Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Consistently wrong since 2002

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War for Ukraine Day 284: The Ordnance Fired at Kharkiv

War for Ukraine Day 284: The Ordnance Fired at Kharkiv

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Earlier today the Ukrainian MOD tweeted out the image above. The picture is from Kharkiv and was takne by Kostiantin & Vlada Liberov. It is all of the ordnance that the Russians have fired at Kharkiv since the start of the war. Here is the original tweeted out by the photographer:

The message in the tweet translates as:

Kharkiv. Cemetery of shells. I am the author of the photo. Please, when you see this photo under a different signature, ask to correct it. We will not build a rule of law by neglecting copyright.

Just a brief post tonight.

Here’s President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump:

Indomitable people of an indomitable country!

The fourth day of this winter is coming to an end. The winter, which will obviously be difficult. But still, it is worth perceiving this winter not as a test, but as time – time that brings us closer to the main thing – to victory. Each of these 90 winter days.

The enemy really hopes to use winter against us: to make winter cold and hardship part of his terror. We have to do everything to endure this winter, no matter how hard it is. And we will endure. To endure this winter is to defend everything.

Russia still has missiles and an advantage in artillery. Yes, but we have something that the occupier does not have and will not have. We defend our home, and that gives us the strongest motivation possible. We fight for freedom, and that always multiplies any force. We defend the truth, and this unites the whole world around Ukraine.

We see happy people when they meet the Ukrainian flag in liberated cities – wherever Ukraine returns. The people, the Armed Forces, all of us return. And this means they are waiting for us wherever there is still an occupation. They are waiting and they believe that Ukraine will return. They are waiting and they know very well: if Russia invades, it will not be forever.

To get through this winter, we have to help each other more than ever and care for each other even more. And please don’t ask if you can help, and how. Just help when you see you can.

To get through the winter, we have to be even more resilient and even more united than ever. There can be no internal conflicts and strife, which can weaken us all, even if someone out there thinks that somehow it will strengthen him personally. We need more interaction than ever. All of Ukraine has to become one big Point of Invincibility and work every day, work every night. The state, business, people – all of us, Ukrainians, all together.

This autumn, a lot was done to strengthen the position of the state and to make the occupier lose. We must do everything so that the same can be said after this winter. Ukrainians worked round the clock to restore normal life after the Russian strikes. And no matter how large-scale the terror of the occupiers was, our desire to restore everything in our home was always even greater. It should continue to be so.

Our defense forces firmly hold positions and even the most difficult directions. How many times have the occupiers planned to capture all of Donbas, to be in Bakhmut… How many times have they already announced new deadlines for their advance, their victories… Our guys are true heroes.

And this is our key task – both for the state and the people – to do everything to support our defense forces, to strengthen our defense forces, to find everything necessary for our defense forces in the world.

I know how difficult it is in Bakhmut, in Donbas. Guys, hold on! I am with you. The people are with you.

In order to carry out this task – to carry it out successfully – we must always support each other, precisely for this. And I thank everyone who helps strengthen Ukraine and who after this winter will definitely be able to say that the approach of our victory is also his or her personal result, a personal achievement.

Glory to all who fight for Ukraine and who work for Ukrainians!

Glory to our strong people!

Glory to Ukraine!

Here’s former NAVDEVGRU Squadron Leader Chuck Pfarrer’s most recent assessments of the situations in Bakhmut:

Here’s his previous one:

Here is a very interesting analysis from Gabriellus Lansbergis, Lithuania’s Foreign Minister.  First tweet below, the rest copied and pasted from the Thread Reader app:

The tactic of leaving Russia undefeated and ready for future partnership is toxic. It leads to calls to end the war by negotiation instead of ending it with a Ukrainian victory. Some even suggest Ukrainian territorial concessions to the invaders as a gift. 
That isn’t how the rules-based international order works. Russia shouldn’t get invited to ‘peace’ negotiations as a reward for brutally invading, occupying and murdering its neighbours again and again. 
The creeping normalisation of Russia’s actions is fundamentally wrong. Also misguided is the belief that the current security architecture of multilateral regional and global organizations must be preserved as the ‘best we have’. 
International organisations completely failed to prevent conflict of a magnitude unseen in Europe since WW2. At the very least there must be change within those organizations. But we should not rule out the possibility of some organisations disappearing and new ones forming. 
With previous conflicts in Europe, the security architecture was rethought after the fighting ended, new structures appeared. For example, the United Nations appeared after mistakes made during the League of Nations era. 
First Russia has to face defeat on the battlefield. For that Ukraine needs all our help. All the weapons, all the assistance we can give. Otherwise Russia will continue trying to reinvent the continent according to its own imperialist world vision. 
It is in Europe’s interest to fight off and defeat the invader. After this defeat a new system needs to be created out of the lessons learnt from previous mistakes. 
Reliance on economic exchange as a principle of mutual assurance, desecuritization, veto power on security issues given to the aggressors – these are some of the misconceptions which failed to ensure the safety of the continent. 
Our strategy needs to be rethought and reflected in a new security architecture that will ensure the safety of the continent for decades to come. And we should start creating this new system with Ukraine, not with Putin’s Russia. 

Kyiv:

Donbas:

This latest US support should help Ukraine’s air defense:

SIMI VALLEY, California — The U.S. military has sent threat emitters, built to replicate aircraft and weapons for American pilots to train, to Ukraine to confuse Russian aircraft in the latest innovative way for the Pentagon to assist. U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr. says.

That’s enough for tonight.

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And a new video from Patron’s official TikTok:

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Open thread!

Reader Interactions

83Comments

  2. 2.

    Gin & Tonic

    The second sentence in the Liberovs’ Tweet better translates as “We will not build a lawful nation…” or “We will not build a nation based on the rule of law…”

    That, in a nutshell, is what so much has been about since the “Maidan” movement of 2013-2014. Ukrainians simply want to live in a normal, modern, 21st Century European nation. They have lived through kleptocracy, and have made a choice.

  4. 4.

    Alison Rose

    This part of Zelenskyy’s address made me teary:

    russia still has missiles and an advantage in artillery. Yes, but we have something that the occupier does not have and will not have. We defend our home, and that gives us the strongest motivation possible. We fight for freedom, and that always multiplies any force. We defend the truth, and this unites the whole world around Ukraine.

    We see happy people when they meet the Ukrainian flag in liberated cities – wherever Ukraine returns. The people, the Armed Forces, all of us return. And this means they are waiting for us wherever there is still an occupation. They are waiting and they believe that Ukraine will return. They are waiting and they know very well: if russia invades, it will not be forever.

    The thread from Landsbergis is very moving, feels like a real call to action. I wonder how many other leaders agree and will say so out loud.

    I admit, I laughed out loud at the writing on the back of that vehicle. When Ze calls them indomitable, he really fucking means it. Beautiful.

    Thank you as always, Adam.

  5. 5.

    MomSense

    It’s been two weeks since Vitalik has posted and it’s such a departure from her multiple daily posts.  I’m so worried.  I hope she is ok and perhaps just unable to post because of lack of power or cell signal. I realize she is just one person, but I’ve become so attached to her and she is literally the lens (she’s a photographer) through which I’ve been bearing witness to this horrific war.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: I have said it here before and I’m sure I’ll say it again: expect more of this. The politicians they support winning election will encourage them to engage in more violence, the politicians they support losing election will encourage them to engage in more violence. The thing to keep in mind is Bernard Fall’s equation: RW=GW+PA. Revolutionary Warfare=Guerrilla Warfare+Political Action. Until or unless elected officials, the news media, and everyone else realizes that there is an ongoing revolutionary war being waged by a violent, reactionary minority of Americans agains the United States and all the rest of their fellow Americans the low intensity warfare will continue. Fall’s solution was CRW=CGW+CPA+CA or Counter-Revolutionary Warfare=Counter- Guerrilla Warfare+Counter-Political Action+Civic Action. Let me know if someone actually bothers to do any of that. I won’t be holding my breath.

  12. 12.

    Geminid

    @Adam L Silverman: Do you think the person or persons who shot up the electrical infrastructure in Moore County will be caught? Will they face federal terrorism charges if they are?

  14. 14.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, thank you for reminding me of your previous post on the subject.  I dug it up and sent it to a friend (of good will, though a little naive).  And again, thank you for the long-running seminar (going on at least seven years, I’ve followed it) in political science, applied to our country and system.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Geminid: I have no idea. They haven’t caught the people that shot up a station like this in California in 2013. I also expect little from the DOJ. Which generally keeps me from being disappointed.

  16. 16.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Adam L Silverman: Is it still mainly Wagner forces pushing toward Bakhmut, or has the Russian Army now taken over? Either way, the Russians are throwing men away there rather than shoring up the more precarious positions on the front.

  17. 17.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: The Moore County electrical outages were reported on the CBS radio news just now. The anchor said that “the FBI is investigating,” and they played audio from the Moore County Sheriff’s news conference.

  18. 18.

    Spanky

    @Geminid: According to the Moore County Board of Elections, Republicans enjoy a 2:1 advantage in registered voters. Republicans won every slot on the 2022 ballot, sometimes uncontested. Republican Sherriff Ronnie Fields won uncontested. This is the guy doing the investigating. Draw your conclusions.

    ETA, living in a Maryland county with a similar rural political profile I can say that the Sherriff sets the tone for the whole force, and if he’s been there a while he’s personally hired a lot of them.

  23. 23.

    SpaceUnit

    Feels to me as though this war has been going on forever.  I can only imagine what it feels like to the Ukrainians.

    Why is all that ordinance in the photo not completely obliterated?  Those are all rockets and missiles and explosive shells right?

  25. 25.

    Spanky

    @SpaceUnit: The east end of a westbound missile is a pretty dense arrangement of parts, and (obviously) stays intact. And the russians have started firing missiles designed for nuclear warheads, with dummy warheads attached. No boom, just a big thud.

  27. 27.

    Geminid

    @Spanky: I’m not sure what you are saying or implying. Are you suggesting that the Sheriff and his deputies are going to lay down on the job?

  28. 28.

    SpaceUnit

    @Spanky:

    Okay.  I just assumed the entire assembly would become little more than countless mangled fragments.

    I am fortunate in that I’ve only seen such things in the movies.

  29. 29.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JPL: I know that if we have anywhere near the *organization* that the Ukrainians have, we will show courage.  I’ll show up to carry stretchers, if nothing else (b/c I can’t shoot worth a damn).  But that’s the question, isn’t it?  Are our state and local governments going to *do* something when the time comes?  B/c otherwise, we’ll be like the Syrian opposition: a rabble, easy picking for organized military units.

    I’m not optimistic about our local governments getting their shit together.  Because there are far too many normies who don’t want to believe that the hour is really late.

  30. 30.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Spanky: My late friend  Chris used to make fun of people who claimed to hear God’s will. “God only spoke to Moses twice,” Chris would point out, “and Moses lived to be 120!”

  31. 31.

    JPL

    @Geminid: I do because when you read the article you come to the conclusion that certain members of the society have no consequences for their actions.

    I don’t think it can happen in my little burb, but it certainly can happen in north GA.

  32. 32.

    JPL

    @Geminid: Years ago, someone told me that after several years  god told her she didn’t have to take more beatings from her husband.  I held my tongue but wanted to say it wouldn’t take me that long.   All I said is I’m glad you found peace.  They have a small g god.

  36. 36.

    Spanky

    @Geminid: You would think that stupid shit like this that impacts 100% of the citizens would be treated as seriously as it should be. Let us hope so. But I’m not gonna put money on there being convictions.

  37. 37.

    Geminid

    @JPL: Moore County is not in North Georgia. Its a county west of Fayetteville, Nort Carolina with a population of 99,000.

    This is not to say that the Sheriff isn’t going to protect tbe shooters, or that the crime will go unsolved by the FBI for 9 years as happened in California.

    But I think the shooter will likely be captured. I bet some friends and acquaintances know who he is, and not all of tbem will resist the reward Duke Power will probably offer.

    But this is all speculation right now.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve mentioned her before. She is a professional photographer I have been following her since long before the war.  Her work has been in galleries, museums, fashion magazines like Italian Vogue, etc.  When the war began she started doing portraits and interviews with people she met in bomb shelters.  She had a whole series of wedding, baptism, and other portraits that she had done prior to the war. she would then go take photos or the subjects would send photos of their lives now compared with their lives before.
    She was also really happy about our efforts here to raise funds.  The quilt fundraisers inspired her to sell her work.
    Anyway she had been posting Instagram stories multiple times per day and saving those stories to highlight reels on Instagram since the first day.  She’s been completely silent now for weeks.  Her highlight  reels are amazing and a good resource for people to see images, videos and her thoughts.  She is tribalcat on Instagram.  Her name is Vitalik Denys. I think she also has a Twitter account but rarely posted to it.
    I’m just really worried about her.

  41. 41.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid: ​
     

    No way of knowing how many times the Lord spoke to Moses, but at least according to the book of Exodus, it happened a considerable number of times. Well into double figures.

  43. 43.

    lowtechcyclist

    It’s a trivial point, but I prefer their delineation of the seasons (e.g. winter = december, january, february) to our equinox/solstice-based definitions.  I’ve always thought that, for instance, December 15th is typically more wintry than March 15th, and how we define the seasons should reflect that.

  44. 44.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Steeplejack: ​
     

    I guess we’ll see, but this time the crazies have taken on the power company, and they won’t want shit like this to happen again.

  45. 45.

    SpaceUnit

    @lowtechcyclist:

    It occurred to me years ago that if a person could travel in time such a person could go back to the Bronze Age and establish himself or herself as a god with only a few cheap Bic lighters.

    I suspect that this explains not only the burning bush in the Bible but why in the future time-travel has been permanently banned.

  46. 46.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: “feel a little twinge…” That’s a good one! He can read a room.

    I wonder if Mr. Schooley will update his tweet now that CBS reports that the FBI is investigating. Maybe he will..

  48. 48.

    Bill Arnold

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I guess we’ll see, but this time the crazies have taken on the power company, and they won’t want shit like this to happen again.

    Russia (e.g. Sergey Lavrov)  is attempting to normalize the deliberate damage to power and communications infrastructure at the moment. (Not saying anything about motives, just pointing out the similarity.)

  50. 50.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Bill Arnold: The moment I read about this terrorist attack, I instantly thought of Barbara F. Walter’s How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them.

  51. 51.

    NutmegAgain

    @lowtechcyclist: Where I live (New England) December 15? Winter is just getting started. But March 15–well it’s still here, and we’re lucky if we’ve gotten to mud season. March generally sucks, in terms of weather, outdone only by late February!

  52. 52.

    Steeplejack

    @Geminid:

    It’s a valid observation in general. Just yesterday (emphasis mine):

    A massive convergence of right wing militants in Columbus, some armed, just shut down a drag holiday event. Organizers expected police to show, unsurprisingly, they did not.

    Or they did dressed in black/yellow.

    Proud Boys and Patriot Front are emboldened after Club Q.
    pic.twitter.com/NKipDnufNR

    — Erin Reed (@ErinInTheMorn) December 3, 2022

  54. 54.

    columbusqueen

    OT, but I’ve now gone from a 4 cat household to 6. The guy we got Quentin & Kermit from was up against it earlier this week with moving, so we took in his 2 other tomcats, Smoke & Yeller. Mike doesn’t think we can afford to keep all of them, but we keep hitting brick walls when we try to rehouse any. Given how happy all the boys seem to be in their clowder, I’m trying to find a new job so we can manage. Wish me luck, all!

  55. 55.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: So, are you saying you think that the Moore County Sheriff’s department will shrug off these crimes? I live in a red, rural/exurban county and I don’t think our Sheriff would. Neither would the state police, much less the FBI. I expect a full course press. And I don’t anticipate jury nullification either.

  56. 56.

    Steeplejack

    @Geminid:

    So, are you saying you think that the Moore County Sheriff’s department will shrug off these crimes?

    No. I said it’s a “valid observation in general.” But I will note that Moore County Sheriff Ronnie Fields has already characterized the incident as “vandalism” rather than what it more likely is, terrorism. Hence the interest of the feds.

    Matt Henry: Where did the word “vandalism” come from here? Was it from law enforcement? Copaganda isn’t just when you use passive voice to describe police killing someone. It’s also when you minimize right-wing terrorism as if it was the same thing as subway graffiti.

    What RSchooley’s tweet alluded to, and which doesn’t seem too hard to grasp, is that we have seen more and more data points of local law enforcement—sheriffs and police departments—taking right-wing provocations lightly or outright ignoring them. This incident is drawing significant attention because it is at a very large scale, but it is on a continuum with, for example, armed thugs disrupting a drag-queen story hour. Those incidents often seem to quickly disappear from view.

  58. 58.

    Lyrebird

    @MomSense: Thank you for the update, and I hope there’s a more concrete and happy one soon.  I have been saying prayers for him since you mentioned him a week ago or thereabouts.  This Vogue page and the name spelling are why I say “him” but who knows.

  61. 61.

    Geminid

    In some Ukraine-related news, from AP:

        Russisn authorities reject a price cap set on Russian oil by countries supporting Ukraine, and threaten on Saturday to stop supplying the nations that endorsed it.

    Under Friday’s agreements, insurance companies and other firms needed to ship oil would only be able to deal with Russian crude if the oil is priced at or below the cap [of $60 per barrel]. Russian oil is already selling at around $60 abarrel, a deep discount from the  international benchmark Brent, which closed Friday at $85.42 per barrel.

  62. 62.

    Kelly

    @lowtechcyclist: Meteorologists define winter as December, January and February. I think the seasons are about the weather so I agree with the meteorologists. The astronomers should stay in their, highly elevated, lane.

  63. 63.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: I know. You’re making a more general point. But you keep making it to me like I am unaware of it because I’m saying something different about the Moore County crimes.

  64. 64.

    dr. luba

    @Kelly: In Slavic (and Ukrainian) tradition, winter begins on December 1, and Spring begins on March 1.

    So we agree with the meteorologists, too.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @Geminid:

    I stressed the general point because you went right to “Are you saying you think that the Moore County Sheriff’s department will shrug off these crimes?”

  67. 67.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: I asked that question because all I’ve talked about here was the Moore County crimes, and you and others keep bringing up this general issue as if poor Gemind’s in denial. It’s condescending.

    You don’t need  to tag me to make this general point. But if you do I’m going to tag you back.

  68. 68.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Steeplejack: A lot of residents lost power in cold temperatures. They are going to be mad about this. I mean, I’m sure a lot of them think drag queens are icky, but not enough that they’d want to go without power for a week. I’m pretty sure the sheriff is going to be on the hot seat to do something about this.

  70. 70.

    Geminid

    @Timill: That wasn’t half a Sheriff’s department that shot up those substations. But I think you know that, and are asking this question in bad faith. Unless your are just joking, with someone who is serious.

    Sometimes cynics can’t bear it when others do not reinforce their cynicism but contradict it instead., This thread has shown that.

  71. 71.

    Steeplejack

    [Sheriff Ronnie] Fields said Sunday that state and federal investigators are looking into protesters of a Saturday drag queen show at Sunrise Theater in downtown Southern Pines, but that so far they have not been able to make that connection.

    Earlier in the day Saturday, protesters had gathered outside the theater, upset about a drag show planned for the small venue later that night.

    On her Facebook page, Emily Grace Rainey*, an outspoken opponent of the drag show, posted an invitation to the protest at the theater. After the lights went out, Rainey, who became known in Moore County during the pandemic for her opposition to mask mandates, posted on Facebook that, “The power is out in Moore County and I know why.”

    Later, she posted that the Moore County Sheriff’s Office had come to her house to ask about the outage.

    [. . .]

    Without naming her, Fields indicated in Sunday’s press conference that the information Rainey posted online was “false.” He said officers “had to go and interview this young lady and have a word of prayer with her, but it turned out to be nothing.”

    The drag show started at 7 p.m. and was underway when the power went out.

    From the live stream of Sheriff Fields’s press conference:

    ”We had to go interview this young lady and have a word of prayer with her. But it turned out to be false,” Sheriff Fields responds to reporter re: Emily Rainey’s FB post claiming to know why this happened.

    Reporter asks how it was verified.

    Fields: “Good law enforcement.”

    — [email protected] (@cmclymer) December 4, 2022

    * “Young lady” Emily Grace Rainey, former Army PSYOPS officer, COVID denialist, anti-vaxer and leader of a group that attended the January 6 demonstration in D.C.

  72. 72.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Steeplejack:

    ”We had to go interview this young lady and have a word of prayer with her”

    Sheriff Buford T. Corpone gonna get to the bottom of that, lemme tellya.  Goddamn I’m glad I don’t live in that shithole.

  73. 73.

    way2blue

    @Spanky:

    I’m stumped by ALL the power being out, even traffic lights.  Are there no backup electrical systems in that county?  Hopefully the hospitals have generators.  (At work, we test the back-up generator every Friday at noon—meant to keep the computers running during/following a major earthquake. And everyone’s desktop computer either has an UPS or is plugged into the ‘red’ outlet.)

    Scary to think how fragile our lifelines are in this age of rogue militas.

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    @Chetan Murthy: Yeah, but…

    (Also from the NandO story:)

    Fields stressed that Saturday’s attack was “targeted,” and that “the persons who did this knew exactly what they were doing.”

    Fields said that considering state and federal involvement, and the “millions of dollars” of damage done to Duke Energy property, charges will have “more teeth, more bite,” and will be “extensive.”

    But damage has also been done to the citizens of Moore County and its businesses, which are just starting to recover from COVID losses, Fields said. “This is gonna hurt.”

    Answering a question about whether the attack rises to the level of domestic terrorism, Fields deferred to the judgment of federal officials assisting in the investigation.

    It sounds like he’s being reasonably smart and not saying anything that will prejudice the investigation to me. Could he file terrorism charges even if he wanted to? Isn’t that a federal crime, and doesn’t it make sense for him to stay in his lane?

    We’ll see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    way2blue

    @Geminid:

    Why attack electrical sub-stations in a red county?  Really confusing. Hopefully they were sloppy and communicated on social media.

  76. 76.

    Chetan Murthy

    @way2blue: Same reason you don’t go to the big city to burn down the home of a mixed-race couple (as happened in Ohio during TFG’s reign): you start by making sure the uppity underpeople know their place in territory you control.

  77. 77.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Chetan Murthy: And why burn down a substation in response to a drag show?  It’s a way of telling everyone that you won’t stand for such things, without having to actually commit murder (yet).  Think of it like a cross-burning.  Next time, they’ll do something worse, is the message.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack

    I will note that it would be a totally PSYOP thing to do to claim special knowledge of something you don’t know jack about.

  81. 81.

    evodevo

    @Geminid: I have more confidence that the investigation will proceed in a normal fashion with the Fibbies involved than I would if it was just the sheriff…less chance of him covering up for his 2nd Amendment-loving cousins/friends or those of his deputies.  Our county in KY is not in the mountains, and is the very prosperous home of Toyota, but it didn’t stop the local sheriff of a few years ago from going easy when a local deputy was involved in some stuff..

    On the other hand, it is equally likely that it was some redneck kid who had an exam in HS the next day and wanted an easy out.  Ya never know…

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @evodevo: Don’t forget the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation. I’m not familiar with this outfit and their work, but I know that I wouldn’t want the Virginia State Police hunting me down. And there is also Duke Power, which may not have police powers but is probably the most powerful institution in the state, public or private. They’re not going to take this lying down.

    But as you say, “ya never know,” and for now this true. I happen to think we will know in this case, and before too long. But until then, we’re going to see every single invidious sterotype about white southerners bandied about as if they are the only people prey to bigotry and prejudice. People who laugh at the ridiculous ideas some non-residents have about Portland and New York City will be spinning similar fantasies about Moore County and the state of North Carolina, where evidently the Sheriff is bumbling, drawling idiot and his deputies hang their uniforms up next their klan robes.

    I get it. People are rightfully concerned about home grown fascism and terrorism, and the penetration of law enforcement by these element. But there is an aspect of “othering” here that I think is unwarranted, and is inimical to an objective view of the terrorists acts in Moore County, both on Saturday evening and going forward.

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