CBP continues to upend the lives of tourists and legal immigrants traveling to and from the US. This time, an Australian man, going by the name “Jonathan”, tells the Guardian how his work visa was cancelled at the border as he was returning to the US following a short visit to Australia for his sister’s memorial service. He re-entered the US in Houston, and things went rapidly south:
He says his visa was still valid for more than 12 months and he had left and re-entered the US without any problems about 20 times holding the same class of visa.
He says that over a series of short interviews amounting to about half an hour, the official told him his visa had been cancelled and that he was banned from entering the US for five years, including as a transit passenger. He was told he would be placed on a flight to Australia and was handed a document informing him that he was an “immigrant not in possession of a valid unexpired immigrant visa” as required by the Immigration and Nationality Act. He says he felt he had no choice but to sign the document, which Guardian Australia has seen.
He says the official then told him: “Trump is back in town; we’re doing things the way we should have always been doing them.”
Jonathan says he was told he could ask to speak to the man’s boss, who, he was warned, usually “didn’t have much to say”. He says the boss pointed to the official and told Jonathan: “Whatever he said.”
What’s especially alarming about Jonathan’s case is how the CBP officers implied in their questioning of him that he was dealing drugs or trafficking in human remains (they also asked if he was “retarded” when he didn’t understand one of their questions). Others were detained due to “errors” in their visas; here, the officials seem to have been fishing for a crime to pin on Jonathan.
An Australian man with a US work visa was detained upon reentry, called a “retard” and told, “Trump is back in town; we’re doing things the way we should have always been doing them.”
He was held with 100 people including many Canadians.
Posters celebrating equity had DEI scribbled out in marker.
— Nathan Kalman-Lamb (@nkalamb.bsky.social) April 12, 2025 at 1:04 AM
Also new is the level of arrogance and flippancy from CBP officials – in addition to the “Trump’s back in town” line reported by Jonathan above, Guardian Australia’s requests to CBP for comment on Jonathan’s case were answered with:
A Department of Homeland Security media representative replied that the department “cannot answer questions on something we cannot verify the veracity of”.
“Just like I cannot confirm the existence of big foot.”
It sounds as if Jonathan was pressured into signing paperwork that bars him from the US for five years. He’s couch-surfing with friends in Australia while his girlfriend in the US (an American) tries to figure out next steps. His “entire life,” as he puts it, is in the US.
Imagine traveling through the US, either as a tourist or as someone doing work, and suddenly finding yourself accused of a felony and stripped of all your documents upon arrival. Many, many people from outside the US are imagining that at present. There’s data which suggests foreign visitors are already not coming in the numbers they once did; soon, they’ll stop coming at all.
[UPDATE: Via Baud in the comments, here’s a link to a Financial Times graphic showing cratering visits from European countries:]
You may want to share some of these stories with the normies in your life to help underscore the damage being done to the American reputation abroad, and to prompt them to think about what the US might be doing to people from less “acceptable” countries who are traveling through here when it’s willing to treat white, middle-class Australians and Brits and Canadians and Germans like this.
Even some non-normies may need to hear about them: my parents are well-informed folks who are active in their local Indivisible chapter, and they had not heard about the UK cartoonist Becky Burke at all.
Anyway, welcome to the weekend, I guess.
Martin
May dad’s French friends are coming in a few days. As proud communists, they’re worried. This might be their last visit.
We’ve had an idle wondering discussion about leaving the country (I’m the one most strongly wanting to stay). My son has a good job here and we don’t want to leave him behind, but the tariffs might relieve him of the job depending on where they go. He’s gotten interest from two companies for jobs in Taiwan, so that may work itself out on its own. The discussion for the rest of us has shifted from idly considering leaving to more seriously thinking of just moving our daughter. This country has been an absolute shitshow for her and there’s going to be fuckall opportunities for her to make a career here going forward. It feels like a disservice for her to stay.
Ryan
Coming soon to a country near you.
Link
eclare
That story is terrifying. I am a US citizen, but I don’t plan to travel internationally anytime soon. I lost my passport in 1996, and in my most recent overseas travel in 2015 I was still flagged for extra questioning about it. I have no idea where CBP would hold me or send me, and I don’t intend to find out.
Jack Canuck
Talked to my Dad today. He’s a Canadian with (now) American citizenship, living in Illinois. He and his wife have decided to drop a planned trip to Newfoundland because they don’t feel confident he’d actually be allowed back in, what with his less than Trump-friendly online presence and all. This is the first time we’ve talked since the Beast got back in, and they frankly described it all as very frightening. Both my parents are in their 80s and I’m praying that I won’t need to decide whether or not I go to the US (from where I live in Australia, which I’m now a citizen of) in the next several years.
YY_Sima Qian
That is why I am not taking my wife & daughters to the U.S. this summer. I told my bosses that I am reevaluating whether I want to make the business trip, myself.
gene108
Fascinating actions by Trump and CBP, considering the U.S. will play host to the two largest international sporting events in the world in the next three years.
I wonder how badly they’ll fuck those events up despite the best efforts of planners and organizers.
Also, looks like CBP agents are arbitrarily making decisions about who to let into the country, despite someone like Jonathan having 12 months on his visa.
eclare
@gene108:
I predict World Cup matches in Canada and Mexico will rapidly sell out.
As for the Olympics, they’re in Los Angeles, which the FFOTUS hates, so he probably hopes for failure.
Martin
@gene108: Yeah, my read of this is that there’s no actual procedure here. One thing that made countries like the US good places to visit is that it wouldn’t matter what port of entry you used, you’d have essentially the same experience. That’s a sign of a good government, with documented procedures, good communication and supervision of workers, accountability for not following them, etc. When that goes away, that’s when places stop being safe, when corruption skyrockets, etc.
hells littlest angel
CNN:
Uh, I think we know why.
JoyceH
I really don’t understand what’s the purpose here. Foreign tourists and foreign students are such an enormous income stream into the country. Does Trump and the MAGAs just hate the entire rest of the world enough to forego that income for no gain other than to allow one of their minor minions to be a snarling jackass?
Ryan
@JoyceH: Remember, if anyone makes even a single dollar, it must mean that America is being screwed. That’s his whole mindset.
NotMax
Weekend long watch.
An hour with Obama.
gene108
@JoyceH:
Other than “cruelty is the point”, I don’t think there’s anymore coherence to what they are doing. I’ve known a few people on visas who were pulled for extra questioning. It was never this bad or arbitrary in deciding to allow someone into the country. Person might waste an hour or two waiting to be questioned, and as long their visa was valid, and they had other supporting documents*, they’d be let through.
*If you came on a work visa paystubs to verify you are still employed helps, for example.
ETA:
I think Trump and the rest of his cabal do hate the rest of the world, with the exception of Putin’s Russia. They are authoritarians, who hate the idea that not everyone will grovel at their feet.
eclare
@gene108:
Don’t forget us, they also hate all Americans.
It will be interesting to see the hit FL tourism takes, the state gets a lot of international visitors.
TS
What is wrong with these people, how does anyone get away with this type of action? The US is a dictatorship – way too late to say otherwise
washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/04/11/trump-law-firms-deals-orders/
Trump’s punishments and the deals firms have made with him have rattled the legal community, with attorneys fearing that his crackdown will imperil what causes and cases firms are willing to take up. The latest deals on Friday marked an increase in the pledges and pushed the combined amount to nearly $1 billion across nine law firms.
Not content with owning the SCOTUS, he wants every lawyer in the country to refuse to work on cases against the administration!!!
Geminid
Talks between Iranian Foreign Secretary Araungchi and Trump envoy Steve Witkoff should be underway in Oman now. The subject: Iran’s nuclear program. From reporting by Axios’s Barak Ravid and others, the parties intend this initial meeting to establish whether the other is serious about a diplomatic resolution– a “deal”– or is just stringing the other along.
In related news, International Atomic Energy Agency Director Rafael Grossi says he will visit Iran in coming weeks. Grossi met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Beijing yesterday.
NotMax
@Geminid
Witkoff is so far out of his depth when it comes to diplomacy and the nuances of foreign negotiation he may as well show up wearing a dozen sets of water wings.
Rusty
An important export is American college education. The students typically pay full tuition which is good for the universities, it builds good will around the world by having people, often the more elite of a country with experience in the US, and percentage of bright, well educated folks end up staying and enriching the US economically and culturally. But we are throwing that all away. Add that starting next year the size of the pool of high school seniors is going to shrink (18 years from the 2008 recession when the birth rate dropped), and universities (ignore the small percentage of highly selective schools, they will always have enough applicants) are going to be hurting for students and revenue. It’s all so self destructive on the part of the US.
lowtechcyclist
@JoyceH:
Fixed, and yes.
Fester Addams
I’ve become curious about the process by which Customs and Border Patrol was staffed by the sort of people willing to make it into Trump’s gestapo. Must have taken some time. Are they just attracted to that kind of work?
lowtechcyclist
My current fantasy is that some of the countries that were our allies just three months ago decide to spring an amphibious assault on Mar-a-Lago one night when Trump is there. It catches our military completely off guard, they kidnap Trump and haul him off to The Hague where he’s tried for crimes against humanity, and he spends the rest of his life in a European prison cell.
Totally unrealistic, alas.
Rose Judson
@Fester Addams: I also wonder this. Over 20 years of coming to the US as an expat, I have definitely encountered some assholes at the border (utterly humorless demands to know why I would want to live outside the USA, sharp-toned questioning of The Child as to whether I’m actually her mother, where her father is, etc.), but I didn’t think it could possibly be so widespread within the agency. Apparently I was wrong.
Baud
Rose Judson
@Martin:
It’s just heartbreaking that we all have to make these decisions now. I hope your family is able to find a way forward. I have relatives with a trans daughter just entering adulthood; they’re moving from a red state to a blue state as an intermediary step to moving abroad somewhere.
Baud
Geminid
Replrts are that Witkoff is being assisted by the Nation Security Council’s Middle East director Richard(?) Trager and a couple State Department officials with some knowledge of nuclear matters. Trager was a long-time Republican staffer for the Senate Armed Services Committee. But it sounds like tbis meeting is more about “vibes” than technical matters.
Witkoff’s principal qualification is he is known to have his boss’s confidence, and Trump has signaled he wants to make a deal.
The IAEA is inspecting Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities already, and claims to have accurate knowledge regarding quantity and enrichment level of Iran’s U-235 stocks. So the technical details of a deal are not neccesarily that complicated.
They could be complicated if administration hardliners like Marco Rubio and Michael Waltz have their say. They want to see Iran’s enrichment and related facilities physical dismantled, by the US military if neccesary and maybe even preferably. So does Israeli PM Netanyahu. But I’m not sure if Trump really cares what Rubio, Waltz or Netanyahu think.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lowtechcyclist: Remember Trump appears to have already suffered stroke, and he is in a high stress job.
Rose Judson
@Baud: Thanks for this – added the graphic at the link to the post up top.
Suzanne
@Martin:
This is how I feel. This country hates children and young people, and doesn’t invest in their health, education, and prosperity.
lowtechcyclist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Not so sure it’s a high-stress job the way he does it. Also, this is the first I’ve heard that he might’ve had a stroke. (Aware of the likely dementia, of course.)
ETA: Besides, I want the SOB to pay some sort of price for what he’s done. A quick death is too good for him.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
And given the budget the House just passed, it’s clear they’re not all that keen on old people either.
MagdaInBlack
@lowtechcyclist: I was thinking same: if he gave a shit it would be stressful, but he does not.
Baud
How to message
Viva BrisVegas
This July I’ve got a cruise in Alaska that has been planned for nearly two years now. If I cancelled it, I’d lose thousands.
My point of entry is Vancouver. Had it been Seattle I would have cancelled it.
I’m assuming that the amount of fuckery that Trump’s goons can get up to is limited in Canada.
I’m also assuming the US/Canadian border will be open.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lowtechcyclist: Watch the right side of his body. Something is not right there.
Baud
@Rose Judson:
Here’s the article.
ft.com/content/6dc16a54-8de1-4f3b-8409-ecb566118127
Princess
It is clear that they have a daily quota and they need to fill it. Here’s why this is scary for everyone: once people with visas stop coming to the US, there’s no reason to think they’ll quotas will go down. And then they’ll target Americans.
The first stories were about people they had a genuine but technical and usually ignored reason to stop, like the British girl or people with minor past convictions. Then they stopped temporary work visa holders like musicians with scheduled concerts. Now they’re stopping people with valid lengthy work visas. They’re going to knock out all the HB1 people too I’m sure. And then….
Baud
I assume beef farmers are mostly Republican.
sentient ai from the future
so i was considering taking a quick trip across the border, either north or south, in order to open a foreign bank account denominated in either CAD or MXN.
wondering what i actually have to disclose to CBP if asked, since i know it’s not like talking to a cop. seems unwise to offer up my usual hostility to cops, e.g. “lawyer? lawyer.”
Trivia Man
@Rusty: I speculate that severely reducing the numbers of chinese students is part of their goal hete. Many of the “car dealership” republicans would like to see fewer Asian students at the good universities because then Biff Jr can get in more easily.
Really curious the impact on Wisconsin colleges. About 10 years ago, Scott Walker and the gerrymandered Assembly doubled and tripled down on anti-gay legislation. It caused many gay faculty to quit and move to civilized states. Im frankly shocked it didn’t drive away even more, clearly they felt supported enough by the institution and direct peers.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat)
As another expat working in higher education, I don’t feel I can recommend the US to students who want to study abroad or go to graduate school. I know the English Dept. Chair, a fellow American, is considering the one program we have to the US. The other programs are to Australia and Canada. I plan to go back to the US in the summer and am crossing my fingers that things don’t get worse.
Princess
@Baud: China tariffs will really hurt Target too. Sad — I used to love Target. Not now.
Trivia Man
About 1985 Cheech and Chong made the movie Born in East LA. Cheech is at a party dressed as a rabbit or something. Immigration raids the party, he is accidentally knocked out in the scramble. He wakes up in mexico. Even as a citizen he cant get over the border without papers so he sneaks back. Hijinx ensue. I wonder how it holds up these days.
rusty
@Rose Judson: There don’t need to be too many evil people in the immigration system to bring it down into the gutter. As someone mentioned above, making the system more arbitrary quickly degrades everything. If getting through immigration is arbitrary, foreign visitors, students and workers won’t come. Those officials will get rewarded under this administration, and adding quotas makes even the most reluctant official start to act in more negative ways. The last three months has been a brutal lesson in how fragile much of our system is, and how bad faith management can rapidly corrupt and destroy systems that took a generation or more to build. This is a very hard lesson for the country, and we need some long conversations how we make these systems more robust in the future. Whatever comes next can’t look like what we have now, that has failed.
Princess
@tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat): I’m thinking of the study abroad trips I lead while I was a professor in the States, in Europe and the Middle East. Lots of international students would go on them. They’d be nuts to now.
lowtechcyclist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Then I’d have to watch him. Nope.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
He’ll grab the credit for lowering the price of steak and burger.
Baud
This right here, Reddit comment.
bjacques
My partner is Australian and got hassled on arrival several years ago over that stupid 3-part paper entry form CBP used then—the one where you submitted one section on arrival in the US (IAH, Mickey Leland International terminal) and a second part upon leaving, to prove for your next visit you hadn’t overstayed on this one. (Russia used the same one in 2002.) She forgot to turn in the second section because nobody asked for it (because the CBP doesn’t seem to check foreigners when they leave). They threatened to send her back but gave her the chance to find a way while in the US to show she had left. We sent photocopies of her passport with entry and exit stamps for some other country (Singapore or Malaysia) from after her previous US visit and that was that.
But now there’s no way we’re going back to the US for awhile. “Trump’s back in town” sounds like “It’s Giuliani time”.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: When the PRC sanctioned Australian beef, barley, coal & wines in 2020, the U.S. talked a good game of supporting allies against “CCP” coercion, but was more than happy to fill the vacuum. Now the shoe is on the other foot, not that Australia has the motivation to even offer rhetorical support to MAGA.
Baud
Rabbit on rabbit violence.
Scout211
The mainstream US news services are actually starting to report on this. I just read a similar article (to the one that Rose posted) published this morning on USA Today I hope other mainstream news services keep reporting on this.
sab
Our whole government seems to be in free fall, and Ohio’s newest senator ( Husted) thinks it is a good use of his time to introduce legislation banning SNAP users from buying soft drinks, candy and desserts with their SNAP cards.
Lapassionara
@lowtechcyclist: We need something to happen, and quickly, or we will be beyond salvaging. The borrowing costs or the US are moving ever higher, and the Republicans are doing their best to increase the deficit and debt.
prostratedragon
@Baud: No need to go past the first comment.
Baud
@Lapassionara:
There’s nothing to be done as long as the majority of white people cling to Republicans. That’s the only group of people Republicans care about.
Baud
@prostratedragon:
That was brilliant.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat)
@Princess: We have already had problems with foreign students who want to study abroad. To be fair, it is not only the US. It has happened with Canada and Australia with students who have had Peruvian, Filipino, and Nepalese passports. Japanese students had no problems getting the necessary visas and paperwork through the embassies of the relevant country but non-Japanese students were rejected in some cases, which was heartbreaking as they had earned the study abroad through their GPA. Now, I wonder if even Japanese passports will be dinged for one reason or another.
Suzanne
@Trivia Man: The reduced public funding to public universities over the last decades has been a disaster, IMO…. it is very difficult to get a low-cost degree in one’s own state in most places. Which is, after all, the core educational mission of public universities. Universities have pursued international students, who pay full freight, to help fill this gap.
To be clear about my position, because the couple of village idiots who come to these comment sections to work through their personality disorders like to distort others’ words….. I believe American public universities should be free or very low-cost for residents within their states, with increased funding by the public, and we can also welcome large numbers of international students.
Princess
@sab: And Michigan’s newest Dem senator thinks the big issue now is stopping the import of Chinese made cars. Glad she has nothing more serious to worry about.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat)
@Scout211: Just popped over to US Today and the top center headline is how foreign tourists are treated as criminals. I’m glad to see this getting notice. I read the Guardian’s article on the Canadian traveler and the emotions that ran through me at her treatment and the treatment of the other women ran the gamut from shame to rage to despair. How have we sunk so far?
Baud
@Princess:
Husted is demonizing poor people. Slotkin is pandering to UAW.
Suzanne
@Princess: Gretchen Whitmer didn’t cover herself in glory this week, either.
There is a time for a discussion of tariffs as one tool among many to be used selectively and judiciously to benefit American industry and workers. That time is not now, and it would be great if Dems could not interrupt their enemy while he is making a mistake.
Baud
Internet: “Dems need to reach out to the working class!”
Internet: “Not like that!”
prostratedragon
@Baud: Yes, they do want to wreck the university system for a generation, don’t they? Consider just the amount of trained legal and forensic talent that would be needed to begin an effective fix in several years, all while completing some huge investigations and trials. Hard to prepare to scale up in this environment. Then there are the other areas …
Someone has probably thought of this. It would be why they’re starting with the Ivies and other of the biggest universities for those areas. Maybe they’ll just end up finding out how good Wayne State is. (Whatsisname already knows how good Howard is.)
Professor Bigfoot
This is true, but we’d take it.
Scout211
You knew that Erik Prince‘s name would pop up eventually in this horror.
Ugh.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Acorns, blind squirrels, etc.
artem1s
@Lapassionara: that’s bizarre of Husted considering Ohio has been allowing products that are essentially nothing but sugar to be sold as ‘food’ and so not subject to sales tax. Dems and some GOPers have been trying to reverse that policy for decades but the usual nonsense prevails to enable Pepsi and corn growers to continue to poison us with high fructose corn syrup.
YY_Sima Qian
Apple’s viability is being threatened by the Sino-US trade embargoes:
Unique among consumer electronic brands, Apple also purchases a lot capital equipment and place them in the factories of their suppliers in the PRC, for the exclusive use of making parts for Apple products. These now risk become stranded assets.
We will soon have turnovers situation where all of the iPhones assembled in India, hitherto mostly to serve the Indian market, will be sent to the U.S. (but will still only cover a fraction of the demand, the rest still needs to come from the PRC). iPhones will be shipped from the PRC to India for the Indian market.
It will take years for Apple to shift enough of its supply chain to satisfy the U.S. market. (Or maybe not, if the tariffs & subsequent recession depresses demand in the U.S.) Whatever happens, Apple could be in a world of hurt.
Among the retaliatory tools in the PRC arsenal, the PRC government could choose to attack Apple’s market share in the PRC, which is already under pressure from Huawei. Only 10 – 15% of the export price of an iPhone represent value added in the PRC. The most expensive components – SOC (the main semiconductor chip), modem, memory, display, camera module – are all sourced from South Korea, Taiwan, Japan & the U.S. Having Huawei take Apple’s market share in the PRC is actually better for the PRC economy, as almost 100% of the value added goes to the domestic supply chain. Apple had planned to add Chinese vendors for display modules and memories in 2020, initially in devices for the PRC market, but the political zeitgeist surrounding the Sino-US tech war scuttled that attempt.
I suspect Tim Cook can mobilize enough of the SV TechBros to prevail on the Trump Administration to give it an exemption, but the price could entail bribes to Trump’s inner circle, & accommodations w/ MAGA policies.
VeniceRiley
Can confirm the general mood over here – Stronger on the continent though than in Brexitannia.
I would love to visit my sister, but she’ll have to come here.
Meanwhile, the spouse has a formal written apology from the RAF and has an invite to a beret presentation (they took them when they hunted gays to kick out) and BBQ at the commander’s and the officers club or some such. A stipend and a plus one included. Just a ray of hope for y’all that decency and class can and does still exist in government and armed forces somewhere. Don’t lose hope you can get it back someday.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: You know, you could be denounced for saying anything
badfactual about “white people.”Betty
I received one of those silly email form letters from my Senator, Dave McCormack, yesterday and was moved to waste a few minutes sending a comment to his website asking him what he was doing to stop the wanton destruction of the US Government by Musk and his team. I added that I am terrified by the dismantling of Social Security and frightened by the foray into the FDIC. I expect no response, but I needed to remind him he was elected to represent us – for what that’s worth.
sab
@Lapassionara: They have no idea about what an advantage it is to have the world’s reserve currency. Instead we will become like a state government, frantically cutting everything to keep in balance.
Spanky
@Scout211:
It’s a stupid and horrific idea, so of course they’re going to go with it.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Am I the blind squirrel?
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: Pandering to the UAW by leaning into Sinophobia & “solving” nonexistent problems? Yes, not like that!
Surely you realize inflating the China threat, & encouraging constituents to believe that foreigners are the source of their ills, are fertilizing the sociopolitical soil for MAGA?
Are there no other ways to “pander” to the UAW? Such as limiting Detroit 3’s ability to do stock buy backs, & incentivize them to invest more in R&D and product development? Or better yet, stand up against attempts to neuter unions & worker protection?
lowtechcyclist
@YY_Sima Qian:
Last time I checked, Apple had more cash than it knew what to do with. I’m not gonna shed a tear for them quite yet.
Maybe they’ll be forced to slow the pace of upgrades, and support legacy phones for longer. Silver lining!
sentient ai from the future
@Suzanne: “land grant universities” i’d always heard them referred to as. intended to provide learning and assistance to the people in the state doing the basic work of building up a society — growing the food for that society.
it occurs to me that funding for cooperative extension services, which are a lifeline for rural people with land to work, is precisely the sort of thing that DOGE would capriciously line-item.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
No. Those don’t work. There’s only social bigotry and trade protectionism.
ETA: I’ve listened to people for two decades romanticize the white working class and heap all the blame on Dems for the way they vote.
I’m going to laugh my ass off when the free traders make a big comeback in the post-Trump US.
VeniceRiley
I am getting a front row seat to this dynamic here. They’re going to enter the Liz Truss level of the Find Out portion.
Personally, I hope we rejoin the EU and the Euro becomes the default currency for the west, and the world.
Suzanne
@sentient ai from the future: There are many state universities (public) that are not land-grant universities.
sab
I am currently wondering if it is even safe to contact my senator. Probably it won’t even be read, but what if it is and is forwarded to WH?
My whole retirement fund is evaporating because of the tariff nonsense, and you are wasting your time on SNAP strictures. There is a bill in the works to limit the power of the president to fuck with tariffs without Congressional approval, but instead you are looking at SNAP?
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin, y’all.
Cool here today … 50 degrees. Waiting for it to warm up a little more so I can get back to work … building (really, assembling) a playcenter for the g’babies.
As for the topic, FFS. And the problem is Trump’s base see this as a feature, not a bug. Idiots.
Suzanne
@Baud: The irony for me personally….. much of my family is actual “white working class” and they would sooner rub shit in their hair than vote for TFG. You think we have loathing….
BellyCat
@Suzanne: While I agree with you, two central problems getting there: (1) Administrative ranks and salaries have ballooned in the past thirty years and the number and amount of salary isn’t going to be voluntarily cut; and (2) campus building programs (and operating costs for these buildings) have skyrocketed.
Martin likely has more detailed insights here but, in sum, universities have responded to educational loans for in-state students (1/2 tuition) and the influx of international students (full tuition) by, guess what…. RAISING TUITION EXPONENTIALLY.
Another knock-on effect is that to become a professor, only the wealthy or well-funded American’s are able to obtain a Ph.D. (now required in virtually every field, yes.. including architecture), while foreign students whose education was cheap or free, can get there more easily and with less debt. Great system!
Baud
@Suzanne:
I wish your family represented the majority of that demo. We’d be in a Golden Age rather than Hell on Earth.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: Then the UAW (at least the leadership) is not worth pandering to. It’s not like Dem presidents (Obama & Biden) hadn’t pandered enough to manufacturing sector unions w/ protectionist measures, which undermined the interests of the rest of the economy, failed to make the protected sectors competitive, & unnecessarily undermined the U.S.’ credibility w/ trade partners.
Biden had already slapped a 100% tariff on PRC made EVs, and issued an EO that banned vehicles w/ Chinese software. What more does the UAW want from the Dems, as opposed keeping their fire trained on the reactionaries that want to bust them into irrelevance?
Nukular Biskits
Is anyone tracking how many American citizens are being hassled by the CPB since Trump took office?
I don’t want to suggest this is somehow on the same level of detaining/deporting legit immigrants (those with valid visas, greencards, etc) but I gotta wonder, given the hostility of CPB agents reported above, they’ve got to be looking real hard at citizens as well, just looking for any excuse.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Don’t know about CPB. ICE has hassled citizens, mostly those of Hispanic descent, on the assumption that they are non-citizens.
Suzanne
@BellyCat: Agreed. The hurdles are so significant that it will not happen in my lifetime. But I will always consider it a societal failure, and more evidence that Americans hate children and young people.
Suzanne
@Baud: Much of the commentariat here would have issues with some of them. They like Bernie and AOC more than most of y’all.
sab
@Suzanne: Your family sounds like the family I married into. My birth family is management class but racially diverse so very pro-DEI. Only one of them is still Republican. I cut off all contact with him when he made a wisecrack about his “halfbreed” nephews.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Last evening I heard Jasmine Crockett refer to this era as “The Age of Lies.”
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Yeah, the incidents I’ve heard about with citizens being detained haven’t been at the border–they’ve been ICE agents just scooping people off the street because they heard them speaking Spanish, or they were caught up in a raid initially aimed at somebody else.
But Trump is openly talking about deporting “violent” citizens, so we can assume he’s looking for any excuse.
Baud
@Suzanne:
As long as their like of those two doesn’t manifest itself as hatred of other Dems, I got no problem with that.
YY_Sima Qian
@lowtechcyclist: All that cash will get quickly burned through if sales collapses. The U.S. market account for ~ 40% of all iPhone sales. It is also one of the “Magnificent 7” stocks that have been propping up the U.S. equities market. A correction is long overdue, but a crash will hurt regular people much more than the large capital owners.
Apple could absorb a 54% tariff from their fat margins, but not a 145% tariff. It is also set to be one of the key customers for the TSMC fabs in Arizona. Those fabs are only viable w/ highly profitable U.S. customers willing to pay a premium for “Made in the USA”.
Nukular Biskits
@lowtechcyclist:
That’s because you’re not a “people” if you’re not wealthy, “conservative”, and, especially, white.
Suzanne
@Baud: One of my BILs had to seriously hold his nose to vote for HRC and Biden, but he did it.
This is why I have an issue with the constant griping about the leftist Berniebros. It’s not where the obstacles to winning lie. The “politically incoherent” are the much larger and more mercurial group. It’s like complaining about paper cuts while your arm has been severed.
prostratedragon
Liz Truss has a chapter in the new book, Free Trade in the 21st Century: “My Experiences of Global Trade Negotiations.” Though the chapter is 13 pages long, it is not a diary of her experiences as the PM, but mainly discusses her earlier tenure as the lead free trade negotiator for the UK.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Interesting discussion on that… but as per usual, NO ONE on that thread even considers the effect of white male supremacy in this cycle. Inevitably it’s because the feckless “Democrats won’t do this that and the other thing!”
As you say, so long as Americans* insist on voting for and empowering neo-Confederate white supremacists, this is where we’ll be.
Terraformer
@lowtechcyclist: what a pleasant fiction, hopefully a reality show soon
Baud
@Suzanne:
BernieBros are people who are against us. Not people who don’t like a particular candidate but do the right thing.
I have no problem with people pushing back against people who are against us.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
MS’s junior US Senator, Cindy Hyde-Smith, was (and still is, AFAIK) a cattle rancher before she became MS’s Ag Commissioner and then US Senator.
She regularly opines about the well-being of her fellow ranchers (and, to a lesser extent, farmers) but, so far, hasn’t stood up for them in light of tariffs.
IOW, so far, she’s choosing Trump over her own constituents, most of whom voted for him. I suspect a major case of FAFO is about to visit them soon, if it hasn’t already, and then she’ll have to make a decision.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: The internet is the blind squirrel here. You are the acorn! ;-)
Chief Oshkosh
Boy, I wish. My very first international travel, almost 50 years ago, included a layover in Dallas on the way back, where I got to see how the then-equivalent of CBP officers treated non-US citizens. And they were rude enough to us. I saw it quite often over the years, even at the Canadian border as a US citizen driving back from Canada.
If we ever win again, CBP and ICE simply need to be ended, replaced with new.
Paul in KY
@YY_Sima Qian: Do not blame you at all. Sorry it has come to this.
rusty
I was reading Heather Cox Richardson this morning, and at the end of her email she mentioned “Military Mission for Sealing the Southern Border of the United States and Repelling Invasions”, and stated it was a memorandum from last night that would make the border a military zone, thereby allowing the military to arrest anyone in that zone. She didn’t provide a link. A quick look found a handful of news articles, stating its about doing this to public land along the border. This seems like a big deal, maybe it’s just because it was from last night it hasn’t made a bigger splash. I screw up links, but a quick search on Google news will find legitimate news agencies with at least something. Any better sources?
Paul in KY
@gene108: Oh fuck. They are going to make both into complete shitshows (if the ‘Miller Types’ have their way).
Suzanne
@Baud: The vast majority of Bernie’s voters slid on over to vote the right way. The dead-enders are obnoxious but again, they’re numerically and culturally insignificant.
I really try not to be ride-or-die for any of our candidates. There are some of them I like more than others, but ultimately they’re all replaceable and they should be working in service of an agenda rather than themselves.
Van Buren
@rusty: The majority of places foreign tourists go to in big numbers are in blue states, so MAGA is happy to cut back on numbers and cause pain.
Paul in KY
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It’s never been stressful for him as he’s never actually done it. That was another of his ‘super powers’ that helped him to whomp Pres. Biden in that debate.
Edit: can see others got there way before me.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Well, squirrels don’t wear pants, do they?
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Reminds me of a response I got from the opinion editor of the local mullet wrapper a few years ago where I criticized them for running a LTE that was blatantly bigoted against immigrants. Her response is that particular letter was tame compared to the overwhelming majority they received on the subject.
sentient ai from the future
@Baud: when i was over at LGM, i tried to characterize it consistently as the “Doing It Wrong Caucus” because it was the same fucking people, all the time.
Chief Oshkosh
@Suzanne:
This country also hates the olds, and has for a long, long time. This country also hates minorities and women.
It’s almost like This Country has a history of being run by white men.
Professor Bigfoot
@Suzanne: I have noticed this… I know quite a few white people— am related to some— who are straight up WWC folk— who absolutely despise that marigold MF.
It’s the “small business owner” whites; the plumber who’s built his business up so he has a nice big house… it’s the real estate agents, the construction company owners, the people who have money but no education.
Generally.
BellyCat
@Paul in KY: Presidential elections are basically a “Have a Beer” test. People with empathy and/or critical thinking skills vote Dem/Progressive. People with grievances/power/money/religious cravings vote Repub/Regressive.
Which side will get more votes counted is the game going forward.
artem1s
@YY_Sima Qian: what’s happening w Apple is a pretty good example of how unrealistic it is to expect manufacturing to return to the US at the drop of a hat. However, Apple is pretty strategic in how it deals with market demand. They’ve been doing buy back promotions for decades on all their products. And the titanium bodies can take being refurbished in ways that plastic phones and laptops won’t. The Japanese car makers were able to break into the US even though they cost more due to tariffs and that was because people wanted safer, more fuel efficient and reliable cars. The US manufacturers tried for decades to force buyers to accept an inferior product but despite that the Honda Accord still became the second highest sold model in the US. Brand loyalty is typically higher with Honda and Toyota, largely because you knew the damn thing would run forever. And if you couldn’t afford to buy new, you could buy and rely on a used Honda or Toyota certified vehicle. And if you could buy new, you got a great deal on trading in your used one.
I think some of the unions supporting these tariff isn’t just punishing China or Canada, it’s to punish consumers who wouldn’t bend the knee and accept inferior, throw away, and energy inefficient US brands over the last 40 years. It’s another form of pwning the libs and their fancy hybrids and EVs and smart phones. Unfortunately all the rubes who are celebrating this don’t realize the supply chain problems that happened during COVID are about to smack them in the ass again. Where is the bulk of toilet paper made? The cheaper brands come from Canada and China. But even the US manufactured brands get their pulp from softwood from Canada. Georgia manufactures and exports TP. They have softwood. But only until the next force 5 hurricane wipes them out for a decade (Hugo). And that’s not accounting for the next drought in GA when they won’t have any water to make Coke or TP. What softwood the US does have is going to be used on paper products. So the impact on housing repair, renovating and building new may be going up a lot more than even some commenters have predicted.
Anyway, once again the LEFP is not prepared for how these tariffs are going to affect the supply chains despite the fact that we all witnessed it up close and personal just 2-3 years ago.
Suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot:
My cousin is a real estate agent and she absolutely detests FFOTUS. Of course, her husband and kids are Black.
There’s a lot of tradesman-type people who love Trump. Lots of nurses, too. Laborer level, not owners. Much of it is aesthetic, IMO. All the stuff that we see as low….. the Big Macs and the cheap performance and the red hats…. they like it.
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: To me, they’re the type that if you don’t have some kind of documented proof (film of them completing their absentee ballot and mailing it) of them voting ‘right’, then I tend not to believe them.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I’m not sure about cultural. But no matter how numerous they are, no one should have a problem with people pushing back against them.
ETA: Because of how many people vote Republican, the dead enders don’t need to pull huge numbers to sway elections.
BellyCat
@Suzanne: The “nurse” group is an unusual one. My sense is that the loathing for hospital administrators and docs who make their efforts less effective (or harder) drives this group who one would think are more empathic. (Thinking of BC’s comment about her mother, a nurse).
Paul in KY
@Professor Bigfoot: Those who are outwardly ‘Christian’ (with some exceptions) of the Southern Baptist and Pentecostal types (they sort of remind me of the Pharisees), follow him slavishly.
sab
@artem1s: Thanks for the heads up. Time to hoard tp again. Hadn’t thought of that.
YY_Sima Qian
@prostratedragon: Truss’ tenure as PM didn’t last long enough to fill 13 sentences. A cabbage would have had more to say.
Paul in KY
@BellyCat: To me, TFG (and Repubs in general) are trying out the “will these jokers who are all about grievance and sticking it to someone still vote for us if we’re the ones causing their pain?”
Can our ‘You Can Fool Some Of The People All Of The Time Coalition” be big enough to win us these Pres elections?
Suzanne
@Baud: To me, it’s a question of priorities. Push back against stupidity wherever you find it, sure. But if we want to win stuff, we’ve got to add a coalition together. I’m struggling with this question because there’s so many of these incoherent, Ariana Grande types, and some of them are probably Bernie/AOC fans, or maybe just curious. There were definitely people who voted for Trump and AOC because they like that emotional valence. We have more defections in that swingy center.
Princess
@YY_Sima Qian: Exactly. And whatever Fain pretends, the auto deals with Canada and Mexico have been good for the UAW, and for Michigan. He and Slotkin are pandering to the UAW by lying to them and furthering Trump’s deluded take on trade.
lowtechcyclist
@artem1s:
Yeppers. We eventually wore out a 1986 Accord and a 2000 Accord, both were reliable through 200K miles. The ’09 Accord is at 190K and doing fine. The 2016 Civic is still under 60K miles so its reliability hasn’t been tested yet, but I may be driving that car until it’s time for the nursing home.
We don’t have to buy new cars very often because we buy Hondas, and that’s why we keep buying them.
Suzanne
@BellyCat: Nurses are still largely working-class women and lots of them feel disrespected by doctors. There’s class dynamics at work that we gloss over here.
bluefoot
@Matt McIrvin: at the risk of being all pedantic here, I don’t think “deporting” is the right word. Deportation has due process around it. And I’m not sure it can be applied to a US citizen. Maybe “renditioning”? I don’t know.
Princess
@Suzanne: I think it’s super unhealthy to be ride or die for any senior politician. Our first priority needs to be, what are you going to do for me, my values, and the people I’m concerned about.
YY_Sima Qian
@artem1s: Yes, this will be reminiscent of the early 2020 COVID-19 supply chain shock, except Chinese factories mostly resumed operations by Mar. as most of the country (except Hubei Province) exited lock downs. This one will last indefinitely, & only mitigated in the short to medium term by rerouting through 3rd countries.
Just like the pandemic shock, the inflation will not be just caused by tariffs & higher costs of supply, but also businesses taking advantage of the excuse to price gauge.
Princess
@Professor Bigfoot: what one calls the petit bourgeoisie. The car dealership owner. Uneducated past high school, maybe, except in technical skills, but wealthy.
Theyre killing universities so no one will be educated past high school except in technical skills.
Princess
@BellyCat: My hunch with nurses is that they’re white women married to MAGA men. I’ve watched white women shift from Dem supporting liberals to MAGA after getting married, turning on a dime.
(and btw I’m not excusing them or blaming their husbands. They 100% own that. But it’s one reason it’s hard for Dem white women to reach them and shift them. Patriarchy wins out.)
Anyway
@Nukular Biskits: I mentioned my WestAfrican now naturalized US citizen friend who flew to JFK from Bamako on Monday. I was anxious after reading all these reports and he laughed when I asked him to have his naturalization certificate to hand though he has a US passport. But he wasn’t asked any extra questions or anything and got through smoothly. Said the line was moving at a brisk pace.
we had a couple of Indian colleagues visit this week — dunno what kind of visa they had — they reported an easy pass through immigration as well.
BellyCat
@Paul in KY: Sadly, a large number of people will eat a LOT of shit to “Have a Beer” with a wealthy person who doesn’t (openly) look down on them AND will affirm every base impulse they have.
How many in 3 .5 years? We’ll see… I suspect the number will be larger than rational people can imagine. The worse the crisis, the greater the desire for an authoritarian.
BellyCat
@Princess: Agreed. Seen it IRL too many times.
Suzanne
@Princess: I think most of them are just politically incoherent. Most people are, and they just want shit to work. Dems were in the unenviable position last cycle of having to defend a lot of stuff that isn’t working great. The burn-it-down position is idiotic but appealing.
“The trains ran on time” is a cliche for a reason.
Kayla Rudbek
@rusty: CBP is an agency that needs to be broken up and have many of the current employees fired
Kayla Rudbek
@BellyCat: although there are a fair amount of narcissists and mean girls who become nurses as well (it’s a position having some power and influence over others, and not requiring as much education as medical school, so probably easier to get into, and socially acceptable even for conservative women)
BellyCat
Federal Government was 4.3% of total workforce in 1960. Today it is 1.9%. Interestingly, local government is 4 times larger. One wonders if the local government impression is driving the federal impression. See Calculated Risk
Anyway
@YY_Sima Qian:
My suspicion is they’ ll be okay with doing that — they’re all good with cozying up to authoritarians — it’s not like paying, god forbid, slightly higher taxes…
I will never get over the report of Tim Cook, Pichai, Zuck, Musk and the rest of the gang attending church with Cheetolini during the inauguration. They have no shame. They disrespect D pols and suck up to Rs. Disgusting.
Paul in KY
@BellyCat: God, I hope you’re wrong on that. That’s some ‘the beatings will continue until morale improves’ kind of shit there.
TONYG
To state the obvious … any law enforcement organization (ICE, CBP, local cops, whatever) has a percentage of personnel who just like to abuse people — and another percentage who will just look the other way. How big those percentages are can be debated, but they will always be there. That being the case, it makes a big difference whether the leadership discourages abusive behavior or whether the leader actively promotes abuse. What we’re seeing now is the worst ICE and CBP personnel happily letting their freak flags fly under the leadership of Trump. Anyone who thinks that U.S. citizens will be safe from this abuse, or that this behavior will not spread to other types of cops is delusional.
BellyCat
@Kayla Rudbek: Truth. Power without educational hoops to jump through attracts a certain dynamic. (Also, see local police vs state police, with the latter requiring a college degree).
As for Suzanne’s comment about resentment of docs by nurses, this dynamic gets more interesting when gender gets introduced as women are increasingly equal to or higher than men in number depending on the specialty. (My GF, a doc, has lots of thoughts on this aspect. She finds that “usually”, nurses are better with her input but male fellows (and some docs) question female docs authority more than they do male docs)
TONYG
@Anyway: The “Tech” Bros have always been greedy assholes. Now they’re just being assholes on a larger stage.
artem1s
@Anyway: the Aussie who had his visa revoked came in at Houston – Big Oil, Big Gas. Lots of foreign nationals are employed by those companies based in Houston.
I’m wondering if there was retribution in play because China is refusing LGN shipment and setting up deals with Australia. Some of these companies will be pissed if their employees can’t safely fly into and out of Houston. But the self styled ‘border protectors’ probably resent Big Oil for letting in all those foreigners in the first place.
This is one of those WWC resentment scenarios where they can finally get their revenge on the big businesses that rely on a educated workforce that they can’t find in a state that only cares about turning out football players. And that favors putting up the ten commandment in every HS and destroying STEM curriculums that teach ‘woke’ subjects like geology (there is no imaginary sky god pumping an endless supply of oil into Anwar or the Gulf), climatology (Houston will be submerged right around the time MAL goes underwater unless some giant hurricane takes it out first), oceanography (research on Deep Water and the destruction of Gulf industry and wildlife due to fossil fuels), physics (big bang, evolution, the earth is not flat), etc…
They are hell bent on getting their revenge and throwing out all the foreigners they can while they can. They are living the dream of all those in England who voted for Brexit. And because they are in TX they will probably be rewarded and cheered on. At least until they get laid off because no one wants to travel to climate hell hole and risk being locked up for no reason. And when all the Houston Fortune 500 companies and Big Oil all relocate their main offices to Scotland.
Matt
CBP has been chock-full of racist assholes who dream of hurting people from the beginning. We had four years to reform it or shut it down, and instead we got “THE BOARDER IS IN CRISIS!!!!” and “FUND THE POLICE!!!!” from so-called moderate Dems.
Heckuva job, centrists!
Glidwrith
@bluefoot: How does kidnapping and human trafficking sound?
karen gail
@rusty: There is an official White House Memo.
Military Mission for Sealing the Southern Border of the United States and Repelling Invasions – The White House
Glidwrith
@BellyCat: “The worse the crisis, the greater the desire for an authoritarian.”
I have been thinking, despite all of the climate change denial, the yahoos do believe and are afraid of what’s coming. The knee-jerk reaction would be to kick out all the foreigners to hoard resources. And demand everyone stay in their place.
Our current scenario looks an awful lot like this.
Denali5
This experience is exactly why we are advising our son and his family who live in Hungary not to visit us this year. We are getting older and it is harder for us to travel there, but I really don’t want them to face a hassle. How the world has changed!
Bill Arnold
@Geminid:
Did you read the JCPOA? It was quite complicated, and negotiated by technical subject-matter professionals on all sides. It was a solid agreement, and nearly all criticism of it was from people who clearly had not read it. Due to the complexity and comprehensiveness, the lines of non-compliance were clear, which is important for such agreements.
A Trump-style agreement is, by intentional design, not clear.
NutmegAgain
I read that “Jonathan” story with great anxiety. My daughter is coming back from Germany for a visit (friend’s wedding etc) in August. Her partner has been planning to come–and I would love to see him! But he’s a German citizen, and I’m really scared about what could happen. Sure, he’s a tall good looking white guy, cleaned up etc, professional. But anything could happen. I can’t even believe I am having to think about this stuff.
Citizen Alan
@Baud: i’m trying to find a silver lining. Maybe if trump utterly destroys the american beef industry, it will tank the need for california alfalfa. And when we stop growing alfalfa, in california, our water supply situation will greatly improve.
VFX Lurker
Future headline: CBP extinguishes the Olympic torch. Just to show they can.
bluefoot
@Glidwrith: kidnapping is definitely the mot juste, same with trafficking.
Citizen Alan
@lowtechcyclist: I only sold my paid for honda civic hybrid because s I was moving to new york. And by next vehicle was a honda crv hybrid that I just paid off.
emjayay
This is the worst possible comment system ever for every possible reason.
Get a new one.
Geminid
@Bill Arnold: No, I did not read the JCPOA, just read summaries of it and reports on its implementation. I inderstand the complexity of that deal.
I expect this deal will track it in substance and differ only in some details. So I said the technical details were not neccesarily that complicated, because Witkoff and company already have a template to work from.
If and when this new new deal is made, you are welcome to tell me how I was wrong. If I’m wrong.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Rusty: any prospective college student from outside the U.S. and any parent of same would be foolish to risk coming to the United States for their education while Trump or his people are in power. Tourists would be wise to spend their money elsewhere…and I say this as a resident of Central New York State . An area which has a lot invested in Canadian tourism…
something fabulous
@emjayay: :) I am not a crank.