Who else agrees? #GOPClownShowContinues pic.twitter.com/39MpbvNBh1
— Rio Tazewell (@RioTazewell) November 10, 2023
Alexandra Petri, always worth sharing, at the Washington Post — “The third GOP primary debate went like this” [unpaywalled gift link]:
Once again, there was a Republican primary debate. Once again, Donald Trump was not there.
Moderators Lester Holt, Kristen Welker, Hugh Hewitt: Hello! You’re here. We have questions. Why you and not Trump?
Ron DeSantis: For my opening statement in this debate, I will offer a speed-run of every cliché uttered in politics since the dawn of time. Elites look down on you. I will fight for your family. Actions speak louder than words, so please imagine that the rest of my debate performance is an action. I will take the arrows and the slings. I am not clear on how archery works. I will prevent us from spiraling into decline. If we move toward decline in any other manner, we are out of luck. All I know how to prevent are spirals. The artificial intelligence that wrote this speech said you would cheer after you heard this.
Nikki Haley: I will be better than Trump because I am an accountant and because I exist in the present, whereas he existed in the past. I think he would want me to continue his great work today. We can only guess at what he would want, were he still around. Sometimes, I can almost hear him.
Vivek Ramaswamy: This question is a trick designed to pit me against Trump, and I will not respond to it. I am not here to answer debate questions. I am here to challenge the moderators to a duel.
Moderator: Please don’t.
Ramaswamy: Fine, then I am here to challenge Ronna McDaniel to a duel. I will find whoever it is who is making the Republican Party lose elections, and I will fight that person, even if I have to fight every Republican in this room, and most Republicans on a national and statewide level, and, ultimately, myself.
Haley: You will…
“The leading candidate for the GOP nomination is facing multiple felony and fraud charges, has been found liable for rape, and refuses to show up at any of his party’s debates.”—@BulwarkOnline https://t.co/j6gztOrq4Y
— Michael Steele (@MichaelSteele) November 9, 2023
Mr. Pierce, at Esquire — “It’s Hard to Say Who Was the Worst During the Republican Debate, But It Was Vivek Ramaswamy”:
… MSNBC managed to disgrace itself by partnering up with various right-wing media platforms and by bringing back Hugh Hewitt as a moderator, which did not stop Vivek Ramaswamy from going after NBC’s Kristen Welker right off the top of the show. See? Selling your soul should come with a disclaimer about the purchase price being only a teaser rate.
Ramaswamy, who seems to get more repulsive by the hour, was the unquestioned central figure of the debate, brought to that position by Nikki Haley, whose authentic dislike for the Vivster seems to have hit high tide. Their colloquy over TikTok owed more to Smith-Rock rather than Lincoln-Douglas…
Beyond this spitball fight, the debate focused itself on proving that none of these people can be elected and that none of these people should be elected anyway. Most of them called in one way or another for a second Mexican War. After the trouncing Republican candidates took over reproductive rights the night before, only Haley expressed the opinion that a nationwide abortion ban is a pipe dream. In addition, her response was the only one that was recognizably human and relatively humane. By contrast, Tim Scott announced his intention to keep tilting at that windmill or, more colloquially, romancing that chicken. But none of them truly get it yet. If the GOP rolled all those sevens and a national abortion bill landed on her desk, is there any doubt that President Nikki Haley would sign it? She carries the sign of Dobbs as clearly as all the rest of them do.
Analysis by Phillip Bump: Five Republicans who almost certainly won’t be their party’s 2024 presidential nominee used network airtime to spread false claims lifted from right-wing media. https://t.co/CqeP0nfXTt
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) November 9, 2023
Republican rivals to Trump opened their debate blaming him for election losses — then spent the next 90 minutes doing little to distinguish themselves from him, @justinsink & @nancook write https://t.co/uYKpavjLvo
— Jordan Fabian (@Jordanfabian) November 9, 2023
Per Bloomberg, “Trump-Bashing Republican Rivals Still Don’t Break With Him”:
The five Republicans scrapping to fashion themselves as the alternative to Donald Trump opened their debate Wednesday night blaming the former president for the party’s latest election embarrassment — then spent the next 90 minutes doing little to distinguish themselves from the GOP frontrunner.
Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, who entered the forum in Miami ascendant in the GOP’s second tier, capitalized on the debate’s foreign policy focus and effectively parried attacks from others on the stage, including deeply personal digs from entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy.
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who risks being supplanted by Haley as the first runner-up in early primaries, turned in one of his stronger performances, with an enthusiastic hometown crowd papering over moments where he again retreated to familiar and repetitive talking points.
Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina avoided any moments that might disqualify him from consideration as Trump’s running mate, but likely did not resonate enough with voters to inject new life into his struggling campaign.
But with the exception of former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie – whose campaign has focused largely on warning Republicans about the dangers of again nominating Trump, and who seems unlikely to make another debate stage – the candidates seemed to tread carefully away from a true break with the former president…
The debate in Miami was more substantive and more controlled than previous Republican contests, but Trump — who rallied with supporters just 10 miles away — continued to cast a long shadow. There was little indication that the fundamental outline of the Republican race would be changed…
Ramaswamy sought to make a verbal splash on stage and draw attention to himself within the opening minutes, calling the GOP “a party of losers” in reference to a series of state races Tuesday where Republicans lost high-profile contests.
Ramaswamy singled out the Republican National Committee chair personally for these defeats before saying he thought Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk should moderate the next debate…
Hadn’t seen that last little nugget repeated elsewhere. Somebody should tell Ramaswamy that even if TFG drops dead before next November, Elon Musk is barred from running. (Although Vivek might just be lining up his next grift, if he doesn’t get lucky with TFG’s current puppetmasters.)
Baud
Vivek suggested Musk moderate the debate, not run for president.
And now I feel slimy for defending his comment.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
Sadly for the civilized world, the only way a post-2016 Republican can secure the nomination is to have the Trumpist vote backing them, and the only way for a non-Trump candidate to secure the Trumpist vote is for Trump to be even more dead than Bill the Cat was in the 1984 election.
And I shudder to think about what the Chief Twit’s idea of moderating a political debate would be.
Betty Cracker
Ramaswamy accomplished something rare in this hopelessly divided country. He united Americans in a desire to see Nikki Haley punch him in the dick.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
He should go on a National Unity Tour.
Tony Jay
Nice to see Petri shine a light on Ron de Not Don’s persistent inability to fake human speech patterns or even vaguely disguise his uncanny chasm level anti-charm. Pity Rick Scott couldn’t have been there to drape his reeking batwings around Dim Cousin Tim and suck the last drops of succulent lifejuice out of his vanity campaign, but we can’t have everything. The Haley/Ramaswamy UST is about the only thing these debates have got going for them, so fingers crossed that Christie gooses his much-watch profile by turning up next time in a partially open dressing gown and drunkenly inviting DeSantis to come take a shower with him or lie on the bed watching Spartacus, “You wanna oyster dip, Ronny, or you liking your snails grilled?”
Funny how the MSM narrative isn’t that this endless line-dance of lightweights doesn’t signal a real rift in the Republican coalition between MAGA Trumpists and the Please Not Trump everyone else, but not surprising. Why ruffle feathers on the Right when it’s much easier and better for their wage packets to fluff the No Labels/Faux Left/Indeedypendant Axis of Weevils forming up to try hobbling Dark Brandon?
sab
@Betty Cracker: Does he even realize that everyone not his parent thinks he is a complete asshole?
satby
And in the meantime Traitor Tuberville keeps blocking the military promotions and the House can only seem to vote on bills to reduce various administration officials salaries to $1 while a government shut down looms. What a complete travesty that party has become.
Rusty
The point is that while in presentation the five are different from Trump, in substance they have very few if any differences from Trump. It’s the same rancid bile just in a few different bottles. The more America understands the contents, the less it wants the foul liquid. What a horrid group of people. Christie barely has a soul (demonstrated by his reference to a 16 year old drug addict), the rest have have no souls at all.
mrmoshpotato
After the brawl, the assclowns had a slapfight at the after party? Yes? Yes?
mrmoshpotato
To lie. The correct words are “to lie.”
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: I suggest Melon Husk goes and debates the Sun – on the surface of the Sun.
Nelle
@Betty Cracker: We were talking about him. I may be the only BJ reader to have spent 15 minutes in “conversation” with Ramaswamy. We were in the Capitol last summer to protest the legislature special session to take away rights to reproductive health care and he walked by, flashing me a huge grin that was so oily and patently false that I asked someone walking with him, is he a politician. Yep. So we talked to him but he was so busy spewing various canned answers that I don’t think it registered that we were human, not some sort of hologram. But no sense that he was as vile and unhinged as he is. One of his staffers was pretty cool; I hope she’s left the campaign by now.
mrmoshpotato
@Tony Jay:
Hear! Hear! Even though I have no desire to see see Batboy.
mrmoshpotato
@sab:
Do you have any evidence that his parents don’t also think he’s a complete asshole?
Tony Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
The trick is to keep your back to the action and watch it via a little silver-backed mirror. Can be a bit confusing with the victim jerking all over the place and you can’t see why, but you get the general gist.
OTOH, never turn your back on the Senator from Suckeeyaneckee
OzarkHillbilly
@sab: In today’s GOP, being a complete asshole is a job requirement.
Shalimar
@sab: From observing over a decade of Mgtow/Gamergate/4-chan assholes talking to each other, Ramaswamy is performing their belligerent act perfectly. This is what impresses cis men with tons of free time because no woman will ever date them.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
hehe, reminds me of how at work I am having the mentor one of the kids on The Mysterious Ways of Woman(tm); basically the women folk don’t like it when one constantly belittles them and that goes doubly so when the woman is question is one’s manager.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Bitch.
Bupalos
I know it’s somewhere between unfashionable and blasphemy to distinguish between Republicans…but Haley is so preferable to the others that it’s worth noticing. Haley would actually be a good transitional step away from Trumpism, the best methadone one could reasonably hope for. She’s reasonably clever at rhetorical angles that flatter Trumpist impulses without implying actual policy and seems to have a responsibility gene.
I don’t think she has any chance at the nomination even with a Trump “electability” slide, but at least she could become a focal point for a Republican reform.
satby
Before this thread gets too long, I have 2 more invite codes for the blue sky place. I don’t post them because BS is having trouble with data scrapers crawling the web to find publicly posted ones to set up bots or trolls. Send an email to me skinluvvers at gmail if you’d like one.
lowtechcyclist
Apropos of nothing, I didn’t know swing sets were built to, um, bear this much weight…
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1799348247167893
Another Scott
@Bupalos: I understand where you are coming from, but she’s horrible too.
Some things are not fixable. They need instead to be trashed and the work needs to be done to start over.
No, not like No Labels. Like the Republicans rising from the ashes of the Whigs.
We need to keep an eye on them, in the know your enemy sense, but not lose sight of the fact that she’s horrible too.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
This. In a hypothetical timeline where she somehow won the nomination and the election, if a GOP Congress sent her something extreme (like banning all abortions, period), would she have the courage to veto it? I very much doubt it.
lowtechcyclist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
You mean women aren’t any different from men in this regard? Who knew?!
Geminid
While the election of Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson as Speaker left many people asking, “Who is Mike Johnson?” it turns out that one group knew Johnson well: advocates for a “Convention of the States.” That is the introduction to Laura Hadid’s Politico Magazine article, ” Inside Mike Johnson’s Ties to a Far-Right Movement to Gut the Constitution” (November 10).
” We’ve known this guy for years. He’s been a friend for years,” said Tim Barton on Rick Green’s “Patriot Academy” podcast. Green’s podcast is listened by to followers of the Convention of States movement. “He’s tough but he’s nice,” observed David Barton, Tim Barton’s father. The elder Barton is a leader of the movement.
It’s a long article, and includes statements Speaker Johnson made in support of a Convention of the States in 2016 when he was a Louisiana state legislator. There are also comments by Russ Feingold, the former Senator and current president of the American Constitution Society.
There are comments by Mike Farris, another leader of the moment who was Virginia’s Republican candidate for Lt. Governor in 1993. Farris, a homeschooling advocate, lost to Don Beyer by 10 points in a year when Republican George Allen won the governorship with 58% of the vote.
Another convention advocate’s appraisal of Speaker Johnson pretty much sums up the situation:
Tom Levenson
@sab: Until I see affirmative evidence that his parents do NOT think he’s an asshole, I’m gonna have go to “assumption not in evidence” on this comment.
EarthWindFire
Me too. But not for the same reasons. JFC, this country needs to take a hard look at how we let these crackpots anywhere close to levers of power. We won’t but we need to.
Subsole
@sab:
I think he may. Might be part of why he acts that way.
Eh. Positive feedback loops’re a royal cast iron bastard, sometimes.
oldgold
I thought Biden looked and sounded better at the UAW event than he has in a while. Also, his use of self-deprecating humor to address the age issue was effective. The jacket/ shirt exchange was a good idea that was poorly executed and probably ended up being a net negative.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid: I’ve never understood why some people get so excited about, or afraid of, an Article V Constitutional convention. All it does is bypass Congress; any amendments that were passed by the convention would still have to be ratified by the legislatures of 38 states in order to actually amend the Constitution, and that’s really the hard part. Coming up with a blocking coalition of 13 states wouldn’t be a challenge if the convention passed any bizarro stuff.
Ksmiami
@Another Scott: when she called for Warnock to be deported, that was a line for me that she stepped over into Never Haley. The modern GOP needs to be burnt to the ground
kalakal
These debates would be improved immensely if the candidate deemed to have performed worse by the audience was to be strapped to a trebuchet and launched into a sewage farm.
They’d be improved even more if they dispensed with the preliminaries and just launched all of them.
It’s a total shitshow, they’re all monsters
Geminid
@EarthWindFire: The reporter’s reference to a statement that Mike Johnson made while a Louisiana legislator suggests another good line of research for journalists. I think the larger part of Johnson’s political record, as well as his personal biography including finances, has yet to come out.
Johnson’s elevation to Speaker seemed somewhat random at the time. But I remember seeing a picture of Reps. Bob Good and Matt Gaetz walking away from the Caucus meeting where Johnson was selected, and thinking, “Those guys sure seem happy about this.” Now I wonder if Johnson’s election as Speaker was the Gaetz faction’s plan all along.
EarthWindFire
@Geminid: Good and Gaetz probably are happy. Grifting crackpot knows grifting crackpot game. But I don’t grant either of them the attention span required to game out that many votes. You’re a better person than I am.
My bet is this was an overnight brainstorm…a why didn’t we think of this before kind of thing.
Geminid
@EarthWindFire: I’m not a better person than you because I think Gaetz, Good and others could have engineered Johnson’s election. I just give them more credit for intelligence than you do. Matt Gaetz may be a lot of things, but he’s not stupid and he’s not lazy.
And I gotta say, I’ve come to understand what “you are a better person than I am” means on this forum. It’s a “left-handed compliment” implying naivety or credulity.
cmorenc
@Betty Cracker:
You win the internet with that one, Betty
SiubhanDuinne
Ew ew ew. That WaPo photo of DeSantis … what would you call it? It’s surely not smiling. It’s something between a snarl and a rictus.
A snictus?
lowtechcyclist
@Ksmiami:
She WHAT?! I must’ve missed or memory-holed that one.
I know any reason she was able to come up with had to be bullshit, but do you remember what ‘justification’ she gave?
Truth.
RaflW
My g-d, the bizarre submissive grimace on Ron D’s face when shaking hands with the Vivster (as Pierce coined). DeSantis is just such a tiny little twerp.
eta @SiubhanDuinne: maybe a submictus?
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
With a very pointed shoe…..
Ruckus
@sab:
I see that you don’t understand, he thinks everyone WANTS him to be a complete asshole, as in never do anything half-assed. I mean his style is to be all assed, all the time, in all ways possible. He’s just running for the wrong office. He wants to be SFB’s replacement and thinks the only way to do that is be a BIGGER asshole. Isn’t that SFB’s only positive attribute, complete asshole?
Rebel’s Dad
I can’t be the only person butchering Vivek’s surname to Ramasmarmy.
If that’s not a Freudian slip, idk what is.
EarthWindFire
@Geminid: I actually didn’t mean to imply naïvety. I’m not charitable and I own it.