I was mostly out of the loop news-wise over the holiday weekend (and a sweet relief it was, too), but did we discuss this outrageous bullshit from the Netanyahu government? Via The Guardian:
Israel has escalated its already furious war with the outgoing US administration, claiming that it has “rather hard” evidence that Barack Obama was behind a critical UN security council resolution criticising Israeli settlement building, and threatening to hand over the material to Donald Trump.
The latest comments come a day after the US ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro, was summoned by Netanyahu to explain why the US did not veto the vote and instead abstained.
The claims have emerged in interviews given by close Netanyahu allies to US media outlets on Monday after the Obama administration denied in categorical terms the claims originally made by Netanyahu himself.
The Guardian terms it a “furious war with the outgoing US administration,” and it is. But I’d argue it goes further than that; it’s an expression of contempt for Democrats in general.
I thought Netanyahu was foolish for openly campaigning for Romney in 2012. But luckily for him, PBO is a famously circumspect man, which largely shielded Israel from the consequences of Netanyahu’s partisan meddling.
Trump’s ascension with an assist from Putin signals that it’s open season for foreign meddling in US politics. So there’s a certain logic to Netanyahu’s interference.
But this action strikes me as a further placement of all of Israel’s eggs in the Republican basket, which is now the Trump basket. And we know what else is in that basket, even if Netanyahu doesn’t. What an incredibly foolish move.
Patricia Kayden
Netanyahu expects that along with the billions of dollars in aid which Israel gets from the US, it will also get carte blanche to do whatever the hell it wants with zero criticism. That’s not how things work.
germy
Fast-food workers in Israel are unionized. And Israel has universal healthcare.
etc. etc.
All the stuff we “can’t afford” here.
Ruckus
Foolish? From Netanyahu? You expected different?
I predict that the hard right conservative slant many parts of the world have been going through for a while will not end well. We of course have just added to it, again, with our last election. It’s obvious that lots of humans don’t believe in liberal policies and want things like wars, starvation, pollution, etc, etc, somehow thinking that this makes everything better, which of course it doesn’t. It seems to be a lesson that is learned over and over and over but never sinks in for more than a few years at a time, before it all starts over again. As a species we don’t seem to be very bright do we?
Baud
I asked yesterday how Trump would relate to Israel since Putin is not an ally of Israel. The responses were all over the place, so I guess the answer is that no one knows.
bystander
Everytime I hear how America’s commitment to helping the poor and disadvantaged is about to be challenged, I can’t help but think how it’s never sporting to point out specifically anti-Christian behavior when it’s practiced by a self-avowed Christian.
I also notice in CBS’s coverage of shutting down Trump’s slush fund foundation, they feel compelled to repeat Trump’s lies about it, followed by a discussion of the truth. Why do they not report the truth first and then show how weak and whiny Trump’s lies are?
rikyrah
Woman charged with hate crime after stabbing transgender man who offered his train seat in Harlem
A Manhattan woman stabbed a transgender man who had offered her a seat on a Harlem subway Christmas night after declaring, “I don’t want to sit next to black people,” police sources said.
Stephanie Pazmino, 30, was riding a southbound No. 4 train with her cousin by 125th St. and Lexington Ave. at about 11:05 p.m. when Ijan DaVonte Jarrett, 44, who is black, offered to give up his seat. She refused, then told her cousin in Spanish that she didn’t want to sit next to a black person, sources said.
“I got up anyway and said to her that she didn’t have to sit next to me,” said Jarrett, a hairstylist on his way home from a Christmas Day job in Bayonne. “I took a seat across from her and just forgot all about it.”
When Pazmino got up to leave the train, she started punching him, he said. He didn’t realize he was being stabbed, he said, until another man rushed in to help.
schrodingers_cat
True believers think they can repeal common sense and reality. They can’t. They think that difficult questions have easy answers. They don’t. They think that power of personality can overcome anything. It can’t.
Its not just a RW problem. People who voted for JS and were BS purists also tend to think this way. Pragmatism is boring.
Jerzy Russian
A lot of people need Shutting The Fuck Up lessons these days. The list seem to be growing: Ivanka lecturing about life lessons while growing up rich, golfer Phil Mickelson complaining about paying taxes on a 70+ million a year income, Donald Trump in general, etc. Now apparently the higher ups in the Israel government need lessons also.
Isn’t there some kind of company out there that offers Shutting The Fuck Up lessons? If so, why aren’t more people making use of it?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Stalin and Hitler pact did not last forever. Neither is the current incarnation. Syria is probably the modern day Poland.
ETA: If we want to use the Great War analogies then Kurdistan is Poland.
Ruckus
@Jerzy Russian:
See the last line in my comment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and yet, individual Jewish voters picked Clinton over Trump by almost 50 points… Kinda like that one guy with a fax machine (can’t remember who I stole that from) who calls himself something like “The Catholic League of America” doesn’t really speak for Catholics.
Betty Cracker
@Patricia Kayden & @Ruckus: It seems incredibly short-sighted on Netanyahu’s part. If you take the view that this was a conventional election (albeit one with a terrible outcome, if you’re a Democrat), and you represent Israel, wouldn’t you want to maintain the appearance of good faith in the expectation that eventually — perhaps as soon as 2020 — a Democrat will again be in the White House?
And if you take the view that this wasn’t a conventional election but instead part of a white nationalist wave washing over Western democracies, wouldn’t you ponder the lessons of history vis-a-vis Jews and white nationalism? Wouldn’t you find Trump’s chief strategist, coddler and enabler of neo-Nazis, alarming?
I never thought Netanyahu was a brilliant strategist, but I gave him more credit than someone like Trump. I now suspect that credit was misplaced. This anti-Obama hissy fit is Trump-like to a tee — petty, vindictive and unmindful of long-term objectives.
Jerzy Russian
Speaking as someone who has not really followed this very closely, what the hell does this even mean? It was reported that Obama gave the instructions for the U.S. to abstain from the vote, so of course he was “behind” this. If they mean the origin of the resolution itself, aren’t there countless countries involved in this, with multiple public meetings and discussions, etc.?
Nelle
The New Zealand ambassador to Israel has been given the boot. He’s also the ambassador to Turkey and a few other countries in the region, so he’s got a place to land. I just gave my NZ passport a loving pat of approval for NZ’s part in riling up Netanyahu, who sounds like a massa ordering his slaves while profiting from labor, never conscious of his own debt and entitlement.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Long term and strategic think is not the strong suit of the ideologically pure. They are all about tactical short term victory laps.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe liberals should take a page out of their book and create some organization called Real Americans for America (or something like that) and promote Real American Values – shocking twist, they’re all things like improving the social safety net, health insurance for everyone (single payer), strong unions, etc.
Dread
I guess the government of Israel is hoping that by getting on his good side, he’ll come for them last.
jeffreyw
“Never get involved in a land war in Asia, nor a religious dispute in the Middle East.”
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: Netanyahu is an authoritarian. So is Trump. And Putin. That’s what they have in common. All the other issues are not relevant.
And Netanyahu is probably betting that there will not be free and fair elections in the USA in 2020. We’ll be lucky to have them in 2018.
Baud
FWIW, my guess is that Bibi lost bigly with this U.N. vote, and like all right-wingers, his strategy is to put on a big show by lashing out at other perceived enemies as a means to distract constituents from the enormity of the failure.
Hafabee
@Yarrow: How about True Patriots for America?
Chris
Reposting from the last thread:
Israel has spent a couple of decades now merrily alienating every other nation on the planet in the secure knowledge that Big Brother America would be behind them all the way. In the Obama years, they’ve decided that they can now double down on that strategy by alienating half of the American political spectrum as well, secure in the knowledge that the other half will always be there for them. Somebody needs to teach Bibi the old says about eggs and baskets.
Yarrow
This article was linked in the thread below.
Botsplainer
@Jerzy Russian:
Wonder if he’ll have a bomb drawing on the posterboard?
Betty Cracker
@Jerzy Russian: I haven’t followed it closely either, but the allegation seems to be that Obama colluded with Arab states and other countries to put forth the resolution. Here was Trump’s tweet on the matter:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, what a dolt. I’m sure every would-be Machiavelli on the planet is salivating for a chance to have a go at the moron, drawing up plans to flatter the idiot into doing their bidding. Hey, it worked for Putin!
Jerzy Russian
@Ruckus: Maybe we can write a book called “Shutting The Fuck Up For Dummies”. I understand there are a lot of talented writers and artists among us, so producing the book should not be a problem. Mr. Cole can offer the book along side the pet calendar in the Balloon Juice Store, and that takes care of the marketing and sales part.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow:
You keep repeating this in every thread, to what purpose? Except to spread doom and gloom. I never saw you here before the elections either.
Yarrow
@Hafabee: That’s good! I do like the idea of co-opting the “Real Americans” phrase. Perhaps both could be incorporated.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
Given the number of Birchers he’s surrounded himself with, we are now at a decidedly greater than non-zero chance of a showy withdrawal from the UN. I think that tweet reflects his (and their) “thinking” about an institution that has served as a pretty significant tool of American foreign policy for 70 years.
Peale
@Betty Cracker: I’m going to laugh my ass off if the US exits both the UN to keep Bibi happy and NATO to keep Putin happy, while running around the globe making these demands for respect Willy hilly.. Then I realize that Trump probably just wants the land that UN sits on for his own development project. Ugh. I really am going to need to check out most days.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Yarrow isn’t alone in wondering whether we’ll have free and fair elections going forward. The GOP has been working overtime to suppress the vote for years, and now they’ll have full control of the government at the federal level, a shot at remaking the court and an unhinged, highly malleable demagogue coming into the White House.
As for the purpose of expressing that concern, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think the possibility should be discussed to maintain vigilance and hopefully inspire resistance. Maybe I’m nuts too. My husband thinks I am. But I think this is an extremely dangerous situation, and not just because Trump is a fool. He’s a genuine threat to US democracy, IMO.
YMMV, and that’s fine. But Yarrow isn’t alone in that thinking, not by a long shot.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
A few weeks ago I was reading tweets on this topic by an Israeli blogger I follow (mostly pop culture reviewer but lots of politics mixed in with it).
Apparently, there was quite a lot of agitation in the Israeli government at the time about Trump’s courting of open antisemites. To which her response was that 1) Bibi & co. had spent the last twenty years courting every far right movement in Europe and North America and turning a blind eye to the antisemitism in these movements so long as the Islamophobia was there. So it’s a little disingenuous of them to pretend that they’re only now becoming aware of it. And 2) that Bibi’s branch of Israeli politics tends to hold non-Israeli Jews in general in contempt – not enough not to take their money, of course, but enough that they don’t really care if they suffer from the rising antisemitism.
bystander
Sometimes, it seems as if we’re living in a prequel to The Stand. Haven’t read it in years, but there are too many ominous events of late.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Thinking that is fine, but repeating it in every damn thread is overkill and serves little purpose.
Bobby D
The cognitive dissonance of that arsehole Bibi is just stunning. Because you know the base, the white nationalists that voted these Trumpian jackholes into office, the ones that offered a straight-up anti-Semitic closing ad? Yeah, I don’t think they’re gonna be on board with the US being a client state of Israel.
If I were Obama, that shit would have been nipped in the bud on day 1 after my re-election. “Stop the settlement expansions, or we cut off all financial and military aid, and I’ll have your answer right now”.
Keith G
@Baud: More than likely, there is no plan, So, maybe it depends on who has his ear at a given time. Netanyahu probably hopes that the neo-con underground can still exert influence as well the Cult of Israel that makes up a large part of Congress.
I think that Netanyahu’s neighborhood will be less stable and peaceful the next four years than the last. Just as the hillbillies of Appalachia are going to learn, be careful what you want, as you might just get it.
daveNYC
From what I’ve heard, Netanyahu’s plan has been to give lip-service to the two-state solution in order to maintain US backing, while continue to advance settler interests in order to keep his voting bloc together.
The only goal of all of this being to keep Bibi large and in charge in the PM’s slot. The US not backing them with a veto here means the end of the line for that strategy. Or it would if Obama had more than 20 days left in office.
Jerzy Russian
@Betty Cracker: Thanks for the response. If you need anything further from me, I will be over there in the corner curled up into a tiny ball and sobbing.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
You’ve got to love the fact that he doesn’t even have enough basic right wing ideology to say stuff like “the UN sucks.” Like everything else, the UN is something that vaguely isn’t great right now, but it’s got potential, and he’s just the man to make it great again! He clearly has no idea what he’s talking about and is just treating it as another opportunity for self-promotion.
FlipYrWhig
It would be nice for Iran to keep getting its act together and, before too much longer, to mature into a regional power that can provide a healthy check on Israel’s fondness for swaggering authoritarian bullshit.
maya
I’ve been sick of hearing about poor, poor Israel since 1971 and the Yom Kipper War of self defense, which it wasn’t. They get almost $400 per Israeli citizen in US welfare plus military aid every stinking year and still I get these, “won’t you help the poor starving widows in Israel” solicitations from Pat Boone.
hovercraft
Bibi and his fellow likudniks can all go fuck themselves with rusty pitch forks. I’m sure that Obama is just cowering in the White House right now, scared that the shitgibbon will arrest him for not sufficiently bending over to allow Bibi to fuck him at will. Bibi is shortsighted and power hungry, he will do anything to stay in power, he has been overtaken by the right wing nut jobs he brought in to his coalition. Now he is trapped with them in an ever escalating, and unsustainable policy towards the Palestinians. Apartheid fell despite being supported by the US and Britain, the US can veto all the resolutions it want’s going forward, but the Europeans will not continue to stand by and watch as Israel continues to violate human rights. Yes there is a strain of anti-Semitism in Europe that is embedded in their attitudes towards Israel, but when you are blatantly abusive and stealing land in broad daylight, you deserve the opprobrium you are getting. Bibi is the reason cries of anti-Semitism are not carrying the weight they used to in Europe, he cries wolf every time Israel is criticized, no nation is immune from criticism, creating a bunker mentality at home may win him the support of a plurality of his voters, but it doesn’t win you many allies. The Palestinians are not blameless, but they do not hold the power in this relationship, a cornered dog does not simply lie down and give up, it fights tooth and nail for it’s freedom.
So let Bibi deliver his “proof” to the shitgibbon, he made his choice eight years ago when on the day that Biden was arriving in Israel, he announced new settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories as a fuck you to Obama. It’s been downhill ever since, so he’s tied his lot to the GOP, to the detriment of his standing here with Americans, and around the world, so let him bind himself to this disaster in the making and see where it gets him. I suspect that out of the three “leaders”, only one of them will go down in history as a success, and it won’t be one of the two megalomaniacs strutting their stuff right now. Unfortunately the other two may succeed in getting us all killed.
Napoleon
@Betty Cracker:
I agree with Betty. I personally think I just witnessed the last open election in the US during my lifetime.
bowtiejack
@schrodingers_cat:
Well said.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
I third this. The fact that they’re about to go all-in on vote suppression has been one of my biggest concerns since election day.
Jinchi
@Yarrow:
They are also all racists, and believe that “Muslim” and “terrorist” are synonyms.
schrodingers_cat
@Chris: Then, its up to us to not let that happen. Whining on blogs and accepting it as fait accompli, does what exactly?
FlipYrWhig
@maya: I’m 45 and it seems like Israel has been being run by obnoxious asswipes for my entire politically-aware lifetime, except for that Rabin interlude. I take it there was a time when the country seemed like a plucky underdog that shocked the world by proving that Jewish people could be badasses. They’ve seemed far more overdog than underdog ever since I’ve been paying attention, and I grew up in a very Jewish-identified town where news from Israel was often the impetus for a current events discussion in Social Studies class. I guess it’s kind of like how if you started following baseball in 2004 you wouldn’t understand why there ever would have been a mythology surrounding the accursedness of the Boston Red Sox?
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: Thank you for that, Betty. I am very concerned about what is coming. What happens when authoritarians take power is fairly predictable and Trump is already following along that path. I see people talking about 2018 and 2020 as if it’s a given that we can fight back. I don’t think that is definitely the case. I think protecting our voting rights and elections is job number one. Everything else is important but it will go nowhere if we don’t have the ability to vote for the change we want.
I would like very much to be wrong about all this! We’ll see how it goes.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
You are NOT NUTS.
Why do people continue to say this.
Stating the obvious DOES NOT MAKE YOU NUTS.
Being a member of a populace that went from near complete voter participation to practically NO voter participation in the matter of a few years…
cough…JIM CROW…..cough…
I will say it again…
I am not White. There was nothing in the history of America that didn’t make me take Cheeto Benito at his word.
hovercraft
@Jerzy Russian:
@Betty Cracker:
I really wish Obama had instigated this, everyone knows that it is symbolic, but the fact that Obama refused to veto it, is a huge smackdown of Bibi and his right wing allies, who believe that ALL of the occupied territories belong to Israel. The ideal solution is for the Palestinians to leave, and to strip Israeli Arabs of their citizenship. Obama gave them the bird, so of course he is lashing out, and the shitgibbon is always at the ready to lash out as well, especially since Obama just said he would have beaten him.
Stan
@Patricia Kayden: That’s how things have been working since about 1967
waysel
@Betty Cracker: “Yarrow isn’t alone in wondering whether we’ll have free and fair elections going forward. ” I’m with you on this,Betty Cracker. You’re not nuts. RW think tanks have not been asleep at the wheel for decades, there’s no reason to think they’re sleeping now. Voter supression gave them all 3 branches, they have no respect for democracy, and they’ll do anything to maintain power. I believe the conversation is crucial. If we don’t act quickly enough, laws will be modified to make us powerless.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: If you think you can’t fight back you have already lost. If that’s not playing into the authoritarian’s hands, what is?
hovercraft
@Peale:
Well since it’s just a “a club for people to get together, talk and have a good time,”, why the hell should we be a part of it? They have all that namby pamby talk about working together and consensus. We know he doesn’t believe in most of their objectives, so why continue to pay for a membership that does nothing for us? Has anyone at he UN given any indication that he will be the greatest thing ever to happen to the US and the world? No, I thought not.
P.S. and they believe in climate change.
schrodingers_cat
FWIW I agree that T is not normal and he is a threat. But predicting the worst before it even happens and then reiterating that you are powerless does nothing to rally people to your purported cause.
Stan
@maya:
The War of Ramadan, or Yom Kippur war as it is known in Israel, was in 1973.
daveNYC
Whelp, given the list of countries that Netanyahu is getting pissy with, I’d say that he must have high hopes for Trump being the most enabling enabler that ever enabled.
Peale
@daveNYC: Israel has had 60 years to make a second friend.
randy khan
@Chris:
Maybe once Trump is tired of being President he can move up to being Secretary General of the U.N. Think what he could do with those buildings!
StringOnAStick
@Betty Cracker: Netanyahu knows that a blizzard of bullshit has worked for him in the past and will keep working now, and by blizzard of bullshit I mean everything he’s done to keep the settlement machine running and thus rendering the chance of a two nation state impossible. I recall he said year ago that he loves negotiation, the implication being that you can keep on negotiating for years while the bulldozers keep working. He’s in a race with time, and apparently he thinks 4 more years is enough time to accomplish this goal.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m sorry, did you think you were at a fucking DNC strategy session? This is a blog. The vast majority of what we post here doesn’t “accomplish” anything and isn’t meant to. If Yarrow is posting that stuff, I would venture a guess that it’s because he’s seriously worried about it and this is one of the few places he can talk about it without people dismissing him with a “there there, it’ll all be okay, Trump’s just being theatrical,” the same way other people have posted their fears about losing health insurance, getting Krystallnachted, or whatever. It doesn’t mean we haven’t done, aren’t doing, or aren’t planning to do things in meatspace to work against that agenda.
SRW1
Apparently, Netanyahu also called in the ambassadors of the SC countries to give them a diplomatic ‘dressing down’.
Among those countries, of course, the permanent SC members with veto powers. I suspect that will do wonders for Israel’s international standing.
It probably hasn’t been noticed much in the US, but there is a ‘Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions’ (BDS) movement with regard to the occupation of the West Bank They should probably send Bibi a ‘Thank you’ card. The EU is already insisting on products from the West Bank being labelled as such.
schrodingers_cat
@Chris: Sure he/she can post whatever they want and so can I. Skip over my comments if they bother you that much.
hovercraft
@Yarrow:
When even Chuck Todd is voicing ‘concerns’, you are not alone or crazy:
“I’ve also heard Donald Trump, boy, he won’t even make it through the first year of the presidency,” Todd mused. “Ah, Donald Trump will get impeached. Ah, Donald Trump will quit the presidency.”
He hit his punch line, saying, “16 years later we may look at Donald Trump and he’s still President of the United States.”
daveNYC
@Peale: 60 years ago they actually did have multiple friends. At least for a certain definition of the word ‘friend’. That’s what helped make the Suez crisis such a rollicking good time.
They’ve actually spent the last 60 years being such dick weasels that we’re the only ones left willing to put up with their shit.
catclub
@Betty Cracker:
The key point is Trump-like, and Trump is capricious. You might be his best friend one day and his mortal enemy then next, and not know why ( it was because you insulted him by using the wrong fork). Trump is more likely than Obama to insist that Israel pay its own way after he gets insulted.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
You asked me a question and I answered it. Skip over the answer if it bothers you so much.
maya
@Stan: Well, whatever war it was called in 1971 I certainly remember being in Times Square in NYC with my then Jewish fiance and her friends on a line to see a broadway show and being solicited by some old Jewish women for donations to help”poor Israel” in her hour of need. I got so fed up I just told them ‘I already gave at the office.” Even my fiance was embarrassed by them.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
It is certainly an expression of contempt for Obama. Netanyahu and other conservative Israelis simply cannot believe that a black president, with connections to Chicago (and presumably to Louis Farrakhan) could ever be pro-Israel, and that any consideration given to the Palestinian cause must reflect Obama’s personal hatred of Jews.
Another aspect of Netanyahu’s particular distrust of Obama can be seen in Israel sending the head of Mossad to give president-elect Trump a December 17 personal foreign policy briefing.
Netanyahu probably believes that any white Democratic president would be more fully a supporter of Israel than would Obama. But I agree with you that there is a degree of contempt for Democrats, as well as opportunism, in seeking to use the Republican control of the White House and Congress to maximize Israel’s security. And by securing agreements and support now, it would be more difficult for a later president, Democrat or Republican, to undo any gains that Israel can make during the Trump administration.
Chris
@maya:
Tell her you paid your taxes, which means Uncle Sam already donated on your behalf.
schrodingers_cat
@Chris: Fair enough, your answer did not bother me at all. I too was answering your question. Please carry on.
Gator90
@Betty Cracker:
I suspect that many on the Israeli right would welcome increasing white nationalism and/or anti-Semitism in the West, in the hope that more Western Jews would be prompted to emigrate to Israel, thus assisting Israeli Jews in their (ultimately doomed) demographic war with Palestinians.
daveNYC
@maya: 1971 was the Yom Kippur War and was actually self-defense. The 1967 Six Day War was the one that was a rather *cough* proactive, shall we say, form of self-defense.
Spanky
@Stan:
Ah yes, the Liberty.
Plucky, plucky little Israel.
(For those of you too young to recall.)
Chris
@Brachiator:
It’s that, but also the fact that “pro Israel” has been redefined to the point that it basically means “whatever Israel wants, Israel gets, with no other considerations.” Should a Labourite or other moderate end up in charge who’s perceived as too uncommitted to expansion, I suspect it’ll get defined even more radically.
Much in the same way that “pro America” means you have to support every war, every crime, and every war crime a Republican commits while wrapped in the stars and stripes.
@Gator90:
That, too. Although I totally believe the point I mentioned above, that Bibi & co just don’t like the diaspora very much and don’t really care if it suffers.
MazeDancer
Judith Herman, MD, and two of her noted colleagues wrote Mr. Obama a letter expressing their “grave concern” for Trump’s mental state.
Despite Judith Hermann being someone I admire deeply, I had missed this. Here is the letter at Crooks and Liars, but it can be found many places. Maybe most of you already saw this, but posting just in case others missed it, too.
Dr. Herman, of Harvard, is a huge, giant BFD in mental health. She is author of the seminal work “Trauma and Recovery”. She helped change the largely male American Psychiatric Association to recognize PTSD as actually existing. Her book “Father-Daughter Incest” helped establish that the crime was 100 times more prevalent than mainstream would admit.
Here is her Wikipedia bio. As you’ll see, this is not someone to be taken lightly. Though, really, what can be done?
sukabi
@Yarrow: Pretty sure it’s called the American Civil Liberties Union…it’s this little organization set up specifically to defend American constitutional values… It gets vilified by every so called “real American”.
Patricia Kayden
@Keith G: Sadly, your last paragraph is all too prophetic. Annexing land which doesn’t belong to you and antagonizing your neighbors isn’t a recipe for safety and security for Israel or any other country. I have no idea what the hell Netanyahu hopes to get out of developing more settlements in contravention of UN declarations. Idiotic.
Spanky
@MazeDancer:
Not a damn thing, following the Electoral College and before inauguration. Once in office he can be impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors”.
So perhaps the strategic thrust should be to put pressure on the House leadership every time Trump violates norms/laws, especially when the political cost to those “leaders” is made obvious. Nothing will get them moving except threats to their self-interest/self-preservation.
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: Perhaps you have missed my many comments encouraging people to call their congressional representatives on at least a weekly. In addition I’ve encouraged people to find out when and where their representatives’ town halls are and show up. We need to stiffen the spines of Democrats and let Republicans know we’re here.
My concern is that we have less than 30 days until the inauguration. The time for action is now. Authoritarians move quickly to clamp down on dissent. I’ve even asked if there has been discussion behind the scenes here at Balloon-Juice to protect commenters because I’m concerned that left leaning blogs and the people who post and comment on them may be vulnerable. Haven’t seen anything specific addressing that issue yet.
My concern about elections in 2018 and 2020 is that people aren’t aware of how quickly things can move when authoritarians take power so that those elections could be almost meaningless. We need to be working now to make sure they have meaning. To make sure we and our friends and neighbors can cast votes and that those votes will be counted fairly. Now is the time to make your contacts in real life, to find others who will work with you to fight and resist. Now is the time to plan and begin work. Now is when we need to do all those things and more. We do not know how much we will be able to do and how easily we can do it after January 20.
I see very little discussion of this issue. I have the impression people think it can’t happen here. It can. We are already heading down the road. If we aren’t starting our fight now, organizing now, we may not have that chance later.
I’d love to be proven wrong on all this.
rikyrah
This Is Not Woodstock
by Martin Longman
December 27, 2016 10:59 AM
The guy would be named Boris.
I suggest that we adopt “This Is Not Woodstock” as the unofficial name of Trump’s inauguration and associated balls. It works on every level that we need it to work on, and you can probably make a killing if you print up a bunch of hats, pins, and t-shirts and sell them in D.C. during the festivities.
The mouth-breathers will embrace it for its explicit rejection of patchouli and Birkenstocks and all the values associated with modernism. The rest of us will get the joke that this will be the unhippest, uncoolest, least worthy celebratory gathering in national history.
The joke will still be on us, unfortunately, but at least we’ll get a laugh out of it.
chopper
@Jerzy Russian:
this resolution has been attempted in one form or another many times. the idea that egypt or whoever had just up and ‘given up forever’ until O called them and said ‘no, we’ll abstain this time’ is idiotic. so of course right wingers are gonna eat it up.
rikyrah
Media Alert:
The Kennedy Center Honors is on tonight on CBS, beginning at 9pm EST.
Calouste
@daveNYC: The other 4 countries in the UNSC that all voted for the resolution (the vote was 14-0 with the US the only abstention), are New Zealand, whose ambassador just got canned by Israel apparently, and Malaysia, Venezuela, and Senegal, who don’t have an embassy in Israel.
chopper
@Baud:
a big reason bibi is such an established character in israeli politics is that he promises israelis that he’s their man in washington. they think he has DC ‘wrapped around his finger’. so when this shit happens it’s really, really humiliating and damages his political brand. who’s going to want to vote for him if he can’t get the backing of the only real economic and political patron israel has left in the world? so no wonder he’s throwing a tantrum.
Adam L Silverman
@Betty Cracker: Netanyahu has been meddling in US politics for decades. He was very good at it when he was the Israeli Ambassador to the UN. He was educated in the US, went to school with and/or was a student of a number of the neo-Cons, and worked with Mitt Romney at Boston Consulting. So he has a lot of ties within US politics and almost all of them are on the political right and among Republicans. The current Israeli Ambassador to the US, Ron Dermer, was born and raised in Miami Beach. His mother is Israeli, she grew up in British Mandatory Palestine, and his father is an American who has served as the Mayor of Miami Beach – as has Dermer’s brother. While its often whispered that Dermer was a minor party official in the Miami-Dad GOP, he appears to have cut his teeth helping to run Natan Sharansky’s first run for office in Israel. He also coauthored a book with Sharansky. Dermer was given a political appointment, based on his academic background in finance and economics, as the economics envoy at the Israeli Embassy in DC by Netanyahu. To take this position, Dermer had to renounce his American citizenship. Netanyahu subsequently made him the Ambassador to the US. Dermer has no formal foreign service training or experience. This appointment, similar to his predecessors, was solely because of his originally being an American and being politically aligned with Netanyahu.
Finally, the Israelis have the ability to construct whatever documentation they need to make whatever point they want to make. If I was presented with the documentation that the Israelis allege that they have, I would not accept it unless I could vet it as authentic through the other Five Eyes (US, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) Intelligence sharing partners.
Gator90
@Chris: I totally believe your point as well. Based on personal anecdotal experience I would say that many Israeli Jews (especially male ones) are openly contemptuous of diaspora Jews. (Or maybe I’m just bitter from that time in college when I was hitting on this American Jewish girl at the Hillel Center but she went for this Israeli dude instead after hearing his tales of single-handedly laying waste to half of Lebanon or some shit like that.)
hovercraft
@Brachiator:
He was also a dick towards Bill Clinton from what I remember. Democrats have always been more inclined to work on a peace treaty, which would necessitate both sides making real concessions. Bibi is a right winger, so he’s always been more hardline about the two state solution, he believes(ed) that a republican president would get better terms for Israel. But since the GOP has been moving steadily more hard right, and their presidents have not been inclined to actually work on a peace process, Bibi and his right wing allies have steadily become more hardline. Between the right wing religious zealots here and there, believing that all the land belongs to Israel, there is little hope for peace any time soon.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Yep. A good deal of what we’re seeing Netanyahu do is to shore up his coalition in an attempt to immunize himself from the slowly moving and omnipresent criminal investigations that always seem to start shortly after he takes office.
mkro
Not a foolish move at all. The US Republican party fits Netanyahu’s right-wing hardline party view perfectly. Additional, Republicans control virtually every level of the US government. Why would anyone who wants to influence U.S. policy align themselves with the Dems?
Villago Delenda Est
Bibi needs to STFU.
Screw the garbage that is Likud.
Steeplejack (phone)
@schrodingers_cat:
I believe Yarrow is a long-time commenter who changed his nym because of the apostrophe thing.
Corner Stone
Oh no! Sexy Rexy go bye bye!
Adam L Silverman
@Chris: It goes beyond that. Netanyahu wants and needs a rise in anti-Semitism. His arguments that 1) Israeli is not a state for Jews, but rather a Jewish state, 2) as such its leader, him, is the speaker for and representative in the global system of all Jews everywhere, and 3) his demographically driven call for Jews to flee to the safety of Israel where they can be protected – and shore up his flagging expatriot problem where Israelis that have the means are immigrating out of Israel and back to the European countries where their grandparents and great grandparents came from – only makes sense if there’s an actual threat. If you remember he issued such a call in the immediate aftermath of the Saint Michael attack in Paris in late 2015 and got yelled at by the leaders of France’s Jewish community for doing so. Supporting groups that are anti-Semitic and promote violence against Jews gets him closer to his goal. By helping to set the conditions that make Jews in Europe and the US feel unsafe, he makes his appeal for them to return to their homeland in Israel make sense. And since most Jewish Americans, as well as Jews in European countries aren’t paying attention to who Netanyahu supports because its not widely reported on and they have lives to lead, its all potential upside for him.
Anya
I am so sick and tired of Nutanyahu disrespecting the President of the United States. POTUS should have slapped him hard when he first tried. The one thing tho that Netanyahu accomplished is make lots of Democrats (the majority) dislike Israel and view it as a partisan issue rather than a friend of USA. Fuck him. I don’t know a single person in my generation, even the libertarian assholes who actually supports Israel. This asshole doesn’t understand that a despised POTUS is not useful for Israel. If the world hates our president then that will impact Israel. Barack Obama’s popularity in the world meant that many world leaders didn’t get any backlash from their citizens about supporting Obama. But just wait until the most hated man in the world takes office and Israel and Netanyahu will wish Obama was POTUS. Sadly for us we will be as unpopular as Israel but we can weather the storm. Tiny, lonely, hated Israel cannot. And that will be Netanyahu’s legacy.
Shalimar
@Adam L Silverman: All upside for Netanyahu personally, but not for Israel or for all Jews. This is the same selfishness and narcissism that has afflicted the Republican party in the U.S. for the last decade. The party is the only value that matters, even if it means intentionally burning everything else down.
They will eventually be consumed by the fire too, but there is no real consolation in that if you care about human life.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack (phone): What was the original name?
StringOnAStick
@Yarrow: I have a meeting tonight with the metro area OFA group, organizing around exactly what you mention. I’ve been sending actions out to friends with the letters already written and the phone numbers included, but when it comes to actually showing up for stuff, I seem to be on my own. Unfortunately, people seem to be great about worrying and complaining, but to actually commit to doing something seems to be a bridge too far. I am at a loss over this; what will it take?
Felonius Monk
@Corner Stone:
You are surprised?
catclub
@Adam L Silverman:
wow. The news I read would have told me that immigration TO Israel is still increasing. If people are leaving Israel to return home that is bad news
for Netanyahu and fear.
It does seem crazy to think Jews overall will be safest if they only live in one place. Rather than helping make more places welcoming to all.
Ella in New Mexico
@schrodingers_cat:
No real dog in this fight about “offering solutions vs. going full Eeyore on the future”. But that statement struck me as unnecessarily territorial and hostile when I read it, particularly since yarrow wasn’t saying anything that a hundred other people here haven’t basically expressed.
chopper
@StringOnAStick:
i’m part of a community action group that formed after the election where i live. we are organizing and building an action plan as a community. i’m with you – all the talk about “it’s hopeless” just serves to depress this sort of thing. why should i even go?
Elizabelle
RE the difference between anxiety and fear.
Why We’re Living in the Age of Fear, by Neil Strauss, Rolling Stone, from October 2016.
Fear is enervating, and it and anxiety can be manipulated. Remember that.
Found this Strauss article through a blogpst by Nancy LeTourneau on WaMonthly’s Political Animal blog.
Living with Uncertainty and Fear
I love Nancy LeT.
Vigilance, peeps, but deep breaths too. And educate yourselves. (As people here are already wont to do.)
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: I’m sure the numbers are increasing year on year. Or at least constant. The problem is those news articles rarely report on the outflow. People don’t like living in a society that is, essentially, always on a war footing. It is mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausting. Those that can afford to leave do.
Elizabelle
@Corner Stone: What does that mean? I hoped you meant that Tillerson withdrew his nom, but not, unfortunately.
StringOnAStick
@chopper: President Obama has already said that he plans to work on the voter suppression problem once he becomes a private citizen again, along with Eric Holder That alone told me that OFA is the group I want to work with, and I expect it to become a revitalized force for good, and soon. I don’t want to go all “Obi wan, you’re our only hope”, but damn if I’m not thinking our only chance is to align myself with the guy with the charisma to get people’s attention!
Corner Stone
@Elizabelle: The NFL team in Buffalo fired their head coach Rex Ryan today.
Corner Stone
@Felonius Monk: Not at all. Mainly surprised, not surprised, that he keeps getting hired.
trollhattan
@mkro:
Yeah, he’s gotten away with his shenanigans every time at essentially no penalty and suddenly the keys to Washington are in his claws. This I suppose was his “Who’s your daddy now?” parting shot at Obama.
Any bets on when we ink an F35 deal with Israel?
With friends like these….
CDWard
Israel doesn’t want peace, it wants the Palestinian’s land. All of it. It also wants the Palestinians gone, either by ethnic cleansing (happening now) or by a Final Solution (in the works).
Xenos
@Peale: If the UN leaves NY, where will it go? Canada? The Netherlands? Switzerland?
I can think of workable places for it to go to, but nowhere that amounts to a net benefit for American influence. It must be beyond easy for us to spy on everybody right there in mid-town, for example.
Villago Delenda Est
@daveNYC: The Yom Kippur war was in ’73. At one point the cabinet seriously considered launching the nukes, the situation (especially in the Golan) was so dire.
Betty Cracker
@StringOnAStick: Anecdata =/= data, of course, but in my circle, people are unprecedentedly afraid, angry and ready to take action. I’ve found it heartening, actually.
Villago Delenda Est
@CDWard: And this is why Reinhard Heydrich is laughing his ass off in Hell.
Patricia Kayden
@catclub: Exactly. Living in one place would make it easier for your enemies to know where to attack you. Doesn’t make sense. What a sad world we would have if Jews only lived in one country anyways.
hovercraft
@Xenos:
Probably to their European ‘headquarters’ Geneva. Several UN agencies are already headquartered there, and since they are neutral, it would be a natural fit. But it’s not going to happen, it would be an incredible loss of prestige.
Patricia Kayden
@CDWard: I assume that there are many Israelis on the Left who don’t fit into your description. The same will soon be said of those of us on the American Left when Prez Trump starts doing stupid stuff in our name.
Jinchi
@catclub:
Apparently, he already has, although his position appears to change on a dime.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: I’m with Ms. Cat. That “maybe no elections in 2018” comment is whack. Hyperbole.
Don’t make Balloon Juice so enervating and cargo cultish.
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: That ship has sailed, starting with W and now with T.
Villago Delenda Est
@Elizabelle: The National Anthem is a lie.
This is the home of bed wetting cowards.
Elizabelle
@Villago Delenda Est: All the more reason to push back on all the fear. It destabilizes a society. This is being done on purpose.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: In this way, he’s not that dissimilar from Daesh, which wants anti-Muslim sentiment to soar, so Muslims will rally around Daesh.
Another Scott
@Jerzy Russian:
Of course. It’s Obama’s administration, so of course he is “behind” this. Bibi is trying to rile up the rubes.
But another element of this is Donnie tweeting and trying to get Egypt (IIRC) to withdraw the resolution before it came up for a vote. Undoubtedly Obama knew what was going on behind the scenes there and made sure that Power knew his thinking about it. At least that seems likely to me… (perhaps he knew Powers’ thinking and the State Department and UN Ambassador’s offices were all ready so well aware of what the sensible policy on the vote should be that no additional discussion was necessary.)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Davis X. Machina
@catclub: It’s called Yeridah, and it’s not a problem — you just don’t talk about it, and it goes away.
The 250,000 illegal immigrants, most from African countries, are similarly treated. They’re a source of growth rapidly as important, or more so, than people making Aliyah.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: Thanks Elizabelle! I was kinda feeling outnumbered.
schrodingers_cat
@Villago Delenda Est: Pakistan is a cautionary tale of what happens when a country makes a hard right turn towards RW state with its basis in religion.
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: Welcome to the jungle, baby! You’re gonna diiieeee!!
Stan
Again, the War of ramadan / Yom Kippur was in october 1973. I remember it well because US Army units in Germany were stripped of their tanks and antitank missiles so they could be flown to Israel.
I will agree 1973 was essentially a defensive war from the Israeli point of view. They were attacked by Syria and Egypt. Their other wars, with the possible exception of 1948, were certainly wars of aggression. 1948 is kinda a mixed bag IMHO. Yes, Israel was attacked, but they were seeking to take land that belonged to someone else, so, you can classify that any way you like.
Kay
I would sure like all those Lefties on Twitter who predicted Trump would be less belligerent on foreign policy than Clinton would to please step forward.
Why did they think that? Because of what he SAID? Guffaw. He lies constantly. That’s the one consistent trait this person has- lying. He believes in… lying. They thought he would only lie about trade and immigration but not “foreign policy”? Immigration and trade are foreign policy.
Chris
@chopper:
So at the same time that he’s telling us in Washington that he’s the voice of Jerusalem, he’s telling them in Jerusalem that he’s the voice of Washington.
Neat trick.
It’s not hard to guess that Chalabi used a similar one a decade and a half ago…
StringOnAStick
@Betty Cracker: I am heartened by people being receptive to what I’ve sent out for actions, and I realize people are busy and don’t all have time to go to meetings. I hope interest in resistance will increase once people start seeing what they’re really up to. I feel like everyone is in a state of heightened alertness, but not yet able to aim their fire because the shitgibbon isn’t POTUS yet.
I usually work part time so I have the time and interest in this stuff, though I will be full-time for all of January and therefore exhausted so we’ll see how useful I am during that period. I’m an RDH who can no longer do a full time position due to hand issues, but I can do it for a short length of time while a co-worker is away.
germy
It’s official. 2016 has taken another one.
Carrie Fisher has died.
“It is with a very deep sadness that Billie Lourd confirms that her beloved mother Carrie Fisher passed away at 8:55 this morning,” Family spokesman Simon Halls said in a statement. “She was loved by the world and she will be missed profoundly. Our entire family thanks you for your thoughts and prayers.”
Elizabelle
I really am curious. Who is yarrow?
Some good comments, but some more whack than usual too. And here constantly.
What was the original name? I wish folks would use fka (formerly known as) in their nyms, for a good while, because pen names are great, but it’s cool to know who we’re dealing with. To the extent that we can, as keyboard commandos.
I guess we could make it into a guessing game. Who used to have a ‘nym with an apostrophe …
SiubhanDuinne
RIP Carrie Fisher.
Dear god, this year.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
I think it was Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis who commented that American and Soviet hard-liners were complementary and propped each other up. Racists, fundamentalists and other bigots have taken that observation and turned it into a lifestyle.
Elizabelle
@germy: Sad, but that may be the best for Carrie. Who wants to live as a shell, when one was vibrant originally, because of oxygen loss. Her family got to spend time and say goodbye.
Chris
@germy:
@SiubhanDuinne:
Well, fuck.
This year blows.
ETA: my best friend on Facebook: “the soundtrack for 2016 is now officially ‘Another One Bites The Dust.'”
Spanky
@germy: Fuck.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Yup. We all recognize the difficulty of the next few years, but continually being reminded of how difficult it will be, and “what might have been”, can be dis-spiriting.
I kinda know where Yarrow is coming from as I get in that kind of posting mode too. It’s easy to think that if a post here doesn’t get many (or any) comments then that means that people haven’t seen it, so there’s a big temptation to post it again in the next thread or two. That is one benefit of some sort of “reader recognition” widget – “Yeah, I saw it, yeah it’s worthwhile, but I don’t have anything to say about it at the moment” – has value and doesn’t disrupt the conversation like “Ditto!” can.
So, personally, I try to avoid repeating myself too quickly.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@Elizabelle: I have it on good authority that Steeplejack (phone) is actually a long term sleeper agent. He has infiltrated this blog under cover of long time commenter Steeplejack as a ruse to sow seeds of discord and targeted dezinformatsiya. Steeplejack (phone) makes assertions based on “third party” information so it can never be held against him. You should also keep a wary eye out for Steeplejack (tablet) as he, too, is an infiltrator planning his own version of La Reconquista by supporting secession of Texas and the CalExit movements.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Was not me.
Everything out of his mouth was an affront to 60 years of American foreign policy. May not have been perfect, but the Generals assigned to keep the peace, knew the arena in which they were operating, and how to maneuver.
Lizzy L
@schrodingers_cat: Late to the thread, but yeah, I agree with you. Enough already. Spreading fear and pushing anxiety is a tactic of our opponents. We don’t need to do it. I think we all recognize the danger T and his enablers pose to democracy, but IMO the doom-and-gloom rhetoric is unhelpful. Myself, I prefer the snarling jackal attitude to the Oh-my-god-we’re-all-gonna-die stuff.
Others may disagree, as is their right.
Elizabelle
TMZ reports Carrie never regained consciousness; unresponsive throughout.
I kinda thought that “stable condition” report was doing a lot of heavy lifting.
RIP, Carrie. You used your gifts well, and wittily.
Villago Delenda Est
@germy: 2016….can’t wait to see it in the rear view mirror.
Elizabelle
@Lizzy L: On Team Lizzy L, too.
rikyrah
@germy:
RIP Carrie.
2016 – brutal.
germy
@Elizabelle: Stable condition means unchanged. It’s not always positive news, but that’s how journalists sometimes report it.
HeleninEire
I wrote a few nights ago about how I feel about Bibi. My opinion is related to his response to 9/11. He is a war monger, plain and simple.
liberal
@daveNYC: It was self-defense, and Sadat undertook it after Israel steadfastly refused to trade land for peace, IIRC.
Elizabelle
@Corner Stone: No doubt. That “housecat in a heated throw” is spyspeak or a signal.
For … something …
mai naem mobile
RIP Carrie Fisher. Jesus still another 4-5 days to go in this shitty year.
Mike in DC
RIP Carrie Fisher. 4 days left in this year. Fingers crossed.
rikyrah
Facing Down Laughably Hypocritical Demands We Respect Republican Donald Trump
By Unshaken Defiancerss
POLITICS
I don’t think so. Nope, not after how the GOP treated Obama as they did. Fox News. Trump himself went birther. I will show Donald Trump all the respect the racist bankrupt and crooked real estate shyster shows Muslims, Islam, Mexicans, immigrants and others simply not as white and (allegedly) wealthy as he.
Chicago Tribune
liberal
@HeleninEire:
You know, don’t you, that a van full of Israelis with ties to an Israeli intelligence service was parked somewhere (NJ? I think) where they could see the Twin Towers, and they were ecstatic when the planes hit.
StringOnAStick
@Elizabelle: So true. Being a shell of your former self is so hard on the person and all their loved ones. They had some time to say good bye and hopefully that helped them come to terms with what had happened.
We lost my husband’s brother and their father in such a fashion this year; we knew the time was coming, just not exactly when, and when it did, it was swift. It was awful at the time but now I think the suddenness was best for all and especially for them.
liberal
@CDWard:
This has always been Israel’s plan. (Though I don’t think the Final Solution part is true…why do it when you can do it by ethnic cleansing?) Including under Labor governments. AFAICT the only Jewish parties that might have been against it were to Labor’s left (not really sure).
Jinchi
@mkro:
Because the Dems are very likely to be in power again, someday. Netanyahu is making a dangerous gamble, tying the fate of Israel to the political fortunes of a foreign political party. They could end up with no allies at all in the very near future.
germy
I’m not a George Michael fan; never collected his music or sought it out, but last summer we saw the Key and Peele movie “Keanu” and one of the plot points is that the character played by Keegan-Michael Key is a major fan. The music plays through the movie. There is even a scene where Key smokes some of the “product” and hallucinates the talking cat and meeting George Michael.
For weeks after seeing the film I found myself humming the songs. I can see why he had such devoted fans.
I admired Carrie Fisher for avoiding the Hollywood trap. Instead she was a real writer. And witty as hell about the environment she swam in.
hovercraft
@germy:
This year just keeps getting worse.
RIP Carrie Fisher.
I keep wishing this year would end, but then I remember…….
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle:
You and me both! I didn’t know why he was considered “sexy,” although John Goodman was when he imitated him.
Elizabelle
@StringOnAStick: A best friend from childhood suffered a brain aneurysm, and struck her head hard on a cement floor, when she fell.
Her husband kept her on life support long enough for family to come and spend some quality time and say goodbye. They said it was hard to see her, so beautiful, and knowing she would never wake up. But think they appreciated the opportunity.
Corner Stone
@zhena gogolia: IIRC he was nicknamed Sexy Rexy while at NY Jets because he spoke about inappropriate boudoir time stuff with his wife and how he had a foot fetish that got him going.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for that.
That kind of thinking is dangerous and fascinating and pathological. :-(
I kinda think that in, maybe, 100 years, we’ll understand enough about the brain to understand and possibly “fix” thinking like that. Thinking that what’s most important is personal power, no matter how many others have to suffer and die in the process of maximizing personal power is monstrous.
Erdogan, Kim, Yahya Jammeh, etc., etc., (and probably Donnie), all of them (and more) have the same pathology. We need to figure out a way to fix it without them deciding that we’re the ones that need to be “fixed”…
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@Jinchi:
Shoot. Have you seen any soundbyte by a D politician from the NorthEast area?
Chris
@Jinchi:
More generally:
Tying the survival of your country to the goodwill of one foreign country is fucking insane, just on general principle.
Tying the survival of your country to the goodwill of only one of the two political parties in that foreign country is beyond deranged, just on general principle.
Eggs, basket, etc.
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan: We already have one. Its one of the reasons we have an F35 program. The F22 was never put into the Foreign Military Sales Program. The reason for this is the concern that if we did so we couldn’t restrict who among our allies and partners we sell it to. The concern was if we sold it to the Israelis they would then sell the design specs under the table to the folks they always do business with under the table. So a second platform had to be developed.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: If you chart Hamas and PIJ attacks during Bibi’s first rise to the Prime Ministership on a graph and cross correlate them with his rhetoric about the threat from terrorism and that only he and his party in charge could protect Israelis, you get some really interesting correlational points. Basically they were enabling each other. Hamas and PIJ knew the best thing for them was Netanyahu as PM and Likud as the ruling party in Knesset. Netanyahu knew he needed Hamas and PIJ violence to make his political messaging resonate.
ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
No he is not very smart. People who have his outlook or bent if you will, really aren’t worldly thinkers. WF Buckley sounded smart because he used big words and could sound somewhat logical. But he wasn’t really all that smart because he held the same view as todays conservatives, that hate is the best idea. The dogma used to be somewhat hidden behind the words of fiscal responsibility, but that is by now, obviously bullshit.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: “Those who control others seek power. Those who control themselves seek the Way (Tao)”
catclub
@Jinchi: It should not be a matter of aligning with either the Democrats or the GOP for another nation.
Germany or France aligning with either party makes no sense. Russia and Israel aligning with one party are not good signs.
Smedley the uncertain
@Corner Stone: Did he take Carpenter with him? That guy cost the Bills alot…
catclub
@Adam L Silverman: The age of Taoism and Buddhism, suggests the 100 year timeline that Scott mentioned, may be optimistic.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
Speaking of the Chicago Tribune, they have this polluting their commentary page this morning.
So you see, it’s the democrats fault for not focusing on the economically anxious white working class. If only they hadn’t focused on busing, and equality and all those other things that are part of identity politics, Hillary would have won. The problem is not the media, racism, the loss of power by white men, it is that we are too arrogant, and need to be more humble about our failures.
Chris
@ruckus:
I think the real stupidity inherent to conservatism is the belief that all the answers have already been discovered and that they know them – whether the sacred text they cling to is the Bible, the Constitution, or Atlas Shrugged. It means they’re incapable of “thinking” about politics in the most basic way possible, because they’ve already decided that it’s basically impossible for anyone else to someday know better than the people they worship.
(It’s the eternal problem conservatives have with academia and “intellectuals.”)
Chris
@hovercraft:
Jesus fucking Christ.
“The people” voted for Hillary Clinton by several million votes.
If you want to say “the Democrats need to recapture their image as the electoral college’s party,” that’s one thing, but “the people’s party” is emphatically not the problem here.
rikyrah
@hovercraft:
Lips pursed.
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: Who is this person and why should I care?
hovercraft
@schrodingers_cat:
Some asshole who used to be a religion editor for Newsweek, the essay is an adaptation from his book :“Getting Religion: Faith, Culture, and Politics From the Age of Eisenhower to the Era of Obama”, and one of the many assholes who will feel compelled to give the democrats advice over the next few years.
@Chris:
Given that it’s an except from a book, I assume it was written before the election, so his lament was about the fact that regardless of the outcome, we were going to lose the white vote, so he was giving us ‘pointers’ on how to get it back.
@rikyrah:
You’re more self contained than I am, I turned the air blue when I read it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat: whenever I see a headline like that I go straight to the bottom of the column to see what the author’s history is. Not much help here, but down toward the end he trots out the old chestnut about how meanie-meanie-mean Bill Clinton was to that wonderful and highly principled pro-life liberal Bob Casey in 1992.
Even if that story weren’t highly contested, it was twenty. five. fucking. years ago. Republican presidential candidates have been hushing up their stance on abortion since Dumbya’s two-speech strategy (one for bible-y crowds one for regular Americans– used advisedly).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
here’s another view of Obama and the blessed, troubled, anxious WWC
Elkhart, IN, where the major employer is the RV industry, which would have been wiped out if Obama hadn’t, without help or encouragement or approval from Republicans, saved the larger auto industry.
Versions of this article have been written for years about Elkhart, and there’s more than a bit of both-sides-ism in it, but you gotta love how they all wave their flags about Carrier having been bailed out with their state tax dollars, but Obama gets now credit for saving their local economy.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Elizabelle:
I thought it was I’mNotSure…, but a quick search says that he became Another Scott. So maybe I’m wrong.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack (tablet): Thank you.
The writing style is vaguely familiar, but that could be nothing …
ETA: I had been watching, with concern, a bit, since some of the comments were kind of apocalyptic. In the wake of fake news and our other trolls, I didn’t know what to make of the situation. Name I didn’t recall seeing much before, certainly not before the election, and some of the comments were sane and some were less so.
Chris
@hovercraft:
I stand corrected, but my point remains valid, even if he couldn’t have known that at the time.
hovercraft
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Exactly, Elkhart is the epitome of this dumbassedness, in 2012 they said that Obama had saved them, he was the reason they had jobs and had held onto their homes. But things were better now, so they were going to vote for RMoney, because he would be better for them. At the time they were already working double shifts and what not, but they wanted to go back to their regular voting pattern.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Corner Stone:
Damned lies! And I speak for all three of us.
A Democratic Thinker
@hovercraft:
When I was very young I found the Leon Uris novels about the Warsaw uprising and the Zionist creation of Israel… very positive viewpoints of the heroes of the beginning of modern Israel.
So I was a big supporter of the rights of the Jews to settle in Israel… but not so much a supporter of their right to steal olive groves from people who planted the trees 300 years ago.
The obvious fact that every inch of soil used for West Bank “settlements” is stolen from the Arabs who have lived on that soil and owned that soil for centuries makes it impossible for me to be a full-bore open-ended supporter of Israel as it exists today. A two-state solution requires actual land for that second state, and when the first state is completely all over stealing all the land that could one day be that second state, it is obvious the first state’s, Israel’s, current government is not the least bit interested in a peace settlement with the Arabs living within the current boundaries of Israel.
Bibi is currently interested in stealing land to make the right wing parties of his coalition happy, and accumulating more power, personally. Sounds like Trump and Putin to me, each man with a different color painted over him to conceal his greed.
We are in deep trouble right now. We’ll be lucky to have open borders for US passport holders for long. And wow am I glad I know how to use a pistol for self-protection!
Barry
Betty Cracker: “But this action strikes me as a further placement of all of Israel’s eggs in the Republican basket, which is now the Trump basket. And we know what else is in that basket, even if Netanyahu doesn’t. What an incredibly foolish move.”
I don’t think that these guys believe that it’s possible that the US government would fail (in general) to support Israel, much less become enemies.
And given that the majority of the GOP is a bunch of Rapture-believing End Times b*stards, it’s probably a good bet.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack (tablet): Da, komrade. Spasibo!
Miss Bianca
@hovercraft: Funny, that’s the same hectoring that some of the BernieBros here have been giving us…
Anonymous patient
@Napoleon:
Actually, we witnessed the LAST open election in the USA in 2012. Since then they have been fraudulent since voter registration, voting precinct support and the voting infrastructure have all been co-opted by Republican officials with no interest in fair and open elections. The elections in Russia are like unto the election of Trump.
Look at North Carolina – Democratic governor is elected, the day before he takes office, the Republicans remove all powers from the office of the governor. The whole state is gerrymandered, the legislature is completely out of control and totally not interested in the American way of political life. In North Carolina the Confederates are committing Treason in defense of racism, hate, and to crush freedom of religion and lifestyle.
No, the days of Free American Elections ended well before 2016. It just took a while before the changes took effect. And when the Brownshirts come for me, I will not go willingly, they will pay a blood price for my life.
Chris
@A Democratic Thinker:
The thing that underlies a ton of our Israel policy, that’s not polite to say out loud but that you probably will hear more and more of under a Trump admin, is that for most of this country’s diehard Israel supporters (and I mean Christians more than Jews), Israel/Palestine policy is basically just acting out Bible fan fiction. God said all this land belongs to Israel, therefore all this land belongs to Israel (and the nation-state known as “Israel” created in 1947 is exactly the same entity as the Kingdom of Israel that existed over 2000 years ago, because reasons). If there are Others in the way, “sucks to be them but what can you do lol.”
Sure, most of the people who actually make a living in foreign policy know it’s not that simple, but they’re not the ones who elect the politicians who make the decisions.
FlipYrWhig
@hovercraft:
Why don’t Republicans have to try to forge a self-image as “the people’s party”? They just elected a so-called populist on the strength of so-called working class people (neither of which are true, but to pundits they are). Don’t they need to start making plans for how to please them? Why is it that Democrats have to go out of their way to represent everybody and deal with all the contradictions that result from that, and Republicans can just be rapacious, greedy douchebags who do nothing for anyone?
And, not for nothing, but Republicans are ENTIRELY the party of “righteousness,” insofar as the only thing that holds them together is resentment that Good People Like Them are getting screwed.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: So how was your Christmas? You survived it without any major incident?
Stan
@Chris:
And yet, that was the major foreign policy plank of all of western Europe from 1945 till….maybe january 2017. Worked pretty well for them too.
Stan
@Chris:
Exactly this. They had no clue what the real history is, nor what is really going on over there.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
You know, there’s a difference between show elections and real elections, don’t you?
If everyone isn’t able to vote (really, required to vote!) and people are afraid to even talk about leadership without looking behind them, that won’t be a real election. It will be a sham, show election, just to prove that Trump knows how to put on a good party, culminating in a big show.
Like so many authoritarian little countries with big leaders who can’t ever lose.
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: It was mercifully brief. And over with.
ruckus
@Chris:
Basically we are saying the same thing. Conservative ideas lack substance because they are based on faulty, one can’t really call them thoughts, more like base reactions, that have been proven wrong time and time again.
Another Scott
@Steeplejack (tablet): Just to amplify: I’m not Yarrow and I’ve only had one (semi-permanent) ‘nym here – I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet. (I might have briefly used another one in testing.)
I don’t recall Yarrow being anyone else, but it’s possible.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chris
@Stan:
To a point. It was also “tying all of our survivals together,” in order to prevent another war, and unifying the continent was part of that too. In the cases of Britain and France, they also developed their nuclear deterrent precisely because they didn’t want to rely entirely on the U.S, though Israel has done that too.
But the main difference is that Western Europe didn’t spend decades going around kicking everyone in the shins and then running and hiding behind America’s skirts, expecting it to provide cover. (On a couple of occasions where it did something like that, as in Suez, it was quickly disillusioned). Which is exactly what Israel’s been doing. Western Europe made the best of a bad situation – they were at a point where they had no choice but to embrace Moscow or embrace Washington, and they got insanely lucky with the “Washington” they had to deal with. Israel has made its own situation worse and worse and actually brought about the situation where they can no longer count on anyone but the U.S. I view that as fundamentally different from Western Europe’s choices after 1945.
@ruckus:
Sounds about right. I endorse your summarization of our views.
Seth Owen
@daveNYC: Yom Kippur War was 1973.
J R in WV
@hovercraft:
The Chicago Tribune is now and always has been a tool of the oppressors, against personal freedom, against racial equality, against democracy as the position that all adults in a free nation get to vote.
They will all spend the next 4 years (or so) fellating Donald J Trump. And enjoying it. Sad!