Via the WaPo:
Trump administration narrows Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate
The Trump administration issued a rule Friday that sharply limits the Affordable Care Act’s contraception coverage mandate, a move that could mean many American women would no longer have access to birth control free of charge.
The new regulation, issued by the Health and Human Services Department, allows a much broader group of employers and insurers to exempt themselves from covering contraceptives such as birth control pills on religious or moral grounds. The decision, anticipated from the Trump administration for months, is the latest twist in a seesawing legal and ideological fight that has surrounded this aspect of the 2010 health-care law nearly from the start.
What’s to stop corporate persons from declaring themselves Christian Scientists and exempting themselves from providing any coverage at all?
Open thread, I guess.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
When the fuck is this shit show going to end? This just can’t go on much longer. I hate this fucking movie.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Don’t men like birth control too?
SFAW
They don’t need to be Christian Scientists, just “sincere” Christians like the Hobby Lobby grifters. Or “sincere” Worshippers of the Holy Wombat. Or “sincere” worshippers in the Church of Republican Jeebus. Or “sincere” worshippers in the Church of Misogyny and Argle-Bargle.
But you already knew that.
Baud
Expected and not ideal, but this is good.
SFAW
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Good one!
rikyrah
The Chairman of the Intelligence Committee in the Senate trying to be slick in saying that they haven’t been able to get in touch with Christopher Steele.
Then, BOOM, last night we find out that Steele don’t have a problem talking to Americans interested in his dossier –
CAUSE HE’S BEEN TALKING TO BOBBY THREE STICKS!
Not only did he talk to him and tell it all – HE DID IT MONTHS AGO,
This means to me, that STEELE DON’T TRUST NOBODY IN CONGRESS.
Don’t trust them to do right, so he went to the folks he thought were genuinely interested in the truth.
Another bomb that dropped, and it seems only Maddow and LarryO caught it –
The intelligence community, in their report about Russian interference – LEFT OUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE STEELE DOSSIER..
BECAUSE…
They didn’t want ‘ certain people’ to know how serious they took it, or to reveal the sources.
SFAW
“Moral grounds”? Nice. I guess that means that whoever is insuring Lying Littledick and his evil, grifting (extended) family will boot them from certain aspects of coverage?
Oh, wait, they’re not women having unapproved sexytime. My bad.
d58826
Well I guess some folks will see the direct cost of their vote for Der Fuhrer.
Major Major Major Major
So what exactly is the change?
Nicole
@SFAW: She means from providing any health care coverage at all, not just contraceptive.
randy khan
We just should be grateful that they haven’t decided to let companies opt out of coverage of sexually-transmitted diseases. Yet.
d58826
@rikyrah:
Well Steele isn’t the only one
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: More entities have more leeway.
Baud
@randy khan: Men get those.
Alex
They’re also getting rid of the rule that says all hospitals and nursing homes that take Medicaid or Medicare have to recognize same-sex spouses.
Brachiator
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Some men don’t care. They can’t see past their erections.
rikyrah
This really should be frontpaged
uh huh
uh huh
Marshall CohenVerified account @Marshall_Cohen
Marshall Cohen Retweeted Mark Berman
CNN has confirmed: FEMA just abruptly deleted the webpage that told the American people that 95% of Puerto Ricans still don’t have power.
https://twitter.com/Marshall_Cohen/status/916132013207445509
Baud
@Alex: That’ll probably have far greater impact on people.
randy khan
Serious comment, since my last one was pretty high on the snarky scale: I wonder how many places that haven’t already opted out will opt out under the new regime. Contraceptive coverage is popular and it typically doesn’t cost the employer anything. If this were something that actually affected the cost of insurance, I could see a lot of employers taking advantage of it, but it’s harder to guess in this particular case.
Also, something that isn’t clear from the articles (and maybe isn’t clear from the decision) is whether women still can opt in to the coverage if the employer nixes it, which is the post-Hobby Lobby situation.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: so they’re granting the same exception for a wider group, got it.
randy khan
@Baud:
But only sinners get those diseases, amirite?
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: From what I can tell.
Baud
@randy khan: All men are sinners.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@d58826:
They’ll see it, but they’ll blame it on the Black guy. You can bet any amount on that.
SFAW
@Nicole:
Which is why I chose the “churches” I did. Who’s to say what their “sincere and deeply held” beliefs are? The Supreme Court will pretty much give them a pass. [Disclaimer: I’m not sure how SCOTUS would deal with a “church” whose sacraments include cannibalism or child/virgin sacrifice.]
Oh, and as far as my inclusion of “Christians” in the “who knows what their beliefs include?” group — we’ve already seen the wide array of “sincere and deeply held” beliefs in various sects.
bystander
Has Ivanka heard about this? Because I’m sure she’ll put her foot down and tell twitler no.
Burr has something about feeling played by Steele. I think Warner is keeping quiet because he knows that Mueller’s talking to Steele is far more important. IIRC the Steele dossier was originally financed by a pro-Hillary group.
Baud
@d58826:
Not really. The number of people effected is likely to be miniscule and it appears they kept the requirement that the insurance company must still provide the coverage for free (which the religious groups had also challenged, so they might challenge it again.)
SFAW
@Brachiator:
They should have stopped when they started needing glasses.
(Sorry, riffing on an old joke.)
Corner Stone
B Crack, I am to disappoint. No jab at Ivanka after all these progressive victories on policy re: women’s issues?
Kay
i get furious at Democrats but one of the reasons I remain one is the Democratic women in the Senate and how passionate they are about women’s health. I love that about them. It’s such a lie that there’s a political payoff- it’s much easier as a politician to not give a shit about it or to avoid the issue entirely. It’s not even taken seriously most of the time.
When I see them up there along with all the fucking vicious nastiness and scolding and finger-wagging that’s directed at them I feel as if I have real, tough advocates. It isn’t easy. They have to fight the same battles every year because a huge number of people in Congress don’t care if women live or die as long as they can loudly proclaim they love babies.
So I hope these assholes enjoy struttingt around for a day proclaiming their moral superiority while they do NOTHING for anyone’s actual healthcare.
Betty Cracker
@bystander: I thought the Jeb! people funded the Steele dossier.
Brachiator
The gummint don’t pay for a man’s condoms. Why should they pay fer wimmin’s sex pills?
Or something equally stupid.
Ultimately, conservatives want to make sure that obstacles are put in the way of women being able to exercise any reproductive choice. Sex should always expose them to a risk of pregnancy, as God intended, according to their twisted interpretation of the Bible.
germy
@bystander:
I thought it had originally been financed by Jeb’s campaign people.
Frankensteinbeck
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
For a lot of people, and it does include women, “Not as much as hurting someone.”
Brachiator
@SFAW:
Ha! I know just the one you’re referencing. A little humor is appreciated.
@randy khan:
We might get to see how many companies are hostile to women, how many want to impose their moral judgments on women. And it is telling that women are so much the focus of this fear and loathing.
What a world.
bystander
@Betty Cracker: @germy:
I’m old and get confused. But being financed by Jeb! is almost as bad as being financed by HRC. Warner may sense that too much smoke can be made out of the etiology of the report as tainted ab initio.
cope
“Assholes”, indisputable. “General Stupidity”, not so much. This is an intentional effort to add as many burdens to the lower-middle and lower class as possible in order to keep them in their place. Now that I see it in print, “asshole” is too delicate a description.
Kay
@cope:
The most amazing part is media and the GOP managed to convince people that their health insurance, which they pay for, is somehow offering something “free”. It’s not free! You either paid for it directly or you earned it.
TomatoQueen
@Baud: The Little Sisters of Stupidity refused to do this on the first go round.
Shana
@SFAW: Gee, I wonder if my sincere beliefs, as a business owner, said that the world is already overpopulated and I sincerely believed there should be no more people born and therefore all my employees had to use birth control or be sterilized. Would that be OK?
Just wondering.
Percysowner
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Some, probably most, do. Some just like CONTROL and being the ones with control in the relationship. Many abusers keep “their” women by sabotaging the birth control.
Jack the Second
They’re fine with the NRA.
Cermet
A good example why, a hundred years in the future (when all people except the 0.001% are busy dying from AGW induced wars, famines and/or diseases), they will look back and realize what primitive savages most amerikans were since they held such superstitious beliefs in any god or that guns made them safer.
Sab
I am a straight woman and I have loved some straight men, but they are invariably idiots. They don’t realize that our contraception is their contraception, and if we don’t have contraception then they get nothing. As I said, they are idiots.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I feel like the Congressional effort will be a big nothing. Mueller is it. It’s him or nobody.
I can’t even remember the last time Congress found anything other than “put this behind us and move on”, probably back to Iran-Contra days.
Humboldtblue
@Kay:
That’s one of the more impressive things about the deep bench of women in elected positions in California. The push for removing taxes on hygiene products (vetoed twice by Brown) and the continuous focus on health care, education, child care and employment are key planks. If you saw my news twitter feed it’s a stream of lawmakers pushing a true liberal agenda including getting women to run for office.
For those of you interested, here’s an update on the Eagle Creek fire that ripped through the Columbia Gorge and the impact it had on the environment. Post fire evaluations are currently underway and the impacts, considering the fuel load, we less worse than originally feared. A really hot prolonged fire will sterilize the soil and leave it vulnerable to erosion because no new vegetation will grow.
Baud
@TomatoQueen: Yep. Wonder if they’ll challenge this new regulation.
@Shana:
Not a good analogy. This is about what the employer will pay for. So in your scenario, it would be about whether you cover childbirth.
Kay
@Humboldtblue:
It really is heartening for me to see, when the Dem women appear. It’s genuine because it’s not like anyone other than them takes any of this seriously. It goes into the “women and children” basket- not important or prestigious or worth working on.
Matt
Keep it up, radical Christianists. The more you wed your bogus religion to your hate, the easier it will be to justify pulling your tax exemptions.
Brachiator
@cope:
I don’t think that upper income women are magically exempt. The idea here is not simply to hurt poorer women, but to begin putting obstacles related to reproduction on all women. This impacts men also in many ways, to the extent that they are boyfriends, husbands, partners.
Ksmiami
@Matt: the easier it will be to destroy them… that’s what I want
Humboldtblue
@Kay:
More importantly, it’s effective. Expanded maternal leave for both moms and dads, expanded meal service for school children, increased protections for women in agriculture work, the list goes on. And that is happening even as the number of women in elected office has dropped. Democratic men are stepping up as well.
Here’s a list that will make you smile
Corner Stone
@Kay:
Yep. Already weakened and hollow institutions have failed. The fate of our country rests on the shoulders of one unelected bureaucratic functionary.
Heidi Mom
@Kay: Don’t forget the Attorney General of NY. Trump can’t fire him and can’t issue pardons for offenses under state law.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
They are saying the GOP billionaire donors are just vivid that the Republicans haven’t been able to make life hell for the poor like the Baby Jesus wants and this all just smells of desperate Ryandian fan service to me. Like they will change these regulations to keep the donors writing checks for the primary, come next summer it changes back for the election or some such nonsense.
cope
@Brachiator: Point taken.
Brachiator
@Matt:
You got to get Democrats back in power and also perhaps convince the people again. The Trump Administration, and zealots such as this new senator Moore, don’t believe in any separation between church and state. And there has been a concerted attempt by Republicans to prevent the IRS from looking at supposedly exempt organizations which engage in politicking.
James Powell
@SFAW:
If the cannibals and child/virgin sacrificers vote Republican, I’m certain how four of the justices will vote and pretty sure about the fifth.
SiubhanDuinne
@Brachiator:
You’re right about him, but he’s not a senator yet.
The Moar You Know
@bystander: The guys shooting at the hurricane in Florida were more effective at stopping the destruction than Ivanka will ever be.
What a crock of shit the media fed us about her.
trollhattan
“Every womb is a fertile womb, as gawd intended.”
–Brought to you by Mike Pence and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions the Umpteenth.
SiubhanDuinne
O/T, but a banner on the WaPo site says that Trump is about to make remarks celebrating “Hispanic Heritage Month.”
I’m sure we’ll hear about how much he loves the beautiful, wonderful Spanish people.
Taco bowls for everyone!!
No Drought No More
“What’s to stop corporate persons from declaring themselves Christian Scientists..”?
The answer being: the same thing that stopped Trump, Pence, and the republican congress from adhering to their oaths to preserve, protect, and defend the U.S. from domestic traitors.
Which is to say, nothing at all.
SFAW
@Shana:
Far be it from me to speculate on what the SCOTUS would do (not that I haven’t already or anythin’), but I would think they would look on it more favorably if your sincere belief re: forced sterilization applied only to non-whites and Democrats. Just something to consider.
Brachiator
Let’s look at some numbers, from a recent CNN story on Trump’s birth control policy:
Trump’s policy not only puts economic burdens on women, it threatens their lives.
oatler.
I’ve said it before but we need a new Lysistrata Movement (women withholding sex to end war). I’ve also said it before, but withholding sex from me is not a useful yardstick of success.
Luthe
One of these days I’m going to register myself as a corporation and sue the (pick a state) government for limiting my access to abortion on the grounds they are unjustly taking my property (my uterus) for a government purpose. It will be Kelo v. New London in miniature.
Jeffro
What about the war on sanity? Trumpov’s tweeting today that mild-mannered Ed Northam is actually FIGHTING FOR MS-13!!!1! Who knew?!?
Uncle Ebeneezer
@rikyrah: I would love to hear the thoughts of a certain FP-er (who focusses on intelligence…). Is this news? Does this change anything? Etc.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
My company takes $400 a month out of my paycheck for medical, dental, and vision care. I am under no illusions whatsoever that my health insurance is “free.”
The stuff I don’t have to pay a separate charge for — like vaccinations or an annual checkup — is included, not “free.”
Humboldtblue
The war on women continues apace, and it’s not limited to the U.S.
“I’ve got a degree from Durham, one of best universities in country, and I’m a trained lawyer,” she says in riposte. “If you look at other chief execs and their backgrounds I’m sure I’ve got one of the better CVs. It was overwhelming,” she says, “being young, relatively attractive and female, all those things counted against me. I was made into this caricature and had the most horrible things you can say about being a woman, people calling me a bimbo. If I’d known the abuse I was going to get I’d never have done it but you just have to keep your head down and get on with it.”
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
Their assumption is that rich women will always be able to access contraception and abortion, just like they always have. One of the reasons Margaret Sanger started Planned Parenthood was that there were effective methods of contraception available (the diaphragm had been around for almost 100 years), but only rich and connected women knew how to get them.
opiejeanne
@bystander:
She’s Orthodox, right? I was under the impression that Orthodox Jews are not supposed to use birth control. Can anyone enlighten me?
(I know Catholics aren’t supposed to use BC but I also know that when polled 95% have used it or do use it.)
prob50
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Not the Christianistas. Remember, we’re all supposed to be fruitful and multiply.
J R in WV
@Heidi Mom:
“Don’t forget the Attorney General of NY. Trump can’t fire him and can’t issue pardons for offenses under state law.”
This is true to an extent. But Trump could, for example, send a team of security goons to arrest the NY AG for treason, and hold him and all his lawyers incommunicado indefinitely in Cuba, while Trump pardons everyone else who might implicate him in federal or state crimes.
Arrests of potential witnesses to continue until no one is left free to complain about Trump’s illegal conspiracies. Or willing to complain about Trump to a Grand Jury or Judge. Maybe then the Rs would vote to impeach him, if they weren’t worried about a trip to Cuba.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
I got your email, but I haven’t had a chance to respond. Stay tuned! ?
Also, IIRC, most Orthodox Jews have no problem with contraception or abortion. They may choose to have large families, but it’s not out of a religiously-motivated feeling against contraception.
A Ghost To Most
@Matt: And the more people who will see your bloody mythology for what it is.
prob50
@Brachiator:
Remember, erections have consequences.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: Then the woman who told this in an interview must belong to a sect that eschews BC.
She talked about how sexy it was,all that pent up sexual energy while she was on her period, and how great the sex was despite (or because of?) the risk of pregnancy. Her husband was a rabbi, they were under 35, and they had 7 children already.
prob50
@SiubhanDuinne:
Maybe he’ll throw packets of taco sauce at them.
d58826
DOJ has just issued guidance that religious liberty superceeds civil rights. I’m old enough to remember when Jim Crow was justified on religious grounds as well as antisemitism. There was a post on twitter a few weeks back about how intolerant liberals were because they made conservative religious business people serve LQBT customers. Since she was Jewish I wonder if she every gave any thought to the fact that a ‘No Gays” allowed sign can just as easily read ‘No Jews allowed’
SiubhanDuinne
@prob50:
Check out the video clip on the next thread to hear him trying to be funny pronouncing “Puerto Rico.”
It’s every bit as cringe-inducing as you can imagine.
ETA: Betty Cracker @#14
Amir Khalid
@opiejeanne:
It’s not restricted to any one religious community. I think that in any faith you’ll find people who see birth control use and abortion and HPV vaccinations sinful because, in their view, these things open the door to sex without consequences. I’ve certainly met Muslims like that.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
Adam knows more about them, but there’s a really bizarre sect of people who were born and raised as conservative Protestants who “converted” to a Judaism that’s about as true to the real thing as the Nation of Islam’s beliefs are to actual Islam. They’ve carried over a lot of their weird Christianist beliefs (including being anti-abortion/anti-contraception) but claim to follow the Old Testament and therefore are “Jewish.”
Of course, there’s also the simpler explanation that fundamentalists are coming together to believe the same things. IIRC there are some fundamentalist Muslims who are anti-contraception even though it’s not part of Islam. Fundies of all stripes flock together and adopt similar beliefs with different rationales.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
IIRC, there’s nothing specific in Islam that says that birth control and abortion are bad. There are teachings in the Catholic Church that say that.
I’ve read things that say that, in Judaism, the highest calling is to protect the life of people who are already born, so there’s no moral restriction against a woman using birth control or getting an abortion as long as she feels it’s the best decision for her. I was assuming that Islam is similar.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: In Judaism life for the baby begins at first breath. Abortion was actually used commonly in the Jewish community for thousands of years.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
I believe it is. But there are people who have a way of adding taboos to their faith that are not mentioned in scripture or are quite alien to their religious tradition — simply because they feel that there should be more rules, the more onerous the better
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
But obviously, this is not the entire story. Middle class and wealthy women also often had to travel away from home and give birth in secret. Hell, even in relatively modern times, a wealthy star like Loretta Young had Clark Gable’s child in secret. The malign impact of religion comes into play here as well.
Again, the idea that rich and connected women have a sweet ride, and that concerns about birth control is just about a condescending concern for poor women is just wrong headed. The idea that a corporation has a “right” to decide any aspect of any woman’s health choices because of that corporations supposed “sincere” religious beliefs is noxious and absurd. It also clearly sets a precedent for a larger intrusion into women’s rights.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne: Sweet deal! We pay twice that. But like you said — we all PAY. It ain’t free!
ET
As much as Team Trump and the Republicans, sycophants, ideologues, and GOPers that hang around him try and erase what many feel were 8 years on an unworthy/illegitimate president in the long run they will fail doing what really underlies this – holding back the future. Obama was looking at the future and trying to find a way to steer a path for the US and the ship of state because he knew – like most people who really think know- that the future is unavoidable and you are part of and learn to deal with it or you get run over and left behind. All those in power by overturning decisions made during Obama are so busy living in the past, trying to hold onto those things from the past that give them prestige and make the comfortable.The future is multi-cultural and global in many different ways and the US may not be in the same position it has been since WWII.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, the Giant Evil Corporation has great benefits — we get a LOT for that money. Our salaries are not the highest in the industry, but that’s because we have great benefits instead.
The Golux
@Mnemosyne:
This is the thing that really drives me up the wall with shitheads like Hobby Lobby – the lie that their morals are being compromised by being forced to “buy” contraception for their employees. It’s not their fucking money.
geg6
@bystander:
Actually, no. It was originally financed by a Republican during the primaries. Then, once Dolt won the nomination, a Dem financier took it over. Guessing the financier was tipped off by the GOPer who originally financed. My guess is JEB!
Shakti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Men don’t care because they can’t get knocked up. I saw a survey somewhere saying 52% of men said they didn’t benefit from a woman in their lives having access to birth control. The survey didn’t comment on how many of those men had slept only with other men. Even so, that ex plains a lot
hugely
@Brachiator: I know I cant because its so big….in my mind rocco siffredi etc etc etc etc (im sure im not first with that joke)
les
@SFAW:
Why the fuckity fuck aren’t Dems fighting this shit with the obvious truth–IT’S NOT THE EMPLOYER’S FUCKING MONEY paying for contraceptives. IT’S THE EMPLOYEES’ COMPENSATION. What’s next–Mormon business owners can tell their employees they can’t use their paycheck to buy booze?
Brachiator
@les:
Can Muslim employer’s refuse to pay for alcohol rehab?
Can a especially devout Christian employer refuse to pay for any health care at all, and say that employees should go to a faith healer?
Oh, you can have so much fun with this stuff.
Tazj
I can guess how conservatives would answer. Only Christians have sincerely held religious beliefs and as to the second question they would say that it would never happen. You see Christians do believe in healthcare(healthcare you better pay for) but reproductive healthcare is something completely separate and invented by liberals. Things like endometriosis aren’t serious health problems and preeclampsia is a minor pregnancy complication that wouldn’t cause a woman to want to control when and if she became pregnant again.
burnspbesq
I’m a little bit surprised that we’ve gotten over 90 comments into the thread and nobody has questioned the validity of the HHS rule.
That would, in my view, be a useful exercise. I haven’t seen HHS’ justification for promulgating this rule without putting it through notice and comment, but I’m willing to bet that said justification is bullshit, and won’t survive scrutiny.
Brachiator
@burnspbesq:
Let’s hope this is what happens.
LongHairedWeirdo
Oh, come on now. Christian Scientists aren’t popular enough to win real support! (Unless they’re a significant voting bloc in a red or battleground state, of course.)