. No explanation.

  27. 27.

    caphilldcne

    Good morning. I am in Alabama with my yankee family who retired here after my father’s military career (you get used to warmer winters). And I’m staying extra because of my parents health issues. But today is a lovely Saturday in a 4 day weekend and my alma mater plays that school that shall not be named.  And I hope we win but I also am glad to just watch a game with my father while we’re all still here. Go Blue.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: I don’t think Phillips is a credible threat to play spoiler because the case he’s making for himself is so vague, i.e., “people are saying blah blah blah…” It seems to be a mainstream news narrative-, candidate ego-driven campaign.

    So far, West’s strategy seems much more harmful since he’s deliberately dividing our fragile coalition, and he’s starting at the most critical point for Dems, i.e., his pitch in Michigan aimed at Arab Americans, students and environmental justice voters.

  29. 29.

    Scout211

    @narya: Good morning everyone! The desserts were a success with the eaters of them

    Nice!

    I spent Wednesday making four pies with my six year old granddaughter. That was much harder than it I thought it would be but so much more wonderful than I could have imagined.

    My daughter and SIL brought the turkey as their contribution and it was raved about by all 15 attending. They purchased a smoked turkey from their favorite meat market and all we had to do was heat it up for 4.5 hours still wrapped in butcher paper. It tasted similar to ham and was very moist.  I definitely recommend it.

    I hope everyone has recovered from your food comas and your Black Friday shopping trips.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    Generally speaking, in Congress the right side of the party has been a bigger thorn in our side in recent years.  But in presidential elections, the left side has been more harmful.

    At this point, I really don’t have any respect for environmentalists who aren’t all in on Dems though.

    ETA: Certain elements of the “left” give me newfound respect for Clintonian triangulation.

  32. 32.

    Geminid

    After I had my cornflakes, I took a sip of Clean Energy News. There is a lot going as always. One story that caught my atrention was about an Arizona project by the Gila River Indian Community, with help from the Army Corps of Engineers. They are covering 1000 feet of an irrigation canal with solar panels. Benefits will include a 3% gain in panel efficiency due to the cooling and more importantly, a decrease in evaporation loss.

    This application was first tried ten years ago in India and is being considered in California, which reportedly has 4,000 miles of irrigation canals. Advocates claim that covering all 4,000 miles would save 69 billion gallons of water per year.

    From Interesting Engineering.

  35. 35.

    RaflW

    @Betty Cracker: It has sounded like much of official MN Democratic apparatuses (we call ourselves DFL — Democratic-Farmer-Labor, though the middle part has wanted and labor up on the Iron Range is Trump-tinged) has told Dean to fuck the fuck right off.

    And attacking Kamala Harris might make Republican operative Steve Schmidt (the vodka scion’s campaign manager) get all hot, but Philips is burning bridges at a breakneck pace.

    What a bizarre coda to an extremely middling political career.

    He’ll be a shit-ass “liberal” foil on Fox before ya know it.

  36. 36.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @narya: (I have so! much! left!)

    If you need any help carrying that burden, I am available to help. It may be a great sacrifice for me but one I am willing to make for a fellow jackal.

  37. 37.

    R'Chard

    I think redirecting the wayward turtlets was the right thing to do. They were running on their instinct to head for the light, which instinct is still correct … IF all our coastal communities start to get it about not running bright lights during the hatching season.

  38. 38.

    narya

    @OzarkHillbilly: Duuuude, if you were nearby, I would be rushing to bring things to you–there’s even enough stuff left for two more mini pear tarts. The pumpkin-seed brittle was a particular hit, I have to say.

  40. 40.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: True. I do wonder if Cornel West is a sell-out who’s cynically using the left-most fringe. For years, I took West for a raging egomaniac (the whining about the Obama inauguration “snub”, etc.) but true believer. But this year he gave me cause to doubt his sincerity when he co-authored a WSJ guest column defending the DeSantis admin’s rejection of mainstream college admissions tests in favor of “classic” education testing. He’s on the board of a company that stands to profit from the change, which seems worse than giving speeches to Wall Street groups to me.

  43. 43.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    If he were a centrist, I don’t think anyone would hesitate to call out the conflict of interest, especially if he didn’t disclose the financial benefit he would get.

  45. 45.

    RaflW

    @Geminid: I’ve seen snippets about covering canals with solar. I hope it takes off. Seems like an excellent win-win, and I’d be curious why there’s thought to be downsides — or has it just been straight lack of investment?

    I suppose the canal folks are wary of any risks to their infrastructure, and there could be storm damage to panels that could, in just the wrong way, impede flow or something.

    I’ll also shout into the void that every parking lot south of about 40°N should have solar panel “carports”. It seems like such a total gimme. Tons of generation capacity, and much cooler cars when one gets back in. Saves on pre-chill time for electric cars, too (which could in a sense be charging right from the roof above).

    (I do know that some parking solar has happened – we need so much more!)

  47. 47.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Not really in response to your comment, but this triggered one of my most vivid memories of 2004 where one news report quoted a Wisconsin man whose main issue of concern was the environment and was thus voting for noted environmentalist George W. Bush.

  48. 48.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: Yeah, “environmental justice voters” who aren’t all in for Biden-Harris can go fuck themselves. I don’t want to hear them whining when Trump turns the country into a toxic-waste dump.

  53. 53.

    Suzanne

    @RaflW: I agree with you on the solar parking canopies. In my experience with building projects, the hurdle with this is the payback period. Lots of commercial developers don’t expect to own the property long enough to reap the payback. Or they don’t want to charge higher rent to cover the first cost. So, even in Phoenix, where it makes the most sense of anywhere in the damn country, it was not a common thing. There’s going to have to be significant incentives or regulations to get people to do it.

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    @RaflW: Great idea (says a person who has had to resort to oven mitts to touch the steering wheel in a car that has been baking in the sun for 8 hours).

  58. 58.

    Ben Cisco

    Good morning all!!

    At home, stuffed with leftovers and gearing up for the Iron Bowl later today. 🏈ROLL TIDE!🏈

    I hope all is well with you and yours.

  59. 59.

    WaterGirl

    @sdhays: I know someone who voted for Trump in 2016 because Hillary doesn’t go to church (she does) and because Hillary is pro-choice.

    Because Trump is totally a believer and is totally “pro-life”.  I feel certain that he hasn’t personally paid for more than a dozen abortions, so that counts as pro-life, right?

  62. 62.

    JAFD

    Good morning, jackals !

    ‘Ti- a beautiful autumn day here in New Jersey.  Trip is planned to market later.  Seeking Stayman or Winesap apples, and a mince pie, delights of yesteryears that seem to have been dropped from the stream of commerce.

    At  spacebiff.com/2023/11/24/doubt-is-our-product/#more-25777,  the estimable Dan Thurot reviews Hollandspiele’s latest game, Doubt Is Our Product.  Methinks a few of you might find that interesting.
    Have great weekend, everyone!

  63. 63.

    sdhays

    @WaterGirl: I wonder if Mr. “Two Corinthians” has ever actually plopped his expansive ass into a pew and listened to a whole sermon of someone else speaking. Almost certainly not as an adult, I think.

    ETA: Although your acquaintance must be thrilled with Dobbs.

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: I was once asked to consider building a masonry outdoor pizza oven, and was shown pictures of some fancy ones. The smallest oven must have weighed half a ton or more. One of these would probably sink out of sight if built on your land. But you’ll probably go with metal.

    I would be a willing test subject though, if you want to try your outdoor pizza out on an objective third party

  65. 65.

    JPL

    @sdhays: When in office, his family marched to church on Easter Sunday but that was during Covid.   Also he always married in a church, so assume you need one hand to count on.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    @sdhays:

    It’s interesting that the media always showcases these people.

    I don’t recall the media ever interviewing someone who says they’re going to vote Dem because they don’t like gay people, for example.

  67. 67.

    Ohio Mom

    @RaflW: The Cincinnati Zoo has a huge canopy of solar panels over the parking lot. It’s lovely on sunny days, after you have traipsed through the zoo, to have a not-boiling hot car to get into.

    I assume the panels save the zoo money but even if they are still paying them off, they show the public that the zoo is committed to protecting the environment. Amplifies their conservation messaging.

  69. 69.

    Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Built one. Clay, wood fired, dry heat (750f) is the key. Sand mound, cover with clay, dig out the sand when the clay has dried, fire it up, patch the cracks.

    Great for traditional pizza, ( thin crust, Durham wheat, slight char) and rustic breads.

    Because reasons, a bunch of places here try to mimic a wood fired oven with gas, does not work.

  71. 71.

    lowtechcyclist

    I can’t blame the kids for not knowing all the history and seeing, for instance, that in terms of concern for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, the Biden Administration has gone miles beyond where any previous Administration of either party had gone.  If all you’re aware of is the past few years, it’s easy to look at what’s going on and conclude that we should be doing a lot more.

    But Cornel West has been around. He knows the history. I can only conclude that he’s a fucking cynic who’s using this issue for whatever his own presumably ego-driven purposes are, and to hell with what might be best for the Palestinians because assuredly a Trump Administration wouldn’t give a damn about their well-being.

  72. 72.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: There is a lot of open land at airports, and solar panels are now beginning to be installed on these parcels. I believe Dulles Airport has a project like this. I don’t know if they are covering parking lots with solar panel canopies, but they’ll probably get around to that also.

  73. 73.

    Steeplejack

    @JAFD:

    I, too, have been mourning the fading of mincemeat pie from culinary life. As a kid I thought it was a normal thing—because whatever your own family does is normal—but as an adult I have realized that mincemeat pie seems to be a regional thing—possibly Southern, possibly rural.

    And it’s losing ground. I was mildly lamenting this at Thanksgiving dinner, and in the ensuing discussion I realized that one young guy in his 20s thought I was talking about something like shepherd’s pie.  (Mincemeat.) I consoled myself with a second helping of pumpkin pie. I hope that’s American enough for everybody.

  74. 74.

    RaflW

    @topclimber: Car dealers certainly consume way more watts per sq meter than any other parking lots, the way they’re lit up like full daytime. So unfortunately, I think they’d be the last to do solar carports, except maybe for their back lots. Can’t have shadows, people must see all the shiny cars from every angle, including space!

  78. 78.

    Steeplejack

    @sab:

    I used to think it was a Southern thing (both of my parents were from Tennessee), but now I think it’s more of a small town/​rural vs. urban thing.

  80. 80.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Jay: Coal ovens for pizza are a thing around southern New England. Commercially, that is. Supposedly get around 1,000 degrees.

  82. 82.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Steeplejack: ​
     

    My wife used to order jars of mincemeat pie filling from Vermont Country Store, but they stopped selling it. She’s been making it from scratch since then. Her dad really likes mincemeat pies, so we bake one for him every Christmas.

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @lowtechcyclist: The google is our friend:

    Cob is an ancient natural building material consisting of clay, sand, and straw in varying proportions to create a rock-hard, finished structure. The cob mixture can be used to create a wide array of structures including: cottages, benches, garden walls, ovens, and houses—the possibilities are endless!

    I didn’t want to give an incomplete answer, but as it turns out I was on the money.

  84. 84.

    RaflW

    @lowtechcyclist: West spoke at the annual Unitarian Universalist assembly several years ago. The Ware Lecture has invited luminaries such as Dr. King, May Sarton, Kurt Vonnegut, and scores of others (including a few duds, admittedly).

    West was a joke. He spoke for about half the typical modern speech duration. It was smoke and mirrors, performed in West style but delivering nothing of substance, and then off he went with his honorarium check.

    I’ve been a major sceptic since that 2016 appearance.

  86. 86.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Well…there’s always the Pennsylvania couple who, when asked who they were voting for, said they were “voting for the n*****”

    ETA: But that was more of a reflection of just how badly W. had fucked up.

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    From ‘We will coup whoever we want!’: the unbearable hubris of Musk and the billionaire tech bros, comes this little tidbit:

    But, as chronicled by Peter Turchin in End Times, his book on elite excess and what it portends, today there are far more centimillionaires and billionaires than there were in the gilded age, and they have collectively accumulated a much larger proportion of the world’s wealth. In 1983, there were 66,000 households worth at least $10m in the US. By 2019, that number had increased in terms adjusted for inflation to 693,000. Back in the industrial age, the rate of total elite wealth accumulation was capped by the limits of the material world. They could only build so many railroads, steel mills and oilwells at a time. Virtual commodities such as likes, views, crypto and derivatives can be replicated exponentially.

    That is a scary number.

  88. 88.

    narya

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have a book on building masonry bread ovens–do you want it

    ETA: It’s called “The Bread Builders.” And I got it for free, so would be happy to pass it along.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @narya: Thanx, but no. A bricklayer buddy of mine built one for his house and it was a lot of backbreaking work, which in my current state of decrepitude I try to avoid as much as I can. Besides. the slab where I intend to build it does not have footings and a brick oven weighs more than a little.

  90. 90.

    StringOnAStick

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t have one but got invited to a make your own pizza party at a house that did.  By far the best pizza I’ve ever had!  They made a fermented dough, so a bit of a sourdough then had at least 20 different toppings or sauces to build your own, and a collection of smaller wooden paddles to build on and take to the oven master.

    It looked to me like building a large oven is ideal and that one that is too small would risk burning the edges by being too close to the embers.

  92. 92.

    Gvg

    @Baud: Clinton deserves a LOT more respect than he gets now. He reversed a losing streak, vetoed a lot of bad ideas, and stopped our party from trending too flakey and pure to win. He brought the various regional and special interests back together to work together and support each other instead of have purity tantrums. Also it was the black minority that was pushing for stricter drug laws then. They were the victims and wanted it out of their communities. It didn’t work out like they had hoped, not just because of racism, but also because addiction and treatment wasn’t understood or accepted then. I wouldn’t say it’s a lot better now, just, not quite so naive.

  93. 93.

    Glidwrith

    @Suzanne: Every school I’ve visited in San Diego now has solar parking lots and so does the San Diego Zoo. All new home construction is also required to have it.

  96. 96.

    Trivia Man

    @JAFD: In Jersey I was tickled by the fact that’s it’s free to drive IN but it costs money to LEAVE on almost every road. (I found the free ones!)

  97. 97.

    Gvg

    I have a magical memory of a childhood summer day at crowded Coco Beach on my boogie board and realizing that a small black thing beside me was a baby sea turtle making its way out to sea. No idea why it was only one born, if the middle of the afternoon, perhaps a late hatcher. But no seagull noticed it in the crowd of people. Lots of better lunches to steal maybe. Seemed to work out OK. This is near Cape Canaveral and Ron Jon’s surf shop. Lots and lots of people. I pointed it out to my mother. Nobody had a camera on hand back then. That night my father was able to tell me more about sea turtles. He was the native Floridian. Mom’s from Wisconsin.

  99. 99.

    Trivia Man

    @Geminid: the Madison airport has a big patch of solar. It’s a great use of otherwise unusable space. I’m always wary of removing nature – but they already have to keep it clear and so trees and large animals aren’t really being displaced.

  101. 101.

    Miss Bianca

    @Steeplejack: You’ve reminded me, I have some mincemeat in the freezer – I am going to have make some tarts with it, as it does seem to be an acquired taste that no one is bothering to acquire anymore, and thus little tarts are the drug gateway.

    Mincemeat pie was my father’s favorite, so I grew up with it.

  103. 103.

    citizen dave

    Should brag a little on our local airport solar farm, which is 10 years old now (an early adopter!), in perhaps the unlikely spot of central Indiana; and still one of, if not the, world’s largest airport solar farm.  The local utility did a 100 MW solar feed-in tariff, which paid nice rates for projects.  The airport has around 17.5 MWs, it appears.  And No, there is no glare issue for the pilots/planes: worldrecordacademy.org/2023/6/worlds-largest-airport-based-solar-farm-indianapolis-indiana-42324

    Our terminal is really nice and convenient, often wins awards.  They moved it to make a midfield (among the runways) terminal, and it was the first such U.S. terminal designed after 9/11.  Admittedly it’s not a super busy airport on most days.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @StringOnAStick: I saw adobe bread ovens in backyards all over New Mexico. They go way back, I think.

    “Pie” Allen was one of New Mexico Territory’s better known bakers. He arrived from the Midwest too late to get in on a small gold rush near Yuma, so he set up a pie baking business in Tucson. I don’t know if Allen used adobe or brick ovens, but he could make a tasty pie out of  flour, lard, dried apples and spices; miners and cowboys would ride many a mile to one of Allen’s pies.

    Allen sold his pies for a dollar each, and made enough money to start a couple general stores. Then of course he became a politician.

    By then Mr. Allen had earned the nickname “Pie” and it stuck with him. After he served a term as a general officer in the Territorial Militia, Allen became known as “General Pie.”

  108. 108.

    Steeplejack

    @Miss Bianca:

    Do eeet! My mother used to make excellent mincemeat hand pies from scratch. Wish I had one now.

    She’s still alive, but resolutely “retired” from cooking. It’s almost impossible to even wring a recipe or a secret tip out of her. Bummer.

  109. 109.

    WaterGirl

    @sdhays: As to your first point, I don’t wonder at all.  The only way he would walk into a church would be to take the money FROM the collection plate.

    As to your second point, sadly yes.

  111. 111.

    RaflW

    @Gvg: Treatment is somewhat better understood now, but our puritanical streak (and we’re not alone in this among nations) cannot seem to tolerate harm reduction very well.

    I am ambivalent about decriminalizing/legalizing pot, but one potential positive is that at least for a segment of highly addicted people, stepping down to edibles and even smoking can be a legal course of effort now in quite a few states.

    If it keeps people like a very long time friend of mine who was an injected heroin user stable with just pot, I’m for it.

  112. 112.

    RaflW

    @Kathleen: I’m sure president Nikki Haley (& vice president Greg Gianforte) will make West a cabinet member.

    Maybe secretary of education? He’d do well in the privatization racket, and call anyone who pushes back an elite Democrat racist.

  118. 118.

    steverinoCT

    @Trivia Man:  In Jersey I was tickled by the fact that’s it’s free to drive IN but it costs money to LEAVE on almost every road. (I found the free ones!)

    Too late for you to see this, but the idea is for the traffic to build up in, say, Fort Lee approaches to the GWB rather than in Manhattan. More room to spread out.

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