Sorry to do this to you, but Bobo is a masterpiece this morning:
Alas, the dream of a Grand Bargain died Friday evening for three reasons.
First, it was always going to be difficult to round up the necessary Congressional votes. Republicans didn’t want the tax increases. Democrats didn’t want the entitlement cuts.
Second, the White House negotiating process was inadequate. Neither the president nor the House speaker ever wrote down and released their negotiating positions. Everything was mysterious, shifting and slippery. One day the president was agreeing to an $800 billion revenue increase; the next day he was asking for $400 billion more. Spending cuts that seemed to be part of the package suddenly seemed hollow. Negotiating partners disappeared.
It was phenomenally hard to figure out exactly who was offering what. Democrats in Congress were kept in the dark and were understandably suspicious. It was all a recipe for misunderstandings, hurt feelings and collapse.
Third, the president lost his cool. Obama never should have gone in front of the cameras just minutes after the talks faltered Friday evening. His appearance was suffused with that “I’m the only mature person in Washington” condescension that drives everybody else crazy. Obama lectured the leaders of the House and Senate in the sort of patronizing tone that a junior high principal might use with immature delinquents. He talked about unreturned phone calls and being left at the altar, personalizing the issue like a spurned prom date.
The Brooks rundown faults three things:
First, “BOTH SIDES.” Second, OBAMA IS SLIPPERY. Third, OBAMA LOST HIS COOL.
I’m just going to stop this post now before I say what I want to and it becomes representative of the “angry left.”
arguingwithsignposts
as I mentioned in a previous thread, this is only so hurtful to Bobo because it’s true.
Bulworth
Shorter Bobo:
jwb
This column was completely predictable. Whenever Bobo strays off the reservation, as he did a couple of weeks ago, he always writes an angry column like this as an act of repentance. I got tired of the act long ago and now avoid him like the plague.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
The David Brooks is a dickhead tag sums it all up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and…? Does Bobo ever watch his team on the TeeVee machine? Does he think Louie Goehmert and Steve King go over to Virginia Fox’s house for a discussion of the finer points of Edmund Burke’s views on personal liberty?
Emma
The fun thing is watching people smack him around in the comments. Usually I don’t read newspaper comments, because they are the ultimate cesspool, but I was curious. I think it was 80% against, and people were quite vocal about it.
Not that it will make any dent in his “I’m too intellectually advanced for the rest of you” facade.
OzoneR
Maybe Obama should use the bully pulpit, have a press conference, perhaps prime time, say 9 pm, tell the country exactly how important it is to make a deal now, call out Republicans, make it clear it’s them who are obstructing. But no, he won’t do that, so he loses the message war.
MattF
Pretty depressing. One should read Brooks as a fly-on-the-wall report of what the Conservative Cognoscenti are saying to each other. “That Obama fella– he’s sooooo annoying.”
Observer
John, no matter how mendacious David Brooks is, he is not the problem here.
The current problem has twin roots:
1) insane republicans
2) a president who says that we need to have a “grand bargain” with insane republicans
That’s it. David Brooks has nothing to do with this specific issue and David Brooks wasn’t there to formulate Obama’s persona back in his formative years.
Edit: (cut out extraneous stuff).
Mike Goetz
I literally cannot believe what I just read.
I love how the serial Cantor-Boehner-Boehner walkouts of the negotiations becomes “Negotiating partners disappeared.”
No actual criticism of Republican behavior at all.
This is a classic referee’s make-up call after lambasting Republicans in previous columns.
OzoneR
Most of the comments I’m reading are supportive of Brooks’ position
sublime33
Look, if the right wing had the same embarrassing pictures of John Cole as they apparently do of David Brooks, John would be doing the same crap.
eric
OzoneR — check and mate.
chopper
clearly, this is all Near Leader’s fault.
dmsilev
What a waste of electrons. And pixels. Will nobody think of the poor innocent pixels which were callously abused by being forced to display this column?
Just Some Fuckhead
Hell, I’m angry enough to write up a sign “Compromize Now!” and stand in front of something.
What do we want?! Compromise!
When do we want it?! What works for you guys?
How are we going to get it?! Uh.. compromise for it?
chopper
“fuck him, that’s my job!”
Emma
OzoneR: Maybe I didn’t go far enough into it, I suppose. But I read about twenty of them, and 18 were smacking him about.
joes527
jwb
This is what makes it easy to tell that bobo is evil and not stupid. The fact that he understands that what he is saying is bullshit comes out fairly often. (like when he referred to Palin as “a terminal cancer on the republican party”)
But he always comes back with his tail between his legs to shovel more shit. It may be the simple matter that evil pays better than good, or maybe he is worried that honest commentary would require more work, or maybe he just enjoys shovelling shit. For whatever reason, he always goes back.
OzoneR
@Emma
They update really quickly
Butch
I’m going to cram a cowboy boot down the throat of the next person I hear saying “grand bargain.”
Zifnab
You know, I can almost sympathize with people who know very little about politics – who their Congresscritters are, what bills are getting passed, etc – simply because these people never get any serious mention.
If I asked around my office, I’d be shocked if one in four people knew who Eric Cantor was. And why would they? Guys like Bobo just can’t bring themselves to mention the man, even though he is the single biggest stumbling block in the entire ‘effing debate.
Marty
I think Bobo is just getting an early start on rewriting history. When the muck hits the fan, it’ll be because Obama marginalized himself with his extremist position.
jwb
OzoneR: Until they close the comments when they become avalanches against him.
Linda Featheringill
Judging from what looks like the level of response to the Prez’s request to contact congresscritters, it might turn out that last night’s speech was a work of art, pure genius.
Slippery or not. :-)
[Almost NONE of the people calling, etc. read Bobo. Also, too. ]
cleek
quick, get that man on a plane to DC, stat! his country needs him! only the brilliant political mind and world-class negotiation skills of David Brooks can bridge the gap that 536 people have been staring at for the past 3 months!
agrippa
Obama is the only mature person in Washington, Brooks included. His failure to understand is remarkable.
The only time that I know about what he writes is when I read about it here.
cleek
@Butch:
i support this.
Cris (without an H)
protip: if it makes you crazy to be talked to like you’re an immature delinquent, stop acting like an immature delinquent.
Mike Goetz
I can’t believe you didn’t highlight this little nugget:
“John Boehner and Harry Reid will continue to verbally abuse each other. But there’s a script to their taunts. Nobody’s feelings are hurt.”
Fee-fucking-fees! It’s always the fee-fees.
Rick Taylor
__
So he openly states that Republicans are so thin skinned and immature that they will trash the economy and refuse to do their jobs if you don’t talk really nicely to them all the time, and this is meant as a criticism of the President?
Joe Bauers
Uppity, uppity, uppity.
sixers
Didn’t I hear that “Obama’s got this” somewhere? How’s that looking?
slag
Sounds like a good compromise. When apportioning blame, you start in the middle and then work your way toward the left. You’re just wishing our politicians worked that way when compromising on policy, aren’t you?
joes527
Observer
You could have just stopped with
Once you recognize that reality, then there is really no #2. That’s why I haven’t been getting my panties in a bunch over “he’z doin it rong!” or “he’z giving away social-sedicare” or anything else. It doesn’t matter what Obama has proposed, or how he has negotiated, or what he has “given away”
The Republican plan from day 1 was to run the country off the cliff in the deluded hope that they would be the ones to pick up the pieces. (or maybe, the deluded hope is just me projecting purpose onto the Republicans, and running it off the cliff is really as far as they had thought the thing through)
Given our constitution, and a House willing to push the button, it really doesn’t matter what the President does or does not do. They are taking us down.
Pat
He talks to the angry left in the same condescending tone. Real effective there. Brooks is still a dick, tho.
jwb
joes527: The only interesting thing about this column is its timing: the appearance of the column means that overlords have approved of going back to politicking the debt ceiling. That to me signals that the overlords are no longer concerned about the debt ceiling, which suggests that either the deal is cooked and just waiting to be announced or that the overlords think Obama has an effective plan for dealing with the ceiling if there is not a deal. In any case, after having expressed concern about Gooper intransigence for a number of days, the media has shifted back into the “both sides do it so it’s the Dems’ fault” narrative that to an outside observer would suggest the crisis has past. Curious.
cleek
i like how “the White House negotiating process” is at fault there. sure, “the speaker” could have “wrote down and released” his positions, but let’s just blame the WH. sure, they could have just banged away on the same set of proposals until Brooks grew bored of them, then switched to another set. but no, they had to keep proposing new things as soon as it was obvious that the current set wouldn’t work.
so… inadequate.
Rick Massimo
No it wasn’t. The Democrats wanted Congress to vote to raise the debt ceiling, like they have done without incident and without conditions all 89 times the subject has come up since the 1920s, so as to be able to pay the nation’s bills.
It’s only hard if you’re a moron. Or if you hate your country and would rather have millions of your countrymen suffer for decades than admit you were wrong about anything. Or, in the case of David Brooks, both.
MikeBoyScout
We’s mighty sorry Boss. You is mature. We’s should not have been big mouthed. Can you gives us another chance Boss?
We promises to be more quiet next time.
cleek
it’s so hard to call the game when the players keep moving the ball around! punditing is hard!
SenyorDave
In a parallel universe, Brooks would be unemployed, ran through his benefits, no health insurance with a pre-existing condition, lost his house because he was underwater and behind on the mortgage. And he still would be blaming Obama for losing his cool (translation “angry black dude who just can’t deal with reasonable white folks”).
In a way, I consider Brooks every bit as bad as Limbaugh. Brooks is a whore, and a cut-rate whore at that.
Brachiator
Man, I miss those days when Dubya was a calm, mature presence in the White House. It’s not like he ever proclaimed himself to be The Decider or anything like that, or stubbornly stuck to his position, insisting that the Democrats give him what he wanted.
Meanwhile, Boehner increasingly is acting as though he is co-president. Who does he think he is, Dick Cheney?
RossinDetroit
If Brooks didn’t exist we’d have to invent him so we’d never forget what teh stoopid looks like.
catclub
SenyorDave @ 42
In a parallel universe, Gene Lyons would have a NYT column.
AxelFoley
@sublime33:
ROFL!
PGE
joes527: The reason they’re willing to drive us off the cliff is that they honestly believe they can fly; only those of us who aren’t galtian overlords will crash at the bottom; and we don’t matter.
Judas Escargot
@jwb:
One commenter last night (sorry, I forget who) suggested that we were seeing a rift between different factions of Overlord (the Kochs versus the Buffets– I’d rephrase this as “the rentiers versus the investors”, but same difference).
Since reading that, I’ve been wondering if that’s the case– how would a battle royale like that appear to those of us on the outside?
Pat
We get it – Obama is smarter and more eloquent than Bush. And that’s yielded…? Actions please, loquacity is so 2008.
ChrisB
At least he didn’t call Obama shiftless.
Or maybe it was just a typo.
Thymezone
I don’t see what the big whoopity fuss is. The Republicans can yell “Liar!” in the middle of a speech to congress, but Obama can’t say that he was left at the altar by a gang of cutthroat lying sonsabitches who would cut their mothers’ throats for two dollars and brag about it later ….
Boehner can say that Obama wants a “blank check” when the only checks written by our government are authorized by Boehner’s House of Representatives, but Obama can’t say that his adversaries can’t say yes to their own proposals if he restates their proposals back to them, for fear of making him look good.
Brooks is a turd. Just a turd. A paid whore. I seriously think that they call him up and tell him what to write, the big cheeses in the Republican power structure. This Friday he will spew it all on his PBS gig, on camera.
JCT
Cole, I have no idea how you read that claptrap all the way through. He is beginning to make Peggy Noonan in the midst of a 3-day bender seem coherent.
Really, at this point all I have to do is see that it’s a Bobo day on the Times’ Op-Ed and I surrender to my blood pressure spike and close the fucking paper. The End.
catclub
Judas E @ 48 asked “how would a battle royale like that appear to those of us on the outside?”
There will be lots of collateral (ha – a pun) damage.
Cris (without an H)
see previous comment
pattonbt
This is CYA at it’s best. While I do not think anyone will “win” this process, I do think Republicans will be hurt more than Dems (of course the poor and middle class will be hurt the most and hurt in a very direct and meaningful sense). But the Reps are testing out which blame shifting talking points will sell best to minimize the effect.
This gives pundits cover for supporting their team. Brooks knows the score and he and his can not be wrong or his whole life is proven to be worthless (which most people who deal in reality have seen for a long long time). So he has to figure out a way to defend himself and his team.
This is why I say Obama will not “win” this debate. He may come out better, but the game will make sure there is no “winner”. Both sides do it don’t you know.
Thymezone
It is hard to keep track of who is offering what. You’d have to get a sheet of paper and draw a line down the middle and then write “Us” on one side and “Them” on the other, and stuff.
catclub
Pat @ 49 Healthcare, DADT repeal, Lilly Ledbetter Act, Stimulus, plus only one extra war, in contrast to seven or eight extra wars started by McWars McCain.
hildebrand
My goodness, what a pig-ignorant, willfully blind, reality-denying comment. But hey, I bet you feel better for having typed such foolishness.
Ash Can
Oh for fuck’s sake, Bobo, just call the president an uppity ni66er and get it over with. You know you’re dying to do it. (Plus it might finally get your worthless ass fired from the NYT and purged from the TV pundit rotation, and you’ll finally stop wasting the world’s time.)
RossinDetroit
Brooks seems to think that politicians aren’t doing their jobs if they haven’t kept him abreast of the negotiations on a real-time basis.
And why, exactly, should a newspaper columnist be kept in the loop?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Shorter Bobo:
Obama came in and trashed my Grand Bargain, and it wasn’t his Grand Bargain to trash.
joes527
Warren Buffet has been off the reservation (saying that we need to tax the rich more) for a long time now.
It is easy for him to be for income tax increase on the highest brackets, since IIRC he has no income. More telling would be whether he is for capital gains being taxed the same as income. THAT would be a position of principle. It is hard to tell from the statements I have read whether he would go there.
AxelFoley
@MikeBoyScout
LMAO!
jwb
Judas Escargot: But the media is closing ranks (witness Bobo’s latest) again, which suggests that the overlords have come to an accommodation. I’m now thinking that a deal has been struck, and Obama’s call to flood the congresscritters’ offices with responses was a way to give cover to the 30 Goopers to crossover and vote for a clean ceiling under the banner of the will of the people.
AxelFoley
@Pat:
Because some dumb mothafuckas refuse to pay attention:
http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
Thank me later.
Bulworth
I know Bobo’s bad but if I have to read another Michael Gerson (former Bush Speecher) column that includes how Obama has supposedly created the crime of “Over-reach” I’m afraid I’ll go all Angry Left on everyone.
Omnes Omnibus
@ jwb:
You cannot imagine how much I hope you are right.
cleek
@AxelFoley:
makes one wonder if they’re in it for the policies or for the self-righteous pouting.
well, actually, i guess i don’t wonder too much.
arguingwithsignposts
@jwb:
Are you for real? You think the Pres., Reid and Pelosi sat down with the Actual Orange Satan and worked up that kind of kabuki?
You have way more faith in 11-dimensional chess than i do.
Howlin Wolfe
OZone – I went there to check it out, and I clicked on the “View All Comments” option. It was about 20-1 against Brooksie. The default option there is “Highlighted Comments”, and if Bobo does the highlighting, it’s gonna look better for him, being the dishonest hack that he is.
different church-lady
John, the only way you’d be a member of the “angry left” is if you started holding Bobo’s column up as an example of how much Obama sucks.
Pat
And then there’s this – last night he accidentally let slip the fact that he’s been giving the Batshit Republicans all of you hate so much a master assist this whole time:
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@jwb #64:
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick with Bagels and Lox! Why the hell do we have to engage in this kind of tea-leaf reading Kremlinology in order to know what the fuck is going on? If I had wanted to live in the goddamm USSR I could have saved myself the trouble and moved there back in the 1970s. This is beyond ridiculous.
kay
That was incredibly generous and helpful of Congress. They decided to take control of law-making. Did they come up with that idea themselves?
Jesus. Dragged, kicking and screaming, to do their one and only job. David Brooks thinks this is an abdication of the President’s clear constitutional role as congressional babysitter.
AAA Bonds
Hmm perhaps it is David Brooks who is the condescending prevaricator who can’t keep his cool?
rikyrah
just say it Bobo
UPPITY NIGGER
Black folks like me are just waiting for the mofos to just be HONEST.
cleek
@jwb:
MSNBC’s current headline on the matter is:
sounds like the polar opposite of Brooks.
wrb
What sleazy site dis you get that from or did you come up with something so twisted yourself?
What the fuck does an estimate made in 2008 have to do with anything? The actual deficit for 2009 was well over $1T.
Look at the Heritage Foundation’s own chart
Paris
Bobo is either psychic, lying, or he was present during all the meetings and knows everyone personally. Since its unlikely that he was invited to the discussions, I assume one of the first two and I don’t believe in psychics.
kay
dpCap
The problem is that BO is a bad president. We can’t remove him through the primaries so he’ll win reelection by a landslide. Then come 2014, popular hatred of him will grow to the point that Republicans will have another landslide year and the houses will be 98% red.
We’re so screwed.
Judas Escargot
@jwb:
The MSM’s in the same fix as the GOP: Irrelevant, but does not yet realize it. J6P neither knows nor cares who Bobo, David Gregory, etc. are. (This of course does not limit the damage they can cause in the meantime).
IMO, had a deal been struck, each side would be pre-positioning itself to take credit for their perceived “victory” over the other. There’s currently no sign of that.
I took Obama’s words as face-value: He was basically telling the non-teabaggers to get off their lazy asses for a change and make a phone call.
My current expectation: A last-minute, short-term deal gets passed. Obama then vetoes it, tells Congress “Big Deal or no deal”, and implements whatever emergency procedures his people at Treasury have been preparing.
Folks need to realize: Obama sees himself as Lincoln. If he caves, he’s no longer Lincoln.
He’d rather resign the office than cave.
jwb
arguingwithsignposts: The shift in the media coverage has been quite striking—last week they were expressing great concern over Gooper intransigence, this week, not so much. The lack of movement in the markets has also been surprising. Finally, Obama’s speech last night was most peculiar. None of these are consistent with Armageddon arriving next Tuesday.
Still, I was firmly in the camp of there’s no prayer for a deal until I saw Bobo’s column. If anyone is a bellweather, it is Bobo, and Bobo’s attack makes the most sense if the overlords now think it is safe to politic the debt ceiling, which suggests that the crisis is past. The most plausible scenario is a deal, though other sorts of resolution are possible.
kay
Why can’t you “remove” him through the primaries?
Does that mean “because we will lose”?
If so, do you agree that the person who gets the most votes should win? Or is this a different system, that you envision? Perhaps an appointment?
jwb
ThatLeftTurnInABQ: The most plausible reason for the Kabuki is that they still have to get both the Dems and something like 30 Goopers to vote for it. The cover of lots of constituents calling would do that. One test of this theory would be whether there is any evidence of organized counter calling by the Teatards. I’m sure the local level Teatards are doing it; I’m talking about the astroturf level: are the corporate overlords pushing a counter calling campaign. I don’t follow any of the sites that would give me that information.
jwb
Judas Escargot: I don’t think Obama caves—unless you consider either a clean raise or Reid’s plan a cave. Those, I think, are the most likely scenarios.
Of course, you might be right. On the other hand, the MSM is nothing if not the mouthpiece of the overlords and if the overlords were still fearing a default, I don’t think Bobo would have written this column yet.
chopper
@wrb:
it’s not pat’s fault the numbers jump all around on the page. math is hard.
AxelFoley
@dpCap:
Dammit, Cole, you’ve gotta get some quality trolls here.
Sasha
Of course, had Obama coolly aired his complaints, Brooks would have commented on how Obama was losing because, in comparison to Boehner’s passion, Obama’s tepid response made him look like the boring professor nobody wants to listen to.
joes527
jwb
I get how the image of media as immensely competent player in the grand kabuki that is DC is appealing. I just don’t buy it.
The seeming pattern to the material can more easily be attributed to the schooling of fish, or flocking of birds, where one turning can turn the whole herd. It is pretty to watch, but at the end of the day it has no more meaning than a lemming run.
Percysowner
Shorter David Brooks “Obama is uppity and acting ABOVE his station in life.”
murbella
and yet, this blog continues to pimp Brooks’ fellow travelers.
since my timeout for telling the truth is apparently over, im changing my nic….
to Samara Morgan.
i ritually hate you all.
Samara Morgan
testing
Dr. Scott: You don’t want to hurt anyone.
Samara Morgan: But I do, and I’m sorry. It won’t stop. Everyone will suffer.
RP
Winner.
Rome Again
@Observer:
Except that he didn’t.
He put those things on the table knowing he wouldn’t have to give them up. Apparently you are lacking in understanding.
Cris (without an H)
That ship has long ago sailed
Rome Again
@murbella:
What timeout? You mean the one that never started?
Bulworth
Ha ha!
Rome Again
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Last I heard, we still have representative government. We don’t all have a seat at the table where decisions are made. Obama is representing us, and if you think it is to his advantage to show all his cards, you don’t know how to pay poker. If you knew everything that was going on, we would have already lost.
Rome Again
Get me out of moderation, please?
Rome Again
@dpCap:
Free Republic is ~~~~~> that way!
tomvox1
If there was any doubt that these “thoughtful conservative” memes are concocted over cocktails in DC (or that not-great minds think alike), check out George Will taking essentially the same tack as Bobo:
Bulworth
Paging Bobo:
http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-revolt-casts-doubt-house-gop-plan-165838223.html
Samara Morgan
ah.
if you missed it , DougJ gave me a threeday timeout on this thread.
for telling the truth.
Bulworth
And how’s that workin out for ya?
RalfW
Steve King is now calling for the impeachment of Obama just for a default if there is a default. Not for, y’know, high crimes and misdemeanors. Just for defaulting b/c buttmunch Steve King and his friends vote to create a default.
And Brooks has the hairy, shriveled, ugly balls to call Obama the problem? Brooks is dead to me.
And the fucking NYT popup naggingly telling me “You have
5,4,1 more free views this month is damn near as bastardy annoying as that freakshow with glasses (and tiny, ugly, hairy balls).Rome Again
MSNBC is informing me that Reid’s plan can pass the Senate. I had no doubt about that, but it sure would be nice if they could tell us if it can pass the House (which would make it more successful than Boehner’s turd legislation).
RalfW
George Will wore a bowtie on This Week with David Brinkley (yep. I’m old!) for years, so he can just STFU right about yesterday.
ETA: Caesar=Uppity, in case you were wondering.
Rome Again
@RalfW:
It’s too bad Steve King can’t be impeached.
Rome Again
@Samara Morgan:
I didn’t miss it, and I saw you posting on Murbella right afterwards.
agrippa
I suggest that King write a Bill of Impeachment himself and introduce it.
eemom
oh fer fucks sake. toko-loko has ANOTHER new name? Pray tell, which fictional character are you desecrating now?
Pat
The point is Obama’s framing the debate in terms of deficits being some kind of systemic problem when he was elected instead of being (largely) caused by the housing and banking collapses, using the shock doctrine to argue for long-term deficit reduction, which can only translate to cuts in the big 3. He’s conceded the fiscal debate to Republicans. He argues for compromise but he and the Republicans actually agree on the root premise here, a premise at odds with the vast majority of people who voted for Obama. He is supply-sider at heart who sincerely believes that tax cuts drive the economy, that giving the Money Party as much as he can get away with will lift everyone’s boat and cement his legacy, even in the face of decades of contradictory evidence. Someone who reveres Reagan as much as he does couldn’t think otherwise.
wrb
Bulworth @ 11
from your link
Hard to believe an actual AP story was that direct
RalfW
I also wrote a comment last night on BoBo’s column, but as of 2:28 pm Eastern, I haven’t yet gotten the e-mail telling me the comment has been approved.
I asked if Brooks was traumatized by a smart black kid when he was young, so maybe it isn’t an “appropriate” comment. I really just wanted to know why Bobo’s feefees are so damn sensitive to Obama getting 0.01764% agitated over the destruction of the economy (a remarkable feat of self-control, I’d say).
dpCap
AxelFoley @88
Thank you. :)
Scamp Dog
It’s not clear what BoBo meant by this:
Was the pres asking for $800 billion one day, and then $1,200 billion the next? My mistrustful side starts to wonder if this is a mis-statement of asking for $800 billion one day, $400 billion the next, which is called “accomodating the other side”. Which contradicts the desired conclusion, so must be dissembled about…
burnspbesq
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
cleek
@Pat:
i think you need to get your mind-reader recalibrated.
chopper
chan, you got a time-out for being an insufferable asshole. just like the last one.
wrb
A question for those who have listened to Boehner in the past (I’ve turned him off).
Did he sound inebriated last night or does he always sound like that? I thought he was slurring.
Pat
@cleek
So a majority of Obama voters support supply side economics? Do they also think Reagan wasn’t so bad for America after all?
Brachiator
@Pat:
This is wrong. Can you say “War in Iraq?”
This is stupid.
El Cid
It doesn’t matter if something is bad policy, or horrible policy, or will hurt lots of people; as long as it appears that a bold Democratic leadership has tamed its wild liberal wing so as to compromise with an extremely conservative approach, then American politics has been a success.
Pat
Looks like the Loyalty Campaign needs some donations. That racist Firebagger canard doesn’t seem to be working out to well either.
kay
He did.
eemom has been saying from the very beginning that he’s a degenerate drunkard.
I wouldn’t say that. I would say he has a serious drinking problem.
Samara Morgan
@Rome
blacklisting has some lag, and it disappears your last three or four comments. i was banned for three days.
@chopper
i am insufferable asshole but i was RIGHT.
See EDK morph into a Jennifer Rubin clone.
and then gamely try to walk it back.
Breivik was an american movement conservative clone, part of the counter-jihaadi movement of Geller and Robert Spencer, and EDK has a VERY hard time admitting that.
and guess what else?
Breivik is a self-declared LIBERTARIAN on his facebook page.
lolllolol
Kain really didnt like that.
:)
FlipYrWhig
@ Pat : Lots of progressives believe in long-term deficit reduction. That’s not conceding the debate to Republicans. (In fact, vanishingly few Republicans _actually_ believe in deficit reduction qua deficit reduction; they believe in one kind of deficit reduction, which is cutting social welfare programs, and they use the euphemism “deficit reduction” in order to wrap themselves in the flag of business sense rather than stone cold cruelty.) In fact, you probably believe in long-term deficit reduction too, or at least that the government spends too much on certain things that you don’t support and should stop doing it because… “we can’t afford it.” If you’ve ever thought or spoken in similar terms, you’re talking about reallocating spending, which is to say, reducing it in some areas.
I don’t know how we got to this point where we’re pretending that the One True liberal position is that deficits don’t matter at all. I assume that people are saying things like that to be hyperbolic and polemical. They matter. They matter more later than now, I’d say, and that’s why if a deficit/debt reduction plan that may _begin_ to be undertaken in the short run “bends the cost curve” over the long run, it would be entirely consistent with progressive priorities.
El Cid
__
One of the best ways to have distinguished between the corporate ownership and upper-classes which mostly backed the New Deal and those which hysterically opposed it (until some fat contracts began to come their way) were an economic division based on those corporate interests.
Companies whose markets were in large part internationally oriented backed the New Deal. Many of the programs themselves came from research and policy groups funded by the Rockefellers and such.
Whereas corporations whose profits were entirely based on national sales and contracts were those represented by the National Association of Manufacturers, and were most of the aforesaid hollerers.
People tend to say “corporations” or “the rich” do this, and then when they all don’t, that means obviously the theory was wrong.
Except, it wasn’t — you just have to begin breaking down the scenario as appropriate.
A lot of arguments which may sound outlandish or conspiratorial today, particularly with regard to the overwhelming (but not clockwork or absolute) domination of US politics by the super-rich and corporate classes are at least uncontroversial by the time academics are doing their research several decades hence.
FlipYrWhig
Well, that’s what you get when the country elects a bunch of buttholes to the majority in the part of the government that controls funding. “American politics” will have been a relative success if it accomplishes “harm reduction.” Like a needle-exchange program. You’re still addicted, but at least you’re eliminating some amount of additional, gratuitous disease.
(edited slightly after posting)
Pat
That became Obama’s war in 2009. He doesn’t get to pass the buck to Bush for the billing on policies he continued.
This is stupid.
Bulworth
Yeah, that puzzled me, too.
If Obama “agreed to” $800 bill in more revenues, it implies that someone else likewise agreed to that amount. Who?
cleek
@Pat:
until you fix your mind reader, we’ll never know what hundreds of millions people really believe. we’ll have to make do with simply speaking for ourselves! horror.
Rome Again
@Samara Morgan:
That’s right, and in the same thread where I saw someone talking about your banning, I saw you posting as murbella. You are not being honest here MC.
FlipYrWhig
@ Bulworth : There was some back and forth about this on the MSNBC coverage after the speech — something about how there was an agreement for $800B, then a new pitch to add $400B more _in exchange for something else_. For some reason the Republicans got all in a dither about how that was dirty. I’m not sure why it would be, though: is it dirty dealing to say, “I can sell you this TV for $350, sure, and we’ll both be fine with that. But come up to $450 and you could get a much better one”?
Tone In DC
rikyrah – July 26, 2011 | 12:10 pm · Link
just say it Bobo
UPPITY NIGGER
Black folks like me are just waiting for the mofos to just be HONEST.
________________________________________________
No doubt. A few of these asshats have come damn close already, since mid 2008. And not just Limbaugh and Glenn “Up the dosage” Beck, either.
Rome Again
I listened to both Obama (completely, his voice was mostly soothing even if what he was saying wasn’t) and Boehner (who I had to turn off after about two minutes because he sounded like a petulant asshole). I don’t think that word Angry means what Bobo thinks it means.
kay
This is what happened:
Boehner had no intention of making a deal, because as has become apparent, he can’t even get his House to go along with draconian cuts and zero revenue, so he demanded holding the health care law hostage.
Because he knew he could never get Grover to allow tax increases.
David Brooks is a dishonest hack. The whole piece is inaccurate, by omission. He left all the GOP parts out. It’s pure propaganda. They’re spinning like crazy.
Pat
I am 48 years old and I’ve been hearing that since I voted for Walter Mondale. Of course they matter, but it’s a question of what you’re willing to pay for, not how much you can get by with. If we have to run modest deficits to fund all the shit I think everyone needs in addition to a lot things I disagree with, then I can live with that. The employment of deficits as shock doctrine to highjack entitlements thru the back door and escape blame from his base for it is a cynical (and lamely executed) ploy and a big part of why Obama’s support is slipping among liberals.
chopper
chan, nobody gives a fuck about your opinions about EDK. seriously, nobody. you made your point 10,000 times. we. don’t. care.
cleek
@Pat:
this is just delusional.
Samara Morgan
@Rome
i am being honest. blacklisting takes a few minits.
i should know. :)
did you see me commenting over the last three days?
ask Cole. he had to unban me, because Doug wasn’t going to.
so…your name.
do you think America is Rome again? i kinda do.
like on 4th July the eating contests kinda parallel the Roman vomitoriums.
i just ordered this book.
Samara Morgan
@Pat
“That became Obama’s war in 2009.”
hardly. Obama has been trying to GTFO since his inaugration.
the minisurge was the same tactic as the surge– cover to leave.
he gave McC what he ax for, McC couldn’t do it and publically fired himself in the Rollingstone.
The basic problem is COIN cant work in muslim nations.
al-Islam is an uninvadable strategy.
Rome Again
@Samara Morgan:
You are under the impression that I don’t understand the banning software on BJ. I happen to live with someone who was once banned here, that didn’t stop him from posting on another name (at least he was honest about doing so when he was doing it).
Samara Morgan
@chopper. you mean YOU don’t care.
i think the serving of humiliation for mistermix, Cole and DougJ is fresh and delicious everytime.
:)
of course, Cole is probably just going to find a new glibertarian rentboi to hold hands with, but now that im unbanned, ill shred that one too.
Samara Morgan
w/e, Rome.
think what you like.
but AAHHHHMMMM BACK!
and i was right! i was right! i was right!
bobbo
While of course it sounds good, I don’t understand the view here that our Overlords giving the green light to politic the debt ceiling means the crisis has passed. Couldn’t it also mean the crisis is inevitable and they’re readying the blame machine in the event?
chopper
no, i mean we. we don’t care. your bringing EDK up in every goddamn thread nonwithstanding, we don’t fucking care.
Rome Again
I can handle the idiotic arguments of trolls on this site that raise other people’s blood pressure – but this idiotic foot-stamping from Motako_Chan has me looking for Cleek’s Pie filter. Luckily I just saw it posted last night on a recent thread.
Pat
@cleek
Why aren’t entitlements off the table then? Why does Obama employ the wordplay of deficit hawks and lend credence to the unsupported notion that there is a looming Social Security crisis? Why not talk about raising the salary cap BEFORE mentioning cutting benefits and raising the retirement age? It’s because he really believes we need to cut entitlements but must massage the base into thinking only Republicans would try that. Convincing his base of that would be a political master stroke and his crowning achievement as President. He’s all-in with the banksters and neoliberals who think austerity is what the rabble needs to right the ship but he can’t sell it to his base without a new coat of paint.
Tone In DC
I feel bad for EDK. His fan club is enough to test the patience of Job.
Mike Lamb
I’ll add on to chopper, so there’s definitely a “we”. Matoko whatever reminds me of a crazy street preacher that I had to walk by every day and listen to him spout out incomprehensible gibberish.
Pat
Rome Again
@Pat:
Nothing was offered, it was only discussed.
arguingwithsignposts
@rubella/samara whosits – thanks for at least warning us so the pie filters could be updated quickly. I noted your stalkerish behavior continues unabated. Toodaloo
cleek
@Pat:
because, like it or not, “entitlements” actually do need some tweaking, and if that can get done as part of this deal, then they should do it. if the GOP can walk away being able to tell the wingnuts that they “took on entitlements” and the Dems can say they helped ensure SS and Medi*’s long-term fiscal health, then that’s a good deal.
you should try to lay off the mind-reading and the grand conspiracy theories.
signifyingmnky
@Pat
There is so much cognitive dissonance in this post that it’s impossible to believe that you honestly believe any of it. The only logical conclusion I can come to after reading it is that you’re posting it here for some other motivation that honest concern.
Do you really have nothing better to do than spam a thread like this with claims that even you know are bogus? Or is someone making it worth your time?
I’d really like an answer to that.
wrb
Means nothing without knowing the specific cuts proposed. There are lots of cuts that could be made that would be in keeping with a progressive agends.
After all, one of the primary progressive goals behind health care reform was reducing the cost of health care and thus cutting medicare.
Means testing social security is another form of cutting that many, although not all, progressives favor.
I’ve seen a number of things that suggest that Obama was using this to get Republicans to make cuts that they normally would have fought- like the above and cuts to the military- and he almost suckered them, but they finally figured out that they were being had and backed out.
Pat
@cleek
You don’t have to be a mind reader to draw the conclusion that most Democratic voters don’t support Reagan-style trickle down economics, the idea that cutting the top tiers’ taxes will improve the economy for all tiers, mostly because it’s been thoroughly discredited in the wake of the Bush tax cuts. If you need to read people’s minds to draw that then your read on the political landscape cold use some refreshing. Of course, Obama and Blue Dogs are working hard to shift that but I don’t think you can say that they’ve won that battle just yet.
Observer
@Rome Again:
“Grand bargain” doesn’t refer to specific items so what the specific offer was is completely irrelevant.
If you think someone is nuts you then don’t around saying you’re going to do a bargain – grand or otherwise – with them.
Lord, can we please have a smarter left flank.
Mike Lamb
Pat…
So when Obama begged for a vote to extend middle class tax cuts and sunset the tax cuts on $250k+ before the 2010 midterms, that was just bullshit?
wrb
Pat:
You are talking crazy. This thing was at a stalemate in part because Obama dug in, insisting that taxes on the richest be RAISED.
Have you been following at all?
Pat
Insult-free citations needed.
signifyingmnky
@Pat
That post is the only citation necessary. You made several points that have no relation to reality at all.
Again, I’m asking why you feel it necessary to spam this thread with information that so easily proven false that it’s impossible to believe that you actually believe it.
Do you have an answer for that?
signifyingmnky
@Observer (160)
The nutty Republicans control the house, which is part of a co-equal branch of government, and controls the origination of budget legislation. In other words, they have a grip on the purse strings necessary to make policy financially possible.
You cannot ignore them.
You cannot pass legislation without them.
You don’t have any other option but to negotiate to get regular business done.
That’s how this government works.
Pat
Yeah, I’m a grifting Firebagger rakin in big-time online donations for doing this. I was hoping to persuade all you BJ-ers to primary Obama but now you’ve caught me red handed sdo I guess I gotta go back to my regular job tossing old ladies from their homes and dining at Daniel with my Wall Street homies. Wait up Jane, I’ll be right there!
Lojasmo
I want to pie everybody except reality check, so I can e-kick a racist in the balls all day.
Here is a pre-emotive appology, since I know r.c. Will get all but-hurt and demand one.
Roger you in the butt with a broken bottle, reality check.
Lojasmo
NiggerNiggerNiggerNigger
Ah, now I feel better. Seriously.
I worked a case with a republican anesthetist today. He knows I follow this shit, and took it as license to jabber “centrist” bullshit at me for an hour. I ended up walking out of the room because I seriously was about to tear his goddamned head off.
+1. I am going to mow the lawn. Hopefully I don’t mangle my feet with the mower.
signifyingmnky
@Pat
Thanks for the non-answer…I think…
Lojasmo
+3 feet intact.
Boehner is a lying slug.