Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

The revolution will be supervised.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

So many bastards, so little time.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

We still have time to mess this up!

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

White supremacy is terrorism.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Saudi Cleric Abd al Azziz Moussa on Jihad & Shahadat

Saudi Cleric Abd al Azziz Moussa on Jihad & Shahadat

by | 45 Comments

This post is in: , , , ,

MEMRI (h/t: Malcolm Nance) has posted an interview, with close caption translation into English, with Saudi Arabian cleric Sheikh Abd al Azziz Moussa. He definitively declares the use of suicide attacks (shahadat) as forbidden actions (haram) and makes it clear that attacks on peaceful non-Muslims are also forbidden.

ETA: In comments, Cervantes asked an important question: why is this noteworthy? Especially as other Muslim clerics and authorities have often and repeatedly made similar points. Its noteworthy because we’ve got a Saudi cleric doing it definitively. Given that ISIL’s doctrine of radical tawheed (the unitary understanding of the Deity) is a violent, extremist offshoot of Saudi theology rooted in Wahhabist doctrinal concepts, its important. Its one thing for a non-muwaheedun* (adherent of the radical unity of the Deity) cleric, such as the head of al Azhar to declare these things haram. That’s important for a lot of non-Muwaheedum Muslims (the vast majority of Sunni Muslims), but its not important for those who have accepted/adopted the radicalized notions of tawheed promoted by ISIL. Having a Saudi cleric do condemn these actions is important. Especially as he would not do so unless he had the approval of the Saudi religious authorities.

* All Muslims accept the concept of tawheed/the unity of the Deity, however, this concept was elevated by Sheikh Abd al Wahhab and holds a central place within the theology and doctrine that he taught and that his descendants and their followers espouse. In and of itself this elevation of tawheed does not have to be a negative or destructive thing. However, it forms the basis for part of Bin Laden’s theology/doctrine and is the central underlying theological/doctrinal concept for ISIL.

Reader Interactions

45Comments

  1. 1.

    cervantes

    I’m not really sure why this is supposed to be noteworthy. It’s what every Islamic cleric except for a tiny lunatic fringe would say.

    It wouldn’t be news to find a Christian pastor who doesn’t think gay people should be stoned to death or that there should be Christian dominion over the earth. Why would you make a post about that?

  3. 3.

    Miss Bianca

    @cervantes: Ah…perhaps because, given the current political climate, this is a point that can’t be emphasized enough?

    But do, please, tell us what *you* consider post-worthy. Or, on second thought, don’t.

  4. 4.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cervantes: 1) Its only noteworthy because we’re constantly bombarded with: “Muslim officials never denounce Islamic terrorism” and 2) because, in this case, we’ve got a Saudi cleric doing it definitively. Given that ISIL’s doctrine of radical tawheed (the unitary understanding of the Deity) is a violent, extremist version of Saudi theology rooted in the same Wahhabist doctrinal concepts, its important. Its one thing for a non muwaheedun (adherent of the radical unity of the Deity) cleric, such as the head of al Azhar to declare these things haram. That’s important for a lot of non-Muwaheedum Muslims (the vast majority of Sunni Muslims), but its not important for those who have accepted/adopted the radical notions of tawheed. Having a Saudi cleric do that is, indeed, important. Especially as he would not do so unless it had the approval of the Saudi religious authorities.

  5. 5.

    cervantes

    @Miss Bianca: Posting this makes it seem as though it’s important and this guy is somehow exceptional. That’s counterproductive.

    Why aren’t you interested in what I would consider post-worthy? I’m a pretty savvy guy.

  6. 6.

    Mike J

    While what the cleric says is true, MEMRI has a pretty bad rep. They’re the type of org that wants to make this seem like a rare occurrence.

  9. 9.

    mr_gravity

    Thanks for the additional clarity Adam. It’s pretty easy to write off large chunks of humanity because of the views of fringe elements which tend to be reinforced by media narratives. I appreciate any attempts to humanize the people that we are constantly being told are the enemy. It’s nice to think there may be voices of reason on the other side.

  13. 13.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mike J: Yep. I’d never heard of them until after 9/11, when they worked overtime to demonize and vilify Muslims and were widely cited by wingnut blogs.

  15. 15.

    Frank Wilhoit

    “…attacks on peaceful non-Muslims are also forbidden….”

    But (said every terrorist, ever) if you’re doing something that I think you ought not to be doing, how the Hell is that peaceful?

  17. 17.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mike J: In this case all MEMRI did was grab the vid from the Arabic language news outlet that did the interview and added the English language translation close captioning. Since the interview actually happened, we know that this isn’t fabricated. Since the translation appears – and full disclosure my Arabic is very rusty – accurate to what he’s saying, then we can have confidence that MEMRI didn’t play around with it. So even though MEMRI’s track record isn’t perfect, we can have confidence in this bit of information.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Frank Wilhoit: That’s rooted in an older portion of Islam. I can never remember if its a hadith (part of the Sunna) or actually a passage from the Quran, but there is an old statement of the Prophet (which is why I tend to think its Sunna) that states: “Those that do not attack the Muslims, that make peace with the Muslims, are Muslims.” In this statement, Prophet Muhammed is providing blanket coverage, for lack of a better term, to those that are willing to live peacefully with Muslims. It is not dissimilar to the biblical concepts in Judaism about how to treat the ger tov (literally the good stranger, figuratively the stranger that resides among the Israelites), the resident stranger.

  25. 25.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: Of course, Google has been so polluted by people screaming about terrorism and the like that it’s impossible to quickly search for that passage. At least I haven’t found the magic incantation yet.

    Thanks for posting this. It’s important and deserves wide visibility.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: I first saw it in grad school in Scotland. One of my professors had it printed out in Arabic and English and on his wall as a poster. At one time I had the actual citation, but lost it years ago. And, as you say, now its nearly impossible to find it.

  27. 27.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve done some more searching. Your comment above is going to be the top hit everywhere for that quote pretty soon. It’s already the top hit at DogPile.com

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    As others have noted, relying on MEMRI is a questionable practice. Curious, too, that this individual cleric happens the bear the same name as the first Muslim governor of Al-Andalus (conquered parts of Iberian peninsula).

  29. 29.

    scottinnj

    Not meant to be a snarky question – what does it mean this gentleman in the video is a “Saudi Cleric”? How important is he? For example to use my Catholic upbringing – is he the the equivalent of a parish priest, a monsignor, minor bishop, a major bishop, a Cardinal or the equivalent of a Cardinal in the Roman Curia. The more senior the more this would seem to be more of an official statement.

  31. 31.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Here is this Saudi cleric, denouncing these sorts of terrorist attacks that no Christianist/Dominionist/forced Birther will ever do when their followers shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado.

    Surprise, surprise, surprise!

  32. 32.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Adam L Silverman: Reminds me how the sin of Sodom and Gommorah had nothing to do with sex, but had to do with being inhospitable to strangers, who, in that case, were on a sting operation from Jehovah.

  35. 35.

    Adam L Silverman

    @scottinnj: Sunni Islam, including the variant practiced in Saudi Arabia, doesn’t work that way. Its not centralized or hierarchical. Though, in Saudi Arabia, there is a Ministry of Islamic Affairs.
    http://www.moia.gov.sa/eng/Menu/Pages/About.aspx

    Also, in Saudi Arabia, the clerics and religious scholars descended from Muhammed Ibn Abd al Wahhab, sometimes referred to as the Ahl al Sheikh (the people of the sheikh), are often/usually the most influential of the clerics.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris T.: Yes and no. There is no, final, authority for all Sunni Muslims the way there is for Catholics. Or for Twelver Shi’a. But it is significant that a Saudi cleric came out and made such a clear statement, as well as forcefully insulting those who provide Islamic authorization for such actions.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Ah, but it was the same named Abd al-Aziz Moussa (Musa) who ruled and signed the Treaty of Tudmir, which taxed non-Muslims who did not convert (and was later assassinated when unsubstantiated rumors of his conversion to Catholicism were spread). Point is that the full name carries significant baggage within both Arab and Muslim cultural memory.

  40. 40.

    scottinnj

    @Adam L Silverman: Got it, this is not speaking ex cathedra but it is definitely something you dont hear about very often. Frankly if I were the Saudi’s I’d worry that some day washington may realize the Turks/Persians/Israeli’s are the only three legs of the balance of power politics the US needs to balance leaving little for the Saudis. yes there is oil but the Saudi’s otherwise don’t carry alot of weight. So may be getting time to tone it down to keep washington onside.Trump for all his faults may be the one to say to the Saudi’s we know who was behind 9-11.

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

    @scottinnj: The Saudis, via (no longer quite so) secret agreement with the Nixon Administration, have been propping up the US as needed since the early 1970s.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-05-30/the-untold-story-behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-u-s-debt-secret

    Failure was not an option.

    It was July 1974. A steady predawn drizzle had given way to overcast skies when William Simon, newly appointed U.S. Treasury secretary, and his deputy, Gerry Parsky, stepped onto an 8 a.m. flight from Andrews Air Force Base. On board, the mood was tense. That year, the oil crisis had hit home. An embargo by OPEC’s Arab nations—payback for U.S. military aid to the Israelis during the Yom Kippur War—quadrupled oil prices. Inflation soared, the stock market crashed, and the U.S. economy was in a tailspin.

    Officially, Simon’s two-week trip was billed as a tour of economic diplomacy across Europe and the Middle East, full of the customary meet-and-greets and evening banquets. But the real mission, kept in strict confidence within President Richard Nixon’s inner circle, would take place during a four-day layover in the coastal city of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

    The goal: neutralize crude oil as an economic weapon and find a way to persuade a hostile kingdom to finance America’s widening deficit with its newfound petrodollar wealth. And according to Parsky, Nixon made clear there was simply no coming back empty-handed. Failure would not only jeopardize America’s financial health but could also give the Soviet Union an opening to make further inroads into the Arab world.

    It “wasn’t a question of whether it could be done or it couldn’t be done,” said Parsky, 73, one of the few officials with Simon during the Saudi talks.

    …

    Much more at the link. And one of those truth is stranger than fiction good reads.

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: Yep. None of this stuff is straightforward. Every one of these multilateral and bilateral connections is intertwined with other concerns and interests and needs.

  45. 45.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @NotMax: One of the secret reasons for the Great Mesopotamian Adventure was Saddam making noises about switching to the Euro for his payments.

Comments are closed.