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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Dank Grey Dawn Open Thread: Can the Banks Defenestrate Musk Before He Kills Twitter Completely?

Dank Grey Dawn Open Thread: Can the Banks Defenestrate Musk Before He Kills Twitter Completely?

by Anne Laurie|  October 6, 20234:20 am| 61 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Excellent Links, Show Us on the Doll Where the Invisible Hand Touched You, Tech News & Issues, Lock Him Up...Lock Them All Up, social media

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in elon’s eternal wisdom, he’s decided that removing everything but the image from link previews will keep people from clicking and thus leaving twitter

in reality i’m now much more likely to click the link since i have to go there to see what i once could get from the preview

— Molly White (@molly0xFFF) October 5, 2023

Defenestrate Musk - STOCKPILE

Commentary: Twitter is at death’s door, one year after Elon Musk’s takeover https://t.co/XMat52sE4b

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) October 5, 2023


The smart money says All popular social media platforms eventually collapse, but as a devout Cynic (not to mention an Irish-American), I take some consolation in watching the public humiliation of the sociopath responsible for destroying this particular global public square. Per Rolling Stone:

…[Y]ou’d be hard pressed to name a single improvement to the site under Musk’s direction. His biggest ideas have all blown up in his face: An $8 monthly subscription fee for a blue check that verified users then needed the option of hiding to avoid mockery. The abandonment of a valuable brand name and logo in favor of the meaningless “X,” which prompted a trademark lawsuit and led to the installation of a garish metal X structure on the roof of Twitter’s office — city inspectors had it removed just days later. Musk’s latest move is to have headlines stripped from article links, leaving only an image and media source, which he seems to believe looks better and will keep users scrolling. But for those who follow news on the app, it makes X that much more pointless…

These days, when you mention Musk’s countless blunders in running X, you get a standard retort from his defenders. It doesn’t matter if you’re taking stock of his mounting desperation (like when he begged Taylor Swift to release music on the platform), or a technical fail that reveals an infrastructure coming apart at the seams (such as a frozen livestream at the U.S.-Mexico border, where he’d put on his cowboy hat to grandstand as an anti-immigration ideologue, a glitch that prompted him to send an email reading “Please fix this” to all employees). The reply is always more or less the same: If Twitter is really dying, why are you still posting on it?

It’s a fair question, even if it dodges the issue of Musk’s rank incompetence. I suppose a mixture of spite and morbid curiosity goes a long way toward keeping a person like me around. On the other hand, it’s not my first time having an online community hollowed out by a hostile force, and there’s something to be said for making the most of the end with your remaining friends — sharing gallows humor and a sense of humanity as the situation continues to devolve…

Musk is not without his salesmanship, which, combined with unconditional, breathless hype from supporters, has kept alive the notion of his entrepreneurial and innovative genius. He and this audience are both expending more energy each day on flat denials of grim headlines and vague assurances that X is actually “thriving” like never before. Sooner or later, that magical thinking will run ashore on reality, and until then, yes, the site will survive — but in a state of waking demise, with a user base divided between those cannibalizing what’s left and the stunned spectators.

That can hardly be mistaken for a healthy, habitable public forum, let alone an asset that could one day turn a profit. It offers the illusion of life, however, in arguments, abuse, recriminations, and disgust. The paradox of what used to be Twitter is that it is now sustained by little except the mutual contempt of hardened combatants fighting for an inch of territory. Nobody wants to cede the ground.

Also, there’s always the hope of a truly spectacular final implosion:

Like a financial black hole, X threatens to consume most of whatever value it once had, says @jennifersaba https://t.co/NCvdLotbZy pic.twitter.com/QxzqD98Gm8

— Reuters Breakingviews (@Breakingviews) October 3, 2023

… Despite Musk’s big pronouncements about pushing into subscriptions, X has historically relied on advertising, which contributed over 90% of revenue when it was a public company. But that business is spiraling, and the platform’s shifting policies could threaten more branding deals. In July, Musk posted that cash flow was negative because of a 50% drop in advertising sales.

The apparent strategic disconnect between the company’s ad-focused chief executive and its subscription-hungry owner comes as valuations are falling. TikTok parent ByteDance was recently valued at $224 billion, down by about a quarter from a year ago, the Information reported. Disappearing messaging app Snap’s (SNAP.N) market value has slumped by more than 10% over the past year.

Put it all together, and X isn’t just worth less than Musk paid for it, but likely less than its debt. Assume that the company’s revenue last year was $4.7 billion, based on results before it was taken private. If advertising has dropped by half, then this year’s sales should be a bit over $2.5 billion. Put that on the same enterprise-value-to-sales multiple as Snap, which is down to a mere 3 times, and X is worth around $8 billion.

The company is so far covering its hefty interest payments of $300 million per quarter, and Yaccarino sees profitable days ahead. But between Musk’s impromptu product shifts and the need to woo back advertisers, her task is daunting. If things deteriorate further, the company’s bankers – already nursing billions in on-paper losses – face the prospect of taking back the keys to a diminished platform that is worth less than even their claim on it. Like a financial black hole, X threatens to consume most of whatever value it once had.

X user: i personally dislike this change to the platform and am basing my opinion on what i see with my own two eyes

Elon Musk: wow, just believing the media smdh pic.twitter.com/vdcvU1arA0

— Matt Binder (@MattBinder) October 5, 2023

Life (defined as the quintessentially human desire to communicate) finds a way around any barrier:

considering also superimposing “THIS IS A LINK” on all my social share images now 🙄 https://t.co/iw7y17ugym

— Molly White (@molly0xFFF) October 5, 2023

They’re gonna get that guy who repossesses planes from drug dealers to change the passwords on Elons work account.

— crabjuice410 (@crabjuice410) October 5, 2023

Don’t think Twitter fully thought through the consequences of this change pic.twitter.com/JQZwEYkeuZ

— Aidan McLaughlin (@aidnmclaughlin) October 5, 2023

one thing I would really like to know when all the dust settles, is how many years of revenue Morgan Stanley’s losses on this financing end up giving back for the very well regarded tech advisory team. https://t.co/eu9LoxX5Fa

— Dan Davies (@dsquareddigest) October 5, 2023

The banking sector could redeem itself for 2008 with one action https://t.co/PU6a9YHSlm

— Environmental Services Weedle (@PartyWurmple) October 5, 2023

As WaterGirl posted earlier, looks like the SEC might be nudging Musk, also…

SEC sues Elon Musk to force his testimony in Twitter takeover probe https://t.co/UYbEqLIygy

— WTF (@elzey_t) October 5, 2023

I think it’s kind of hilarious that Musk, filled with angst about how buying the playground didn’t buy him any friends, is now basically deciding that he’ll just pave it all over and forget about it. If he’s picked last, then screw it, no one plays any games on that sandlot. https://t.co/LLMEBYRql2

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) October 5, 2023

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Reader Interactions

61Comments

  1. 1.

    AlaskaReader

    October 5, 2023 at 2:34 am

    Don’t look now but word is that Musk wears lifts.

  2. 2.

    Rathskeller

    October 5, 2023 at 2:38 am

    It seems like the likeliest thing is for the Saudis to quietly buy out the banks. They have made a multi-year effort to subvert Twitter. And they don’t give a fuck about the anti-semitism on the site or its hostility to democracy.

    I’d love to see Elon tarred and feathered but he can also just buy out the banks himself.

    No justice or hope on this one.

  3. 3.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 5, 2023 at 2:45 am

    @AlaskaReader: I googled, and yeah, it seems so: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdid-anyone-else-notice-the-odd-size-of-elons-boots-seems-v0-kswxdnfbnb7b1.jpg%3Fs%3Dd8167574d1f92a72762ef827737d82ad16905423

  4. 4.

    TriassicSands

    October 5, 2023 at 2:48 am

    Isn’t supporting Twitter/X the same thing as supporting Musk?

  5. 5.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2023 at 2:54 am

    Well I’m one of the no longer on twit. Left early on and now can not even read anything on the site, so if an X is posted on this site I can only read/watch it here, I get a blank screen if I click on the link. IOW it is totally useless. Not that it was worth a lot prior and it’s saved me a bit of time, never having to click on a twit ever again.

    I’d bet I’m not the only one that actually feels like elon did me a favor, a $44billion favor……

  6. 6.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 5, 2023 at 2:54 am

    @TriassicSands: Read it via nitter.  Block all twitter cookies.  Then he can neither track you, nor serve you ads.  Done and dusted.

  7. 7.

    Damien

    October 5, 2023 at 2:59 am

    Elon Musk is the Forrest Gump of fascists, and nobody can convince me otherwise

  8. 8.

    Jay

    October 5, 2023 at 3:02 am

    @Damien:

    Have you talked to Forrest Gump?

  9. 9.

    Jay

    October 5, 2023 at 3:03 am

    @AlaskaReader:

    LMFAO, topical today.

  10. 10.

    Msb

    October 5, 2023 at 3:04 am

    Don’t mention Musk’s cowboy hat without noting that he wore it backwards the whole time. And nobody told him. 

  11. 11.

    Jay

    October 5, 2023 at 3:06 am

    @Msb: They didn’t tell him about the proper orientation on the horse either.

  12. 12.

    AlaskaReader

    October 5, 2023 at 3:08 am

    @TriassicSands: How is that even a question?

  13. 13.

    West of the Rockies

    October 5, 2023 at 3:09 am

    So advertising is down 50%.  Has it rebounded?  Have user numbers dropped as precipitously?  If the answer is yes to both questions and glitches and bad user experiences abound, X should fade away or go up in flames.

  14. 14.

    TriassicSands

    October 5, 2023 at 3:10 am

    @AlaskaReader:

    You tell me

    (Though, generally, mine was what is known as a rhetorical question.)

  15. 15.

    piratedan

    October 6, 2023 at 4:50 am

    it’ll remain a viable concern for quite some time, inertia is a real thing… sports teams, we rate dogs, certain business and public entities are STILL using it.  As long as the big hitters keep allowing their follower counts to be the deciding factor, they’ll stay.  Rebuilding networks costs time and none of the other social media rivals offers the existing base that exists on X/Twitter.

    Not sure what else the guy has to do to drive away users, I mean he’s promoted Nazis and racists, he’s attempted to insert himself into everyone’s feeds, he’s crapped on 3rd party developers and come up with nothing new to offer users other than to dubiously charge for verification/validation and now is torqueing additional misinformation by screwing with headlines.

    It’s like a headless cockroach.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 5:04 am

     if you’re taking stock of his mounting desperation (like when he begged Taylor Swift to release music on the platform

    Cuz that worked so well for Ron DeSantis.

  17. 17.

    AlaskaReader

    October 6, 2023 at 5:05 am

    @TriassicSands:

    Isn’t supporting Twitter/X the same thing as supporting Musk?

    There is no question, that if you support Twitter, the entity it has become, you are by extension, supporting Musk in his aims.

    Same as if you vote with the Republican Party, you thus have thrown willing and compliant support to Trump.

    Twitter is not now some iteration of what it might once have aspired to, just as the Republican Party today bears no relation to what it once may have been motivated by.

  18. 18.

    Tony Jay

    October 6, 2023 at 5:23 am

    “Lordy be. You hear that that there maverick pistol-spinner The Backhat Kid done rode into Twittertown at the head of the notorious The Fluffer Gang and burned the whole damned place to the ground? Yup. The General Store, the Saloon, hell, they even threw dynamite into the Bank, and that was where he kept all his own money in the first place. Why’d he do it? Who can say? Ask the girls at the Bordello and they just laugh into their dainties. Everyone else already done packed up their wagons and mosied over the other side of the valley. Blueskyville or St Zucks’ll take them in, and they got Sheriffs there who The Kid don’t want to mess with, especially not now the Federal Marshalls are on his trail. Darndest thing.”

    “That’s very interesting, Mr Cletus, but I’ll keep that to one side for my Dime Novel. What the readers of the Old Grey Gazette really want to know about is how concerned you are that the President out East is old and his Party are meanies?”

  19. 19.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2023 at 5:37 am

    @AlaskaReader

    X spots the mark. And to anyone by now still on the platform, or vicariously promoting it via embeds, the mark is you.

  20. 20.

    Jay

    October 6, 2023 at 5:45 am

    @Tony Jay:

    clap, clap, clap,……

  21. 21.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    October 6, 2023 at 5:46 am

    This is why I only get the news from triple X sites

  22. 22.

    Ksmiami

    October 6, 2023 at 6:00 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: those sites definitely have a both sides perspective 😳

  23. 23.

    Anne Laurie

    October 6, 2023 at 6:01 am

    @AlaskaReader: There is no question, that if you support Twitter, the entity it has become, you are by extension, supporting Musk in his aims.

    Except — I will keep saying this — it’s still the best way, at least for me at this time, to keep up with & share information here.

    I’m hoping some other platform (BlueSky, for personal preference) will be able to duplicate twitter’s now-spotty functionality, especially for news sites and foreign sources.

    It’s like the argument that paying my taxes enables the government to commit terrible crimes:  True, and yet I’m still gonna pay my taxes.

  24. 24.

    Chris Johnson

    October 6, 2023 at 6:09 am

    Just go to bluesky

    bsky-social-xt2ya-ujbkl

    bsky-social-uasec-j6o3h

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2023 at 6:09 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Talcum powder for the anchor! Stat!
    //

  26. 26.

    Chris Johnson

    October 6, 2023 at 6:10 am

    I mean, it’s not foundationally different, it’s just ‘that, but Elon didn’t buy this one’, and if they have a lifecycle, it’s in bloom and hasn’t died and rotted yet.

  27. 27.

    Princess

    October 6, 2023 at 6:11 am

    @Anne Laurie: I have zero problems with you cannibalizing Twitter for our edification and amusement. It keeps a lot of us from having to go there ourselves. I do roll my eyes though at some of the justifications I read from people who still want to hang out there. Twitter is a Nazi bar. It’s one thing to collect info and get out. It’s another thing to hang around drinking and chatting there. Some may find this too fine a line to draw, but it’s my line.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2023 at 6:15 am

    @Anne Laurie

    The two are nothing alike. One is a voluntary decision, the other is a legal obligation.

  29. 29.

    gene108

    October 6, 2023 at 6:17 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    Nothing’s really come along that can replace Twitter/X. 15 years of building up users and functionality isn’t going away overnight, despite Musk’s best efforts.

    New Twitter-knock offs trying to replace X seem to be taking time to be the replacement for X, or whatever social media space X has will just fracture to a bunch of smaller knock offs.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 6:21 am

    @Chris Johnson:

    Thanks.  I’m baud20xx.bsky.social.

  31. 31.

    Anne Laurie

    October 6, 2023 at 6:38 am

    @Chris Johnson: I’m *on* BlueSky, and for my ‘personal’ reading, I love it — many of the people I most enjoyed on twitter have moved there!  I’m even, slowly, training myself to ‘like’ and even occasionally ‘reply’ to their… comments (skeets?  ugh.)

    But until the site has (a) an embed function, and (b) more major media participation, it can’t work for my posts here the way twitter does.

  32. 32.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    October 6, 2023 at 6:42 am

    @NotMax: umm… some links are better left unckicked.

  33. 33.

    satby

    October 6, 2023 at 6:49 am

    @Anne Laurie: and until key international players (like the Ukrainian defenders) move over to another site, as well as the big international news orgs move too. Slowly, it’s looking like Blue Sky may be the “new” twitter, but still too much stuff on the old site.

    Which is still readable with active blocking of ads and bad actors, and that costs Elon $. He complains about the overhead blocking costs, but can’t eliminate it or it’ll be removed from app stores.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 6:53 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    You are being followed.

  35. 35.

    satby

    October 6, 2023 at 6:55 am

    @Baud: and here I was saving an invite code for you 😉

    Still have two, if anyone wants one. Tablet’s about to lose all charge, email me at skinluvvers at gmail if you want one.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 7:07 am

    @satby:

    What’s your handle?

  37. 37.

    MagdaInBlack

    October 6, 2023 at 7:12 am

    @Baud: 10-4 there, good buddy, whats yer handle?  I’m having mid 70’s cb radio flashbacks.

  38. 38.

    satby

    October 6, 2023 at 7:12 am

    @Baud: @sbarrt, same as on Twitter

  39. 39.

    Kristine

    October 6, 2023 at 7:12 am

    Friends who run Kickstarters, own small presses and other publishing-related small businesses, have had the rug pulled out since Twitter imploded. Networks/audiences that took years to build have been fragmented. That bastard destroyed so much.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 7:19 am

    @satby:

    👍

  41. 41.

    Geo Wilcox

    October 6, 2023 at 7:31 am

    @AlaskaReader: I thought he used a plastic box like that McHenry turd.

  42. 42.

    catclub

    October 6, 2023 at 7:37 am

    @West of the Rockies: ​
      I am actually surprised and irritated when people who should have left are still on it.

  43. 43.

    Baud

    October 6, 2023 at 7:39 am

    @catclub:

    Threads decided not to compete with Twitter, so that was a bust.

    We’ll see what happens when BlueSky opens up and you don’t need an invite code anymore.

  44. 44.

    Anne Laurie

    October 6, 2023 at 7:40 am

    @Geo Wilcox: : I thought he used a plastic box like that McHenry turd.

    DeSantis wears cowboy boots, even though he says they make his feet hurt,  because his wife wants him to wear them.

    I get the impression that at least 60% of Ron DeSaster’s 2024 presidential run is that Casey DeSantis feels she can’t wait unil 2028 to be the next Jackie Kennedy.

  45. 45.

    MisterDancer

    October 6, 2023 at 7:43 am

    @Kristine: Friends who run Kickstarters, own small presses and other publishing-related small businesses, have had the rug pulled out since Twitter imploded. Networks/audiences that took years to build have been fragmented.

    ABSOLUTELY, and this should be underlined. “We” talk a good game about America being all supportive of small businesses, and then we let those businesses flounder in a sea of detritus.

    We are losing so many good ideas, so many powerful and potentially life-changing concepts, to a growing sea of bigoted and money-worshiping people.

    Some days, it really gets to you.

  46. 46.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 6, 2023 at 7:47 am

    What the Hell happened to Musk’s face?  This isn’t “Ha ha he’s ugly” it’s “He is decaying before our eyes.”  I’ve seen hate carve people, but never so fast.  He’s turning into haggard leather.  He looks a little like Trump now.  Is he hitting drugs hard, do you think?

  47. 47.

    schrodingers_cat

    October 6, 2023 at 7:56 am

    @Anne Laurie: I second this. Twitter is the only way I can keep with what is happening in India and that to me is more important than virtue signaling to Balloon Juice commenters. There is simply no other alternative out there where I can get news from India that is not government propaganda beside YouTube. YouTube is not a two street like Twitter is. I have linked with many political activists in India via Twitter. I can also use my Hindi and Marathi to converse with other Indians. That is  priceless.
    So the positives of being on Twitter still outweigh the negatives.

  48. 48.

    MisterDancer

    October 6, 2023 at 8:08 am

    @AlaskaReader: There is no question, that if you support Twitter, the entity it has become, you are by extension, supporting Musk in his aims.

    There is no Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism.

    AL and S_C make great points. And I say this as someone who is on the record here as not only having very openly left Twitter the day Musk was forced to buy, but saying that Twitter is now, top-down, a system for spreading bigotry to the masses, the kind of bigotry that harms me and mine.

    But so many don’t see that. The entities AL uses to get news for this site, and the people S_C interacts with? They likely haven’t the capacity to move to a new social media en masse (yes, even Big Media). They are trapped and Muck leeches off them like the asshole he is, which is why he’s always up in famous people’s tweets, desperate for both validation and engagement from them.

    I made a choice, and I stand by it, to leave Twitter. I will continue to warn people of the dangers of that service. But I also cannot fault people who’s lives depends on data from that service, who lack the power and clout to drive migration, from still using it.

  49. 49.

    Righteous Hazard

    October 6, 2023 at 8:38 am

    @Anne Laurie: It seems like you are saying “best = most convenient”.

    Which is not a bad argument. The inertia of so many news outlets and big accounts on x is not something you or anyone else can reasonably be asked to throw away.

    But it is still a fascist’s website, and the thing about nazis is you have to do the hard thing sooner or later. Opting for later has its benefits, no doubt, but only if you are not one of the people the nazis are harming.

  50. 50.

    Ken

    October 6, 2023 at 8:44 am

    I do hope that if the banks (or whoever) take control, they also get the x.com domain name — just because Musk has squatted on that for decades, trying to find something to attach to it, and would be really irritated at losing it.

  51. 51.

    bcw

    October 6, 2023 at 8:59 am

    Maybe AOL can come to the rescue and buy Elon out.

  52. 52.

    Denali5

    October 6, 2023 at 9:07 am

    I left Twitter because I could not be associated with what it became. Thanks for the invite to BlueSky. I’ll try it.

  53. 53.

    Ohio Mom

    October 6, 2023 at 9:53 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I think that what a lot of people overlook is that there are many Twitter-universes out there.

    Your example of the world of Indian Twitter users is an example. Another is disability and other minority communities Twitter; I imagine most academic disciplines have a Twitter community where the members talk shop, the list goes on.

    The world would not be all that diminished if snarky political observation and echo-chamber Twitter disappeared, there are plenty of other outlets for that. But I think that is what people are talking about when they say, Eh, Twitter won’t be missed.

  54. 54.

    RAM

    October 6, 2023 at 9:57 am

    Have to admit I’m impressed by Twitter’s resilience in the face of the Crashing Boer’s year-long repeated efforts to kill the site. I thought it would be belly-up long before now…

  55. 55.

    Chris Johnson

    October 6, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @Baud: Nice :D I let Baud into Bluesky! First bluesky, next the world :D

  56. 56.

    piratedan

    October 6, 2023 at 11:14 am

    in case there are any late arrivals to the thread, drop a note here and I can direct you to one of my two bluesky invites

  57. 57.

    Chris Johnson

    October 6, 2023 at 11:16 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yes. He’s on ketamine and who knows what else, has evangelized for ket.

    Don’t do ket. If you’re going to do psychedelics do acid or mushrooms, not horse tranquilizers. For fuck’s sake. Ket is for horses.

  58. 58.

    LiminalOwl

    October 6, 2023 at 12:42 pm

    @Chris Johnson: Don’t do K recreationally, sure. But it does seem to be clinically effective, for depression and PTSD.

    I’m still betting psilocybin will turn out more effective, but it’s not an approved treatment yet.

  59. 59.

    Bill Arnold

    October 6, 2023 at 12:59 pm

    @NotMax:

    The two are nothing alike. One is a voluntary decision, the other is a legal obligation.

    This is false. It is a choice to have enough income to be required to pay Federal income tax.
    Several decades ago I knew someone, an actual committed pacifist, who deliberately kept their income below that threshold because they did not want to be responsible for the USA’s war machinery. He kept it up for at least a few years; lost track. I imagine he got tired of couch surfing, but may have arranged for some situation with a more comfortable lifestyle.
    Those who have made the choice to pay Federal income taxes bear some responsibility for the actions of the USA government, including the vile actions.

  60. 60.

    Another Scott

    October 6, 2023 at 1:20 pm

    I don’t remember enough about the terms of the purchase, but lending and ownership are two different things. As long as Melon is making the loan payments, and satisfying the loan terms (which usually don’t include anything except pay me on time, AFAIK), the banksters can’t do anything. The owners could force Melon to do things differently, but AFAIK, Melon is the owner.

    IANAbankster.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    Ruckus

    October 6, 2023 at 3:19 pm

    @Damien:

    Why are you bad mouthing Forrest Gump?

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