Chef José Andrés wrote a powerful guest opinion piece for the New York Times in response to the death of seven WCK aid workers in an IDF strike earlier this week. Here’s a gift link. Excerpts below:
In the worst conditions you can imagine — after hurricanes, earthquakes, bombs and gunfire — the best of humanity shows up. Not once or twice but always.
The seven people killed on a World Central Kitchen mission in Gaza on Monday were the best of humanity. They are not faceless or nameless. They are not generic aid workers or collateral damage in war…
From Day 1, we have fed Israelis as well as Palestinians. Across Israel, we have served more than 1.75 million hot meals. We have fed families displaced by Hezbollah rockets in the north. We have fed grieving families from the south. We delivered meals to the hospitals where hostages were reunited with their families. We have called consistently, repeatedly and passionately for the release of all the hostages…
We know Israelis. Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.
Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.
The Israeli government needs to open more land routes for food and medicine today. It needs to stop killing civilians and aid workers today. It needs to start the long journey to peace today.
In the worst conditions, after the worst terrorist attack in its history, it’s time for the best of Israel to show up…
Like the humanitarian he is, the chef acknowledges the immense suffering on all sides — the Palestinian civilians in Gaza, the hostages still being held there and the victims and survivors of Hamas atrocities. The worst currently have free rein. I sure hope the best figure out how to show up.
Open thread.
Janus Daniels
This is Israel. We are what we choose. Israelis have a choice. Israel is not better that this.
Some Israelis are better, but not enough.
leeleeFL
Benjamin Netanyahu has been putting supporters of Israel in untenable positions to far too long. He needs to be removed from power and replaced by people who want peace and security for both sides. The same is true of Mahmoud Abbas. They have failed their people, and those of us who support a safe, mutuallly secure Israel and Palestine must say so.
cain
Israel shamed themselves with killing those aid workers. From accounts described they did so maliciously. Bibi has to go. Like the U.S., they took an event that had given them world wide support and turned it into something that burned their reputation with the international community for years to come. What we did in Iraq should shame us Americans – what Israel has been doing with Gaza should shame every Israeli with their actions.
They are being painted into a corner. That doesn’t let Hamas off the hook. Those assholes need a reckoning and removed from civic responsibilities of the Palestinian people. The fact that they fucking charging their own people for the food we are distributing for free is a war crime and they should be tried in absentia at the hague or at a UN court.
bbleh
It appears that even Bibi has realized this was a major fk-up, and I hope it continues to fk things up for him. I don’t think it was a mistake in terms of the IDF’s general approach — this is what they’ve been doing day and night and not making much secret of it — but it’s clear they underestimated the blowback. I just hope it’s enough to tip the scales further at the WH.
Off-topic: this is great fun. I Don-Bombed Sedona with a Trump cardboard cutout (Gift link) https://wapo.st/3VKq2ea
New Deal democrat
Two comments:
I think Chef Andres’ operations approach the level of sainthood in US public opinion. With the information that it appears the convoy was deliberately targeted, with three strikes to make sure the workers were killed, I suspect this is going to have a significant impact in how US opinion views Israel’s Gaza operation.
Secondly, it has gotten almost zero attention in the US, but several days ago Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria. Not some terrorist hideout, not some alllied paramilitary operation, but an actual diplomatic mission. That’s an Act of War, plain and simple.
Maybe Israel has some inside information that leads it to believe that Iran won’t respond, but this certainly risks a big escalation in the war.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Chef Andres is more gracious than anyone had a right to expect. But then, that’s who he is.
cain
@New Deal democrat:
It seems Bibi plans to stay in power by getting Israel into war with its neighbors. You can bet that SA is happy with their rival getting into it with Israel.
The whole middle east is one big flaming area of passion as hot as the climate.
MrRoivas
Every single place I’ve read over where Israelis gather to chat is filled with dismay, shame and anger over this unfathomable act. The most generous of interpretations still requires a criminal level of stupidity and warped judgement.
May those responsible be brought to justice. It won’t bring back those killed.
Words fail to express the heaviness in my heart whenever I think about this.
Soprano2
It’s as if Israel is actively trying to get the whole world to turn against them. When I heard the story this morning that all three cars were fired on, I thought “so the story that it was an accident is bullshit”. It wasn’t an “accident”, they did it deliberately because they thought there was one member of Hamas in the cars. Also, they said this happened in Egypt, so then I also knew it wasn’t an accident. This also makes me think another reason they did it was to get all the aid workers to pull out, so that Gazans will starve to death. It seems that Bibi and those who support him are in favor of ethnically cleansing Gaza with any means necessary.
Biden should use this incident to denounce them and say we aren’t giving them any more aid, period. They should not use our money to murder aid workers.
bbleh
@cain: concur. He’s fighting for his political life — and to avoid potential imprisonment — and he’s happy to take the country down with him. And at least so far he’s got a big chunk of the population solidly behind him.
Sounds familiar …
Caveatimperator
@cain:
It’s also interesting that as the current war has progressed, there’s been a shift in the political winds among liberal Israel supporters in the US. A few weeks ago, Chuck Schumer called for a new government. Schumer! He’s been staunchly pro-Israel since forever! If you’ve lost him, something has gone very wrong.
And a lot of the hardliners (both in Israel and outside it) take this shift not as a sign that they’ve crossed a line, but as a sign that people outside the country are being brainwashed. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of anti-Israel sentiment is full of conspiracy theories and pseudohistory, but there’s also so much that is well grounded in facts.
MattF
And yes, everyone should contribute to WCK. I contribute, and I like getting the occasional email from them.
PeaceisPossible
Israel’s defense minister has said what Israel is doing wouldn’t be possible without US complicity.
The Biden administration funds and whitewashes Israel’s massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide, and you wholeheartedly cheerlead and will vote for him. You cheerlead Biden, who has rejected three permanent ceasefire proposals.
Look within at what this does to your soul.
Can you forgive yourself? I’ll try to forgive you.
cain
@MrRoivas:
Someone is going to be thrown under the bus for this and it isn’t going to be Bibi.
satby
Chef Andres already deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, but if he helps to topple Netanyahu (and his powerful advocacy may) the entire world will owe him a huge debt of gratitude.
John S.
@Caveatimperator:
Meanwhile, antisemitism is on the rise — fueled in part by what Israel is doing. But good luck trying to explain to conservative Jews that hate cannot be stopped by violence. Lord knows I have tried.
Citizen_X
It’s hard for the best to show up, if they keep getting murdered when they do.
Bibi, Putin, and Trump are all desperate to stay or get back in power, willing to kill however many people it takes to protect their position. I wish I had a clear idea how to stop them.
Warblewarble
In the face of the evidence of three deliberate strikes to kill the aid workers. We are still seeing efforts to grant immunity to the Israelis as has been granted to them for countless other killings. This is not as we are being told “defending Israel” it is part of calculated policy to starve and drive Palestinians from their land .
Lyrebird
@MrRoivas: Agreed. Thank you for your comment. I don’t have words… but I managed to help my students talk about the war yesterday in a way that left them all feeling heard, I think.
Thank you Betty C for bearing witness in such a principled way.
J Street doesn’t yet have a new update, but their January call for a stop to the bombings is still pretty spot on, and I think I will call my congressperson again to remind him about this proposal to recognize a demilitarized Palestinian state now, not later.
Jay said in a comment last night that Canada has cancelled arms sales to Israel. I don’t know with our current defense agreements whether the US can do that, but I sure hope some officials are busy figuring out how.
MomSense
Chef Andres is truly a person of peace and deserving of the Novel Peace Prize. I hope that Israelis and Palestinians listen to him and choose peace and leaders who will make it a reality.
PeaceisPossible
@Citizen_X: Isn’t the more immediate question, “How do we stop Biden from funding Israel’s crimes?”
If you don’t care about how Biden is enabling these massacres, then we have to conclude your concern is faked and partisan.
rikyrah
This was a deliberate act.
Nobody will convince me otherwise.🤬🤬
Betty Cracker
@PeaceisPossible: I don’t “cheerlead” Biden’s handling of this crisis and neither need nor want your “forgiveness.”
Another Scott
Chef José Andrés walks the talk and is a wonderful human being.
Ultimately, we are who we pretend to be. Or, in other words, how we act matters much more than how we think or how we talk. I say that as someone who is moved by stirring words as much (or maybe more) than others. But it’s actions that ultimately matter.
If the IDF and Israel’s governments act like fascists, then we should believe our own lying eyes and adjust our policies taking that into account.
Peace and comfort to the innocents.
Grr…,
Scott.
The Thin Black Duke
Troll.
cain
@John S.: Let’s face it – those people will find any excuse to hate Jews. Israel is certainly providing cover for their hate but they are gonna keep hating regardless. Antisemitism a mental disease of which there seems to absolutely no rational reason to hate them.
SiubhanDuinne
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yup. Wasn’t anticipating having to haul out the ol’ pie filter this early. New troll, do you think, or old troll with a new nym?
A Ghost to Most
Just another ugly episode in the Holy Wars.
Timill
Mmmm – patisserie…
PeaceisPossible
@Betty Cracker: If you can claim that a president who funds genocide is a good man, then you are his cheerleader.
Imagine if a German in the ’30s claimed Hitler was a good man, despite his actions on “this one issue.”
MattF
@SiubhanDuinne: Done.
Another Scott
@Lyrebird: It may take an act of Congress to stop sales.
I don’t doubt, though I haven’t checked, that the President and the DoD have quite a bit of discretion on when things are actually delivered or transferred. E.g. There were Lockheed C-130s parked in Marietta, GA for years that had been purchased by the Shah of Iran but weren’t delivered after the revolution.
“Sorry, Bibi, we’re having trouble finding available ships and planes to get those things over to you. We’re working on it. Don’t call us, we’ll call you…”
Grr…,
Scott.
PeaceisPossible
@The Thin Black Duke: Is it being a troll to point out that partisanship is leading us all down a terrible moral path?
To point out that principles are worthless unless they are applied universally?
Another Scott
@PeaceisPossible: Biden doesn’t fund Israel’s weapons. Congress does.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Thin Black Duke
Here come the cliches. Don’t these guys have new material?
topclimber
Has the US joined the EU in pointing out how Israel has to date shown no evidence for its claims that the UNRWA had many members who actively supported the Oct. 7 atrocity?
“Janez Lenarcic, the head of humanitarian aid and crisis management at the European Commission, said that neither he nor – according to his knowledge – anybody else at the EU executive, or any other UNRWA donor had been presented with evidence by Israel.” This was as of 3/14.
This charge charge led to many countries suspending aid to UNRWA, US included. Now the GOP clowns want to make the cutoff last at least a year. Because no evidence is needed when Bibi speaks.
The Thin Black Duke
You keep using that word but I don’t think you know what it means.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
This.
And in general, I just don’t see why we’re providing money and weaponry to Israel at all. Even before the last six months, we were just enabling Israel to be a bad actor, blockading Gaza and making sure “settlers” take over more and more of the West Bank while pushing the Palestinians into smaller and more disjointed fractions of the West Bank. And doing what they could to sabotage our deal with Iran to remain without nuclear weapons.
They are not a friend of the U.S., and they’re a dubious ally at best. Fuck this special relationship with them; it’s time to treat them like any other nation.
HinTN
@Betty Cracker: This!
coin operated
@lowtechcyclist:
THIS. 100%
topclimber
@lowtechcyclist: We should continue to denounce those who imperil Israel. Bibi has been top of that list for some time.
Omnes Omnibus
Apropos of nothing in particular, good people can be wrong.
PeaceisPossible
@Another Scott: You’re misinformed – Biden is all in on weapons to Israel: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/flow-of-arms-from-us-to-israel-continues-despite-ceasefire-abstention
Gin & Tonic
@PeaceisPossible: I am trying to recall your comments here about the attempted genocide of Ukrainians, and coming up empty. Perhaps you have a link?
kindness
@PeaceisPossible: Buddy….. blaming Joe Biden for Bibi/Likud’s evil isn’t covering you with the glory you hope for. It’s more like you’ve taken a dump in your own dinner bowl and expect to be congradulated. Trump is way worse.
Another Scott
@PeaceisPossible: Your link doesn’t contradict what I said.
Congress appropriates funds. It is illegal for the President not to spend the money Congress appropriates. If you want Congress to spend money differently, you need to get them to change the appropriations. Good luck with that.
Have a nice day.
Cheers,
Scott.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@PeaceisPossible: Your bad faith attack on us is barely worthy of a response. If you’re not a troll, maybe you shouldn’t act like one.
OzarkHillbilly
Yeah, checking out. I have better things to do with my day. Hope y’all find as successful a way to ignore the latest pain in the ass as I have.
Kay
@topclimber:
According to Adam’s post last night, no food aid is getting in at all.
There will be mass starvation shortly.
My fear is that Biden actually DOES recognize how horrible this situation has become and is now trying to get a broader deal done, because if he doesn’t the US will have absolutely no moral ground left. He has to keep Israel on board for a broader deal, which means more suffering for Palestinians. I feel helpless watching this – like he’s committing political suicide.
Paul in KY
@bbleh: Hamas sure helped him by getting a ‘big portion of population with him’.
But that’s what Likud Israel has always used Hamas for…
topclimber
@Another Scott: Biden could declare that conditions have changed since the bill was passed and that arms would destabilize a bad situation, and/or that the current Israeli regime is not in compliance with aid restrictions and likely never will be.
I also think there is a way for Congress to overrule his decision, but it needs a veto-proof vote. Peace is possible; this is not.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: At this point I think it’s easy to make the argument that with this attack, we can see that the current Israeli government and Bibi in particular are completely out of control. Deliberately targeting an aid convoy because you think there might be one Hamas fighter in one of the cars is gross and disgusting. They are blinded by their blood-red rage if they think that is in any way justified.
Betty Cracker
@PeaceisPossible: I think Biden is a good president, despite my deep misgivings about how he’s handling the Israel-Hamas issue. My opinion of him as a person is irrelevant and therefore not something I go on about here. That you didn’t know this suggests maybe you should spend more time reading than hurling accusations at strangers whose actual opinions are unknown to you.
catclub
@lowtechcyclist:
Yes. The (surviving) crew of the USSLiberty would agree.
cain
@Soprano2:
What they are saying is that killing a Hamas fighter is worth the lives of non-combatants even if they had in prior worked with the IDF. All it takes is innuendo and rumor and they’ll strike.
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: Echoes of the Cheney 1% Doctrine.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: And I’m so so so sure that TFG would be ever so much betterer than Pres. Biden.
Thanks for your forgiveness, though. I feel so much better
Edit: I just noticed you said ‘try’. Hah! Forgive or forgive not. There is no ‘try’, asshole.
PeaceisPossible
@Kay: This is correct. He is commiting political suicide.
If readers here want Biden to defeat Trump, I’d recommend writing, calling and protesting Biden’s actions in Gaza.
Where we differ is, I am fairly certain Biden is a true believer in doing anything Israel wants. Just judging by his actions after six months, he won’t stop funding this.
hueyplong
Looks like we have new friends.
Pie is the breakfast of champions.
Layer8Problem
Helpful pot-stirrers never seen before stop by to express their deep thoughts. Maybe some are lurkers jumping in to express their shallow view of what’s really wrong based on five minutes of close study, maybe some are paid wedge-drivers, whether from rich Republican- or Russian-funded boiler rooms is immaterial. Lots of innocent people regardless of affiliation are dying in bad ways caused by bad actors, folks, but Biden’s still President, and there’s money to be made or contradictions to heighten!
Ksmiami
@Soprano2: yep. It actually gives Biden breathing room to stop military aid until Bibi is gone and the two State solution is the plan
PeaceisPossible
@Betty Cracker: I apologize for hurling accusations.
We disagree on the quality of the Biden presidency, but I don’t know you and don’t judge you!
Layer8Problem
@Omnes Omnibus: Good people can be ill informed, shallow, easily led, eminently griftable, unreflective, . . . .
“The common clay of the New West.”
PeaceisPossible
@Paul in KY: Who said anything about Trump? I’m talking about the current president using his considerable leverage to influence foreign policy.
lowtechcyclist
@topclimber:
True that.
What really pisses me off about Israel’s behavior is that the Middle East has become a much safer place for Israel during my lifetime. Most Arab nations have either normalized relations with Israel, or are moving in that direction. It’s nothing like what it was in 1967 or 1973. Yet Israel still acts like it needs the West Bank as a defensive buffer against…whom? Jordan? Right.
Israel’s meaningful foes aren’t nations but rather terrorist orgs like Hamas and Hezbollah. You can’t attack organizations like that with an army; the best way to fight them is to undercut their reason for existence, by giving people less reason to want to revenge themselves on Israel, and more ability to have decent lives and be left alone.
But it doesn’t seem that Israel’s done much to move in that direction in recent decades, whether Bibi’s been in power or not.
lowtechcyclist
@OzarkHillbilly:
Pastry is good. :-)
japa21
@PeaceisPossible: One quick question. I don’t consider you a troll, BTW. I think you are sincere. Regarding your nym, it is rather obvious that if the US stopped sending any aid to Israel, nothing would really change on the ground, so what and how is peace possible?
Geminid
@New Deal democrat: The Damsscus bombing has gotten plenty of attention on news sites all over the Mideast, and from Western foreign affairs sites. Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khameini, says Israel will be punished for the crime, but it’s unclear wnen and how.
I read a Twitter account titled “Patarames” from time to time. It’s by an Iranian military tech analyst who mainly talks up the capabilities of Iran’s new weaponry.
He gets into strategic issues also, and his take on the bombing was interesting. He was damping expectations of a major retalition from Iran. Some commenters were saying that if Iran did not act decisively Israel was gonna roll up the “Axis of Resistance” in Syria and Lebanon, but Patames argued “no, the Axis of Resistance is strong, we’re in this for the long haul, and the IGRC can reply to this bombing in its own time.” I don’t know how much if any this guy reflects regime opinion, but he sometimes seems to know what he’s talking about.
However, with Israel poised to invade southern Lebanon, this war can easily get bigger and Iran and Syria could still jump in despite a lot of pressure not too.
Layer8Problem
“Who said anything about Trump?”
Yes, who is this Trump fellow anyway? People seem concerned about him.
JPL
@lowtechcyclist: Bibi is trying to stay out of jail, and if that means starving the people of Gaza so be it.
I’m not alone in thinking that the strike was intentional. The purpose being to keep aid out of the country. I’m sickened by the action of Bibi and his cronies.
geg6
That’s it for me with regard to Israel. I’m done with them. Biden should cancel any and all aid, AFIAC. They have become what they fled.
geg6
@PeaceisPossible:
Fuck off. You think Trump will be better? You’re an idiot.
Ksmiami
@catclub: yep. Time to make it clear that we are the dominant one in this
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@PeaceisPossible: Do you want Biden to beat Trump? Or is it just “readers here” who want that?
Ksmiami
@geg6: I just wrote the White House. Suggest everyone here do the same.
Citizen Alan
@lowtechcyclist: We’re providing aid To Israel without consideration of israel’s actions because they are basically 2 political entities that share power in this country. And one of them is completely under the sway of an apocalyptic death cult that sees Israel as ground zero for Armageddon. And the death cult party is supported by a hostile media that will betray any attempt to hold back Israel as being objectively pro hamas.
geg6
@PeaceisPossible:
Okay, you’re a troll. Fuck off even harder.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@PeaceisPossible:
How it started:
How it’s going:
caphilldcne
@PeaceisPossible: please do not forgive me because I will never forgive you when the US goes fascist. You can get out of here with your utter bullshit. It’s so stupid it makes me think you are a Russian troll come to dos this divisiveness.
Ksmiami
@PeaceisPossible: oh ffs. He’s not committing genocide. Bibi has to go. I have faith in this administration to do the right things.
Ksmiami
@geg6: ditto
chopper
@PeaceisPossible:
i’d try to forgive you for your blatant attempts to get trump, a guy who’s a million times worse on gaza than any democrat, elected. but i just can’t.
WaterGirl
Please don’t feed the bears.
geg6
@Ksmiami:
Already done!
chopper
@Another Scott:
the last time a president deliberately withheld congressional aid to another country he was impeached
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Thank you to everyone in this thread that is engaging in good faith criticism of the Israeli govt’s heinous actions and misguided response to the despicable attacks by Hamas in October 2023, and are critiquing the US’ response, which is slowly improving but needs to decisively change in response to this latest atrocity.
…all without coming off as a holier than thou anti-Biden axe-grinder. Well done, all!
Manyakitty
@leeleeFL: this, all day every day.
Layer8Problem
@WaterGirl: There’s nothing as cute as a catcake. Unless it’s a pupcake or a goosecake.
Ksmiami
@geg6: brownies all around. This White House is responsive
PeaceisPossible
@japa21: Thanks! I’m not!
In response to your question, IDF Maj General Yitzhak Brick was quoted as saying, “All of our missiles, the ammunition, our precision guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US. The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”
The rest of the world sees it this way, as well.
So yes, peace is possible if we turn off the tap and demand a permanent ceasefire & negotiations.
Layer8Problem
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Succinctly put! I’m signing on to this.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: Joe Biden is a fine and caring man. He is in a terrible job where you have to make decisions every day that would have you wetting your bed.
debit
@PeaceisPossible: Ok, here we go. Biden = Hitler. Welcome to pie town.
PeaceisPossible
@chopper: Again, what have I said about Trump? Trump is not the current president.
I only believe US citizens should demand that Biden not fund a genocide.
Is that controversial?
caphilldcne
Can someone explain how to use the pie filter on an iPhone? I’m not seeing how and I’ve never used it before.
I nominate, “Can you forgive yourself? I’ll try to forgive you,” for a rotating header. Just the right amount of cloying sanctimony mixed with the smell of troll to give me a good laugh.
Omnes Omnibus
@PeaceisPossible: Let’s say that your astonishment at the mention of Trump comes off as more than a bit disingenuous. Okay?
PeaceisPossible
@Paul in KY: The decision to arm a foreign country that is attacking and starving defenseless & trapped people is not a good one.
This isn’t a hard decision. If Trump did this, you wouldn’t apologize for him and claim that his critics are “bed-wetters”.
Baud
For those interested in the full context of the quote at #90.
p.a.
We (the US) don’t know if cutting off military aid to Israel will change anything because we’ve never fucking tried. At least not since France, Britain, and Israel tried to take the Suez Canal (US political action, not a military embargo, ended the attempt.)
Paul in KY
@The Thin Black Duke: Good answer! I was thinking ‘partisanship!?!?!?!’. Would have been good to get old Jim Mora to answer that one!
PeaceisPossible
@Omnes Omnibus: You folks are literally the only people bringing up Trump. I’m talking about the sitting president and his foreign policy in Gaza. That’s it!
I don’t blame you for wanting to change the subject.
SW
We are hardly in a position to cast the first stone but what we should have learned from 9/11-Iraq is that in the wake of an atrocity, a nation is particularly vulnerable to having their shock, anger and grief hijacked by amoral political operatives and put in the service of settling old scores and behaving in a manner repugnant to civilized people.
MattF
@caphilldcne: Open the comments for some post, the pie icon is visible at the top of the comments section.
japa21
@PeaceisPossible: Interesting that you believe that statement. Personally, I see that statement as a way to turn people against Biden and to get Trump elected. We know Israel is strongly in favor of Trump winning office.
Also, in terms of peace being possible, what about Hamas? Are you also writing on Iranian blogs to tell them to have the Ayatollah stop funding and arming Hamas and other extremist groups? Do you believe Israel has no right to self defense and that they should be totally disarmed?
Depending on your response, I may reconsider my original statement about trolls.
brendancalling
“We know Israelis. Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.
Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.”
This is an awful lot like the emails and calls I maker to parents of my worst students. We call it a “positive sandwich.” In other words, we couch the bad news about their poorly behaved, uninterested, foul-mouthed, lazy, violent children with some good news first—kind of the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. “We both know Roger can do better—I’ve seen him do better so many times. I’d appreciate if you’d have a talk with him about punching other students in the face while screaming ‘pendejo’ and ‘maricon’ and threatening to shoot them if they see them after school. Thanks so much!”
I am quite sure that “Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.” Of course they know this. Do they care? Not so sure about that. Just like little Roger knows that it’s not OK to beat up his classmates. By the same token, Roger is better than being a violent sociopath, but he is affirmatively making the choice to be one when he beats up his classmates. Same with the Israelis, who are “better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.” They just don’t care to BE better.
So it goes. Poo-tee-weet.
caphilldcne
I think the new troll is Steve Bannon. Where do I go to collect my $5 in Trump dollar bills?
japa21
@SW:
Which is exactly what Biden warned about.
Citizen_X
@PeaceisPossible: Changing the subject? Getting Trump back into power is your job, tovarisch. Earn those rubles!
caphilldcne
@MattF: thank you, Matt. Wow. It really works. The new troll is gone with all responses (including my own – serves me right). Also, I literally have scrolled past the filter every day and not realized that’s how to use it.
Manyakitty
@The Thin Black Duke: I find myself enjoying extra pastry in these posts lately. I never pied anyone for years and I’m about to bump my list up to 3.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: It’s either Pres. Biden or TFG and the deluge. Those are your only choices. I stand with Pres. Biden!
Baud
@caphilldcne:
FYI. It’s per devise. The filter won’t be active if you switch to a computer.
Another Scott
@topclimber:
Your comment gives me an excuse to do some checking. Here’s some background I found.
1. ObamaWhiteHouse.archives.gov:
From 2016.
That expires at the end of FY 2028.
2. Text of the MOU (4 page .pdf image – 3 pages of the agreement, 1 page with Bibi’s letter and signature.)
This stuff is complicated. The agreement says there will be no change in funding levels for 10 years (except if both sides agree “in exceptional circumstances” that additional missile defense funding is needed in a “major armed conflict involving Israel”. I’m sure there are other rules that can be invoked to delay funding from the US, but there would likely be additional consequences that we don’t like in doing so. (There are always checks and balances, but consequences.) There is no magic wand that Biden can wave to somehow stop it without consequences. There are constraints.
The biggest constraint (page 3) is that Congress appropriates the agreed funds.
tl;dr – there is never One Weird Trick.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@PeaceisPossible: You were trashing us for supporting Biden.
Here in the US, it’s an election year. Trump is Biden’s opponent in the General Election this November. Perhaps you have heard about this. The stakes are rather high.
Manyakitty
@SiubhanDuinne: so many tasty and adorable treats
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@SW: President Biden urged Israel not to make the same mistakes the US did.
Layer8Problem
@Layer8Problem: Dang, forgot the sea lions. Please include the sea lion cake and the sea lion chow in the the cute list.
TBone
The journey of a thousand miles is begun with the first step. On that path, I celebrate every single win. Punching Nazis is fun. Buh bye, fascist!
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/04/voters-oust-nazi-their-city-council-enid
Baud
@TBone:
Especially in Oklahoma.
caphilldcne
@Baud: good to know. Thank you.
Paul in KY
@lowtechcyclist: Ha ha ha! Ever since Likud Israel has been in power, the focus is on making sure there is never a credible reason for a ‘real’ Palestinian State. Usually, the Palestinians (through PLO, Hamas, whatever) have helped them out. Reduction in tensions between Israel and other nation states has actually helped this ‘vision’ out, as there are no credible adversaries who would demand a Palestinian State to cease combat hostilities.
TBone
@Baud: 👍
Layer8Problem
@Baud, @caphilldcne: And I think if you clear your cookies on a device, either all of the cookies or just balloon-juice.com cookies, all your pied names are unpied so clear carefully.
PeaceisPossible
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: US election campaigns last at least two years. During that time, every partisan always says “now is not the time for criticism. We’ve got to get behind our candidate.”
I’m only saying that now—when we are doing nothing to stop a six-months-and-counting genocide—is the time to criticize Biden.
Use your leverage as a voter!
We supposedly live in a democracy – if that’s the case, the president would theoretically be forced to listen to you.
Warblewarble
It is not an anti Biden stance to believe current US policy arming Israeli expanionism is wrong and needs to change. Anti semetism is grievously wrong, throwing around unfounded smokescreen charges is a tactic much used by Israels proxies. Look closely at any factual basis. Knee jerks only muddy the waters.
UncleEbeneezer
I encourage everyone here to have a yummy “Peace” of pie this morning.
TBone
My hero Sheldon Whitehouse says:
Xitter link is too much for me today so here is a website link to it instead:
https://susiemadrak.com/2024/04/03/everything-is-a-mess/
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: Gen. Brick is lying. dippo. Israel makes jet fighters, tanks, fine assault rifles, ammo and many other things.
Baud
@TBone:
What happened? That’s big news of Ukraine aid will move. That’s the last big thing we need out of the GOP house.
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: That should be “m’kay” (to get maximum points), but well played, sir.
TBone
@Baud:
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-money/2024/04/01/the-russia-clash-to-watch-00149910
Baud
@Paul in KY:
See my #98. It was a quote to pressure Biden not to insist on humanitarian considerations.
Baud
@TBone:
Ah, thanks. Good, but not the big aid package.
chopper
@PeaceisPossible:
when you say “you wholeheartedly cheerlead and will vote for him…Look within at what this does to your soul” it seems like you’re talking about the fucking election, doesn’t it?
come on, son, don’t go hiding behind “i didn’t actually say the word trump” now.
Matt McIrvin
@SW: I’m tempted to say that we should shun any country that has just been the victim of a large terrorist attack– but of course *that* would create a huge new incentive for more terrorist attacks.
geg6
@PeaceisPossible:
You’ve got the target wrong. Biden doesn’t fund anything. Congress does. Talk to them.
Your Hitler = Biden bullshit is not in good faith. And I don’t give a shit if you forgive me or not. You mean literally nothing to my life.
topclimber
@Another Scott: I don’t think any memo or anything short of a treaty binds a future Congress or President.
I disagree with your categorization of one weird trick, but even accepting it, just the announcement of a possible pause in aid might convince the world that Biden is serious about not involving the US in Bibi’s latest genocide.
chopper
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
he’s trashing us for *voting* for biden. it’ll tarnish our souls! and yet he’s not at all talking about the election, nosiree
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Even Europe? What about Ukraine – is it technically not terrorism because the Russian state is the main actor?
PeaceisPossible
@Paul in KY: Yeah, everyone who threatens your rosy view of US foreign policy under Biden is lying.
It’s easy to believe you’re in the right when you can dismiss contradictory evidence so easily.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: Pres. Biden doesn’t fund it, dingo. Congress (currently composed of 50% flaming, Likud-supporting, ‘Christian’, Jeebus-is-coming-as-soon-as-we-can-get-a-nuclear-war-in-the-Middle-East loons) funds it.
Paul in KY
@Baud: If you can’t kill those low-life, ill-trained, like-to-kill-ravers when they are fully hydrated & fed, then what the hell kind of professional military do you have?!?!?
geg6
@japa21:
I find it interesting that there is no mention of Russia targeting civilians in Ukraine. No moral outrage for that, I guess. No talking to Russians about getting rid of Putin due to his actual war against a sovreign country and it’s citizens. Peace is possible there, too. But no sympathy for Ukraine is forthcoming from our new and very condescending commenter.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@caphilldcne: Tap on the pie at the top of the comment section & the list of posters appears. You know what to do next.
PeaceisPossible
@chopper: Cheerleading and voting for a president who funds mass murder and famine is awful for the soul – it’s true.
That doesn’t mean voting for Trump is good for the soul.
gwangung
@PeaceisPossible: I judge you as not being very good at this.
Matt McIrvin
@geg6: Israel is killing way *more* civilians in Gaza than Russia has managed to do in Ukraine, but that’s mostly because Ukraine has more capability to defend itself, not for lack of trying.
PeaceisPossible
@Paul in KY: Are you under the impression that a bipartisan majority (both Democrats and Republicans) don’t support this?
Are you under the impression that Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist whose state department has rejected three permanent ceasefire proposals, doesn’t support this?
You are mistaken.
geg6
@PeaceisPossible:
Hahahahahahahahaha! You’re new to the US, aren’t you? But at this point, I don’t think you are in the US. How’s the weather in Russia?
chopper
@PeaceisPossible:
on israel, biden is better than any president in the last 30 years.
on israel, trump is worse than any president since israel was founded.
that’s the choice. that’s it. it’s a simple one. and my soul’s doing just fuckin’ fine, thanks
Paul in KY
@TBone: Yay! Great news! Death to Fascism!
rikyrah
@TBone:
No Ukraine Aid. No Israel Aid.
That’s how I see it.
Get Ukraine their Aid, and I’ll grit my teeth thinking about the aid going to Israel.
UncleEbeneezer
@Manyakitty: It’s a great feature. And I have never regretted using it. I’m considering moving some generally good commenters onto my list until after the election, for the sake of my own focus and sanity.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: You do agree that Pres. Trump would be much, much worse for Palestinians and would support Netanyahu unreservedly. Correct?
Soprano2
@Another Scott: I think he could stop it temporarily though on the grounds that Israel is not using the aid in the way they are supposed to. He could do that and dare Congress to do something about it. I think they would make a lot of noise but not actually do anything. He could say that we will provide the aid eventually, but not now based on the fact that Israel has demonstrated that they will attack non-combatants based on a rumor.
japa21
@PeaceisPossible: And I have now changed my opinion about you being a troll. You are not interested in peace, otherwise you would have answered my previous question.
PeaceisPossible
@geg6: Yay, McCarthyism is cool now!
You change the subject and rely on ad hominem because you hate that the subject reflects poorly on you and on Biden.
Manyakitty
@UncleEbeneezer: same, same.
PeaceisPossible
@Paul in KY: No one cares what I think. Why would it matter to anyone whether I think Biden or Trump is “better”?
All I want is for Democrats to demand basic things from Democratic leaders.
If that message gets through, mission accomplished. If not, life goes on & it’s a beautiful day.
Baud
@geg6:
Could be Israeli. If Bibi can get Trrump elected, he’s home free.
Paul in KY
@Baud: I see. Thanks for the expanded quote. He was still lying, IMO.
Ksmiami
@PeaceisPossible: let me guess- you’re a white guy who’s totally unaware of the stakes for marginalized groups in the 2024 election. Go away.
Baud
@Paul in KY:
Right. But the context explains why his was lying.
Matt McIrvin
@UncleEbeneezer: I pie many people, I’ve been pied by many people, it’s fine. The only thing that annoys me about it is an exploitable bug I’ve mentioned before, which I don’t think has been patched (could be wrong).
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: Look it up. Google ‘Israeli made weapons’, choad.
Soprano2
@brendancalling: I go back to the interview I heard on NPR with an Israeli woman who was asked how she felt about a crying 10-year-old boy in Gaza whose parents had been killed by the Israelis. She said all she saw was a future Hamas terrorist who could come and kill her, her family and her neighbors. I think that’s how a lot of Israelis feel about the people in Gaza right now, so it’s not as easy for the Israeli government to stop the war as we might think it is. What would the reaction of the American public have been if George W. had said, six months after 9-11, that we were going to pull out of Afghanistan and stop all the war? That’s why I think Biden needs to use this as a way to say “no more aid”, because he can’t stop the Israeli government from waging this war but he can at least temporarily stop us from giving them the money and weapons to wage it.
JWR
@Layer8Problem:
Not sure why, (nudge nudge), but I’ve been thinking about sea lions all thread long. ;)
UncleEbeneezer
Jack Smith’s response to Cannon’s ridiculous request: Nice court you got here? It’d be a shame if I had to file a Mandamus request to the 11th Circuit (to have the case reassigned) because your order is completely wrong on the legal merits and would jeopardize the trial!
geg6
@PeaceisPossible:
LOL! You’re a terrible troll. I don’t care how you think anything reflects on me and my conscience is just fine.
You are here to disrupt, create chaos and try to tamp down any support for the best president of my lifetime. That’s Russian troll work. If you’re not a Russian troll, then stop acting like one. And the day I choose my president based on support for Palestinians would be never. There are no good actors in Israel/Palestine. They all suck and I wish they’d all kill each other and leave the rest of us alone. Since that won’t happen any time soon, I’ll stick with Biden. He’s done the most for the majority of Americans, who are my most important concern. But you be you. Do svidaniya!
Wapiti
@lowtechcyclist: I just don’t see why we’re providing money and weaponry to Israel at all.
I think any treaty “alliance” is from the Camp David peace accords, where we provide aid to Israel and Egypt to maintain the peace on that border. (Egypt is the largest neighbor to Israel, and the only to ever have any military success, so it was a reasonable attempt by Carter to defuse the periodic wars in the region.)
UncleEbeneezer
@Matt McIrvin: How so? Not as in: please share the steps so we all (and resident trolls) know how to do it. More like: what is the bad result/threat of the exploitation/bug?
Soprano2
@TBone: We had a good school board election here, too. The only book banner who won is the one who was already on the board – the other two book banners lost. I was terrified that one of them would win, because if they had the school board would have been controlled by people who think the biggest issue with our schools is that teachers can’t paddle students, some teachers have “safe space” sticker in their rooms, and that there are some bad books in our libraries.
PeaceisPossible
@Baud: Is it your opinion that Israel is following “Biden’s directives”? If they aren’t, what is Biden doing about it?
The context surrounding the quote doesn’t diminish the meaning of the quote. We have yet to even try turning off the tap after six months.
Why haven’t we done that?
TBone
@Soprano2: yay! 😊
Delk
🎶 he got 50,000 watts in a big acoustic tower🎶
brendancalling
@PeaceisPossible: You’re not very smart are you, comrade?
PeaceisPossible
@Ksmiami: Marginalized groups like the people in Gaza or the West Bank?
My opinions shouldn’t be controversial:
1. Demand that Biden stop arming Israel
2. Demand a permanent ceasefire
3. Demand negotiations
Use your leverage as a voter in a supposed democracy. That’s it.
Ksmiami
@geg6: yes yes yes!
Kelly
this is the first time i’ve used the pie filter
brendancalling
@Soprano2: “I go back to the interview I heard on NPR with an Israeli woman who was asked how she felt about a crying 10-year-old boy in Gaza whose parents had been killed by the Israelis. She said all she saw was a future Hamas terrorist who could come and kill her, her family and her neighbors.”
He may well becme a Hamas terrorist because Israelis killed his parents. Funny how that works,
PeaceisPossible
@brendancalling: Maybe I’m not as smart as you, but I have a heart and I know how to use it.
Someday your thinking may change.
Ksmiami
@PeaceisPossible: tell it to Hamas then. Remember them? I’m focused on getting Biden Re-elected to do good in this country. The I/P issue will not be resolved in my lifetime, but restoring Roe and evening the playing field here can be. Btw, if you could get off your myopic Trojan horse, you’d see that yes we all are steering Biden towards a more humane policy. But it’s just one of many issues
TBone
@rikyrah: I’m celebrating every single inch of ground that might make a difference right now or, at least, soon. Freezing and seizing assets should be a no brainer IMO but since we have Rick Grenell running a roughshod shadow foreign policy all over the planet for fat bastard and that means it’s actually doing the bidding of Pooty, it’s something we should all get behind immediately. Like finally getting to Rump, HIT ‘EM IN THE WALLET WHERE IT REALLY HURTS.
brendancalling
@PeaceisPossible: LOL,
спасибо, товарищ Spasibo, tovaris
Also, who gives a shit what you think? You’re just a troll, kindly fuck off.
Oh wait—i can filter you out. До свидания, товарищ
Matt McIrvin
@UncleEbeneezer: There’s a way you can change your nym so that you not only evade the pie filter, but make it apparently impossible to pie you again (and if you do it between comments in the same thread, it’s impossible to pie all of your comments).
brendancalling
the pie filter isn’t appearing on my laptop. anyone have a link? got a troll to remove.
Baud
@brendancalling:
Click on the pie icon directly underneath the post.
Matt McIrvin
(And the general fix for the bug is: the filter itself, and the list of people you haven’t pied yet, MUST use exactly the same criteria for matching names, whatever those may be)
Paul in KY
@Soprano2: That sounds like a good & doable idea (based on overview above of the treaty we signed several years ago). We can also do what Scott said and just slow walk everything.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer:
I don’t use the pie filter here, but I muted a ton of generally good commenters on Twitter during the 2020 primary for that reason.
Kelly
Fall of 1975, my second year at university, I took a poli sci class on the Middle East. For the first time I met and listened to a few Arabs. The situation was so much more complicated than than my rural Oregon friends and family thought based on the common news sources at the time. I’d also recently become aware of festive lynchings in the USA and how ordinary Germans pitched in for the Holocaust. I finished the course fearing that long term, Israel’s task of despotic rule of Palestinians would lead to cruelty. I didn’t know how it would go or how long it would take. You cannot be a benign despot for very long.
Paul in KY
@PeaceisPossible: Oh, I do. I care so much. So please humour me and answer my question.
Ksmiami
@PeaceisPossible: in case I’m not clear, fuck off.
Ha Nguyen
During the Figure Skating World championships, I found myself unable to watch the skaters from Israel. I kept thinking that if ISU banned Russia from sporting events due to the Russia-Ukraine war, they should also ban Israel as well.
Paul in KY
@Soprano2: 6 months after 9-11, we were heading towards Iraq.
I see your point, though. IMO, the onus (cause Israel has what they want) has always been on the Palestinians to ‘behave’ and act civilized enough for Israel not to be able to deny them their state. Likud knows this oh so well and has ensured these ‘burn it all downers’ like Hamas and their ilk have enough power to continue stepping on Palestine’s dick.
It can only change when the Palestinians finally realize how they’ve been played by the Likudnicks and finally call their bluff.
Another Scott
RollCall.com:
(Emphasis added.)
This is the Supplemental that the Senate passed with 70 votes and Johnson has been sitting on.
(Emphasis added.)
Maybe Biden hasn’t done enough, but he’s done a lot to try to get Bibi to change course, and to try keep Hezbollah and Iran and others from making everything much, much worse.
As I said downstairs, Israel is on thin ice and the ice is getting thinner. (IMO).
Grr…,
Scott.
Kosh III
” it is part of calculated policy to starve and drive Palestinians from their land.” The Zionist plan has always been to drive out the people of Palestine and replace them with Jews because Jews need lebensraum.
Israel will be serious about peace when it diligently works to comply with UN Resolution 242.
PeaceisPossible
@Another Scott:
NYT Headline
White House Denies Biden Has Set “Red Lines” for Israel-Hamas War in Gaza:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/world/middleeast/biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza-red-lines.html
A Good Woman
I support Israel, I oppose Netanyahu & his RWNJ peers.
I support Palestinians, I oppose Hamas.
From all I have read it seems to me there are many moving parts and many bloody hands.
In this instance we are talking about bloody Israeli hands and whether Biden has done enough to stop the bloodshed.
You must keep in mind that the Israeli & Hamas leadership are mirrors of each other. Neither is willing to give up political power. Neither is particularly concerned about the welfare of the Gazans. There can be no permanent ceasefire unless BOTH parties are willing to stop shooting and lay down their arms. Negotiations happen now, but are conducted through proxies. Neither side is interested in a 2 state solution. Biden may be able to cut off Israel’s supply of armaments that enables them to fight this war, but I seriously doubt the bloodshed will end. A ceasefire will likely be temporary & one-sided. There is no requirement, or incentive, for Hamas to free the hostages immediately with no pre-conditions.
As a moral matter I think Israel needs to be cut off from US aid. As a practical matter I think very little good will come of it in the long term. Biden is stuck with this issue and I agree he should act rather than continue the jawboning. But let’s be realistic in our expectations regarding outcomes.
Paul in KY
@Ha Nguyen: I think the Russians cheat more than the Israelis. That’s why Russia was banned. Not from their aggressive war on The Ukraine, but because they are a bunch of roided up cheaters.
Mai Naem mobile
Bibi and his RW likudniks are deliberately winding stuff up so that there’s a major international anti- American incident which will negatively affect support for Biden’s relelection. Ukraine not getting aid would just be the cherry on top for Putin and Xi. On top of everything else, I can’t believe Taiwan got hit with a bad earthquake yesterday.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
Shrub and Dump each unilaterally withdrew us from treaties. Treaties have to be passed by Congress to become treaties. Yet they were able to pull us out of those treaties without Congress’ consent. (It’s never made sense to me that they could do that, but that’s what happened.)
So it boggles my mind considerably that Biden couldn’t do the same to a Memorandum of Understanding that’s (at this end) entirely the creation of the Executive Branch.
Jackie
Why is anyone engaging with a sea lion? Waste of time and energy.
Manyakitty
@Jackie: it’s why we have a pie filter.
Betsy
@PeaceisPossible: Sounds like you’d like a good, big slice of PIE 🥧
lowtechcyclist
Cookies and cheesecakes and tortes, oh my! ;-)
Jay
This link was in Adam’s Ukraine War thread last night.
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
Well worth reading.
brendancalling
and just like that Poopispoopable is gone. Thanks!
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: Send me an email.
cain
@Paul in KY:
Also, if a country feels that vulnerable – no way they would have a single supply chain for military supplies. They would try to be self reliant as possible.
Manyakitty
@lowtechcyclist: so adorable and delicious 😋
cain
@Ksmiami:
This. Let’s give up all we worked hard on – and watch the rollback of rights for women, native Americans, and so on and for what? A GOP that will continue to bomb the shit out of Palestinians.
You don’t have to like Biden – but we got Democracy on the line here. It’s not all about the genocide in Israel. If this country goes fascist – this entire planet is going to be in chaos.
cain
@Another Scott:
I would say this will give Biden the cover he needs to get more harsh. They keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Worse the country is getting more and more isolated as even younger Jews are doing ‘wtf?’ – forget the religion – morality is still an important factor of what is going on and at some point Israel’s relationship with the world is going to be severely damaged.
scav
Whirled pease in a pot, nine days old. First time I’ve noticed a technically savory pot pie here, although not at all a tasteful one.
VFX Lurker
That bug has not been patched, but my eyes now automatically skip over any posts with partially-pied nyms.
Paul in KY
@Jay: It’s horrible (IMO). 20 or 30 civilians could be killed if they could get one Hamas goon!?!?
The callousness is right up there with that of the Totenkopf SS (and I do not say this lightly).
VFX Lurker
Not impossible. If you un-pie the person, you can pie them again. If they vary their name in the same thread, sure, they’re partially pied.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: Treaties have language about withdrawal. That’s nothing new – e.g. START II – Article VI, Section 4): (6 page .pdf)
Such language doesn’t seem to be present in this MOU.
My impression is that the drafters of the MOU were more worried about Bibi continually running to Congress and demanding more and more money, and having little or no control over what Bibi did with the money that might be destabilizing (e.g. going nuts with missile defense). So, they wanted a clear MOU to prevent that. They didn’t – for lack of imagination – think about cases where Bibi would try to push all the Gazans into the sea and pave over the West Bank while nobody was looking there. Or, perhaps, they thought that Congress would make sure those things didn’t happen by not appropriating the funding.
:-(
My $0.02. FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@cain: Israel still has to pick and choose where they will be self-reliant. They can produce drones and various missiles, but fighter jets are a diffent proposition. Modern fighter jets and especially their engines require too great an industrial investment for Israel’s size. They gave up on their domestic “Kfir” fighter program in the 1980s, and since have relied on F-16s, F-15s and F-35s that they buy from the U.S. using the ~$3.6 billion annual U.S. subsidy.They get their aerial refuling tankers from us too.
This war has exposed Israel’s deficient domestic weapons production and stockpiles. The US started airlifting weapons and munitions immediately after the October 7 attack and has continued since including by ship, and Israel has used most of what we’ve sent. If they invade southern Lebanon they’ll need even more.
There’s talk now of inshoring Israel’s military needs but that will take years. Right now, they have to fight with what the US and to a lesser extent the UK and Germany provide them.
Another Scott
@PeaceisPossible:
RollCall, like TheHill, stories have to be read carefully.
Reuters.com from March 9:
It seems clear enough to me, but too many want sound bites to be 5 syllables or less. And the political press loves nothing more than gotchas.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jackie
@Manyakitty: I just don’t feed sea lions. When a thread ends up unreadable because it’s full of pie, it’s time for me to move on.
Jay
@Paul in KY:
It’s a combination of rot in the IDF, caused by being used as enforcers for the Settlers and oppressors of anybody who disagrees with Bibi,
rot in the Mossad and Shin Bet, where in they provide politically expedient reports up the chain, rather than factual reports, (eg. feeding Darth Cheney’s Team B with bs. so that BushII could get his Dubya Dubya Me Too on),
And GIGO. Israel has “outsourced” all their intelligence functions, from identification, target evaluation, target elimination, to an AI that sifts through all the massive electronic surveillance Israel collects on Gaza.
Keep in mind that Hamas is the only Civil Government in Gaza, so as far as the AI is concerned, anybody who has a job in Gaza, in any way connected to the Civil Government, is Hamas, so not just the fighters or the leaders, but Postal Workers and Garbagemen too.
Manyakitty
@Jackie: they do tend to kill the mood.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: BUT, also, it’s fueling a round of really dumb antisemitism from people who cannot distinguish the State of Israel from Jews *even if* they disapprove of and publicly protest the actions of the State of Israel. And I can’t help but think that that will have the marginal effect of making supporters double down.
WaterGirl
44 replies to the person who got exactly what they wanted.
We can do better!
Please don’t feed the bears.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: Counterpoint: opinions on what constitutes a “troll” or “sea lion” vary, and I’m fine with folks engaging with that commenter in my thread. They have an opinion that isn’t unheard of in U.S. politics, and they weren’t harassing or abusing people to a degree that’s not tolerated here. There’s a pie filter for folks who don’t want to see the comments.
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
But look at all the goodies I’ve got in my pic-a-nic basket! ;-)
PeaceisPossible
@Betty Cracker: I sincerely appreciate you allowing my voice to be heard.
We don’t need to fear opposing views.
Thanks!
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
I’m gonna say that it doesn’t matter under these circumstances. No agreement can legitimately require one nation to aid and abet another’s war crimes and mass slaughter of civilians. And that’s what Biden should say.
And if Israel doesn’t like it, what exactly are they going to do about it?
Tony G
In an ideal world this would not be the case, but this deliberate, deadly attack on aid workers will have the effect of turning more people against Israel than did the tens of thousands of deaths of Palestinian civilians. This is the latest of several attacks by the IDF on aid workers. It’s obvious to me that Israel is using starvation as a weapon in Gaza, and is therefore treating all attempts by people to alleviate that starvation as enemy acts. Throughout my life I’ve generally been a supporter of Israel but, for me, this is the breaking point.
Glidwrith
@WaterGirl: Mmmmm, delicious and cute pastry!
Jay
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Yi Sima Quan posted this in Adam’s Ukraine Thread,
it’s a follow on detailed investigation by 972 magazine adding to their previous investigations.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Wow. That’s appalling.
Tony G
@Jay: I wonder whether the IDF is measuring its progress by the body-count metric that the U.S. used in Vietnam? As the U.S. military demonstrated in Vietnam, the easiest way to total up an impressive body-count is to just kill a lot of civilians.
Jay
@Tony G:
As the various reports note, Israel isn’t even counting the bodies, they are using the Gazan Heath Ministry’s numbers, which are low, because there are thousands of bodies still under the rubble.
The IAF and IDF are on a genocidal murder spree, because there are no consequences, for them, now.
Paul in KY
@Jay: It’s evil. Even in Ancient Rome, with their ‘Lists of Proscription’, they at least posted them in public where the targets could see their name and/or be told by their loved ones & then flee.
Paul in KY
@Jay: To me, the only thing I can compare it to is what Hulagu Khan and his armies did as a brutal way to tamp down any resistance to their overlords: Ask a city to surrender. If it did not & any force was used to take it, massacre all inhabitants. Then pile their skulls in a big mound and move on.
Nazis did worse, but that was a twisted state policy in the main. Not the combat orders of the day for the Wehrmacht.