The myth of Musk has become increasingly tattered over recent years. He’s no MoTU, not a world-spanning genius uniquely able to bend technology to his will. As the Twitter debacle has made obvious, he’s no more than an ordinarily clever guy who parlayed a family apartheid fortune and some good timing into early Silicon Valley success, who then deployed his one true talent–as a hype man and a skilled approach to the manipulation of gov’t subsidies–to parlay a first fortune into the stupendous wealth he has today.
That talent had its uses: Space X is a real company, and Tesla can, I think, be credited with accelerating the electric car transition. How much credit he truly deserves for either is a question I’ll leave for those who will do the research and reporting. My point here is that this emperor is truly naked, which is a mental image I’m sorry I just created for you.
And no, this is not a post about today’s Twitter horrorshow, in which it seems that Musk has gone all in on enabling and succoring the dissemination of CSAM.* It is, rather, that he’s a common garden-variety con man.
Tesla…decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers “rosy” projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts.
“Tesla” didn’t decide; Musk did.
The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.
“Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged,” the person said, adding: “When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good.”
That’s the classic con-dynamic. Make the mark feel good just long enough to spirit away their cash.
Musk then compounded the fraud. When Tesla owners tried to schedule service to deal with what seemed to be defective batteries, Tesla employees were directed to gaslight them:
…last summer, Tesla created the Las Vegas “Diversion Team” to handle only range cases, according to the people familiar with the matter.
The office atmosphere at times resembled that of a telemarketing boiler room. A supervisor had purchased the metallophone – a xylophone with metal keys – that employees struck to celebrate appointment cancellations, according to the people familiar with the office’s operations.
Advisers would normally run remote diagnostics on customers’ cars and try to call them, the people said. They were trained to tell customers that the EPA-approved range estimates were just a prediction, not an actual measurement, and that batteries degrade over time, which can reduce range. Advisors would offer tips on extending range by changing driving habits.
If the remote diagnostics found anything else wrong with the vehicle that was not related to driving range, advisors were instructed not to tell the customer, one of the sources said. Managers told them to close the cases.
That is, the Tesla response seems to have been, “We sold you vaporware! Sucks to be you.”
IANAL, but to me this at least approaches criminality. It certainly confirms my already firm buying decision. Sometime in the next couple of years I’ll be looking to replace my venerable appliance, a 2013 Toyota Prius plug-in. My wife and I plan to buy an all-electric vehicle once the current ride either turns its toes to the ceiling or my son needs a car.
There were already lots of reasons beyond Musk’s personal wretchedness to avoid Tesla (my son still laughs at the Tesla guy at their Prudential Center showroom who insisted that a visible half-inch rise between panels on a Model Y was “within spec”). But this? Not just the range issue, but the terrifying evidence of service negligence–this is not a company in which anyone should put any trust.
But we knew that.
Have some thread, as open as a manhole cover when you really, really need there not to be traffic.
*I was today years old when I learned that acronym and I find it double-plus ungood that I inhabit a timeline in which such coinages are evoked.
Image: Guy Pène du Bois, The Confidence Man, 1919.
Leto
I simply do not understand how he has a CEO title at any of his companies, let alone a hot dog stand. Loses money hand over fist, lies about everything, takes credit for shit he had no part of… wait, I stand corrected. I see how he’s still a CEO. Can’t wait for all those “golden parachutes”.
Cervantes
From The Madness of Crowds, by William J. Bernstein, describing John Blunt, the mastermind of the South Sea Bubble:
different-church-lady
Like, they thought the drivers weren’t going to figure that out?
different-church-lady
@Leto:
I’m telling you, there’s something about shittiness that has a magnetic effect on money.
Leto
@different-church-lady: agreed; it’s just the age old adage of “power reveals”. I simply don’ t understand from a business standpoint how he still remains in a leadership position.
rikyrah
I’m glad that these stories keep on coming out.
He’s a garbage human being running a garbage car company
Those who are EV inclined – you have better choices than Tesla
Tom Levenson
@Cervantes: My view of Blunt is a bit more complicated than that. He’s the dog that caught the bus, and then tried to figure out how to extract himself from the obviously approaching crisis without harm to himself–and maybe the nation too, if that were possible. If not, then himself would do.
Much more on this can be found in Money for Nothing, by some guy.
waspuppet
Elmo isn’t even a good con man. The thing is, when you spirit away their cash, you’re supposed to disappear yourself. He just made himself more and more visible.
Another Scott
@Cervantes: You should have cited Tom’s book.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@waspuppet: It’s because he’s more The Joker than an ordinary con.
Gin & Tonic
@Tom Levenson: That’s a good book.
different-church-lady
So I’m hoping that with so many people in the “finding out” stage of things recently, that this gets added to the list very quickly. I ain’t no lawyer, but the whole diversion team thing has got to be illegal in some way.
sdhays
It’s too bad Peter Thiel managed to oust him from PayPal. If he had been allowed to run “X-PayPal” into the ground, he might have lost enough money and prestige to fuck off.
And maybe he would have been forced to sell X.com to someone with a realistic idea of how to leverage it.
Gin & Tonic
Anyway, I asked in the thread you posted yesterday, but late, out of curiosity, did your time at the Tute overlap at all with Minor White? I suspect not, but can’t be sure. Since you were discussing visual storytelling, that thought popped into my head.
pacem appellant
I work for an EV company (not Tesla). So far as I’ve seen, our vehicles’ estimation of their range is awfully close to their actual range. My own EV, a 2019 Nissan Leaf, overestimates by almost 50 miles, though I seldom go on trips where range anxiety is an issue.
MattF
Back in the old days, when I still had mixed feelings about Musk, I saw a video made by a couple of car guys who brought in an actual expert on automobile assembly and quality assurance and had him inspect Tesla’s product. It was immediately clear that Tesla’s QA was somewhere between missing and deliberately bad.
Roger Moore
@Leto:
Money. He has the CEO position because he is the major funder and gets to use his control over the stock to give himself the fancy title. My impression is that at most of his companies this is a largely ceremonial title, if only because they’ve built a whole system around him to keep him from running the company into a ditch. At SpaceX, for example, Gwynne Shotwell seems to be the one who’s really in charge. I think the major reason Twitter is having so many more problems than Tesla or SpaceX is because he’s actually in charge there.
Roger Moore
@sdhays:
He would have done double duty if he had managed to pull Thiel down with him.
Yarrow
Interesting thread on Elmu and his fixation on X and how he got kicked out of Paypal and all that stuff.
Link to Nitter so everyone can read it.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … (Repost from a day or so ago.) NotebookCheck.net:
Lower mileage than claimed, poor assembly quality, and it disables safety features without telling you.
What’s not to like??
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
@Leto: Daring Fireball has the ‘translation’ from hostage-code to English of the X/Twitter CEO’s company-wide memo.
Leto
@Roger Moore:
Maybe with the other boards seeing how he’s running Twitler into the ground, they might take further action against him at the remaining ones. Like Tesla and this shit here. Idk.
@Roger Moore: after Musk tried to kill Thiel in his Mclaren F1, I think Thiel was out for blood in any and all forms.
VOR
A half-inch panel gap may indeed be within spec. All that means is the spec is crap. Changing the definition of acceptable rather than fixing the problem is a pretty standard technique.
I see some things to genuinely admire about Tesla products. They continuously improve the product, sometimes by designing model-specific parts rather than just using a lower performance common part. The Giga-casting is intriguing where a single large casting can replace >100 individual parts, reducing the number of welds required and creating a more uniform product. OTOH, it concerns me that cars built a week apart could be different. I worry about ability to repair those large castings. “Full Self-Driving” has been a hot mess with constantly shifting goal posts. Then there is the debacle formerly called Twitter, which can’t be called X because other companies own the trademark.
Leto
@MattF:
haha
Villago Delenda Est
Elno’s sole talent is grifting. He’s managed to corral a bunch of techbro fools into a cult, and it’s a cult as pathetic as the cults of the PAB or assclown Glemm.
Brachiator
@waspuppet:
Trump flipped that model of con man behavior.
Yarrow
@MattF: How many employees are left at Twitter/X anyway? Melon, Linda Y…who else? Ten guys who are on visas and can’t quit?
Yarrow
@waspuppet: He’s not a con man in that classic style. He’s a cult leader.
Roger Moore
@VOR:
“Full Self-Driving” is fraud. They should not be allowed to give something that name and then claim in the fine print that it isn’t actually capable of driving itself.
Tom Levenson
@Another Scott:
@Gin & Tonic:
Thanks to you both!
Villago Delenda Est
@sdhays: To Thiel’s credit (and I’m reluctant to give it) he recognized Elno as utterly incompetent, and got rid of him.
Tom Levenson
@Gin & Tonic: Nope. I arrived there in the fall of 2004. Long after…
TriassicSands
Money? Stupidity? Corruption? The Peter Principle to the tenth power?
Tom Levenson
@VOR: Tesla service is a persistent failure opportunity. What good is a car if you can’t drive it for weeks when it breaks? Leaving aside the simple lying about whether or not your car is broken…
And some of the decisions have been exactly the opposite of improvement-focused. The sensor suite has been pretty steadily degraded; the Model 3 (at least) is a camera-only platform now, allegedly because cameras perform as well as cameras + lidar, and in fact because decontenting is a time-honored technique for squeezing the profits out of what is becoming a commodity product.
Amir Khalid
There is a US Government agency that oversees vehicle makers’ product claims, is there not? I expect that agency to come down hard on Tesla for bullshitting its customers about something as important as vehicle range, preferably before someone gets stranded on a desert road and dies of sunstroke.
Cervantes
Bernstein isn’t saying that Blunt necessarily set out to perpetrate a fraud, but that the adulation and fame associated with great wealth went to his head.
It’s The Delusions of Crowds, not the Madness, sorry about that.
TriassicSands
Lots of people lie about their mileage worse that auto manufacturers. I met a fellow once who had a 1987 Toyota PU truck — Turbo. He claimed to get 35+ mpg. He may not have been a liar — just delusional.
zhena gogolia
Great painting.
Manyakitty
@MattF: that is a thing of beauty.
Bill Arnold
@MattF:
LOLed at this:
Brachiator
@VOR:
I agree with you. Traditional auto companies and tech companies have had big problems in delivering the two visions of the car of the future: electric vehicles and the self-driving car.
Tesla was able to deliver electric vehicles that were popular and which appeared to satisfy consumer expectations. However, Musk’s instability and shady business practices, may undermine what he has accomplished with respect to electric vehicles.
Tesla appears to be falling behind Waymo in developing a reliable self-driving car. But I also recently watched a video of a TV reporter taking a test drive in a Waymo vehicle that went spectacularly wrong.
Among other problems, I was surprised that there was not a faster and simpler way of informing customer service of driving and navigation problems.
Law & Disorder (Lurker)
I suggest we call the opposite of the Midas Touch the Musk Touch. Everything that guy touches turns to shit.
prostratedragon
@MattF: “Once I built a railroad …” (Judy Collins)
TriassicSands
I’m pretty sure that it is unconstitutional to hold one of the richest people on the planet accountable for false claims. But you’ll have to check with Clarence Thomas and his newly revised 1789 U.S. Constitution to be certain.
Bill Arnold
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s dueling with pejoratives:
Book: Elon Musk thinks Peter Thiel is a sociopath and Thiel thinks Musk is a fraud. (ROB BESCHIZZA, SEP 21, 2021, BoingBoing)
Yarrow
@Bill Arnold: Hey! They’re both right!
TriassicSands
@Brachiator:
They called it “full self-driving, because “full self-bullshitting” or “total delusional driving” didn’t market well. Another proposed name was “how to kill someone with your car and have it be the car’s fault.” That was more popular, but too long.
different-church-lady
@Bill Arnold: What’s the math on two stopped clocks?
Elly
@Tom Levenson: loved “Money For Nothing” and am looking forward to rereading it once I get it back from my son. Unfortunately, this could take a while – he planned on reading it during his deployment, but he didn’t have room for it, so it’s currently gathering dust in a storage room somewhere at Fort Soon-To-Be-Eisenhower.
Speaking of books and Elmo, I’d also recommend reading “Ludicrous” by Ed Niedermeyer. He’s had Elmo’s number for quite a while, so I’m sure that the Reuters’ revelations will not surprise him (keep an eye on his new blog, https://niedermeyer.io/. I wouldn’t be surprised if he pens a post about this).
As for moi, I started to look askance at the dude back when he trying to insert himself into the Thai cave rescue operation. That was the first time I thought “WTF is wrong with that guy?” Sad to say, it wasn’t the last.
JBWoodford
I just got a Hyundai Ioniq 5, and so far (having driven it less than 400 miles) it seems to be a pretty decent vehicle.
Dorothy A. Winsor
OT: So I went to the Town Hall. On the campus here, there’s a separate building that’s assisted living, memory care, and skilled nursing. Among other things, there are totally separate cooking and dining facilities. So a woman who used to live here but now has moved there, came to the meeting, drove her scooter right up to the front, stopped a foot from the podium, and demanded the mic. Then she spent ten minutes complaining about the food in the other building.
On the up side, someone complained that their TV was having problems, specifically Fox was garbled. So that was nice. Now I’m drinking wine.
Ken
I blame the public’s reluctance to turn to tar and feathers.
Redshift
@sdhays:
Yeah, I’m sure there are plenty of people who can competently run a porn site, though maybe not enough to make the domain worth a million bucks…
rikyrah
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
May it continue to be garbled.
Ken
I thought that when it catches fire, it locks you in. Or is that still in beta?
different-church-lady
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
How could they tell?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@different-church-lady: One of the reasons I laughed was that FOX used to be on the TV in the cafe all the time, but Mr DAW found where they hid the remote and changed to CNN whenever he went past. Interestingly, FOX has been on much less lately. I don’t know why.
Sis
And Elon wants people to trust him to do their banking!!! And eventually, to put chips in people’s heads!!!
cain
BTW back when Tesla was still fairly young – it was a completely different experience. It felt that we were part of something big – and we had a small but active community. Working with Tesla was really awesome and everything was really done with a high level of detail. We got many things done for free when we were servicing.
I loved my Tesla – it was a 2015 Model S 60 – it didn’t have any of the sensors that would have made it self driving. So I can only drive it like a regular car. But it was solid. It was really safe as well.
Elon was hardly even known at the time – he didn’t have any presence. I never even heard about him much. I think when that divorce happened – he turned into a raging asshole more than he already was and now he’s fucked up the brand and apparently fucked up the management of the company.
Redshift
@Roger Moore:
It’s worse than a fraud, it’s actively dangerous. If you claim you have that and then say drivers are required to have their hands near/on the wheel and paying attention to the road at all times, then lots of people who are sold on that feature aren’t going to take that part seriously. Compounded by the fact that humans are seriously bad at judging attention and risk.
You might as well take the road safety PSAs that warn about how far your car travels if you look at a text on your phone, and turn them around to “go ahead and text, I’m sure your eyes will be back on the road in time!”
Ken
So you’ve given up all hope for the flying car?
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Your place really needs someone to manage the meetings and keep that stuff under control. At one of the retirement places I visit, for Town Halls they require questions to be submitted ahead of time. No hijacking the mic!
Brachiator
@TriassicSands:
The Waymo self-driving card have not killed anyone and have been impressive in some test drives.
Here is another example of a test drive with a passenger in the back seat.
Cacti
He should have called his car the Edison, as Edison was also a guy who liked being called a genius for slapping his name on the work of others.
Redshift
@Dorothy A. Winsor: If no one’s around at some point, he may want to check and see if he can get to the channel-blocking menu. 😉
(Honestly, it’s for their own good! My (now late) mother-in-law who was not at all right-wing started watching Fox when she got dementia, and I’m convinced it was because they repeat a few things over and over, so it was less frustrating than trying to follow a real news story or entertainment show plot. I blocked it and it did wonders for both her mood and ours.)
different-church-lady
The thing I don’t like about self-driving cars is that when you give them the finger they just ignore you.
Benw
@Tom Levenson: Money for Nothing was written by Mark Knopfler!
Bill Arnold
@Villago Delenda Est:
He has some talent for market manipulation. (Or are you including that in grifting?)
Also, he’s gullible and easily manipulated, which makes him a useful tool (“effector”) for some actors.
Redshift
@TriassicSands:
Hence all the philosophical discussions about how to frame it so the manufacturers aren’t liable, because reasons.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Redshift: I absolutely believe it’s for the old folks’ own good to block Fox. I suspect that would be a step too far.
@Yarrow: It was insane. Everyone in that room was being held hostage. I’ve never seen that particular thing happen before.
TriassicSands
@Brachiator:
Yes, I was referring to Tesla. I don’t know anything about the current state of Waymo vehicles*. I would probably trust anyone more than I would trust Musk. (Add to that Trump and the entire Pantheon of Republicans, but they aren’t making vehicles.)
*I’m likely to be dead before self-driving cars cause me any concern.
Steeplejack
@different-church-lady:
At least they don’t pull out a gun and shoot you. Not yet.
FastEdD
As a retired engineering teacher, I found a lot to like about the Tesla design. The skateboard chassis, the panoramic roof, the frunk, all popularized by Tesla and now adopted by almost all EV designs. My partner had a Model S and I drove it for 5 years. So quiet and powerful, I loved it. There were a couple small production bugs but Tesla remote service came out to our house and fixed them in the driveway, and no problems since. Remote service is really cool. Over the air software updates, another Tesla innovation that everybody does. OTOH, I became wary when they started to decontent their vehicles and remove radar, interior switches, and even a round steering wheel. It was getting really stupid. When it came around to buying an EV I bought a Ford Mach E because it has all the features Tesla took out of the Model Y, and a few they never put in, like a garage door opener, a screen in front of the driver, and Apple Carplay. I’ve had the Ford for a year now, about 10K miles, and not a single problem, perfect build quality. With rebates from the feds and from CA, and selling my old gas guzzler Jeep, it wasn’t that expensive either. Thanks to Tesla for starting us on the path to EV’s, I’m on my own path now.
Brachiator
@Ken:
When I was a kid I went to some Pavilion of the future that promised picture telephones, monorails and flying cars. One out of three ain’t bad.
Drones are turning out to be surprisingly versatile. Some future version might morph into that flying vehicle. George Jetson would approve.
FastEdD
And OBTW, FSD is a POS! The only advantage Tesla maintains is the Supercharger network, and now that is being opened up to other brands, including Ford.
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Who runs the meetings? Staff? Or residents?
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: See! Bothsiderism isn’t bullshit! Ha, take that, shitlib!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Yarrow: Staff.
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yikes. Someone there needs some lessons on how to run a good meeting. That kind of thing is unacceptable. Are they willing to listen to suggestions from residents on things like that?
Another Scott
@TriassicSands:
Reuters (from yesterday):
Google’s tightening its belt a bit (as it often does), so self-driving trucks (which were supposed to be one of the first real applications) are probably yet another few [dozen] Friedman Units off.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@FastEdD:
Reuters (from yesterday):
[ womp, womp ]
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@FastEdD:
It’s a little sad about Tesla, because they did give the industry the kick in the ass it needed.
thalarctosMaritimus
@different-church-lady: I think that’s where IBGYBG (“I’ll be gone; you’ll be gone”) is supposed to kick in.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Yarrow: Probably. It’s hard to stop people once they get going though. I live among well off, old white people, and they feel pretty entitled. Oh well, there is some entertainment. And usually I just send Mr DAW who finds it amusing.
prostratedragon
@Elly: Yes indeed, though there was a thing or two had him on my watchlist before the cave. In general I’m wary of people who insert themselves into too many disparate things.
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I get it. I go to places like that. It’s up to the staff to run a good meeting that accomplishes its goals, not just give people an open mic to vent. At least it’s entertaining.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Another Scott:
Ummm… 1,337 vehicles? So it’s a leet number of vehicles instead of something else, like 420 vehicles?
lol!
oatler
@Law & Disorder (Lurker):
He’s King Midas in reverse!
Another Scott
@Elly: Thanks for the ping. I’ve got the book on my phone.
Lots of interesting tidbits.
“In fact, 85 percent of Tesla’s 2009 gross margin (which only includes the parts and labor to produce cars) came from ZEV credits, and in 2008 its negative gross margin would have been four times worse without the credits.”
IOW, Melon had a lot of help from Uncle Sam in keeping Tesla alive.
Cheers,
Scott.
Burnspbesq
EV geeks have known all along that Tesla’s guess-o-meter was keyed to EPA range estimates, which the cars rarely achieve in real-world conditions. It’s always been a con.
More worrisome is that Leon is on the verge of succeeding in monopolizing charging infrastructure, and DOJ appears to be asleep at the switch.
FastEdD
@Another Scott: True, I had seen that and I’m encouraged to see more manufacturers get into the charging business. The companies listed will have different degrees of buy-in. Some, like Stellantis don’t have many vehicles in the pipeline coming out soon. Some, like Hyundai/Kia have 800 volt architecture which is good for fast charging, but incompatible with most other vehicles. This charger network is due to receive funds from the IRA. Score another one for Bidenomics.
karen marie
@Tom Levenson: Took me a minute. I thought you were referring to Donald E. Westlake’s “Money for Nothing.” Hahaha.
Burnspbesq
The best value EVs on the market today are the siblings, Hyundai Ioniq 5/Kia EV6. The best car is the Porsche Taycan, but it’s well beyond the reach of the vast majority of buyers.
if you’re a Truck Guy, get a Rivian or wait for the Silverado.
TriassicSands
@Another Scott:
Thanks. That is good to know.
Dorothy A. Winsor
The guy who drained the Mar-a-Lago pool into the security room has been added to the classified documents indictment.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Pretty harsh for an accident.
Kirk
@Brachiator: I am terrified
ofat the thought of flying cars, and as you point out about how drones are getting there I don’t think it’s an idle concern.I think of all the ways auto and motorcycle owners are idiots and think of that happening at a few hundred feet above my home/place of work/neighborhood schools.
hueyplong
@Dorothy A. Winsor: A knee-jerk reaction would be to guess that Mr Pool Drainer has failed to cooperate or has been less than candid about some aspect of his responses to questioning.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Google is a strange company. They come up with a lot of intriguing ideas, but then seem to lose interest and just abandon many of them.
Self-driving cars seemed to show some promise. Here they were testing them in defined areas in San Francisco and Phoenix, I think. But moving self-driving trucks with heavy loads over long distances might be a significantly different proposition and some of what they learned with cars may not apply.
I would not be surprised if this ends up to be another abandoned project.
Ken
@Baud: Though not for an “accident”.
twbrandt
@MattF: that was the funniest thing I’ve read in ages.
Sister Golden Bear
@FastEdD: As a product designer, Tesla definitely brought an elegance to their designs* — excluding the Truck That Shall Not Be Named (which wasn’t design by the guy who designed prior models), The exterior appearance of the cars was one of the things that played a big role in saving the company.
*Obviously they overdid the simplicity by moving off the cabin functions to the touch sign, but that was driven by Musk.
JWR
Haven’t read all the comments, but just so you know, TFG was just hit with additional charges. w00t!
Baud
@JWR:
You might be the first to report. The reporting above was simply about the addition of a new defendant.
FastEdD
The Tesla overpromise/underdeliver strategy was known several years ago in the industry. I am not defending it; this is just not a surprise that’s all. Some other car companies wisely chose the reverse. Customers like me were pleased to discover when their vehicles did better than advertised. The brouhaha over “Full Self Driving” is similar. GM’s and Ford’s driver assist technologies work really well on mapped highways only and they don’t promise more than that. Many drivers, including myself, won’t trust the tech to do everything.
West of the Rockies
I’m wondering if we should regard AI like nuclear weapons. Just because you can have them doesn’t mean you should. They are dangerous and should be tightly controlled.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
NBC
smith
@Baud: From what I’ve seen, it’s because he worked with Nauta on moving (hiding?) boxes of documents, and hasn’t been straightforward about it. I believe there are still maybe 2 dozen boxes missing.
hueyplong
Kind of hoping for witness tampering to be one of the four new charges.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Love this statesmanlike quote from his spokesperson:
JWR
@Baud: TV person says that the addition of indictments means that the May trial date is sure to be extended further out. How far, who knows?
zhena gogolia
Anyone who looks at Jack Smith in either a still photograph or video and thinks “deranged” needs to see someone.
pacem appellant
@Brachiator: An insider from Google once told me that the reason the company loses so many products (and ideas) to its graveyard is because internally there is prestige in chasing the new shiny objects. Older products have less luster and thus get less investment in time, people, and money.
Regarding self-driving, it will never work. FSD will never happen. It’s already failed, and if anyone had asked me (and other people who actually know about the intersection of humans and technology, or frankly, just Atrios), they would know that self-driving cars aren’t 10 years away, but at least 100.
zhena gogolia
@JWR: Oh, no, that’s not good.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Ultimately you need a single standard or some easy to apply universal adapter. And having a small share of the EV market won’t cut it. This is more PR than a truly significant development.
I also wonder about the security of public charging stations. How long does it take to charge a vehicle? Fifteen to twenty minutes? That’s an invitation for robbery or car jacking.
hueyplong
@JWR: Whether new charges add time to wait for trial depends on what those charges are. For example, witness tampering shouldn’t add any time at all. There wouldn’t be a million documents involved.
Baud
@Brachiator:
People are supposedly working on an adapter.
Yarrow
@Kirk: Drones scare me. A neighbor (I think) was flying one and it followed me while I was out for a walk. I finally hid under a huge oak tree where it couldn’t see me very well and eventually it went away.
It was loud and really intruded on my walk, especially as I didn’t know who was flying it and what it was doing. Taking pictures/video of me? Going to attack me? It was kind of unnerving.
Omnes Omnibus
@JWR: Why? Additional charges do not necessarily require more time. Sounds like a classic hot take to me. Best ignored until knowledgeable people have a look at the superseding indictment.
pacem appellant
@Brachiator: This is my industry, so I can answer this. The charging standard that is being adopted is called the North America Charging Standard (NACS). It is the charger used by Tesla charging stations.
While charging, car owners either sit in their car and read/surf. Or lock their car and grab a snack at Starbies.
Brachiator
@pacem appellant:
Many products don’t last long enough to get old. Or even last long enough to confer much in the way of prestige on the development teams. 3M used to be very adept at developing new products, perfecting them and then selling and marketing them. Google has a bad record when it comes to following through on many of the products they come up with.
It’s also weird to see them appear to panic a bit and jump into AI in such a haphazard and unfocused manner.
Baud
Why has Tesla been rebranded as Car X yet?
Roger Moore
@FastEdD:
The way I like to think about it is that there was a contest between Tesla and the traditional car companies. Tesla got a big head start in making the electric part work well, while the car companies had a big head start in the car part. So the question was whether the legacy car companies could figure out electric faster than Tesla could figure out car. From what I can see, the legacy car companies are catching up to Tesla faster than Tesla is catching up to them.
UncleEbeneezer
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Racer X still hasn’t signed his endorsement deal.
pacem appellant
@Brachiator: Age is relative, especially in fast development cycles of modern software. But other factors compound the problem. For example, Google bought PicNik, the best online photo editor hands down then or now. They immediately killed it and forced the PicNik users to use Picassa—their inferior product—with the promise that PicNik functional was coming to Picassa.
Well, the former PicNik engineers didn’t get re-routed to Picassa. They chased their own shiny things internally based on their interests—or waited long enough to cash out their Google shares and then move companies.
So Picassa didn’t get any love, and it too was put out to pasture for lack of investment and interest.
Burnspbesq
Is a superseding indictment a full-blown Cake Event, or are we limited to cupcakes?
zhena gogolia
@Burnspbesq: I’m on a diet, but I just had a glass of wine.
JWR
@hueyplong:
This IANAL thanks you!
But I just read this little blurb over at NBC’s breaking news thingy and it don’t sound like witness tampering to me. (Or does it?):
Destruction of evidence? Sheesh, these people are too much.
Burnspbesq
My favorite Tesla story revolves around the company finishing dead last in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey. Rather than undertake a crash program to improve quality, it prohibited J.D. Power from contacting Tesla owners (there are about 15 states in which JDP needs the manufacturer’s permission to do its survey).
zhena gogolia
@JWR: I haven’t seen anything about witness tampering.
pieceofpeace
@Bill Arnold: lo,l…
hueyplong
@UncleEbeneezer: A charge that shouldn’t require any addition to the current 10 month lead time for trial. There probably aren’t thousands of documents exchanged between Pool Guy and Trump.
Liking this round of additional charges and the incremental increase in psychological pressure on Trump.
Baud
@Burnspbesq:
How can they prohibit contacting owners?
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
That was my question as well. How do states or even companies prevent contact?
hueyplong
@zhena gogolia: Me either. Want to clarify that I made that up as an example of something that shouldn’t result in additional time before trial. What we’re now seeing parallels it, though, in terms of not adding tremendous additional review of documents.
Burnspbesq
@Baud:
stupid state laws.
zhena gogolia
@hueyplong: Yes, it doesn’t look like it, but I am so NAL.
Baud
@Burnspbesq:
?
Sounds like a First Amendment violation. But maybe not worth JD Power’s time to litigate.
Jay
@Brachiator:
around here, charging stations are set up in urban public spaces like malls, Universities, libraries. It takes about 2 hours to fast charge a Tesla, so you park, plug, go shopping, take a course, go to the gym, etc.
On the highways, they are set up rest areas, so pack a picnic lunch and a good book.
Most carjackings here take place at night, on dark streets.
JWR
Hmm. Also from NBC:
Burnspbesq
@Jay:
The vast majority of Electrify America stations are co-located with Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, or Target. Plug in, use the restroom, get snacks and drinks, and off you go. At least that’s how it’s supposed to work, but EA has reliability problems out the wazoo.
Ken
@Baud: @HumboldtBlue: And, can I use those state laws to prevent companies from sending me postcards urging me to buy an extended powertrain warranty package from them?
Burnspbesq
@Baud:
I don’t see it as a 1A issue. J.D. Power’s problem is that unless it get owners’ contact info from the manufacturer/importer, it doesn’t know who to survey. Virtually everyone in the industry provides that info voluntarily.
JWR
Once again, this time with a link.
Wow, sh*t’s really getting thick tonight!
different-church-lady
@JWR: Oh, gosh, what a shame!
Old School
Well, that could be anybody.
UncleEbeneezer
@Old School: Maybe he meant Tony Danza!
Fake Irishman
@FastEdD:
Glad to hear you had a good experience with the Mach-E. My wife just got one a month ago. we love it so far.
one pedal driving takes a bit of getting used to, but it’s a cool concept.
Bupalos
@rikyrah: yes there are better choices than tesla. But there aren’t really worse choices than continuing to burn fossil fuels. So I hope Elmo’s various Nazi/con-man hijinks don’t dent ev’s. Far better to drive a tesla than 95% of what’s on the road.
Old School
@UncleEbeneezer: Springsteen!
Bupalos
@Burnspbesq: best value is probably an practically unused “used” 2000- bolt that sat around waiting for a new battery under recall. $4000 off the purchase, one of the cheapest cars you could buy and they are awesome.
And I expect the relaunched ’24 Bolt will be best new value, as the 20-23 were.
Subsole
@oatler:
Nothing he can do is right
He’d even like to sleep at night
But he can’t
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
My understanding of the criticism is that there’s a lot of prestige within the company in being involved in a new product rollout, regardless of the long-term success of the product. Being on the release team for a new product, even one that disappears shortly after release, is still better for your career prospects than serving as a maintainer for an important product like GMail. The net result is that all but the most important products wind up being starved for talent.
This seems like mostly a management problem. If they really wanted those products to survive long-term, they would figure out how to do something about it, either trying to boost the prestige (or at least salary) of maintainers or just not letting product developers move on to other products shortly after release.
Another Scott
@Baud: The Reuters story says that the new stations will have the Tesla – NACS – and the standard CCS plugs that most others use (no mention of the weird one used by Nissan Leafs – CHAdeMO – that I saw).
Cheers,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@JWR:
Damn, May is already really close to Election Day as it is
Roger Moore
@JWR:
If the underlying offense is enough to send you to prison for the rest of your life, there’s very little reason not to try to destroy evidence. The up side is that you’ll succeed and stay out of prison. The down side is you’ll get a sentence that will last a few more years longer than your remaining life.
Bupalos
@Roger Moore: drive them. Tesla has no noticeable advantage in electric drive. Tesla’s are elegantly designed and a few design features make production easier. But they simply aren’t making measurably better electric cars than anyone else on any important metric, and that sales share should plummet. Their only real advantave is not being tied to dealer networks and not advertising. Those are real advantages though.
smith
@Roger Moore: I don’t believe for a minute that TFG thought at all about possible penalties when he ordered the evidence destroyed. As usual with him, he thought of what he wanted at the moment, ordered it done, and expected to pay no price at all.
Tony G
@different-church-lady: In my innocence, I can’t understand why that is not a felony that Musk should be prosecuted for.
Mousebumples
I’m doing scones with raspberries from the garden.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, better batteries and faster charging are coming. ArsTechnica.com:
Dunno if the claims hold up, nor if they can produce them at a mass-market price, but it shows that there are still a lot of improvements to EVs coming. It’s hard to see Tesla leading the way to that future – not with Melon as the head.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: Dead thread, but I’m kinda reminded of the Model T’s glory days. Whenever Henry felt the competition was getting too close, he would cut the Model T’s price to make it harder for competitors to survive. Google tells me: 1908 – $850, 1916 – $360.
Eventually, low prices weren’t enough. People wanted better, more modern, cars from GM and others, and were willing to pay more for them. Halberstam’s “The Reckoning” talks about this (in some detail. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken_L
@Another Scott: And today a model T in good condition is worth tens of thousands! Value is just a social construct!
fancycwabs
Best I can tell Twitter was a social media network, and 𝕏 is a child pornography / fascism site.
As such, I’m getting the hell off the child pornography / fascism site as soon as I can delete everything I ever posted there prior to it becoming a child pornography / fascism site.