Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

Tick tock motherfuckers!

When I was faster i was always behind.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

How stupid are these people?

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Thursday Night Open Thread: Just A Little Light Treason

Thursday Night Open Thread: Just A Little Light Treason

by | 41 Comments

This post is in: , , , ,

Donald Trump, friend to all billionaires:

Months after leaving the White House, former President Donald Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarines with a member of his Mar-a-Lago Club — an Australian billionaire who then allegedly shared the information with scores of others, including more than a dozen foreign officials, several of his own employees, and a handful of journalists, according to sources familiar with the matter.

The potential disclosure was reported to special counsel Jack Smith’s team as they investigated Trump’s alleged hoarding of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, the sources told ABC News. The information could shed further light on Trump’s handling of sensitive government secrets…

According to Pratt’s account, as described by the sources, Pratt told Trump he believed Australia should start buying its submarines from the United States, to which an excited Trump — “leaning” toward Pratt as if to be discreet — then told Pratt two pieces of information about U.S. submarines: the supposed exact number of nuclear warheads they routinely carry, and exactly how close they supposedly can get to a Russian submarine without being detected.

In emails and conversations after meeting with Trump, Pratt described Trump’s remarks to at least 45 others, including six journalists, 11 of his company’s employees, 10 Australian officials, and three former Australian prime ministers, the sources told ABC News.

While Pratt told investigators he couldn’t tell if what Trump said about U.S. submarines was real or just bluster, investigators nevertheless asked Pratt not to repeat the numbers that Trump allegedly told him, suggesting the information could be too sensitive to relay further, ABC News was told.

Prosecutors and FBI agents have at least twice this year interviewed the Mar-a-Lago member, Anthony Pratt, who runs U.S.-based Pratt Industries, one of the world’s largest packaging companies.

It’s unclear if the information was accurate, but the episode was investigated by Smith’s team.

Sources said another witness, one of Trump’s former employees at Mar-a-Lago, told investigators that, within minutes of Pratt’s meeting with Trump, he heard Pratt relaying to someone else some of what Trump had just said…

Pratt told investigators Trump didn’t show him any government documents during their April 2021 meeting, nor at any other time they crossed paths at Mar-a-Lago, sources said.

Mr. Pratt has no intention whatsoever of getting mixed up in the American court system — hearsay is one thing, admitting to having *seen* classified information is much more liable to get one prosecuted.

(Maybe the two bonded over hair-care issues… )

Reader Interactions

41Comments

  2. 2.

    Chetan Murthy

    @HumboldtBlue: That needs a trigger warning for excessive laughter!  I like to have pulled a cramp, I was laughing so much!  Where’s the upvote button?!?!?!!

  5. 5.

    Jim Appleton

    This like a couple other times where iDJT reads from something in front of him puts the lie to assertions he’s functionally illiterate.

     

    He can read and comprehend, the problem is his lying.

  6. 6.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Jim Appleton: Remember when people said “he doesn’t have theory of mind”, or “he doesn’t understand object permanence” and other equally silly shit?  You have it aright: he knows what’s true and what’s false; he just chooses to lie bullshit and gaslight because it serves his purposes.  We’re the naive fools for interpreting that as mental defect, and not malice.

  11. 11.

    AlaskaReader

    @Chetan Murthy: Still and all, the evident mental defects still exist, they are not canceled because of the additional scheming and lies, he wields his neuroses like blunt instruments instead of trying to suppress them.

    Giving his supporters yet one more excuse to identify with and revel in their mutually shared neuroses.

  12. 12.

    Chetan Murthy

    @AlaskaReader: He’s got mental defects, sure.  He’s slowly going senile, sure.  But the ones I pointed out, are all deduced from his speeches and such, where a much more straightforward reading is that he’s being an excellent salesman.  And as he’s aged, while lots of his mental faculties seem to be slipping, that salesmanship — that isn’t going away anywhere near as fast.

  14. 14.

    AlaskaReader

    @Chetan Murthy: HIs limited customer base comprises those equally as deranged and malicious as he is,

    …in other words, the everyday standard Republican.

    Each and every one of them.

  16. 16.

    Chetan Murthy

    @AlaskaReader: Word.  Word.  I think in 2016 there were some who were just “I always vote Republican”.  But 4yr later, after all that’s happened?  Anybody who’s left is, just as you say, “as deranged and malicious as their avatar Lord Donnie Littlefingers”.

  19. 19.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I just about choked while laughing at that! I’ll have to show my wife that later on. We had a golden retriever incident here at the home today. I was in the garage when I heard some dogs barking, tags jangling and claws on concrete coming down the sidewalk. Our young orange kitty was in front of the garage so I stepped out to see our Chuckie in the front yard all floofed up, tail straight up and back arched, yowling. A guy was trying to walk his doggos down the sidewalk but he wasn’t doing a whole lot to discourage his dogs actions or quickly move on.

    As he passed by our pissed orange cat he was laughing and saying something about how the cats is acting tough. I ignored that and warned him about the 16 lb. pissed off cat of ours named Stewie who was rapidly approaching him from behind. I warned him a couple of times that this cat is very territorial and will fight dogs without hesitation. About that time one of the dogs lunged at him and Stewie stepped right up and tore into it, claws and teeth. The dog backed off yelping, the guy got control of his dogs and moved on, saying “Have a nice day”.

    Our kitties look really good all floofed up but I could do without the drama. Chuckie does not have enough in his ass account to write the check he was trying to write today. Stewie has an overflowing account and this was dog number 8 that he has tangled with.

    All wins. I also tried to discourage it but there is no stopping a pissed off cat.

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    @West of the Rockies

    Twisting of the Arbeit macht frei (Work will set you free) motto above the gates of Auschwitz.

    Not proper German but very roughly put for the sake of comparison, Perfidy comes no strings attached.

  23. 23.

    Brachiator

    I don’t know about any supposed mental defect or Trump acting out of malice, but it is pretty damn clear that he is an insecure, morally deficient man-baby, and has been so most of his life.

    He is an ongoing threat to democracy because the GOP rolled over for him and continues to support him.

    The tragedy is that if Trump dropped out of the presidential race tomorrow, the Republicans eager to replace him are all equally monstrous.

  24. 24.

    gene108

    @Brachiator:

    The tragedy is that if Trump dropped out of the presidential race tomorrow, the Republicans eager to replace him are all equally monstrous.

    The not-Trumps currently running for President do seem to have a basic grasp of how government is supposed to function, and likely wouldn’t blab national secrets to impress Australian billionaires or keep hundreds of classified documents in a guest bathroom or attempt to coup, if one of them lost an election.

    Those little things keep them from being as big a threat democracy as a Trump’s second term would be.

    Personally, I don’t think anything will come out of this except as another data point on how big a threat Trump is to national security.

  26. 26.

    TS

    JCA and all that – the billionaires of the world just want to remove government entirely and run any country as they see fit.

    In 2019, Australia signed a contract  for $35billion with FRANCE for building 12 submarines (which later was referred to as a $70 billion contract?) On 16th September 2021 the then PM (right wing trump supporter Scott Morrison) announced a switch to nuclear powered submarines

    Early on the morning of 16 September Australia time, Morrison, in a joint virtual address with US president Joe Biden and UK prime minister Boris Johnson, announced the switch to nuclear-powered submarines.

    Defence minister Peter Dutton has said Naval Group’s Attack-class submarines were no longer suited to the nation’s operational needs, and that the government had been “upfront, open and honest” with France about its decision.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/29/australia-tore-up-french-submarine-contract-for-convenience-naval-group-says

    So apart  from the Trump security issues it seems most likely that an Australian $$$ man may well have had a massive influence on Australian policy. Needless to say, this is of great interest to Australians and yet another thing never disclosed to the people of Australia by the then PM Mr Morrison (read up on him in wiki for a person who fell way to high in the political world).

    In June 2022 – the new Labor government of Australia paid a penalty.

    Aukus pact: Australia pays $830m penalty for ditching non-nuclear French submarines

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/29/australia-tore-up-french-submarine-contract-for-convenience-naval-group-says

    Mr. Pratt has no intention whatsoever of getting mixed up in the American court system — hearsay is one thing, admitting to having *seen* classified information is much more liable to get one prosecuted.

    I sincerely hope Mr Pratt gets mixed up in the US court and everything that follows from that. I know little about him, his father was more well known as the $$$ businessman in Australia

  27. 27.

    AlaskaReader

    @gene108: Having ‘a grasp of how government works’ has no bearing whatsoever on what every one of them would do to subvert and destabilize that same government.

    Not a one of them has any redeeming value whatsoever.

  28. 28.

    mrmoshpotato

    This just keeps getting better and better.

    BUT HER EMAILS! you stupid, stupid children.  Another slow clap for the selfish assholes.

  29. 29.

    TriassicSands

    …Trump’s alleged hoarding of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago,,,

    Note: I know that journalistic standards require the use of that language, however ridiculous it is in this case.

    It seems a little silly to refer to Trump’s hoarding of classified documents as “alleged.” Are we to believe that Jack Smith planted them in Trump’s bathroom without TIFG’s knowledge? Or than someone else sneaked them into the bathroom without Trump noticing? Trump’s own words have been admissions of guilt.

    This also applies to Trump’s “innocence until proven guilty.” After all we’ve seen and heard directly from Trump himself, are we to believe that he is innocent of all charges on January 6? That some exculpating explanation will miraculously appear to exonerate him?  No, I couldn’t serve on a jury  for Trump, since I’ve followed his career, as well as his reign of crime and incompetence. I’ve seen and heard him incite cult members to riot in the Capitol and try to stop the certification of the election. If called for jury duty, I would be bound by the oath to admit that I have no doubt of his guilt and there is no conceivable evidence that could be presented in court that would allow me to vote to acquit him except convincing evidence that he is certifiably mentally ill and must be institutionalized for his own and our protection. Since Trump would never offer a plea of not guilty by reason of mental illness and no one is likely ever to force him to submit to psychiatric evealuation, that doesn’t seem to be an out for him. The only possible out that I can imagine for Trump here is that the laws are so perversely written that there are loopholes big enough to drive Trump’s bloated belly through. I suppose that’s possible. But, in the end, I would vote to convict because I know what a threat he poses and that he has to be stopped. At this point, conviction is probably the best way to achieve that, since it’s hard to imagine anything good coming of a second Biden-Trump election, even if Biden trounced him. Yes, that would be good, but there might be untold collateral damage.

    The above applies to the January 6 indictment and is equally true for the documents case. I could serve on his civil jury in NY, since I am not aware of the intimate details of the case, but I still might not pass muster since I know what a dishonest scumbag he is and have no doubt he would inflate the value of his property (nothing is more Trumpian than that) and commit fraud by doing so.

    In Georgia, I’ve heard the phone call and all the rest of Trump’s dishonest claims, as well as his actions, so, again, I couldn’t serve on his jury there. I can’t imagine what excuse there would be that would provide exoneration for someone who calls a Secretary of State and tells him he needs to find, what, 10,780 votes and goes on to threaten the SoS if he doesn’t.

    One thing that troubles me is that, apart from a cult member lying to get on a jury, the only people who can fairly judge Trump’s guilt or innocence are those who haven’t paid any attention at all in the past several years. Are those the kind of people anyone would want to judge us if we were, in fact, innocent?

    The most basic reason I couldn’t be on a Trump jury is because I seriously doubt I could sit in the jury box and not, at some point, shout “You are a lying piece of shit, you fucking fascist.”

    Four acquittals would have no effect on my opinion that Trump is guilty, and, I suspect, I’m not alone in that. End of rant.

  30. 30.

    piratedan

    @mrmoshpotato: its kind of amazing how that evolved didn’t it?  Anyone with any sense understood that HRC hadn’t mishandled data, she had other people send her stuff without marking it appropriately and because she had a private server (instead of the already hacked DOD e-mail server presence) it was all helpfully misconstrued that she had something to hide or had done something wrong etc etc etc.

    You compare that with the number of threads that have yet to be pulled by the mainstream media around J6 and it really illustrates how in the tank the MSM is for Republicans.

  31. 31.

    Anne Laurie

    @TriassicSands: One thing that troubles me is that, apart from a cult member lying to get on a jury, the only people who can fairly judge Trump’s guilt or innocence are those who haven’t paid any attention at all in the past several years. Are those the kind of people anyone would want to judge us if we were, in fact, innocent?

    Several articles I’ve read about the FTX / SBF trial have mentioned that the judge told potential jurors they didn’t have to be unaware of the (various) issues, they just had to affirm they’d listen with an open mind.  I sincerely hope Trump’s judges do the same!

  32. 32.

    TriassicSands

    @Anne Laurie:

    Could you do that? I couldn’t.

    Of course, that is the correct direction to give to jurors, but of those who have paid attention — here, I include the cult members, who simply ignore anything negative about Trump or turn it into something good — are there really any thoughtful people who haven’t come to a conclusion about Trump’s guilt or innocence? I don’t know a single person, pro or con, who hasn’t already made up their mind.

    I realize that the BJ mob is a special case, but after many years of reading comments here about Trump, I couldn’t honestly point to anyone who I think would have an open mind about Trump’s guilt or innocence. Maybe there are lurkers who couldn’t honestly make it onto a jury.

  33. 33.

    satby

    @Anne Laurie: @TriassicSands: potential jurors are instructed that what they are to consider is only the evidence and arguments presented at trial, and to make their judgement from that alone. Voir dire is where the lawyers for each side try to detect who could reasonably abide by that instruction, or who is too prejudiced either way to serve. So you can hear a lot about a case or the accused without getting knocked out of the jury pool. 

    And in modern high profile trials like these, they’ll have looked at any social media or public statements for true believers in either side to dismiss. Probably have some psychological profile questions too.

  35. 35.

    TriassicSands

    @Princess: He’s bad, not stupid.

    I have to disagree with that because I think it erroneously assumes that intelligence is a monolithic, single dimension quality. I would argue that the evidence strongly suggests that that isn’t true.

    People can be smart in some ways and complete idiots in others. I would characterize Trump as more devious and manipulative that smart. He constantly says and does things that are incredibly stupid.

    On the other hand, there is no way in which Trump is good. He is, as you say, bad. Rotten to the core with no identifiable positive qualities, especially since everything he says and does is in the service of crime, dishonesty, and cruelty.

  36. 36.

    wjca

    @Chetan Murthy: he knows what’s true and what’s false; he just chooses to lie bullshit and gaslight because it serves his purposes

    I have been reading Moscow Rules by Keir Giles.  One of the bits of Russian culture that he talks about is truth and lying.  He says that the language distinguishes between “what is officially said” (pravda) and “what is actually true” (istina).  A longstanding part of the culture involves saying things which the speaker knows are untrue, the audience knows are untrue, and the speaker knows the audience knows.  It is an exercise in dominance — to force the audience to, at least publicly, accept lies as truth.

    As in various other areas: everything is zero-sum (if I win, you must lose and vis versa), anything bad that happens is the result of an outside conspiracy, bribing someone (even just to do the job they are paid to do) is expected, the law is whatever the person with more power says it is, apparent altruism is just a deep ploy to gain advantage.  TIFG just seems, in his approach to the world, so very Russian.

  37. 37.

    trnc

    You know, I really don’t like Kid Rock, but at least he had the good sense to know that he shouldn’t be shown classified info and I suspect that he didn’t divulge any details of what he was shown. Compare that to a billionaire lunatic who went out and apparently told everyone he could find. JFC!

  38. 38.

    wjca

    @Brachiator: The tragedy is that if Trump dropped out of the presidential race tomorrow, the Republicans eager to replace him are all equally monstrous.

    Yes, but.  Unless Trump really pushed his cult followers (the people who aren’t otherwise engaged) would likely stay home.  Because, without him, they just aren’t interested.

  40. 40.

    H-Bob

    The valuation of Mar a Lago at the fraud trial doesn’t take into account its attractiveness to foreigners seeking easy access to classified information.  That’s worth a few hundred million right there!

  41. 41.

    Manyakitty

    @Skepticat: they have been much less good of late. I’m still retching from the loving tongue bath they gave my weak and useless governor, Mike Dewine. 🤮

Comments are closed.