The old Nit Diddler from Mississippi has finally added his thoughts to efforts by the SCV to honor slave trader, war criminal, traitor, KKK Grand Wizard and neo-slave trader–Nathan Bedford Forrest:
Mississippi NAACP president Derrick Johnson said it’s “absurd” to honor a “racially divisive figure” such as Forrest. Johnson has also called on Barbour to denounce the license plate idea.
Asked about the NAACP’s stance Tuesday, Barbour replied: “I don’t go around denouncing people. That’s not going to happen. I don’t even denounce the news media.”
So in Haley’s world, the ‘news media’ writ large is just like the owner of the “Negro Mart” who betrayed his Nation, committed war crimes and started a campaign of domestic terrorism that lasted for over a hundred years.
And based on the things he has already said, it is clear that the Old Nit Diddler does not have any problem denouncing Barack Obama, Democrats and their policies. It is just when he is asked to call out racism, the Confederacy and murderous traitors canonized by Lost Cause mythology, that Haley is suddenly voiceless. Perhaps it is because to denounce a monster of history like NBF, Haley would have to come to terms with the part of himself that saw white supremacist organizations as benign civic organizations and his own exploitation of Lost Cause hype for political gain. If he confronted the myths and lies of the Lost Cause then he would lose his base and his shtick. Acknowledging and confronting lies of white supremacy requires courage and honor–two qualities that are completely unknown to the Old Nit Diddler. And so he dodges the question, but it will follow him.
Cheers
Comrade Javamanphil
I’m not sure he’ll have too much competition for the President of the Confederacy nomination. Hahahaha. Who am I kidding? It’s what they are all running for.
gnomedad
Damn, I forgot to denounce Stalin and the Broccoli Mandate this morning. Consider it done.
ETA: I keep thinking of “The Old Dope Peddler”.
beltane
Nah. Old Haley’s just bitter that he can’t rape the slave children on his plantation the way his great, great-grandaddy did. What an impoverished culture these confederates have if their hero is someone like Forest and the only thing they have to be proud of is committing treason in the cause of slavery. That’s as pathetic as it gets. At least the Germans had all kinds of people and events from their history to look back proudly upon other than that unpleasantness of the mid-twentieth century. What do white southerners have?
ET
While my dad was Mississippi and was no racial justice type of guy, there is a reason he left that state and pretty much stayed away. The H.B.’s of the the state are one reason. Being so stupid as to make trouble for yourself is a whole new level of stupid.
I am from Louisiana and that state is not exactly top tier but we always said “thank God for Mississippi” because they could always make us look good.
Rommie
The old Union Army was out to set other men free. The way it’s headed, the new Union Army will be out to set other men on fire. At least these license plates will make it easy to pick out those people.
(Uh oh, I’ve overgeneralized and lumped millions of innocent folks into getting set on fire. Um, okay, Stalin was a Bad Mans! Really. And I fully support the Boston Broccoli Party throwing boxes of the vile plant into the harbor!)
Kryptik
@ET:
And at least you have New Orleans.
But yeah, this is sadly par for the course. I wouldn’t care about the impenetrable worship of the Confederacy if not for the fact that such worship is probably the single biggest driving force in politics today, if not in such overt manners as a Nathan Bedford Forrest commemorative license plate.
geg6
Haley Barbour is nothing more than one of NBF’s minions. Why you even give him the benefit of the doubt as to whether or not he’s KKK or WCC is beyond me. He is one them.
cmorenc
Point of Clarification:
The proposal is NOT to make the Nathan Bedford Forrest honorary plate as the generic Mississippi license plate you get by default. Rather, it’s to add a “Nathan Bedford Forrest” plate to the selection of specialty plates an owner can optionally select, for a modest additional fee, analogously to the way e.g. you can get a “Great Smoky Mountains” themed license plate in North Carolina for a modest extra fee.
So, the issue is whether the “Nathan Bedford Forrest” plate should be available as an extra option to choose from on official license plates in Mississippi, not whether anyone would be forced to take one (or have to specifically “opt out”) of getting one. Of course, that still leaves open whether even offering a Nathan Bedford Forrest plate as an option is unacceptably offensive, in the way e.g. a plate honoring pedophilia would be, regardless of the fact that there might be a market out there for people wanting these for their car.
I agree that you have to be an abrasively insensitive, confrontational asshole to have a Nathan Bedford Forrest plate on your car, but the downside is that unless Mississippi is among the states which require an official license plate on BOTH front and back, what will inevitably happen if Mississippi turns down NBF honorarium as an official plate, is that immediately entrepreneurs will create unofficial ones for the front bumper, and license plate frames for the rear plate, which PROMINENTLY mention Nathan Bedford Forrest. Whatever win on principle can be had here in defeating the official plate proposal, in practice this is going to be a loss either way. I predict MORE people will buy the unofficial plates, willingly paying extra, than would ever buy the official ones at an extra fee.
Joey Maloney
We ridicule these people, and justly so, but they aren’t going away. I predict that probably within 10 years, certainly within 20, some state’s legislature is going to pass a bill of nullification or secession and the governor will sign it. It’ll be overridden by the courts and nothing will come of it, that first time. But it’ll keep happening.
Seriously, I think the USA is a lot closer to breaking up than we imagine.
Mr Stagger Lee
@beltane: Well they do have Elvis, William Faulkner, and Huey Long, to name a few.
socraticsilence
As someone born and raised in the South I never got why so many choose to dwell on 4.5 years out of nearly 2.5 centuries of Southern history- seriously, literally any point in the pre-or-post secession history would be less offensive (slavery would still exist but it wouldn’t be the singular defining focus).
numbskull
@Mr Stagger Lee: The Kingfisher is Louisiana, not Mississippi.
numbskull
Southern Heritage: Starting a fight, getting your ass kicked, and then whining about it for the next 140 years.
JGabriel
If Barbour won’t denounce anyone, that means he won’t denounce bin Laden.
WHAT KIND OF AMERICAN WON’T DENOUNCE BIN LADEN?! WHY DOES HALEY BARBOUR HATE AMERICA?!
.
shortstop
@Kryptik:
This is really the key point. As polls showing both party affiliation and region consistently demonstrate, the GOP is increasingly a regional party tied to regional white perspectives. It is certainly true that the Republican Party is composed of assholes from every corner of the nation; it’s equally true that no national GOP candidate or platform can succeed without embracing the vicious bellicosity of the neo-Confederates.
@cmorenc:
We get that; I don’t think anyone is claiming that this will be a forced action. What everyone is rightfully complaining about is the mere possibility that this will receive the official imprimatur of the state. You may well be right that banning it will cause more slack-jawed defiance on the part of some of Mississippi’s worst bigots; if that happens, it will certainly put the lie to the claim that white assholery of this type occurs only rarely and among a limited few. Having thousands of unofficial plates is preferable to having a single official one.
gene108
@cmorenc: There’s nothing that stops good Southerners from sticking a Stars and Bars decal on their automotive vehicle. There’s plenty of private Confederacy stuff out there for people to adorn their cars with.
States shouldn’t be a part of sponsoring support for the Confederacy anymore, in any manner.
WyldPirate
@shortstop:
Data please. And this explains why state houses and governorships were taken all over the country how? Wisconsin, MInnesota, etc.
Or are you talking out of your ass?
This is a fucking idiotic statement. “vicious bellicosity”? Really?
Success as a national candidate would imply getting elected to a national office. On what platform of “vicious bellicosity” would a Republican candidate run on to get elected? Would it be “Obama is a Muslim”? Sarah Palin’s tired-assed schtick? Maybe a Neo-Nazi skin head candidate advocating death camps for brown people? Or hey, maybe David Duke could run for the Republican nomination again since he did so well in 1992.
Hyperbole much?
Paul in KY
@ET: I was stationed at Keesler AFB for 8 months & I ran into alot of very nice people down there, black & white.
Of course, I think Biloxi is like the San Francisco of Mississippi.
Paul in KY
@cmorenc: That will help me figure out which cars I will key when given an opportunity. It’s a win all the way around!
Dennis G.
@cmorenc:
Pedophilia was a common aspect of the Slavery industry that made Forrest a multi-millionaire in 1850s dollars. Young girls were regularly raped and sometimes bought for that purpose. A vanity plate honoring NBF is not that far from a plate celebrating the rape of children.
If somebody wants to place a bumper sticker or a front plate celebrating treason and slave traders–and marking themselves as assholes–that is fine, but the State should not be involved in promoting this crap and making a buck off of it. And the Governor of the State with the highest proportion of African Americans in the nation should not duck the issue.
aimai
@cmorenc:
I don’t think that’s really relevant to a discussion of whether Haley Barbour should get away with being a closet NBF supporter. I think DennisG’s point is good:
Especially because NBF and the entire Klan period are, as symbols, essentially a covert threat against non whites and modern liberals. Would we be so complacent if the state were proposing a simple Noose with “hang ’em high”? or a fiery cross? Because that’s what the NBF/Confederate flag shtick is. As a form of political expression it is, of course, protected from being Banned by the state–but as a state sponsered act? Its horrific.
That being said, and this goes back to a long forgotten thread argument I had with Joe from Lowell, I not only think this kind of speech (hate speech) should be protected I actually think it should be engaged in. I think Haley Barbour’s voters should show the world what kinds of assholes and would be vigilantes and nutcases and bigots they are. I far prefer seeing people marginalize themselves with their neighbors with a NBF sticker than with something more mealy mouthed.
aimai
catclub
@cmorenc: If only the people getting the commemorative plates were also told that their extra fee was being made a donation to the NAACP and to rebuild ACORN. Then the decision would have some bite to it.
catclub
@numbskull: “whining about it for the next 140 years.”
That implies they stopped in 2005. They haven’t.
Mike in NC
@beltane:
Colonel Sanders? Forrest Gump? It would be great to see Haley Barbour given a keynote speaking role at the 2012 GOP Presidential convention. He’d make Pat Buchanan’s infamous 1992 culture war address look reasonable by comparison.
RalfW
@cmorenc: The way the GOP is crushing the poor, the working class and the vanishing middle class, we may well have a major uprising on our hands in a few years, in which case
will come in handy.
AxelFoley
@Joey Maloney:
Didn’t work for them last time, won’t work for them this time. Last time, the Union went easy on them after their treason. This time, they’ll get annihilated. This time, the decendents of slaves sure as hell won’t go soft on them. This time, there are other minorities who know these racists will come after them, too, and they ain’t havin’ it.
Berial
@cmorenc: Mississippi does not require 2 plates just the one in back. And yes, you do see pretty bad front plates from time to time.
Personally, I really dislike the ‘Choose Life’ plate that Mississippi currently offers. I see them everywhere but not once have I seen a Pro-Choice offering.
I’m actually surprised the SCV found enough people to support a Forrest tag. Why did they choose him anyway? Not like most people here wouldn’t worship Lee if given the chance. Hell our official state holiday on the 3rd Monday of January is “Martin Luther King’s and Robert E. Lee’s Birthdays” and the last Monday in April is Confederate Memorial Day.
Please don’t think I’m in favor of a Robert E. Lee car tag. I’m just surprised they didn’t try for the ‘easier’ target.
asiangrrlMN
I denounce denouncing things! It’s detestable!
Haley Barbour is an idiot. I have a better chance at becoming the Republican nominee for prez than does he.
@Berial: My guess is that they were trying to be deliberately provocative, and R.E. Lee just ain’t provocative enough.
Mnemosyne
@Berial:
If they did that, it would mean they actually meant it when they said they were trying to preserve “Southern heritage” and not just white supremacy.
The thing I like about the South is that they don’t bother to dog whistle. They just put the founder of the KKK up on their license plates and dare you to mock them for it.
JWL
Forrest holds a unique place in the minds of civil war students. Mississippi native Shelby Foote prominently featured him in his fabulous trilogy, going so far as to call Forrest and Lincoln the only two geniuses the war produced (that’s bullshit, but Foote believed it). Forrest’s military prowess as a cavalry commander is indisputable.
Likewise indisputable is Founders such as Washington and Jefferson relied on slave traders like Forrest to maintain their labor force, yet today rarely endure the righteous opprobrium that is commonly visited upon him. The planter’s social conceit that they stood apart and superior to the traders was practiced even then, of course. It’s telling that conceit has perpetuated itself in our historical narrative.
Forrest was a forceful personality before, during, and after the war. That much is indisputable. But he was also typical of his time in the south, and not that far removed from many of the sensibilities possessed by white northerners. He was hardly an aberration.
Lincoln’s admonition to “let ’em up easy” was wise. It helped smooth reconciliation. But a blind eye was consequently turned to much rude truth, and we continue to witness- to feel- the ramifications inherent in that bargain as it continues to play out.
I’ve facetiously suggested that someone in Virginia likewise push to honor Nat Turner on their license plates. But why not? If any good can come from the revulsion keenly felt by the proposal to commemorate the life of Forrest, perhaps it can be found by just such a counterpunch.
Dennis G.
@JWL:
I think that you’re quite wrong here:
Back in the day of Washington and Jefferson the global slave trade was still a going concern. Forrest was able to make his fortune as a result of the civilized world outlawing slavery in the early 1800s. His business was to buy the excess slave stock from plantations in the old established states and selling them to new slave states and territories. Washington and Jefferson did not rely on men like Forrest for their slaves.
JWL
@Dennis G.: Point taken. But the evil seed never fell far from the Judah tree of the American slave trade. There never existed a fundamental delineation between any of the players, whatever the decade. Those antebellum southerners that cited New England’s hypocrisy in denouncing the institution they helped found were, after all, correct.
JWL
Dennis G: Make that the ‘Judas tree’.
I lived for years at 10th & Judah in San Francisco, and got confused.