Israeli official tells me: It's back to war https://t.co/4EbZT1ZbkQ
— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) December 1, 2023
07:00 in Gaza: Neither side has announces the end of the ceasefire – but neither side is announcing the extension of the ceasefire
— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) December 1, 2023
BREAKING: An hour before the ceasefire expires the IDF intercepted a rocket launched from Gaza
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) December 1, 2023
BREAKING: IDF SAYS HAMAS VIOLATED THE CEASEFIRE IN GAZA AND ISRAEL RESUMED ITS FIRE IN RESPONSE
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) December 1, 2023
Somehow this feels appropriate:
I’m going to bed.
Open thread!
trollhattan
Sigh. Seems we are back to active combat. BBC:
Villago Delenda Est
Hamas and Bibi deserve each other. The Israeli and Palestinian people do not.
Viva BrisVegas
Modern war is between nation states. This should be a police action against Hamas terrorists. Instead we have a pogrom directed, even if it were supposedly incidental, at Palestinian civilians.
The war moniker is a figleaf to excuse the so-called collateral damage.
West of the Rockies
I haven’t seen word 1 on BJ about the Newsome v. DeSantis debate. Anyone know how it went? Was there a perceived victor?
Origuy
@West of the Rockies: I was wondering about that. The buzz on Xitter is that Newsom wiped the floor with RonD.
Urza
@West of the Rockies: internet agrees Newsom trounced both of his opponents
West of the Rockies
Glad to hear it about Newsome! I got home in time only to see about one minute of the Fox News post-debate poo-flinging monkey panel. A former Trump spokesdemon (Kaleigh McAninny) was blathering orgasmically about how DeSantis was so manly and brilliant.
JWR
@trollhattan:
FTFY.
~sigh~ And the bloodletting resumes. :(
JWR
@Origuy:
Hmm, maybe that’s why local SoCal TV news found only the briefest of “balanced” sounding sound bites in their coverage of the “debate”, relying on culture war nonsense to even it all out. That said, I can easily see Newsom making RonD cry and cry. Cry more, Ron!
Odie Hugh Manatee
Does Israel stop once the rubble is the size of pea gravel or are they going for the consistency of fine talcum powder?
I support Israel. I do not support Israel doing this. This is just sick at this point.
Chetan Murthy
@Odie Hugh Manatee: BIbi and Likud were already hemorrhaging support worldwide (and in the West) before all this. And they’re just making it worse. I want Israel to exist as a Jewish state, and what they’re doing is jeopardizing that. Storing up troubles in heaven, gonna get Israel washed into the sea. Ugh. Just ugh.
As improbable as it seems, I really do hope that Biden can somehow force Israel to give back the Occupied Territories *including the settlements*. Sigh. It’s the only way to ensure that Israel can make peace with its neighbors.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Chetan Murthy:
I remember Carter, the Camp David Peace Accords and the settlers resistance to them and being removed from the Sinai peninsula. I hope we can do the same and get them out of the lands that they have once again taken from their rightful people.
As usual, it’s the hard core nutjobs who are making everyone else suffer while they brawl and slaughter.
JWR
Deleted. Moved to the Open Thread up top.
YY_Sima Qian
Here is an investigative report by 972Mag, a left wing independent media outlet in Israel. Perhaps Geminid can speak to its overall credibility. If the report is remotely accurate, then the IDF & Israeli intelligence has a pretty good idea just how many civilian “collateral damage” are likely to be casualties w/ most strikes, & go ahead any way just to take out as few as one Hamas target (& a low to medium level operative at that). It also confirms that collective punishment is formal Israeli policy, dialed to 11 in the prosecution of the current war in Gaza.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: I am not familiar with this news site, but my knowledge in this area is not so deep. I mainly follow Israeli news through Haaretz, Times of Israel and the Jerusalem Post. Also Barak Ravid, Noga Tarnopolska(sp?) and Einat Wilf.
But as a general observation, the Israeli news sites covering security matters cannot get away with much distortion without being caught out and discredited, so I expect the +972 report is well-founded. And the facts of Israel’s assault on Gaza show that vengeance is a motivation.
Geminid
A Saudi news site reported that Israel struck a Houthi weapons depot near Sanaa, Yemen. The Houthis say it was just some old ordinance exploding and setting trees on fire.
This incident was likely unrelated to the renewal of Israel’s Gaza offensive. The Houthis have been lobbing missiles and sending drones at the southern Israeli port of Eilat for some weeks now, and it was just a matter of time before Israel struck back.
lee
Daily Beast reports Israel knew the details of the Oct 7 attack and even weakened security in critical areas
@Chetan Murthy:
It is amazing how quickly support has dropped. I honestly cannot remember this happening with Israel ever before. I think part of it is that the Israeli PR during this has been so completely awful. There was a video of a Israeli talking head defending the shooting of a kid because the Palestinians were told not to celebrate and he was celebrating.
In the US any sort of support for the Palestinians was always ‘fringe’ (I’m not sure what the correct word to use is). I’m not sure the US will ever reach the level of support the Irish have for the Palestinians but it has certainly increased.
Kosh III
Off topic but think folks will find it interesting
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-says-haslams-192514140.html
Once again the Haslam family is committing crimes. Bill was a bad governor–hardly a surprise.
TooTallTom
I still think that Bibi wanted this invasion, so that he could improve his popularity as a wartime leader. From CNN reporting last night, the Israeli government knew it was coming, Remember, he is under indictment, and only his position as PM is preventing the court cases against him from proceeding. (Does this scenario kinda sound like the orange fartcloud?)
He moved troops away from the border with Gaza just before the attack, creating a bigger opportunity for Hamas. I think he really wanted the popularity bump that W got after 9/11, and saw this as a way to ensure he got his war in Gaza. Convince me I’m wrong.
StringOnAStick
@TooTallTom: I think Bibi expected to get an event like the not too damaging World Trade Centre truck bombing, but ended getting a full 9-11. His desperation to stay in power and out of jail has tipped the world into hatred of Israel, just like Hamas and Bin Laden before him knew it would, by causing a huge overreaction that the rest of the world would recoil from. It worked on us with the Iraq war, and now on Israel. In both cases it took right wing leaders to take the bait.
Bill Arnold
@YY_Sima Qian:
That 972Mag piece is a must-read, IMO. (mediabiasfactcheck report)
And many of the links in it are worth following.
Here’s a formal link, just to include the byline, in case the author searches for themself.
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza – Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals. (Yuval Abraham, November 30, 2023)
Geminid
@TooTallTom: Netanyahu was indicted on 3 counts of corruption in 2019 while he was Prime Minister, and then the trial commenced in April of 2021 while he was Prime Minister. The trial crawled along through the 18 months from June 2021 to December 2022 while Naftali Bennet and then Yair Lapid were Prime Minister, and resumed tbis Spring while Netanyahu was Prime Minister. It’s true that Netanyahu is trying to “fix” his case by subverting the judiciary, but unless and until he does his status as Prime Minister does not protect him or prevent the trial from proceeding.
I know I’m not going to convince you, nut I’ll say it anyway: Israeli leaders believed that the IDF’s air power deterred Hamas from a full scale offensive. If they had asked themselves,”What if Hamas chooses not to be deterred?” they would have been prepared for a surprise attack. And it was a surprise.
I have followed anti-Netanyahu Israelis like Einat Wilf and others, and I have yet to find one who believes that Netanyahu knew this attack was coming. Should have known? Yes. Was responsible for this disaster? Yes. But they do not believe as you do, and they know Netanyahu much better than you and despise him even more.