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You are here: Home / Politics / America / We Are Through the Map and Off the Looking Glass: Ammon Bundy Edition!

We Are Through the Map and Off the Looking Glass: Ammon Bundy Edition!

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These are, indeed, strange days!

Salvador Hernandez at Buzzfeed has the story (emphasis mine):

Bundy led two armed standoffs against the feds in Nevada and Oregon, and his family quickly became the face of a growing militia movement, bringing a national spotlight to armed groups eager for a conflict with what they believed to be an overreaching government.

So when he logged on to Facebook last week to speak to his supporters in defense of the caravan of Central American migrants gathered at the southern border, a frequent target of President Trump, he figured he’d face some criticism.

“To group them all up like, frankly, our president has done — you know, trying to speak respectfully — but he has basically called them all criminals and said they’re not coming in here,” Bundy said in the video. “What about individuals, those who have come for reasons of need for their families, you know, the fathers and mothers and children that come here and were willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually?”

Bundy went on, dispelling conspiracy theories that billionaire George Soros was behind the caravan or that terrorists were using the group to sneak into the US.

But the backlash from his supporters was immediate, with many repudiating Bundy for his views. Followers who had traveled to his father’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, in 2014 during an armed standoff with federal agents over unpaid cattle grazing fees said they regretted doing so. Others claimed Bundy was being paid by left-wing “globalists” to switch sides. Some told him they wished he was dead, or that militias had never supported his family.

Bundy was shocked by the swift reaction.

“I expected to get a decent amount of pushback, but I also believed that I could explain to them why I’d taken those positions and why,” he told BuzzFeed News. “But you know, I’ve always had these kinds of thoughts that people were not really listening to the principles of things, that they had aligned with me for some other reasons, and that some of those [reasons] are good and some of those might not be, but this last video kind of confirmed that.”

So on Tuesday, Bundy shut down his social media accounts and said he was stepping away from the public light and the “patriot groups” that had gained national attention while supporting the Nevada ranching family. The decision to quit wasn’t an easy one, Bundy said, but the movement’s unforgiving opposition to the migrant caravan and what he called a dangerous and blinding support of President Trump left him with no choice.

“It’s like being in a room full of people in here, trying to teach, and no one is listening,” he said. “The vast majority seemed to hang on to what seemed like hate, and fear, and almost warmongering, and I don’t want to associate myself with warmongers.”

Much, much more at the link!

We are well and truly off the looking glass and through the map.

Also, obligatory:

 

Chew Hard!

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    I have to confess I am a little stunned he knows anything about modern history. Would not have guessed he could put that together.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    Others claimed Bundy was being paid by left-wing “globalists” to switch sides. Some told him they wished he was dead, or that militias had never supported his family.

    Bundy was shocked by the swift reaction.

    Shouldn’t have tried to dismount that tiger, boyo.

  5. 5.

    germy

    He’s worried he’ll lose workers. Someone’s got to work his land. I doubt he and his family get their hands very dirty. They’ve got laborers for that sort of thing.

  6. 6.

    Corner Stone

    Bundy led two armed standoffs against the feds in Nevada and Oregon, and his family quickly became the face of a growing militia movement neo-nazi right wing supremacy hate group, bringing a national spotlight to armed groups eager for a conflict with what they believed to be an overreaching government.

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    the “patriot groups” that had gained national attention while supporting the Nevada ranching family.

    Ranch Davidians.

  15. 15.

    TenguPhule

    @germy:

    He’s worried he’ll lose workers. Someone’s got to work his land. I doubt he and his family get their hands very dirty. They’ve got laborers for that sort of thing.

    Doing what? No reputable meat packer will buy his free range cattle because they’re walking bags of parasites and disease.

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    “It’s like being in a room full of people in here, trying to teach, and no one is listening,” he said. “The vast majority seemed to hang on to what seemed like hate, and fear, and almost warmongering, and I don’t want to associate myself with warmongers.”

    Apparently Bundy revisited the old Nazi Germany tapes and had a blinding flash of inspiration where he realized that all those people ended up losing.

  19. 19.

    NotMax

    Ho ho
    (Ho ho)
    Hee hee
    (Hee hee)
    Hu hu
    (Hu hu)
    Strange things are happening
      – Red Buttons

    (Obscure reference of the day quota now fulfilled.)

  20. 20.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    From the link:

    Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, said far-right groups, including alt-right and militia gatherings, have begun to show divisions and fractures since the 2016 election.

    Many involved in the groups were united in opposition to the Obama administration, then to Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and later in support of President Trump. But Trump’s victory has left the groups without a target, and individual issues and topics have once again begun to split some of their followers.

    “Once it changed from an insurgency into something else, once the left was thrown out of the hold of government, the expectations for the far-right changed,” Levin said.

    It’s unlikely Bundy’s decision to exit will further splinter militia groups, Pitcavage said, but the so-called patriot movement — which has for years pegged itself as an anti-establishment collective aimed at curbing government abuses — finds itself in a difficult position at the moment.

    “The militia movement has been in this weird space, unlike anything it’s experienced in its previous history because someone they supported is the head of government,” he said.

  21. 21.

    Llelldorin

    Fascinating.

    I wonder how many right wing blowhards are like this: Mostly mad at the federal government because of its role in controlling the use of finite shared resources (“What do you mean we can’t graze an arbitrary number of cattle on Federal lands for free? What do you mean we can’t use the entire Klamath River to irrigate our crops? What are salmon fishers and why should we care?”), and will pull back from the brink of outright goose-stepping?

    I have a terrible feeling that the answer is “not enough”, but it’s still interesting.

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    Ammon Bundy, come onnnnnn down! You’re the next contestant on The Price of Trumpism Is Wrong!!

    Holy shit, what in the world is going on? Next thing you’ll tell me some FoxBlonde is going to represent our country at the U.N., and that Jeff Flake isn’t allowing Republican judicial nominations through until Mueller is protected.

  25. 25.

    TenguPhule

    Zach Dorfman
    @zachsdorfman
    Bill Barr, Trump’s new AG pick, literally oversaw–as AG!–George H.W. Bush’s slew of pardons for the Iran-Contra scandal, including a pardon of former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger *before his trial even began*.

    The light is flashing red, folks.https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/10/how-to-kill-a-presidential-scandal-trump-russia-watergate-iran-contra/ …

    41
    6:20 AM – Dec 7, 2018

    Well that didn’t take long.

    Now we know why Trump hired him.

  26. 26.

    VeniceRiley

    Is there a QAnon hot take? That would be the cherry on top of this dog that caught the car.

  30. 30.

    catclub

    @TenguPhule:

    old Nazi Germany tapes and had a blinding flash of inspiration where he realized that all those people ended up losing.

    “we’re wearing skulls! Maybe we’re the bad guys.”

  31. 31.

    waspuppet

    “It’s like being in a room full of people in here, trying to teach, and no one is listening,” he said.

    It’s always entertaining watching a stupid, entitled white guy finding out that people are under no obligation to listen to him. Even when the audience is other white people and what they believe is even worse.

  32. 32.

    jl

    The Bundys are primarily grifters who have scraped by through chiseling the feds on the already far too cheap and heavily taxpayer subsidized rent for public grazing land. They were such outrageous grifters that even their fellow, lawful, grifter neighbors who have a good understanding of what a sweet deal they have and maybe they should be nice about the public goodies they are receiving, grew completely disgusted with them.

    All the militia and white supremacist stuff kind of grew out of the Bundys looking for help, any help would do, in order to keep their scam going. So, unexpected maybe, but not astonishing, that nutso ideology was never this guy’s prime motivation.

    He may just be sick and tired of all the armed nutjobs hanging around, many of whom from what I’ve read, also need hand outs and don’t have the wits to find a long term feasible scam, or can’t stay inside a budget that fits their grift take.

    Was this Bundy involved in the Oregon stand off? There was that poor delusional cowboy who seemed to have gone quietly mad, and that he was a hero in the Last Range War for Freedom, who talked about martyrdom, and then very needlessly committed suicide by federal agent. Wonder if the memory of pointless death of that guy, who was trying to support a family, has been eating on him.

    Another weakness of the Trumpster movement may be that some of them may not really be all that devoted to the core principles of ideological fascism, they just wandered into it out of frustration about the general impoverishment of the ‘lesser people’ in the US over the last few decades. Eventually something snaps them out of it. They are probably still have many toxic beliefs but as the evidence of Trump failure incompetence and pointless hate that accomplishes nothing piles up, they figure no reason to hitch their grievances to the Trump crazy train that looks to be heading for a crash.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: Actually he hired him because he’s an immigration hardliner. He’s the one who got the DOD to build the original bit of border wall/fence in San Diego by leveraging the Rodney King riots.

  35. 35.

    Adam L Silverman

    @VeniceRiley: Actually I did this post and am commenting from the Deep State internment transit and processing facility since today is the day that Q has indicated the 60,000 indictments are being filed and the arrests are being made. I’m waiting to be inprocessed and shipped off to wherever…

  36. 36.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: So it’s the pediatricians‘ fault for pointing out what can happen when their patients have easy access to weapons. Not the people who sell the weapons, not the people who think that the solution to the danger from weapons is more weapons…it’s the folks who swear a Hippocratic oath and dedicate their lives to their patients’ health who are the REAL bad guys. Got it, Dana. I’m just gonna move you about eight thousand names up the (8,002-name) tumbrel list if that’s okay with you ma’am?

  38. 38.

    Medicine Man

    I’ll give Ammon Bundy the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that he, and perhaps a significant portion of the militia movement, are not closet authoritarians. Paranoid individualists drunk on the romantic ideal of the west that never was, but not wannabe fascists.

    Its quite a sight though, the Trump era is apparently a come to Jesus moment for even many in the militias.

  40. 40.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I am gobsmacked.

    @germy:

    He’s worried he’ll lose workers.

    The Bundy thing was that they didn’t want to employ workers. They wanted to let illegal cattle roam unsupervised on government land and then sell the uninspected meat for cash on the black market when they felt like gunning down a few.

  41. 41.

    jl

    I always end up typing too much. The short and sweet version of what I typed above might be that the Trumpster BLM still wants ranchers to pay some rent someday. Ranchers are low class fools who don’t count for big classy top terrific Trump admin bennies. So what good are they anyway? Better to forget about these losers.

  42. 42.

    Aziz, light!

    Remember, Ammon spent a year breathing commie peacenik air molecules here in Portland while parked in his cell across the street from my desk.

    Also, he is not a working rancher. Doesn’t he service heavy trucks or something like that over in Idaho?

  43. 43.

    Amir Khalid

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    “The militia movement has been in this weird space, unlike anything it’s experienced in its previous history because someone they supported is the head of government,” he said.

    In other words, they have become the dog that caught the car.

  44. 44.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    Got it, Dana. I’m just gonna move you about eight thousand names up the (8,002-name) tumbrel list if that’s okay with you ma’am?

    Gonna need bigger tumbrels.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    @Amir Khalid:

    In other words, they have become the dog that caught the car.

    Worse, the dog is in the driver’s seat, the keys are in the ignition and the engine is running.

  51. 51.

    hueyplong

    Say what you will about Dana’s Puritan dominatrix look, it likely approaches truth in advertising, and seems likely to appeal to the 4chan crowd on a day when they’ll need a … diversion.

  52. 52.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Maybe she thinks she needs a “professional” look when going up against medical docs and surgeons? Looks like she borrowed Rich Perry’s ‘smart’ glasses. She has to throw in some words and concepts that a professional eggheads might worry about, like ‘responsible’.

    If so, it needs some more work.

  53. 53.

    Mandalay

    It looks like the Bundy family has gone rogue. This is what Ammon Bundy’s dad said the other day:

    Cliven Bundy is not a fan of walls.

    A hero to some in the far right due to his family’s armed standoffs with the US government, the Nevada rancher is an avid supporter of Donald Trump. But there’s one major issue where they diverge.

    “I really question his doctrine ever since he started it about building a wall,” Bundy, 72, told the Guardian on Wednesday. “I don’t like walls. I think we oughta be able to get along with neighbors … Trump’s wall never did sit very good with me.”

  54. 54.

    Mj_Oregon

    Wow. Didn’t see that one coming at all. We’re still living with the aftermath of the occupation of the Malheur refuge. In my county a member of the Oregon III% managed to get a measure 0n the ballot that to allow our county sheriff to ignore or put any resources towards enforcing any law that limits gun rights.

    If the Linn County Sheriff determines that any federal, state or local laws affecting firearms, firearms accessories or ammunition are unconstitutional then the county may not authorize the use of funds, resources, employees, agencies, contractors, buildings, detention centers, or office for the purpose of enforcing such laws.

    It passed – handily.

  55. 55.

    germy

    @jl:

    Maybe she thinks she needs a “professional” look…

    Roger Ailes never would have permitted this.

  58. 58.

    scott (the other one)

    @Adam L Silverman: So…I’m a million miles away from being an attorney. But the implication seems to be that Kelly’s stepping down because he told Mueller he was aware of obstruction of justice. Yet he continued working there for another year. Did he have a legal or ethical obligation to resign when it happened? Could he face any sort of legal ramifications?

    Most of all, of course, I want him and Flynn to get their pensions stripped, but I realize that’s probably not going to happen.

  65. 65.

    jl

    @Uncle Cosmo: If that look can do double duty, so much the better. I agree though with the commenter who said Ailes would never permit it. No blonde sex toy to be found there.

  70. 70.

    Kattails

    Hey, if Bundy wants to come around, good for him. Most religions allow for redemption.
    Loesch, on the other hand–just looking at her raises my blood pressure. If I listened to her I’d go all b*tch-slappy, which would not add to my day. Glad someone can manage to track these things for us.

  71. 71.

    jl

    I guess an even shorter version of what I typed above, would be that a competent proto-fascist movement would find a way to get these guys on a reliable payroll.

    A big problem with Trump as Dear Leader is that in the endless internal war between selfish swindler, butt ignorant dumbass, knee-jerk universal bigot, and crafty fascist, the crafty fascist seems to lose a lot of battles to the first two.

  74. 74.

    Captain C

    @Adam L Silverman: In other news, now claiming to be working for the Drano lobby, Loesch said it was the height of irresponsibility to connect drinking Drano with rapid and painful death. When contacted, an actual spokesman for Drano said they’d never heard of her, and please to not drink their product or listen to Loesch ever.

  75. 75.

    sherparick

    @germy: I know we are suppose to be in the land of the “Unforgiven” here, but lets just let the guy speak before we also start going down rabbit holes and conspiracy theories. Sometimes, people just wake up one day and say, “whoa there,” this is not what I thought it was.

  78. 78.

    Mike in NC

    @jl: Russell Crowe is starring as Roger Ailes in an upcoming miniseries called “The Loudest Voice in the Room”. No word yet if it’s a musical-comedy.

  79. 79.

    Corner Stone

    Man, I just saw the recent Trump tweet dogging out Sexy Rexy Tillerson. That is some of the best comedic shit, ever!

  80. 80.

    Mary G

    Twitler just complimented law enforcement work done “here in St. Louis.”

    He’s in Kansas City.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    Wouldn’t it be so funny if the far Right fringe became moderates, leaving the mainstream Republican Party as the far Right, just twisting in the wind, having completely destroyed themselves pandering to the far Right?

    That would be beautiful. Entice them out to the fringes then leave them there, and double back. Hah!

  82. 82.

    sherparick

    @Mj_Oregon: The problem all our “liberty” loving Constitutionalists out there in Right-Wingnutistan is that they keep forgetting about Article VI of the U.S. Constitution.

    “…This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding…” The “notwithstanding” is the key word here.

  83. 83.

    jl

    @Mike in NC: Assuming its not a pro-Ailes production, would be fun to find a way to make it an update of 42nd Street. Will be plenty of leggy blondes involved, and they could sing snarky subversive lyrics while they danced away.

  84. 84.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Corner Stone:
    Rexy boy is just mad he lost his dream job and all of that Russian oligarch money. Unless I’m a dipshit and he still got all of that money/deals anyway. Probably still angry he lost his SOS job.

  85. 85.

    TenguPhule

    @Mary G:

    Twitler just complimented law enforcement work done “here in St. Louis.”

    He’s in Kansas City.

    That is one epic coke bender.

  86. 86.

    Repatriated

    @Medicine Man:

    I’ll give Ammon Bundy the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that he, and perhaps a significant portion of the militia movement, are not closet authoritarians. Paranoid individualists drunk on the romantic ideal of the west that never was, but not wannabe fascists.

    My first reaction to this news was to literally exclaim, “Wow, he’s sincere!” (Still bonkers of course, but sincere in his bonkers-ness…)

  89. 89.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @TenguPhule:
    Just an addled mind still reliving the past. We heard recently he was still asking aides about 2016. He must be regressing back to 2014 now.

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    Wouldn’t it be so funny if the far Right fringe became moderates, leaving the mainstream Republican Party as the far Right, just twisting in the wind, having completely destroyed themselves pandering to the far Right?

    What would the dividing line even look like anymore? The Far Right, the Alt-Right, the Republican Party. It’s all a degree of measure, not in kind.

  92. 92.

    kindness

    Let us agree that if Hillary had been declared President, Ammon Bundy would still be all in with his militia allies. So while he may appear to be worthy of praise with his new spoken opinions, I’m going to wait for a spell.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    It’s hard for me to take ranchers and farmers seriously as anti-government mavericks for the simple reason that they get so many government goodies.

    I myself would feel silly grabbing every bennie and subsidy in sight while traipsing around in a cowboy costume. I feel like I could only pull that off for a couple of months and I’d have to admit it’s ridiculous. Maybe they had relatives who were cowboys but still. My grandfather was a coal miner and I’m not walking around wearing a helmet with a light on it.

  95. 95.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    What would the dividing line even look like anymore? The Far Right, the Alt-Right, the Republican Party. It’s all a degree of measure, not in kind.

    Kill em all and let Mammon know his own.

  97. 97.

    gratuitous

    Having cleared the room with a rank fart, Ammon would now like to run away from the stink of his past.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Corner Stone:

    The far Right are like “I just felt the children in the cages were too extreme”

    And Lindsey Graham and Paul Ryan have to defend it, occupy that ground. In their suits.

  100. 100.

    germy

    President Trump must really be messing up when the frat-faced fuck boy Tucker Carlson, an employee of the president’s personal YouTube channel, Fox News, turns on him and actually begins sounding like he has an informed and unbiased opinion.

    Carlson told an editor at some German-language magazine“Die Weltwoche” he didn’t believe President Trump had kept his promises on just about anything.

    “His chief promises were that he would build the wall, defund Planned Parenthood and repeal Obamacare, and he hasn’t done any of those things,” Carlson said, according to The Washington Post. Carlson added that waiting for those things to actually happen would be like waiting for Maxine Waters to become Trump’s new chief of staff.

    He also noted that Trump doesn’t understand the system and that “his own agencies don’t support him.”

    https://www.theroot.com/fox-news-tucker-carlson-turns-on-trump-hes-not-capabl-1830940037

  102. 102.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Kay:
    You have to remember, those cowboys in the Old West benefited from government too. They needed Forts to defend them from the Native American groups they stole the land from in order to facilitate trade. Sure, life was harder then, then it is now, because the role of government was so restricted. But the myth of the cowboy is still a myth.

  104. 104.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: Its based on Gabriel Sherman’s unauthorized biography of Ailes, which Ailes spent a lot of money trying to stop.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @Corner Stone:

    Susan Collins is fringe to Ammon Bundy’s compassionate centrism. It’s the best :)

    She’s stuck with the baby snatchers while he escapes.

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    Oh, I know. Did you know the parents of Little House on the Prairie fame were insane wingnuts who lost their minds when FDR was elected? True! The daughter was too- she became a Right wing activist based (oddly enough) in San Francisco.

    Wingers love those books and I never connected the dots.

  108. 108.

    jl

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: And real cowboys were a multi-racial bunch. I remember estimates about a third white, a third black and a third Mexican. And, lots of gun control in the western cow towns and mining camps. And as the age of the cattle drives ended, violence was directed at ranchers who were trying to enforce their private property rights. And of course, the big ranchers were often investment projects by rich foreigners, and that were founded on real estate fraud practiced on various federal government homestead type acts. I remember reading about the Timber and Stone Act, and how that would be used to trick up a big ranch through fraudulent claims. I forget the names of the other programs.

    So, the western land rights and white surpremacist militia myth was always a myth.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    So now he’s trying to reclaim his poor, sullied reputation? He left Trump on principle, eh? Has he commented on his wanton destruction of the department he was in charge of?

  111. 111.

    suffragettecity

    The day Ammon and the rest of his grifter family denounces W. Cleon Skousen is the day I will consider giving him a pass. Until then they can all go fuck themselves.

  113. 113.

    rikyrah

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Will you do a post, or explain further your statement on Barr and immigration.

    I already know about the pardons and that he never met a Black person that shouldn’t go to jail for a long time…but, I don’t know about his immigration stance.

  114. 114.

    Mandalay

    @Kay:

    Maybe they had relatives who were cowboys but still.

    In malls in the suburbs of Houston I’ve seen grown men dressed up like cowboys. It’s no different to going to malls in Miami and seeing grown men wearing shirts with the names of their heroes from the Dolphins or the Heat on their back.

    The need to belong to a tribe is very powerful for some, even though it can sometimes looks pathetic to outsiders.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    What bugs me about people who inherit farm ground is they won’t acknowlege how they used it as an asset to borrow. That was the leg up. That’s why it was a generational benefit. They could borrow on it. If everyone could secure a low interest loan on an asset they inherited we’d have a lot more rich people. They’re always moaning that it’s not liquid but the loan they secure on it is liquid, and they use it make money. They’re really the most ungrateful people.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Mandalay:

    I do give them cowboy boots though, which are surprisingly comfortable and have the perfect heel height, IMO.

    If you can find a pair that aren’t ugly and garish, which is difficult. It amuses me a little because let’s face it- it’s men wearing heels.

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Mormons can occasionally be a bit of a wild card within the general crowd of fundamentalist Christians. I could see a majority of even conservative Mormons being very, very uncomfortable with the government splitting up families as a punishment for seeking asylum.

  123. 123.

    PaulWartenberg

    George Papadopolous has finished his 12-day stint in jail.

    It felt like he just went in yesterday.

    Count his prison tats. Find out how many he had to shiv in the joint just to stay alive.

  124. 124.

    TriassicSands

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Trump is so bad and bad in such a way that some bad people will be offended by his stupidity, criminality, racism, and narcissism.* Ammon Bundy hasn’t changed his spots, he’s just recognized that fascism is not the way to get what he wants, which is complete freedom from government (except when government largesse is available without conditions). No libertarian should support Trump for even a microsecond if what they want is to be free of government control. Trump is willing to give unconditional freedom to specific groups — the very wealthy and big donors, big corporations to name a few. But nobodies like Bundy can’t expect anything good from Trump unless they revel in Trump trashing the environment. Apparently, Bundy is smart enough to see that Trumpism (fascism with a Queens accent) is a bad deal for him. Sadly, tens of millions of Americans aren’t even that smart.

    * That’s what has continued to amaze me, though I am no longer at all surprised — i.e., how many people are not offended by Trump’s nearly endless list of character flaws and criminal behavior. That points to a much bigger, more serious, and likely more persistent problem than Trump — the people who vote for him and support him no matter what he says or does. They’ve become the Republican base and today, as you know only too well, they are well-represented by their Republican elected officials.

  125. 125.

    jl

    @Kay: The terms of the loans on farmland have changed through the decades. Back in the days (before Great Depression), the loans were generally callable upon demand, and local bank monopolies severely limited opportunities for refinancing, or upcoming poor crop or bad market conditions often gave a long term incentive to the local bank to grab the land rather than continue the loans

    Farmers lived in fear when economic conditions meant the bank man would show up on some random day, usually just before the crop could be marketed, and call in the loan.

    Back in the day, at least in Central Valley, from what oldsters told me, most farmers were progressive GOPers. Would be interesting to see how the changing status of farmers as owners of a valuable asset, and how that could be protected, and growing government subsidies have changed their political ideology.

  126. 126.

    Mike in DC

    Cohen sentencing memos by 5pm, Manafort no later than midnight. I hope Maddow has a special live show at midnight.

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    @Mnemnosyne

    It would be days – even weeks – before they’d notice a kid or three was gone.

    ;)

    Lumping in Mormons with/as fundamentalist Christians is kind of a weird shuffling of the deck.

  130. 130.

    Gravenstone

    @Mandalay: Walls (and fences) keep his cattle from grazing anywhere and everywhere. He’s just putting his personal views into the larger world view.

  132. 132.

    TriassicSands

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Instead, Loesch argued to focus on homes where “the parenting is absent or subpar.”

    Yes, good parenting requires teaching your 2-year-old how to safely handle and care for the full range of personal firearms from the derringer all the way up to basic anti-tank weapons. One never knows when a child will be called on to take up arms against an oppressive government. Besides, with the ready availability of firearms, it is highly unlikely that any teenager will ever be depressed enough to want to commit suicide. After all, what is more life-affirming than the knowledge that you have to power to kill other living beings at will.

  133. 133.

    NotMax

    @Mike in DC

    On a Friday? She’s out the door and on the way back to Massachusetts for the weekend by 10:05.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  138. 138.

    Jeffro

    @TriassicSands: It’s more than a little terrifying to think about what would be happening right now if there were a halfway competent non-grifting, non-Tweeter in the Oval Office right now.

  139. 139.

    jl

    @TriassicSands: Giving them empowering and joyful instructions with lots of tactical talk on how to take out a bad buy with a gun with their guns, or to commit suicide rushes on a bad guys with guns and they are momentarily unarmed, will be bracing, and improve their mood.

    As will advice on how the SWAT team cops will shoot them down like a rabid dog when they arrive at an incident, and mistake the good guy with the gun or the bad guy with the gun.

    That kind of thing is what good parenting is all about. They’re just talking about good old fashioned 1950s family values.

  140. 140.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @TriassicSands:

    That points to a much bigger, more serious, and likely more persistent problem than Trump — the people who vote for him and support him no matter what he says or does. They’ve become the Republican base

    I grew up in the thick of these people, and I have known all my life that they made up at least a third of the population. Trump didn’t create them, and they were always the Republican base. They did lose their shit when a black man became president, but they’ve always been cruel and bigoted. Mostly they just stopped being willing to endure any compromise, and have been desperate to stop pretending they’re not white supremacists. Trump is the face they found, not the cause of the movement. A surprising number of them are educated and capable of talking in complete sentences, like Mitch McConnell, but they are no less insane and bigoted because they’d still rather use bland language and outright lies.

  144. 144.

    Mandalay

    @TriassicSands:

    the people who vote for him and support him no matter what he says or does

    It will be interesting to see what happens after Trump is gone. Is Trump the pusher who has been giving his followers free crack to get them hooked, so his successor will have to be even more outrageous? Or will they just heave a huge sigh of relief, and fall lovingly into the safe, warm arms of someone like Kasich, Jeb! or Romney?

    I suspect that since Trump has given millions of Americans permission to be openly racist, a moderate is not going to be acceptable. They’re going to want a racist like Steve King, but with Trump’s marketing skills. Bannon is the only person I can think of who comes close to meeting those requirements.

  146. 146.

    Barbara

    I feel like Ammon Bundy is a bit player in a Hieronymous Bosch painting. I appreciate that he could have quietly skulked away without asserting his changed allegiance, but he also feels like a throwback, when outlaws just wanted to be left to their own devices and weren’t trying to recruit others into terrorizing everyone around them who didn’t look or think like them. It was always infuriating but it didn’t feel like the existential threat that Trump does.

  147. 147.

    Schlemazel

    @LuciaMia:
    That is another reason to let go of the anticipation. Just let it happen when it does. We know Mueller does not leak so why listen to people who pretend to know what is about to happen? The investigation has no hard stop time and RMIII has a history of doing things well and doing them right. Let it go, hes got this. No need for all the extra agita

  149. 149.

    sherparick

    I have little theory, actually a big theory, about Trump and the Russiagate Investigation. My theory is that he does not want it to end. He does not want to indicted himself or any immediate family members indicted, and he would like slow it down and obstruct the hell out it, but he does not want to end it. He loves having Mueller and his lawyers as his Big Adversary, who looped and linked with Hillary, Obama and Soroos give him and his cult their 2 minutes of hate everyday. In other words they serve as his “Goldstein.” Everyday, with help of Fox and Rightwing radio the conflict binds the cult to him and also does the thing craves most, makes Trump the number 1 story in the country every, fucking day. To understand Trump, all you have to do is watch the movie “The Sweet Smell of Success.” Trump is Sidney Falco with J.J. Hunsecker’s mean streak and wealth.

  150. 150.

    jl

    @Frankensteinbeck: I think McConnell is a bad example. I don’t think McConnell believes in one thing in this universe except his own influence power and privilege. He was a moderate, and in some ways, even a liberal, GOPer until he had a sudden epiphany after Reagan’s electoral success (on the easiest way to keep, and keep advancing, his political power). McConnell is the purest form of soulless power hungry cynic.

  152. 152.

    NotMax

    @Mandalay

    Pat Buchanan on line 1. (Speak loudly, at his age he doesn’t hear too well.)

    Rand Paul on line 2.

    In fact, all phone lines are lit.

  153. 153.

    Mnemosyne

    @NotMax:

    That’s where the political alliance is, though: fundamentalist Christians courted the Roman Catholics and the Mormons to back the Republicans. Neither the Catholics nor the Mormons entirely fit with the fundies, but they’re useful in shoring up the base.

  154. 154.

    Mnemosyne

    @sherparick:

    I think that Trump’s narcissism led him to believe that he would be able to outsmart and outmaneuver Mueller. You’re right that Mueller is a useful enemy for Trump to bleat about, but I think it included an assumption that Mueller would never be able to catch him, so Trump could say anything he wanted. Whoops!

  155. 155.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @jl:

    He was a moderate, and in some ways, even a liberal, GOPer until he had a sudden epiphany after Reagan’s electoral success (on the easiest way to keep, and keep advancing, his political power).

    McConnell’s biggest change came when a black man was elected president. He turned around and became the most hardcore obstructionist in the entire country, launching this entire clusterfuck we’re in. He is responsible for far more damage than Trump, and declared immediately that he would rather burn the damn country down than let a black man save it. He worked hard and tried repeatedly to rip the safety net away, which is separate from obtaining or keeping power, and separate from funneling money to the plutocrats. His campaigns in Kentucky are cesspools or racism. Make no mistake, just because he has a mild tone and reasonable sounding words, he is no less a deranged racist than any of his constituents. He’s a Kentucky aristocrat.

  156. 156.

    Mandalay

    @NotMax:

    Rand Paul

    Excellent call! An affable racist who can appeal to independents, yet still lie and bullshit at Trumpian levels.

    A kinder, gentler fascist.

  157. 157.

    jl

    @Mnemosyne: So the idea is that Trump could string out Mueller for another two years, and then squash any legal consequences with incompetent unitary executive lawyering (that the SCOTUS reactionaries may have much less use for when Trump is becoming political history) ? And then Trump starts his Trump News Network? While Trump skirts with obstruction of justice crimes and feigns mindless panic?

    That scenarios requires lots of planning and foresight for a guy like Trump. But it is stupid and asinine, so that fits Trump well.

  158. 158.

    Ruckus

    @jl:
    Don’t give McConnell that much credit.
    He is as racist as any of them, he is as conservative as any of them, he is as big of an asshole as any of them.
    Maybe even more than a lot of them.

  159. 159.

    NotMax

    @Frankensteinbeck

    Can’t spell bluegrass without a-s-s.

    ;)

    @Mnemosyne

    If you said detente rather than alliance and evangelical rather than fundamentalist (especially as regards the original onus) I’d be more on board. Don’t want to make a whole mishegas out of it, in any case.

  164. 164.

    jl

    @Frankensteinbeck: @Ruckus: I don’t see how calling McConnell a cynic who is willing to do monstrous things solely for the most selfish of motives, and putting a mild and quiet face on it, is giving him any credit at all. I am just going from what I’ve read of his political history, what his policy positions have been before and after Reagan’s electoral success.

    So, right now, we disagree on his essential nature. Though we do agree that, whatever may be, it is vile.

  166. 166.

    Mnemosyne

    @jl:

    Oh, it’s not even that detailed. It’s I’m way smarter than this idiot Mueller, there’s no way he’s going to be able to scrape up enough evidence to convict me. Look, a squirrel!

    Remember, not only is Trump a toxic narcissist, his wealth means that he has never had to face any consequences for his actions in his entire life. He can’t even picture being held to account for his behavior because it has never happened to him before. He’s always weaseled out of any consequences by declaring bankruptcy or paying his lawyers to make problems go away.

  167. 167.

    lollipopguild

    @Frankensteinbeck: Senator Turtle has become quite rich while in Washington. His values(LOL) are where ever he finds the money. He and newt are people who would be glad to work for the Russians and run the country for Vlad as long as they get their cut.

  168. 168.

    geg6

    @NotMax:

    Did you, by any chance, see Ari Melber’s takedown of him on his show last night? It was at the end of the show and for the last five minutes or so, he just laid out the massive fail that is Paul Ryan and what a fake he is and how the media got suckered by him. It was so good and so much everything I believe about Ryan that I needed a cigarette afterward. I was literally standing up in my sunroom, pumping my fist and screaming, “Tell it! Tell it!” My John thought I’d lost my mind and the pups went and hid in the kitchen.

  170. 170.

    Mnemosyne

    @lollipopguild:

    I agree with Frankensteinbeck — Mitch likes the money and all, but if he had to give up all of that money in order to hurt Black people, he would do it in a heartbeat and call it money well spent.

  173. 173.

    Aleta

    Maybe this has been mentioned. IIrc Bundy was approached and financially supported to go to Malheur by someone associated with the Kock network or similar dark money. (For ex., the people at the American Lands Council.) They saw him as another inroad to, and publicity for, exploiting and seizing our national forests and lands.

    I desperately hope he keeps speaking out in support of migrants and immigrants. I wish he might reveal whatever manipulations he experienced. And I really wish this moment could be used to publicize the Trump admin announcements in the last two weeks that they’re opening huge amounts of public land/forest to fracking and more ocean bed to sounding for oil.

    Couldn’t find the article I read about Bundy being directly approached, but here’s some older info about the despicable groups working to take our land, from a 2016 Think Progress article by Jenny Rowland. The link shows the graph.

    (from The Koch Brothers Are Now Funding The Bundy Land Seizure Agenda FEB 11, 2016 ) The expanded window into the Koch network’s support for the land transfer movement opened on February 3, 2016, when the American Lands Council (ALC) (a group whose goal is to pass state-level legislation demanding that the federal government turn over publicly owned national forests and other public lands) announced that Ivory would be stepping down as its president to join a South Carolina-based group called Federalism in Action (FIA).

    Ivory is joining the FIA’s “Free the Lands” project, a joint initiative between Federalism in Action and The American Lands Council Foundation. This new “Free the Lands” project sits at the confluence of Koch funding, anti-government ideology, and land seizure activists and militants. The graphic below illustrates this web of funding, resources, and staff.
    …
    Federalism in Action was launched a few years ago by two groups: State Policy Network and State Budget Solutions (SBS). … according to IRS filings, State Budget Solutions received money through the Donors Capital Fund, an organization known for cloaking the sources of funding which it distributes, and is sometimes referred to as a Koch “ATM”.

    Federalism in Action is also a member of the State Policy Network, which is the Koch-funded network of more than 50 right-wing think tanks in states across the country.

    Also supporting the Free the Lands Project: the American Lands Council Foundation, the tax-exempt non-profit arm of the American Lands Council.

    I expect the groups may have morphed and metastasized now that Zinke is afoot.

  174. 174.

    catclub

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    McConnell’s biggest change came when a black man was elected president. He turned around and became the most hardcore obstructionist in the entire country, launching this entire clusterfuck we’re in.

    I would still argue that he is mostly just the tool of his caucus, and if they don’t like what he is doing, he is gone. I will note that he is not gone.

  175. 175.

    Sergio Lopez-Luna

    I’m a Federal Employee and him and people like him see us as target practice. Forgive me if I still think he should have been sent to prison for a long time…

  180. 180.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Small Hands is really losing his audience now. Sulky Luzer really doesn’t suite Trump’s act. Maybe that’s why GH Bush, Clinton, GW Bush and Obama all bore political set backs socially instead of whining about the unfairness to the entire nation, eh Spanky?

  182. 182.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I will admit I was never the best catholic before I went full unbeliver, but I modestly ask; when someone is seeking gender reassignment, is that an act of transubstantiation?

  184. 184.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Read up on Dana Loesch’s childhood. Then it will all make sense.

    Nope, not wanting a clue. She’s evil money-grubbing scum. Background to no avail !!

  186. 186.

    HinTN

    @Mandalay:

    My apple trees will never get across
    And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
    He only says, “Good fences make good neighbours.”
    Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
    If I could put a notion in his head:
    “Why do they make good neighbours? Isn’t it
    Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
    Before I built a wall I’d ask to know
    What I was walling in or walling out,
    And to whom I was like to give offence.
    Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
    That wants it down.” I could say “Elves” to him,
    But it’s not elves exactly, and I’d rather
    He said it for himself.

    Elves, indeed.

  188. 188.

    jonas

    Shorter Ammon Bundy: “Eww! Ick! What are all these fleas doing on me? I don’t understand! I spent several years lying down with neo-Nazi militia types and now I’m all covered in this violent, itchy racist shit! What happened?”

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