Here’s a screenshot of a fascinating exchange between a trio of ammosexuals, one of whom is an NRA board member, on a gun nut message board. The source of the screen shot is Shannon Watts (founder of gun law reform group “Moms Demand Action”), who posted it on Twitter here.
Here’s what it says, in case you’re having trouble making out the text on the image:
Re: Can it be? We may lose more gun rights under Trump than Obama?
Richbirdhunter: Once you give a dog a bone, he wants another bone.
RicoTX: Why give up anything? What’s next? 20 or 30 round mags? Are some of us willing to give those up too? Because I’m not…and won’t.
[NRA board member] Charles Cotton: I’m so sick of buzz phrases. No one is “giving up” anything, but the reality is we could well see bump-stocks “taken away” because the votes are probably there. Wake up people and see what’s happening!!!! Bloomberg and Hollywood are pouring money into this effort and the media is helping to the fullest extent. We’ve never had this level of opposition before, not ever. It’s a campaign of lies and distortion, but it’s very well funded, and they are playing on the sympathy factor of kids getting killed.
If you really want to make a difference, then start recruiting NRA members every single day. The NRA better be 15 million strong soon, or this is only going to get worse.
Chas.
This is how bullies sound when they’re running scared, and credit goes to the Parkland high school kids and others who’ve said enough is enough. Public opinion is turning against these gun-humping extremists, and they know it.
We now know that Wayne LaPierre had a lunch meeting with Trump at Mara-Go-Fuck-Yourself this weekend. Bet ol’ Wayne sounded as panicky as Cotton does above. And we now know why Trump went to such lengths yesterday to emphasize that the NRA is “on our side” when addressing the governor’s group.
What we see here, fellow citizens, is how a seemingly insurmountable hold on power starts to crumble. But they aren’t going to quit, so we can’t either. Change isn’t possible…until it happens. Let’s keep the pressure on!
reader at work just now not at usual nym
For people who want to support the Mar 24 march but who can’t go to DC that weekend, what are some top alternatives?
Corner Stone
I personally loved that part. Exposes to the core what these people are.
rikyrah
These kids don’t think that they should have to live like this.
And, I don’t blame them.
They are the ones we’ve been waiting for.
Just pick up the armor.
We see you.
Bobby Thomson
@Corner Stone: as someone commented, Eric Killmonger is a more sympathetic villain and he wants to subjugate the world.
schrodingers_cat
After freedumbs and the glorious second amendment rights defending against tyranny, another talking point thrown out there is the rights of hunters. Do we have statistics on how many people actually hunt with guns and how much of that is subsistence hunting. What % of the population is this?
rikyrah
“Progressives” show their muscle—it ain’t pretty
The hot news from the CA Democratic Convention is that Dianne Feinstein did not get endorsed.
Many attribute this to disrespectful supporters of her competitor, State Senator and President pro-tem of the CA Senate, Kevin de Leon. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Last year at the full convention, leadership of the CA Democratic Party was hotly contested. One of the long time loyalists, Eric Bauman, was chosen in a fairly narrow victory over Kimberley Ellis who was a Clinton supporter in the election but shifted to become a Sanders group ally within the California party. The fight for the chair dragged on for weeks with Ellis challenging the credentials of every single person voting, accusing the vote of being rigged, and demanding several recounts over various issues.
This was just the start of a division that may destroy progressive politics in the most progressive state for decades. There is no focus among the progressives on standing up to the extremist federal administration or the GOP congressional members abetting it. California is home to Devin Nunes, whose demographics make him vulnerable to a Democratic challenger, and to Kevin McCarthy, majority leader who probably isn’t but whose work on behalf of stalling the Mueller investigation and promoting the worst of the GOP polices needs to be called out strongly.
The nominating process at the Democratic Convention was not even about Dianne Feinstein as it turns out. It was about the faux progressive block flexing its muscle not to nominate anyone but to block everyone. Attorney General Xavier Becerra, a champion of civil rights, was not nominated nor was his challenger, Dave Jones. No contestant for governor got nominated. Even de Leon wasn’t nominated.
The reason was the Bernie bloc of delegates had enough power to prevent the majority votes needed, so no Democrat got the nomination. The self-styled progressives served one function – they’re spoilers. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Corner Stone
Trump is following his tried and true method for every issue – whoever gets in his head last is the one he goes with. NRA stooge guy told Trump that if he waffles at all on guns he will lose WI, PA, MI and a couple other states. I think at this point Trump is going to get defensive about the gun issue, get his back up because he feels insulted and disrespected, and torpedo any and all efforts. He doesn’t give a shit about kids or children dying.
joel hanes
It’s a campaign of lies and distortion
A perfect characterization of the NRA’s public statements since 1977.
It’s always projection. Always.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: BS benefited from the Russian attack on our democracy. He is going to be a problem this November. He needs to be marginalized.
charluckles
Flat out admitting that they will make zero concessions and will accept zero restrictions. And yet the media insists on portraying these people as rational actors who need to be negotiated with? Infuriating.
daryljfontaine
Tripling your membership‘s a bold move, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off.
D
Bobby Thomson
@rikyrah: I don’t mind the party not nominating anyone in a primary. Go ahead and let the voters decide. I do mind this bullshit “rigged” narrative for which we can thank Wilmer and his Russian friends.
Jay S
@rikyrah:
And the NRA is trying to fix that. Of course it’s unclear about the “live” or the “like this” part (or both).
Corner Stone
I wish one of them could articulate why they need 30rd mags. If it doesn’t come down to essentially “black/brown people rioting in my neighborhood and trying to defile my lily-white wife-daughter”, I will be shocked.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: It may have been a marriage of convenience at the beginning but Rs are not going to bail on T, neither is he going to in any way counter Republican dogma.
charluckles
@schrodingers_cat:
Absolute horsecockery. I come from a family that hunts. There is absolutely no reason hunting can’t coexist with even the most severe restrictions on guns. You can hunt in both Japan and the UK after all.
Corner Stone
Paul Fishman is twisting back in forth in his chair during this interview and I am about to get seasick. Hasn’t he done this enough to know better?
The Moar You Know
Hilarious. Will not happen. They’re maxed out and probably on the downhill side of their membership size, and that will only get worse for them.
Plus, they now have some serious competition from GOA, who make the NRA look sane and reasonable.
They’ve fucked themselves into a corner but good. Embrace sanity, lose the existing base of suckers en masse and die quickly. Embrace the lunatic right harder, no more new members, slowly die. Exactly what the California GOP did, come to think of it.
Yutsano
@schrodingers_cat:
He IS Republican dogma now. That happened at CPAC. The Republicans are Dolt45, and Dolt45 is Republican policy. There is no more daylight anymore.
p.a.
Multi-pronged attack. Take away their toys whenever possible, while pushing for insurance and liability coverage to make the humpers responsible for their humping. This was posted linked within the past few days.
Butch
@schrodingers_cat: The last time I was able to find any statistics it said that hunters are around 14 to 15 percent of the population, and my personal observation is that it depends on where you live (I would say the proportion is very high here in the Upper Peninsula, where I live). But you know, the one guy’s remark about not giving up his “29 or 30 round mags” just had me holding my head in my hands. That’s really what’s important to you, dude?
MisterForkbeard
This reminds me of an ammosexual college friend of mine, who is dumping on Dianne Feinstein for the following twitter quote:
“A handgun [wound] is simply a stabbing with a bullet. It goes in like a nail.” With the high-velocity rounds of the AR-15, “it’s as if you shot somebody with a Coke can.” http://rol.st/2Esd8Hp #BanAssaultWeapons”
The thing is, Feinstein is… A: Correct! The increased muzzle velocity from a rifle makes the wounds worse even if the bullet is the same caliber, and B) Quoting a Navy Trauma Surgeon with 24 years of experience. He’s refusing to engage and just saying “she doesn’t know anything about guns and this proves it, and can never speak about guns again.” Bonus points: He also wants to arm teachers in schools.
LAO
I really don’t care that there are people that feel this way — what I care about and what is ultimately the most disturbing — is that our elected officials adopt gun positions that appease these motherfuckers. What a sick, sick joke.
Hungry Joe
For years I said that the gun issue is suicide for progressives, that we have to suck it up and absorb the deaths for another generation — maybe two — because opposition to the NRA and its band of lunatics 1) goes nowhere, and 2) costs us elsewhere.
Paradigm shift: It now may be a winning issue. Things really can change that fast. Ask me 12 years ago when we’d have a black president, or legal marijuana, or gay marriage, and my answer would have been — for each — “twenty-five to fifty years.” Yet here we are … and here we go!
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: Good point. Magazine size should definitely be a focus because large magazines have been a factor in some of the worst gun atrocities, and gun-humpers can’t come up with a sane-sounding reason to justify their availability. “Oh, you have to stop and reload more frequently while shooting paper targets? Boo-fucking-hoo. Next?”
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@schrodingers_cat: In 2020 I will vote for any Democrat that takes a rhetorical meat clever to that old fool.
Corner Stone
@The Moar You Know: Agreed it will not happen. Unless Sergei and Ivan and 12M of their bot friends start signing up and paying annual fees. I personally think their numbers have been wildly inflated for several years now. They lost a lot of GHWB type R’s about the time he resigned them, and they mainly are not coming back. I think they gained some new members during WJC presidency but not enough to get to 5M.
I’d like to know what the membership numbers were during the scariest times in modern history 2009 – 2017.
The Moar You Know
@LAO: It is the most disturbing aspect of all this. I live in an outlier state (CA) but am from one that isn’t (AL) and if THAT many people gave a shit about guns there would have to be major firearms outlets everywhere to meet the demand. There aren’t. These people are not only a minority but a VERY small minority, and I am heartily sick of them running the discourse on a subject (public safety) which they have demonstrably demonstrated nothing but the rankest ignorance about.
ETA: would also add that I’m a gun owner, spend some time in gun stores, and none of them ever have been “full”.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
In defense of hunters, those who shoot for food do not use the same guns and ammo as the ammosexual fetishists do. So ban the semi-autos.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Oh, I want a whole lot more articulated. Like, why do you need a semi-automatic rifle for hunting? Why do you feel your right to own these weapons supersedes my right to be safe from the likes of you? Why do you refuse to be held accountable when you accidentally shoot someone or shoot the wrong person? And lots more.
This is the kind of interview I want to hear. No snappy, Mad Ave talking points. No dodging and weaving to avoid the truth. If the NRA truly believes they’re right, they should be able to answer directly and without any hesitation all of the questions asked of them.
TenguPhule
@charluckles:
When the choices are do nothing and confiscation, inevitably the public is gonna come down on confiscation.
debbie
@Yutsano:
Trump is the Snake he said we are.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat:
Which I think is absolutely crazy. Pence would be just as much a rubber stamp as Trump is and would at least be semi-competent and sane. They’re playing with the lives of billions here.
Miss Bianca
@reader at work just now not at usual nym: I am guessing that other cities besides DC are having them. I know there’s one in Denver, for example.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
Be shocked, their reasoning comes down to “I will be a warlord and rape the women I find attractive at gunpoint in the brave new lawless world of total anarchy and zombies.”
Matt McIrvin
@Hungry Joe: I think that a lot of gradual change in public opinion can happen without it having any apparent political effect, so it seems like nothing is happening, and it can be very hard to tell how close to the threshold for change you are.
In the case of gun control, it looks to me like public opinion was actually gradually hardening against it for decades until Sandy Hook. That was the critical turning point. But it seemed like nothing happened.
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
A quick Google search says there are around 17 million hunter in the US. Most of those aren’t subsistence hunters in the sense that the couldn’t get meat without hunting, but most of them do eat what they kill.
That said, the kind of gun restrictions people are talking about would have a negligible impact on hunters. It’s true that hunters simply don’t need detachable magazine, semi-auto rifles like the ones used in most mass shootings these days. Traditional hunting weapons use manually operated loading: lever- or bolt-action rifles and pump- or break-action shotguns. Hunters want to take down their prey with as few shots as possible, so there’s simply no need for a weapon designed to spray bullets as fast as possible.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
I would quibble over the last two features since after all, he joined Trump of his own free will which would seem to disprove both.
Mary G
@reader at work just now not at usual nym: You can search for a march in your area here.
I found three within 40 miles of where I live, plus one for my specific area TBD.
ETA: link is on the word “here” if you can’t see it.
Moms Demand Action keeps posting pictures of their meetings – where they usually got 20, they are getting 200, even in dark red country.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Which is exactly what the remaining rump of the Republican Party does in the CA legislature, or did until there was a voter initiative that forced them to vote for a budget or not get paid.
Funny how all of these “progressive” groups just happen to use the same obstructionist tactics as Republicans, innit? ?
I still think a large number of vocal “progressives” are actually Ron Paul fans who’ve given up on trying to reform the Republicans and are now trying the same tactics on the Democrats.
patrick II
@Corner Stone:
Yes, we are just being played if we have sympathy for kids being killed. What puppets we are to feel horrified at the thought of bright young children’s life ending in fear and pain. But if we are just puppets who are only being manipulated into thinking pain and suffering and death are good reasons to limit guns, there must be another, real reason that our puppeteers want the weapons of war out of the hand of the gun nuts hands. What do the gun lovers think the real motivation of our puppeteers is?
Ninedragonspot
@rikyrah: My wake-up call with the so-called progressive movement in CA came with the s***-fit a number of Chelsea Manning supporters threw in 2013 to get her named a Grand Marshal in the June Pride Parade. At a time when we were all anxiously awaiting the decision in US vs Windsor, the spat seemed designed to sour the jubilation many of us were anticipating. As it happened, the legalization of gay marriage was such a momentous event that most everybody forgot about the tantrums thrown by Manning supporters.
Now here we are in 2018 and the inexperienced Manning is trying to primary a Democratic Senator in MD while periodically cavorting wth right wingers.
I used to label myself a “progressive”. Now I no longer assume a “progressive” politician, activist, or group always has the best interests of the left, and the country, at heart.
Steeplejack
Krugthulu has a good column today that relates to this:
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
Sounds about as realistic as those Purge movies. As soon as you realize that most people won’t tolerate that without putting up some opposition first,that whole fantasy falls apart faster than a wet paper bag.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
How hard would it be for Putin and friends to launder more money their way under 403b rules?
Corner Stone
@debbie:
The only reason that I can currently recall that held any reasonable amount of defense was that disabled people who wanted to hunt could more practically use a semi-auto rifle. Now, I am sure that was a bowtie on the belt holding the kimono closed, but it did make a certain sense at the time.
dmsilev
@Butch: How many people need a 30 round magazine to hunt deer or whatever? Follow-up question: If you actually need a 30 round magazine to hunt deer, doesn’t that mean you’re absolute crap as a hunter?
bemused
@charluckles:
I agree. I live in hunting country with seasons to hunt deer, duck, grouse, pheasant, wild turkey and a few more small game. Trapping is a thing here too. A rifle that just sprays ammo is useless for these activities but not mowing down humans.
My parents generation grew up in the Depression era and I often think how horrified that generation would be about our gun culture now. I don’t think they could have even imagined this even in their worst nightmare.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?: You have to remember that many of these same people somehow believe that when civilization is destroyed, their hidden caches of food and arms will see them through into a new Golden Age of feudalism.
piratedan
because our God given right to own and shoot automatic weapons supersedes your right to get an education in a safe place, good thing that we have a firm ethical and moral foundation from which to operate from….
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
That’s pretty hard to pin down. I went looking at the PA stats because I know we have a lot of hunters here and it really depends on what type of game and which season (some game have more than one season, such as turkeys). They break it down as to how many licenses were issued for each of the game and seasons. Here’s the 2016 numbers:
Turkey (spring) – 193,804
Turkey (fall) – 125,211
Rabbit – 62,378
Grouse – 40,094
Squirrel – 100,482
Pheasant – 74,953
Woodcock – 4,402
Dove – 16,218
Hare – 3,014
Woodchuck – 62,628
Crow – 13,844
Porcupine – 5,011
Deer – 1,299,372
Now these numbers don’t include hunters on shooting preserves and do not separate out bow hunters from those using guns. Plus, I know for a fact that there is much overlap among bow hunters and those using firearms and people who hunt various game. I know people who only go deer hunting and only use bows. But I know some who try to get something every single hunting season. I also know people who hunt for the challenge and people who hunt for the meat. So it’s hard to pin it down.
TenguPhule
@dmsilev:
Zero. If you can’t hit the deer by shot two at worst, you shouldn’t be hunting at all. You should be practicing at the range.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
I know it’s in excruciatingly poor taste to say
bit swear to g*d that’s how I feel about all this shit.
bemused
@piratedan:
As Emma Gonzalez said to this, “All I hear is mine, mine, mine, mine.”
p.a.
@Corner Stone: That was also the rationale for bump stocks: letting the disabled more effectively pew pew pew.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
Apparently the only legitimate reason was for Hog Hunting as pest control in Florida.
Well, its Florida.
Roger Moore
@MisterForkbeard:
Which, of course, is complete bullshit. Dianne Feinstein has first-hand experience with gunshot wounds; she was the one who found the bodies of George Moscone and Harvey Milk. I have some disagreements with my state’s senior Senator, but I will never for a moment question her commitment to gun control. It’s a very personal issue for her.
Villago Delenda Est
The NRA is a terrorist organization. Treat it like Daesh.
No mercy.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@bemused: They would probably be horrified by a lot of developments since around 1980.
Starfish
There is a school walk out in Fort Collins, CO here [Facebook].
bemused
@geg6:
Minnesota also has a muzzleloader deer season.
MisterForkbeard
@Corner Stone: There are some cases (when hunting boar, for example) that you want a larger caliber weapon with some ability to rapid fire. The idea being that a small gun won’t bring the boar down at all, and it takes more than one large bullet to kill it – and if you MISS or can’t kill it fast enough, the boar might kill you.
However, “semi-automatic” refers not only to the firing (one trigger, one shot), but also to the loading mechanism. There are non-semi auto guns that are suitable for boar hunting.
Matt McIrvin
@Hungry Joe: Also, I think handguns are going to be a tougher nut to crack than assault weapons, and handguns are actually a bigger part of the overall gun problem. The number of people who believe that a handgun is a good thing to have for self-defense is actually still increasing.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Unsurprisingly, those who would stand up for disabled using assault rifles for hunting are the same people who complain when their taxes go to improving access at street corners, etc. I’m not buying it.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
And think their gold will be of any value as opposed to things like food, ammo, luxuries like cigarettes, etc.
Starfish
@reader at work just now not at usual nym: There are other walks and marches. If you know how voter registration works in your state and can get the kids who are walking out of local schools information on how to register and how early they can pre-register, do this.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
The fools don’t realize that toilet paper rolls will be the currency of choice.
Miss Bianca
@schrodingers_cat: Depends who you talk to, and what statistics they are referring to. Here is one source:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/227422/number-of-hunters-usa/
which suggests that for the last few years, the number of hunters as a percentage of the population is between 15 and 20%.
Personally, I am not intrested in splitting hairs about what type of hunting is cool with you – subsistence as opposed to, say, trophy or sport hunting – and therefore which types of guns and ammo ought to be allowed or banned. Just going to say that no hunter I know of goes out with a semi-auto AR15. And that *all* hunters are valuable allies if you happen to value little things like access to public lands. Most of them are conservationists by necessity, and one of the great joys of my life last year was seeing craven Jason Chaffetz’s attempts to “defederalize” public lands get completely steam-rolled by pissed-off hunters and anglers. Like it or not, RWNJs will listen to hunters telling them to back off with that shit, when they won’t listen to liberals and environmentalists they can dismiss as tree-huggers.
So me, I’m inclined to go after bigger game than hunters in the great gun control wars.
bemused
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
One of my parents lived until late 90’s but there are still some around in their 90’s and older. My mother-in-law is going on 95 and she is horrified. She’s also a lifelong Dem who thinks trump is a disaster and dumb as a fencepost.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
By contrast, there are about twice as many knitters and crocheters in the US — 38 million. And yet somehow we’re still not considered a politically powerful bloc even after the Women’s March and the Pussyhat Project.
MisterForkbeard
@Roger Moore: Right. His opinion is that since she doesn’t know the technical details behind guns (there’s a couple of quotes from her in the past where she got some relatively basic terminology wrong in a debatably cringe-worthy way) that completely obviates her lived experience or the opinions of the voters that she represents.
No Drought No More
The hopes of Ms. Hicks to escape conviction and incarceration may yet pan out. If she has any sense, of course, she’s already spilled her guts to Mueller Inc*.
But even if she hasn’t, even if she remains an active member of an ongoing conspiracy against the United States, she’s still probably in a congressional restroom now, using the break the committee is taking to puke her guts out. At this point in time, no one except an absolute moron could possibly be so blinded by Donald Trump as to willfully ignore the risk she’s running of being imprisoned for his crimes. And for what? For Trump’s only cause: his own worthless ass. Let’s hope Hicks is not the moron she appears to be. That said, I remain mercilessly unsympathetic to the whole rotten lot- up to and including every congressional republican, no exceptions- and I always will… “Hang ‘Em High”.
(tip o’ the hat to Albert Anastasia)
TenguPhule
@Miss Bianca:
To be fair, the hunters are very good shots at long range.
The Ancient Randonneur
Boo fucking hoo. My thougths and prayers are with Mr Cotton and the rest of the gun idolators.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
When you can spike a knitting needle into a GOP eye at 2000 yards, they’ll start taking you seriously.
LAO
@Mnemosyne: I think you guys need to organize better. I like the idea of an all powerful knitters&crocheters of America organization. Not witting enough to come up with an acronym for you all though,
Chip Daniels
It was only a year or so ago I started pounding the drum that we need to challege the very existence of a “right” to own a gun in a civilized society, in part because I wanted to stretch the bounds of discourse to the left.
Now I am seeing more and more people actually talking this up, as an actual thing.
Why does such a “right” need to exist?
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: As I said earlier, online semiautomatic-rifle fans include people who will swear up and down that they hunt with an AR15. It appears that not all hunters agree with the suitability.
TenguPhule
@No Drought No More:
I think we’ve found the fatal flaw in your conclusion.
TenguPhule
@Matt McIrvin:
They’re either lying or they’re fuckwads who don’t eat their kill.
Fuck em.
Tom Levenson
As I wandered around the web to see how many Americans hunt (16.9 million last year was the number I found– or between 5 and 6 % of the population), I came across this gem of a comment on an article about hunting deer on small suburban tracts:
“Neighborhoods with children and pets become very sensitive very quickly to high powered rifles…”
Ya think?
Corner Stone
@Miss Bianca:
Oh, don’t start thinking what has been done there was not seen.
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
This is the same tack I’ve been taking. Usually followed by, “If a bolt-action rifle was good enough for my dad, it should be good enough for you.”
I mean, I get that it’s fun to shoot off 30 rounds in a few seconds, but there are a lot of fun things we don’t let people do, like drive Formula One cars on the freeway.
TenguPhule
@Chip Daniels:
Bastard misinterpretation of the Second Amendment by the Supreme Court.
Next question?
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
That’s because they’re icky women, silly. They have cooties and it’s not as if they really matter.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Let them underestimate our power.They won’t be able to ignore it if that power unleashes an electoral earth quake that shakes their foundations in 2018.
Archon
@Matt McIrvin:
Fully licensed and bonded handguns with everything else, semi-auto or auto banned?
I could live with that and I’m about as anti-gun as they come.
rikyrah
Corker’s not running for re-election.
Final say.
Stan
@MisterForkbeard:
I’m having trouble following your meaning here.
Starfish
@Corner Stone: If people got a life-time membership long ago, do they really track when those people die?
realbtl
I understand the love/fascination with ridiculously powerful and complex machinery. I’ve got a bike waiting for Spring that will do 0-60 in a touch over 3 seconds and 0-100 in the mid-sixes (that’s mph). And this is the more sedate “older riders” version. So I get it. Just be fucking honest and we can talk. For example:
My bike is registered and easily identifiable by the State who also keep an eye if I do stupid things with it;
Insurance is required and easily checked. I guarantee you that 19 yo me would pay a shit ton more than 69 yo me.
Hiding behind the 2nd A just tells me you want to be able to intimidate people.
bemused
@Matt McIrvin:
Evidently they aren’t actually loading their freezers with venison if they are hunting deer with those rifles. Can’t imagine there would be much left of the deer to save.
Corner Stone
@p.a.: I have never heard an argument for pro-bump stocks of any variety.
Mnemosyne
@MisterForkbeard:
Hey, seems fair enough to me. Hunting big game has its risks, and maybe hunters will be more careful if a few of them get killed and eaten by giant hogs.
TenguPhule
@Stan:
Bullets are loaded for firing automatically with every trigger pull, but not at the rate of an automatic weapon.
So it fires as fast as the finger can squeeze.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Sorry, no. You’re not going to win allies that way. Florida has to deal with them (the hogs) as pest control.
Corner Stone
@MisterForkbeard: I have only ever used a bolt action (rifle) for hunting but I also never set out with the intent of wiping out a field full of something either.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I don’t have a problem with hunters. I have a problem with “hunters” who’ve never so much as taken a walk in the woods, and I suspect real hunters do as well.
Actual hunters are more likely to belong to groups like Ducks Unlimited than the NRA these days.
Corner Stone
@debbie: I am also sure it was a convenient figleaf that was cynically used. But knowing a few people who it could have benefited, I gave it some consideration at the time.
Adria McDowell
@dmsilev: People could also just hunt with bow and arrow (deer, anyway). But that takes more skill, patience, and practice.
Miss Bianca
@Matt McIrvin: Going by personal experience, here. Anecdatum, if you will. And as I believe Adam (among others) has pointed out, people do use semi-auto AR15s on wild hogs, which are ferocious predators *and* pest animals in a lot of southern states and have open hunting seasons. I can buy that you might want one for them, because they can and will kill you if they charge – but I also hold with the belief that for almost anything else, if you can’t use a bolt-action gun to bring it down, then you’re not a hunter – you’re cos-playing.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Quibble: the big change was not the law docking their pay if the budget was late; it was allowing the budget to be passed by a simple majority rather than 2/3.
debbie
@rikyrah:
At least until he changes his mind again.
rikyrah
Was reading a Twitter thread over at TPV..
I didn’t know that Flynn was messed up Cambridge Analytica…..
Well..well…well……
Lee
They have heard that repealing the 2nd is starting to get talked about and they are terrified.
Good!
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Fair enough.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Chip Daniels:
I was real disappointed with my parents last night. They’re not even gun nuts and the decades of NRA propaganda, along with “both sides” bullshit, really worked their magic. My mom brought up Isreal and the fact that there’s never been a school shooting there and my father basically said the issue is divisive and is causing a bigger divide among Americans. Of course banning guns was out of the question.
To be fair to them, they don’t have time to follow this stuff as close as I have, but it’s frustrating to hear the same half-baked arguments over and over.
And on top of that, the local news was reporting on a meeting between concerned parents and a school’s administrators. Of course someone brought up the idea of veterans coming to patrol the school as well as arming teachers. Adding another resource officer was also suggested. Checking backpacks, random searches of lockers, metal detectors. No mention of gun control. All of those solutions will do is make life miserable for students. I’m glad I graduated already.
MuckJagger
My brother-in-law — who I consider to be an honorable man — is a bow hunter, and he’s very adept at it. He recently told my niece that he would be willing to give up his guns for “the greater good.”
There’s something going on here. Don’t know whether it’s enough, but maybe some of the sane ones are saying “we’ve gone a bit too far in this direction.”
geg6
@Miss Bianca:
Agreed. Most of the serious hunters I know don’t belong to the NRA, don’t have semi-autos or want them and are extremely responsible about the environment. They hate the gunhumpers almost as much I do because they know they give them a bad name.
aimai
@Matt McIrvin: Sure, but you could take care of a lot of the damage of handguns by making it illegal to carry them outside the home–thus limiting them to defensive uses and the accidental shooting of children inside the home, or suicide of the owner or his/her relatives.
Corner Stone
ZEGS is going to kill or lard up poison pills into any bill that touches guns. He just said so today, although not using that phrase.
Elizabelle
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?: You should write a letter to the editor, and close with your last line.
Someone has to help look out for the kids’ actual interests (and lives).
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Untrue. Granted, the one’s shooting up the schools were Palestinians.
Also, Israel has really strict gun control.
Matt McIrvin
@Stan: I’m not sure which guns he’s referring to, but it might be double-barreled rifles and shotguns, which give you two pre-loaded shots.
I gather revolvers aren’t considered semiautomatic; there have been such things as revolving rifles, but they’re not common today.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: People who kill giant hogs down on the South Carolina or Georgiacoast, for example, might be killing them because they’re eating endangered sea turtle eggs. I’m sorry, what was your point again about all boar hunters being yee-hawing he-men who deserve to get killed and eaten by hogs?
Mike J
@TenguPhule:
Ban high velocity weapons while you’re at it. No hunter wants a foot wide hole where the bullet came out of their game.
Semi autos make it possible to shoot more people. High velocity makes sure they die instead of being injured.
debbie
Oh, boy. The worst of both worlds.
geg6
@No Drought No More:
Fuck Hope Hicks. I hope she suffers every day for the rest of her life. Disgusting traitor to her country and constitution.
aimai
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?: Are they so stupid that they don’t grasp that ordinary people can’t just buy guns in Israel and that certainly children can’t? Everyone is armed means that everyone is fully accountable for their weapon and weapon training–teenagers are not armed outside the notion of a “well regulated militia.”
Stan
Full auto weapons have been subject to a federal ban since, IIRC, the 1930s. it is possible to get one and fire it, but, its very heavily regulated.
I grew up very pro-gun, but, yeah. “Manually-operated weapons only” makes a lot of sense to me. It would have almost no effect on hunters, since they pride themselves on taking game a single shot. So most hunters already use manually-operated weapons.
An across-the-board ban on all semiautomatic weapons is simple. That makes it politically easier to accomplish. Nothing complex for our silly elected officials to understand.
It’s enforceable – again, it’s simple, and it’s obvious to even a lightly-trained police officer which weapons are semi-auto and which aren’t.
It avoids a lot of the pseudo-technical mumbo-jumbo that gun fetishists can get into.
It avoids the nonsensical, superficial appearance-based laws we have in some states now that make a mockery of gun control.
It is valid from a technical point of view. Semi-autos really are far more capable of causing mass death and have few legitimate justifications.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
Then send out the state Fish & Game employees to do it. Oh, right, Florida decided to lay them all off, and now they’re whining that they have a hog control problem that can only be fixed by letting any random asshole have an AR-15.
Sorry, I have very little sympathy for people who want big game hunting to be easy and safe. If you want to hunt apex predators like hogs or bears or mountain lions, part of the risk you take is that the animal is bigger and stronger than you are and could kill you first. That is the circle of life, my friend. Sometimes you eat the hog, and sometimes the hog eats you.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
Technically its not a felony if you run him over as long as you make sure to stop and offer assistance.
Elizabelle
@MuckJagger: “The greater good.”
Your BIL understands what the cretins in the excerpt above (and especially Mr. Cotton) do not get.
We need to shame these people. And they are on the ropes.
rikyrah
This is what John Kelly had no problem with when he was at DHS…Remember?
Yet, another reason why John Kelly ain’t shyt.
THE CHILD IS NOT UNACCOMPANIED.
SHE WAS TAKEN FROM HER MOTHER!!!!
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
And then the first child gets eaten by a feral hog and the shit hits the fan.
I’m perfectly fine with restricting the heavier stuff to government licensed specialists. But your “sometimes the hog eats you.” isn’t coming off well. Just saying.
TenguPhule
@aimai:
And everyone who is armed is either security, military or police.
trnc
Fla Gooper Randy Fine was interviewed by Steve Inskeep on NPR yesterday, and one of the nuggets that came out of it was something along the lines of, “We aren’t going to ban assault weapons because that won’t prevent a mass shooting,” followed by discussion of a Fine-supported bill that will not prevent mass shootings.
Stan
@Mike J:
That’s not really quite right but no need to get sidetracked here. The main thing IMO is using this moment to ban all non-manually-operated weapons.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: I agree. Wild hogs is a job for Florida wildlife management. If they do need AR15s, maybe they can contract with some hunters — and loan them the guns. Fairfax County contracts with bowhunters, possibly from rural areas, to take out excess deer in its public lands.
No one needs AR15s. Ban them, do a major buyback program, and prohibit their sale or inheritance. They do not belong here.
(Now, do not get me started on Burmese pythons. They don’t belong here either, and I’d be fine with AR 15s or whatever taking them out. But not privately held AR 15s.) #Mammal lives matter!
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
If the state of Florida wants to deputize hunters for hog control and loan them a semi-automatic rifle to do it, great.
But letting anyone wander into a gun store and claim that he needs that AR-15 and hundreds of rounds of ammo for “hunting,” as Cruz did? Nope. If it’s for population control, it needs to be supervised by Fish & Game.
TenguPhule
@Mike J:
This too. Ain’t no Constitutional restriction on how many restrictions we can have on ammunition.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@aimai:
Not stupid, just read something about it without researching deeper.
When I said the only thing that would have stopped the Florida shooter would have been gun control, my dad said he would have got a car and tried to run down students as they were exiting the school. I told him getting hit by car was probably more survivable than getting ventilated by an AR-15, which is specifically designed to inflict maximum damage on a person’s internal organs
joel hanes
@Stan:
I’d keep semi-auto (bird hunters have a plausible case).
I’d counter with “no gun that accepts removable magazines in civilian hands”.
scott (the other one)
Here’s a pulled straight from my posterior bit of genius I just thought up this moment: if we can have sanctuary cities, how’s about we suggest they have sanctuary states? So if, say, California and Massachusetts want to impose what would seem to the NRA horrifically draconian gun control measures, they in turn can have all of, say, Wyoming and, I dunno, both Dakotas, where there are absolutely no restrictions—you want a flamethrower? Groovy. Grenade-launcher? Have at it. Fully automatic weapons? Have fun at the bar, dear! We’ll even offer a moving stipend to anyone who already lives there and wants to leave for someplace sane.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
You say that now. But when the Killer robots are unleashed on the scaly hordes, what then? //
Stan
@TenguPhule:
That’s not quite right. Semi-autos such as an AR-15 cycle at precisely the same rate as their fully automatic cousin, the M16. The mechanism is the same. The *only* difference is that the trigger must be pulled for each shot.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
I think I replied that Israel has a different gun culture than we do and other nations don’t have the school shooting problems we do.
TenguPhule
@joel hanes:
Not for semi-autos.
Shotguns are good enough.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Ninedragonspot:
Seconded
Damned at Random
Spousal unit is an NRA life member – since before he met me. He hunts upland game birds and bear (actually, he doesn’t “hunt” bear, he just wants to get the one who raids our trash every few years).
Anyhow, I’ve been waiting for the panicked fund-raising letter that always follows these shootings, but it hasn’t shown up yet. Should be a doozy. I suppose I’ll write SHAME on it and send it back – that will make me feel good and cost them pennies and pennies
trollhattan
From Onion subsidiary PatriotHole:
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: btw, some of those boar hunters, like the ones in the article I cited, are out there with long knives, not AR-15s. Does that sound risky enough for you?
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: I’m OK with carving out narrow, heavily-controlled exceptions from a blanket ban, if somebody can make a case. What I don’t buy is people bringing up these exceptional cases as a way to throw up their hands and say nothing can or should be done.
geg6
@MisterForkbeard:
My BIL and his friends go boar hunting every year (and yes, they eat what they kill and it’s delicious). None of them use a semiautomatic. And they kill at least one every year. You don’t need that kind of gun to boar hunt. People have been doing it for centuries without them.
TenguPhule
@scott (the other one):
One word. Chicago.
/sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
trollhattan
@Mike J:
Can I toss .50 cal anything onto the fire? Ain’t a soul on the planet who has a use for one other than when engaged in a shootin’ war.
Matt McIrvin
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?: Switzerland is the other one they always bring up. Of course, Switzerland actually has a “well-regulated militia”, guns are omnipresent but also tightly controlled, and controls on militia rifles and ammo got significantly stronger after their one big mass shooting.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Ask your dad how the guy was planning on squeezing his car into those classrooms or up the stairs.
Chip Daniels
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
I find it interesting and telling that the same people who fret about the loss of liberty in gun registration, are enthusiastic about instituting draconian TSA style security measures in every public place.
No liberty but the liberty of the gun.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
Dude, I live in a city where we co-exist with coyotes, mountain lions, and bears. No child has been attacked by any of the above since the 1980s, though a lot of people have lost small pets.
Again: I’m not opposed to pest control. Deputize hunters and send them out to collect a bounty if it’s that big a problem.
Clearly, though, the current process of giving random assholes high-powered semi-automatic rifles and hoping that maybe a few of them might decide to go hog hunting is not working.
rikyrah
He’s sleeping with the fishes.
Man who told Papadopoulos that Russia had dirt on Hillary has vanished — leaving his fiancee and child behind
27 FEB 2018 AT 12:57 ET
Joseph Mifsud, the professor who allegedly told former Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos that Russia had obtained leaked emails related to Hillary Clinton, has completely vanished — and even his fiancee can’t find him. His biography disappeared from one university where he taught and he quit his job at another university. His email and cell phones went dead. And politicians, colleagues and journalists can’t find him.
BuzzFeed News reporter Alberto Nardelli this month traveled to Ukraine in search of Mifsud, who has not been seen since being caught up in special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
While in Kiev, Nardelli encountered a 31-year-old woman named Anna, who claims that Mifsud is the father of her newborn child — and who says she has not seen him for months.
Chip Daniels
@Corner Stone:
But think of the CHILDREN!!
Oh, wait, that’s only for bathrooms.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: well, showing a hunter’s license for your game, and your hunter safety certification, is also a thing.
I’m not arguing that just anyone needs access to an AR15 and scads of ammo.I”m not even arguing that all hunters need access to such weapons. I’m just a little sick of hunter bashing.
I get it – I get the attitude. I used to live in the city and look down on hunters and hunting as well. Let’s just say that living where I live now, I have grown ashamed of having harbored that attitude.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
He meant the maniac would have tried running down people as they were probably leaving or entering the building, outside.
joel hanes
@TenguPhule:
*sigh*
Not all semi-automatic weapons are rifles or pistols.
Semi-automatic shotguns are a thing, and have been since about the 1930s.
Most actual duck hunters use them; they’re less common for pheasants because they tend to be heavy.
Browning makes some fine ones.
They typically hold about six shells, and do not have a removable magazine.
If you’re using them to hunt waterfowl, a Federal law says the magazine must be plugged
to hold no more than two shells, with a third chambered.
Hoodie
@Miss Bianca: AR-15s are not large caliber, some pig hunters use AR10s, which look like AR-15s but use .308 rounds. Still, there are plenty of good large caliber guns, including shotguns, that are just as or more effective for this purpose. AR-15s are generally designed to use high velocity, smaller caliber rounds that produce god awful exit wounds, which sucks for hunting anything you intend to eat, but is dandy for mass shootings. There is no kind of normal hunting for which there aren’t bolt or lever action rifles that are perfectly adequate for the job.
schrodingers_cat
Hunting is privilege not a right, and should be regulated. From responses to my initial comment, hunters form a minuscule part of the citizenry. Hunting cannot be the reason given for having unlimited supply of killing machines with detachable magazines. If you can’t hunt without that then don’t hunt.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
And Adam lives in a State where a small child was attacked and eaten by an alligator at Disney World.
We’re in agreement about what we want done, but the way you’re going about it is rubbing other people wrong. And this is me telling you this, for what its worth.
geg6
@TenguPhule:
Hmmm, that’s kind of how the boar hunters I know put it. They would never use a semi. They pride themselves on being skilled hunters who don’t need that shit.
Aleta
The number of people that we perceive is so effective on humans. NRA is probably paying Russians and trolls to manipulate attendance at their pathetic rallies and incite gun sites.
They claim they don’t buy politicians w/direct donations, but regardless they buy the intimidation of Congress. I remember the heat of their call/fax campaigns after Sandy Hook. The numbers of calls as perceived by Congress, which were said to determine the abandonment of NRA legislation, might have been faked too.
Btw, when I looked at NRA youth programs (which offer money to all sorts of youth groups who join them and pay them for increasing n*a membership), I noticed that they enlist those youth groups in their intense drives to fax/call/letters to Congress.
trnc
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Certainly possible, but I don’t think a person who wants to shoot up a school or other place is necessarily just going to look down the line at the next available weapon. Guns make some people think they’re demigods. Their only real function is to kill or maim (or train how to do so). Every other thing I can think of that can be easily obtained and used as a weapon (apart from highly regulated military weapons, explosives, etc) has a different primary purpose.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
So his solution is to ban streets? //
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
Hunting is privilege not a right, and should be regulated.
And it is. Heavily. Has been for 75 years.
LAO
@TenguPhule: When people cite Chicago, does anyone factor in the permissible guns laws of Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky or Indiana? If I were Illinois I’d build a fence.
ETA: I meant a wall. A big beautiful Trump sized wall.
Corner Stone
@Miss Bianca:
Sounds suicidal. I walked into a field one bright day and realized I was in the middle of a rutting area for boar. I only had my 20ga. And I was scared to death until I got clear.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Uh, what I believe most of us are trying to tell you is that we’re not arguing with you, we’re pointing out that actual hunters don’t use the same guns or ammo as the ammo-sexuals. There is no conflict here.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
Sure, works for me. As Matt McIrvin says just below you, I don’t really have a problem with the hunting, I have a problem with people claiming they need an AR-15 just in case they someday decide they might want to go hunting.
If it’s absolutely vital that hog hunters have an AR-15 because that’s the only gun that will work, why are we letting civilians do something that dangerous in the name of pest control? Shouldn’t we be taking additional measures to control the population rather than relying on random hunters?
Gravenstone
@Matt McIrvin: Oh, they may well hunt with their AR type weapons. What that tells us is that they don’t value what they’re doing and have no intention of having useable carcasses left from the animals they actually manage to kill.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Chip Daniels:
There was a book I think, that dealt with something like this, that was inspired by Columbine. I didn’t read it and I believe the story was presented as apart of some kind of book fair at my school. The part that most struck me about it, and is relevant today, is that the fictional school instituted all of those safeguards and all that effort did was make all of the students move away.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
How many times has Trump been told explicitly, “No mister president, you cannot order ___ killed, even though Russia does.” My guess: >10
TenguPhule
@LAO:
Actually I was referring to how the guns leak from lesser regulated areas into Chicago, a highly regulated area. So the experiment has already been performed and we’ve seen the results.
Regulations have to be tight across the board, because its only as good as the weakest link.
Miss Bianca
@schrodingers_cat: I keep hoping that maybe some people here will at some point acknowledge that most actual *hunters* are NOT using these weapons, and wouldn’t argue that they needed them – that, in fact, people who DO claim they “need them for hunting” are not hunters so much as cosplay camo dudes who want to go out into the woods and shoot up a bunch of shit. In fact, most actual hunters would probably cheer a ban on certain guns and ammo – they’re tired of feeling afraid of these freaks.
Aleta
@Mnemosyne: I wonder how Australia’s program for gun control handled hunters. Also, did farmers who kill pests keep rifles or what?
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Privatization and the wonders of the free market. //
Brachiator
This part amazes me.
How dare those kids inconvenience gun fanatics by, you know, dying.
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
You do not need an AR-15 to hunt boar. Anyone who says so is full of shit. As mentioned above, my BIL and his friends have gone boar hunting every year for many years. None of them have semis.
Miss Bianca
@Corner Stone: Hey, *I* wouldn’t do it that way. These guys do have hounds, which I’d want too, but I would definitely want a gun to go after boar!
charluckles
@Miss Bianca:
Just going to point out that the main hog hunting protagonists in your article are doing it with spears. No guns needed, let alone an AR-15.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I have a hunter safety certification. I grew up with guns and hunting because my dad was a duck hunter. I prefer not to do it myself, but I am familiar with it.
As I said above, if a bolt-action rifle and a shotgun were good enough for my dad, they should be good enough for modern hunters. The actual hunters I’ve known take pride in their marksmanship and would never dream of spraying 30 bullets into the woods to try and get a deer, or even a bear. Only assholes who want to pretend to be hunters do shit like that.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@trnc:
That’s my take on it too. Cars can be turned into weapons but guns are easier to use inside buildings. Same thing with knives. I can outrun and outmanuver someone with a knife or sword. I can’t outrun bullets.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
NRA: We must not think of the Children! //
rikyrah
Lisa Marie Presley joins list of celebrities who’ve lost nearly everything
USA TODAY NETWORK
Ashley May, USA TODAY
Published 2:23 p.m. ET Feb. 27, 2018
Lisa Marie Presley is joining the ranks of celebrities who’ve lost millions.
Elvis Presley’s only child claims her $100 million fortune is down to $14,000 because her former business manager acted in his own best interests. A lawsuit recently filed against Lisa Marie Presley says she was informed about how her money was being spent.
Either way, poor money management has left Presley without her celebrity fortune.
Aleta
@Miss Bianca: It has been mentioned, though not every thread where it comes up.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: Poor, poor Mifsoud. We hardly knew him.
geg6
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve been making that point the whole thread. Even for boar hunting, they are not necessary.
Litlebritdifrnt
@charluckles: As I have said before my Uncle was an avid hunter. His restaurant (owned and operated by him and my Aunty Milly) used to have his famous “Poacher’s Pot” on the menu, venison, rabbit, pheasant or partridge (whatever was in season) all cooked in a rich red wine sauce. They were famous for it cause Uncle Tommy caught the game himself. After Dunblane (as I have said before) he was no longer allowed to keep his guns at the restaurant (which was also their home) he had to keep them at a licensed gun club (he was a member anyway). It didn’t bother him one iota. He would just drive there and check out his gun when he wanted to go hunting and check it back it when he was done. Like as was said above, anyone who needs an AR15 to kill a deer needs to get another hobby, like knitting.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
I honestly have no idea what his solution was. I was more disgusted with his notion that the issue was “divisive” and the unspoken recommendation that we should respect the gun nuts and just drop it.
ruemara
So those awful kids ran out to be killed just to ruin their honest, clean gun humping fun.
When you’re too depraved, callous & horrible for me to believe, you are really something.
TenguPhule
@geg6:
That would be Adam Silverman you’re slinging the accusation at.
My understanding is that Florida’s use isn’t for food, but pest control.
Frankly, I’m rather appalled at the waste of meat.
MJS
@Mnemosyne: Exactly. The eradication of pests, especially if it requires assault weapons, should be a function of the state, not a function of “gee, let’s see if we can get the local citizens to take care of this problem, and we’ll let them have any type of weapon they deem necessary to do it.” Where I live, when a bear wanders into a neighborhood, the Game Commission is called to handle the problem, not MAGA-hatted drool producers.
TenguPhule
@ruemara:
And the year has just begun!
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
What’s funny is that hunting actually is tightly regulated in most states. You need a license, and you’re only allowed to shoot certain animals of a specific size, and you can get in really big trouble if you break the rules.
That’s why What about the hunters? is a totally bogus argument. Hunters are well accustomed to there being rules about what guns they can use and what they’re allowed to do. The problem is the assholes who use “hunters” as cover for their own desire to have powerful weapons.
Gin & Tonic
@Aleta: You can hunt in Australia. I have a friend there who does. Here’s a link to the Sporting Shooters’ Association, which is sort of what the NRA used to be.
Spanky
@Mnemosyne:
And yet you ARE a powerful political block, and I’m not sure that you’re not more effective when flying (just) under the radar.
Miss Bianca
@Brachiator: I know, the utter tone-deafness of the ammosexuals kind of takes my breath away.
@Mnemosyne: That’s a rhetorical question, right? You’re not *seriously* asking that, are you? With all the funding and personnel cuts at the state and federal level for park rangers, game wardens, et al.?
No One of Consequence
Bleg for new Open Thread about Mueller dropping 17 charges on Gates?! Summunahgotsumfin, methinks…
– NOoC
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne: FWIW, my dad has been boar hunting for decades with rifles and shotguns. He’s a total gun nut who owns an AR-15 but does not use it for hunting because he doesn’t consider it sporting. I think the boar-hunting argument is hogwash.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Thanks that’s what I figured out too. I was just confirming that by asking questions because hunting is not something I have any first hand knowledge about.
ETA: I had a friend whose wife used to hunt moose and those licenses were not easy to come by in Maine.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Umm…and how does this actually differ from what I was saying?
@geg6: I am not making the argument that they are necessary. Just pointing out that some people do, in fact, use them for boar hunting. Not me, but some people. Which was what Adam, for example, was pointing out. I wouldn’t, because I’d want the meat.
Immanentize
@Hoodie: Wild pig makes for some good eating. They are not killers, although they can be dangerous. My neighbor regularly hunted wild hogs on his property in Texas with a deer rifle. We would go out in the early morning, spread a little corn laced with Hog Draw and wait for the hairy matted beasts to come out of their runs. No one needs a friggin assault weapon to kill a hog.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
And an AR-15 would have done what, exactly, to help that situation?
It was a tragic freak accident, and having a gun nearby would have done exactly nothing to either prevent it or save the child. And yet gun nuts will use that tragedy to argue that they should get to keep their toys, and even buy more of them.
Corner Stone
While we are leaping to the defense of hunters, I will just add that a lot of the time it isn’t even about taking game. I can’t count how many times I have left the field without firing a shot. Sometimes it was better to just be out and enjoying the separation and the scenery. Mother Nature still kind of kicks ass, IMO.
Chip Daniels
@Betty Cracker:
Even accepting the need for semiautos to hunt boar, having those weapons highly restricted to such a use seems reasonable, like how we handle other deadly things like explosives or toxics.
MisterForkbeard
@LAO: Whenever someone talks about Chicago gun control failing, I talk about peeing in pools. Doesn’t matter if you declare that no one can pee within 5 feet of you if someone else is going to pee 6 feet away.
You still get peed on. The analogy to gun control should be obvious.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Why. Having dozens of children gunned down by armed maniacs doesn’t seem to have done a lot to our gun laws. Why should one child eaten by a wild hog?
charluckles
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Too close to lunch for that story. My mouth is watering. Thanks
Immanentize
@LAO: Hey LAO — Any ideas about the Microsoft case today? I am wanting to say something smart about it in class in 45 minutes.
something fabulous
@LAO: “knitting” together advocacy of the various groups of needleworkers + “sunlight being the best disinfectant” I propose: KC & The Sunshine Band!
Miss Bianca
@charluckles: You’re right, They are *definitely* doing it old-school!
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Because there is no NHA or the National Hog Association, that advocates for the rights of hogs.
Stan
@joel hanes: I
I honestly don’t know any bird hunters so I can’t comment.
But yes, backing off even to the point of “no detachable magazines” is also massive progress and pretty close to what I advocate. Off the top of my head I can only think of a few really capable, military type semiautos that don’t have detachable magazines, e.g. the M1 Garand comes to mnd.
Steeplejack
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Which creates a citizenry inured to no right to privacy, no right against unreasonable searches, etc., and docilely accepting an all-enveloping, all-powerful “security state” so that the gun-humpers can enjoy their right to carry firesticks wherever they want—and stand ready to protect their rights should the evil government ever encroach on them!
Mnemosyne
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I see what you did there. ?
glory b
@ Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) : I know. The local news folks here aren’t talking about how easy or difficult it is to get semi automatics, they are going to local high schools and jiggling doors to see if they are locked. They were shocked to find out that the janitors keep the garage doors open while they throw out the trash!! /s/
Of course, the doors from the garage to the building are locked, but this necessitated a visit to the superintendent for an explanation.
And of course, none of them were city schools, all suburban.
LAO
@Immanentize: Eh, I haven’t thought about it (sorry) — got nothing.
trollhattan
@Corner Stone:
I hunt with a camera. Bang.
Technical geek point: my latest camera can capture 60 frames per second. Wayne LaPierre wants to marry me.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
It’s a rhetorical question in the sense that I realize that states have cut all of their budgets to the bone, including fish & game. I’m pointing out that it was a stupid thing to do if it leaves citizens at risk of being killed by wild animals.
ruemara
@Spanky: I much rather we conduct ourselves as if we were a very not powerful, not numerous voting block. They’re not attacking the voting rights of white women, so that fallacy is working for them. Don’t give up an advantage until you have a path to clear the field.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I don’t know if this is smart or not, but it just showed up in my RSS feed:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/recap-oral-arguments-microsoft-ireland
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
It doesn’t. That why I’m not sure what we’re arguing about.
Faithful Lurker
Does anybody know if the Avis/Budget group has stopped their arrangement with the NRA as of today?
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@glory b:
Local news in general, not just TV, tends to suck doesn’t it?
There was a female anchor a few years ago on a local station that showed protesters with signs that had some profanity on them. They were protesting racists or something and that anchor acted so offended, you could hear her voice quiver with anger while she was making some half-assed equivalence between the two groups after the clip. She emphasised that the anti-racists used profanity. I nearly called to complain.
Stan
@Miss Bianca:
Yes, absolutely true. The ‘culture’ of hunting is very strong and in my experience includes the ideas that you kill with one shot, you kill only what you need, and you have a high degree of contempt for idiots who have weapons beyond their ability to use them. There’s also a strong value put on safety and respect.
Lee
@No One of Consequence: The thinking on that is Gates gave him so much actionable intel that he is dropping the charges.
Mueller is sending a great big huge message ‘Sing or else’.
Mnemosyne
@Faithful Lurker:
I know that National/Alamo has, if you’re in imminent need of a rental car.
trnc
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?: Excellent points. Adding to my point about user interaction between guns and cars, I think the thought of running over a bunch of people doesn’t send a thrill up a twisted person’s leg the way shooting people does. I think every mass shooter sees a little bit of Rambo staring back at them in the mirror.
Mnemosyne
@something fabulous:
Hello, you!
That’s it, just saying hi. ?
ETA: If you stroll into the Writer’s Guild library and see a cute bearded redhead working, no flirting — that’s my husband. ? He’s interning there right now.
Miss Bianca
@Litlebritdifrnt: How the HELL am I supposed to reduce a deer to useless shreds with a pair of knitting needles? STABBY STABBY STABBY just doesn’t pack the same wallop as PEW PEW PEW, thank you very much, madam!
Immanentize
@LAO: It’s interesting — warrant? to 3rd party provider for (email) material electronically stored not in US for US citizen. I’ll figure it out somewhat…
Faithful Lurker
@Mnemosyne: I saw that. Avis was the only car rental company holding out. I don’t need a car at the moment, I just want the NRA isolated and shunned.
I’ll check back later…work calls.
Fair Economist
@Matt McIrvin:
However, assault rifles and other military-grade rifles account for the majority of gun company profits. Take that out, and they’ll have a lot less money to convince people to “defend” themselves with a weapon which mostly gets used for suicide.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Steeplejack:
Those are very good points. Which is why the momentum on gun control can’t be lost this time. The stakes are even greater than more people dead from mass shootings.
trnc
@Steeplejack: Funny how the same people who so glibly suggest random searches, and who also push for open carry, say that a gun registration requirement is oppression and a slippery slope.
Steeplejack
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Adam Silverman had a very detailed post about the reality of gun ownership and use in Israel a
day or twoweek ago. You might look that up and use it for, uh, ammunition.. . . Okay, found it for you: “The Right to Teach and Bear Arms.”
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: I think I raised the question in an earlier thread. Let’s say a US person stores data in, let’s just say, Norway, with a provider who is disinclined to accede to US law enforcement; said provider is domiciled in Norway and has no business presence nor physical assets in the US. Short of a court order from a Norwegian court, what would compel them to produce the data?
Beautifulplumage
@reader at work just now not at usual nym: check the March For Our Lives facebook page for other cities with organized events. Seattle is having one but I’m working the big cask beer festival that day so can’t go ?
Edit: probably duplicate info; I didn’t realize there were already so many comments
Corner Stone
@trollhattan: You’ve gotta get out of there! They are looking right at you! Get out now! Before you become deer food!
mad citizen
@Chip Daniels: “It was only a year or so ago I started pounding the drum that we need to challenge the very existence of a “right” to own a gun in a civilized society, in part because I wanted to stretch the bounds of discourse to the left.
Now I am seeing more and more people actually talking this up, as an actual thing.
Why does such a “right” need to exist?”
I thought this was a great post. It’s exactly where I am too. The 2nd Amendment needs a repeal and perhaps a replacement–the 28th Amendment. I googled and found many Michael Moore links on the first couple results pages. He came up with a rewrite but I don’t like it. He refers to the National Guard, and still guarantees the right to own guns, but tries to ban automatic weapons.
I said “perhaps a replacement” because if we simply repealed the 2nd Amendment, each state could regulate as it sees fit (rights not specifically reserved for Congress are left to the states). Otherwise, write simple language giving Congress the right to regulate guns, weapons, whatever, including banning some types.
Boatboy_srq
@Corner Stone: Anyone defending his “lily-white wife-daughter” ought to have that 30rnd mag turned back on him. Ain’t that right, Uncle-Daddy?
/dash-slash pedant
Miss Bianca
@Corner Stone:
THE PHOTOS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE WOODS!!
Corner Stone
@Starfish:
I am not sure how they handle that but found this nugget off Tbogg’s twit feed. I am sure there are more of these out there.
Corner Stone
BTW, just hearing Jar Jar is having his clearance stripped/downgraded.
Politico and MSNBC reporting.
aimai
@trnc: Ha Ha! Years ago the local police officer in charge of public relations was talking to me about the original Million Mom’s March and he was trying to persuade me that if my husband was beating me I would really want to own a gun in case the police couldn’t get to me in time. I said to him “I already own a two ton machine that will take him out–and I’m licensed to drive it.”
SiubhanDuinne
Jared’s security clearance as bee n downgraded, according to Nicole Wallace!
mad citizen
@geg6: The PA stats: Turkey (spring) – 193,804
Turkey (fall) – 125,211
Rabbit – 62,378
Grouse – 40,094
Squirrel – 100,482
Pheasant – 74,953
Woodcock – 4,402
Dove – 16,218
Hare – 3,014
Woodchuck – 62,628
Crow – 13,844
Porcupine – 5,011
Deer – 1,299,372
My serious comment is: we can have such detailed numbers for how many animals are being killed, but can’t regulate guns in some reasonable way?
My unserious observation is that the gun issue makes people serious and passionate–unusual jackal behavior. I was surprised there were no woodcock jokes. I have to admit I do not know what a woodcock is.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: This is basically the class I am teaching for the next few sessions. The quick answer is nothing direct. The long answer is that if there is a grand jury proceeding and the Norwegian company has any link — probably through some electronic carrier that is from the US (many banking cases like this) there would be a way to coerce compliance by civil contempt orders (read huge daily fines). But really if there is no business connection? Nothing other than political remedies. Think of Switzerland and numbered bank accounts… Hard to break, but possible. Obviously, the purpose of the need for the material is critical — is it on line gaming? or is it terrorism money laundering?
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: And the next time he asks to see the PDB, I’m sure Trump will say “Sorry, Jared, you’re not cleared for that information, so you know I can’t give it to you.”
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks.
Immanentize
@Corner Stone: Voter Fraud! Call KKKris KKKobach!
Steeplejack
@mad citizen:
I got yer woodcock right here! [Unseemly gesture]
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I see what you did there. Boar hunting. Hogwash.
A little humor with respect to this terrible topic is appreciated.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: I feel a slight tingle in my tinglies that Trump is about to open the whole thing to Jared, Kelly be damned.
Immanentize
@SiubhanDuinne: Maybe the Senate letter on the clearances finally shook the tree sufficiently? But notice it happened after Ivanka’s nuclear treaty negotiations with North Korea….
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: The encryption mechanisms come into play, too. Are the data encrypted “at rest”? Does the storage provider possess keys? Is the transport from the US to the non-US country over encrypted channels? Does the non-US company maintain traffic logs? There are lots of ways of making access difficult if you have no interest in cooperating.
something fabulous
@Mnemosyne: Howdy! (waves) Happen to be wandering by on a thread while it is still happening for once. How you? Have been by the Writer’s Guild Library in forever. Reminds me to put it back in rotation! :)
trollhattan
@Corner Stone:
I am known for my salty deliciousness, especially in summer!
Sm*t Cl*de
@Mnemosyne:
So you believe in the right to arm bears?
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic:
“What’s a PDB? Is that a new hamburger at McDonald’s?”
Miss Bianca
@aimai: Did you happen to also bring up the fact that if you’re pulling a gun on your husband – who’s presumably bigger and stronger than you, and could probably get it away from you before you shot him – you’re probably endangering yourself even further?
Or are we not supposed to bring these things up in politce company?
Regnad Kcin
@Mnemosyne: Oh, it’s for population control, alright… :(
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Once humor slops over into the hog discussion alles es verloren.
Corner Stone
@mad citizen:
I believe those are game licenses issued, not reported kills.
debbie
Facebook tells me that after two weeks, Emma Gonzales has more followers on Twitter than the NRA. Hot damn!
Miss Bianca
btw, completely off=topic…up here in the high country, the winds are blowing so hard I just saw a chickadee do a face-plant on the way to the feeder!
noncarborundum
@Corner Stone:
If we can manage to get the next bunch of slaughtered kids to bleed on his beautiful marble floors, then maybe he’ll start to care. Maybe.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: If you have a woodcock in your crotch then may I humbly suggest you put down the keyboard and attend to more pressing matters?
trollhattan
@mad citizen:
Crow and porcupine? Is crow a PA game animal or an ag pest? You could shoot that many crow in my city in a single day and it wouldn’t make a dent.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: In the Microsoft case, the company argued that just because the data could be accessed from the US, the search was still abroad (in this case, Ireland). I think that is a very good read of current constitutional criminal procedure law. It is so odd that the evil corporate giants (and government cops like the FBI) are currently among our best advocates for preserving the little bit of space still allotted to personal privacy.
Corner Stone
WOW:
JWR
Hey look! Chris Cillizza’s got a deep, insightful, (/snark), piece today! Here’s how he ends his latest load of weepy, whiny, nothin’s ever gonna happen! BS:
Fine. The longer “deep thinkers” like Cillizza can’t see what’s coming, the better. (If only to bask in their glorious idiocy when it unexpectedly hits ’em upside the head.)
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: If you were, professional trolls would be trying to inflame the knitter/crocheter divide.
(Actually… based on some stories I’ve heard… how do we know they’re not?)
Matt McIrvin
@aimai: In the real world, having a gun in a house that has a domestic abuser in it more often leads to a dead victim.
Matt McIrvin
@Corner Stone: It’s not quite as bad as that implies–SCOTUS didn’t rule that the law is constitutional, just that it was being interpreted correctly. They remanded it to the 9th Circuit over constitutionality. Of course, given the makeup of the court and that one of the liberals was recusing herself, they may well rule the same way over habeas corpus.
JWR
@Corner Stone:
“No one can claim, nor since the time of slavery has anyone to my knowledge successfully claimed, that persons held within the United States are totally without constitutional protection.”
Justice Stephen Breyer, reading from his dissent in the case Jennings v. Rodriguez
Via NPR.
Corner Stone
The very best people. These are the ones we are supposed to listen to, respectfully, while they share their views.
Conservative Commentator Erick Erickson Calls Parkland Shooting Survivor David Hogg ‘a Bully’
“He is using his status as victim to inappropriately and ridiculously attack people while going unchallenged,” Erickson wrote Monday. “David Hogg is a bully.”
Aleta
Written by an Australian gun owner, in Time Mag in Jan 2016.
He says that you have to prove to the government the reason that you want/need a gun.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
Slavery has come again to the USA.
Chyron HR
@Corner Stone:
BUT THE NEOLIBERAL STATUS QUO COULD NOT STAND, MAN
TenguPhule
@mad citizen:
Between the ones who own and the ones who are related to and/or have friends that own, its a personal subject for a lot of people here.
trnc
@aimai: Love how the cop talking to you thinks there’s a force field around the gun preventing the wife-beating husband from using it.
trnc
@Corner Stone: Weapons stocks go down, private prison stocks go up. Even Steven.
Aleta
@Aleta: I also read that self-defense is not considered a reason to receive a license from the Aus. government.
(There may be inaccuracies in what I quoted; I didn’t check any other source.)
Gelfling 545
@schrodingers_cat: And what kind of a piss poor hunter/marksman do you have to be to need assault weapons, extraordinary amounts of ammunition, etc to pursue your hobby?
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
The right wing is totally coming unhinged. This means that the pressure is working.
Corner Stone
Click through to get the payoff on this twit gif:
Rick gates the past few days:
Duane
I read a Mediate piece by a Joesph Wulfsohn lambasting the activist students for being mean to the NRA and their poster girl. He’s a real snowflake. Get that man a tumbrel number.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Corner Stone:
Might want to consult a medical professional about that, you know like Tweety and his “thrill up his leg”.
different-church-lady
Just how much are we paying these kids to be murdered?
Steve in the ATL
@Mnemosyne:
I need one tomorrow, and it will be National. Yay me!
KS in MA
@Villago Delenda Est: This.
Ksmiami
@MuckJagger: yes even in tx not insane gun owners are willing to ban assault weaponry and large clips
Ruckus
They want 15 million members, I wonder how many of the 5 million they claim really exist. And even if they got to 15 million, things seem to be going strong enough that that won’t close to enough.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
That’s only in CA, because F1 can’t meet emissions-control standards. But in Tejas — yee-HAW!
SgrAstar
@geg6: porcupine season? Good grief.
Gvg
@Mnemosyne: Florida did not lay off the fish and game people. Where do you get that? Hogs are an invasive exotic that have been killing people since the Spanish accidental released them. Fish and game people were never the ones getting them as there were never enough of those. It’s always been hired special hunters when needed. It’s not an even problem. They get numerous somewhere and the state reacts as needed.
Hogs run in big packs sometimes and that might be cause for semiauto but actually I’ve never heard of it happening. I am prepared for Fish and game to decide on a special permit if called for. Lots of areas here are too populated. And yes, hogs go close to humans too. Some are actually feral not wild. Anyway don’t believe all the Florida man hype. We have a population of 20 million so of course you can find a few stories of total nuts. Most of us are normal and live ordinary lives.
Gvg
@Mnemosyne: trained hunters are better and don’t use the word civilian. Hogs are not enemy soldiers and hunting them or alligators or boas is not similar. People develop skills according to talent, opportunity and interest. Being a soldier or cop is not terribly like hunting even though we use some of the same words. Any way the people hired are usually the best around for that particular job because they have been doing that a little for a long time or something similar. If it’s an open hunt because some species over produced and got out of hand, most of the hunters will be of mixed quality and some will do most of the work but others will get practice and do it better later. It is dangerous but that is a choice some people want to make and if they don’t endanger others it’s not so terrible. The if determines the need. We are not sending the military in to hunt hogs.
different-church-lady
@Gvg:
But then again, so are humans.
Tehanu
@TenguPhule:
This reminds me of a book by S.M. Stirling, in which American society devolves because suddenly electricity and gunpowder don’t work any more (for handwave/science fiction reasons). A medieval history professor decides to set himself up as a warlord, builds a castle, gets a lot of bad actors to capture and exploit helpless workers at spearpoint, etc. Finally a bunch of rebels decide to take him out — and they succeed, because they aren’t uneducated medieval peasants. I think the gun-fondlers imagine themselves as the warlords of the new “Golden Age of feudalism” and are too stupid to figure out that their opponents wouldn’t just revert back to being peasants.
J R in WV
@Stan:
Stan, MisterForkbeard is saying that revolver pistols or lever action or pump action rifles or shotguns are suitable for boar hunting. This is accurate, my brother killed a boar that weighed over 750 pounds with a .44 Magnum revolver. And if he had not killed the boar, and quickly, it would have certainly killed him. None of the guns I listed is semi-automatic at all. That technology (levers and revolvers) was invented in the mid 1800s. Semi-automatic hand guns were invented about 1900, and good ones a little after than that.
Elephants were hunted with large caliber double-barreled rifles, and the hunter had men standing behind him with other loaded rifles in case the first two rounds didn’t do the work. That was a long time ago.
The first World War was fought by men carrying bolt action rifles, facing fully automatic machine guns that could mow down thousands of brave but poorly commanded charging men, until tactics were developed after those murderous battles that allowed advancing soldiers to avoid standing up and charging at machine guns.