Reporting from Barak Ravid:
Hamas says Israel refused to extend the pause in fighting by another day in return for the release of 7 women and children and 3 bodies. Hamas said Israel rejected the offer even though Hamas made clear thst these are all the women and children it was able to locate
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 30, 2023
Hamas' military wing issues a statement calling on its members to go on high alert and prepare for resumption of hostilities and to maintain high alert until a statement about the extension of the cease fire is released
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 30, 2023
Israeli officials say Hamas proposed via mediators to release less than 10 hostages or to release hostages that are not women & children. The Israeli officials said that if Hamas doesn't produce a list that includes 10 women & children by 7am local time, the fighting will resume
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 30, 2023
As I’ve written numerous times over the past week, eventually Sinwar was going to run out of time because his forces do not have control of all the hostages, let alone all the women and children hostages. It appears that reckoning is now imminent.
Now we wait to see what Israel does in a little over an hour.
Updated at 12:02 AM EST:
Israeli official says Gaza ceasefire is extended after Israel recieved its demands regarding the release of hostages
— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 30, 2023
Open thread!
Manyakitty
Terrible. Hard to see this as anything other than losers all around.
Urza
I figured Israel would stop when there wasn’t enough hostages left to care about. Bibi can’t survive in peacetime now.
Ohio Mom
Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.
Adam L Silverman
@Manyakitty: There will be no winners here. No one will be triumphantly right.
Planetjanet
@Adam L Silverman: That is so deeply true.
Devore
interesting, downbeat article from Ganz this week on the situation. With an unhappy ending
“There must be a political solution — God knows what it is.”
https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/israel-has-already-lost
Jinchi
Sorry if you’ve answered this question before, but if Sinwar doesn’t have control of all the hostages, are there other groups that do?
Adam L Silverman
@Jinchi: I have, but that’s okay. PIJ Has some. Gazan criminal gangs have others. And it was reported yesterday that Hamas traded some. That Hamas only ever had about 40 or so of the women and children was always one of the primary failure points of the truce.
Another Scott
HCR’s Letter today:
It’s always been about Bibi protecting his political future and staying out of prison.
Peace and comfort to the innocents.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Actually, in this case it’s Hamas doesn’t have the hostages to trade. I’ve only been explaining this for the better part of a week that whenever they ran out, the war was going to resume. Is Bibi a self serving asshole? Without a doubt. But as soon as the last hostage that would be released was released no one in the war cabinet – not Bibi, not Ganz, not Gallant – was going to just stop fighting. Remember Gallant is more extreme than Bibi and Ganz is more hawkish and in favor of using force
Hamas has agency too. As does the PIJ and the Gazan criminal gangs. Sinwar gambled. He repeatedly tried to demonstrate and display dominance. That he was in control, not Bibi, not Biden, not the Emir of Qatar. His gamble has failed. Unfortunately it is not his time that has run out as a result. It is the Gazans.
Shalimar
Tough shit for the families of those 7. “Sorry your relatives had to die, but we only accept groups of 10.”
Adam L Silverman
A bit of good news:
Adam L Silverman
Adam L Silverman
I am very glad to have been wrong. At least for the next 24 hours.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, I saw reports / speculation a while ago (in addition to your updates) that Hamas didn’t have all the hostages too. And we’ve heard Bibi himself say that the pause wasn’t going to last longer than 10 days no matter what. But I hadn’t seen the information HCR noted today and thought I would pass it along.
It’s easy for players to find a reason to leave an agreement when they didn’t want to be in the agreement in the first place.
Thanks.
[eta:] Good news on the extension. I’m sure that Biden and Blinken were burning up the phone lines…
Cheers,
Scott.
way2blue
Adam. Thanks always for your insights on how this intractable crisis may play out—even if they’re mostly bleak..
A question: What would be the motivation of these other extremist groups holding hostages to keep the hostages? What is their end game? I had the sense that Hamas hoped to trigger a larger conflict beyond the sporadic drone strikes coming from Yemen or flare of random senseless attacks against both Jewish and Arab people in Europe and the U.S. With that hope fading (?)—what’s next? Once Gaza is all rubble—then what? I’m not comprehending a strategy on either side?
MobiusKlein
@way2blue:
Is Hamas’s strategy to create 10,000 martyrs to fuel the next generation of followers?
Adam L Silverman
@way2blue: PIJ’s is likely similar to Hamas’s. The criminal gangs is most likely the hope for ransom.
Adam L Silverman
@MobiusKlein: One of their political leaders stated on the 7th or 8th of October, and I’m paraphrasing here, that the Palestinians were a nation of martyrs and they would willingly make more.
sab
@Adam L Silverman: Yikes. And I often think our political leaders suck. Gazan leadership thinks it will be useful for most of them to die.
Thus proving Gaza is not currently a democracy, although many argue that Gazans chose this 17 years ago. Hint: one election 17 years ago isn’t indicative of a democracy.
sab
Others didn’t help, but no one did more harm to his peoples’ cause than Sirhan Sirhan.
Lesson learned: Don’t assasinate people. If you feel driven to do this, you probably are not informed enough to do it intelligently. You will just stir up the wrong people.
Princess
One maybe odd thing — they released two Israeli-Russian hostages yesterday as a side deal. Haaretz pointed out they could have released them today to make up the numbers of the Israeli ten and took it as a sign that Hamada DID have enough women and children for another day. So was Hamas bluffing earlier when it said it had only seven? God, it’s all so awful. The wicked benefit from this mess and the well intentioned suffer.
Princess
@MobiusKlein: my theory has always been that Hamas sees all of Gaza as expendable and easily replaced by overseas Palestinians and others once the country extends from the river to the sea. I also expect they’d win in a landslide if an election could be held in the Palestinian Territories today. Im obvs just talking out my ass here — I have no expertise
charon
@sab:
The man’s name is simply Sirhan. “Sirhan Sirhan” is the consequence of ignorant cops not understanding how Arab names work.
Geminid
@Princess: Hamas may expect “only” another 14,000 civilians to die. That might be enough to severely degrade support for Israel in the West, which was one of their strategic goals on October 7.
So far though, Germany, France and most other EU countries have basically sided Israel in this conflict. Their governments decry the excessive civilian casualties, but they’re not recalling ambassadors or threatening sanctions.
That could change, but right now these countries and the US seem to expect a renewed Israeli offensive, and they do not back a permanent ceasefire at this point.
Without a ceasefire, Hamas’s main hope could be to inflict heavy losses on the IDF. Hamas and its allies say Hamas did this during the first phase of the invasion, but Israel says their losses were at the lower end of of the projected range. One thing seems certain: when this truce ends, there will be intense fighting that will go on for days if not weeks.
A Good Woman
@Adam L Silverman:
Ghazi Hamad in this interview on Lebanon tv.