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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War for Ukraine Day 578: A Yom Kippur Message from the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine

War for Ukraine Day 578: A Yom Kippur Message from the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine

by Adam L Silverman|  September 24, 20237:51 pm| 37 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, Military, Open Threads, Russia, Silverman on Security, War, War in Ukraine

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(Image by NEIVANMADE)

Quick housekeeping notes: 1) I’ll deal with the Canadian kerfuffle tomorrow night. 2) If you are posting copy and paste from news reporting in the comments, please include a link. 3) For those observing Yom Kippur this evening have an easy fast. 4) For those wondering why some evangelical minister/prophet announced the Rapture was going to happen between Rosh HaShana and Yom Kipper, the reason is that the initial prophecy of the Rapture was made by Reverend Miller in the Burned Over district of upstate New York in the 1830s. Miller, who led the Millerite sect of made in America (early evangelicalism) had determined through a careful counting of generations in the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) that the Rapture would occur on Yom Kippur in, if I’m recalling correctly, 1834. It didn’t happen, he made a correction and it was supposed to happen the following year. It didn’t happen again, he shifted gears, and declared it was a spiritual not physical Rapture and the physical Rapture was yet to come. Those of his congregation and followers – then known as the Millerites – who stuck with him eventually evolved into the Seventh Day Adventists. So the Rapture happening around Yom Kippur was woven into made in America evangelical Protestantism at its start.

On the eve of Yom Kippur, when the Almighty decides the fate of the whole world and each person individually, I sang a famous song. Her words encourage you to think about your path in life, repent of your mistakes and, if necessary, start the New Year with a clean slate. Shabat… pic.twitter.com/BzGTiHkZn4

— Chief Rabbi Of Ukraine Moshe Azman (@RabbiUkraine) September 22, 2023

On the eve of Yom Kippur, when the Almighty decides the fate of the whole world and each person individually, I sang a famous song. Her words encourage you to think about your path in life, repent of your mistakes and, if necessary, start the New Year with a clean slate. Shabat shalom!

https://t.co/6uQBT7eZbe
On the eve of Yom Kippur, the most important day for all Jewish people, we present to your attention one of the most beautiful Yom Kippur prayers. We performed it with my son Shneor.
Let the words of this prayer penetrate our hearts and we will all be…

— Chief Rabbi Of Ukraine Moshe Azman (@RabbiUkraine) September 24, 2023

youtu.be/iL-bFBfC7Pw
On the eve of Yom Kippur, the most important day for all Jewish people, we present to your attention one of the most beautiful Yom Kippur prayers. We performed it with my son Shneor.
Let the words of this prayer penetrate our hearts and we will all be rewarded with rich and sweet year, and we will be written in the Book of life!!!

Here is President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump.

It was a very productive week, we have a lot of good defense and other decisions – address by the President of Ukraine

24 September 2023 – 21:07

I wish you health, fellow Ukrainians!

It was a productive week. Very productive. We have many good defense and other decisions.

Defense packages. From the United States – including artillery, necessary shells, HIMARS munitions, air defense missiles, additional air defense systems, tactical vehicles. And some other types of weapons that will prove themselves on the battlefield. From Canada, we have a decision on long-term defense support worth half a billion U.S. dollars. In particular, these are medevac vehicles, which are very much needed at the front. We have agreed on their production and supply.

There is a historic decision by the United States to jointly produce weapons and defense systems. In particular, air defense. This is something that was an absolute fantasy until recently. But it will become a reality. We will make it a reality. Everyone who works for the state. And this is the new quality of Ukraine’s defense industry – much more powerful. And this is also the economy. Protection for our cities. Enterprises, new jobs for both our peoples – for Ukrainians and Americans. We have a clear perspective of a new resilience of Ukraine that will prevent the recurrence of Russian aggression – this is what we have already agreed on. I am grateful to President Biden, his entire team, and everyone in America who values freedom and supports Ukraine.

I held very important meetings in Washington, in Congress – both parties, both houses. There were a lot of questions, a lot of dialog. Equally sincere answers, absolute frankness and sincere understanding. And we specifically requested a format of meetings and communication in Congress that would allow for the most detailed conversation. This resulted in more trust, and I heard that support for Ukraine will persist.

In general, many morally robust and important positions were voiced at different levels in the United States – from the top level to all those involved in negotiations with the Ukrainian delegation. The same is true for Canada. There is a clear unity. There are new sanctions against Russia, and there will be even more sanctions pressure.

We have reached economic agreements with both governments and businesses. There is a decision on a free trade area with Canada. A memorandum on energy cooperation was signed in Washington. An agreement was reached in Ottawa to rebuild Kakhovka HPP and reconstruct Kaniv HPP. There is an obvious interest of large companies in the U.S. and Canada to work in Ukraine.

At the level of the Ministry of Strategic Industries, there is mutual understanding with defense companies. And there is a very important mutual understanding at the level of societies – at the level of ordinary people who really care about Ukraine and really wish us victory and all Ukrainians protection from Russian terror. When ordinary people in America say they pray for Ukraine, it is truly touching and makes our relations stronger.

Separately, I would like to thank the Government of Canada for its readiness to allocate funding for the Holodomor Genocide Museum, for the completion of this museum. It is symbolic that Canada will be the one to support Ukraine in preserving its historical memory. Thank you, Canada!

We have agreements of the First Lady of Ukraine regarding support for the rehabilitation of veterans, there is a corresponding Ukrainian-Canadian medical partnership. Olena is expanding access of Ukrainian culture to the world’s leading museums, and now there is an agreement with the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. Olena also had important meetings and speeches on the sidelines of the UN, in particular, regarding the protection of Ukrainian children during the war.

This year, Ukraine presented to the UN a vision of reforming the key UN institution – the Security Council. The Security Council is currently not able at all to stop aggression and actually restore peace because of the obsolete veto system, when there is no restriction on the aggressor’s abuse of the veto. This needs to be changed, and in general, all nations that respect other nations and peace should be given more rights and opportunities in the UN. I am sure the world supports this Ukrainian position.

And of course, this week was also fruitful in terms of bilateral meetings with the leaders of other countries. Thank you all for your support! And for your willingness to work with Ukraine. Yes, this is a different scope of cooperation. Different areas. But this is a clear recognition that Ukraine has a future. Its own future. Powerful and free.

And our warriors. I am extremely grateful. I am proud of you! This week, there are grounds to praise the brigades fighting both in the east and in the south. 5th separate assault brigade and 80th separate airborne assault brigade. Thank you for your fortitude in the battles near Klishchiivka! 93rd separate mechanized brigade. Guys, thank you! 15th operational brigade of the National Guard and 71st separate hunting brigade – thank you for the true Ukrainian power in the battles near Verbove… 116th separate mechanized brigade – well done, guys!

Thank you to everyone who is fighting for Ukraine, who is on combat posts, in combat missions! Thank you to everyone who helps! Every week brings Ukraine more strength and opportunities. Hence, every week brings our victory closer.

Glory to Ukraine!

The cost:

Maryna is Ukraine's first child to be fitted with a pediatric prosthesis.
In May 2022, a Russian missile struck the house in which she lived with her parents in the Kherson region. The child's leg was amputated above the knee at a hospital in Kryvyi Rih.
Today, 6-year-old Marina… pic.twitter.com/IoZ2zKsBim

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 24, 2023

Maryna is Ukraine’s first child to be fitted with a pediatric prosthesis.
In May 2022, a Russian missile struck the house in which she lived with her parents in the Kherson region. The child’s leg was amputated above the knee at a hospital in Kryvyi Rih.
Today, 6-year-old Marina is already learning how to ride a bicycle.

🎥: The Kyiv Institute of Rehabilitation

Tokmak:

A GMLRS missile launched from a HIMARS struck a russian observation post between the villages of Ilchenkove and Solodka Balka in the Tokmak direction. pic.twitter.com/xUxt3aEjOH

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 24, 2023

Obligatory:

Kherson:

KHERSON AXIS /0130 UTC 22 SEP/ Ukrainian FPV drone destroyed a Russian high speed patrol boat on the Konka River. UKR precision strike munition targeted a Russian HQ element concealed at Oleshky fire dept building. pic.twitter.com/GJlqHOv5yr

— Chuck Pfarrer | Indications & Warnings | (@ChuckPfarrer) September 24, 2023

Podil:

War is intertwined with civilian life everywhere in Ukraine. Zaporizhzhia Avenger mural in Podil depicts Roman Holomba, the hero of Ukraine who took down 7 Russian planes and a missile with Igla MANPADS. pic.twitter.com/3wh0BF1zyn

— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) September 24, 2023

Russian occupied Sevastopol:

To counter Ukrainian naval drones, Russia has placed layers of barriers, nets, and barges at the entrance to Sevastopol harbor in Crimea. pic.twitter.com/tB1mb5wxlM

— Brady Africk (@bradyafr) September 24, 2023

Russia’s Rybar channel, connected to the military, says two Ukrainian Neptune missiles today hit Sevastopol piers where warships “slated to be written off” were moored. Degree of damage unclear. pic.twitter.com/XnYbJ0z9i7

— Yaroslav Trofimov (@yarotrof) September 23, 2023

Khalino air base, Kursk Oblast, Russia:

Today there were reports about drone attack on Kursk. Specifically on the FSB building and at the oil refinery near the Khalino airfield. A comment from a Russian source associated with Russian military aviation appeared, which looks to be connected to those events :
“Something… pic.twitter.com/RGhH7RlkEp

— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 24, 2023

Khalino is the home of the Russian air force’s 14th Regiment, which is equipped with Su-30SM multi-role jet fighters. Pictures below are from Google maps. https://t.co/g4ylpxpFuw pic.twitter.com/vtpC4sq2Y8

— Yaroslav Trofimov (@yarotrof) September 24, 2023

 

Somewhere in Ukraine:

The best delivery service ever.
FPV drones of the joint tactical group "Adam" deliver gifts to the occupiers directly to their dugouts. pic.twitter.com/tolEAP3kGK

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 24, 2023

That’s me, I’m  a giver.

What?

For you training enthusiasts:

"It took us about two hours to more or less learn the Black Hawk. Then we got into it and immediately flew.

When I showed what I could do with it, the American instructors were shocked," said the first pilot of the UH-60A Black Hawk, call sign "Maestro".… pic.twitter.com/kaCXicwstt

— Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 In Ukraine | News, Updates (@Heroiam_Slava) September 22, 2023

Tymofiy Mylovanov brings us new details regarding the Ukrainian-Polish grain dispute.

There are signs of de-escalation between Poland and Ukraine on the grain issue. Polish president Duda shifts the narratives: there are special grain corridors for transit of the Ukrainian grain, the EU commission was wrong not to extend their decision 1/ pic.twitter.com/JWDC9s2QzG

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 24, 2023

While maintaining the ban on Ukrainian grain in Poland to protect the farmers and also talking about other benefits for them, Duda advocates for increased transit of Ukrainian grain to countries in Africa and Asia that require food security. 3/

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 24, 2023

The president of Poland has to balance domestic agricultural interests ahead of the election with geopolitical pragmatism and support of Ukraine 5/

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 24, 2023

Ukraine was insulted by the ban, the fact that Poland defied the EU decision not to extend the ban, and by the rhetoric about “Ukraine being a drawling man” and “Poland doesn’t supply weapons to Ukraine anymore”

Good that this all is coming to an end. 7X

— Tymofiy Mylovanov (@Mylovanov) September 24, 2023

Several days ago Russian state controlled TV announced the premier of Tucker Carlson’s TV show on their network.

It looks increasingly like Tucker Carlson is going to have his own dubbed show on Russian state TV's rolling news channel

The same trailer as two weeks ago is now being shown on Rossiya 24 with the added caption of "at the weekend" (my own screengrab) https://t.co/ozJPqHyraD pic.twitter.com/wapqAxnp7k

— Francis Scarr (@francis_scarr) September 22, 2023

When asked for comment, Carlson said that this was not true.

We now have some clarification of what is going on.

Russian state TV is going ahead with its apparently pirated Tucker Carlson show despite him saying they are doing it “without my knowledge or approval.” Tucker tells me it’s “kind of funny actually.” https://t.co/1j7IYDOfpR

— max seddon (@maxseddon) September 24, 2023

It does, however, tell us something important about what Russia thinks of the misinformation, disinformation, and agitprop that Carlson is still injecting into the American information environment and how they think that benefits Russian strategic objectives.

That’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron!

A new video from Patron’s official TikTok:

@patron__dsns

Який я вам більше до душі?😊

♬ original sound – TheBoredBitch

Here’s the machine translation of the caption:

Which one do you prefer? 😊

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

37Comments

  1. 1.

    Anonymous At Work

    September 24, 2023 at 8:05 pm

    Adam,

    ATACMS artillery to Ukraine is announced.  Another “We’ve come closer to deciding whether we can decide” or an actual excuse for the “Extended Remixed” version of the earlier song about HIMARS?

  2. 2.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 8:07 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: Yep.

  3. 3.

    Prescott Cactus

    September 24, 2023 at 8:07 pm

    Nice to hear the temperature is getting lowered with Poland.

    Thanks for everything Adam !

  4. 4.

    Alison Rose

    September 24, 2023 at 8:13 pm

    Thank you for sharing the video from the Rabbi, it was really lovely to listen to.

    Gee, Tucker, “kind of funny” wouldn’t be MY reaction to this mishegas, but you do you, bro. Hardy har.

    There is apparently also a kitty named Patron! And like all cats in Ukraine, he looks ready to throw down.

    Thank you as always, Adam. G’mar Chatima Tova 💙

  5. 5.

    way2blue

    September 24, 2023 at 8:18 pm

    i don’t understand why evangelicals are fixated on the rapture.  Are they simply in a hurry to get to heaven?  And at the same time to see their naysayers suffer in hell?

  6. 6.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 24, 2023 at 8:27 pm

    Tzom kal to all the Jewish Jackals.

  7. 7.

    Jay

    September 24, 2023 at 8:28 pm

    ChrisO_wiki
    @ChrisO_wiki
    14h
    1/ Ukrainian and Russian sources have confirmed that Wagner fighters have returned to fighting in Ukraine, although in small numbers and apparently in disjointed groups. This may reflect individual former Wagnerites or small units joining the Russian MOD’s forces. ⬇️

    https://nitter.net/ChrisO_wiki/status/1705877453787243000#m

  8. 8.

    Ella in New Mexico

    September 24, 2023 at 8:31 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: I was gonna ask what the status of ATACMS was too!

    So confused and frustrated about this situation. We made them to protect democracy. Just send the damn things.

  9. 9.

    Andrya

    September 24, 2023 at 8:59 pm

    Thanks for doing this, Adam, and wishing you the best Yom Kippur.

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 9:09 pm

    @way2blue: Evangelicalism as it exists in the US was a creation of the revivalist fervor in upstate NY and parts of New England during the 1830s. There were so many fire and brimstone revivals that upstate NY was nick named the Burned Over district. Dozens of sects, probably dozens of dozens, developed and most fizzled out. The concept of the Rapture comes out of that milieu. As does the modern concept of millennial dispensationalism. The preachers and their followers in these movements at this time were convinced the 2nd coming was imminent, which is what gave rise to the millennialism and apocalypticism that was at the heart of what was going on. The entire era gave birth to what we now think of as evangelicalism in the US, which is a made in America form of Protestantism. It also gave birth to an enduring controversy among American evangelicalism: is the millennial dispensation pre or post. As in does Jesus make his 2nd coming, we then get the 1,000 year reign of peace, followed by the apocalypse or is it the other way around: apocalypse, 2nd coming, and then 1,000 year reign. The post-millennial dispensationalists developed the Rapture as a theological solution to their fear that they would and could be trapped and killed during the apocalypse and, despite being among the saved, tortured by demons and confined to Hell. The Rapture solves this problem. The saved, the truly saved, will be bodily assumed into Heaven, like Elijah was, prior to the apocalypse. Part of their reward for their faith is to be removed from all the trials, tribulations, and suffering that will be part of the apocalypse. Eventually the idea of the Rapture moves from the Millerites into most if not all of the other evangelical sects and denomination regardless if they are pre or post millennial dispensationalists. Which is why even though evangelicals, charismatics, and fundamentalists don’t necessarily agree on much, almost all of them believe in the Rapture. The evangelicals and the fundamentalists do agree that the charismatics are heretics and are all going to Hell. So there is some additional common ground there.

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 9:12 pm

    @Andrya: You’re most welcome. Thanks. You have a lovely Sunday night and Monday. Eat a nice breakfast for me!

  12. 12.

    grumbles

    September 24, 2023 at 9:18 pm

    That special-delivery drone is terrifying.

    About 15 years ago, some friends of mine and I made some (super primitive, by today’s standards) drones, and used to fly them in a park in Brooklyn. They were just styrofoam, a battery, an engine, some electronics and a radio. We talked about this – not like it isn’t an obvious thing to do once rc arial drones are capable enough, but it is still terrifying.

    I wonder how big the civilian drone-defense market is going to get.

  13. 13.

    Lyrebird

    September 24, 2023 at 9:22 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Wishing you an easy fast Adam, however you might approach it.

    And thanks @Omnes Omnibus:!

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 9:36 pm

    @Lyrebird: Thanks. I’m basically approaching it by not eating anything until sundown tomorrow night. I do have to have a little water because of some of the medication I take.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 9:37 pm

    @grumbles: Huge. It is going to get huge.

  16. 16.

    Geminid

    September 24, 2023 at 9:46 pm

    More drones over Moscow. From Poland-based news site Visegrad 24, earlier this evening:

       All airports in Moscow were forced to shut down operations tonight due to Ukrainian drones attacking targets in the Moscow Region.

  17. 17.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 9:51 pm

    @Geminid: From the housekeeping note at the top of the post:

    2) If you are posting copy and paste from news reporting in the comments, please include a link.

  18. 18.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 24, 2023 at 9:55 pm

    In Mali, the Tuareg tribes have declared war on the “Wagner” PMC and are starting a safari against them reportedly

    The Wagnerites more than once showed their cruelty towards the local population: they used excessive violence, killed, cut off their heads.

    Cc @osint_69 pic.twitter.com/Oia8y9oAOx
    — PStyleOne1 (@PStyle0ne1) September 24, 2023

    This sounds like it will not be fun for the musicians.

  19. 19.

    Tom Levenson

    September 24, 2023 at 10:07 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: That will not end well for the Wagnerites.

  20. 20.

    Anoniminous

    September 24, 2023 at 10:15 pm

    If the US isn’t going to supply Medium Altitude* Long Endurance (MALE) drones Ukraine needs to start looking at getting a production license of the Wing Loong III from the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group.  The drone is reportedly going to have 9 attachments for air-to-air as well as air-to-ground ordinance.  It can reportedly carry 2.5 tons of up to sixteen missiles and bombs, has a range of 10,000km (6,600 miles,) and a loiter time of 40 hours.  I’m going to guess the total package cost, including ground stations, would be around $5 million per airframe.  A country can buy 22 Wing Loong IIIs – one fighter squadron – for the cost of one old-tech F-35 at ~$110 million per airframe.  Buy an air fleet of 396 IIIs for the cost of one 18 plane F-35 squadron.  This is when the Airheads jump in sputtering, “but an F-35 is a more capable aircraft than the WL – III!”  Say it is.  So what?  Is it better than 22 Wing Loong IIIs?  Nope.

    And I’ll note at that price you can afford to waste 100 of the things to take out the AWACs and in-air refuel tankers at which point NATO air doctrine pretty much goes down the shitter.

    * 10,000 – 30,000 feet

  21. 21.

    Geminid

    September 24, 2023 at 10:15 pm

     

     

    @Adam L Silverman: Sorry. Your instructions were clear. I read the post but  not attentively.

  22. 22.

    BeautifulPlumage

    September 24, 2023 at 10:16 pm

    Nitter link: I’d like to see this get more views..

    From Defense of Ukraine Twitter.

  23. 23.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 10:20 pm

    @Geminid: No worries.

  24. 24.

    sdhays

    September 24, 2023 at 10:21 pm

    @Alison Rose: Even a standard bog-level conservative “content creator” would normally be pissed off at a national network in some other country stealing their content for profit. They wouldn’t find it “funny” at all.

    If he’s not lying, and I don’t assume that, maybe he figures this is a form of advertisement/signal boosting that will get him more views on his regular monetized channels (Xitter, right?).

  25. 25.

    AlaskaReader

    September 24, 2023 at 10:34 pm

    Thanks Adam and best to you today and every day.

  26. 26.

    Carlo Graziani

    September 24, 2023 at 10:36 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: The musical The Book of Mormon opens with an announcer intoning the words “A long, long time ago, in Ancient Upstate New York…”

  27. 27.

    Another Scott

    September 24, 2023 at 10:43 pm

    @Anoniminous: KyivIndependent.com (from July):

    The Turkish company Baykar has already started constructing a factory in Ukraine to produce Bayraktar drones, Minister for Strategic Industries Oleksandr Kamyshin said on July 10, as cited by Hromadske news outlet.

    “This is the same large plant for Bayraktars, which was negotiated several years ago… We have moved on to real steps,” Kamyshin said on national television.

    Baykar received licenses to manufacture combat drones in Ukraine on June 22. According to the company’s CEO, Haluk Bayraktar, the production of drones is set to begin in 2025, and the total investment into the project would amount to around $95 million.

    Kyiv and Ankara signed the deal on opening a Baykar factory in Ukraine last February, before Russia’s full-scale invasion. Ukraine’s parliament ratified the agreement on Dec. 13, 2022.

    According to Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov, the drones produced at the plant will be equipped with Ukrainian-made engines, and the facility will also include a training center for Ukrainian pilots.

    […]

    Presumably there are other things in the works to get more drones to them before this plant comes online.

    (I feel old and out-of-it calling these things “drones”. They were called RC (Radio Controlled) airplanes when I was young (it was one of my dad’s many hobbies in the ’60s). They’re much, much more capable now, and having fancy gyroscopes and efficient batteries and electric motors (rather than 2-stroke Cox 049 engines)…) ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 24, 2023 at 10:46 pm

    @Carlo Graziani: Funny, but both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were born in Vermont.

  29. 29.

    catfishncod

    September 24, 2023 at 10:51 pm

    @Adam L Silverman, @way2blue: Since the Rapture concept was a patch on already shaky dogma, the consequences of a belief in a “Get Out of Earth Free” cars were not really considered.

    This belief seems to be the source of the particularly American conceit of theologically sanctioned negative environmental stewardship — the idea that not only is there no spiritual or religious duty to care for the Earth, its well-being, and its creatures… but that actively using up the Earth’s resources and destroying the natural world for human benefit is divinely authorized and encouraged. After all, if you’re a true believer, you don’t have to face the consequences of your actions; you’ll get on an express elevator to eternal bliss, freed of further responsibility by virtue of choosing the One True Sect, and it’s everyone else who has to live with the horrible world you’ve left them. But then, they had a chance to get Raptured and didn’t, so they deserve whatever’s coming to them, right?

    Despite a lifetime of exposure, I still cannot fathom the level of collective self-indulgence and self-righteousness required to square this narrative — which stops just short of “Let’s create Hell on Earth and then skip out on the torture part” — with the Nazarene described in the Gospels, or even the more severe slant in the letters of the ex-zealot of Tarsus.

    It’s as if one of Noah’s neighbors, hearing his warnings, set out to sell as much low-lying land as possible and get as many people living behind piteously small levees while planning to take the gold on their own Ark. (No, I’m not over Hurricane Katrina yet; why do you ask?)

  30. 30.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 10:52 pm

    @Carlo Graziani: That too!

    My masters’ thesis in religion focused on millennial religious movements. I picked six. Two Christian, two Hindu, two Buddhist. Each pair had one non-violent and one violent extremist sect so I could compare and contrast internally within each religion and externally across these different religions. The two Christian sects were the Millerites and the Branch Davidians. The Alpha and Omega if you will.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 10:55 pm

    @catfishncod: Yep. Made in America Protestantism has taken some unique, for lack of a less inflammatory term, twists and turns in its development. Specifically in regard to what you’re referring to, it is, perhaps, the most extreme solution to the long standing Christian doctrinal problem of Christians being in the world, but not of the world because they have been saved.

  32. 32.

    NutmegAgain

    September 24, 2023 at 11:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Hey Adam–thanks for all the work!  Now I’m going to be a brat and push back a bit on the roots of evangelicalism here. I would argue that the first Great Awakening, with the hellfire & damnation preaching of George Whitfield (of the crossed eyes), and of course Jonathan Edwards (1703 – 1758), lately of Northampton MA. Famous for his sermon, “Sinners in the hands of an Angry God”. He apparently had such a thundering delivery from the pulpit, together with the message he brought, that folk fainted and rolled in the aisles. In Calvinist Massachusetts, no less. There were some mighty big splits in congregations over “New Light” vs. Orthodox, i.e., the same-old Calvinism your parents heard–those churches were called the “Standing Order” All this culminated in using the best word–disestablishmentarianism–part of what happened in the big split known as the Dedham Decision. (Remember, Orthodox Congregational churches were also the main political entity, with towns supporting the churches with tax revenue, and hassles over voting rights and more stuff.)  I will stop there as eyeballs glaze over. But I am a lifetime Unitarian, and this is my church heritage (I also was church historia for a long time…). We still form committees in order to argue!

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 24, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    @NutmegAgain: You’re not wrong. There is a direct line between Edwards and the Great Awakening of the 1830s and the events in the Burned Over district.

  34. 34.

    Andrya

    September 25, 2023 at 1:15 am

    @catfishncod:  As a Catholic Christian, I share your incredulity at the idea “the rapture is coming, trash the environment”.  For those who believe in the Jewish/Muslim/Baha’i/Christian God, the natural world is God’s masterpiece.

    If I thought that Leonardo da Vinci was going to judge me for the moral value of my life when I die, I would not prepare for that event by defacing the Mona Lisa.  Leonardo would probably be annoyed!

    Plus, the desire to deface nature is generally associated with desire for money, and Jesus was pretty strict about not lusting after money and providing for low income people.

    Edited to correct typo.

  35. 35.

    YY_Sima Qian

    September 25, 2023 at 2:20 am

    @Anoniminous: Well, out of deference to Russian sensibilities, China is not going to export the Wing Loong or the Rainbow series of MALE attack drones to Ukraine. Furthermore, unless Ukraine is able to completely suppress the Russian air defense in an area (not just the S-300/S-400 long range SAMs, but also the Buk medium range SAMs & Tor short range SAMs), MALE drones are sitting ducks for SAMs, & Russian righters. That is why we have not see videos of Bayraktar-2s blowing up Russian armored vehicles since the 1st few months of the invasion.

  36. 36.

    Carlo Graziani

    September 25, 2023 at 2:24 am

    ISW’s Russian Campaign Assesment for September 24 offers a very detailed analysis of the situation in the Orkhiv salient. Whatever one thinks of ISW, it is a well-sourced piece and well-worth the read. It reinforces the view that a crisis may be at hand for the Russian defenses there.

    Among the takeaways:

    (1) The UA is actually operating with armored vehicles, which implies that the static infantry struggle to break through prepared defensive positions is really behind them, and they’ve cleared paths through the minefields that appeared to be so daunting just weeks ago.

    (2) The Russian insistence on counterattacking ahead of their defenses, instead of falling back to them to “trade space for attrition” has paradoxically allowed the UA to heavily attrit the Russians while carrying out their own offensive ops. This is astonishing, because it means that the Russians have given up the classic advantage of defense over offense which was the entire point of those prepared defenses, and to no discernible good purpose.

    (3) Several regimental-level units including elite airborne VDV forces have been severely damaged in an effort to compress and envelop the salient from West and East at the latitude of Verbove. A VDV regiment may currently be in danger of getting cut off NE of Verbove.

    (4) Putin may in fact have issued Hitler-style “stand fast” orders to Shoigu to support his early June framing of the then-beginning UA counteroffensive as doomed, and of the Russian army as engaged in successful battles preparatory to retaking the initiative. This may explain the otherwise senseless way in which the Russians have pissed away their defensive opportunities.

    And, as an aside, no new Russian attacks reported near Orkhiv, at the salient base. Possible indication that such attacks are being recognized as unaffordable due to an impending crisis—my own leading indicator of a crisis in the salient, as I’ve mentioned in the past week or so.

  37. 37.

    Maxim

    September 25, 2023 at 10:30 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks as always, Adam, and I hope you and everyone else observing Yom Kippur are having an easy fast.

     

    The evangelicals and the fundamentalists do agree that the charismatics are heretics and are all going to Hell.

    Nitpick: a few lifetimes ago I associated with a number of folks of the fundagelical persuasion, and did not encounter this view. They were more likely to think mainstream Protestants were not really saved than charismatics. This was based largely on the centrality in their theology of having a distinct salvation experience — a specific moment in time when a person makes a conscious choice to accept Jesus into their heart. That was the essential litmus test in their minds, and charismatics were more likely to be able to point to such an experience than mainline Protestants.

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