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War for Ukraine Day 541: (Some of) You Have Questions, I (May) Have Answers

by Adam L Silverman|  August 18, 20236:43 pm| 49 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, Military, Open Threads, Russia, Silverman on Security, War, War in Ukraine

Last night in comments, Dr. Jackyll and Ms. Deride asked:

I usually stay out of these threads because I have no expertise on any relevant topic, but one thing that comes up over and over has been nagging at me.

You have said repeatedly and forcefully that we ought to take “Never again” seriously, which would mean trying to stop genocides in the making and punishing their perpetrators.  What would it look like, as a matter of foreign and military policy, if we (U.S. and allies) actually did that?  As to Ukraine, I can’t think of anything that would help much short of treating Ukraine as a de facto member of NATO entitled to the full benefits of Article 5.  As to the rest of the world, I can’t even begin to imagine how it would work.

Genocide is a relatively new word, but what it describes is as old as recorded history.  Many past wars, both religious and secular, were genocidal in purpose and intent, and if they failed to achieve actual genocide it was usually only for lack of means.  Today, because advances in communications and technology have allowed us to see “everything everywhere all at once,” it feels as if there’s more genocide going on than ever before, but that’s probably an illusion.  That perception also makes it easy for us to think the problem of stopping genocide is insoluble and just give up trying.

Obviously, I have no suggestions what to do about any of this.  If you thought anyone in power were inclined to take “Never again” as seriously as you do, what practical steps would you propose that they take?

This is an excellent question. I think we can break the answer down into two categories. Things we can and should be doing that are non-kinetic and non-lethal that demonstrates why engaging in a genocide would be a bad idea. This basically would fit into concepts of deterrence. For instance, had we pre-positioned a V Corps, 1st Armored Division plussed up with several additional brigade combat teams (BCTS), moved US Navy and Marine floats into key strategic locations, repositioned strategic aviation assets, and began moving the US defense manufacturing, as well as that of our NATO allies, onto a war footing we might have deterred this nightmare. Similarly, if we began ramping up the training – such as for the F-16s – last summer, that option would be coming online now, rather than being estimated as coming online in late spring/early summer 2024. By not rapidly moving to increase our and our allies ability to supply the Ukrainians and get them training that will take months to a year, we have not provided them with what they need right now to stop the genocide. This is all short of putting our own personnel in theater to fight alongside the Ukrainians. Especially as all the reporting from January and February 2022 made it clear that the US had known for months that the re-invasion was coming. We wasted important time. We are still wasting it. And this is before we get to the really crucial part of the questions, which is the one that leads to kinetic response. If genocide is, indeed, so far outside the norms, if it is the type of extraordinary activity that requires an extraordinary response, then if we are never going to ever consider actually directly intervening, then we need to just own up to the fact that we don’t mean it, we’re not going to actually do anything to stop them, and stop using the expression.

Here is President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump.

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We are preparing powerful things to strengthen our state, our warriors – address of President of Ukraine

18 August 2023 – 21:35

Dear Ukrainians, I wish you good health!

Today is Friday, but it’s such a week that it’s too early to sum up the working days.

We are preparing powerful things for Ukraine, strengthening our state, our warriors.

Today and this week in general, it is the main task. Weapons for our warriors. New opportunities for our defense. New support packages from our partners.

We are doing everything so that on the eve of the Independence Day of our country, it can be said that Ukraine has taken another step towards the circle of the strongest states in the world.

Our team is currently working particularly intensively.

You will see the news for Ukraine. We prepare them with our neighbors in the EU. And also in those regions of Europe where our cooperation with the states has not yet been sufficient. And, of course, with our European partners, with whom we have already proved more than once that European leadership in defending freedom is of global importance.

By the way, we have already had important diplomatic successes this week.

The G7 Declaration on security guarantees for Ukraine: as of today, 18 states have joined.

The Peace Formula: already 63 diplomatic missions are working to implement the points of the Formula. It is crucial that the Peace Formula gradually unites the world majority based on our respect for international law and the UN Charter.

The European Union: we are trying our best to make Ukraine ready for the opening of membership negotiations this year.

Today, the day started with a meaningful conference call. As always, the front is the first question. Military reports. The situation is on the front line. Reports of government officials regarding the supply of weapons and ammunition. The report of the Security Service of Ukraine regarding military commissioners and collaborators… Separately, I listened to the report of the Border Guard Service, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, intelligence regarding the attitude towards our citizens – immigrants who are in different countries, and regarding visa regimes. The things that citizens of Ukraine actually face in the visa issue.

Managers in charge of these issues received appropriate tasks. The rights of Ukrainian citizens must be guaranteed.

And one more. Next week is the time of important events for Ukraine. We will not lose a single day of preparation. We will not miss any result for Ukraine. We work every day. Every day we add strength to Ukraine. And I thank everyone who does the same! For Ukraine – only strength!

Glory to all our warriors! Glory to everyone who works for victory! For the sake of freedom and independence!

Glory to Ukraine!

russians are vocal about their piety. Yet they continue to systematically destroy Orthodox churches in Ukraine. The most recent example is the Ascension Church in Dniprovske, Kherson region. russian shelling "demilitarized" it.
📷 Kherson Diocese of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine pic.twitter.com/KR0pLjLJpt

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) August 18, 2023

Just a note, I have seen people speculating elsewhere that the US and our allies and partners have engaged in a bit of maskirovka of our own. That we set up a secret F-16 training program for the Ukrainians and, as a result, the F-16s are going to arrive in short order and be set to purpose against the Russian re-invaders. Some of this is referencing reporting about two Ukrainian pilots who had done some familiarization training on the F-16s back in Spring 2023 to assess what the actual training would need to look like.

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. undergoing an assessment to determine how long it could take to train them to fly attack aircraft, including F-16 fighter jets, according to two congressional officials and a senior U.S. official.

The Ukrainians’ skills are being evaluated on simulators at a U.S. military base in Tucson, Arizona, the officials said, and they may soon be joined by more of their fellow pilots.

U.S. authorities have approved bringing up to 10 more Ukrainian pilots to the U.S. for further assessment as early as this month, the officials said.

Their arrival marks the first time Ukrainian pilots have traveled to the U.S. to have their skills evaluated by American military trainers. Officials said the effort has twin goals: to improve the pilots’ skills and to evaluate how long a proper training program could take.

“The program is about assessing their abilities as pilots so we can better advise them on how to use capabilities they have and we have given them,” an administration official said.

Two administration officials stressed that it wasn’t a training program and said that the Ukrainians would not be flying any aircraft during their time here.

So when you see Ukrainian social media posts like this:

It was once thought to be impossible. F-16 in Ukraine. Soon.

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) August 18, 2023

And this:

nice pic.twitter.com/eQL8XFf00d

— Ukrainian Air Force (@KpsZSU) August 18, 2023

Please keep in mind what we’ve been discussing: 1) the actual training program has not been developed; 2) a training site has not been established; 3) the Ukrainian pilots and crews are just being selected for English language training, which is necessary because everything on the F-16 is in English; 4) the US permission for transfer only came this week; and 5) all we have is an agreement among our NATO allies to build a training site, develop and deliver a curriculum, and that once that’s done, the US will allow F-16s to be transferred to Ukraine.

I wish this wasn’t the actual reality, but until or unless someone can produce actual evidence that we’ve been running a secret F-16 training program, this is what we’re dealing with. Unfortunately, extraordinary truth claims require extraordinary evidence.

russians are vocal about their piety. Yet they continue to systematically destroy Orthodox churches in Ukraine. The most recent example is the Ascension Church in Dniprovske, Kherson region. russian shelling "demilitarized" it.
📷 Kherson Diocese of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine pic.twitter.com/KR0pLjLJpt

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) August 18, 2023

Yeesh, this guy:

Jake Sullivan, when asked if WaPo report on US intel assessment on Ukraine’s counteroffensive is accurate: “I'm not going to speak to intelligence reports… we're doing everything we can to support Ukraine, and its counter offensive” pic.twitter.com/WpWOGkhiUN

— John Hudson (@John_Hudson) August 18, 2023

You’re people are leaking doom and gloom to reporters and this is the best you can do? Especially in light of these new anonymous US official statements today:

US officials complain here that Ukrainians are "casualty-averse." Who has done all the fighting and dying in this conflict? https://t.co/V4BrJX9ap8

— Josh Kovensky (@JoshKovensky) August 18, 2023

In recent weeks, Ukraine has shifted its battlefield tactics, returning to its old ways of wearing down Russian forces with artillery and long-range missiles instead of plunging into minefields under fire.

American officials are worried that Ukraine’s adjustments will race through precious ammunition supplies, which could benefit President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and disadvantage Ukraine in a war of attrition. But Ukrainian commanders decided the pivot reduced casualties and preserved their frontline fighting force.

American officials say they fear that Ukraine has become casualty averse, one reason it has been cautious about pressing ahead with the counteroffensive. Almost any big push against dug-in Russian defenders protected by minefields would result in huge numbers of losses.

And we’re back to me ranting! The US has dribbled out the necessary material. The US refused, out of fear, to do anything more than that. And now anonymous US officials are complaining that 1) the Ukrainians are not going to achieve their objectives; 2) the Ukrainians need to speed things up because if they don’t it might negatively effect future support; and now 3) the Ukrainians are risk averse.

And the best you can fucking do is say “I’m not going to comment.”

I realize that this is the alternative, which I also ranted about last night:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1692582052019732719

But the range of our potential national security responses has to be better than “everyone else is on their own because we like authoritarian leaders now” on the GOP side and what the Biden administration is doing. Yes, I’m glad the latter are doing what they’re doing and we’re not watching how a GOP administration would screw this up so badly that Putin would not only have Ukraine by now, but also the Baltics and Alaska. But if we either cannot or will not actually do better than we’re doing – and, yes and again, we could be doing much worse – than we can at least do better at our strategic communication!

This is how you do better strategic communication:

https://twitter.com/AdmTonyRadakin_/status/1692586287453118533

And here’s Tatarigami’s, a Ukrainian Army Reserve officer, take on the WaPo reporting that Ukraine will fail to achieve its objectives in the Summer/Fall 2023 campaign:

https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1692599839085715568

I’ve received inquiries from multiple people requesting my opinion on the recent WAPO article titled “U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal.”

The reality is, I can’t comment on it, as evaluating the true attritional rate is exceedingly complex. Moreover, even if we were to possess accurate and comprehensive loss data (which neither side has), making a precise prediction about the outcome remains elusive due to the numerous unknown variables in the equation.

I understand that my answer might be unsatisfactory for many.
On a different note, I’d like to share that I’m currently in the process of crafting multi-part threads about Lancet’s. Hopefully I will be able to release those this week.

Enerhodar:

https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1692591414306128299

Nova Kakhovka:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1692646384946524513

Novorossiysk:

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1692446302746136836

Moscow:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1692382349718372750

https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1692420622570152378

https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1692467601031504010

– Why did the drone return to ‘Moscow City’ once again?

– It’s a special operation – expect the unexpected. You see, ‘Moscow City’ serves as a prominent landmark due to its tall and stationary structures. Such locations are more accessible targets for these drones,” explained Colonel-General Kartopolov

That’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron!

A new video from Patron’s official TikTok!

@patron__dsns

Друзіііі! Нова чудова серія вже на моєму YouTube каналі😍 Мерщій дивитися!

♬ оригінальний звук – Patron_official

Here’s the machine translation of the caption:

Friends! A new wonderful episode is already on my YouTube channel 😍 Hurry up and watch!

Open thread!

War for Ukraine Day 541: (Some of) You Have Questions, I (May) Have AnswersPost + Comments (49)

News Roundup

by WaterGirl|  August 18, 20234:52 pm| 219 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

Seems like a slow news day today!

Are you guys willing to help list all the news we’ve gotten in the past week, even though we didn’t get much news today?

Open thread.

 

News RoundupPost + Comments (219)

PSA: Be Very Careful Around SanDisk/WD Portable SSDs

by Tom Levenson|  August 18, 20232:24 pm| 104 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Readership Capture, Tech News & Issues, Technology

I’ve long used Western Digital and SanDisk drives, moving with them from their spinning days to the solid state era. I now have three portable SSDs acting as the Time Machine backups for my desktop and for my own and my wife’s laptops. And I’m about to buy their replacements (or rather, the second disks in an alternating back up scheme).

PSA: Be Very Careful Around SanDisk/WD Portable SSDs

Why?

This is why:

…Numerous owners of the drives, including Ars Technica’s own Lee Hutchinson, encountered a problem where the drives seemingly erased data and became unreadable. Lee saw two drives fill approximately halfway before showing read and write errors. Disconnecting and reconnecting showed the drive was unformatted and empty. Wiping and formatting didn’t resolve things.

Complaints about the drives littered SanDisk’s forums and Reddit (examples here, here, here, and here) for at least four months before Western Digital released a firmware fix in late May. The page for the update claims products currently shipping are not affected. But the company never noted customers’ lost data claims.

It did, however, name the affected drives:

  • SanDisk Extreme Portable 4TB (SDSSDE61-4T00)

  • SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable 4TB (SDSSDE81-4T00)

  • SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable 2TB (SDSSDE81-2T00)

  • SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable 1TB (SDSSDE81-1T00)

  • Western Digital My Passport 4TB (WDBAGF0040BGY)Subsequent reports from The Verge, which received a replacement SSD, and some Reddit users, though, claimed the drives were still broken. Western Digital didn’t answer requests for comment about newfound grievances.

I’ve never bought anything terribly large, so at least the sunk cost isn’t too great, but I do have a couple of the listed 1 TB problem drives. For now, I’ve switched over to some old spinning disks (Western Digital ones, as it happens)… but they’re old and  the reason I switched to the SSDs was because of the alleged greater mean time between failures.

All this by way of saying be careful: any data you care about should (in my belt/suspenders opinion) enjoy multiple backups, and if you are relying on SanDisk/WD and, like me, have been oblivious to this long-running issue, take a look at your drives and protect yourself.

This thread is as open as the Linux kernel.

image: Adolph von Menzel, Omnibus (memory), 1848

PSA: Be Very Careful Around SanDisk/WD Portable SSDsPost + Comments (104)

Thursday Night Open Thread: Think Positive!

by Anne Laurie|  August 17, 20239:33 pm| 166 Comments

This post is in: Elections 2024, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, Something To Think About

We’re all ‘realists’ now — anything can happen, and the only certainty in this fallen world is the eventual heat death of the universe. But sometimes, maybe, can we Democrats allow ourselves a little optimism, as a treat?

I have a suspicion. Not a prediction. Or maybe it's a prediction but I won't frame it as such, because I like to be cautious. The basic fundamentals of American political life have shifted and will continue to shift into 2024. All in the Democrats' favor.

— Magdi Jacobs (@magi_jay) August 17, 2023

I'm not sure how else to say this, but I do not think that disaffected youth voting will be as it has been in other elections, like 2000 or 2016. No matter how "old" Joe Biden is. It's not going to be the same.

— Magdi Jacobs (@magi_jay) August 17, 2023

I am not complacent. They can still win. They are too dangerous to take with a grain of salt. But I feel it–this shift in the political atmosphere–and instead of saying, "Oh maybe we who'll have a Dem primary ??" maybe we should just start saying, "we're stronger than they are"

— Magdi Jacobs (@magi_jay) August 17, 2023

I also don’t want to get burned again, but I legitimately think things are changing more deeply than the forecasters have any incentive to realize.

— The Fig Economy (@figgityfigs) August 17, 2023

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Odds Biden will win according to:

My heart: 100%

My head: 300%

My PSTD: 50/50

— LadyGrey 🇦🇲🇺🇦🇺🇸 (@TWLadyGrey) August 17, 2023

morning in, and I cannot stress this enough, america https://t.co/9ZhxZyzpOL

— the abbot of unreason (an archaeologist) 🥬 (@merovingians) August 17, 2023

Thursday Night Open Thread: Think Positive!Post + Comments (166)

And Now the Night Shift Gets a Chance to Help! (We Did It!)

by WaterGirl|  August 17, 20238:31 pm| 58 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

Update on Friday morning:

I got a report from ghostcat this morning – she has received $3,006, so we met our goal and have her Airbnb covered for 2 months while she plots out a plan for more permanent digs, and puts that all in motion.

Balloon Juice peeps are the best.  Thanks, everyone!


Multiple people in the morning thread suggested that I re-post the information about ghostcat.

On Tuesday I wrote this:

Calling all BJ peeps who are organized and methodical, good at problem-solving and have familiarity with New Mexico and particularly the Las Cruces area.

We have a BJ peep whose new apartment fell through because it failed to pass some sort of inspection.– she was supposed to move in this weekend and is in kind of a panic.  She has 4 cats as her family, and she is worried that she will have to give them up if she can’t come up with a solution.

In ghostcat’s own words:

I’m also autistic and my brain has limited executive functions for planning complicated things like moving long distance, and I find it hard to talk to people on the phone. There are too many moving pieces for me to handle right now. I’m having endless panic attacks over this and finding it difficult to cope.

There were lots of excellent, helpful responses in that thread, and I want to thank everyone who made suggestions or supplied information – that was all very helpful to ghostcat!

There were also a ton of people who offered to chip in some funds if that would help the situation.

And now we have a plan!  $3,000 from Balloon Juice will turn our plan into a reality.   BJ peeps sent her $1,800 today, and $1,200 more is needed to finalize her housing.

So here’s a more detailed update:

More than funds, what ghostcat really needed initially was some help thinking things through because she was so overwhelmed, help with making a plan while her brain was overwhelmed with anxiety, help with identifying options, and maybe even knowing she wasn’t alone in the boat.  And you guys did that; all that’s left is the boost for covering the Airbnb, and the job that is supposed to resume on Sept 5.

Asking for funds wasn’t my first intention with the post, but now that we have a plan, funds will be most useful in implementing it.

Taking our sage advice :-) ghostcat is going to stay put in Las Cruces for while she figures out the next steps.  We have secured a 2-month stay at an Airbnb that was considerably less expensive than even the Extended Stay hotel, where it was going to cost more to have the kitties there than the cost of the room itself!

Best of all, ghostcat gets to keep her 4 kitties with her, which was a major goal.

ghostcat has arranged for a Pod to store her furniture and for a person to get her stuff packed up (physical injury makes that tricky right now) and she is in the process of arranging for someone to haul away the junk she wants to leave behind.

If all goes as planned, her job will start again on Sept 5, at which point the proof of employment – requited by nearly all renters – shouldn’t be an issue, and she will have 5 weeks left at the Airbnb to figure out where she is going to go next and secure housing there.

Tomorrow morning, she moves out of her apartment and into the Airbnb.

I would guess that ghostcat’s anxiety level has moved from 15 (on a scale of 10) to about 9, which is a great improvement, but still a very tough place to be.

Details for ghostcat contributions thru Zelle or PayPal.

Use only the email address to make a donation – do not enter ghostcat for the name or you will be donating to some unknown person planet earth who is probably wondering why she is suddenly getting money from total strangers!

Open thread.

Update at 10 pm.

I just got a phone call from ghostcat – she has received $2,500 today, with $700 of that coming in after I put up this post.  Jackals are good people!

And Now the Night Shift Gets a Chance to Help! (We Did It!)Post + Comments (58)

War for Ukraine Day 540: All of Ukraine Was Under Raid Alert Tonight

by Adam L Silverman|  August 17, 20237:42 pm| 33 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, Military, Open Threads, Russia, Silverman on Security, War, War in Ukraine

(Image by NEIVANMADE)

Fourth nationwide air raid alarm as MiG-31K jets take off in Russia. Think of mothers kissing their children goodnight, not knowing what this night will bring them. pic.twitter.com/mh7LsZkzCm

— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) August 17, 2023

Fortunately, things have quieted down over the past two hours or so:

Here is President Zelensyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump.

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We are building the arsenal of the free world together – address by the President of Ukraine

17 August 2023 – 22:58

Good health to you, fellow Ukrainians!

A brief report on this day.

First. The frontline. I started the day with a conference call with the military, intelligence, and government officials. The situation on the frontline. Defense of positions, advancement – our offensive actions. Supplies for the warriors. We are actively shaping the content of new defense packages from our partners. More news to come.

Second. Today I would like to highlight our cooperation with Germany. Step by step, our agreements with Mr. Chancellor Scholz are being implemented. Two new IRIS-T launching stations have been delivered to Ukraine. This is a powerful and much-needed air defense system. Thank you, Germany, for your help in protecting us from Russian terror!

Third. Traditionally, in St. Sophia of Kyiv, I accepted credentials from new ambassadors who arrived in Ukraine. Germany, Indonesia, Sweden, Chile, Colombia, Peru. Of course, I spoke with all the new ambassadors today.

Fourth. Several substantive meetings with the government. A separate meeting with Prime Minister Shmyhal. Logistics for Ukraine, for our manufacturers. Export issues. Additional support for our defense. Strengthening Ukraine together with our neighbors in the European Union.

Then, an expanded meeting with the Prime Minister, the Ministry of Strategic Industries, the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and the relevant deputy heads of the Office. We discussed the Defense Industries Forum. We are planning this event for the autumn. It will be the first time such a large-scale event will be held at the state level. Ukrainian and foreign arms manufacturers. Our power. The power of our partners. The entire world, which is interested in ensuring that international law and humanity have an appropriate arsenal of defense against any terror… The world can be united by this format of cooperation as well.

We plan the forum to be the first track record of our defense industry. To demonstrate what we already know how to produce. To consider what we can add to our capabilities, in particular through the creation of new production facilities in Ukraine, through localization with partners. And, of course, we have to give a new security impetus to everyone in the world who values their statehood and freedom as much as we do. Nations have the right to defense. We are building the arsenal of the free world together.

The fifth one for today. As always. I am grateful to all those who are fighting for Ukraine and working for its defense. Thank you to each and every one! I would like to particularly mention the warriors of the 117th separate mechanized brigade. Orikhiv direction. Thank you for your strength, warriors!

There is much to be grateful for to the special forces who defend the northern regions of our country. Junior Sergeant Kyrylo Melnyk and Captain Artem Chastikov – thank you guys!

The 3rd operational brigade of the National Guard, the 66th separate howitzer artillery division of the 406th brigade and the 3rd artillery division of the 44th brigade. Thank you all, warriors, for your accuracy and ability to destroy the occupiers. And it is once again an honor for me to recognize the warriors of the 36th separate marine brigade. Thank you!

Glory to all our heroes!

And a few other things.

Today, by my decree, the NSDC’s decision on the results of the inspection of military commissars and the work of recruitment centers in general has been put into effect. The leadership will be completely replaced. Warriors who have actually been in combat, who really understand how and who should be selected for our defense and security forces – these are the warriors who will manage the work of territorial recruitment centers. This system needs dignity. This system needs rationality. This system needs the ability to provide the frontline with people who can reinforce our defense.

In every combat brigade I visited this week – 16 in total – warriors talked about problems with recruitment. These problems begin with the way military enlistment offices work. Their work must change. And it will. Thanks to combat officers.

I have just signed one of the key laws that Ukraine needs to start negotiations with the European Union on our country’s accession. Negotiations are to start this year. The law guarantees a transparent, professional and fair selection of judges of the Constitutional Court. Our country is one step closer to joining the European Union.

Glory to Ukraine!

Interestingly, The Kyiv Independent has just published a very, very deep dive investigation into the EU’s inability to ramp up its defense manufacturing sector. Here are some excerpts:

Key findings:

  • Over a year into Russia’s full-scale war, neither Ukraine nor the EU has implemented any solid plans for ammunition production ramp-up
  • EU member states’ governments hardly sign any long-term contracts with producers, while the “wait-and-see” arms industry is reluctant to take financial risks
  • Ukraine’s arms makers also complain about a lack of state support yet scale up production under existing capacities anyway
  • Ukraine uses from 3-10 times (depending on the intensity of fighting) less ammunition than Russia does, but its ammunition expenditure is still several times higher than Europe’s production rates
  • National protectionism of member states and the bureaucracy of the EU prevented rapid decision-making to tackle ammunition shortages
  • The lack of unified ammunition types in the EU forces soldiers on the front line to alter their ammunition and adapt weapons, which can delay or jeopardize operations

As Ukraine was throwing all its forces into counteroffensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv and southern Kherson oblasts last fall, soldiers defending the eastern front struggled with ammunition shortages.

When long-anticipated military aid arrived at one brigade stationed in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas front, the soldiers were over the moon. But disappointment soon followed when they realized that the supplied ammunition was useless: The Finnish 120mm mortar bombs wouldn’t fit into the Italian Mod. 63 mortar, despite them being of the same caliber.

Taras, the commander of the brigade’s mortar battery, was tasked to find a way out of the situation. Ten people used grinders to manually trim all eight tail fins on each mortar bomb to fit the Italian mortar. There were 400 bombs to trim.

“My infantry was relying on me. At the time when we received these bombs, we had nothing else from the brigade artillery left,” said Taras, who doesn’t reveal his full name due to fear of retaliation for publicly complaining about the supplies.

Taras’s story points to two major issues the Ukrainian military has been facing.

One is the lack of consistency of arms across the European Union. Ammunition from various producers of the same caliber differs to the extent that soldiers call it a “zoo” for how messy it is.

Since Ukraine gets arms from various countries and suppliers, it creates ammunition chaos and affects the performance of the military: Soldiers have to make time to weigh incoming munitions and manually grind them to fit their launchers, which can get in the way of military missions.

The second problem is a shortage of ammunition on the front lines. Austerity forces Ukraine to save up munitions while defending or building up for an attack by giving soldiers less than usual, multiple high-level sources close to Ukraine’s military leadership told the Kyiv Independent.

Ukraine’s ongoing counteroffensive started later than planned due to weapons supply delays, President Volodymyr Zelensky told CNN on July 5.

Russia is steps ahead of Ukraine in ammunition capacities. According to Ukrainian military and government sources, Russia can fire up to 10 times as much ammunition as Ukraine does during high-intensity fighting. On average, Russia fires 60,000 rounds of ammunition at Ukraine a day, whereas Ukraine fires 20,000, according to Ukrainian officials’ public comments and off-the-record conversations with them.

While Russia makes use of its large stock of ammunition, both Ukraine and the EU have so far failed to scale up ammunition production to meet battlefield demands.

The Kyiv Independent and its partners spoke with dozens of insiders, arms producers, diplomats, the Ukrainian government and military sources, and soldiers on the front line.

This cross-border investigation found that national protectionism, misjudgment, and indecisiveness among EU countries have obstructed the bloc from finding a swift and collective approach to tackling ammunition shortages which had a direct impact on Ukraine’s performance on the battlefield. Both governments and their defense industries have proved reluctant to take risks investing in arms production, including jointly with Ukraine.

Ukraine’s own defense industry started producing ammunition only about two months into Russia’s full-scale war.

And it faces similar problems to those of the EU: it’s too slow, the government and the industry blame each other for failing to take the lead in scaling up production, and a strategy for future ammunition programs is still a work in progress.

While Ukraine and the West fail to produce more, Russia is trying to disrupt Ukraine’s production and destroy what it already has in stock by targeting ammunition depots.

The inability of officials, both domestically and internationally, to ensure Ukraine has enough arms and ammunition leaves the soldiers on the ground with an impossible task: meeting the world’s high expectations of Ukraine’s counteroffensive without the means to do so.

Caught by surprise

The fact that ammunition would eventually run out in the EU warehouses has been self-evident to anyone paying attention from day one of the full-scale invasion, according to officials and experts the Kyiv Independent spoke to.

Ukraine, a country that inherited most of its arms from the Soviet Union, had ammunition of calibers most NATO countries didn’t have. Some Eastern European countries had Soviet-style munition but in limited volumes.

Ukraine’s own stocks were only enough for up to about a month of active fighting, according to multiple top-level sources in Ukraine’s Defense Ministry and Armed Forces. They claim to have informed Western allies about the state of things as early as day one of the full-scale invasion.

Once comprehensive, Ukraine’s stocks had dried up due to a series of explosions in ammunition depots between 2014 to 2018 in Ukraine, as well as the Czech Republic and Bulgaria, countries Ukraine bought Soviet-style ammunition from. The Czech government has openly blamed the explosions on Russia. Ukraine’s State Security Service and Prosecutor General’s Office have investigated the blasts in Ukraine in connection with sabotage, murder, terrorism, and military service negligence. None of the investigations have resulted in convictions yet.

In Ukraine alone, around 210,000 tons of ammunition were destroyed in the attacks – that’s three times as much as the country had used defending itself against Russia’s war in the Donbas and on military training combined in 2014-2018, according to the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) think tank. It’s unclear whether any of the lost ammunition was replenished, or how much was rescued.

While waiting for the American equipment, in 2018, Ukraine ordered 152mm shells from a Ukrainian private company Rubin. It delivered low-quality products, which weren’t approved by the Defense Ministry. These were Ukraine’s only attempts to launch mass production of ammunition before the 2022 invasion.

So when Russia started its all-out war, Ukraine didn’t have reliable ammunition production pipelines and had little left in stock.

Meanwhile, the closest possible sources of ammunition – the EU and the UK – were also short on it.

After years of defense budget cuts and a strategy of keeping ammunition stocks low ever since the Cold War, the EU had little to offer.

According to Admiral Rob Bauer, chairman of the NATO military committee, he told member states’ foreign ministers in mid-March 2022: “We deliver from half-empty warehouses. You have to refill it very quickly.”

“NATO won’t be able to provide Ukraine with lasting support if the war goes on for long,” he recalled saying back then.

Officials and experts in the United Kingdom and Germany later admitted that their own countries only had enough ammunition to last for mere days of high-intensity fighting.

Reluctant to start helping

The West did not rush to start sending arms to Ukraine to help repel Russian aggression. It took days for politicians to decide and weeks to deliver the first batches of Soviet-style military aid to Ukraine, according to diplomats and military sources.

There were a few reasons for the delays.

One was the fear that Ukraine would quickly fall and the arms and ammunition provided by the West would end up in Russian hands, said two high-level Ukrainian diplomatic sources.

Additionally, they said, the EU was scared that Russia would see Europe as a party to the conflict.

“That’s why they didn’t want to help us for a very long time, despite the fact that Russia immediately accused the West of being a party to the war,” according to another source close to Ukraine’s Defense Ministry.

The EU defense industry proved to be more farsighted than politicians.

Nexter, a French munitions company, claims to have bought a few hundred tons of gunpowder a few days after the full-scale Russian invasion.

“We were in constant talks with the French government, especially with its Defense Ministry, which was well aware that the need for ammunition would increase,” said Gabriel Massoni, a spokesperson for Nexter.

According to NAMMO, a Norwegian-Finnish munitions company, it bought extra raw materials days after the invasion. They also claim to have alerted authorities how difficult scaling up production quickly would be, given supply chain issues caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. The company got its first ammunition production contract only about a year later.

Camille Grand, who served as NATO’s assistant secretary general for defense investment until November 2022, said: “We were under the impression that the war would not last long.”

Taking a lifetime to act

Even upon realizing the scale of ammunition shortages, the leadership of the EU and its member states proved to be slow in tackling them.

At the first Ramstein summit, a Ukraine-focused meeting of allied countries at an air base in Germany, on April 26, 2022, the allies decided to give the first big batch of weapons to Ukraine.

“It was very tough before the Ramstein talks, and only after did it start moving at least in some direction, and we started receiving the first pieces of (U.S.-made and provided) M777 and M119 howitzers, which came in together with ammunition,” a Ukrainian military source said.

However, it is not known whether the looming ammunition shortage was addressed at the summit.

The first notable attempt to find a solution came two days later, at NATO’s semi-annual meeting of national armaments directors. There, some member states, for the first time, aired concerns that ammunition stocks could run out, according to Grand, a former top NATO official.

Around that time, it finally became clear to Western leaders that modern warfare still requires high volumes of ammunition despite advances in military technology, according to a source close to Ukraine’s Defense Ministry. “That was a shock to them,” he said.

Much, much, much more at the link!

But wait, there’s video:

The US’s defense manufacturing sector mirrors many of the problems that The Kyiv Independent has identified in its reporting into the EU’s defense manufacturing sector.

There is some good defense manufacturing and logistics news:

Germany updated the list of Delivered military support to Ukraine:
– 2 IRIS-T SLS launchers
– 4,539 rounds 155mm smoke ammunition
– 18 ground surveillance radars GO12
– 4 truck tractor trains 8×8 HX81 and 4 semi-trailers
– 8 load-handling trucks 15thttps://t.co/HudvW2crKM pic.twitter.com/otsslB5Um3

— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) August 17, 2023

The US has approved Denmark and Holland sending F-16s to Ukraine once training is completed. Reuters has the details:

WASHINGTON, Aug 17 (Reuters) – The United States has approved sending F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine from Denmark and the Netherlands to defend against Russian invaders as soon as pilot training is completed, a U.S. official said on Thursday.

Ukraine has actively sought the U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to help it counter Russian air superiority.

Washington gave Denmark and the Netherlands official assurances that the United States will expedite approval of transfer requests for F-16s to go to Ukraine when the pilots are trained, the official said.

Denmark and the Netherlands had recently asked for those assurances. The U.S. must approve the transfer of the military jets from its allies to Ukraine.

A coalition of 11 countries was due to start training Ukrainian pilots to fly the F-16 fighter jets this month in Denmark. Denmark’s acting Defense Minister Troels Poulsen said in July that the country hoped to see “results” from the training in early 2024.

NATO members Denmark and the Netherlands have been leading international efforts to train pilots as well as support staff, maintain aircraft and ultimately enable Ukraine to obtain F-16s for use in its war with Russia.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken sent letters to his Danish and Dutch counterparts assuring them that the requests would be approved, the U.S. official said.

“I am writing to express the United States’ full support for both the transfer of F-16 fighter aircraft to Ukraine and for the training of Ukrainian pilots by qualified F-16 instructors,” Blinken said in a letter to the two officials, a copy of which was seen by Reuters.

Blinken said, “It remains critical that Ukraine is able to defend itself against ongoing Russian aggression and violation of its sovereignty.”

There is one outstanding problem here: NO TRAINING PROGRAM HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED!!!

The Kyiv Independent explains why:

Ukraine will not be able to defend its airspace with U.S. F-16 fighter jets by the coming fall or winter, spokesperson for the Air Force Yurii Ihnat said on Aug. 16.

“It is already obvious that we will not be able to defend Ukraine with F-16s this fall and winter,” Ihnat said.

During the Vilnius NATO summit in July, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov announced the formation of a coalition to provide training for Ukrainian pilots on F-16s. The coalition is made up of 11 NATO member states. The program was set to start in Denmark in August, with plans for establishing a training center in Romania as well.

However, the forthcoming F-16 training has been marked by uncertainties. While the Biden administration has approved the training, it cannot give final authorization until it receives a completed training plan from European leaders.

It’s also still unclear which specific countries will be supplying the F-16 jets to the Ukrainian Air Force. Gaining fluency in the English language presents another challenge  for Ukrainian pilots.

“Significant hopes were pinned on this aircraft, anticipating its integration into the air defense system and its ability to shield us from Russia’s missile and drone terrorism,” Ihnat said.

Nonetheless, Ihnat said that question of training Ukrainian pilots and engineers had “moved forward.”

“In the near future, our pilots will receive training within the member countries of the aviation coalition,” Ihnat said.

No training program, no F-16s. Again, one more time, this is the reason that even if the US was not prepared to provide or allow F-16s to be provided to Ukraine until late summer or early fall of 2023, if a training program had been started a year ago, then the Ukrainians would be ready to fly them on receipt.

The other reason to have adopted a more aggressive timeline is this:

“Rep. DON BACON…a staunch Ukraine supporter…wants to give Kyiv more military aid but only if the final deal includes a guarantee [of ATACMS]. Without that assurance, he sees no point in further depleting US stocks and spending more money to keep Ukraine at a fighting stalemate” https://t.co/wPT9OPaoX2

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) August 17, 2023

We’re now moving into Congressional Republicans saying “what’s the point?” I guarantee that by the 2024 presidential and congressional elections, the GOP position will be to abandon Ukraine to its fate. There will be a few holdouts, mostly GOP senators not up for reelection. But the base of the party, Fox News as well as its imitators, the majority of Republicans running for the House and the GOP nominee, which will be Trump, will all adopt this position. And regardless of what anyone here might hope for or wish to happen, all of this is not only possible, but plausible.

One of the keys at developing effective strategies is to be able to identify that time is a key risk and have appropriate ways and means to mitigate and manage that risk. Assuming that you have more time than you do – as in President Biden will be reelected and the Democrats will have majorities in both chambers of Congress in 2025 – so that there will be time to deal with this in the future is strategic malpractice.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1692203103724937651

Ukrainian Army Colonel Peter Chernyk provides this interesting analysis about the challenges that the Ukrainian military is trying to overcome in their operations in southern Ukraine.

In the information space, one of the totems of the last week is discussions about certain successes of the units of the Defense Forces of Ukraine on the southern bridgehead. At the same time, some participants in the discussions will see that this success is not developing as fast as we would like.

Expert opinion on this issue, the correspondents of the ArmyInform inquired about the military analyst of Colonel Peter Chernyk.

According to him, the main problem of moderate pace of advance of Ukrainian units in this operational direction is that troops have to overcome the classic tri-echelon line of defense.

— What is it? The classic three-chelon line of defense sees the existence of a so-called supply line. These are minefields that can reach up to several kilometers wide, — says Peter Chernyk. — It should be understood that the Russians are very good in this part: they just have a giant number of anti-tank mines. For example, TM-62 — their stocks in rf are calculated in millions.  And a universal mine barrier can scatter mines such as PFM, abundantly sowing the terrain. One «petal» — is already a very dangerous anti-personnel mine. And the mine barrier scatters them 11 thousand for one volley. They have something to change. Up to 5 mines per square meter can now be in the supply area.

Continuing the topic, he says that the second echelon of enemy defense — main line. Where artillery, equipment, personnel are concentrated. The third line — is the rear points of preservation of material means and spare positions. According to Peter Chernik, in order for the Defense Forces units to truly develop success, it is mandatory to create a phenomenon called «prolom», or engineering passes through enemy minefields.

— Is this possible? Probably because we have a pretty good technique. These are American M-58 cars. They can fire a combat « rope» up to 90 meters. In this rope for each meter running is 7.5 kilograms of C-4 explosives. And when it all explodes, such a passage is made 6 meters wide, where the tank passes fully. And so step by step at one point you can make such a move. But it’s a big car. There are also other cars. Based on the tank «Leopard-2». The Germans also provided them to us. They have special «tralas », which cause mines to explode, or dumps that these mines drop in different directions and they remain in this position. These are all convenient targets, especially for enemy artillery. Therefore, it is necessary to destroy their artillery, — he notes.

At the same time, according to Peter Chernyk, the Defense Forces of Ukraine in terms of the destruction of enemy artillery have some obvious successes.

In a year and a half of the war, the average loss of Russians from artillery in a month was within 200 guns. Starting in May — outside 550 units, June — record: 688 barrels and installations. July did not reach the record — a total of 577 artillery barrels.

— I have no doubt that in August we will again show a very solid result, — says Peter Chernik. — With an average of 200 guns, we are almost three times ahead of the extermination rate. The Russian military-industrial complex can remove old Soviet junk from warehouses and repair and put it in the old Soviet junk, in fact, a lot of it. In warehouses in the rf it is outside 10,000.  But the ratio is still within 150 guns in our favor. I must note that the full-time artillery brigade — is within 72 barrels.

The military expert emphasizes that we are ahead of their ability to deliver artillery to Ukraine in terms of destruction almost twice. And this is a very serious indicator, because sooner or later the breaking point will happen. And a number of faults or one large will be made, which will allow to collapse the entire bridgehead and perform classic maneuvers to reach the enemy and enter him in the rear.

And there’s video too!

Robotyne:

Russian "Alligator" meets its match near Robotyne, along Zaporizhzhia axis. pic.twitter.com/AvI78xf3C7

— Maria Avdeeva (@maria_avdv) August 17, 2023

🇺🇦47th Mechanized has another Russian Kamov Ka-52 downed pic.twitter.com/WVern2p6TE

— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) August 17, 2023

And Bakhmut:

Two Russian Ka-52 helis were taken down this morning, one in Zaporizhzhia front shot down by the 47th Brigade, and another one a bit earlier in the Bakhmut front.

Source: https://t.co/s5ETGvfm8J pic.twitter.com/ig9pjzGjc9

— WarTranslated (@wartranslated) August 17, 2023

From Ukrainika Pravda:

Soldiers of a separate mechanized brigade shot down an enemy Ka-52 helicopter in the Zaporizhia region on the morning of August 17 − so this morning the defenders of Ukraine destroyed two Russian “alligators”.

Literally 47 OMBr: “The morning of the soldiers of the 47th separate mechanized brigade began with the destruction of the Russian Ka-52 helicopter in the Robine area, which is on Zaporizhia”.

Details: The enemy “alligator” noticed a fire group of the anti-aircraft missile-artillery division around 07:40 am. The helicopter was knocked down in one start from the MANPADS.

It is reported that on the account of fighters of the 47th brigade – is already the 8th “forever landed Ka-52”, the cost of which reaches $16 million.

Background:

  • Earlier, the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces Mykola Oleshchuk said that the defenders of Ukraine destroyed an enemy Ka-52 strike helicopter in Bakhmutsk direction on the morning of August 17.

Soledar:

JDAM strike on Russian headquarters in Soledad. Video by the 30th brigade. https://t.co/aATRTmcrPz pic.twitter.com/EjzIUDbOTP

— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) August 17, 2023

I’m pretty sure Soledad is a typo for Soledar.

Dmitri has a translation of a Russian colonel’s analysis of the difference between the cluster munitions Russia has been using and the ones Ukraine is now using:

Interesting, a bit long, post here from Russian Colonel Shuvalov discussing the effect of the Ukrainian cluster munitions
and how the Russian equivalents are not nearly as good if exist at all, showing how Shoygu's threats are empty.
(source: https://t.co/Bburalklwy):

"And again… pic.twitter.com/VicMjWwC1r

— WarTranslated (@wartranslated) August 17, 2023

Interesting, a bit long, post here from Russian Colonel Shuvalov discussing the effect of the Ukrainian cluster munitions
and how the Russian equivalents are not nearly as good if exist at all, showing how Shoygu’s threats are empty.
(source: https://t.me/shouvalov/45):

“And again about cluster munitions. It’s hard for me to understand why we need to manipulate statistics if the response we’re getting for showing off results in collossal, real difficulites.

I already wrote about cluster munitions before – https://t.me/shouvalov/20.

Basically, nothing has changed, but a lot needs to be added. Information, now in full measure, reached the authorities that everything was not as it seemed in the initial reports. It is impossible not to take into account the factor of modern Western cluster munitions – they shamelessly mow down both fighters at the front (not only at the front) and civilian infrastructure in the rear.

Civil infrastructure is a separate topic. Recently, there was an arrival in Tokmak, which terribly slashed trucks and drivers. The Defense Ministry decided not to focus on this, because there was a risk of reciprocal publication of data from the enemy with arguments that the civilian targets were not quite simple and not very civilian.

But there were comrades in the camp of military correspondents who unleashed their anger towards the vile NATO members on the heads of readers, and attached videos as proof. This is something the enemy might not have had. And now the enemy can quite boldly show that the goals were legal from a military point of view. And all by our hands…

We had to throw all our efforts into blocking the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine: to declare that we would not use such munitions, to tear apart the Europeans, who have cluster munitions banned. There was a chance. But they played us, we happily fell for it and declared that we had these clusters munitions, whole landfills of them, not just stockpiles.

Yes, we have many. You can search for photos. For the most part, it’s an illiquid asset killed by time, the rest – is morally and technically obsolete. And things are not very good with carriers either.

Now you can’t roll back the situation, and when you are caught being weak, it’s silly to try and scare them. The General Staff already understands this, but they cannot bring the situation even higher, there is no solution. The guys on the front line are taking the beating, and it’s not easy at all. In the context of problems with medicine, wounds from cluster munitions often result in death, and this is a very painful and terrible death. The enemy has learned (yes, imagine, they are also learning!) to cut off the path of reinforcements or withdrawal of forces with artillery, and trenches do not save from cluster munitions. You can’t save yourself with a bandage or a tourniquet, after being hit with cluster munitions you need solid medical care, if you managed to survive.

In the trenches, a terrible mess is formed from the living and the dying, who are sometimes completely impossible to help.

In such cases, the enemy methodically waits for those of our forces that rush to help their comrades. I saw all this in Chechnya, when a sniper left a wounded man to pull other guys to him. This happened in single occasions, but with cluster munitions, everything is the same, but scaled tens and hundreds of times. We need counter-battery fire, but it is not there. We need a lot of things, but first of all, need to finally admit the problem exists and start solving it, and not throw around the words like “we’re going to smash you!”.

It is not some colonel in a hospital bed that is yelling about the cluster munitioins – the voices of hundreds of guys dying in terrible agony in the trenches and the widows of hundreds killed by them in just these couple of weeks are shouting to you about these problems. And I specifically do not specify whether there are really hundreds, or already thousands – we will not please the enemy with statistics.
The army needs a solution. The cluster situation is terrible, and worst of all, we try to silence the problem when we need a solution. And this is already beyond the capabilities of individual generals and commanders. We made threats with words, now let’s get down to business.”

The Russians have gone with something akin to an old fashioned leaflet drop:

Some translation:

"Do not exchange your life for American values."

"The West has turned Ukraine into a testing ground for its weapons."

""Merchant of Ukrainian lives"

And then it lists instructions on how to surrender

— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) August 17, 2023

The cost:

The childhoods of millions of Ukrainian children ended on February 24, 2022. We are fighting – and will win – this war to return smiles to our children’s faces. We will make sure they have a home, a childhood, and a future.

Art by @ShapovalYura pic.twitter.com/KaF5nIMXGa

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) August 17, 2023

The Kyiv Independent brings us details of even more of the costs of Russia’s genocidal re-invasion on Ukraine’s children:

Russia has deported another 450 children from areas of Ukraine under Russian occupation, the National Resistance Center reported on Aug. 17.

According to the center, 50 Ukrainian high school students were sent to Yaroslavl, a city about 250 kilometers northeast of Moscow. The center believes that once there, Russian teachers will try to convince the students to continue their higher education at Yaroslavl State University.

Another 200 children from occupied parts of Luhansk Oblast, 150 children from Kherson Oblast, and 50 children from Zaporizhzhia Oblast were sent to summer camps in Krasnodar region.

Ukrainian children are taught to believe Russian propaganda in these camps and attend activities like Russian patriotic concerts. At the end of the camp, Ukrainian children are often not returned home.

The conditions in Russian hotels, summer camps, and recreation centers for Ukrainian children are frequently poor, according to a report by a coalition of Ukrainian NGOs that documents Russia’s war crimes.

A February 2023 study by the Yale School of Public Health shows that Moscow has established a whole “network of re-education and adoption facilities” in Russia and occupied Crimea.

More than 19,500 children have been identified by the Ukrainian government as having been deported. Only 385 of them have been returned to Ukraine.

Much more at the link!

Here is there video reporting:

That’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron!

New episode 🥰🦋✌🏻https://t.co/3he5ZdED7L
(Enable ENG subtitles) pic.twitter.com/O4mJKM6CPB

— Patron (@PatronDsns) August 17, 2023

That’s right, there’s a new episode of Patron’s cartoon!

And a new video from Patron’s official TikTok!

@patron__dsns

Таке в архівах знайшов! Біжу побажати вам гарного і мирного дня🤗❤️

♬ оригинальный звук – dashiiirak

Here is the machine translation of the caption:

I found this in the archives! I want to wish you a good and peaceful day 🤗❤️

Open thread!

 

War for Ukraine Day 540: All of Ukraine Was Under Raid Alert TonightPost + Comments (33)

Stupid AI Tricks

by Tom Levenson|  August 17, 20236:28 pm| 110 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Technology

I’m feeling a little better about the threat to my writing business posed by LLMs:

Late last week, MSN.com’s Microsoft Travel section posted an AI-generated article about the “cannot miss” attractions of Ottawa that includes the Ottawa Food Bank, a real charitable organization that feeds struggling families. In its recommendation text, Microsoft’s AI model wrote, “Consider going into it on an empty stomach.”

Stupid AI Tricks

…the article extols the virtues of the Canadian city and recommends attending the Winterlude festival (which only takes place in February), visiting an Ottawa Senators game, and skating in “The World’s Largest Naturallyfrozen Ice Rink” (sic). [Links in the original]

More seriously, I read an interesting analysis suggesting that the AI craze, at least as an economic proposition, is very possibly as much bubble as boom.  Writing in his Substack, Gary Marcus sees a lot more techno optimism (or outright huckster-hype) than an actual path to the revolutionary impact AI boosters have told us is just about within our grasp:

Everybody in industry would probably like you to believe that AGI is imminent. It stokes their narrative of inevitability, and it drives their stock prices and startup valuations. Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, recently projected that we will have AGI in 2-3 years. Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind has also made projections of near-term AGI.

I seriously doubt it. We have not one, but many, serious, unsolved problems at the core of generative AI — ranging from their tendency to confabulate (hallucinate) false information, to their inability to reliably interface with external tools like Wolfram Alpha, to the instability from month to month (which makes them poor candidates for engineering use in larger systems). [Links in the original]

My biases make me hope so, which means I don’t trust my assent to Marcus’s argument. But even (trying to) allow for that thumb on the scale, it doesn’t seem implausible that the impact of LLMs and related AI approaches might be much more an incremental advance in the automation of various tasks (maybe even a big increment) and not the everything-is-different kind of transformations like the chemical-energy and (original) computational ones.

Over to you.  I’m off to grab my Michelin starred grocery bag from the food bank.

This thread is as open as Boston Common.

Image: Jan Steen, The Fat Kitchen, between c. 1665 and c. 1670

 

Stupid AI TricksPost + Comments (110)

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