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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Thursday Morning Open Thread: VROOM!

Thursday Morning Open Thread: VROOM!

by Anne Laurie|  November 18, 20217:22 am| 159 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Open Threads, President Biden, Republican Stupidity, Science & Technology

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Like I said, I’m a car guy. https://t.co/zc5qkQB7bi

— President Biden (@POTUS) November 17, 2021

Which gives me an excuse to highlight a comment from last weekend:

dopey-o

November 13, 2021 at 2:46 pm

@Amir Khalid: Psaki should read a statement from the President: “I’m not sure who this Brandon guy is, but it’s great that he’s got so many people cheering him on.”

Psaki should announce that Biden will invite Brandon to the White House to test drive his electric Corvette the day it arrives.

Picture this photo op: Brandon behind the wheel, Biden in shotgun. Biden slaps the roof and shouts “Let’s go, Brandon!” They burn rubber down the driveway as the SS looks on in horror.

Poor Brandon Brown would probably approve…

… The “Let’s go Brandon” chant dates to an Oct. 2 trackside interview, conducted by an NBC Sports reporter with NASCAR driver Brandon Brown after he won a race. The crowd was chanting “F— Joe Biden,” but the reporter heard the chant as “Let’s go Brandon” and wrongly said on air that the crowd was showing its support for the driver.

Some conservatives latched on to the discrepancy, attributing a conspiratorial motive to the mix-up, without evidence, and citing the brief exchange as an attempt by a media outlet to hide dislike for Biden. Greg Hughes, a spokesman for NBC Sports, declined to comment…

As a lot of folks know, I’m a car guy. I’ve gotten a chance to drive some pretty incredible vehicles over the years, but I never could have imagined ones like the electric vehicle I took for a spin today.

The future is electric – and it will be made right here in America. pic.twitter.com/foX0ydM6mo

— President Biden (@POTUS) November 18, 2021

President Biden climbed behind the wheel of an electric Hummer in a test drive to tout billions in electric vehicle investment https://t.co/1uSaGXKm2K pic.twitter.com/WgLcide7Ue

— Reuters (@Reuters) November 18, 2021

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Previous Post: « COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Wednesday / Thursday, Nov. 17-18
Next Post: Failed State Update (Open Thread) »

Reader Interactions

159Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    November 18, 2021 at 7:29 am

    C-Span brings us anime’s response to Gosar (starts at :20).

  2. 2.

    Winston

    November 18, 2021 at 7:32 am

    Wellf ? Did someone threaten Gosar?

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    November 18, 2021 at 7:33 am

    Good Morning Everyone ???

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    November 18, 2021 at 7:33 am

    I ??? that 46 is such a car junkie ?

  5. 5.

    Spanky

    November 18, 2021 at 7:37 am

    There is no “VROOM!” with EVs. Just sayin’.

  6. 6.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 7:47 am

    One of my favourite Christmas carols has always been the Ukrainian “Carol of the Bells.” I’ve heard it covered well and I’ve heard it covered badly, but I’ve always loved it regardless.

    That may be changing. Since the first of the month there has been a barrage of commercial jingles to the “CotB” melody for at least four, and possibly five, different products. In the past hour alone I’ve heard one for Cadillac, one for IHOP, and one for an eye drop. Just bizarre, and getting very annoying. It’s sad when something you love turns into something cringe.

  7. 7.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 18, 2021 at 7:49 am

    Is this photo op set up to evoke comparisons to TFG in the truck? Because it sure does. I’m not sure I like that, given how much fun I made of TFG

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    November 18, 2021 at 7:49 am

    Not exactly a ride within reach of most. And who the bloody hell needs a 1000 horsepower vehicle?

    The Hummer EV will go on sale in fall, 2021, and at first only the most expensive Edition 1 model* will be available; less expensive trims** will come into the picture starting in 2022.
    [snip]
    For now, the only powertrain available in the Hummer EV is a setup with three electric motors that makes 1000 horsepower.… Source

    *estimated MSRP: $112,595
    **estimated least expensive model (manufacture TBA): $79,995
    .

  9. 9.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    November 18, 2021 at 7:50 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning! ?

  10. 10.

    debbie

    November 18, 2021 at 7:51 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I had that very same thought! At least Joe’s going somewhere.

    By the way, I took your advice about freezing black raspberries and had some last night. Five months frozen, but still delish. Thanks again!

  11. 11.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 18, 2021 at 7:51 am

    The “Let’s go Brandon” chant dates to an Oct. 2 trackside interview, conducted by an NBC Sports reporter with NASCAR driver Brandon Brown after he won a race. The crowd was chanting “F— Joe Biden,” but the reporter heard the chant as “Let’s go Brandon” and wrongly said on air that the crowd was showing its support for the driver.

    Damn, the press and the Right are the prefect fusion of stupidity. I am going to bet the crowd wasn’t even chanting fuck Biden.

  12. 12.

    John S.

    November 18, 2021 at 7:52 am

    I guess Republican outrage over violent acts depicted against politicians is limited to Kathy Griffin.

  13. 13.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 7:53 am

    The electric Hummer is stupid and hardly environmentally benign, but I do understand the rationale of promoting the category.

    (I’ve seen a lot of “electric cars are evil because they are still cars” takes, which seems like making the perfect the enemy of the good. It’s certainly true that electric cars are no substitute for transit, and there’s a danger of thinking that they are. But Biden is also a train guy.

    (There’s also “electric cars are actually WORSE than regular cars because blah blah, life-cycle argument,” which as far as I can tell is actually incorrect–multiple organizations have done the math here and it’s not true unless you live in the dwindling areas where electricity is entirely coal-generated.)

  14. 14.

    NotMax

    November 18, 2021 at 7:54 am

    While not as easy as it ought to be, something to squirrel away in the arsenal of possible holiday gifting.

    How to Give Netflix, Hulu, and Other Streaming Services As Gifts.

  15. 15.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 18, 2021 at 7:54 am

    Actually Biden’s promotion of electric cars likely is what the Nascar fan bois are pissed about since the acceleration and horsepower on the new electric cars make these guys SUV penis extenders look weak and flaccid.

  16. 16.

    Geo Wilcox

    November 18, 2021 at 7:55 am

    Interesting article about Tesla, Ford, and GM.
    Opening sentence is this:
    “Forget that Elon Musk is crazy, forget the Wall Street valuations, GM or Ford must merge with Tesla or be permanently left behind, on the way to the scrap heap.”
    https://ritholtz.com/2021/11/tesla-gm-ford/

  17. 17.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 18, 2021 at 7:56 am

    @debbie: Oh good. I miss that line of raspberry bushes in our Michigan yard.

  18. 18.

    Spanky

    November 18, 2021 at 8:03 am

    @Geo Wilcox: An opening sentence like that just makes me shake my head and skip right past it, because that sentence is horseshit.

  19. 19.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 8:04 am

    @Geo Wilcox:

    As for the self-driving “problem,” don’t you get it? It’s not the accidents/injuries/deaths, this is how it works in software, it takes a while to get it right. But when you do… Come on, were you computing in the eighties? The software was buggy, constantly improved, and then the companies got it right.

    What? No they didn’t, what is he talking about? I’m in software myself. They never got it right. Software is never right. What they do is add new capabilities that are as buggy as the old ones were, and often the new capabilities aren’t actually necessary but are driven by the need for market differentiation. I do not buy that Tesla’s software is superior in some way that makes them an untouchable first mover.

  20. 20.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    November 18, 2021 at 8:05 am

    @NotMax:  … 1000 horsepower

    Good grief! I wonder what that truck weighs, that they need 1000 hp, even for hauling and towing?

    Kind of related, does anyone have the low down on vehicle donation programs? We are trying to reduce our herd from 3 to 2 and just traded one car for a newish truck, but the dealer was not interested in taking our old truck as well. Several charities we support have vehicle donation programs but it seems like there were reports a while back that sometimes the charitable organizations don’t actually get much out of that. Or maybe it was just that people donating inflate the vehicle value. I don’t remember. Anyway, is this a legitimate way to help out or is some third party going to get most of the money?

  21. 21.

    rikyrah

    November 18, 2021 at 8:05 am

    ??????

     

    THEE Terry Watkins Jr. ??⚖️ (@TerryWatkinsJr1) tweeted at 0:25 PM on Wed, Nov 17, 2021:
    You can’t make core voter demands if you spent 2 years calling him a
    -rapist
    -neoliberal corporate shill
    -war criminal
    -senile relic

    And his VP a
    -cop
    -token
    -overly ambitious
    -mass incarcerator

    No, you don’t get a seat at the table. Be grateful they acknowledge you exist.
    (https://twitter.com/TerryWatkinsJr1/status/1461037806453772290?t=NHiodo4sXMMtp7bC-Vif6A&s=03)

  22. 22.

    JMG

    November 18, 2021 at 8:09 am

    Lefsetz’s takes are always grandiose no matter the subject. I can only note that among my fellow retired golf partners, it wasn’t until Ford started hyping the electric F-150 pickup that the subject of EVs was discussed at all (lots of pickups on Cape Cod because lots of people own boats, too).

  23. 23.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 8:09 am

    @NotMax: I’ve been planning on going electric when I need to replace my 2004 diesel Jetta wagon.  But the lack of car payments is so nice and the thought of spending $40-60k on a new vehicle is scary.  Plus the house wiring upgrades…

    So, I’ve been remembering Martin’s comments about his ebike and thinking maybe that makes much more sense for my 11 mile (one way) commute (at least in good weather and not in the dark).  $2k would probably work.  But will I be willing to drag a 60-75 pound bike up stairs if necessary??

    Where’s the electric Model T that the world needs??  The Nissan Leaf was close, but they seem to have no interest in its continued development…  :-(

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  24. 24.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    November 18, 2021 at 8:11 am

    “Judge Schroeder, who I do not support, is being maliciously maligned by the forces of liberalism despite his 38 years on the bench just because he is openly displaying empathy for Kyle Rittenhouse, who I also don’t support.”

    – by Glenn Greenwald

  25. 25.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 8:15 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: TV crowds are obnoxious.  There were frat boys yelling FTFY and stuff about JLo at ARod during Fox’s baseball playoff coverage.  The producers know this will happen, but they don’t care.  And they make up stories about what the crowd is yelling so that they don’t get fined by the FCC.

    Film at 11.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  26. 26.

    Spanky

    November 18, 2021 at 8:15 am

    @Another Scott: Beware that the Jetta may never wear out. My 2003 diesel was done in not by a mechanical problem, but by a clogged door drain that filled the floorboards with water when it rained, and the mildew got to me. I didn’t find out about the cause until after I had sold it. It was still running strong after 367,000 miles. And the original clutch.

  27. 27.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 18, 2021 at 8:18 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I need to point out that that song was written for New Year’s, not Christmas. It is what is called a “shchedrivka.” I know it has been repurposed and I am swimming upstream, but I think you might appreciate the knowledge.

  28. 28.

    Betty

    November 18, 2021 at 8:19 am

    @Spanky: I heard they looking for a way to add it somehow.

  29. 29.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 8:23 am

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: We’ve given cars to Goodwill and Melwood (a group that places disabled folks in jobs).  They auction them off, so there’s nothing hinky about the tax value.  ($900 for a Corolla with 203,000 miles that needed a new clutch.)  It’s pretty painless.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  30. 30.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 18, 2021 at 8:23 am

    The Harvard University historian Tiya Miles won the National Book award for non-fiction for All That She Carried. For that book, Miles tracked down the provenance of Ashley’s Sack: a piece of cloth from the mid-1800s embroidered with a message about the slave sale of a nine-year-old girl.

    “My great grandmother Rose, mother of Ashley, gave her this sack when she was sold at age nine, in South Carolina,” the embroidery reads.

    “It held a tattered dress, three handfuls of pecans, a braid of Rose’s hair. Told her, It be filled with my Love always. She never saw her again. Ashley is my grandmother. Ruth Middleton, 1921.”

    The sack is now housed in the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington DC.

    Look for it on a school library shelf near you.

  31. 31.

    Ken

    November 18, 2021 at 8:25 am

    @Matt McIrvin: often the new [software] capabilities aren’t actually necessary but are driven by the need for market differentiation

    Then there’s the software that has neither new capabilities nor market-differentiating features; just a rearrangement of the UI….

    In completely unrelated news, have you tried Windows 11 yet?

  32. 32.

    gvg

    November 18, 2021 at 8:26 am

    @NotMax: ​
     Changing technologies is expensive at the beginning and the first products are always for the rich. I have seen a bunch of new things become common and cheap. It takes awhile, but not that long overall.
    I remember when ordinary handheld calculators were new and expensive. My dad worked for a company developing them and used to bring then home to show off, when my friends had never seen one. Desktop computers, cell phones, big screen TV’s, answering machines, fax machines and other things were all very pricy at the beginning, and from what I have read so were gas cars way back. This will be the pattern for a little while, then it will explode and be everything. Also notice how many different new electric vehicles keep getting in the news. There is a lot going on there, and companies are learning from each other and jostling for positions.

  33. 33.

    Nelle

    November 18, 2021 at 8:26 am

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: Our 2004 Corolla went toes up when the clutch went out last Feb.  We donated it because we just needed it gone.  Turns out that the nonprofit was one of the salesman’s favorites and he finagled a bit more off the “new” used cars, sadly not a stick shift.  All done quickly and before the great car shortage.  I didn’t bother with the details.

    Once, when moving overseas, we donated a used car to the domestic violence shelter, figuring someone taking shelter might need it.  But that one ran.

  34. 34.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 8:26 am

    I think the announcers at Talledega knew what the crowd was chanting and were playing it off with the quip, “They’re chanting, ‘lets go Brandon!’ ” At least, that is what was reported at the time..

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 18, 2021 at 8:29 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Malinda Lo’s LAST NIGHT AT THE TELEGRAPH CLUB won in the YA category. It’s LGBTQ friendly.

  36. 36.

    Eunicecycle

    November 18, 2021 at 8:29 am

    @White & Gold Purgatorian: If it is a charity you already support, I would say go for it. They may be using a third-party to handle the transaction but some charities have pretty sophisticated operations. You can deduct up to $500 on your taxes but if you want to take more than that you have to wait until the truck is sold and use that amount. Yes the IRS caught up with the cheaters. I’ve been retired from nonprofit work for 3 years but I did a quick search and it looks like the rules are still the same.

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    November 18, 2021 at 8:36 am

    @debbie: Very funny!

  38. 38.

    narya

    November 18, 2021 at 8:38 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Except that (a) Biden actually DRIVES it (which TFG did/could not do) and (b) Biden is genuinely a Car Guy.

  39. 39.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 8:39 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    You’re right if you’re referring to the Ukrainian folk song and associated lore about New Year’s, the tune of which was repurposed as Shchedryk in 1914. Ukrainian-American composer Peter Wilhousky turned it into a (secular) Christmas song in 1936, and someone else gave it more Nativity-oriented lyrics in 1947. Not counting all the commercial jingles, I think there are three or four reasonably well-known sets of English words. It is a hardy perennial, and for good reason. I just don’t care to hear it as an ad for pancakes or a balm for dry eyes.

  40. 40.

    Fair Economist

    November 18, 2021 at 8:40 am

    @Another Scott: Building a new car generates a lot of carbon so it doesn’t make sense to replace a functional gas car unless you drive lots of miles, and it sounds like you don’t. Prices of electrics will continue to drop and range to stretch so waiting will get you a better car.

    It’s true that a lot of people don’t need even 200 miles of range but Americans are obsessed with range, so we will probably never see any more short range electrics

  41. 41.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    November 18, 2021 at 8:40 am

    @Another Scott:  Thanks. That is good to hear. We have no illusions that our 25 year old Ranger is worth a lot, but it still runs well and should bring in something. There was a time we might have donated it to public radio, but now we are thinking of either the local animal shelter or the spay and neuter society.

  42. 42.

    Ken

    November 18, 2021 at 8:42 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Right, keep the traditional lyrics. Ding! fries are done, Ding! fries are done…

    (And the HPLHS did a wonderful four-part choral version as part of their solstice album.)

  43. 43.

    Fair Economist

    November 18, 2021 at 8:46 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Carol of the Bells is the one Christmas song I don’t get sick of. Really a great piece; kudos to the anonymous Ukrainian songwriters. Fortunately I watch little enough TV that I won’t be driven nuts by all those CotB jingles.

  44. 44.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 8:46 am

    @Spanky: Zooks!  I was very hard on my first clutch – too traumatized by it stalling a couple of times when it was new.  Only got about 90,000 miles out of it.  :-(. I think I’m easier on the replacement, but time will tell!  The car just rolled over 160,000 and is generally fine but the clearcoat is getting cloudy and it could use new struts and I don’t really want to spend thousands on it at 180,000 for a new belt, etc.  But I don’t see anything comparable these days that gets ~45 mpg commuting that doesn’t cost a lot more than I want to spend.  And it takes a lot of carbon to make a new vehicle of any sort…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  45. 45.

    VOR

    November 18, 2021 at 8:46 am

    @JMG: Some people question how serious the legacy automakers are about switching to battery electric vehicles (BEVs) like the electric Hummer driven by 46. For example, Ford indeed made a big deal about the electric F-150 Lightning, but was only planning to make 40k the first year. Last I heard, about a month ago, they had 250k reservations – a 6 year backlog. The Cadillac Lyriq BEV pre-order sold out in 15 minutes because Cadillac is planning low production volumes. Tesla, for all their faults, is actually serious about mass production of BEVs.

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    November 18, 2021 at 8:48 am

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Paraphrase of a snatch of dialogue from The Stunt Man:

    “At selling douche powder, it’s fabulous; dog food?…I’m not sure it’s sincere.”

    :)

  47. 47.

    p.a.

    November 18, 2021 at 8:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Blue jurisdictions only if trends continue.

  48. 48.

    p.a.

    November 18, 2021 at 8:51 am

    @Eunicecycle: When I last donated, 2010, had to paper file, not e-file.  Almost certainly has changed, but check to be sure folks.

  49. 49.

    Starfish

    November 18, 2021 at 8:51 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Actually, there is some conflict between the car racing community and the EPA. There were some rumors around 2016 that Snopes has marked mostly false, but there seem to be more recent enforcement efforts.

  50. 50.

    Starfish

    November 18, 2021 at 8:53 am

    @Matt McIrvin: “They can brick your car at any time” is not a feature.

  51. 51.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 18, 2021 at 8:54 am

    @VOR: I suspect that if the legacy carmakers see money in EVs, they will make them.

  52. 52.

    p.a.

    November 18, 2021 at 8:55 am

    @Another Scott: Make the repairs and order this:

     

    Chemical Guys AIR_101_16 New Car Smell Premium Air Freshener and Odor Eliminator (16 Oz)

    Visit the Chemical Guys Store

  53. 53.

    Starfish

    November 18, 2021 at 8:56 am

    @Another Scott: Are you in Maryland? The janitorial workers at NASA Goddard were Melwood.

  54. 54.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 8:58 am

    @VOR: Manufacturers may be taking the current lack of public charging facilities into account. The intention may be to build many more EVs once the infrastru ture for them improves. Manufacturers of delivery vehicles seem to have ambitious production plans. These vehicles are practical already for companies operating delivery fleets, like UPS and Amazon.

  55. 55.

    Percysowner

    November 18, 2021 at 9:00 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Here is Alexandra Petri on Christmas Carols

    A ranking of 100 — yes, 100 — Christmas songs

  56. 56.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 9:04 am

    @Starfish: In NoVA, work in DC.  Melwood is in a lot of places.  ;-)

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  57. 57.

    Hoodie

    November 18, 2021 at 9:04 am

    @NotMax: The power is to get early adopters to buy it., e.g.,   Tesla’s first vehicle was an impractical 2-seat sports car.   This lets you price it so you’re not losing money and still staying in the EV game and further develop all the related tech.  This actually may be a smart play by GM in comparison to the hype about the F150 Lightning, which Ford probably cannot produce in sufficient volume at this point and thus might end up being a disappointment.  Tesla does not have a truck yet and it’s Cybertruck might be too weird for most truck buyers, so that’s a market segment GM might be able to exploit at the high end using the Hummer.   I imagine that GM power train is really destined for larger commercial vehicles, like box trucks or even tractor/trailer rigs.  However, that market is still probably several years away, particularly with current issues with battery availability and the lack of sufficient charging infrastructure.  The Hummer is a high-margin product that might help GM remain relevant in EVs.

  58. 58.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 18, 2021 at 9:05 am

    @Another Scott: yes, this and Biden would attract that crowds ire, not because of politics, because electric cars are going to kill their inane”sport” NASCAR, the golfing of automobile racing.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 9:06 am

    @VOR: Every one of the big car companies is going electric, but it takes a long time to ramp up production.  A clean sheet of paper new car takes around 10 years.  The electric changeover has a similar timeline.

    It’s coming.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  60. 60.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 18, 2021 at 9:08 am

    @Percysowner: OzarkHillbilly’s ranking of the best 100 -yes, 100- Xmas songs:

    They all suck.

  61. 61.

    Soprano2

    November 18, 2021 at 9:11 am

    I’m sure you’ve all heard about the 20-year-old rapist in New York who got 8 years of probation after the judge “prayed” about the right sentence and decided prison wasn’t the right call for a 20-year-old who raped four teenagers (he was 17 when the crimes happened). Turns out it’s even worse than that, because there are allegations that his mother, stepfather and a family friend actually helped “groom” these young women for the rapist! Holy cow…..

  62. 62.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 18, 2021 at 9:16 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes, I was talking about the Leontovych original version.

  63. 63.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 9:17 am

    @Ken:

    The Solstice version is new to me. Wonderful, thank you!!

  64. 64.

    geg6

    November 18, 2021 at 9:17 am

    @Geminid:

    I agree.  Even in this horrible Trumpist backwater that I live in, you are seeing more electrics and I believe there will be a big bump in that when there are more than 2 charging stations in the entire county.  And I’ve seen electric Amazon delivery vans on campus and around town.  I know I read an article many months ago about Amazon planning a big investment in an electric fleet.

  65. 65.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 18, 2021 at 9:18 am

    @Soprano2: his mother, stepfather and a family friend actually helped “groom” these young women for the rapist! Holy cow…..

    All three have been charged with… wait for it… Misdemeanors.

    JJ posted up about this over at OTB saying, “So, three middle-aged adults not only supplied a “party house” for a teenaged boy but helped drug his victims? And they were allowed to plead to misdemeanor charges after multiple rapes?”

    I commented that,

    Boys will be boys, James. Especially rich white ones. Add in the misdemeanor charges against the adults for aiding and abetting the youngster, and I detect a strong whiff of people who know people. I don’t know much about Niagara County but my time in Crawford Co taught me a lot about how justice can get perverted in small town/county courts.

    (just out of curiosity, I compared the populations of the 2 counties. Niagara is about 7 times larger. Still the stench of small town connections is strong here. Maybe I’m just prejudiced)

  66. 66.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 18, 2021 at 9:21 am

    @rikyrah: And after voting no on a historic infrastructure bill they like to pretend that they are the ones who who care about Biden’s agenda.

  67. 67.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 9:22 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: NASCAR has been declining in popularity for a decade and a half. Bristol Motor speedway has been removing seating; they were up to a capacity of 100,000 at one point.

    The Great Recession hit the industry hard, but even before that broadcasters lost money on NASCAR racing. The “sport” may stick around, but at the level of popular interest it had going into the 1980’s.

  68. 68.

    debbie

    November 18, 2021 at 9:24 am

    @Soprano2:

    Time to revisit judicial discretion. ?

  69. 69.

    Kristine

    November 18, 2021 at 9:25 am

    Saw my first “F*ck you, Brandon” flag when I picked up Gaby from the groomer’s last week. Southern WI, near the IL border. Farm country. Tres Trumpy .

    Pretty sure next car will be electric, but my 2002 Forester has 172k and I’m not giving it up until I have to.

  70. 70.

    L85NJGT

    November 18, 2021 at 9:35 am

    Vehicle Olestra.

  71. 71.

    gene108

    November 18, 2021 at 9:35 am

    @Another Scott:

    And it takes a lot of carbon to make a new vehicle of any sort…

    Unless you’re getting a custom built car, the ones on the dealer’s lot are already build. The pollution required to build is a sunk cost, whether or not someone buys it.

    I feel like I’m missing your point.

  72. 72.

    Anonymous At Work

    November 18, 2021 at 9:40 am

    EVs makers are adding external noise generation not for Car Guys (capitalized; it’s a complete culture) to hear but for pedestrians to hear and react.  Until you’ve been around multiple EVs, you never realize how much you use your hearing to detect and track cars.
    The reason NASCAR techs and drivers want noise is because they know what their car sounds like when it is running at peak and, conversely, when there’s a problem with an indication of what that problem could be.

  73. 73.

    jeffreyw

    November 18, 2021 at 9:42 am

    This made my morning:https://t.co/Oj55nf5sIkph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn— Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos (@TomLevenson) November 18, 2021

    Something for Subaru Dianne via our own Tom L.

  74. 74.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 18, 2021 at 9:47 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I know many a musician who says “if I never have to play Pachelbel’s Canon again, that will be too soon”

    Disclosure: I like to play the Bach Toccata in D for Halloween. I am not an organist, so I cosplay one for that piece and really ham it up. I think actually organists are pretty sick of it.​

    @jeffreyw: ​ ROFL. I started laughing just on seeing the title.

    That was excellent, but I’m disappointed that they didn’t actually sing any lyrics in the Old Language.​

  75. 75.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 9:48 am

    @Geminid: One reason broadcasters have soured on carrying NASCAR races is that they can’t be run in the rain. Some races get rain delayed and finish at midnight. Others get postponed until Monday and advertisers want rebates. There are also a lot of cultural reasons for NASCAR’s declining popularity, especially among young people.

  76. 76.

    narya

    November 18, 2021 at 9:54 am

    @Anonymous At Work: I’ve seen some Formula E races on TV, and it’s weird to have so little sound!

  77. 77.

    There go two miscreants

    November 18, 2021 at 10:01 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
    “Stench” is a good word that doesn’t get enough use! Has even better negative vibes than “stink”.

  78. 78.

    Edmund Dantes

    November 18, 2021 at 10:03 am

    @Soprano2: and was given the 8 years probation after he was given an interim 2 years probation before sentencing. Which he violated the conditions of.

  79. 79.

    Edmund Dantes

    November 18, 2021 at 10:05 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: https://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM

     

    you can’t escape it. It follows you!!!

  80. 80.

    Roger Moore

    November 18, 2021 at 10:06 am

    @Fair Economist: 

    It’s true that a lot of people don’t need even 200 miles of range but Americans are obsessed with range, so we will probably never see any more short range electrics

    Most people don’t drive more than 200 miles regularly, but they do occasionally. It might make sense to save some money on the car by compromising on range and renting a car with longer range when you need it, but only if the longer range is something you really don’t need very often. Otherwise, the rentals will add up.

  81. 81.

    geg6

    November 18, 2021 at 10:07 am

    I am told that there was a whole category about Pittsburgh on Jeopardy! last evening. Bummed I missed it. From what I saw, too easy. But then, I’m a born and raised Yinzer who went to undergrad in the city. Of course, I’d kill it. I’m interested to know how well the contestants did with it, though.

  82. 82.

    Anonymous At Work

    November 18, 2021 at 10:11 am

    @narya: While I can appreciate them from a sociologists/anthropologist perspective, why does anyone watch televised car races?  I mean, watching to see if there’s any huge crashes might be a reason but it’s not like it happens every race.

  83. 83.

    Mike in NC

    November 18, 2021 at 10:14 am

    We have a wingnut neighbor with a history of falling asleep at the wheel. A few years ago he did that and his Hummer was totaled after it went into a ditch.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    November 18, 2021 at 10:16 am

    Lori Higgins
    @LoriAHiggins
    ·14h
    Just spent some time reading what Detroit parents (you know, the ones affected) have to say about the decision to go remote for three days in December. Lots of interesting debate that is not even remotely similar to what people who don’t live in Detroit are saying on this app.

    I’ve said this before, but it’s really essential to recognize that there are +14,000 school districts in the United States and they are all different. All thru the pandemic, AA parents were much more supportive of covid mitigation efforts in schools- including closures- than white parents were.
    People really can’t parachute into public schools (to start and promote a CRT panic) and then follow that sloppy shit up with broad assumptions about what “parents” want.
    Public schools are complicated. If you’re in media and you never bothered with them before you are going to have to get some understanding of the subject before jumping in.

  85. 85.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 18, 2021 at 10:21 am

    @Anonymous At Work: I was never a sports fan in the sense of regularly watching any kind of games. And yet.

    As a kid, I’m going to say as a teenager, when channel surfing on weekends in the days of 3 networks, I would occasionally find Wide World Of Sports, and happily watch a couple of hours of all kinds of crazy sports. My fondest memories of that show are the lumberjack competitions. But also lots and lots of car racing, and the commentator was always Jackie Stewart, a Scotsman with an annoying piercingly high voice.

    I don’t remember especially being excited when WWOS had auto racing (in fact I remember thinking “oh no, not another car race”), but nor do I remember turning the TV off. I’d watch it and listen to Stewart and do my best to follow along and get into the competition.

    I don’t know what that says about me or about sports. Nothing good I’m sure.

  86. 86.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 18, 2021 at 10:23 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    this is how it works in software, it takes a while to get it right.

    HA HA HA HA sorry, kiddo.  Self-driving is machine learning, and machine learning is always buggy.  It is built into the concept.  You can get some fantastic results out of machine learning, and then it’s on the road and people are dying because who the frog would think to test that it thinks wooden farm fences are middle lane lines?  We are nowhere near self-driving cars.

    I do not buy that Tesla’s software is superior in some way

    Word from disgruntled employees is that Tesla software is a garbage nightmare because Musk insists on getting involved.  The guy is only good at buying things and getting government funding.

  87. 87.

    kindness

    November 18, 2021 at 10:23 am

    I thought GM sold the Hummer division to a Chinese conglomerate a few years ago.  Those beasts are so heavy I can’t imagine an electric one could go more than  1 or 200 miles on a charge.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 10:23 am

    @gene108: Car dealers won’t order more cars if they have ones on the lot that won’t move.  Consumer choice matters – eventually.

    I’m not naive enough to think that reducing the 10-20 tons of CO2 that I personally help emit every year will save the world.  But if all of us do what we can, it will help.  And I’m in a financial position to do more, so I should.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    stinger

    November 18, 2021 at 10:24 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sorry to hear this.

  90. 90.

    stinger

    November 18, 2021 at 10:25 am

    @NotMax: Yeah, I don’t really love the promotion of civilian Hummers.

  91. 91.

    Gloomyjim

    November 18, 2021 at 10:26 am

    @Another Scott:

    I got a 2020 Nissan Kicks that the computer thingy is telling me I am averaging 38.6mpg with best trip at 49.5mpg. Cost about $20000 for midrange model and came with really neat sensor package standard on all models.

  92. 92.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 10:29 am

    @geg6:

    It’s in the Double Jeopardy section, which starts at 9:30. Let us know how how you do!

    https://youtu.be/8cvWoE6mIP0

  93. 93.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @Anonymous At Work: My question would be, why does anyone attend a car race (especially a road race) in person??  The views are so much better on TV.

    I don’t watch a lot, but seeing a master (like Schumacher or Senna or Hamilton) in a F1 race can be fascinating.  They work hard!!  A video of a run on the Isle of Man TT circuit really gets the heart pumping (watch his heart rate – upper left corner).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  94. 94.

    cain

    November 18, 2021 at 10:39 am

    @Matt McIrvin: As a software engineer, I concur. We tend all get frightened how much we rely on software especially in life and death situations.

    Speaking of Tesla, I was involved in a Tesla collision. Some brown guy (like me) came around the bend while trying to overtake a few cars and ran right into me. Nobody was hurt.

    He mumbled something about never trusting auto-pilot. :-) Trusting to auto-pilot is definitely peak nuts.

  95. 95.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 10:41 am

    @Another Scott: I remember looking at a Leaf when we were shopping for my wife’s car, and getting this really freaked-out reaction from the salesman who clearly DID NOT want us to buy that car, and started talking it down. It was as if Nissan was forcing them to put it on display, but they really didn’t want to sell Leafs and he wasn’t going to get a commission for it.

    It makes sense–dealerships make most of their profit on service and electric cars require much less of it. They’re fine with hybrids, but they don’t want you to buy anything that doesn’t require regular oil changes. It’s why Tesla went the direct-sales route in the face of state regulations often making it illegal.

  96. 96.

    geg6

    November 18, 2021 at 10:44 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
     
    Super easy questions if you know the city even just a little bit.

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @Gloomyjim: Thanks for the pointer.  Looks interesting.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 10:47 am

    @geg6:

    i got three of them without even thinking, and I’ve been to P’burgh only once in my life and that was maybe 20 years ago.

  99. 99.

    raven

    November 18, 2021 at 10:47 am

    I’ve been screwing around with the windshield wipers on my 66 chevy truck for almost two months. The wiper motor bolts into a housing on the firewall and the housing was totally rusted. I found one online at a chevy-gmc boneyard in Arizona and they cut it out and sent it to me. Then a body&fender dude I know welded the new(er) bracket in and his mechanic buddy set it all up. You know when the wipers fall back to the bottom of the windshield when you turn them off? That’s called the “park” position and there are indexing marks on the motor housing and arms that have to line up for the wipers to park! Anyway now I have it back together and have to wait to get a set of universals wiper arms so I can get it up and running!

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 10:48 am

    @cain: My new Sonata has some simple Autopilot-y features and I definitely don’t trust them. To be fair, it also actively nags you if you take your hands off the wheel, to dissuade you from just letting it steer. I think the feature switches off if you let go for long enough.

    I didn’t buy the top-end model that actually hooks the car’s satnav into it so that it will automatically steer you onto exit ramps (mine has no satnav, just the ability to mirror my phone’s Google Maps on the dashboard, which seems sensible since that seems more likely to stay up-to-date than anything integrated into the car). Mine just has the ability to essentially adjust the steering wheel’s neutral point to follow the lane on highways, which it does by optically sensing the lane markings. But it could never be more than a marginal convenience–it assumes you can trust the lane markings to be detectable enough on New England roads, which… no.

    It’s also got all this radar-based collision-avoidance-assistance stuff, which will ring warning alarms and can automatically maintain car spacing under cruise control. But I discovered by experience that if it’s really raining buckets, the rain can obstruct the radar enough that the system shuts itself off (with a warning indicator).

    It all makes me wonder whether the risk/benefit is positive. I do like that it’ll ring a warning bell when some asshole blows past you from behind while you’re trying to change lanes, but none of it can really be trusted.

  101. 101.

    narya

    November 18, 2021 at 10:48 am

    @Anonymous At Work: I follow IndyCar and F1. I don’t necessarily watch every single second of it, and I really cannot be bothered with the pre-race stuff, but I do enjoy seeing a particularly skillful pass, or other aspects of the strategy, and I pay attention to who’s driving. I’ve been to multiple IndyCar races, and it’s true that live is a different experience, but I also do enjoy the televised races.

  102. 102.

    narya

    November 18, 2021 at 10:51 am

    @Another Scott: Hamilton’s drive in Brazil was quite the thing!

  103. 103.

    geg6

    November 18, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
     
    Can you believe I’ve never ridden the Duquesne Incline? I’ve always ridden the other, the Monongahela Incline, because it’s at Station Square, which is closer to the places I usually go and also closer to the T, which takes you across the river and into the downtown area. Very convenient and inexpensive parking, which cannot be said about downtown parking.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 18, 2021 at 10:58 am

    Joe Concha  @JoeConchaTV
    Ron DeSantis holding a press conference in Brandon, FL at Brandon Honda.

  105. 105.

    Just Chuck

    November 18, 2021 at 10:58 am

    @narya: Big difference between F1 and cars that only ever turn left.

  106. 106.

    Kristine

    November 18, 2021 at 11:01 am

    @jeffreyw: The You Tube links led me to Eldritch Jolene.

    My holiday playlist is set.

  107. 107.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 11:03 am

    Query: Would it be possible for Chris Cillizza to just FOAD? Merely asking. Not even prompted by a particular “quote ‘analysis’ unquote,” just in general.

  108. 108.

    West of the Rockies

    November 18, 2021 at 11:03 am

    I do not understand how Republicans can loathe Biden, a man with humility, kindness, enthusiasm, and strength.

    But they adore Trump, who quite objectively is greedy, dishonest, a bully who constantly punches down but crumbles before Putin, and is incompetent.

  109. 109.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 18, 2021 at 11:05 am

    @geg6:

    I must say, if I ever find myself in or near Pittsburgh, I’m going to let you know well in advance so you can give me a proper tour of the city.

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 11:07 am

    @raven: Exciting!  :-)

    My dad’s ’55 Chevy had a vacuum-operated wiper motor.  Made things exciting going up hill in a rain storm!

    Hemmings.com.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    Soprano2

    November 18, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Well, singers are used to singing Christmas music in September! Sadly, although my choir is having a concert on December 3rd, there is no Christmas concert this year. Maybe next year…..

  112. 112.

    Soprano2

    November 18, 2021 at 11:10 am

    @Edmund Dantes: I saw that! How can the judge give only probation to someone who has already violated their probation? Talk about white privilege……

  113. 113.

    raven

    November 18, 2021 at 11:11 am

    @Another Scott: Yep, they were awful!

  114. 114.

    Cameron

    November 18, 2021 at 11:13 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No mandates in Florida!  It’s going to be an interesting winter.  Big holidays, lots of snowbirds, college revelers – what could possibly go wrong?

  115. 115.

    cain

    November 18, 2021 at 11:16 am

    @Hoodie:

    I was an early adopter. My Tesla was one of the first 500 in Portland. It was a great time because it was a bunch of enthusiasts who really enjoyed the car.

    Of course, now it is filled with entitled assholes and brand conscious whores. But till that time we had a nice little auto club going and we had a great report with the company.

  116. 116.

    Jager

    November 18, 2021 at 11:20 am

    Bob Lutz (retired CEO of GM, Chrysler, and Ford) has said, ( I’m paraphrasing) Musk never wanted to be an auto manufacturer. He wants to be in the energy business. Building cars is hard, he’s not interested in that. He wanted to make some noise and get a major manufacturer to want to buy him out.

    From the experience of Tesla owners

    If you own a Tesla and get into a fender bender, you have to wait months for parts, the company doesn’t have much on hand. If you don’t have the audio system on, you hear massive amounts of road noise, body creaks, etc. To adjust the seats you have to go to the screen, the same thing to lock the doors. The car is a tech bro’s wet dream and a pain in the ass for a daily driver.

    A Porsche electric car set a record at Nurburgring, Musk got lathered up and took a highly modified S (additional electric motor) over to see what it would do, it was okay but not as good as Porsche did. He never announced the results. With the European luxury builders going all-in on electric cars, Musk knows Tesla’s days are numbered as an aspirational brand.

  117. 117.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 11:24 am

    @West of the Rockies: I never liked Joe Biden before his stint as Obama’s VP–he was a more abrasive figure back then and also much further to the right ideologically (because Biden is fundamentally a weathervane–he follows the Democratic Party mainstream, wherever that happens to be).

    But compare this guy to Trump and there’s never been much question of how that comes out.

  118. 118.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 11:25 am

    @Jager: Nobody ever made Elon Musk get into the car business. He’s certainly not a founder of Tesla–he bought that status.

    A thing I never liked about the Toyota Prius (including the model I test-drove recently) is the way they put all the dashboard displays on a center-mounted panel, instead of putting them in front of the driver. Teslas are even more absurd, putting absolutely everything on what amounts to this big TV in the middle. From a driver’s perspective I don’t get it.

  119. 119.

    Tony Gerace

    November 18, 2021 at 11:26 am

    Ha.  So “Brandon” is a NASCAR driver.  I’ve lived my whole life north of the Mason-Dixon line, so I confess that I’ve never understood the appeal of NASCAR.  As my uncle once said, if he wanted to see people driving in circles for hours he’d just take a ride on the New Jersey Turnpike.  As George Carlin once pointed out, half the people have below-average intelligence.

  120. 120.

    Tarragon

    November 18, 2021 at 11:27 am

    @White & Gold Purgatorian:

    I wonder what that truck weighs, that they need 1000 hp, even for hauling and towing

    In a ICE engine vehicle getting huge horsepower is difficult and heavy.  With electric vehicles getting huge horsepower is almost a side effect of other things you want in the vehicle.

    You want to fast charge so you need a big path into the battery.

    You want to capture more of the braking energy back into the battery, called regenerative braking. That needs bigger motors to capture that energy and that same big path into the battery.

    Having a big path into the battery gives you a big path back out to the motors.  One you have all that to double the HP doesn’t have anything near the same same complexity and  weight penalty that doubling the HP of an ICE.

    By comparison it’s cheap and easy to make high HP electric vehicles.  That then gives electric vehicles an easy sales point against ICE vehicles.  A big HP number on the specs sheet and can be felt in driving.

    That said the numbers are getting ridiculous.  High HP numbers like these used to need real dedication to get. Spend a lots of money and do a lot of work. So you had to really want it.  Now you can just buy it off the lot.

    One of the car enthusiast sites I follow occasionally, and gently, suggests that cars over 300 HP should require special licensing.  Cheap High HP has caused a lot of dead people.

  121. 121.

    Shakti

    November 18, 2021 at 11:29 am

    @geg6: While I do not regret my move, I miss Pittsburgh, and its best season, fall. <3 Because of the pandemic, and the fact vaccines were not widely available, my uncle’s 80th birthday party was a Zoom session.

    The inclines are not fun in the summer when the air goes out. :-p

  122. 122.

    Jager

    November 18, 2021 at 11:33 am

    @Gloomyjim:

    We have a 2007 Corvette Z51, at 80 mph on the highway, I get 32-34 mpg. In 6th gear, the engine is turning just under 1700 rpm. I get around 20-21 in town if I keep my foot out of it.

  123. 123.

    oatler

    November 18, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The KR trail has shown us this isn’t civil war; it’s guerrilla warfare to be fought one body at a time.

  124. 124.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 18, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @West of the Rockies: ​
    Your answer is neatly contained in

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​

    Ron DeSantis holding a press conference in Brandon, FL at Brandon Honda.

    It is all about being an asshole. Trump is an asshole. He is a dumb, mean racist who has the emotional level of a first grade bully. He validates them and became president off of being an asshole. Yes, they admire him. They need no excuse to hate anyone, like grade school bullies don’t. They will make up an imaginary Joe Biden to mock, because they are assholes and that is how grade school bullies do it.

  125. 125.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 18, 2021 at 11:40 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yup, kindness is weakness, bully is strength. And most of them self-identify as “Christians”

  126. 126.

    Tony Jay

    November 18, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Is that so he can holler “Let’s Go, Brandon!” at the crowd and get everybody who think’s that’s a brilliant political ploy to full mast in under a second?

  127. 127.

    Leto

    November 18, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @narya: @Another Scott: same; I follow F1 and went to the 2015 race. Did all three days, all the events. It was spectacular. Part of what made it amazing was the entire crowd experience. We sat at Luffield which is packed at least 4 deep. Every time Hamilton came around, the crowd erupted. Ofc we missed the starting line shenanigans where both Lotuses crashed into each other and were out of the race, but it was still an amazing experience. And yes, as soon as we got home I went back and re-watched the race to see everything else that happened.

    I also attended a lot of motorcycle races there with a friend and it was such a great time. Same with NFL games in London. It’s the same with concerts, museums, movies, or any other types of performances. There are times when the group experience transcends the individual.

  128. 128.

    lowtechcyclist

    November 18, 2021 at 11:44 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    And after voting no on a historic infrastructure bill they like to pretend that they are the ones who who care about Biden’s agenda.

    “Nassty Squad! We hates them, we hates them for ever!”

    More seriously, if BBB doesn’t pass with a significant component to combat climate change, the only ‘historic’ thing about this infrastructure bill is likely to be that we rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic when we needed to keep the boat from sinking.

    So yeah, hate on them for pointing this out.  The nerve of them, trying to keep the focus on what’s actually important.

  129. 129.

    Citizen Alan

    November 18, 2021 at 11:44 am

    @West of the Rockies: Your question answers itself.  Biden is the distillation of everything they hate. Trump is the distillation of everything they are.

  130. 130.

    Amir Khalid

    November 18, 2021 at 11:47 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Apparently, there are viewers who actually like stale and/or blindingly obvious “hot takes” presented by the Pee Wee Herman of CNN.

  131. 131.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 11:52 am

    @Jager: A few years ago, I looked at some graphs of VW engine horsepower vs RPM.  At 1900 RPM, my 1.9 TDI is making around 20 HP and I can cruise at 55-60 MPH.  Cars don’t need much power to cruise at a steady speed – one needs it to get up to speed, especially if one wants to do it quickly.

    It looks like Cummins semi-trailer engines are typically 350-600 HP (and beaucoup torque, of course).  300 HP is much more than anyone sensible will ever use in a car, and probably most pickups…

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (“Whose mom had a 1970 GTO that he put a 335 HP 455 in…”)

  132. 132.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 11:55 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Lots of people have wondered exactly why Trump decided to go anti-masker, and undermine his own public-health authorities who worked for him, when he could have gotten huge public cred and probably been reelected easily with any minimal effort to fight COVID.

    I think it’s as simple as this: Trump saw masks on people’s faces, thought they looked kind of dorky, and realized instantly with his instinct for conflict and assholery that he could divide the United States into two warring camps by implying that people like him wouldn’t wear masks. The tribal affiliation would be visible on your face. Since dividing people and being an asshole was always his main play, he went with that.

    Also, he hated Anthony Fauci because Fauci started getting attention instead of him. And after the election, he hated Pfizer because Pfizer announced their vaccine like one or two days too late for his election. So all of that fed into the Trump loyalists going antivax, without Trump even telling them to.

    It’s all about ginning up conflict and finding people to scapegoat and harass. Opposing COVID control measures is better for that than supporting them. It didn’t matter how many people would die.

  133. 133.

    James E Powell

    November 18, 2021 at 11:56 am

    Are we talking cars? Last night otan the way home my 10 yr old 200K mile Prius up & died in the fastrak lane on the 91 freeway. Called AAA & waited, but the CHP showed up and said, “Here, you cannot stay.” So they towed me to a safer location. CHP officer said, “If that ever happens again, you call 911.”

    I await the mechanic’s diagnosis. The battery appears to be the most likely problem. Question will be, do I fix or do I trash?

  134. 134.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    @Another Scott: One of the main ways hybrids save on fuel is just by having a smaller internal-combustion engine. A lower-power subcompact can do just as well for highway MPG. But the hybrids make up for it by having the electric motor mostly handle low-speed torque, on stored energy mostly recovered through regenerative braking. And all this also makes them far more efficient than a conventional powertrain at stop-and-go, which an ICE is not best suited for.

  135. 135.

    Philbert

    November 18, 2021 at 12:01 pm

    @Roger Moore: Range anxiety: There was a Nissan Leaf lease deal a few years back where you get 20? days a year of a gas car, to reserve for trips etc.  A good model. An additional  draw might be to let you use a fancy car rather than something boring.

  136. 136.

    Jager

    November 18, 2021 at 12:03 pm

    @Another Scott:

    My wife is on her 2nd Volt, I love driving it. One sunny afternoon a kid in a Civic with an impossibly loud exhaust pulled up next to me at a light, I slipped the Volt into Sport mode and smoked him.

  137. 137.

    Gloomyjim

    November 18, 2021 at 12:15 pm

    @Jager: not for $20k you didn’t…but DAAAMMN!

  138. 138.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 12:20 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: UPS plans to augment its future fleet of electric vans with some that have hybrid power, for longer routes. The same will probably happen with school buses in rural school districts, while urban and suburban  districts shift to electric buses. I believe the infrastructure bill has money for electric school buses. I know that the day after the Senate passed the bill, VP Harris talked that that up at an electric bus plant in Rocky Mount, North Carolina.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    November 18, 2021 at 12:26 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: Eighty nine other Progressive Caucus members voted for the Infrastructure bill. Did people like Katie Porter, Joe Neguse, Jaimie Raskin, and Veronica Escobar lack the wisdom and courage of the six who voted against it?

  140. 140.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 12:27 pm

    @Jager: Pity the Volt seems to be extinct (that whole “plug-in EV with a gasoline engine that just runs a generator for range extension” model fell by the wayside when batteries for pure EVs got bigger).

  141. 141.

    Jager

    November 18, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    @Gloomyjim:

    It’s a great road trip car, it’s a coupe, tons of room behind the seats. I bought it when it was 10 months old with 9,000 miles on it, paid 41k for it because the guy was desperate due to his recent divorce and getting blown out of his job. Other than an AMG Benz, I hadn’t had a “sporty” car for years, I’d forgotten how much fun they are to drive.

  142. 142.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 18, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    @Geminid: To me, this seems like the logical move.  While I know that electric cars are the future, I do not think that the infrastructure in is place yet for electric cars to take the place of ICE passenger vehicles.

  143. 143.

    Jager

    November 18, 2021 at 12:39 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    My wife’s commute is just under 30 miles, she can’t remember the last time she bought gas for it. The Volt costs about 28 a month to charge from SoCal Edison. Our two Volts (we leased the first one) have been superb cars. The biggest reason Chevy dumped them was the tech is complicated and the profit margin was low. I read an interview with a Mercedes power train engineer, he said his dream car would be an E Class with a 100hp motor on each wheel and a tiny diesel generator under the hood to keep the battery up. Sounds like a Volt to me.

  144. 144.

    Another Scott

    November 18, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Yup.  BMW had an i3 like that (the REx) but the cost probably drove people away.  Somebody down the street has/had an i3 but I don’t think it had the range extender.

    A guy at work has a recent Prius that seems to get 60+ mpg average for him. Impressive, but tiny battery so one is still mostly using gas…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  145. 145.

    Gravenstone

    November 18, 2021 at 1:10 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Bach Toccata in D

    As we knew it in my college gaming group, music to necromance by.

  146. 146.

    cain

    November 18, 2021 at 1:12 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Yeah, I don’t think we can ever be in a state where we can have a hybrid human computer nav system. Humans just can’t be trusted not to be stupid since they put in an element of chaos that creates corner cases in teh software that might not get addressed.

    I mean already self driving cars can’t tell if a human is running across the road or anything. So plenty of stuff to keep working on.

    What will happen though is that we are going to have a shit ton of AI computing to do all that overload calculations. Which btw has no regulations so you never know if they do shit like ignore if the human is a black or non-white person and intentionally create a compromising scenario. :P

  147. 147.

    Gravenstone

    November 18, 2021 at 1:13 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:The guy is only good at buying things and getting government funding.

    You left out shameless self promotion…

  148. 148.

    narya

    November 18, 2021 at 1:20 pm

    @Leto: This may be a dead thread . . . but I HIGHLY recommend the IndyCar race at Road America. We camp nearby and are there for all the days–it is fabulous. You can walk the whole track–see the cars coming at you in Thunder Valley!–and walk through the pit lane except during race day.

  149. 149.

    Soprano2

    November 18, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: I almost got into an argument with a guy I work with a few years ago because I commented that we aren’t nearly ready for true self-driving cars yet. He insisted that the only problems with “self-driving cars” is the humans who are supposed to be watching them! Some of these people are way too invested in the idea of self-driving cars being the greatest thing ever to see all the problems with them. I continue to believe that the first application of this tech will be semis driving exit to exit on the freeway, with human drivers going the rest of the way.

  150. 150.

    Soprano2

    November 18, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: I like the blind spot feature on my Sonata, it’s saved me more than once. I also recently discovered that if you are on the highway and put the lights on “auto” it automatically turns the brights on and off when a car is coming. I’ve used the Android Auto when I need navigation and it’s worked pretty well. It yelled at me once when it thought my hands weren’t on the steering wheel even though they were!

  151. 151.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 1:44 pm

    @Soprano2: Yeah, the “hands on the wheel” alert is on a bit of a hair trigger, sometimes it scolds you because you’re not using a death grip.

  152. 152.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 18, 2021 at 1:47 pm

    @Another Scott: The Hyundai Ioniq is at least listed as getting up there.

    I got the hybrid Sonata instead, which is a considerably more massive car and adapted from a non-hybrid sedan, so it doesn’t do that well–mine is rated 45 city / 51 highway / 47 combined. My experience is that that’s quite an accurate rating in warm weather, but when it gets cold you lose a couple MPG. And if you drive with a lead foot you lose more. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

  153. 153.

    J R in WV

    November 18, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    Our 2019 Mazda SUV has a bunch of driver assist tools. The only one I find valuable is cruise control, which unfortunately has trouble on curves ( in WV? Get Real ~!!~ ) and hills.

    It has slammed on the brakes a couple of times for no good reason, car ahead moving into a left turn lane and such. I’m gonna find out how to turn that off asap. I did learn that it does flash the brake lights when it hits the brakes, at least some times, by watching the rear window wiper for red light in nearly dark conditions.

    A car that does stuff without the driver, ME, telling it to, is more scary than safer. On a limited access highway built for continuous high speeds, for the car to slow down suddenly because it sees a curve at the bottom of a steep hill is a death trap when on a road with cars without such stupid auto-pilot hazards.

    I do like the radar for cars behind me, but it just warns me, it doesn’t do anything to me, thank god.

  154. 154.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 18, 2021 at 2:01 pm

    @J R in WV: A car that does stuff without the driver, ME, telling it to, is more scary than safer.

    I even feel this way about anti skid brakes that do the pulsing for you. I’m an old school winter driver who prefers manual control of my braking.

    On the other hand, I guess I’m in favor of anti skid brakes for the drivers around me, who by assumption are idiots who don’t know how to drive in snow.

  155. 155.

    J R in WV

    November 18, 2021 at 2:03 pm

    @oatler:

    The KR trail has shown us this isn’t civil war

    Help me out — what’s the KR Trail…? How does it show us this?

    thanx in advance!

  156. 156.

    NotMax

    November 18, 2021 at 2:11 pm

    @J R in WV

    Yuppers. Am solidly in the camp of those who prefer to drive a car, not have a car drive them.

  157. 157.

    Primer Gray (formerly Yet Another Jeff)

    November 18, 2021 at 2:24 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Yeah, they never do. Ah well, it pays the bills and gives me great health insurance, so I’m alive and whatnot.

    No bugs…that’s as likely as GM being sold to Tesla.

  158. 158.

    dopey-o

    November 18, 2021 at 3:33 pm

    @J R in WV:  What does KR Trail mean? (Paraphrased)

    KR Trail = Kyle Rittenhouse Trial. Wherein a sweet baby-faced white boy can’t be a murderous psychopath, because … reasons …

    Also, glamorous white NYC billionaire can’t be a rapist …

  159. 159.

    evodevo

    November 18, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    @Geminid: Yep…one of the redneckiest co-workers I have, said it bores her to tears…”Who wants to watch a bunch of cars running around and around in a circle for 4 hrs..”  So much for the next generation of track fans…

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