Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

This fight is for everything.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

People are weird.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Open Thread: Not All Is Gold That Glisters

Open Thread: Not All Is Gold That Glisters

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221Comments

  1. 1.

    SiubhanDuinne

    L O to the fuckin L!!

    Remind me again the name of Reince’s home planet? Because it sure as fuck isn’t Earth.

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    It’s hard to identify a more repulsive sack of slime than Chuckles the Toddler. Don Lemon, Jake Tapper, and Leslie Blitzer must envy him no end.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    If you want to see the real Donald Trump, you have to elect him. Guy doesn’t give it away for free.

  7. 7.

    geg6

    Yeah, that “pivot” was on full display on 60 Minutes tonight. My favorite exchange was when Leslie Stahl mentioned that you have to be humble to be an effective president and asked Trump if he could manage that. And Trump said there’s no one more humble than him. ROFLMAO!

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    I’m so old, I remember when Chuck Todd was actually good at reading and interpreting data.

    Wonder whether anyone’s ever asked him what it feels like being a living embodiment of the Peter Principle.

  10. 10.

    Misterpuff

    Drumpf bases all decisions on his Brand, not quite getting it that only 25% of the populace is impressed, but the ones that are all in.

    Trump – Gold Plated Populist.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I need to ask a question about men’s dress. I know nothing about different tie knots and number of suit coat buttons and all that, but I know what looks right to me and what doesn’t. Here’s what doesn’t look right (in that photo above): Mike Pence with his blue tie (nice), then a single-button jacket, then several inches of his formerly-nice blue tie peeping out like a terrified indigo rabbit.

    By contrast, Trump in the same photo looks very nice with his jacket unbuttoned and the tie allowed to hang as it will. But I have to say, I have often noticed that Donald’s tie hangs too long, well beneath his belt buckle.

    Gentlemen, or knowledgeable ladies, what are the basic rules here? I’ve never paid attention to the code, but I think I’d rather like to start.

  13. 13.

    WaterGirl

    I didn’t understand the references to the gold thrones in the pervious thread. Wow. And then reading geg6 with Trump bragging that there’s no one more humble than him.

    We are trapped in an Onion parody.

  15. 15.

    WaterGirl

    @dmsilev: If there’s a wikipedia page for the peter principle, someone should put up a photo of Chuck Todd next to the definition of the peter principle on the wikipedia page.

  17. 17.

    Anne Laurie

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Remind me again the name of Reince’s home planet?

    Not sure, but I think I finally figured out where his first name came from. His mother was German, and his birth name is Reinhold; if she called him Rein-sie as a little kid, he’d insist on dropping the feminizing -ie when he got to grade school.

  20. 20.

    Zinsky

    @SiubhanDuinne: Trump always has his neckties too long, probably to compensate for being a little short somewhere else, if you get my drift. By the way, you can almost see the stick up Mike Pence’s ass. Ventriloquism is amazing!

  21. 21.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: Pence must have been absent on the day all the other guys learned the smooth “unbutton your jacket as you are sitting down” move.

  24. 24.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SiubhanDuinne: Unbutton the jacket when seated. Tie should come to middle of belt buckle when standing. If a two button suit, close only the top button. If a three button, either the middle only or the top two (I prefer middle only). If a four button, either return it to the Edwardian Era or burn it.

  27. 27.

    Emma

    @SiubhanDuinne: The peeping rabbit tie happens when a man’s jacket has either only one button or he leaves the bottom one of two unbuttoned. It’s not a horrific faux pas but it does leave the watcher thinking that maybe the guy has gained weight and the jacket doesn’t fit properly.

    The Trump issue is different. The tie below the belt happens to men who have shorter torsos. Properly it should be tucked in the pants, if you have pret-a-porter ties. For Trump, who has enough money to have his ties hand-made, there’s no excuse.

  29. 29.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    What happens when we’re two months beyond the conventions and Trump still hasn’t stopped behaving like a spoiled, racist asshole? Are they still going to be telling us that he’s going to settle down and behave like a decent person any day now? How long is the press going to go along with this shit? I know that Republicans have to keep saying that’s he’s only days away from becoming fully human, but the press doesn’t have any real interest in painting him this way.

  30. 30.

    dmsilev

    Last year’s Big Convention Moment was Clint Eastwood debating with (and losing to) an empty chair. I have no doubt that this coming week will manage to top that, somehow, and it will be …interesting to see what happens. One thing I know for sure: Trump and what passes for his campaign infrastructure will not be up to the job of pre-screening and vetting the speeches of the random odds and ends that fill out the speaker list. We’re about to get a barely-filtered look at the modern right wing.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @khead:

    From The Gondoliers:

    Then one of us will be a queen
    And sit on a golden throne,
    With a crown instead of a hat on her head,
    And diamonds all her own!

    With a beautiful robe of gold and green,
    I’ve always understood —
    I wonder whether she’d wear a feather —
    I rather think she should!

    Oh, ’tis a glorious thing, I ween,
    To be a regular Royal queen,
    No half-and-half affair, I mean,
    No half-and-half affair,
    But a right-down, regular, regular, regular, regular Royal queen!!

  33. 33.

    dmsilev

    @khead:

    But holy $hit! It’s really gold chairs!

    It’s Trump. The chairs are probably painted a gold-ish yellow.

  34. 34.

    Iowa Old Lady

    On “This American Life” this morning, the theme was getting your money’s worth. One segment was about rich R donors trying to decide how to get their money’s worth during this year’s chaotic R primary. The reporter interviewed a Texan whose father was a billionaire. The millionaire son was a big Koch brother fan. (And btw, it was appalling to hear about a whole network of these guys working together to get their way)

    Anyway, when the guy being interviewed and his father couldn’t decide whether to support Trump, Trump flew down to meet them. Going in, they had a list of issues they wanted to grill him about. Turned out they asked none of their questions. Instead, Trump charmed them. He asked the father how he made his money, and said how great the son was. They came out of the meeting deciding to support Trump.

    It’s hard to believe that private Trump can be charming, but I guess to some people, he is.

  35. 35.

    Emma

    @khead: I think that for someone like her, who actually was with 60 Minutes when it meant something, it must be a punch to the kishkes every time she has to play the fool.

  37. 37.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Anne Laurie:
    Because ‘Rinse’ is going to get you less crap than ‘Reinhold’? Maybe this is why he became such an asshole.

  40. 40.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Unbutton the jacket when seated. Tie should come to middle of belt buckle when standing. If a two button suit, close only the top button. If a three button, either the middle only or the top two (I prefer middle only). If a four button, either return it to the Edwardian Era or burn it.

    Yeah!! THIS is the kind of rules-based stuff I’m looking for! Thanks, OO!

  43. 43.

    jl

    I cannot imagine that those two miserable shitheads have a chance to win the election. But they do, and a good one. I will retire for awhile and work on improving my imagination.

    I’ll keep reminding myself that Pence may be the dimmest wit to be nominated for national office in a very long time, even dimmer than the potatoe head Dan Quayle, and that may help just a little bit to sink their vile campaign.

  45. 45.

    RSA

    @SiubhanDuinne: Another rule, which is hard to tell on Trump and Pence given their postures while sitting, is that the shoulder seam should end where the shoulder does. If those indents below the seam on Trump’s and Pence’s left arms are still there when they’re standing, the shoulders are cut too broad.

  46. 46.

    dmsilev

    @Iowa Old Lady: “Support” him, maybe, but given how anemic his fundraising has been up until this month (and we don’t yet have the un-obfuscated numbers for June; those will come out next week as well), they probably weren’t doing much in material support.

  47. 47.

    Jay C

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    Well, his middle name is “Richard”, so maybe he just went with “Reince” because he didn’t want to be a “Dick”?

    (Didn’t work, though)

  51. 51.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Emma: Sorry, but in what universe should the end of your tie be tucked into your pants? A properly tied men’s tie should brush the top of the belt buckle, or the top of the waistband if you’re wearing braces. I suppose you could tuck it into your pants if you’re Urkel or something, but otherwise never.

    Trump’s neckties are unusually long. I don’t care to delve into his reasons for that.

  55. 55.

    Emma

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Anyway, when the guy being interviewed and his father couldn’t decide whether to support Trump, Trump flew down to meet them. Going in, they had a list of issues they wanted to grill him about. Turned out they asked none of their questions. Instead, Trump charmed them. He asked the father how he made his money, and said how great the son was. They came out of the meeting deciding to support Trump.

    During the last two elections I often wondered how it was that a group of people with more money than God could fail so often. This is the answer. Basically they’re chumps.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: ALJ is a standard attorney position with the state. One is an attorney assigned to the ALJ role. Thus one is subject to budget cuts.

  60. 60.

    Lizzy L

    @Iowa Old Lady: Warren Buffett is a known exception, and I am sure that there are others, but very very wealthy people — the truly filthy rich — like to be seduced, praised, flattered, especially when they are being asked for money. It’s just what you do. Trump knows this as well as anybody, he expects it when he’s the target, and I suspect that in his own fashion he’s good at it.

    People without money, he bullies. He’s good at that too.

  67. 67.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @SiubhanDuinne: Pence should have unbuttoned his jacket. Seeing a tie peeking out below a buttoned jacket is almost always distracting.

    But otherwise, it’s hard to make conclusions based on the way they look seated. E.g. Trump looks like he has flood pants.

    The shoulder pads on both jackets look a little too big to me. It’s curious that the sleeves on Pence’s shirt aren’t visible. I would hope that he’s not wearing a short-sleeve dress shirt – those went out of style in the ’60s, I think.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Emma:

    I have a memory that different knots can make the difference between a tie that’s too long or too short. I know there is Windsor and Half-Windsor and Four in Hand, although I have no notion which is which — but I understand some of them take up more fabric than others so you would use that knot if your ties normally hung too long, and use the knot that takes up little fabric if your ties regularly hang too short. I can’t tell by looking which knot is which, but I’m sure experts can, and I would like to learn.

  73. 73.

    Davis X. Machina

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    I would hope that he’s not wearing a short-sleeve dress shirt – those went out of style in the ’60s, I think.

    Not if you’re an assistant principal, they didn’t. They’re uniform.

  74. 74.

    Keith P.

    “Donald, this chair smells of fart.”
    “You love the smell. Take it in!”
    “Farts are what freedom smell like!”

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Emma:

    Gold foil rubbed on the bare wood. It comes off on your fingers if you touch it.

    So kind of like those LetraPress Helvetica signs we were talking about, except shiny.

  78. 78.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
    I could imagine Pence not having expensive tailored suits (although he could have done better, that looks like a Sears sale rack outfit) but Drumpf is a BEEEEElionaire & should have custom made suites & shirts. Those pants do not fit him at all. I can’t tell about the jacket because he is sitting so it might have risen but those shoulders should return to normal when he stands up or he should stop cheap-screwing his clothing budget.

    BTW – it is kind of fun picking on a male candidate for their looks and clothes, a commentary form generally reserved for female candidates.

  81. 81.

    Mike in NC

    Drumpf usually appears wearing a shiny red or light blue necktie that looks like some polyester piece of crap from Kmart. His suit jackets are two sizes too big to hide his girth and (some people speculate) a Kevlar vest.

  83. 83.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mike in NC:

    His suit jackets are two sizes too big to hide his girth and (some people speculate) a Kevlar vest.

    The first part could be handled by a decent tailor, and so, I suspect, could the second.

  84. 84.

    NotMax

    @Emma

    Even then, decidedly second string once she rose to network.

    CBS staff people such as Robert Trout on straight news or Charles Osgood on features could run rings around her, reporting-wise, without breaking a sweat.

  86. 86.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    Trump is a salesman. I worked in a big ticket item store for a few years and some of the best salespeople are total sleazeballs. My sister’s really good at picking out salespeople who are just flattering her and she’ll call them out on it a nice firm way. It always makes me laugh when I’m with her when she does that.

  88. 88.

    JWR

    Haven’t read all the comments yet, but wow, this 60 Minutes interview, (if not for the potential of a Trump/Pence administration), is Comedy Gold!

    ETA, okay, I’ve read several of the comments, and they’re even better than 60 Minutes! Thank all y’alls. ;-)

  89. 89.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @SiubhanDuinne: The Art of Manliness covers lots of this stuff.

    I usually use a “full Windsor” as I like the symmetic look. It takes a lot of fabric. One can usually adjust the excess length in the “back piece” to have the end of the outer part end up where you think it needs to be.

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who only wears a tie about once a year.)

  91. 91.

    jl

    @Schlemazel Khan: OK, a little body shaming is in order then. Trump looks like an obese sack of moldy rotting dough, even through his over-size baggy clothes, which I assume is designed to hide his true misshapen fatness. Remember that kitchen folklore states that you always have to watch out for the reddish-orange mold on cheese and bread, which is always dangerous and can kill you.

    Pence is trying to pass as not fat and out of shape. I think he pulls in his belly, but the massive moobs give his ‘situation’ away.

    Now, is there a way to figure out if either of them have ‘cankles’?

    Man, is this a disgusting pair of lousy slobs. Trump is such a tacky fake, it used to be funny before he made himself a threat to humanity. But he thinks it is the purist highest class. I want to see him politically destroyed during the campaign. He said once in an interview that he would probably go away and never be seen again in public if he lost badly. I hope we get a chance to see if he is lying about that like he lies about everything else.

  92. 92.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mai.naem.mobile: It’s funny. Those salespeople just turn me off. The people who can sell to me are the enthusiasts – car lovers, wine lovers, fellow skiers, etc.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    This thread is giving me anxiety about going out in public with clothes on. Don’t know how you ladies deal with it all the time.

  97. 97.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Baud:

    This thread is giving me anxiety about going out in public with clothes on.

    Going out without clothes on should solve that problem.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne

    There was a photo of Obama and Biden last week where people were saying they had obviously coordinated their ties so they were harmonious but not match-y. Trump and Pence should have done something similar, because that tie of Pence’s is freakin’ hideous.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    G can wear a four-button suit and look cool. You have to have just the right build, though. He looks awful in two-button suits.

  101. 101.

    trollhattan

    Jesus, rubbing out terrorists isn’t the only thing Trump admirers about Saddam, they also buy furniture at the same place.

    Hillary should do an ad from the iron throne. “Bring it, you bloated fuck.”

  102. 102.

    bluehill

    @SiubhanDuinne: Windsor knots are the fullest and most symmetrical. Four-in-hand is the thinnest and . While you could adjust the length of the tie using these different knots, the choice of knots is also influenced by the spread of the collar and the width of the face. Some guys will simply tuck the tail of the tie if it’s longer in their pants than the blade or will let it hang nonchalantly, reflecting what the Italians call sprezzatura.

  103. 103.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @jl:
    I remember reading a story about Drumpf in the NYTimes back in the late 80s/early 90s. There were several vignettes indicating how much the folks in the big apple loved the big asshole. The one that sticks with me is that the bridge workers would stop work when his yacht was passing under their bridge. The would, as a group, pee over the side of the bridge onto Mr. Drumpf’s boat. Nobody in NYC likes this guy.

  106. 106.

    Anne Laurie

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    Because ‘Rinse’ is going to get you less crap than ‘Reinhold’?

    Official RNC rule is “rhymes with pints”. So — Reintz.

    His middle name, per Wikipedia, is Richard. I guess even Reintz seemd better than Dick, in middle school!

  107. 107.

    gogol's wife

    @dmsilev:

    You should have heard him BS-ing the “breaking news” of the Turkish coup. It was pathetic. He and Brian Williams and Andrea Mitchell were on, and not one of them knew what the hell was going on, but only Brian Williams (the supposed fantasist) sounded like a real news person who was refusing to BS about it.

  109. 109.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Anne Laurie:
    He could pronounce it ‘Genophski’ for all I care, he will always be ‘Rinse’ to me. Although I could be persuaded to switch to ‘Reinsie’

  110. 110.

    jl

    @Baud: you can’t see the white stripe around Trump’s eyes in this pic.

    I’ve been searching the wiki to see if there is an orange raccoon, coati, ringtail, kinkajou or olingo, with a white banded stripe around its eyes, so we would have a short handy-dandy way to refer to The Trumpness Himself. But I haven’t found one yet.

  112. 112.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne: God help us all if Hillary chooses a woman as her running mate; we’d be in for several years of ‘their clothes are clashing; are they have a falling-out’ and similar.

  114. 114.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne: Aside from Deion Sanders, I’ve never seen anyone in pull off a four button suit, but I will not dispute you.

    ETA: Oh yeah, Cee-lo. In bright pink. Not many can pull that off.

  115. 115.

    dmsilev

    @Omnes Omnibus: She should get her Hollywood Liberal Elite(tm) supporters to put her on top of a dragon for her nomination acceptance speech next week. Or Voltron. I would also accept Voltron.

  116. 116.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They went out of style as soon as they were invented.

    You’ll never get the professional nerd class to give them up — those guys trail their wrists through stuff all the time, and they don’t see the point to having the cuffs on their discount-store shirts tailored to fit close.

  118. 118.

    Mnemosyne

    @dmsilev:

    I can’t remember the exact Miss Manners quote, but it was very close to:

    It is one of the staples of obsolescent gender humor for identically-dressed gentlemen to stand around chortling at the sight of two ladies wearing the same dress.

    I blame Beau Brummell, myself.

  120. 120.

    ? Martin

    @Lizzy L: I think Josh has it about right. People exist in either of two camps: dominated, or humiliated. There’s simply no in-between.

  124. 124.

    gogol's wife

    @jl:

    You must have seen that YouTube of him doing “Green Acres” with Megan Mullaly, right?

  125. 125.

    Felonius Monk

    Gee, what a pretty picture (not) of the Great Orange Scrotum Hair Fungus with his Pet Rock. Looks like they’re taking a shit together in the gold plated outhouse.

  130. 130.

    ? Martin

    Looks like United has suspended the WV legislator that called for Clinton to be killed.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    Stuart Rothenberg is fun to read:

    After new Post/ABC and NBC/WSJ polls, this one reinforces the idea that race is Clinton +4 to +8. Her’s to lose

    New Post/ABC and NBC/WSJ polls in sync. Trump not getting nearly enough whites to win. Only mid-July, but Trump has huge problems.

  132. 132.

    trollhattan

    @? Martin:

    Looks like United has suspended the WV legislator that called for Clinton to be killed.

    Can’t begin to parse that. Wuh?

  133. 133.

    maya

    @trollhattan: When I first saw those chairs I thought of Condi Rice’s photo ops with the late great Omar Gadhafi. Or anyone. She was always photoed in matching chairs with the dignitary of the day. What a wall of remembrances she must have.

  136. 136.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne: @Emma: If you are not in the fashion/entertainment industry, I still say burn the four button jacket. If you are there, think very carefully. Ever see Clooney, Pitt, Firth, or Hiddleston in one?

  137. 137.

    gogol's wife

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I thought it was a brilliant piece of characterization via costuming. It reminded me of engineers at the FAA I used to work with when I was working my way through college as a clerk-typist.

  141. 141.

    jl

    @gogol’s wife: No.Now I am gong to have to spend time searching for it on youtube. Damn you.

    @Kay: “Trump not getting nearly enough whites to win. ”

    I’ve read that Trump is losing badly with college educated whites. There is a reason why Trumps said he loves the poorly educated. Swindlers need some kind of advantage over their marks. Trump loves to bludgeon less educated people with brags about his success and genius, and that is one way he finagles an advantage he needs in order to con people.

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    You also have a lot of leeway in how long the thin end of the tie is (the part that hangs behind the wider front end). You can shorten or lengthen that to conversely lengthen or shorten the front end, so to speak.

  143. 143.

    Aleta

    The election is going to come down to the hair. Hillary has worked hard at it and her dos have evolved. As far as I’m concerned she has finally mastered the issue. The purpose of government is to improve the lives of the people, but Trump has not shown that he has workable answers. Trump has not demonstrated that he can break away from hair ideas that don’t work, whereas Hilary has.

  144. 144.

    mike in dc

    Well, if we get VP Castro or Perez or even Kaine, I hope the one thing they say in Spanish is “Donald Trump es un racista”.

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    C’mon, Clooney has been wearing the same tux for 20 years by his own admission. To a large extent, one needs to wear what’s flattering, not necessarily what’s in fashion. For men of a certain build, a fully buttoned three-button or four-button suit looks great, but it’s not for everyone.

  148. 148.

    Gin & Tonic

    @gogol’s wife:

    I thought it was a brilliant piece of characterization via costuming.

    Precisely. It surely wouldn’t work for OO, but it was perfect for Sipowicz. Reminded me of a guy I used to work with, an outstanding programmer, Hungarian, of course, who rocked not only the short-sleeved white dress shirt, but the 1″ tie with a paper clip as a tie clip. It’s not a look for everyone, but it was perfect on him.

  149. 149.

    NotMax

    Double-breasted is always dapper.

    And no question about which or how many buttons to fiddle with. All of them.

    (Last time wore a jacket and tie was 1989, and then under protest.)

  150. 150.

    dmsilev

    @trollhattan: A state rep in WV had called for Clinton to be tried and executed (hung, on the Washington Mall, if memory serves) because emails. His day job was with United Airlines, which like most big companies only tolerates bad publicity if they’re getting something tangible in return.

  151. 151.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Turned out they asked none of their questions. Instead, Trump charmed them. He asked the father how he made his money, and said how great the son was. They came out of the meeting deciding to support Trump.

    There was a book written a few years about about the history of the American confidence trickster, and how the great grift is bound up with the American narrative, from the snake-oil salesmen of the push westwards to Jay fucking Gatsby.

  152. 152.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They went out of style as soon as they were invented.

    Not for me. The ventilation is mostly shut off in the building when I’m working and the small unit in the office is often on the fritz, so it’s sweltering. And, since there’s no one here for 98% of my shift, I only need the dress shirt and tie for the few minutes when my boss arrives on Monday morning. I wear them the whole shift, because, hey, I’m autistic and I like to follow rules, but the fashion statement really isn’t important.

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne: A well-tailored dinner jacket never goes out of style. That is its point. All I can say is if you show up for a job interview wearing a four button suit and you are not interviewing for a fashion/entertainment job, you are done.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    For an interview, G would wear a 3-button, because it hits the right combination of flattering and fashionable, but on the rare occasions where we go out and dress up, he wears the 4-button at my request. It’s definitely a fashion choice.

    In my viewing of Google images, I must say once again that somehow Daveed Diggs can wear damn near anything and still look fantastic. However, with his athletic build, he wisely sticks with 2-button or double-breasted jackets.

  161. 161.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Short-sleeved shirts with a tie were a thing in the pre-air-conditioning South. I unashamedly did that in the ’70s as a newspaper reporter in a city with NOLA-level heat and humidity.

  162. 162.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @amk: How can they seriously try to put that over? I mean, shit, I know anything can happen, but, really, the odds are pretty high for a crippling loss for Trump. The whole point of screaming abut voter fraud is that the election has to be tight enough to make it plausible. I cannot for the life of me see how that’s going to happen.

  164. 164.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    A gold fucking throne. Seriously Trump? You’re running as a successor of George Washington, not George the Third.

  165. 165.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Steeplejack (phone): I will admit that I am an inveterate Yankee and that that may inform my views.

    ETA: I will roll up long sleeves to the elbow. Kennedy-esque with a loosened tie. No short sleeves and tie to the neck.

  167. 167.

    Cacti

    @Emma:

    I will agree that most men shouldn’t be caught dead wearing one. But there are a few ones that can get away with it.

    Generally speaking, more buttons favor the physiques of taller men. So, if you’re less than 6 ft, stick to 2 buttons.

    4 buttons are fine if you’re attending the NBA draft as a prospect. ;-)

  168. 168.

    jl

    Mark Twain sells a dog he doesn’t own, and can’t figure out why people are upset.

    Chapters from my Autobiography by Mark Twain – Chapter 25/25 (read by John Greenman)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hZZNTvxLs4
    (start at minute 28).

    I post this as a public service, since there will be many arguments of this form from the GOP during the campaign.

  169. 169.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Emma: And then there’s my 18 inch neck and even with some of the extra long ties, they still aren’t quite long enough. One of my favorite ties is like that.

  170. 170.

    Tripod

    @jl:

    Pence is cramming weight into a no longer big enough suit. It’s why he looks like a pinhead.

    His shoes are trashed. Would it kill him to have them polished, or pick up a pair at DSW?

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    @Emma:

    Remember the hideous outfits that Mrs. Romney used to wear on the campaign trail? Expensive =/= well-fitting or attractive.

    In fact, I think some rich people buy ugly but extremely expensive clothes to show that they’re so rich, they don’t have to look good, unlike us plebes.

  181. 181.

    eemom

    wrt short sleeved men’s dress shirts, those always remind me of one of my earliest law firm “mentors” back in the late 1980s. He was from Minnesota originally, but wore those shirts in the brutal DC summers. Not a style icon by any means, but he was a brilliant litigator who made a shitload of money and retired early to Scotland, so there’s that.

    OO’s attitude about those shirts makes me smile because it is just like eedad’s, who also views them as cringeworthy.

    For myself, I’ve always felt intensely sorry for men who I see wearing shirts and ties and even, ugh, JACKETS in the summer swelter. Women’s dress clothing demands no such torture. The inequity almost makes up for childbirth. ALMOST.

  183. 183.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: All of my ties are extra longs. And I use the 1/2 windsor for the ones that are still a wee bit too short. Most of them though are good for a full windsor without issue. I don’t wear bow ties. My biggest issue is that about 1/2 my sport coats no longer fit right across the back and shoulders and chest because of my workout regimen for the past two years. For a lot of things its not a big deal. I can work in shirtsleeves and a tie (and trousers of course). But if I know I have to have the coat on, them I’m limited right now.

  184. 184.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Cacti:

    Generally speaking, more buttons favor the physiques of taller men. So, if you’re less than 6 ft, stick to 2 buttons.

    The cut matters as well. A boxy cut and 3 buttons on someone shorter accentuates a kind of squat squareness, but if you’ve got something with a bit of fitting, then you can get away with 3 buttons more easily.

    (But, y’know, I have three-piece suits and wear them three-piece whenever I have to wear a suit, which isn’t that often these days.)

  187. 187.

    Emma

    @Mnemosyne: This is true. But I think Mrs. Romney’s mentally a part of what I call the country upper crust. Expensive, dowdy clothes. When they try to go outside their comfort zones, they bungle it.

  189. 189.

    dww44

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Then why are all the polls of late so much closer? I’d like to believe you are right, but all the Republicans I know, while not talking so much about Trump, will most likely end up voting for him. Then when you add all the motorcyclists who will be/are in Cleveland to keep order outside the convention, there you go…. a nail biter of an election. Makes no sense but, then, a great many voters don’t make any sense.

  194. 194.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne: BS. The whole point of bespoke is to make you look good. The tailor does his best to cover one’s physical flaws.

  196. 196.

    Mnemosyne

    @dww44:

    When you look at the internals of the recent polls, the pollsters are making some weird assumptions, like that 85 percent of the electorate will be white, which hasn’t been true since the 1980s. I’m not sure if this is deliberate manipulation or a reflection of the fact that polls are still largely done by telephone, which means respondents are going to skew white and older.

    My challenge is still this: find me the minority voter group that votes for Trump. As we saw in 2008 and 2012, a presidential candidate can no longer win with a majority of the white vote — s/he also needs a large number of minority voters. W had Hispanic voters. Who does Trump have?

  198. 198.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    As we have seen with plastic surgery, people without a sense of style are not the best judges of what looks good on them. I would bet you that Trump’s suits are made to his exact specifications, and his tailors shrug their shoulders and follow his orders.

    Trump thinks his suits look fabulous. The fact that no one else does is immaterial to him.

  201. 201.

    scav

    @Omnes Omnibus: I can entirely see him not bothering with all the time it takes to get the correct necessary fitting for a proper bespoke suit and just relying on the brand name for sizzle.

  202. 202.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m not sure how you can argue that Trump doesn’t think he looks great, but okay. His tailors are probably doing their best, but after a certain point, you have to please your client if you want him to keep buying bespoke suits from you.

  205. 205.

    PatrickG

    Tonight is a triumph for feminism: we’re finally applying fashion judgement to men in order to demean them.

    I’m honestly not sure whether to append a sarcasm tag, because I’ve enjoyed this thread so much. :)

  207. 207.

    cckids

    @eemom:

    I’ve always felt intensely sorry for men who I see wearing shirts and ties and even, ugh, JACKETS in the summer swelter. Women’s dress clothing demands no such torture. The inequity almost makes up for childbirth. ALMOST.

    Um, NO. It doesn’t even make up for heels.

  208. 208.

    Suzanne

    I think one of the worst things about Trump is his wretched taste. All that money, and he always looks bad. All those buildings he developed, and yet no significant architecture.

    If he wanted to sit in a chair for royalty, he should sit in one of these.

  209. 209.

    seaboogie

    @cckids:

    Um, NO. It doesn’t even make up for heels.

    Agreed. When men are wearing Spanx, then maybe we can start a dialogue….

  212. 212.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Roll up the sleeves. It isn’t difficult. The professional nerd class is doing it pour épater le bourgeois.

    Believe me, I am, if not quite a professional nerd myself, very much immersed in the professional nerd class. And they are only secondarily wearing short-sleeved dress shirts to shock; many of them just don’t see the point to paying for cuffs that will need the extra step of being rolled out of the way. (And besides, some of them fail at that step. We are not, outside of strict professional confines, a dextrous tribe.)

    A frugal tribe, also. (Again: except for necessities like professional equipment & the latest in hi-tech gadgetry.) The demographics have perhaps reverted towards the mean a bit since my youth, but the dedicated short-sleeved-shirt wearers have historically bunched towards ectomorphs & endomorphs. Short men, tall very thin men, and fat men have to pay a premium for “odd” neck width/sleeve length shirts — if they can find them at all — or else have their shirts tailored. One needs at least three or four dress shirts if one’s company is so retrograde as to require them, and for the price of four premium dress shirts one can instead purchase the latest gaming upgrade…

  213. 213.

    Calming Influence

    @chopper: “Zen koan? Seriously, there’s gonna be one hand clapping like you wouldn’t believe. Trust me on this.”

  214. 214.

    Anne Laurie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The whole point of bespoke is to make you look good. The tailor does his best to cover one’s physical flaws.

    But one has to chose the right tailor — and the right suit company as well. Every men’s high-end fashion house has a certain “cut” that’s part of the house look, and a knowledgeable man (or a lucky one) sticks with the house that aims to dress men of his body type. (It’s not as obvious as the women’s designers who flatly refuse to make Oscar-night dresses for actresses who don’t fit their style, but it’s there.) And even then, a man needs to trust his tailor to make subtle-but-important decisions for him as to what’s flattering and what isn’t. Brioni or not (and really, I don’t think “Italian cut” suits are ever a wise choice for aging American men who don’t have ‘athletic’ builds) can you see Donald Trump listening to some hireling tell him that giant shoulder pads can only do so much to disguise a sagging gut? Or that getting a flattering fit requires he, Trump, to stand around like a dummy while some immigrant drone fondles all his pits, not just once but multiple times?

    And then there’s the whole “paying for service” thing… if Trump pays his tailoring invoices promptly and in full, it would surprise me.

    I suspect he’s the guy who phones the shop five minutes before closing time, demands a suit to match the one he’s just seen on some celebrity, says he’s too busy to waste time on fittings so they might as well use the file measurements from five years ago, tells them to use a fabric that hasn’t been produced in ten years, and swears he’ll sue if it isn’t delivered in time for some ludicrous deadline. Delivering the finished product will be handed off to the newbie — or the unfireable incompetent — who’ll be expected to make final alterations on a moving target, not because Trump can’t stand still but to demonstrate how importantly busy Big Man Trump is. But since the company will be lucky to get 50% of the agreed-upon price after multiple invoices… and Trump obviously has no idea what makes him look good, as evidenced by what he does with his hair…

  215. 215.

    Anne Laurie

    @Suzanne: I doubt I’ve ever had my butt on a true Barcelona model, but I can say with certainty that chairs of that depth and rear inclination tend to be deeply uncomfortable for less-than-fit people and/or those of us with short legs. Donald Trump falls in both those categories. It’d cut off the circulation at the back of his knees, and he’d struggle to get out of it even if it had arms to push off from.

  216. 216.

    Montarvillois

    I believe the chair Trump has parked his keister on is from his Apprentice show, and demonstrates his taste in furniture runs akin to that of Sadam Hussain’s.

  218. 218.

    gogol's wife

    Thread’s dead too, but I just have to say how wondrous it is that on BJ a political thread can turn so easily into an esoteric discussion of men’s sartorial issues.

  219. 219.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Roll up the sleeves. It isn’t difficult.

    Badly-rolled sleeves (& they are almost always badly rolled) look a fuck of a lot worse than a neat half-sleeve or even a short sleeve.

    My theory is that fashion mavens dump on short sleeves because they want to hide the needle tracks left over from their misspent youth.

  221. 221.

    Kenneth Kohl

    @Anne Laurie: His Mom could have “familiarized” it perhaps with “Reinchen” (mein lieber Reinchen?). Regardless, he is otherworldly…

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