(Image by NEIVANMADE)
Russia opened up on civilian targets again in Odesa overnight.
Two Odesa residents were killed as the result of another russian terrorist attack.
Overnight, russia launched 19 Shaheds, 12 Kalibr cruise missiles, and two Oniks supersonic missiles against Odesa. All 19 UAVs and 11 Kalibrs were shot down.
The port infrastructure – the marine… pic.twitter.com/gtNIhuHrfB— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 25, 2023
Two Odesa residents were killed as the result of another russian terrorist attack.
Overnight, russia launched 19 Shaheds, 12 Kalibr cruise missiles, and two Oniks supersonic missiles against Odesa. All 19 UAVs and 11 Kalibrs were shot down.
The port infrastructure – the marine station and the hotel – has been damaged.
russian missiles struck a hotel in Odesa last night.
A pathetic attempt at retaliation for our successful hit on the russian Navy HQ in Sevastopol.📷 Andrey Stavnitser pic.twitter.com/I9nlq0HYHD
— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 25, 2023
Odesa hotel in the harbor before and after tonight's Russian attack pic.twitter.com/Bc0VYksnrG
— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) September 25, 2023
They hit Kherson by daylight:
Today, russian terrorists launched several guided air bomb attacks on Beryslav in the Kherson region. A home and two utility companies were destroyed. Three people were killed, and three were injured. pic.twitter.com/lzoh5VwP0i
— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) September 25, 2023
Here is President Zelesnkyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump.
The best thing for us is to be capable of producing advanced weapons to guarantee Ukraine’s security, and we will do so – address by the President
25 September 2023 – 21:42
I wish you health, fellow Ukrainians!
Today Defense Minister Umerov delivered an important report: the first American-made Abrams tanks are already in Ukraine. We are preparing them to reinforce our actions against the occupiers. And it will be a significant reinforcement.
We are also working to get all the other weapons capabilities we need. This includes F16s – we are preparing pilots and infrastructure. This also includes long-range weapons – we are doing our utmost to enable Ukraine to do more to liberate its territory. The same goes for air defense. To cover the entire territory of our country, we need more systems than we currently have.
The best thing for us is to be able to produce air defense and other advanced weapons. This is the only way. To guarantee Ukraine’s security. And we will produce, we will build all the necessary production facilities step by step.
And, by the way, we see a very clear interest of the world in working with us to build a new defense force not only for Ukraine, but also for our partners. For our world as a whole – a rules-based world that will not tolerate the aggression and terror that Russia is trying to make the norm.
Today, Minister for Strategic Industries Kamyshin reported on the preparation of the first Defense Industries Forum: there are already more than 160 companies that will participate. 26 countries. Different parts of the world: America, Asia, Europe, Australia. Manufacturers of a full range of weapons. We will bend every effort to unite the world to create a new and powerful arsenal for Ukraine and all defenders of international law.
Today, I also held meetings on the results of my visit to the United States and Canada, as well as meetings with the leaders of partner countries on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. All the agreements we have reached, all the prospects for Ukraine – everything must be implemented as soon as possible. For each of the areas, we are appointing a specific official who will be responsible for the implementation of the agreements. Defense, political cooperation, strengthening and purging of institutions, energy sector, recovery.
I would like to pay special attention to Penny Pritzker, the newly appointed U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine’s Recovery. This is a very important appointment. It is a clear symbol of America’s confidence in Ukraine’s future. I had a meeting with Mrs. Pritzker in New York, and she was also in Washington for expanded talks with President Biden. The atmosphere is productive. And it is important for us to ensure that the Special Representative can start working with Ukraine and in Ukraine as soon as possible.
I also held a meeting with government officials and the Office on our grain exports. We coordinated further steps and noted the results achieved. First: The European Commission endorsed the roadmap for mutual monitoring of grain exports. This is completely rational. Second, we are gradually removing emotions from this topic on most issues. Work with our neighbors can and should become fully constructive, and Ukraine is doing everything for this. Third, I am grateful to those of our partners who have prevented violations of EU trade rules and the Association Agreement. We expect the same constructive cooperation as with Bulgaria and Romania from other neighboring countries. The European Union is a space for mutual understanding and cooperation. This is how it should be.
And one more thing.
I would like to thank all our Air Force servicemen, all our anti-aircraft gunners, and servicemen of mobile fire groups who repel Russian missile and drone attacks every day and night.
During just one attack against Ukraine last night, the enemy used 33 strike weapons – “Shaheds” and missiles. Most of them were launched against Odesa and the region. Most of them were shot down. Unfortunately, not all of them. Unfortunately, there were hits. But 30 targets out of 33 were neutralized. It is important to bear in mind that each neutralized target means saved lives.
And we will retaliate against Russia for every strike against our cities and villages, against every Ukrainian community. For Odesa, for Beryslav and Kherson, for Donetsk, Kharkiv and Sumy regions. For all our regions. I thank everyone who rescues people after the occupiers’ attacks! I thank everyone in the world who helps us defend Ukraine!
Glory to our warriors!
Glory to all who work for the sake of the state!
Glory to Ukraine!
The Abrams have arrived in Ukraine:
Abrams, welcome to 🇺🇦!
— Rustem Umerov (@rustem_umerov) September 25, 2023
The first batch of Abrams tanks was delivered to Ukraine on Saturday – New York Timeshttps://t.co/CyoVnvD5n9 pic.twitter.com/eQyV8oJu3I
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
When President Zelenskyy addressed Canada’s parliament a naturalized Ukrainian-Canadian citizen who fought in World War II was present in parliament and recognized by the Speaker of Parliament for fighting against the Soviets and Russia. The problem was that this World War II veteran had fought in the 14th Waffen Division also known as the Waffen SS-Galician Division. The Times of Israel has details: (emphasis mine)
TORONTO (AP) — The speaker of Canada’s House of Commons apologized Sunday for recognizing a man who fought in a Nazi military unit during World War II.
Just after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky delivered an address in the House of Commons on Friday, Canadian lawmakers gave 98-year-old Yaroslav Hunka a standing ovation when Speaker Anthony Rota drew attention to him. Rota introduced Hunka as a Canadian and Ukrainian war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division.
The First Ukrainian Division was a voluntary unit commanded by the Nazis that was also known as the Waffen-SS Galicia Division or the SS 14th Waffen Division. It was responsible for “mass murder” and “crimes against humanity during the Holocaust,” according to Canada’s Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center.
“In my remarks following the address of the President of Ukraine, I recognized an individual in the gallery. I have subsequently become aware of more information which causes me to regret my decision to do so,” Rota said in a statement.
He added that his fellow Parliament members and the Ukraine delegation were not aware of his plan to recognize Hunka. Rota noted Hunka, a Ukrainian immigrant, is from his district.
“I particularly want to extend my deepest apologies to Jewish communities in Canada and around the world. I accept full responsibility for my action,” Rota said.
Hunka could not be immediately reached for comment.
Canadian lawmakers cheered and Zelensky raised his fist in acknowledgement as Hunka saluted from the gallery during two separate standing ovations. Rota called him a “Ukrainian hero and a Canadian hero, and we thank him for all his service.”
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s office said in a statement that Rota had apologized and accepted full responsibility for issuing the invitation to Hunka and for the recognition in Parliament.
“This was the right thing to do,” Trudeau’s statement said. “No advance notice was provided to the Prime Minister’s Office, nor the Ukrainian delegation, about the invitation or the recognition.”
That did not stop the leader of the opposition, Pierre Poilievre, from slamming an “error in judgment.”
The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies issued a statement Sunday saying the speaker’s adulatory remarks ignored “the horrific fact that Hunka served in the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, a Nazi military unit whose crimes against humanity during the Holocaust are well-documented… [It] was responsible for the mass murder of innocent civilians with a level of brutality and malice that is unimaginable.”
The Jewish advocacy group called the incident “shocking” and “incredibly disturbing.”
“An apology is owed to every Holocaust survivor and veteran of the Second World War who fought the Nazis, and an explanation must be provided as to how this individual entered the hallowed halls of Canadian Parliament and received recognition from the Speaker of the House and a standing ovation,” it said in a statement.
B’nai Brith Canada’s CEO, Michael Mostyn, said it was outrageous that Parliament honored a former member of a Nazi unit, saying Ukrainian “ultra-nationalist ideologues” who volunteered for the Galicia Division “dreamed of an ethnically homogenous Ukrainian state and endorsed the idea of ethnic cleansing.”
“We understand an apology is forthcoming. We expect a meaningful apology. Parliament owes an apology to all Canadians for this outrage, and a detailed explanation as to how this could possibly have taken place at the center of Canadian democracy,” Mostyn said before Rota issued his statement.
Members of Parliament from all parties rose to applaud Hunka. A spokesperson for the opposition Conservative party said the party was not aware of his history at the time.
Apparently no one else did either. And, even worse, no one properly vetted this guy.
Here is Speaker Rota’s letter of apology:
And his verbal apology today:
Canada’s opposition leader, who also, as The Times of Israel reported, gave Hunka a standing ovation, is trying to leverage this for his own and his party’s political advantage. The Globe & Mail has details:
Question Period was dominated Monday by exchanges over the Speaker of the House of Commons publicly honouring a Ukrainian-Canadian man visiting the Commons as a Second World War hero, even though the man served in a Nazi SS unit during the war.
Anthony Rota, the Speaker, presided over Monday’s session in the Commons even though he has been at the centre of the controversy and apologized in writing and verbally for Friday’s incident after a speech to Parliament by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Pierre Poilievre, the federal Conservative leader and leader of the official opposition, pressed for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to take responsibility for the incident, although Mr. Rota has said the situation was entirely his fault.
Karina Gould, the government house leader, said she was extremely disappointed with the situation, but noted, speaking to Mr. Rota, that it was the Speaker’s call – ”and yours alone” – to allow the individual into the galleries. “It’s something we are all very disappointed by.”
She added, “As a descendant of Jewish Holocaust survivors , I am personally very hurt by the fact that this chamber recognized this individual and I am sure that everyone feels the same way in this chamber.”
On Monday, Mr. Poilievre said the prime minister was responsible for security and vetting anyone who comes in contact with a foreign leader, particularly one at war, and that he should apologize.
Mr. Trudeau was not present in the Commons for Question Period on Monday. Aside from private meetings, the only commitment on his agenda for the day was a meeting with British Columbia Premier David Eby, who is visiting the nation’s capital.
Ms. Gould asked Mr. Poilievre not to politicize the situation, focusing on Mr. Rota in her response.
“He knows just as well as everyone else in this chamber that the decision to invite this individual was yours, Mr. Speaker, and yours alone, that you did not inform the government or the Ukrainian delegation that you were inviting him or that you would recognize him. You made that public yesterday. The leader of the opposition knows that. I would ask that he sticks to the facts.”
Earlier Monday, the Bloc Québécois joined NDP’s calls for the resignation of Mr. Rota, backing the NDP calls for Mr. Rota to go over the situation.
Hours after the NDP House Leader Peter Julian on Monday said Anthony Rota should quit, Yves-François Blanchet, Leader of the Bloc, backed the Speaker’s exit.
“The Bloc Québécois can only note, on the one hand, the damage caused by the Speaker’s error, and on the other hand, the loss of confidence in the House that it needs to carry out its function,” Mr. Blanchet said in a statement.
“Therefore, we call on the Speaker of the House to act responsibly and relinquish his office.”
The Prime Minister’s Office has said that Mr. Hunka was a guest selected independently by the Speaker and that “no advance notice was provided to the Prime Minister’s Office, nor the Ukrainian delegation, about the invitation or recognition.”
Outside the Commons on Monday, Mr. Julian said the NDP will talk to other parties to see where they stand on the fate of the Speaker. He declined to specifically respond to a journalist’s question about the other parties not calling for Mr. Rota’s resignation.
The NDP house leader said the caucus is not working, at this point, on a motion calling for the Speaker to step down but that “this is a very serious situation. We’re not going to play games with this.”
Responding to Conservative criticism of the government, Mr. Julian said it is his understanding that the Speaker chooses guests in the gallery: “I don’t believe that is something that goes through the government.”
The Kremlin is also trying to leverage this screw up for its own advantage too! The Jerusalem Post has the details.
The Kremlin said on Monday it was “outrageous” that a Ukrainian man who served in one of Adolf Hitler’s Waffen SS units during World War Two had been presented to Canada’s parliament last week as a hero.
Yaroslav Hunka, 98, received two standing ovations from Canadian lawmakers in the House of Commons lower chamber during a visit by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday. The speaker, Anthony Rota, apologized in the House on Monday for formally recognizing Hunka but did not heed calls to resign.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the episode showed a careless disregard for historical truth, and that the memory of Nazi crimes must be preserved.
“Such sloppiness of memory is outrageous,” Peskov told reporters. “Many Western countries, including Canada, have raised a young generation that does not know who fought whom or what happened during the Second World War. And they know nothing about the threat of fascism.”
The episode plays into the narrative promoted by Russian President Vladimir Putin that he sent his army into Ukraine last year to “demilitarize and denazify” the country, a European democracy whose Jewish president lost family members in the Holocaust.
Earlier this month Putin stressed the part that “local nationalists and anti-Semites” had played in the murder of 1.5 million Jews in Ukraine during the Holocaust and said “this has a direct relation to the present day.”
Peskov told reporters that Russia was waging an “irreconcilable fight” against fascism that was “trying to find its feet in the center of Europe, in Ukraine.”
The tankies, vatniks, and useful idiots have been out in force on social media over this for the past several days.
Here is Illia Ponomarenko’s take”
So, lemme make the situation clear:
– The Canadian House speaker makes a poorly thought out and ad hoc decision to give greetings to an old Ukrainian-Canadian man in the hall in the presence of Ukraine’s president
– this old man suddenly appears to have had history with the… pic.twitter.com/HeaJmXOGen— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) September 25, 2023
So, lemme make the situation clear:
– The Canadian House speaker makes a poorly thought out and ad hoc decision to give greetings to an old Ukrainian-Canadian man in the hall in the presence of Ukraine’s president
– this old man suddenly appears to have had history with the Waffen-SS during WWII
– the Canadian speaker naturally offers apologies for the scandal and the awkward situation.
Meanwhile, advocates of the most devastating European war since WWII waged by Russia:
“GOTCHA!!!! So Ukraine is a Nazi nation here!! We told ya! Here’s why Ukraine must be exterminated to ashes and annexed by Russia!”
My take as a Jewish American national security professional sitting here trying to finish the update before breaking my Yom Kippur fast is that Speaker Rota made a stupid mistake. Beyond that there is no there there. And anyone, from Canadian opposition leaders to American politicians or commentators to the usual blue checkmark group on Twitter, need to think real hard about whether they really want to take the Kremlin’s side on this given what we know of first the Soviet Union’s and now Russia’s alternative history of World War II. They won’t of course, but they should.
One final point on this because I’m sure someone – not here – will eventually start calling for this nonagenerian’s prosecution for war crimes: DON’T!! The guy is in his 90s, what meaningful result are you going to get from making his final years miserable? None, none whatsoever. I’m not soft on NAZIs or war criminals, but at some point there is a difference between justice balanced with mercy and revenge. Deuteronomy 16:20 commands Jews that “Justice, justice shall you pursue,” not vengeance. At this point having the history of his activities in World War II broadcast to the entire world, let alone his neighbors, is enough punishment for the 98 year old Mr. Hunka. He has to live his remaining years with the memory of what he did and did not do. And he has to live them with everyone he knows knowing about it. That’s more than enough punishment.
Verbove and Novoprokopivka:
From recent video geoconfirmations, it's clear that the UAF are actively operating near Verbove and Novoprokopivka. Satellite analysis, based on observable landscape changes, supports it and shows fire shifting toward both Verbove and the southern part of Novoprokopivka🧵Thread: pic.twitter.com/heEwrZOK6L
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
3/ For a clearer grasp of the tactical situation, terrain understanding is key. The landscape is primarily flat with slight elevations shown on this map. Remember, these elevations are relative to the overall flat terrain, and the red color doesn't always show dominant hills. pic.twitter.com/3NdUtNJ7Hr
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
5/ I want to emphasize that russian defense has not collapsed. Despite enduring substantial losses and being compelled to retreat, they still maintained control over their forces and afforded organized retreat, continuing to present a formidable challenge to our forces.
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
7/ I kindly request your support through likes, follows, and shares of the first message in the thread. Recent satellite imagery and the integration of new elevation and 3D tools depend on your generous contributions via the Buy Me a Coffee account linked to my profile. Thank you
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
No, I do not expect a quick advance thereafter. This can be confirmed by statements from officials who say that it will roll over to the winter period
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
So far russians are being pushed further, but pushing and breakthrough are different things, and breakthrough exploitation is a whole different story. There are still minefields ahead
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
They are weakened and decimated, but it's not like our forces have grown and added in ammo and manpower
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
No, the ammo situation isn't great, and the coming numbers are much lower than required for advances. Russians also modify and adapt to our tactics, no need to assume that they don't. The situation remains difficult despite serious progress, no need to play down their defenses
— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) September 25, 2023
Russia occupied Sevastopol:
An air raid alert sounds in Sevastopol and the rest of Crimea. Russian air defense activity is also reported. Russian sources claim that Crimea is under Storm Shadow attack. It is also reported that Russians allegedly scrambled military aircrafts and helicopters to avoid being… pic.twitter.com/g39TbH3Sxb
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
After the attack on the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol, 34 officers died, among them the commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, Victor Sokolov. Another 105 were injured. – according to the Special Operations Forces of Ukrainehttps://t.co/J4yVGpnT9C pic.twitter.com/J0QjjVzGEm
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
Commander of the Black Sea Fleet was killed as a result of attack on the HQ in Sevastopol as reported by SOF. Additionally, 33 Russian officers were killed, and 105 more injured. They say more will follow. pic.twitter.com/ELcWgHLuuy
— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) September 25, 2023
Sorokyne/Krasnodon, Russian occupied Luhansk:
/1. Explosions/ammunition detonation is reported in Russian controlled Sorokyne (Krasnodon), Luhansk region. pic.twitter.com/rOsfUgJ0d1
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
/3. Another video of explosion in Sorokyne (Krasnodon) pic.twitter.com/OB9ijdGLQr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
Chkalovski air base, Moscow Oblast, Russia:
Ruslan Leviev, a founder of Conflict Intelligence Team, has said that they do have a footage that confirms the recent sabotage on the Russian Chkalovski air base, near Moscow. However they are not able to publicly reveal it because of safety issues.
P.S: Not long ago, CIT also… https://t.co/XceVKP3L0t pic.twitter.com/MKi8QEZ333— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
Ruslan Leviev, a founder of Conflict Intelligence Team, has said that they do have a footage that confirms the recent sabotage on the Russian Chkalovski air base, near Moscow. However they are not able to publicly reveal it because of safety issues. P.S: Not long ago, CIT also published unique footage of the damage to the Russian submarine Rostov-on-Don. youtube.com/watch?v=gisw33
Bryansk air base, Bryansk Oblast, Russia:
As I understand it, the cause of incident in Khalino military airfield looked something similar to what we can see on todays photo from Bryansk:
Today a UAV fell in Bryansk, on the photos the Russian military and the FSB are picking up and inspecting parts of the fallen drone.… https://t.co/8qftjiywLh pic.twitter.com/VYogy2yrXG— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
As I understand it, the cause of incident in Khalino military airfield looked something similar to what we can see on todays photo from Bryansk: Today a UAV fell in Bryansk, on the photos the Russian military and the FSB are picking up and inspecting parts of the fallen drone. Unfortunately in this case, unlike Khalino, the FSB and officers were not injured.
Khalino air base, Kursk Oblast, Russia:
More information about yesterday’s Khalino military airfield incident. As per Main Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine:
At the airfield "Khalino" in the Kursk region, a Ukrainian drone was landed by Russian electronic warfare systems on the runway. When the leadership of the… https://t.co/DPgNOr4OSx— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) September 25, 2023
More information about yesterday’s Khalino military airfield incident. As per Main Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine:
At the airfield “Khalino” in the Kursk region, a Ukrainian drone was landed by Russian electronic warfare systems on the runway. When the leadership of the aviation regiment and FSB officers arrived for closer inspection drone exploded. As claimed, the following were killed or injured during the explosion:
→ commander of the 14th aviation regiment;
→ one of his deputies;
→ a group of aviator officers;
→ a representative of the FSB military counterintelligence;
→ airport employees.
More details: https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/na-rossiyskom-aerodrome-halino-ukrainskiy-dron-udaril-po-rukovodstvu-aviapolka-gur
For you naval drone enthusiasts:
New underwater drone Marichka. Can’t wait to see Marichka hunting for Russian ships pic.twitter.com/Tez4kvd7y6
— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) September 25, 2023
That’s enough for tonight. Not least because I really NEED to eat something and rehydrate as I’ve not eaten anything since about 7 PM last night and have had less than 6 ounces of water or any other beverage today.
Obligatory:
Your daily Patron!
There is a new slide show at Patron’s official TikTok. Those don’t embed here, so click across if you want to see it.
Open thread!
Alison Rose
YIKES. That story out of Canada…just yikes. But I agree with Ponomarenko and you and others that this is hardly some kind of HA HA GOTCHA YOU SECRET NAZI LOVERS!!!! situation. Sometimes people make mistakes. They clearly didn’t try to cover their asses or make excuses, and as soon as the truth was known, they apologized multiple times. Every slimy little critter in the kremlin can fuck off to the rings of Saturn with their responses. If they cared so much about the feelings of Jews, they wouldn’t be trying to murder the couple million of them in Ukraine, including the president.
Here’s a bad-ass for you:
200km is 124 miles. Good Lordy.
Thank you as always, Adam. Hope dinner tasted great.
Thor Heyerdahl
Pierre Poilievre – a smarmy little shit who has never had a regular job outside of the political party world in Canada.
Anonymous At Work
Adam,
What’s the impact of the Ukrainians effecting an “involuntary reorganization of Russian leadership”? If this were a military based on merit, I’d think that the next officers weren’t as prepared or able. However, in the Russian military, are the next-in-lines just less able to backstab their fellow officers?
PS: Marine PX, so many jokes possible but that video was worth the time.
coin operated
Thank you as always Adam.
And I agree…there is nothing gained in prosecuting the 90+ y/o. His remaining life is about to experience some serious upheaval with these revelations…and that will be punishment enough in my book.
Edited to fix his age. 90+ is close enough yes?
Ruckus
Adam, I fully agree with you.
Yes the man should have been checked out but damn, it’s been 78 years since the end of WWII, and the man is 98 yrs old. Yes it is difficult to let some things go by, but still, he was 20 at the end of WWII and has had all of those 78 yrs go by. It’s not like he’s going to bring back WWII at 98 yrs old.
Can we move on, please.
Gin & Tonic
Adam, minor correction, if you see this, but Mr. Hunka is 98, not 94. He’d have to have joined at the age of 13 to be 94 today.
The history of the “Galician” Division of the Waffen SS is complex and nuanced, traits that aren’t helpful in 2023. Yes, they were under the command of the SS, but you have to understand that in the Nazi taxonomy, Slavs were untermenschen. They had no independent authority or control, and were to a large degree cannon fodder. Those that survived the war were held in Allied POW camps and were eventually adjudged by the US, UK and Canada to not be “regular SS” and were allowed to emigrate.
Without reading Snyder’s Bloodlands you may be unaware of the history of Western Ukraine (where Galicia [aka Halychyna] is) in the 1930’s and into WWII. But if you were 17-18-19 years old in 1942, living in Galicia, and had the opportunity to get an automatic rifle and try to kill russians, that was very, very compelling. Even knowing that history would judge you harshly decades later wouldn’t have deterred you.
For a number of reasons I have had the opportunity to know dozens, probably scores of former members of this Division, almost all dead by now. The war ended, they emigrated to the West, built new lives, raised children and were productive members of society for a half-century or more, without employing violence against anyone. This is why I refrain from judging what people might do in circumstances I cannot fathom. War is hell, war for your own homeland is more hell, and people do what they must to survive and protect their home. Sitting in comfort eight decades later and judging their actions is a luxury I do not partake in.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
Very well stated.
Anonymous At Work
Minor update on Black Sea Fleet: apparently RU officers weren’t getting paid, decided to self-enterprise about local happenings in Sevastopol, and then the strike occurred. Link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-officers-hadnt-paid-moscow-200016928.html
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Anonymous At Work:
Gee, not paying your officers just implies great things about the Russian military and government, doesn’t it?
Ben Vernia
@Gin & Tonic: Good points. As a young law school graduate, I was a law clerk to a judge handling the case of John Demjanjuk, the Ukrainian-born Cleveland auto worker who was denaturalized for being a guard in death camps in Poland (he was ultimately convicted in Germany for being a guard at Sobibor, but he died while his case was on appeal). Some Ukrainians who served in Nazi units or positions volunteered from German prison camps that had extremely high mortality rates. For many of these people, the Holodomor in ’32-’33 was not that distant a memory. That’s not to excuse what they did once they joined, but it’s a much more complicated picture than many (e.g., Russians, some GOP lawmakers) would want us to believe.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Thanks again Adam!
Prescott Cactus
@Anonymous At Work:
I thought union construction workers got even when the checks didn’t come on time. Creampuffs.
Thanks Adam, for the knowledge you distribute.
tobie
@Ruckus: Do you tell African-Americans they should forget slavery? Or the racism of Presidents like Woodrow Wilson? Do you tell Koreans they should forget the Japanese occupation? Afterall it was a century ago.
No one is picking on Hunta. No one is suggesting he should be sent to the Hague. But some people–myself included–do not want him hailed as a hero for participating in a unit that committed atrocities.
There are Holocaust survivors still alive who remember well what happened in Galicia, knew folks sent to labor camps in Transnistria, and remember the pogroms in Lviv. Asking that one individual not be singled out for praise at an event honoring the bravery of Ukrainians today fighting a larger invading army is hardly holding a grudge.
Alison Rose
@Ruckus: I’m not baying for the man’s blood, and I read and appreciate G&T’s comment. But “Can we move on, please” is a bit flippant considering the topic.
tobie
@Ben Vernia: Check out what happened to the Jewish population of Chernivsti and then maybe we can discuss whether the Ukrainians who signed up to serve in Nazi units did so primarily to fight the Russians. I don’t think so.
Chetan Murthy
@tobie: i think both Adam and Ruckus were saying something different. No, Hunka should not have been praised in parliament. Yes, after it happened those responsible should have made public apologies and I suspect that the speaker of the house needs to resign. Yes, Apologies are due (as The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies put it) to every Holocaust survivor and every World War II veteran of the fight against the Nazis. But I think Adam and Ruckus are both saying nothing will be served by prosecuting the man at this late date. The lustration that he has just received is going to be wrenching enough.
I don’t know if Adam and Ruckus are correct, but I don’t know but they’re wrong either. Just clarifying what I think that they were trying to say.
tobie
@Alison Rose: Flippant is one way of putting it. Offensive is another. I think I’ll wash my hands of this thread. I grew up with too many victims of the Holocaust to be able to stomach the idea that the Poles and Ukrainians who collaborated with the Nazis did so primarily because they were worried about the independence of their homeland.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I’ll fix his age in a bit. Also, I know the history. But I also had not eaten or had anything to drink for 25 hours when I was working on the post and decided that I could leave that stuff out so I could finish the update and break my fast.
Rocks
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Such great things that the Republican party is getting ready to emulate it here.
Traveller
A Canadian War Commission found differently in 1950 when the war was fresh in everyone’s mind. I still have seen nothing that convinces me that Mr hunka was a Nazi then or now. I await proof that contradicts the 1950 finding of fact.
….a Canadian War Commission found as follows:
The Galicia Division (14. Waffen grenadier division der SS [gal. #1]) should not be indicted as a group. The members of Galicia Division were individually screened for security purposes before admission to Canada. Charges of war crimes of Galicia Division have never been substantiated, either in 1950 when they were first preferred, or in 1984 when they were renewed, or before this Commission. Further, in the absence of evidence of participation or knowledge of specific war crimes, mere membership in the Galicia Division is insufficient to justify prosecution.[16]
Best Wishes, Traveller
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I fixed his age.
tobie
@Chetan Murthy: No one is asking for Hunka to be prosecuted. The Simon Wiesenthal Center and B’nai Brith Canada merely asked for Rota to apologize for inviting him to Parliament. That is all. How Ruckus jumped from that small ask to the suggestion that Jews are hounding this man is not clear to me.
bookworm1398
Hunka – The MPs may not have known his history, but he knew. How did he not realize this would be the inevitable consequence of going to Parliament? He destroyed his reputation himself.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: That “if you don’t know the history” was directed at the general readership, not at you. Apologies for my imprecise language.
Ben Vernia
@tobie: I didn’t say that. I think the history is pretty clear that the German POW camps housing Soviet soldiers were hell-holes, with widespread starvation and death from disease and exposure. Some probably joined German auxiliary units because of ideological kinship, but it’s hard to conclude that they all did so.
Adam L Silverman
Everybody calm the FUCK down! There is a reason why I didn’t go into the history of Galicia, Ukrainian Jewry, the Waffen Galician Division, etc. And that reason is no one here can do nuance. I addressed this issue in the update itself because I didn’t want it being handled in comments. And I chose to keep to just the events of the past several days because I know that if I get into nuance someone is going to show up to parse it. Especially when it deals with something like this. Additionally, someone will also show up to point out my typo without giving me credit for spelling nonagenarian correctly.
So everyone simmer down.
Jay
Went looking for it, but I couldn’t find it again, but
One of the RuZZian “News Channels” claimed that RuZZia shot down a StormShadow today, killing it’s British Flight Crew,……….LOL
In Canada, we have the pre-WWI “Ukrainian” migration wave,*
the Post WWI “Austro Hungarian” migration wave,
the Holodomor migration wave,
the post WWII migration wave,
the post Soviet migration wave.
Like the Serbs, Croats, Germans, Austrians, post WWII immigrants really need to have their backgrounds checked, because we imported a lot of Nazi’s, (because they were “anti-Communist). Back in the 60’s there were several Canadian-Ukrainian terrorist groups that targeted Soviet Diplomats, Airliners, Shipping.
*T’s “official” background is Russian Metis Canadian, but I did some digging. Her roots go back to a Ukrainian Methodist community near Odessa, who were internally deported from Ukraine, (refusing military service) to several villages in Northern Russia by the Tsar, eventually in 1910, they made it to Canada.
Ben Vernia
@Adam L Silverman: Wise choice not to go into it. I regret doing so.
Gin & Tonic
@Jay:
These are the ones the Canadian government sent to internment camps in 1914-1920. Not something mentioned in your history books, is it?
Lyrebird
I suspect Zelensky understood Mr. Rota’s intention to lift up the Ukrainian cause and celebrate Ukr-CAN ties. I am not saying the can of worms has no worms in it, I am in complete agreement with Alison Rose’s opener:
And across a wide range of responses to the event, I think we’d find a lot of agreement on the last bit with the rings of Saturn.
In the Ukraine of today, we’re still seeing lots of country over party & country over divisions. Did anyone else see this interview with fmr Prez Poroshenko? (DKos link) He’s all, could you please STOP with the conspiracy garbage (Burisma stuff) already?
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
also, it’s not the first time that Canadian Officials have put their foot in their mouth regarding “honoring” old Nazi’s and Nazi Ajacent.
Jay
@Gin & Tonic:
Nope, it’s mentioned, along with the German’s, Austro Hungarians, etc.
And a bunch of them, (not sent to the camps) were “Russians”, from the Russian “camps” for the Ukrainians and other internally displaced. Funny thing, Government paperwork.
T’s family on her Dad’s side, missed all that because they were “Russian”. T’s family on her Mom’s side did not how ever miss out on the Treaty 9 Starvation, forced disposession and relocation to shit lands and then 4 generations of Residential Schools and no civil rights.
Chetan Murthy
@Anonymous At Work: Who knew Russians were such Libertarians!?!?!
Villago Delenda Est
Pierre Poilievre is really a despicable excuse for a human. Of course, he’s a Tory, so it’s natural.
Jay
@Gin & Tonic:
oh, btw, because of paperwork, if they were Ukrainian’s from Russia, they got a free pass, if they were Ukrainian’s from Austro-Hungary, they went to the camps.
Jay
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s not the Tory Party, (miss you Joe), it’s the PCP Party, because fentanyl was already trademarked.
wjca
While the speaker should resign, I think it’s equally important that the staff, who should have vetted this guy, suffer some consequences as well. On the order of losing their jobs, and steps taken to make sure that any politician considering hiring them knows their history here.
Jay
@wjca:
Meh,……
This is not the frist or last time that Canadian Officials will screw up in calling “up” somebody questionable.
There was a case about 2 years ago where somebody called “up” a Canadian Iranian businessman,……………. who was a former IRGC Major.
The way it generally work’s is at short notice, some “group” puts forward a “person of note” with an annotated backstory, to act as a shiny thing for what ever the talk of the day is, and a cursory check is done, ( at best).
MP’s, the Speaker, etc can’t really do a “deep dive” through all the Organs Of State, etc, with out a FOIA, which takes months and months and months, if they bother to respond.
So we have had embaressing cases of FauxIndians, Tax Cheats, Serial Bankruptors, etc all presented as “upstanding citizens”.
Andrya
My reaction is different from everyone else’s: I don’t think the important thing is the 98-year old Hunka. Someone arranged for this- a 98 year old did not arrange his own recognition in a session of Parliament. The Canadian Parliament needs to identify who that someone was. It’s barely possible that it was an actual neo-Nazi, or a personal friend of Hunka’s who did not realize that this would be disastrous for him personally. I’d consider it far, far more likely that this was a russian government intelligence operation, and unfortunately an extremely successful one. The person who set this up needs to be identified, publicly shamed, and kept far, far away from government functions in the future.
ETA: Jay kinda beat me to it, but I still want to emphasize the importance of identifying and outing russian agents involved in this.
am
Thanks for these posts, I’ve read all of them.
YY_Sima Qian
There was all kinds of ugliness on the Eastern Front all around (on the Western Front, too, but Eastern Front was a whole another level), there are few countries/peoples/organizations w/o skeletons in their closets. Like w/ the members of the Estonian Waffen SS units, most members of the Galician Division probably joined to escape from the hellish German POW camps, and/or to fight Russians, & not in some kind of ideological commitment to National Socialism. I mean, there were Russian Waffen SS units, made up of “volunteers” among POWs. That did not stop at least some of them (if not many of them) from committing atrocities against other Soviet POWs, Ukrainian civilians (particularly Jews), & anti-Nazi partisans. That they would live unremarkable lives post-War is neither here nor there. They, whether implicated in atrocities or not, were & are human beings. I am reminded of the post-script from the HBO movie Conspiracy, which dramatizes the Wannsee Conference.I was struck by how a few of the participants escaped justice during the Nüremburg Tribunal, due to lack of evidence, & lived out their days anonymously, in unremarkable professions. & these were high level bureaucrats in the Nazi Party & the SS, at the center of the machinery that executed the Holocaust.
However, people who donned the Waffen SS uniform should not be lauded or lionized, precisely because of the cause they associated themselves with, no matter how alluring they may be to Ukrainian & Estonian nationalists. As for the Canadian Parliament failing to vet Hunka, it is just downstream from a New World tendency to be ahistorical, & to view history through simplistic & romantic lenses, particularly as it relates to WW II. There were “good guys” & “bad guys”, & who are considered to be “good guys” & “bad guys” in retrospect are influenced by who are considered “good guys” & “bad guys” today. Not many people, politicians least of all, are willing & able to grapple w/ history in all if its complexity & nuance.
Yarrow
Good to see the fellas taking advantage of Mike Lee’s idiocy,
Jay
@Yarrow:
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF61RsEbaEAAwqom.jpg
Ruckus
@tobie:
@Alison Rose:
Sorry if I came across as trying to minimize this. But this man is 98 yrs old. Do you know if he had a choice to be in the German military in WWII? Many people in his position had the choice, serve or die. We don’t know if he was one of them or not. As a side note I live in a seniors complex, ages 55 and up. Most people are mid 60s to mid 80s. The oldest I know is 97. I’m 74. I served in the USN over 50 yrs ago. And yes I can remember a lot of what happened because it made an impression on me. But there is a difference between 50+ yrs ago and 78 yrs ago and between 74 yrs old and 98 yrs old. I’m saying it is possible that he is fully functional and it is possible that he is just still living. I don’t know and neither do you. But as I see people that are close to his age regularly I know that it is likely he only remembers the high points at best. I don’t know either of you other by posting here, same as you don’t know me any better either.
But I’d bet I’m a tad older than either of you and I know people this man’s age. A hell of a lot of water has gone under the keel since all this happened to him and I’m giving people his age the benefit of the doubt unless there is incontrovertible evidence proving different. And because I served during a war and know that the draft didn’t give a shit if you liked or hated the war being fought or any war. And I’d bet the German military back then gave far less of as shit than ours did 50+ yrs ago when I served, which was exactly zero shits.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I don’t know if I’m wrong either. And I’m not claiming to be right.
I’m simply asking is do we know that this man was more than a pawn in the in the German military of WWII? I didn’t want to go to war in the late 60s, and neither did many of my fellow citizens. But I made a choice of enlisting that I thought would be a compromise that I could live with. I’m saying we don’t know if this man made the same choice or not. Hell I’m not saying I made the right choice. But I’d bet that I had better options than this man had if he wasn’t any more willing than I was.
Chetan Murthy
@Ruckus: I think this is precisely why Adam chose (and then admonished us) to not inquire into the events that happened in this man’s time in WWII. He confined himself only to the mistake of honoring him, of not vetting him thoroughly, and then to asking whether anything would be served by starting at this late date to inquire into this man’s crimes during the war. He’s 98 (or 94): how many years will he live under the best conditions? Is that enough time for him to be investigated, prosecuted, and then imprisoned? Even assuming that he’s a real baddie, have any of his victims survived to give testimony? It’s all fraught, and very difficult to imagine successfully bringing to a satisfying end (either guilt or innocence).
If he were in his 60s, things would be different. Even in his 70s.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jay: Neighborhood cats have been startled.
Sebastian
My grandfather on my mother’s side was in a similar situation like this gentleman, albeit in WW2 Bosnia, not in Ukraine.
He was I believe 17 at the time and he lived in a village (if you could call it that) of less than 100 people, the houses quite far from each other.
His father, uncles, and all other adult men in the area were either dead, or fighting with the Ustaša (Croatians allied with Nazi Germany), the Domobrani (Croatian Nationalists fighting the Nazis and Communists), Tito’s Communist Partisans (Tito was Croatian), or if they were native Serbians they were fighting with the Četniks (Serbian Nationalists), or were forced to work or fight for whichever army unit passed by. That could have been Romanians, Italians, Hungarians, or Germans.
He was picked up by a rag tag unit, nominally under Ustaša command, but they were just a bunch of kids, too, forced into service only a little earlier. He got a hat and a rifle and that was as much training he received.
Shortly after, the local Waffen SS unit took command of the boys and they became auxiliaries. In other words, they had to dig ditches, pull and carry heavy stuff, man posts and be shot by partisans first, and be ordered to advance first as cannon fodder.
My grandfather never told me if he committed any atrocities. He told me he was a kid and mostly scared, especially of mortars. What I know is that he wasn’t in that unit for long because the war ended less than a year later. All he wanted was to get back home to his mom. When he and his brother finally made it home, they saw partisans raping and torturing his mom and sister, demanding to know where he and his brother were. They escaped and hid in the forests, hoping the partisans would leave but they kept raping his mom and sister and so he and his brother surrendered. He and his brother were tortured, his mom and sister were forced to watch. His brother died after a few days of torture, but he didn’t. They had their way with him for several weeks, until they got bored or were called away. They didn’t kill him but he never regained full controL over his hands again.
I believe people have a too romantic vision of how things really were at that time, first and foremost about the status and “rights” or “freedom” or “choice” some of these people had. If an enlisted German soldier had to follow orders and was already treated like shit by his army and his officers, what do you think how were the auxiliaries treated?
I am not trying to absolve anyone of any responsibilities of their actions and any crimes they might have committed IF they did but perhaps we should be careful in accusing broad groups of crimes committed by the SS and the Wehrmacht.
Peace.
Jay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Faustusnotes
@Adam L Silverman: he was invited by Zelensky and Trudeau, which you well know, and Ponomarenko is a nazi, something you also well know, you are simply running interference for Nazis now.
Sebastian
@Faustusnotes:
The what now?
Alison Rose
@Faustusnotes: If this is sarcasm, it’s poorly done. If it isn’t, fuck off into the sun.
Jay
@Faustusnotes:
Dumber than a post,……
@Sebastian:
@Alison Rose:
Vatnick troll appears,…….
Sebastian
@Jay:
Goethe’s most important work.
Jay
@Sebastian:
Yup, but a dumber NYM for a Vatnick troll than JimBob1776USA
Jay
https://nitter.net/iljaandreev/status/1706431697548398765#m
Sebastian
@Jay:
I saw the NAFO Walrus Flork memes today but didn’t know what happened.
Thanks!
Jay
@Sebastian:
Yurp, NAFO is scary on it. they must be funded by Based Mike Lee.
Jay
@Sebastian:
@Alison Rose:
BTW, if we are guessing what species of genocide approving , RuZZian Imperialist Vatnick troll it is, I’m guessing Tankie because of the literary reference .
It’s sad, his parents mortgage’d their retirement to fund his education and he learned nothing.
Faustusnotes
@Jay: it’s trolling to point out a source is a nazi? Is this what US liberalism has sunk to?
trucmat
@Faustusnotes:
Ridiculous claim for which you supply nothing for corroboration. The people you slur are clearly on the side of Ukraine and NATO and the USA. Who are you backing?
Gin & Tonic
I’m sure it’s complete happenstance that out of 579 days of Adam’s updates, the one and only time we hear from this commenter is on the day the tankies and vatniks are working overtime.
faustusnotes
@trucmat: He admits it himself on his twitter feed. Silverman has been following his twitter feed, he knows. It’s not hard to check, and at this stage, after years of Ukrainian soldiers constantly appearing in western media showing off their nazi badges, you really should be doing your due diligence. The same for a few of the other regulars on Silverman’s updates – he knows (and you should) their provenance, their party affiliations, their patrons, and their relationships to the many right-wing organizations in Ukraine.
G&T, do you think there might be a reason people are unusually exercised about the fact that a parliament in a liberal democracy held a standing ovation for a Nazi? Maybe that’s the happenstance right there – but I understand if some Ukrainian supporters are a little sanguine about the idea of inviting an SS veteran for a standing ovation at the end of a Jewish head of state’s speech. Maybe you’re sympathetic to the symbolism? Can’t understand why people are upset?
Another Scott
@faustusnotes:
This you, bro??:
Cheers,
Scott.
Barney
The thing about the Ukrainian-Canadian who fought for the Nazis is that the Speaker had been told he was in the gallery, and had been told he fought for the “First Ukrainian Division”. So, who told him, and reckoned that the Speaker and his staff would not check up on which side the “First Ukrainian Division” were, and would instead give a shout-out to the guy who fought for Hitler? And in what other ways can they influence the Canadian parliament? If the Speaker won’t say, he should go.
No, this doesn’t mean he should be prosecuted, but I hope we can all agree he should never be praised for his war participation, and should not have been in the parliament gallery in the first place. He is a guy who should have sat down and shut up for his whole, long life.
Gin & Tonic
@Barney: My understanding is that he is a constituent of the Speaker and was there at his invitation.
Shalimar
@faustusnotes: I have no idea what he said that you’re interpeting for us, but there is zero chance Ponomarenko self-identified as a “Nazi”. That is not a word he would choose, whatever ideology he follows.
Andrya
@Gin & Tonic: Yes, but somebody brought him to the Speaker’s attention- and it now appears with deliberate attempt to deceive. Only a really expert military historian would know that “1st Ukrainian Division” was SS. I certainly didn’t know.
That somebody needs to be named and shamed.
Barney
Well, the Speaker has now resigned: Canada’s Speaker Anthony Rota resigns after Nazi in parliament row – BBC News
Gin & Tonic
@Barney: So we can all put this behind us, eh?
faustusnotes
@Shalimar: Perhaps you should dig a little deeper, and pay a little more attention to your news sources. He’s proud of his Azov battalion affiliations, and advertised them on Twitter. This apparently doesn’t disqualify him from being used as a much-loved source on this and other blogs.
G&T it wasn’t a deliberate attempt to deceive, the guy was vetted. Do you understand how Westminster systems work, and have any guesses about why Trudeau hasn’t turned up to question time for two days? It’s because he knew, and he can’t mislead parliament when asked.
It’s also not being put aside – Jewish groups in Canada are calling for the full release of the commission of inquiry into the Nazis Canada welcomed after the war, and Poland is calling for the guy’s deportation. I guess those Jewish groups have more principles than you.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
Lordy, I read the Chinese Balloon piece on that site, and “faustusnotes” is the type for whom the warning “don’t believe everything you think” was made for. (Basic metacognition: for every thought, assign an estimated probability that it is true.)
For instance, transiting the continental US can involve cutting a corner (NW or much less likely SW, or a dip from Canada into the USA and back). Or transiting most of Canada and then Maine.
The media frenzy was driven by Republican propagandists; the military press briefings[1] were fine, though a bit paranoid. The shootdown over water was to collect the large surveillance package so that the balloon + sensors could be actually characterized with in detail; this was done, with a report recently released (I have not read, TBH)
Without getting into the bits about Nazi insignia. That person needs to read e.g. 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election and/or Russian Eliminationalst Rhetoric Against Ukraine – a Collection, and actually read them, not do a typical tankie dismissal of the later and its accumulation of links to original sources due to the venue. (Such dismissals are echo chamber stuff. [2])
[1] Read these two just now: Feb 3 2023 Feb 8 2023
[2] Echo chambers and epistemic bubbles (C. Thi Nguyen, Episteme 17 (2):141-161 (2020)) (pdf download button at link)
faustusnotes
@Bill Arnold: It seems you’ve done more diligence on me, a random commenter, than on any of the “journalists” and politicians you rely on for information. For example, you cite Patrick Ryder, who was strategic communications planner for the coalition provisional authority in Iraq from March to July 2004. That was the height of the Abu Ghraib scandal. That man is a war criminal and a liar, who was paid to tell the media that everything was okay while your country was torturing and murdering prisoners in an illegal occupation and the country was being plundered by a dirty clique of mercenaries and gangster capitalists. If that man tells you the sky is blue you need to open your window and check, because he lies like other people breathe, and he’s paid to do it. But here you are citing him as if he has anything honest to tell you.
If Ron deSantis were still in the military, and fronted up to the cameras in a uniform, you’d believe everything he told you. What does that say about your credulity?