I’ve been reading the distressed meepings of people like Maggie Gallagher, Ross Douthat and Rod Dreher lately because I am mean-spirited enough to relish the schadenfreude as gay rights opponents are swept to sea by a turning tide.
There’s plenty of that at Rod Dreher’s joint, but today he highlights something Hillary Clinton said last week at the Women in The World Summit:
“Far too many women are still denied critical access to reproductive health care and safe childbirth. All the laws we’ve passed don’t count for much if they’re not enforced,” Clinton said.
“Rights have to exist in practice — not just on paper,” Clinton argued. “Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will.”
“And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed,” Clinton added.
That’s true in the same way Obama’s “bitter clinger” remarks were true back in aught-eight. I’m surprised Clinton’s statement isn’t being shouted from the rooftops by every English-speaking wingnut blog; maybe it’s still being processed in the pipes of the mighty Wurlitzer.
If so, it will be framed as a “gaffe” in the same sense “bitter clingers” was a gaffe, i.e., a truth that is politically inconvenient. Because it is true: Rights that people can’t practice are worthless. And despite Dreher & Co.’s indignant sputtering about the immutable nature of their religious beliefs, those evolve to conform to changing social mores too, as Dreher’s embarrassed grandchildren will one day attest.
Fair Economist
Good for Clinton for recognizing laws don’t enforce themselves. That kind of attitude at the top could make a difference for a lot of things, from women’s rights to financial manipulations to police brutality.
FlipYrWhig
Her context was clearly the developing world. IF ONLY it had been a more general statement that pointed the finger at us ourselves.
boatboy_srq
My brain did something here that made me think “Jamie Farr is upset that Hillary’s running? Huh?”
Showing my age again, I guess…
White Trash Liberal
That’s nothing that wasn’t uttered by neocons when discussing the advent of democracy in Iraq. Conservatives are all about reforming deep seated cultural and religious values when it involves Islam.
boatboy_srq
THIS.
dmsilev
From the tags on that article,
What a …fascinating combination.
fuckwit
If she keeps going this way, I’ll be happy supporting her. Hopefully, many millions will too.
gene108
EDIT: From the link at the top of the page.
I think we should go back to burning witches at the stake, because religious beliefs are immutable and the Church used to have a strong incentive to protect Americans from the evils of witchcraft, but today’s Church no longer cares about secret pacts with Satan that causes milk to curdle, children to get rashes and other evils.
The Church now wastes its time dickering about gay marriage, when the real threat of witchcraft has been allowed to persist in society and is routinely made light of in popular media, with such T.V. shows at Bewitched, Charmed, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Betty Cracker
@FlipYrWhig: That’s not clear to me at all. I read a transcript, and she brought up several issues in the US, e.g, equal pay, Hobby Lobby dictating reproductive policy, etc.
Josie
Maybe it’s just a little too cerebral for some of them to grok.
kc
Has Twitter called Clinton a cultural imperialist yet?
MobiusKlein
So Hillary is out there complaining about Sharia law, and the Fundies back here get their knickers in a twist?
very revealing.
kavie
Steve M. dissects this claim rather nicely.
patrick II
Do we have to change deep seated religious beliefs, or do we have to change religious people’s idea that they have the right to assert their religious beliefs on the rest of us through the law. They can believe what they want, if you don’t believe in gay marriage, don’t marry a gay, if you don’t believe in birth control, don’t practice birth control (wink, wink Catholics). Just don’t expect the government to make a law making those decisions for me.
scav
@gene108: Let us not forget usury. Christianity has utterly abandoned its strong, principled, moral stance on that since the Holy (if remarkably Dim) Age.
Josie
I had a moment of clarity last night while watching PBS’s latest Henry VIII epic. Sir Thomas More told Cromwell he wished to harm no one. Cromwell reminded him of the man he tortured so badly (in the name of religion) that he had to be carried on a chair to be burned at the stake. It all depends on one’s viewpoint as to who is being harmed.
the Conster
Yes, but according to Paultards none of that matters if she uses drones because reasons.
Karen in GA
Have I mentioned how much I’m looking forward to the next three million months of campaigning and all of the brilliant analysis and punditry that will come with it?
I want to hide under my bed until Election Day next year, come out to vote for Hillary, then crawl back under my bed. Unless she has a credible primary challenger; then just shove some info about him/her under the door and I might drag myself out for the primary vote.
Chris
One of my best friends is a Rust Belter, who supported Clinton in the primary and was incensed by the “bitter clinger” remark.
After Obama had won the primary and he’d had the summer to cool off, when I saw him again in the fall and the topic came up somehow, he went “well, it’s basically true.”
RaflW
There are quite a few Republican philanderers who have seriously benefitted from changing “cultural codes & religious beliefs:”
Trollhattan
Maybe the difference here is Hillary said those thinks openly, publicly from prepared remarks while Obama’s comment was captured surreptitiously from a one-on-one conversation at come kind of private event. A supposed “gotcha” in the fashion of Willard’s 47% reveal.
Am still trying to figure out how Obama’s comment was anything less than 100% spot on.
Davis X. Machina
@gene108:
No can do. Blows the EPA sub-10μ particulate standard all to hell.
gene108
@Trollhattan:
Obama made it sort of sound like a bad thing that people get obsessed with guns or religion, as if they are taking the place of some other sort of fulfillment in their lives that is lost to the current generation.
The Thomas Frank What’s the Matter with Kansas tries to speculate, why people are so dug into gun ownership and religion, but the way it is speculated comes across as those things are “coping mechanisms” the same way people drink too much to “cope” with what hurts them.
I do not think either Frank or Obama are entirely wrong about people clinging to what they have and know, when other forms of security – such as economic security – are being lost, but there has to be a better way to phrase the issue than making something people find enjoyable seem like an addicts way of “coping” with problems.
Laertes
If you’re not a winger, you’ll read that passage several times before you see the bit that’s likely to annoy them. The 27% already hate Clinton’s guts. Everyone else will either shrug or cheer.
Keep looking.
Violet
@patrick II:
Some of both, honestly. Sure it would be nice if the laws didn’t reflect backwards religious beliefs, but part of getting to that point is changing people’s religious beliefs. Or at least changing what parts they think they have to follow and what parts they can ignore. Like Christians generally ignore the “stoning of adulterers” part these days. So there’s precedent for ignoring other parts.
KS in MA
@patrick II:
THIS.
aimai
@FlipYrWhig: Her context was both the developing world where she has a goddamned long track record and here. The right wing are going to insist that she means Christianity where she clearly means lots of world religions and local cultures including some forms of Christianity. Of course they would agree with this sentiment if she’d said “Muslim cultures.” Douthat et al are incapable of thinking in a principled, abstract, way about things. Their religious solipsism is an emotional egocentricism that makes it impossible for them to conceive of a basic principle, like human rights, that doesn’t bow before their particular sectarian issues.
Jay C
@patrick II:
Well, ideally (IMHO, anyway) the answer to these questions should be No and Yes, respectively.
But to religious-conservative types like Rod Dreher, the latter clause is the whole crux of the issue. I read his stuff every so often when I drop in at AmCon for foreign-policy good-sense from Daniel Larison, and it all (lately) has been pretty much the same-old, same-old.
To Dreher (and his legion of [probably strawman] correspondents), the notion of a secular society is somehow intrinsically bad, and that religious “beliefs” – whether specific doctrinal tenets, or more-generalized “morality” – ought to be enshrined in the law. And that a [just/righteous/godly/moral/pick-your-own-holy-holy-adjective] society can’t be considered one if it isn’t informed by -or run on – religious principles.
Of course, all of this gets fairly well shrouded in the cloud of sniffy indignation and whiny persecution-complex he lards his opinion pieces with, but at least Dreher tries to avoid the all-too-common “defense” of his views, as one might find on other RW blogs, i.e. “Because shut up you filthy atheist”
Amir Khalid
Dreher’s position seems to be that God’s will, as understood by religious men of centuries past, is not to be questioned even when it is seen to have absurd or inhumane consequences. That living with such consequences is what the truly devout do, as proof of their acceptance of divine will. I think one must chose between accepting the strange proposition that God is fickle and reckless about the consequences of blind obedience, and accepting that we are free to think our way through any situation.
@gene108:
And Harry Potter. Let’s not forget Harry Potter.
Frank McCormick
Except even then, the quotes are not in context.
http://www.nomoremister.blogspot.com/2015/04/gotcha-hillary-no-not-really.html
Betty Cracker
@Frank McCormick: Ha, I hadn’t seen that, but while I usually agree with Steve M, I don’t think he’s correct here, if he’s saying that HRC’s remarks apply solely to the developing world. Steve recommends a longer excerpt than the would-be gotcha wingnuts, but if you read the entire speech, HRC talks about the US and the developing world. I don’t think it’s any more correct to say she JUST meant the developing world than to say she JUST meant the US.
MattF
@Laertes: True. They just despise her.
rk
Do you really think the republican base has the capacity to understand such complex language. These guys have difficulty with simple spelling. They’ll get mad when Rush translates it for them. Give it a few days.
Brachiator
This is too mild, if you look at conditions in the US.
The GOP in various states have passed new laws to take away women’s reproductive rights. At the federal level, the GOP dominated Congress are obsessed with abortion and estate taxes, and don’t give a fart about anything else, except for Clinton and Obama hate.
I like how Clinton is throwing down a challenge. The GOP loves to try to impose a rigid and false fundamentalist vision on developing countries when it comes to aid tied to restricting contraception. Hillary is rightfully having none of it.
NCSteve
Wait, are you saying I have to free my slaves and concubines but I can wear cotton-wool blends and eat shrimp?
Chris
@Brachiator:
I like any attempt to tie the Republican plan for society to those of islamists in the Middle East and other reactionaries in the third world and among America’s enemies (e.g. Putin’s government and its run on homophobia).
Republicans have been attacking the Democratic Party forever as a Trojan horse for remaking our society into something closer to our enemies’. The more we return the favor, the better. (It’s not like it’s not true).
Frankensteinbeck
@gene108:
I’m not sure how to address it in more complimentary terms, when the current ‘gun rights’ and ‘religious rights’ situations are so unhealthy, pathological, and indeed demented. How do you address that their motivations are due to being delusional, insecure, paranoid, bigoted, selfish, mean-spirited assholes and both deal with the problem and not make it sound insulting?
Pogonip
Drive us into the catacombs if you will, Betty, but at night we will emerge and egg your cars.
Unlike Rod, I am not terribly worried about American Christendom. The expanding black and brown American populations are mostly Christian. We’ve got you Moralistic Therapeutic Deists, as Rod calls you, outnumbered. We ain’t going anywhere for a long time.
Villago Delenda Est
Dreher’s “religious beliefs” are garbage. As is Dreher.
Hildebrand
@gene108: Actually, most witches were hanged, not burned at the stake (English law prohibited burning witches). Some witches were beheaded, drowned, or died on the rack. Heretics, on the other hand, were regularly burned at the stake.
Mike J
The Southern Baptists were formed explicitly to defend the religious freedom of believing that black people are inferior to white people. They claim they don’t believe that now, and actually have an apology for their role in perpetuating slavery on their website.
They also claim they accept only the completely inerrant bible as a guide to right and wrong, but the bible never changed after the civil war.
MattF
@Hildebrand: Of course, the Church didn’t execute anyone– heretics and apostates were ‘relaxed to the secular arm’ and then dealt with.
Seanly
I don’t think this will carry the weight of “bitter clinger”. Clinton’s statement is ambiguous enough to apply or not apply to lots of people. Plus Rod Dreher is an overwrought ninny with a persecution complex.
Chris
@Hildebrand:
Out of all the things done in the name of religion, this one might just take the cake for sheer absurdity. So you believe there are supernatural beings out there who can curse you for all eternity… and your reaction to this is to break down their door, drag them to prison, lock them up for a few nights, put them on a very public trial and then give them a very public hanging, giving them all the time they need to identify each and every one of their enemies in town.
And you’re not even a little bit afraid that this supernatural being is going to react to any of this by cursing you or coming back to haunt you.
I can’t access YouTube on this computer, otherwise I’d be linking to that conversation from The Dark Knight between Morgan Freeman’s character and the World’s Dumbest Blackmailer. “Good luck!”
scav
OT OK, Tulsa continues interesting with the Undersherriff resigning. Parsing amusement.
Nothing is wrong mind you, we just feel the need to stop the Chacha and go with a Tango maybe a Two-Step, the Leadership is fine, as is the Management, they just feel like a change. Nothing to see here: Watch this sashay.
Because that’s totally the phrasing of a man completely on-board and in control of the utter non-issue.
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: @aimai: I think the whole statement is a new riff on the famous address to the UN Conference on Women: Women’s Rights Are Human Rights, 1995. If “we” are implicated, then, great; but for the most part the target is backwardness and traditionalism in the developing world. YMMV.
Paul in KY
Actually think her quote was bit more nuanced & better stated than Pres. Obama’s ‘clinging’ comments were. That said, I think she was speaking in a situation where she was 100% sure her remarks would be recorded & disseminated.
Cacti
@patrick II:
You’ve more or less identified the problem with the right wing version of “religious freedom”. Under their version, religious people are “free” to exercise a religious veto over your non-religious rights as a citizen.
The most prominent example of course is, pharmacists are no longer just licensed by the state to dispense legal, and properly prescribed controlled medications. They also get to act as your spiritual intermediary based on their individual religious beliefs.
Tenar Darell
@Betty Cracker:
If she doesn’t back away from those statements about Hobby Lobby, and points out that her usual framing of “abortion should be safe, legal and rare” doesn’t allow its obliteration by making it economically and practically inaccessible for the poor, the marginalized, the young, and the vulnerable, then maybe she’s worth her salt. Because, after Purvi Patel and Bei Bei Shuai in Indiana, it’s clear that the side which would put these women in jail will use even the law against women’s hard won rights to full and equal humanity.
Trentrunner
1. Obama’s “bitter clinger” comment was so devastating he lost two consecutive presidential elections and lived out the rest of his life in humiliating obscurity.
2. If Hillary’s smart, she’ll get specific real fast if challenged on this, e.g., “Well, if your religion requires that infant girls get genitally mutilated or that rape victims be stoned or that birth control be banned, then, yes, that needs to change.”
Chris
@Cacti:
It’s a real problem that I run into among a plethora of religious people; a ton of people, even beyond the rabid Foxbots, really don’t grok the difference between “religious freedom” and your religion getting your way all the time. Plenty of my fellow Catholics see the efforts to exempt themselves from all the public regulations they don’t like concerning health care and birth control, then to ban access to these things everywhere they can… and make no distinction between that and fighting to protect yourself from the Know-Nothings, Bowery Boys and Ku Klux Klan from back in the day. It’s all “religious freedom” (spelled “Catholics get their way always”) to them. Extends well beyond Catholics, too.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Totally and completely OT, but holy shit do I need some B-J emotional support right now.
My oldest stepbrother was diagnosed with lung cancer last year and we were very hopeful at the time, but we just found out this morning that he’s been given 30 days. I’m flying out to Florida on Thursday so I can arrive the same day as my mom, because she is devastated beyond belief right now. She was just getting over my dad’s death, and now this.
Roger Moore
@patrick II:
These aren’t separate issues. A lot of religious people have a religious belief in the importance of enforcing their beliefs on everyone. The Bible, especially the later prophets, makes a big deal about this; God is supposed to punish a whole country for the sins of its residents, even if not all of them participate. That gives them the justification for forcing their views on everyone.
Tree With Water
Hillary Clinton could recite the Sermon on the Mount and she’d be attacked by the Wurlitzer. In turn, the Wurlitzer’s deranged chords serve to rally democrats of all stripes to her side. It’s an interesting dynamic, however much I despise it.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): This is very sad news. I know this must be hard on you and your family.
Words are not enough, I know, but please know that you have my deepest sympathy.
scav
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Will sound inept, but head down, breathe, get though this short phase when you’re alone and still getting there. Then your plate will be full and that generally somehow helps. Because that’s where the important stuff is and at that point, once there, you just do the important stuff first because there are no other options. You’ll do your best. Take care. Yourself and everybody.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Hugs. Sorry to hear that. You will be a comfort.
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m sorry for what you and your family are now facing. At this point, I fear the best you can hope for is that the palliative care is effective at controlling your step-brother’s pain. Having suffered the loss of two family members within 6 months (grandmother and mother) I unfortunately have at least a sense of the emotional trauma all of you are facing.
Just One More Canuck
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry to hear that Mnemosyne. My best wishes to you and your family
burnspbesq
@NCSteve:
Not only that, you can shave if you want.
raven
@NCSteve: I just made reservations for a week at Topsail!
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry.
Emma
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I am so, so sorry. Sometimes the bad comes all at once, and without warning. I can never forget my favorite cousin — we were very close, as he was my “father confessor” and cheerleading squad — dying suddenly after surviving a kidney transplant. The night before his death we had been making plans to go traveling again. And then he was gone the next morning. It still hurts like hell at times.
Hang on and hold the rest of the family close. It’s all you can do.
Violet
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Oh, gosh. I’m very sorry to hear that. How terrible for your family. Your poor mom. :( It’s good that you can be there to support her and the rest of the family. Sending you supportive thoughts. Remember to take care of yourself during this difficult time.
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven: Come on down! Perhaps we can meet up for a drink!
burnspbesq
@Chris:
Exactly.
I’m Catholic, but I know my Irish history, and I have exactly zero interest in living in a Catholic theocracy.
Catholics are far from unique in failing to understand that the Establishment Clause means more than just “no state religion,” and that the Exercise Claus protects freedom from religion every bit as much as it protects freedom of religion.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation are a bunch of sanctimonious jackasses, but they serve a useful purpose.
Redshift
One of the clown car passengers declared this weekend that marriage has been defined as one man and one woman “since before we had laws.” If our media could be bothered to get as worked up about Republicans as they do parsing the exact wording of Democrats, this would be clear evidence that the guy has never read the Bible, since it’s full of “one man and one or more women” marriages.
Tenar Darell
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m so sorry to hear that. Let me convey my deepest sympathies. I’ve lost my mother and an aunt to that disease. The first thoughts that usually come into my head about cancer, especially lung cancer, is “Fnuck lung cancer with a rusty spork!” /I hope that made you laugh
Now for something more constructive than my swearing. There’s undoubtedly a local cancer support organizations wherever you’re in Florida, get in touch with them, they may have recommendations and referrals for organizations that can help you all. And, one thing my family learned the hardest way, make sure he gets set up with good local hospice support ASAP.
Every family has different reactions to death. Whatever works is my motto, as long as it starts from what your brother wants. Don’t forget to take care of yourself while trying to help your family.
Redshift
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry to hear that. We’re here for you, for all the good it may do.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Hildebrand:
Correct. You can still visit “The Drop Room” in Lancaster Castle where the Pendle Witches were taken out to be hung. I spent New Year’s Eve 1999 there, they had the buffet set out in the drop room and the disco was in the Norman Keep. What a night that was.
Mike in NC
@raven: Have yet to visit Topsail, so I know nothing about it. Wife and some of her gaming friends are going there in October for a couple of days. Much wine will be drunk.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
A need like you have right now is never off-topic here. (((Hugs)))
Mary G
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): So sorry to hear that. Just a bolt out of the blue. Take care of yourself as well as your mom and family.
raven
@Mike in NC: My wife went there with her family. We stopped through a few years back and it seemed fine. I couldn’t get a place on the Outer Banks or the Gulf so I looked there. We got a nice little house that takes mutt’s for a decent price so off we’ll go!
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: Maybe so, I intend to fish from dawn till dusk but it might rain!
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I am so sorry. Sometimes all the shit seems to rain down at once, and all you can do is be there for each other. Safe travels.
Botsplainer
@Amir Khalid:
While my wife and I were watching “House of Cards”(US) this weekend, there was a funeral at Arlington National Cemetary depicted. The officiating priest was attempting to utilize the tale of Abraham and Isaac to talk about obedience and mercy. All of a sudden my wife blurts “I never thought about it before, but that whole story is the stupidest fucking thing I think I ever heard. It makes no sense”.
askew
I am more concerned that she has been campaigning for 2 weeks and has yet to actually do any interviews or meet with anyone that wasn’t pre-screened for her campaign.
The fact that the Clinton Foundation has gone from having to refile 3 years of taxes to 5 years due to errors in the past 24 hours isn’t helping any.
I think she should do an interview or something to change the narrative which is all negative all the time for Hillary. There is just nothing for Dems to excited about with her campaign right now. Even her editorial in today’s Des Moines Register offered nothing but vague nothingness and highlighted only Iowans which had been hand-picked by her campaign to talk to her.
I’ve never seen a candidate for president that seems less interested in interacting with voters or anyone that is not 100% friendly.
Pogonip
@Amir Khalid: I frequently tell people “God would not have given you the ability to reason if he didn’t want you to use it.”. Nobody pays attention.
Karen S.
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m sorry to hear this. All my best wishes and comfort to you and your family.
Elizabelle
Watching C-Span rebroadcast of #hackprom. Cecily Strong:
It was a good program this year. Nobody’s ever going to surpass Colbert, though.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Oh, I am so incredibly sorry. That is so awful. We just went through this with my father so I know how hard it can be. Cherish the time you have with your stepbrother.
boatboy_srq
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Safe travels, and take as much time as you can: “30 days” is a terribly elastic diagnosis (when Dad passed we went from 6 months (one month) to 6 weeks (the next month) to “come home NOW (the month after that) – I flew in on a Thursday afternoon, he went into ICU that Friday morning and was gone the next Monday).
NotoriousJRT
She did not talk about the religion of guns, so maybe it is not such a big deal.
CaseyL
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Oh, no; I’m so sorry to hear that. Lots of suggestions here are good ones. \
My own small experience with family crises and impending grief has taught me that staying busy doing something people need done (even if only just listening and holding hands) is helpful in keeping one’s head above water.
boatboy_srq
@Chris:
THIS, also.
greennotGreen
Mnemosyne, our thoughts are with you and your family. For what it’s worth, your extended BJ family is always here with a virtual shoulder.
scav
@Redshift: Not to mention that by referring to marriages before the bible (let alone laws) does rather suggest that marriage has a pre-biblical standing and is thus defined independently of that late-blooming evolving codificatiion of whatever it is between the covers. So, wouldn’t we be getting back to origins by cleansing the church of its marriage restriction and management tasks? Or, maybe we should just throw up our hands and let it handle all our personal, personel, property and deed restrictions and management tasks, sort of a one-stop all spiritual and legal needs met DMV-Plus Station (Divinity Motor Vehicles).
Thou shalt not rent a Porche after thou hath purchased a Ford-4-Door neither shalt thou purchase acreage from a cousin in lesser than the fourth degree for that is unseemly in the eyes of the Lord. Neither shalt thou hire a twin without hiring his brethren, lest thou employ Essau instead of Jacob.
NotoriousJRT
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I am so sorry for this terrible news. A favorite cousin (non-smoker) got a lung cancer diagnosis about a month or so ago; it is not operable. She is in a study, and I am hoping for the best. But, damn, it is hard to come to grips with it. I hope you find some peace and comfort at the end of this journey.
kc
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Mnemosyne, that’s awful. I’m so sorry.
boatboy_srq
@Pogonip:
The problem is with definitions, as I mentioned earlier here. To far too many FundiEvangelist wingnuts, there IS no Christendom that is not circumscribed by their own little sect, and frequently by their own little parish. Dreher, Huckabee, Cruz et al are all pandering to that group (assuming, of course, that each of them is not convinced that the Body of Christ is a single human – that single human being themselves, naturally). To them, “Christians” are and will eternally be “under attack” simply because the entire remainder of Christendom (never mind the rest of the planet) thinks they’re whack jobs, doesn’t buy into their garbage and would be not displeased if they all disappeared tomorrow.
Woodrow/Asim
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I am so sorry.
Like someone else said, focusing on helping others is oftentimes the best way to get through this, as banal as it sounds.
I lost my Mom, and only having to organize things (including wackiness around her insurance) got me through that. And then, just over a year later, I lost her parents, and an aunt on the other side, all within a Month of Xmas. And, again, being there for others, esp. over the holidays, is what got me through the worst of that.
The other thing? Not being afraid of your emotions, esp. your grief and anger. Don’t bottle it in — don’t make it negative, but make sure that you get that shit out with a quickness, lest it fester.
boatboy_srq
@boatboy_srq: Bad link. Better one here. FYWP.
gwangung
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Ack. Ack. Ack.
Very sorry to hear that. Hugs and sympathy.
leeleeFL
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Thoughts with you and yours . Sorry for this awful news.
Aimai
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): so so very sorry mnemosyne. My thoughts are with you.
Schlemazel
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
It all it sort of hollow over the Internet but rest assured there are a lot of people sending you good wishes. I don’t know what it might be but you should ask here for help is you can think of anything. I am so sorry that your family has to go through this.
Duke of Clay
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): My heart goes out to you. We got this call about my wife’s brother in 2009, only months after their older sister had died. I hope knowing that I and others here are thinking of you helps you through this most difficult time.
Mustang Bobby
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I can’t imagine what you and your family are going through, but I hold you and them in my thoughts.
RSA
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry to hear the news. You have my best wishes.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Damnit. Hang in, Mnem.
feebog
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
So sorry to hear this. Safe travel and take care of yourself.
Roger Moore
@Pogonip:
Latinos may be mostly Christian, but Asian Americans, the other rapidly growing non-white ethnic group, are much less likely to be. Not to mention that a lot of the Christian immigrants are the wrong kind of Christians.
Tom Levenson
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): All my sympathy. Went through something similar with my mom years back. It’s just wretched. So sorry.
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): So very sorry to hear this. And it’s probably not just your mom who is just getting over your dad’s death. Sending good thoughts for all of you.
Seanly
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m so sorry to hear your news. My thoughts are with you.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m sorry. What a kick in the teeth.
Tree With Water
@Roger Moore: In a long ago MASH episode, Charles Emerson Winchester of Boston referred to such wrong-headed Christians as “that Irish crowd”.
gogol's wife
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I am so sorry. I wish you strength.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry, and for whole family, too.
Betty Gray
@Mnemosyne
I understand your Mother’s pain. I lost my husband in Jan.of 2015, and my youngest son in 2011.
Betty Gray
Joy in FL
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): so so sorry. Sending you and your family support and caring.
Tree With Water
“Will Hillary Clinton oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement and the fast track authority designed to ramrod it through the Congress?”.
I think that’s an excellent question, and it’s posted over at Crooks & Liars.com.
How about it, all you Hillary supporters? Do any of you have the slightest clue what she thinks? I don’t. And does it even matter to you which side she favors? I tend to think not, if only because her track record on the Bush-Cheney War is hardly stellar, and yet millions of you overlook it.
Ella in New Mexico
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): God bless you and your family. We’ve been through this same diagnosis not once but twice with people who were dear to us, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy. This is going to be hard, but it’s a good reminder of just how stupid and silly and completely a waste of our precious time so much of what goes down in this world as being “important” really is. Take care. :-)
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Sorry about your stepbrother. Hang in there Mnems. And don’t forget to take care of yourself while taking care of your mom.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Sorry to hear this news. My prayers will be with you and your family.
Svensker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
So sorry to hear this. Peace and strength to you and your family.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Thank you, everyone. It was hard with my dad, but at least he was older and he was the same age as when his own father and grandfather had died. When it’s a sibling, it hits home a lot more.
EthylEster
@Mike J: from the S Baptists regarding uninviting Ben Carson from one of their events
So..not all humans are god’s children..got it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Just catching up after a BJ-less afternoon, and I’m sure others have said more eloquently what is in my heart, but Mnem, I am so very sorry to hear this. Do please take good care of yourself, so you can be supportive for your mom and fully present for your brother and his family. I hope he remains as comfortable and pain free as possible for however much time remains to him (which, of course, I hope will be plenty long enough to confound the doctors). You have big {{{hugs}}} from here.
Ann Marie
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m so sorry. My thoughts and prayers with you and your family.
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Gray:
I am terribly sorry for your losses. As with Mnemosyne, and Soonergrunt, and every single one of us who has coped with illness and loss, we’re here for you whenever you need us. Or, a better way to put that would be, we’re here for each other.
ms_canadada
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Oh, my dear…big hugs of support from Ontario, Canada. Take care.
phoebes-in-santa fe
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): So sorry to hear about your step-brother. Give him an extra hug when you get there, and give yourself one, too. There are a lot of B-J’ers who have been through what you’re going through with a loved one, and we all send our good wishes.
BubbaDave
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
So sorry to hear that. Deepest sympathy, and don’t forget to take care of yourself while you’re helping take care of your mom.
Joseph Nobles
@askew: “I am more concerned that she has been campaigning for 2 weeks and has yet to actually do any interviews or meet with anyone that wasn’t pre-screened for her campaign.”
I’m going to assume you just don’t know. Take a gander at her Twitter feed. She’s met with plenty of unscreened people in both Iowa and New Hampshire. So you should not be speaking so categorically about which you know nothing.
Diana
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): so sorry. Let us know here what happens and what, if anything, that any of us can do.
Joseph Nobles
@Tree With Water:
Hillary Clinton on Free Trade and the TPP
Secretary Clinton has been in the public eye for decades. Her view on any issue can be gleaned, for goodness’s sake, if not outright known. Ascew has nailed my #2 pet peeve in the upcoming primary – people making claims about Clinton that are simply not true – but you’ve run bang on into #1.
Diana
@gene108: THIS. Also this proves the anti-vaxxers right, because a lot of opposition to the initial introduction of vaccines in the 18th century was religious in origin, and therefore 21st century anti-vaxxers are entitled to the same religious objections of the 18th.
And think of the Pandora’s box this opens: weren’t the kings in the absolute monarchies of the 18th century appointed by God? Do we have to go back to that? This could be amazing…..
LAC
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): it does, with a sibling. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about my brother. My prayers are with you and your family.
Exurban Mom
Mnemosyne, thinking of you and your family at this difficult time. Sending you strength. Reminding you, as others have, to take care of yourself, too. So very sorry.
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): So sorry Mnemosyne! Hugs and prayers for you and your family.
Aleta
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Thinking of you; I’m so sorry. If you can, I recommend eating some good protein, even in the mornings, and lots of salads if you like them. I don’t want to sound trivial, but… what helped me a lot (I was staying at a motel) was to buy a china cup at a grocery and every night or morning make a lot of tea in a canning jar. Waking up I would have it with lots of ice and some sugar. Helped me with that rough patch every morning and took the edge off the motel. Likewise I took some instant oatmeal, dry fruit, almonds — could eat that in the room night or day. The last foolish thing I can offer is to buy a *really* nice bar of soap — like lavender, rosemary/pine, or citrus–, so that you can have some moments to restore yourself whenever you take a shower. (I apologize if this is useless advice.) Take care, go slowly when it’s hard. I’ll be thinking of you.
Tree With Water
@Joseph Nobles: Permit me to rephrase, that you might better understand: All I said was that I don’t know what Hillary will do re. the pending trade pact. Do you? If so, please share.
AnotherBruce
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): When your family are your friends, it hurts like hell to watch them suffer, but just remember how blessed you are to have such good friends and family.
askew
@Joseph Nobles:
No she hasn’t. Media has covered that her events only had pre-screened people asking questions at them. In Iowa, she ignored questions from anyone who wasn’t pre-screened.
Joseph Nobles
@Tree With Water and @askew: Now that I’ve established to my own satisfaction that neither of you are worth the time, I bid you both good day.
xenos
@scav: you do not need to go back to the bible, just look at British history. Our marriage customs and laws have pagan origins, not Christian ones. The very system of church Canon law is based on pagan Roman law.
At least that is what the jesuits told me in law school.
Tree With Water
@Joseph Nobles: Bon voyage.
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m so sorry to hear that. Any time you need remote hugs from B-J, know that there are people here for you 24-7.
Hug your family hard, and hold hands if and when hugging might be too much.
Spend as much time with your brother and mother as you possibly can, it will be good for you for as long as you can remember those hugs. We all go through these hard times, and being together with your family for them is the best you can do.
Take care!
JR
Johannes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): So very sorry to hear this. Sympathy and prayers for you and yours.
Paul in KY
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Very sorry to hear this. My condolences to you & your family.
Paul in KY
@Mike in NC: Topsail is a beautiful beach. Very highly rated. Not too commercialized (I hear). I generally vacationed a little North of there at Emerald Isle. Xfered to Florida, as it was easier to get to & water was warmer. Sure had some fine times on NC seashore, though.
Biff Longbotham
Glen Beck was all over this comment on his radio show yesterday, spluttering about how this marks the end of religious freedom or such nonsense. He was definitely trying to make it into a ‘bitter clinger’ type of fauxtrage.